and harkening back to the overtime session we just had, broadcom up by 2% now bucking that software trend, adobe and oracle set. >> they knew it was your birthday and wanted to give you green on happy birthday. >> "fast money" starts now. live from the nasdaq market site in the heart of new york city's times square, this is "fast money." here's what's on tap tonight. unstoppable apple. shares just keep going up, despite lackluster iphone sales, less than stellar reviews for its a.i. offering and continuing concerns about china. what is behind this record run, and what does it say about the market we are in? plus, trump's crypto boast. he wants the u.s. to be the leader in the digital currency space. how his administration's embrace will impact bitcoin and beyond. breaking down servicetitan's big first day as a public

company. and giddy up. why horse racing could be ready to rebound after decades on the decline. i'm melissa lee, coming to you live from studio b at the nasdaq. on the desk tonight -- karen finerman, dan nathan, and guy adammy. >> just three? >> yeah, pressure's on. we start with the latest record close on apple. shares up 10% in just the last month, and a whopping 51% from april lows. the stock closing with a market cap just a stone's throw away from $4 trillion. that is more than the entire gdp of the united kingdom. this year's rally coming even as the tech giant's efforts in the a.i. space fail to impress. users poking fun of apple intelligence's sometimes bizarre capabilities. like making poop hair on a face. >> yes. dan will tell you all about it. apple is struggling in its partnership with baidu to bring a.i. to its devices there. so, with the rally going strong, in spite of these concerns, has

apple become the ultimate defensive play? does this just tell us the tale of the market where momentum is the word of the day, guy? >> i think you hit the nail on the held. you try to figure out why this is happening. i don't think it's happening for fundamental reason. the market's been doing fine, so, you try to figure out what's going on below the surface. a couple things, i think. semis have underperformed since julyish, if you look at the chart. qualcomm, micron, names that we talk about all the time. really have traded poorly. amd thrown in the mix. so, in some ways it's been a rotation out of semis. and the other is, apple's in 400 etf, of which it's one of the top 15 holdings. as money flow goes, apple wins regardless of what they're saying. it's just a money flow thing, as well. so, i get it. it's getting more expensive, not cheaper. >> so, we used to talk about the cash, we used to talk about their buy-back, their dividend. they're like rounding errors right now. it's like 4% of the market cap

net of their debt. it's like minuscule, right? and then their buy-backs. remember that day earlier this year, they announced a $110 million buy-back and the stock rallied? think about that. it has no impact anymore so, you look at the stock right there you that whole part, when they announced that buy-back, until five years ago, that was a real will important part of the story. you started off saying defense -- well, here's the problem, 50% of sales com from iphone. they're not growing. the services thing, the a.i. -- this is the next leg of growth, to justify the multiple where it's trading at. there's no there there. so, i've never been so right about one thing and so wrong about the other. the right thing was june 10th when they had their wwdc. it looked very obvious to me what was going on there. it was a fugazi. and everything since then has been a joke. except the stock has rallied 30% since june 10th. that's the wrong part right there. sometimes it just -- both things can be true.

>> both things can be true. >> right karen? >> i think the uy-back thing is actually not accretive now, but it's interesting. i mean, i own a little, and i've been sort of surprised with how strong it is. i don't really get this -- little bit today, but this valuation here, it's not super crazy, but if you, you know, we always talk about looking at the hardware and the software part, we knew the multiple, the contribution of each is changing towards services which is much more profitable in -- and recurring, but you think the china issues would effect them a lot. on the other hand, tim cook has been very adept at, you know, -- >> cozying up to xi jinping? >> yes, that would be one way to say it, and that would be right. it's worked for him. but i think -- i don't know. it's just sort of in the meltup, there are other things i like much better, like a meta, you know, just valuation-wise, much

rather be there. >> that's what's interesting. with the meta story, it underscores this notion that a.i. can -- the affects can be seen. we can actually see them right now. the impact on its business, the impact on what it sells, ads, et cetera, and with apple, we don't have that impact, and yet, it did levitate from that june date on the a.i. hopes. and here we are. what are they? it's gen-mojis, such rising notes, image generation. >> gene munster comes on and talks about that and the hope. listen, gene's going to wind up being right. he came on on that same day, june 10th, he said it was transformational, one of the biggest events in the history of the company. he got it right in terms of the stock. but in terms of a.i., and we talked about it on this show, there are two companies that are clearly winning in the a.i. world, in terms of making and monetizing it, it's walmart, you see it in earnings releases the last two times, and it's

facebook. and they're being rewarded for it in terms of the stock price and the valuation. apple's being rewarded for something they're not monetizing yet, and quite frankly, might have trouble doing over the next year, year and a half. >> you guys may find this interesting. i'm going to try to pick apart some of big names, with the investments they've made in a.i. let's leave nvidia out of it, that's deserved, even if you think the percentage gains are now. let's look at meta. they are totally reliant on ios devices for people to use them. for the most part. here in america. they will not be in china, okay? because they don't make it past the firewall. amazon. they don't own -- they're building a model, right, for all intents and purposes, but they have a very competitive landscape as it relates to their aws business. they are leasing, basically, for all intents and purposes, anthropic's model. microsoft, it looks like this is kind of a dud, this licensing of

openai, they haven't been able to do a great job -- >> co-pilot. >> it's a big meh, as you guys say. and they're not getting a lot of uptake as it relates to enterprise. there are things -- oh, google, you know, google, this is a bit of a train wreck. i think it's better than apple intelligence, but again, i think there's things to pick at, in the different sort of environment, like -- i'm not sure that these are the ones that get going in 2025 that -- the stories that to broaden out. >> why is not being in china a headwind for meta? >> well, how many people? >> right, but that's been the way -- >> why -- i know, too. >> you know what i mean? i've been there a couple of times. there's a lot of people there. >> but they're doing just fine -- >> can i tell you why? they have 3 billion people -- you take a billion and a half out of china and that's -- >> they werer in in china. >> there's nothing in the valuation for china. >> there's nothing priced in, which is the right price. somewhere i understand. but what i'm saying, at some

point, they're only going to be able to get so many people on the planet to use their services. like, that's a pretty good market you'd want to be in. >> i think they're looking to monetize the services more broadly, not necessarily, i mean, more people you have, the better, but -- >> i mean -- >> spend more, which is what happens. >> the best story right now, in my opinion, for a whole host of reasons. they are squarely -- i have the meta wayfair, these glasses, have you seen these things? >> yes. >> they are amazing. >> you're admitting to it? >> zuckerberg gave donald trump a preview at mar-a-lago. >> did he? >> and he gave him the ray bans. >> bless you. >> they're amazing. >> i mean -- >> what? last words here. >> no, no last words. there are too many words. you see these people -- dan's one of them walking around with the glasses, talking to themselves, and hitting the button on the side to take a picture of you. that's creepy as you know what. >> i love it.

ten-year yields hitting the highest since november 25. that combined with more people filing for unemployment benefits raised fears over economic growth ahead of next week's fed meeting. karen, you said before you were surprised the ten-year didn't move more on this. >> yeah, i would have thought -- i mean, we've got ppi, so, that's inflation, but then we have the potential for tremendous growth and, you know, more deficits and all of that. i mean -- that's why i get to the idea that the fed will not be cutting dramatically in 2025. >> uh-huh. >> i don't know why they need to, especially in the economy is doing okay. >> karen's done a great job with this, by the way. i'm one of the very few people, i think, that the tlt is going back to levels we saw -- well, october of last year, which, about 82 1/2, which gets you to about somewhere between .85% to 5% in the ten-year. i think yields are going higher for a myriad of deferent iffere

reasons. paul tutor jones, stan druckenmiller, for example. all the issuances that are coming forth in the first quarter of next year, something's got to give. there's not going to be failed auctions, but the market is going to demand higher. >> the dollar is -- looks like it wants to break out, a range that it's been in for a couple of years. so, all of these things, you were challenging my headwinds to the tech story, these seem like headwinds to the economy -- >> just to meta. >> just to meta. >> and a little meh action, as you would call it. >> all right. for more on rates, we're joined by stephen whiting, chief economist. the firm just unveiled its investment outlook. >> thank you for having me. >> looking for growth in 2025 and 2026, but even with that backdrop, you think investors are too concentrated in their portfolios? >> well, look. i mean, step back, this isn't "fast money" stuff, but when you think about three american

companies, all of the companies in asia, all the companies in europe, it isn't even a pe issue. we have rapid growth in our tech companies, multiples are going down from 50 to 30. there's been a lot of good fortune here. you think about large cap u.s. stocks, with a 13% return for a decade, right? so, what we see is just the opportunity elsewhere, small and mid-cap american companies, growth companies, have had a decline in valuation in the last ten years. compared to where we were when donald trump was first elected, in u.s. dollar terms, non-u.s. assets are 40% cheaper in forward-looking valuations. it dun mean that they're going to come alive and just jump really, really sharply. we went into this election 6% overweight u.s. equities. we have to start thinking about more diversification, some opportunity in cheaper assets for the next ten years. >> how do you think about the run we've seen since the election? is this sort of policy hopes and

dreams pull forward? >> it's a lot like when the -- donald trump was first elected. we saw the dollar rise through the end of the year quite discreetly. there probably is less room for significant fiscal easing. there's a smaller majority in the house, we have tax hikes coming, unless we do otherwise. i think there's legitimate hope for deregulation. energy and power infrastructure, financials, banks, a lot of headwinds can disappear. but a lot of this gets priced discreetly, just over a period of time, and, you know, then we move onto other more lasting sources of growth. >> so, let me ask you something, and i'm playing devil's advocate a little, because i'm long iwm. but what about this phenomenon that has nothing to do with valuation, but everything to do about flow of funds into the market, into bigger, more lick wild. do you see that changing at all? >> so, i think eps itself, again, turning onnal brdette of profits, that's better.

2025 estimates for small and mid-cap look a lot better, if they can actually execute on it. i think you'll see performance follow those games in eps. so far, we've had a really narrow economy. especially looking back in the last 12 months. there were a lot of gains for a.i. infrastructure. but if we look at 12 months ago, half of industries had eps declines, so, quite narrow market. i think again, we can get back from that and corporate profits generally haven't looked as good as the lay more bor market. >> number two on the 2025 top six is medical devices, which has been out of favor now for awhile, probably in the back of glp -- a number of different things. speak to that, because i really like that. >> 9% historic dividend growth, 14 pe multiples. again, it probably -- important for stock picking in terms of actual dispersion. but if you think about the two industries of what the economy is becoming, technology and health care is what the economy is becoming. we have a lot of confidence in

future profits priced into tech. very little confidence priced into health care. and so, basically health care's quite cheap. it looks a lot like the tech recovery from 2022. >> all right, stephen, thank you for stopping by. >> my pleasure. >> medical devices, that is interesting, especially when you think about the medical loss ratios and the insurers are high because utilization rates are so high. you have to think the devices are going in somewhere. >> medtronic is a name that comes to mind, right off the top. i mean, just valuation alone, this becomes compelling. and these stocks have just been beaten up on what's been a great tape. for a number of different reasons. some of which are justified. some not so much. so, i love that call in 2025. >> yeah, it's interesting. xlv, if we can pull a chart up, maybe a five-year. for 2021, 2022, 2023, it was in a tight range. it broke out, looked like one of the best-looking charts, one of the best stories, and now it's down and looks horrible. so, when you think about, how does the market broaden out,

where does the leadership come from? we know the sectors don't make up enough on their own to kind of power gains, but i think that's the story. how can you put a couple narratives together, and how can this leadership broaden out if the gen a.i. trade took a breather. >> how do you think about elevance? >> can i just address xlv for a second? what is the h in my helm trade. >> hmm. >> xlv. >> played that game correctly. >> why does -- >> health care. >> she gets a pass on that? >> xlv, health care. >> great game, by the way, that we play every year. >> to your elevance question, i mean, i think, maybe to xlv more broadly, for each -- for both potential administrations, and now trump administrations, here is a great target, right, by bipartisan support for, you know, caps on prices, or some sort of pricing mechanism that isn't as good, and certainly for elevance, which does have their

pbm, pharmacy benefits, that's been weighing on it, as well as a couple of other things. i haven't done a good job on this one. >> you still have it? >> yes. right. by definition. we've got an earnings alert on broadcom. the chip maker right now is higher by 4% in the afterhours after its fourth quarter results. the chip maker missing revenue expectations, beating earnings per share. the conference call just kicked off. seema mody has the numbers. seema? >> melissa, broadcom's bet on artificial intelligence seems to be paying off, with 2024 a.i. revenue growing 220% year over year. ceo on the call just now saying that he sees the momentum continuing, touting its a.i. revenue growth, which was driven by xpu accelerators and networking. on the non-a.i. business side, broadband will bottom and the recovery will start in the first quarter. it also closed at $69 billion acquisition of vm ware and integration is complete, he

says, with a number of new enterprise clients. the company is raising its dividend by 11%. and we've been watching shares of broadcom outperform the chip sector this year. stock up over 69% as it parts with the likes of openai, amazon, meta, to help each of them build their own kus mized a.i. chip. we'll see if it's working with apple to design its own a.i. chip. right now, shares of broadcom up over 4% in afterhours. >> all right, seema, thank you. seema mody. and of course, there's the headline today that apple is working to replace broadcom when it comes to having its own in-house chip for wifi and bluetooth, so -- ending the relationship in some instances, building up a new one, potentially, in others. >> that might not be a bad thing for broadcom, quite frankly, but that's another conversation. you look at the quarter, 62.7% operating margins for this company. slight miss on -- really slight miss on revenue. beat on eps. and the first quarter guide was fine.

and 29 times next year's numbers-ish. i think this is still going higher. you get through 186, a level we've had trouble with and i think you're in a whole new range on the upside. >> your point about the wifi and the bluetooth chips, that's something they're going to design generative a.i. chips, so maybe that offsets it. apple is a huge customer, 17% of broadcom. and, you know, this thing is acting very contrary to many of the other names attached. telling a story about generative a.i. last week, a huge rally. gapped up 25% to new all-thyme highs. coming up, costco and rh on the move after reporting results. the numbers from the quarter next. and a big debut for servicetitan. surging in its nasdaq debut. that'strgh sait ahead. don't go anywhere. "fast money" is back in two.

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5.2% in the quarter, and e-commerce shot up by 13% year ore year. membership fees came in higher than wall street expected, totaling $1.17 billion, compared to the $1.16 billion that analysts expected. they hiked their annual fee in september, the first increase in seven years, but the cfo on the cheap's earnings call said that that actually did not have an effect on the quarter. he said it didn't have much on an impact yet, because of deferred accounting, and represented less than 1% of that fee growth in the quarter. on the company's earnings call, he called our a few areas of growth. gold and jewely, jewelry, heal beauty aids, and luggage were all up double digits. so, a sense of what people are buying this holiday season. back to you. >> that's a lot of categories. >> yes. >> melissa, thank you. melissa repko. remember when they were selling platinum, gold -- >> yeah. >> silver, and they were selling out.

>> people buying the luggage to put the gold bars in to get them out. you think i'm kidding around. >> the gold is this big. >> i know, i'm kidding. >> it's heavy, though. >> that's true. but we were talking about costco. costco, all-time high yesterday. >> yeah. >> so, really performing. the valuation could be perceived as rich, but they are executing. >> i mean, in isolation, in a vacuum, that is a fantastic quarter versus other retailers, right, up 5.2%. but to your point, 55-plus times -- >> right. >> that's not good enough. >> walmart's at 35. >> yeah. >> and target's at 14. i mean, clearly they are different animals, completely, but -- so, this makes me feel a little bit better that i don't own it, that it's down $2, $3. >> a quarter of a percent. go karen! >> you know, you take the wins where you can get them. >> say what you want, though, i mean, razor thin margins, so, when they beat by the margins they did -- so, for example, operating margin was 3.53%.

doesn't sound like a big deal. for them, it's a big deal. street was looking for less than 3.3. so, they're operating better. and maybe in the world of a.i., they'll operate even better -- >> betterer. >> betterer. >> more better. >> so, i get the valuation concerns, but as karen will tell you, i mean, there have been valuation concerns for the last five years the entire way up about costco. shares of rh soaring on a big guidance raise. the company seeing revenue growth between 18% and 20% for the fourth quarter compared to a 7% estimateestimate. it's a big pop here. you asked, was there short interest here, 12% of shares outstanding. >> a little bit. but this was pretty good. they talked about strength, was in november, good strength there, so, that gives them the guidance. i think -- imagine what will happen when people buy new homes again, when existing homes come out of, you know, the mortgage

rate block, but -- this is pretty impressive. however, that having been said, still, i think, too expensive. >> yeah. they also said on the conference call, apparently, that their margins would not be impacted by tariffs, which is a positive. >> big deal. >> that's important. >> this was, again, not that it atters, this was a $700 stock in 2021 that just absolutely cratered like a lot of other things. so, the move now, basically, gets us to a 50% retracement of that prior high, and the lows we've been trading at for the last, i don't know, year and a half or so, two years you it's going to trade north of 10 million shares of tomorrow. i think you have to let it breathe. it will sift back in for you. there's a lot more "fast money" to come. here's what's coming up next. >> the newest kid on the block? servicetitan, making a splash in its ipo. the details from its first trading day, and why the company priced well below its range. plus, bitcoin hovering near 100k, and our next guest says the rally is just beginning.

where he s crypto prices heading, and what president-elect trump is saying about the space. you're watching "fast money," live from the nasdaq market site in times square. we're back right after this. (♪♪) (♪♪) (♪♪) everyone has goals and dreams.

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welcome back to "fast money." stocks pulling back a built after this morning's hotter than expected inflation data. the dow falling 234 points. shares of warner brothers discovery jumping more than 15%. the company announcing a restructuring plan to segment its business into linear and streaming units in a move that could simplify future consolidation. this just weeks after comcast announced it would spin off its cable networks. servicetitan makes its debut on the nasdaq today. it closed exactly where it opened, $101 a share. leslie picker has all the details. les? >> it's always weird when it does that, closes exactly where it hopes, but servicetitan really seen as a bellwether for the tech ipo market. plumbers and roofers and landscapers use this.

it popped in its debut today. now, a lesser told story is that servicetitan didn't actually have much of a choice. it had to go public. when the company raised private capital back in 2022, it agreed to a provision called a compounding rachet. this means the company will need to issue more shares to make whole the venture investors if an event such as an ipo or sale comes in below the valuation they paid in the prior round. and the compounding element, which is very, very unique, makes it more dilutive for the company the longer it waits to go public. in this case, service titan pricing at $71 when it did today, was -- or yesterday, technically, trading today, was indeed lower than the prior round. the overall delusion is just about 1%, according to estimates. now, ironically, if the ipo were priced at the levels that it opened at closed at today, $101

per share, the compounding rachet would be irrelevant, but this type of structure and the prospect of doing a down round has kept many ipo candidates on the sidelines for a few years now, so, we'll see if the moves today with service titan really changes the psychology. >> karen's got a question. >> hi, leslie. so, on -- today is day one. who were the -- were insiders selling? who was selling and when will lockups go -- expire and they'll be able to sell? >> that's a good point. so, the venture investors in the prior round included a bunch of late stage folks that you normally expect to see, ppg was a participant in the prior round. and then hay had a whole host of other venture or kind of crossover investors in the prior rounds before that. typically, these lockups tend to last about six months. i'm fairly positive this one is standard in terms of its lockup provisions, but it's a good point you mentioned, because oftentimes, when you see the lockups expire, you see some

more insiders selling and that can put pressure on the stock. those days are always really, really important to keep an eye out for. >> all right, leslie, thank you. leslie picker. this is one that really interested you guys on the 12:30 conference call. >> right. we've been talking about as it relates to investment banks what the backlog looks for, m&a, ipos coming in 2025. if you talk to vcs, maybe they're wish casting, because they need exits, but the bankers are super excited, too, because it's been so bad for the last couple deals. so, this is great. it was a downround, but it's fine. i guess the one issue i have, leslie just mentioned this crossover investor. these are the natural buyers of these deals on ipos. well, they've been participating the whole time in these growth rounds, and so, you start to wonder, who are the incremental buyers? these companies have to start telling a really good story to retail investors to get their interest, because a lot of the natural buyers don't really exist that much anymore. >> yeah, no, i mean, i think it's expensive. feels like this is great for

them, great price, actually saw them ringing the closing bell today as i was walking in. but when it really starts trading sort of freely, then i think maybe it's a different story. >> really dependent on the housing market. you see restoration hardware, you get enthusiastic. look at the home builders over the last week or so on the downside, so, i think you tread lightly here. >> coming up, make crypto great again. president-elect trump waking in on the digital asset as bitcoin hovers around $100,000. what he told jim cramer this morning, and why our next guest says we are still early in this crypto rally. "fast money" is back in two. missed a moment of "fast?" catch us any time on the go. follow the "fast money" podcast. we're back right after this. in any business, you ride the line between numbers and people. what's right for the business and what's best for everyone who depends on it.

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we're going to do something great with crypto, because we don't want china or anybody else, not just china, but others are embracing it, and we want to be the head. >> that was president-elect donald trump speaking to jim cramer earlier today about putting the u.s. at the forefront of crypto. bitcoin hovering around that $100,000 mark today. but our next guest says 2025 could be a big year for bit koip and stable coins.

he launched the first bitcoin. dan morhead is here. this is a great year for crypto. next year is going to be even better, and on what? because a lot of this year feels like pull forward of the expectation that something will happen in the regulatory environment that will be very beneficial for bitcoin and crypto in general, and we dooechbt know what that is? >> yeah, i think that's what it was, the uncertainty were holding investors back. and in 2025, you're going to get much more clear regulations, and that will allow institutions to come into the space. and presently, most institutions really have almost zero exposure to block chain. >> this fund you run is an institutional fund, correct? >> yes. >> so, what kind of conversations are you having now to segue into that time? >> oh, it's really changed since the election. last summer, when the markets were very low, and we had very

little interest and since the election, so many people are trying to get -- figure out how to get exposure to the space. >> when you hear a microsoft, i think michael sailer just pitched the whole bitcoin strategy of microstrategy to microsoft, they passed. i think they might have passed in a prior lifetime, but they passed recently. thoughts on that, that, you know, he's obviously pushing that, but a lot of people are sort of backing away. is there another company that has to come in to sort of galvanize what michael's done? >> he's done a great job raising awareness, but probably most big corporations are not going to have bitcoin on their balance sheet. just like they don't have yen or bonds or, you know, gold or whatever. but big institutions, insurance companies, pension plans, endowments, they're the ones that are going to come in and push the market up. >> so, what's preventing them right now, those big institutions? i mean, some of them, i think, there seems to be nothing preventing them, but what are some of the regulations that would be lifted that would allow that to happen? >> well, it's been very unclear

what is a security and what is not a security. the regulators in the u.s. are pursuing lawsuits against some of the bigger companies in the space. so, that gives institutions pause. if that gets cleared up, you could imagine institutions wanting to get access to a new asset class. this is very similar to commodities in the '80s, emerging markets in the '90s. it's just a new asset class, most people don't have exposure yet. >> dan, people keep talking about regulation, more clarity and the like here. how much of this move has to do with, and trump had been saying this on the campaign trail, the idea of some sort of bitcoin reserve, for the country. and, you know, is that a big part of this? obviously, there's a lot of moving parts here. what are you most excited about this? >> i think that is actually a really important thing. when you're the reserve currency of the world, don't have somebody else's currency to seay it, so, the united states doesn't have another currency. it stores $600 billion in gold, which is a staggering amount,

it's equivalent to 11 million years of american worker wages. so, that's kind of crazy. go to digital gold, bitcoin. it's much better. and so, i think it's totally rational. the u.s. owns 1% of the world's bitcoins. keep that, increase that, so, i do think it's -- it is actually a really good policy. there are a couple of countries that already own bitcoin. it would be great for the u.s. to get out in the lead. >> how do you manage the portfolio in terms of, you know, you have outsized positions now just because of the run, so, where would you -- where are you trimming, where have you trimmed? and what are some of the more undervalued cryptos out there? >> yeah, so, the fun bit about crypto, we've been doing this for 11 years and bitcoin is a little bit more than doubled this year, so, everyone's talking about, isn't that wild it doubled? on average, it's done that for 11 years in a row. so, crypto going up double is not remarkable, actually. so, we're normally long, because the markets are going to go up, you know, another huge amount, like, another order of

magnitude, possibly. so, we're typically long. we're looking at which other tokens are interesting. we have position in telegram's token, solana. >> dan, great to see you. dan morehead of pantera. >> say what you want, michael is very transparent on what he's doing. he's been this sort of -- i don't know, sherpa for the community. and he's don an extraordinary job, but dan is son pot on. there's going to be acceptance in the space. >> yeah, it's interesting, when you think about bitcoin, one of the knocks on it, it doesn't do anything, it doesn't create anything. over the last ten years, it's up 30,000%. you know what else is up 30,000%? nvidia, which has nearly double the market cap and we know what's going on there. so, it's hard to compare these risk assets, like, you have to think of it, i guess the way dan's talking about it, actually as a reserve currency or some asymmetric bet. it can only go to zero, but on

the flip side, go to infinity. terms pharmaceutical's small molecule drug helped patients lose 5% of their body weight in 28 days. but not all about weight loss. they are planning to advance its leukemia drug in trial next year after giving positive data earlier this month. for more, let's bring in n's ceo. >> thank you for having me. >> so, the obesity drug, how does it fit into sort of the landscape here? we've got a lot of, you know, candidates out there, oral candidates, including ones by novo as well as eli lilly. how does yours fit in, and why could this be best in class? which is what you said in the press release. >> yeah, thank you, melissa. so, i know you know a lot about this space. we don't yet have an oral approved therapy, and we also have seen a lot of data from orals to say that we can see effective weight loss.

we don't yet have that ideal drug where you see really good tolerability along with that weight loss, something that's very scaleable from a manufacturing standpoint. and available. i've also heard you talk about, you know, different patient segments in this market, different therapies could be appropriate for them. so, we don't think there's going to be one winner in the oral glp-1 race. >> do you see -- do you see your oral drug being more of a maintenance drug as opposed to the drug that you're on to lose that initial, you know, big portion of the body weight that needs to be lost? >> yeah, you know, i think people are talking about that in general for orals, and it's going to depend on the patient and the needs. >> okay. talk to us about the phase two. is it on track to start in 2025? when can we expect a readout? >> yeah, it's on track to start by early q-2. and we'll see a readout before the end of the year. >> okay. you know, last week, we had some stunk news from an ipo in the

space, bio age, which halted its phase two, and i know this is not -- doesn't relate to you, but in terms of investors looking at bio tech companies, developing drugs, early stages, they see the collapse and they think, why not just go to a lilly or novo, because you can see what happens when a drug is halted in a, you know, a trial phase. what can you tell investors? >> i'm sorry, can you clarify the question, what do you mean, go to lilly where you can see what happens? >> well, lilly's drugs are a little bit farther out in terms of development, they've got a drug that's already approved and on the market, where a smaller company is in clinical trials right now, and you can see what happens when a phase has to be halted, because the end points are not met, whatever reason. what can you tell investors about the risk? because you see a collapse in a company that is also working on an obesity drug in phase two, and i'm sure -- >> yeah. >> i'm sure people are getting

cold feet. >> yeah, i have a lot of respect for my colleagues at bio age. it's sad to say. i would say earlier stage drug development is inherently riskier, if you look at the statistics, but we also know that a lot of drugs, big classes like statins and others, the first to market is not necessarily the best or the winner. so, there's a lot to be gained in investing in molecules that maybe earlier in the pipeline have the potential to be better. >> amy, i think you have $380 million cash or cash equivalence. what kind of runway does that give you? we understand this business is extraordinarily capital intensive. >> it is. it's still very different if you are developing a gene therapy or biologic, so, that cash gets us into 2028 and into some pretty meaningful milestone readouts on our leukemia drug, readouts on our obesity portfolio. >> all right, amy, thank you for your time. we do appreciate it. >> thank you so much, melissa. >> amy burrows.

and she mentioned ed leukemia d. you need the money to fund all the different trials. >> and they have it through 2028. and the market cap is probably either side of half a billion dollars, so, we'll trade lightly with this one, but it's one of these fascinating stories. there was a company years ago, very small microcap company that was subsequently bought for, like, 100x of what they went public at. so, this could be one of those types of situations. coming up, betting on the ponies. why horse racing could see a huge reer is jens thanks to sports gambling. and why the return of one famous trainer could help fuel the run down the stretch. more "fast money" in two.

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he won with a 2-year-old horse, barnes, which incidentally, cost $3.2 million as a yearling. i sat down with the hall of fame trainer a couple of days ago in tucson, and i asked him about starting this new chapter. >> we went through some challenging times, and we got through it, and it's so nice to have all that in the rearview mirror, behind me, and i can focus on what's going ahead, and it's going to be -- it's going to be -- i'm having fun -- i'm having fun again. >> do you think there's any sustained damage to the baffert brand? >> i think people in horse racing, they understand what went on, and it's -- it's one of those things where you just got to put it behind you. >> baffert was speaking at the university of arizona racing symposium, his alma mater. and the persistent topic that i heard there, where is this sport going? there's been decades of declining horses, owners,

trainers. and baffert thinks there needs to be more high profile events like the kentucky derby. >> it's getting bigger, the handle, they're betting more, people show up, and why? because it's -- it's an instagram moment for everybody. everybody goes, they're taking their same -- i'm here at the biggest party, it's a bucket list race, it's getting bigger and bigger. >> baffert's not the only one focused on the next opportunity. i talked with todd pletcher, donna barton brothers, the nbc racing analyst, who talked about the importance of sportsbooks, because gambling funds the purses, and widespread sports betting is bringing in all these new fans. and you guys know danny moses, a friend to "fast money," of big short fame, he ounces horses in starlight racing, and he and founder jack wolf were out there in tucson and i heard a lot of talk about gate races to host 4-year-old horses, expand their careers, and this is where investors would own the racing

positions themselves, or the slots. they can buy it, they can sell it, they can trade them. and so it makes the actual race sort of more of a wagering game, if you would, like, where are you going to get your return on investment for these positions? there's a lot of innovation that is possible in horse racing, but it's not quite there yet. the next big thing, i think, is what everybody's looking at to see whether they can make a resurgence. >> is the audience older? i mean, do we need to bring in younger people to watch? >> part of it, so the point, is, you have the kentucky derby, everybody loves it. you have the breeders cup, and then the other triple crown races, but baffert was like, look, it's kind of like baseball. you've got all of these games, you got to fill those stands. how do you do it? you need superstars. so, is it the horses -- >> the jockeys? >> the owners -- >> the jockeys. and maybe the owners and the trainers, but if you can get one more year of racing career for the horses, the horses

themselves could be the stars. >> well, contessa's a star, and check out churchill downs, look at the stock over the last decade. still cheap, despite the run. >> contessa, great to see you. >> thank you, melissa. >> contessa brewer. up next, final trades.

♪ in any business, you ride the line between numbers and people. what's right for the business

and what's best for everyone who dends on it. solving today's challenges while creating future opportunities. it takes balance. cla - cpas, consultants, and wealth advisors. we'll get you there. final trade time. karen? >> yes, a shoutout to my brother, mark finerman, happy birthday. and i still like the iwm. >> dan nathan? >> yeah, i kind of like this xlv. it's at four-year support at 140. >> interesting. guy? >> special final trade here. jack duffy in a hospital room at

northwestern. i know you are proud. feel better, on behalf of your friends here at cnbc's "fast money." >> may we say who the kid brother -- >> that would be terry duffy. >> one and only. thank you for watching "fast money." "mad money" with jim cramer starts right now.who the kid brother is? >> terry duffy. >> thanks for watching. . my mission is simple. to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere. i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now. i'm cramer. welcome. trying to make you money. my job is not just to entertain but explain what's going on. call me. tweet me.