welcome to power lunch with kelly evans, i'm brian

sullivan. great to be back with you on this fine show going forward. lots to do in the days, weeks and months ahead. stocks taking another turn lower but this after two very good years so the only question we answer now is where do we go from here? >> how much do we make of the one-day decline today, the lack of the santa claus rally. there's still time. energy and utilities are the only two s&p sectors in the green today. nasdaq moving around a lot amid the cold snap in u.s. and ukraine blocking shipments in europe. i don't have to tell you but these prices are up but they are nowhere near where they were a couple years ago. >> i have a feeling we will do more on that story coming up. speaking of, some rangers fans want me to watch their teams here in the new york area. blocked out is this kind of blockade coming to your town and team, next. >> how is it not? figure out who is their distribution and who is the package and where they are trying to go, the streaming world makes all of this complicated. >> there's a lot of fights. we are not being local, it's a

national, international television show. the question is, does the fight go to l.a. and chicago? we will talk about it. >> we've h blackouts already? >> the fight over money and the bill goes up a little bit and then we move on. >> we move onto something. let's start with the markets which are lower on this first full day of the new year. the question is if we could see a repeat for 2025 like we've just come off of 2024 and 2023. any disappointment or demand slowdown in nvidia and ai is the single biggest risk facing investors, is it not? >> i did say that. >> what is your beef? >> i just giggled at -- i'm happy to be here with you, what a wonderful -- >> it's too late now. >> i'm sorry. i did say -- >> nvidia is in the green today and it's big so we can take that. >> down 10%, eight or 10% for the high i'm not breaking any news by saying ai is the single

biggest risk. so many of those stocks are derivative of that story and if something were to happen there, obviously it's the biggest risk. it's like we like to talk about tariffs. but that's real. >> biggest risk is reits backing up because of more deficits, that kind of thing. >> i think they are wrong. especially barry knapp who i have great respect for. >> the man is not even here to defend himself. >> i'll call him later. yields are certainly a risk to markets. the last time we got up to 475, and of 2022 it was a big deal and nytime yields go up too quickly it's a big problem for equity markets and certainly an economic slowdown given the relationship between broader growth in the s&p 500 revenues, yada yada, also a bit of a risk but from my standpoint, again, so much of the work and it's not just nvidia and broad,, it's eaten and a number of

companies. those that have done so exceedingly well, all of those are derivatives of the same story. if something were to happen there i don't see how it's not -- >> is the risk that the rate is x or is the risk that the rate has gone up so fast and the reason why the rate has gone up? >> of course the reason it goes up is the biggest issue. if yields are going from four to have to go five or 5 1/2 to six because the u.s. economy explodes to some miracle and everything is going wonderful and fine, that's not a problem. if it goes for and have to go five and six because suddenly the government has 8 trillion in growth next year instead of 4 trillion or whatever the number is that's obviously a different risk. that said the inflation story from my standpoint, i know it's a big risk, the inflation story seems contained to me. contained at a level above the 2% target that the fed is going for but contained nonetheless.

if i'm an economist, i'm worried. 2 1/2 is not acceptable, three is not acceptable but as an investor i don't really care. 2 1/2 is stable, even three is fine if it stable there. and that's what we've seen over the last couple years. >> we did see a lot of movement there the past couple weeks and to your comment, 493, we give them some credit when we see the -- rising that's when we tend to see the -- perform. no one wants to own anything else. we've seen a little bit of relief. there's the chart. it hasn't gone down a lot yet so there is something in the market that is getting -- it doesn't like you 3% as much as you do. >> listen, the one caveat i will offer to the conversation is i think when we lump -- and i just did it so i'm partially to blame but when we lump everything in as the other, it misses that there are a ton of non-ai solutions playing up markets irrespective of what

the government is doing. the insurance stocks are doing well, industrials are doing well, some of those new energy stocks are doing well, i know we -- consumer -related names look at expedia and looking for instance. the cruise lines, the hotels. >> they have been doing incredible. >> we will do that tomorrow. what cities have done best for the stock markets, i think to kelly's point, what are we going to dunk on barry knapp? >> you made his point. >> we are at a point now -- here is all i worry about. it doesn't matter that the 493 are doing well. i agree, stupid name. everybody wants to talk about nvidia. kelly evans goes out at a restaurant she can't even have dinner with her 17 kids because guess what happens, everyone just wants to -- kelly. where is nvidia going? it's the taxidriver thesis and

that is what worries me. everybody is talking about the same five stocks over and over. >> the only pushback i have is i'm not sure nvidia is the one. maybe your reactions to minor or nonexistent but i'm not sure it's the one people care the most about. i think broad, is an interesting turning point. >> the new nvidia, brought a calm? >> it doesn't have to be those chips. >> that's totally fair but i think that's too nuanced. if we are talking about the taxidriver, the catchall, doesn't really care whether it's nvidia or broadcom, it's chips, it's gpu's, it's the story. you play that through nvidia, broadcom, is largely irrelevant. that is what is driving some of the other elements i mentioned. >> do you care that apple is down 3% and what do you can make of the fact that this company which -- was the best match had some of the most superlative stats in the

market. >> listen, apple is a powerhouse. obviously -- not obviously cash within the context of those names has some of the least impressive growth rates. although they are looking a little better now called low double digits, but does it worry you that it's down 3%? i mean, a friend of mine likes to say sometimes stocks go up, sometimes stocks go down. >> that friend is a genius, you should hang out with that friend more often. we are leading the show with that. it's not wrong. it's not wrong. sometimes they -- by the way, great year, sit tight, come up with more ways to dunk on barry now. let's blasted out to rick santelli in chicago with the latest read on the market and why i think you might agree, rick, that the federal reserve cut in september, just weirder and weirder and weirder at least to me. >> reporter: i don't disagree it looks weird but i don't know

if it's making a big difference. the longhand has a mind of its own and i think that is going to be the story from 2025. everybody is debating if rates go up it's going to be bad for stocks, there's been plenty of years where the longhand has gone upward, the curve has deepened and stocks loved it because it was underpinned by a strong and growing and expanding economy. now if it's about debt and deficits, that's a whole different story. listen, -- in the first administration, believe me, they are going to be all over debt and deficits that they've ignored for the last administration, it's going to be an ongoing probing story and the markets are going to pay attention. claims today were at the lowest level since april, but there's a huge asterisk there, the process doesn't work well during the holiday season. i would take 211,000 and maybe take it with a grain of salt in terms of what the markets did they definitely reversed tire after that as you see on twos and tens. the biggest story being overlooked today is this double top 30 year bonds right around

the closing yield of 4.81%. which, by the way, was the intraday high today in bonds. if you are a technician you are looking primarily at closing yields but it definitely had an effect today and finally the eurodollar is roughly what, 57.6% of the dollar index so this is kind of a funny chart, of course a mirror image but it really drives the point home, the euro currency and the dollar index are both extremes going back for 26 months. if there's a big story today, it's at the dollar jumps into 2025. kelly, brian, by the way, it's great to see you on the show, brian, welcome back to you. >> thank you. appreciate that. double top potentially in the third year, again, do people trade bonds? probably not. >> let's hope it's a double top and not something that's about to break out.

double bottom? >> the pressure on yields in 2025 is probably roughly the same as the pressure on yields in 2024 with the added uncertainties surrounding tax. i will add i've made the case on the network numerous times i don't think -- are as detrimental as many other people, i think there are offsetting factors that can be applied that are not considered that includes strength of the currency and any additional pressure that might occur on oil prices particularly of the incoming administration put some pressure on the middle east, particularly the saudi's to increase output, so there are things this year that make it more difficult to simply say, tariffs are coming and inflation is going to like. >> congress might have something to say. >> congress has something to say -- >> presidential candidates can see what they like and they do. they say a lot of things. what actually occurs is often up to the 535 women and men in d.c. >> except congress has spent the better part of the last 30

years ceding their authority on tariffs to the executive branch. >> residents have taken the last 20 years and taken that power. using executive orders and executive actions. that necessarily were not written into what we -- not you, because you are much younger, but what we learned and barry knapp, by the way, happy birthday, barry, he's emailing me already about this, you're coming on too. about -- but i think that's a different one. >> we are morphing into the political show but that is congress issue. that for 30 years they have ceded that power or allowed the executive to take the power. they can take it back anytime they want but that said, there's little to stop through section 301 or whatever the type of tariff the income administration wants to apply, there is little at this moment that congress seems willing to do to stop that so we have to sue much of that if not all of that is going to come to bear. >> did you have a -- reference in this show? >> i have no idea. i will leave it to the viewer to google aipa . >> i'm sorry, wing it.

yahoo it. >> most search is being done on amazon now. >> i gemini now. they told me the other day what was the performance of stock and they said we don't have access. >> make a deal with cnbc. it's going to cost them. next on power lunch, why ukraine is saying no to pollutants natural gas at least pollutants natural gas at least for now. i've seen it. trust me, after 15 walks, it gets a little old. ugh. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! unbelievable. stop waiting. start investing. e*trade ® from morgan stanley.

welcome back to power lunch. great start to your trading, 2025. let's talk energy. natural gas prices spiked to a 52 week high earlier this week

following reports of a colder than usual temperature forecast for january. that is what we call an understatement. we are supposed to get was called the polar vortex. i know. it's going to get really cold. could have two feet of snow in parts of virginia and maybe north carolina. they do great with snow down there. in the meantime, ukraine halting the flow of natural gas from russia to several european nations on wednesday. that brings an end to moscow's 60 year run of natural gas. 60 years through the same pipeline through ukraine. the question is, where does it go from here and what does it mean for us? joining us to talk about all of this from global energy prices this year, jonathan maxwell, founder and ceo of sustainable development. capital jonathan, good to have you back on. natural gas here in the united states, i mean, god, europe would love to have our spike, they are paying 50, we are paying 3 1/2 dollars. that said, do you think that the spike we are having here is short-term based on this weather forecast? >> probably not. one of the things that i find

amazing about this story of ukraine's five-year transit deal -- yesterday, no gas flowing through that pipeline and one of the things i find amazing actually is that we've now got more dependence on the united states in europe than the four, 40% in europe -- u.s. there is a huge pressure growing on gas prices here year and year. up about 70% in 2024 versus 20% in america. and i think there is a very substantial risk that is going to continue. i think we are looking potentially at futures trending higher for the summer this year and we've got substantial gas reserves but surely there is a risk here that sheer weight of demand come from europe against

supply constraints quickly. >> jonathan, look. u.s. prices are still incredibly low relatively. 360, up nine dollars during the peaks of 2022 we are nowhere near that and yes even though there is going to be -- look, we became the first u.s. exports of 2016 by 2023 we were the biggest exporter on the planet and our gas prices in 2023 and 2024 went nowhere. they basically were around three dollars about where they are now. you would think if hey were sending all of this gas there's this huge -- even if we ramp up to meet the demand that's coming, this big demand strike we are supposed to bring online 79% more capacity in the next couple of years to the u.s. isn't that likely to keep a lid on prices from spiking much more from here? >> i think european prices have always been much higher in america.

and the point that you are making is really since 2019 in particular america has become the largest -- europe is an importer. it's energy dependency has gone up, not down. energy dependence has gone up not down. the government -- independence but we import 76% of our energy. i think america is in an incredibly powerful position. having said that there are risks on the price side and you are going to see very substantial demand coming from here, in particular into the united states for imported energy and that's going to have an impact. there is a positive side to this from the financial perspective, incoming trumpet lustration -- projects. there was, by the way, a perhaps last ditch piece of news, unconfirmed oday, the biden administration is looking to permanently ban oil and gas -- before the end of the administration. >> i don't it's going to happen. >> the last attempt that they

had. >> the white house's attempt, it would send up a signal flare. jonathan, this should not be new news to any cnbc audience. we've been covering this story now for going on four years. is there a way to look back and say what was the main mistake or mistakes that europe and its leaders made because europe and the uk is in really bad shape. >> for sure. we have had investment in -- in the uk and europe and relatively little investment in storage in the uk and europe. there are enormous investments happening which i'm delighted about running a sustainability company in renewables but at the same time the energy system needs to sort itself out. the biggest piece of it -- the biggest piece that i would refer to is -- enormous u.s. do

but even more in europe. roughly two thirds of the european energy system when it comes to making electricity for example, roughly two thirds of the energy used to make electricity is lost basically through generations, natural gas systems, transmission distribution, let alone -- the biggest state mistake europe has made is it hasn't been efficient with the application of energy has to buy from overseas. >> jonathan, listen, that's fair enough but i would say the biggest mistake they've made, germany made a decision to reliance manufacturing economy on piped in gas from russia so the waste be what it may, the prices they've had to pay the past couple of years subsequent

to that, it has been a complete disaster same in the uk for their power prices. so they have to figure out a way to take care of the emissions or what have you but they also have to get the fuel in the first place. >> yeah but we can't fantasize about how we could produce fuel. europe is an importer, so is the uk, these are the facts. the question is what do you do about it? one of the disasters europe has faced is it started to make massive developments in areas which celebrated -- relatively little difference -- more efficient -- billions into power, which i'm delighted about, but it hasn't been balanced with improvement and efficiency. the u.s. has a much larger supply pace, by the way if america made itself more efficient it would also save hundreds of billions come a indeed, trillions. which i hope the department of government is going to focus on but europe needs this desperately.

if europe becomes more efficient -- since 2015, literally since the last time russia invaded ukraine through crimea, the european commission for energy said for every -- we don't use is 2 1/2 we don't buy from russia. the reason it's such a big difference is because of the level of waste and it's a wake- up call, it's the massive handbrake turn that -- because we can't do what america does. we cannot energy -- generate energy to this degree. >> you could if it was nuclear. >> well, great -- >> germany unfortunately decided to shut that off. >> correct. at this point it would take a decade maybe more. and that's just electricity.

electricity is only 20% of the energy system. >> well said, we will get you back on because this is a bigger conversation not one going on, jonathan maxwell is the founder of sustainable development n ceo as well and thank you, very quickly i would like to add that this negotiation it is possible that ukraine comes around and says, you know what? we will allow more gas to flow. >> for sure, find and be that as it may, but you can't tell me it's a bad thing that europe has built all of these import lng terminals, germany at all the rest of it to get u.s., get gas from the u.s., maybe australia? i mean that's a much better partner in -- than russia at this point. >> i've stood on several and i hope so and by the way the first load of u.s. lng from -- went to greece. we can go right from here to ukraine because it kind of looks bad, but go to greece first, then sell that to ukraine, the first load of u.s. lng to ukraine just came. so there's a lot of interesting stuff happening. >> there is. after the break two great years for the maetrks. the question is whether 2025 continues the winning streak. our next guest has a very specific reason to be bullish this year. we will explore that in market navigator, next.

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lunch. i wish the first trading day of the year was in the green and everything was great but it's not. a lot of the weakness that we sought to start in 2024 is rolling over to begin this year. the dow is down about 40 points, not a huge decline but all three are down for tenths of 1%. tom, good to see you. happy new year. what is our market navigator? >> we will talk a little bit about the fact that there is no santa claus this time of -- around but also it's been two banner years for the stock market in a row so that's good but will it be a three-peat? our next guest is bullish on equities in the coming year but says it's time to get back to basics, the fundamentals when it comes to actual stockpicking. join us now is the chief investment officer at catalyst funds. david. when we say back to basics and we say fundamentals we are talking about many different metrics but which basics and fundamentals are you talking about with regard to stockpicking in 2025.

>> the basics i focused on are things that drive the quality of business, what about revenue, earnings, return on equity, return on capital, what type of current and forward p are you paying and that is what i'm looking at. >> if that's the case, they always say the bottom line is the most important. the profits are the most important for the company. ultimately it's about a company trying to make money for its shareholders and everybody else in the ecosystem. where exactly is the profit story in 2025 and what types of companies get you there? >> yeah, the thing about the stock market or the s&p in general is historically if you go back 20 years, peas were around 20. now, today they are in the mid 27-ish range. maybe 25 on a forward basis but ironically i think they are a lot cheaper than they used to be not meaning that p is lower

than the other p but when you compare the companies and what they are worth, if you look 20 years ago and you don't get 2005, the largest companies in the s&p 500 were large capital- intensive, relatively cyclical businesses. they were banks like bank of america, citi, jpmorgan, they were general electric, general motors, ford, firms of that type of nature that both required a lot of capital, have relatively tight margins, would also be relatively cyclical, whereas you look at the companies that are dominating the s&p today and it's completely different. powerful monopolies that are growing rapidly with high free cash flow, net margins back in 2005 around 7% versus 12% today and when you think about a company like google or nvidia or meta, these companies margins are much more like printing money compared to what it used to be a couple decades ago, which is why i think we are still in store for a pretty powerful year ahead because those companies businesses are still firing on all cylinders

and i think evaluations are very reasonable. >> brian and i were talking in the break alongside kelly about the aspect of who can make it and how they can do it. what's the topic you have for 2025. >> you look at the magnificent seven and i think there's a good reason they call them the magnificent seven, these really are wonderful businesses, but you look at google in particular, they are the cheapest of the bunch, publicly 22w■ earnings, likely to grow revenue about 12% over the upcoming year, about 4% earnings yield on the company. i think they are very well positioned and very reasonably priced relative to the growth that you see that they have been able to put up in the cloud, and even though their core search business is still growing at a pretty healthy rate close to 30% on the cloud. >> the top pick is google.

thank you very much. wishing you a happy prosperous 2025. >> thank you appreciate it. >> you know, brian what's interesting, you don't know -- >> yes i do know and i know you.. the alphabet story is interesting. remember today earlier we had a downgrade, analyst downgrade on the shares but the stock was still up. it remains to be seen with the sentiment is like for the stocks. >> we've got to go to kelly. here's my question. everybody loves google but kelly said earlier i use gemini. fair enough, it's a google product but you do wonder, ai damage or help alphabets google's business fund. >> i don't know, i'm a copilot user so i'm in the minority right now but i'm going to diversify. >> how did you get copilot? i don't have copilot. >> you will. it's coming to outlook. microsoft is going to jam -- it's going to help us. >> we can't wait. thank you very much,uy tethbreak the latest on

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welcome back the u.s. dealing with attacks and aftermaths on the digital and physical fronts lately. the first is chinese hackers stealing treasury documents and what's been called a major incident in the terrorist attack in new orleans claiming the lives of 15. also growing suspicions around the cybertruck explosion outside of trump hotel in las vegas. we do have full team coverage of the stories this afternoon. let's begin with megan castella with the latest on the treasure hack. >> still more questions than answers on the security breach of the treasury. congressional republicans weighing and asking secretary young for a briefing on the details before the end of next week. the top republicans on senate banking and house financial services committee saying in a letter today that it was unacceptable that a china state sponsor advanced persistent threat actor, a pt actor was able to access treasury system saying it raised serious

questions about protocols for safeguarding sensitive federal information. that request coming after the washington post reported overnight that it was the sanctions office within treasury that was breached during the hack. this is the office that chooses which companies or which entities should be targeted for financial sanctions. that's according to unnamed u.s. officials to the post, treasury did not respond to our request for comment on that but on the topic of sanctions, china's ministry of commerce moving today to hit 28 u.s. companies with new grade -- trade controls over arms sales to taiwan. you can see them listed mostly in the defense space, boeing, lockheed martin, raytheon, a few others. china now stopping all experts to these companies effective immediately of all companies that have dual civilian and military uses. all these developments underscoring rising tensions between the u.s. and china. all of that taking place before any tariffs have yet to take effect. guys? >> we appreciate it. thanks, megan. in washington. >> let's get the latest on

terror attacks. they are terror attacks. nbc news jay gray joining us now. j? hey, brian, kelly, yeah the fbi saying this morning that they are 100% inspired by isis. that these were in fact terror attacks carried out by suspect. a lot unfolding in this investigation, the latest is the reopening of bourbon street. pedestrians after that terror attack that killed 14, wounded at least 35. the driver of the truck and gunmen at one point also died in a shootout with police. let's tell you what we've learned from investigators as they have updated the information they are providing for us. the suspect in this case, 42 years old, army veteran. apparently posted videos as he was driving his rented pickup from houston here to new orleans. he initially said that he

planned to harm family and friends but that he didn't think that would make a big enough splash according to the fbi in the media so he, in their words, quoting from his video, wanted to make sure everyone knew about the war between believers and nonbelievers. he proclaimed his allegiance to isis in another video and in one of the five also provided what they call a last will and testament. they opened bourbon street but before that happened they moved in heavy-duty barricades to line the street something that wasn't there the night of the attack as the truck just darted around police cruisers that were in place and sped up into the large crowd on bourbon street and we also know that later today there will be the kickoff of the sugar bowl, out of a college football playoffs. that game was supposed to be last night postponed until this afternoon. the governor today telling us he feels very confident about the safety and security of not only the french quarter but the superdome where the game will

be played this afternoon. saying that they wouldn't have opened this area if they weren't sure that it was safe. he says they have a new security perimeter around the superdome, the field where dav they've added personnel, federal, local and state police. they have more bomb sniffing dogs, they continue to search and comb the superdome and will continue to do that until this game is over so they feel confident about what's going forward right now but again, everyone cautious and watching and waiting to learn more about what's happened in this. >> j we appreciate you joining us with that report. over to pippa stevens right now for the rest of our cnbc news update. >> authorities say they believe in active duty army green beret was inside the cybertruck that exploded yesterday outside of the trump hotel in las vegas. they have identified the man as matthew littles burger but say they are still waiting for dna confirmation to confirm he was

in the truck when it went up in flames. the corner confirmed the man suffered a gunshot to the head before the explosion. matthew alan livelsberger is on leave in colorado springs when he rented the cybertruck in denver and drove it to las vegas. -- pleaded not guilty today to fraud charges in u.s. federal court. he has denied wrongdoing in the $40 billion collapse of two of his companies cryptocurrencies in 2022. he was extradited to the u.s. earlier this week from montenegro to face the charges. an appeals court ruled today the federal communications commission did not have the legal authority to reinstate net neutrality rules last april. the agency reversed its own 2017 repeal of the rules which took place when donald trump was in the white house. the fcc did not immediately comment on today's decision. kelly?

>> pippa, thank you very much. pippa stevens. shares of the drugmaker -- plunging after it's depression drug failed trial. down 1%, less than a two dollar stock right now. we will get the full story on this one, next. >> crypto watches sponsored by crip.com. crypto.com is america's premier crypto platform.

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welcome back. check out today's biotech blowup. gomorrah therapeutics losing almost all of its value after it's drug failed a trial. angelica joins us with the details. >> that's right. they failed to show it was any better than a placebo in a phase two trial. this is one of three studies that numora is running but they are calling this the worst case scenario and that's because numora's drugs are the exact same affect on depression symptoms as placebo, not even a little bit better and depression is a really tough space for drug

developers. the placebo effect can make a treatment look less effective than it is but analyst brian abrahams in a note today saying there is no obvious explanation here for this failure other than insufficient drug effect. i spoke to him a few eeks ago and he was estimating this to be a $2 billion drug so this is obviously a huge disappointment for investors. like you said that stock down about 82% today and also another setback for the field. numora going after new way to treat depression and there are more studies underway so it could always change and we are expecting data from johnson & johnson who have a similar drug in phase three with those results expected later this year so it's not over but it's certainly not a great sign, kelly. >> are there any other effects for the rest of the biotech space, angelica? >> this is definitely one we are watching and i don't see any overall effects to the xpi but it's been a pretty miserable few years for biotech and anytime you see a setback like this it can give people pause. we were talking about it this morning that you've seen billions of dollars of outflows in the sector last year so now,

deciding whether you want to invest in biotech or go somewhere else, maybe this does give you a little bit of pause about how much risk you want to take. >> angelica, thank you very much. it may be a new year but that doesn't stop us wanting to take a look back so did the top picks, wall street's most favorite stocks, did they actually do well last year? we will show you numbers and data you will not get anywhere else. it's a very special restock. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have $100,000 or more of life insurance, you may qualify to

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welcome back. time for more exclusive content on power lunch. every year me and one of my colleagues, michael bloom spent weeks collecting -- for the year. takes a lot of time but we do it for you, loyal viewer and listener. with the idea we cannot only show you which stocks wall street really likes for the year but also what stocks may be just did not perform the way they thought they would perform. these are all names on three or more topics lists.

let's jump in with stock number one and i'm going to blow your mind, this is a huge secret. nvidia. i know, you are shocked. nvidia was one of the names on the top list, top picks list more than three times. let's go three names here to help us trade all of them, area walled, managing director and head of analysis at oppenheimer arey. thank you for joining us. nvidia no shocker. what's the deal with 2025? >> good to see you on the show, brian. happy new year. for nvidia it comes down to trying to follow 101, the stock that's been trading above its 280 moving average not only since the start of last year but the start of 2023 as well. and nothing has really changed in our work through that. we are advocates for letting winners run. i think as much as nvidia has been established as -- that's the 200 day average, positive

above there. more recently has been consolidating around its june high at 141. >> all right, let's move from one extreme to the other. one of the worst performers was bowing but it appeared on several top lists despite the fact that it posted its worst year since 2020 it was down. what you do with them now? >> kelly, happy new year to you as well. we like relative strength but not relative weakness. you stay away from this one. here's a stock getting above the average for the first time in a year but consider, this is the third year of the cycle. what does the stock look like when the cycle tops out? i think there is relative risk and relative weakness coming off of a multi-decade low versus the s&p 500 so if you like it fundamentally, use that 200 day moving average as 171.

for us if it starts to fall back below, we would be looking to start shortening it again. >> low 171 which is right around where we are right now. >> dirty six stocks on three or more lists. we don't have time to go through all 36 but the name that maybe was the most surprising to me was a company called how matt aerospace on four top pick service lists. it's a company not a lot ever talk about. it basically doubled this year. wall street got this one right. what do you see? >> we spoke about it in a couple of our -- highlighted it as a top idea. aerospace and defense industry. the industry didn't really take off but the stock has continued to work and we still like it so it's got a bullish trend, it ranks high in our momentum work so for these reasons we recommend buying this minor pullback in the stock, good support at $105, that marks the november 6th gap in the 100 day moving average also converges

up there. >> aren't they the ones who make the sophisticated antiaircraft systems and all that? we appreciate your time joining us. so we close ouist th special edition of lunch. thank you. we will be right back. well would you look at that? jerry, you've got to see this. i've seen it. trust me, after 15 walks, it gets a little old. ugh. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! unbelievable. stop waiting. start investing. e*trade ® from morgan stanley. it's time to grow your business. create a website. how? godaddy. coding... nah. but all that writing...

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if you are a fan of the new york knicks or new york rangers and have optimum cable, guess what? >> i don't know what else to say, michael is here to talk about another cable fight which is literally leaving fans in the dark. >> we've seen a lot of these over the last few years, tv viewers are shifting from watching cable tv to streaming so this is just the latest episode in cord cutting and if you are a new york knicks fan

right now you are really ticked off. >> but you have options. how is the parent company pushing them -- are they pushing them some of the streaming options? >> with jones msg networks does have gotham sports which is a network that is on there as well as partnership with new york sports. the problem is they have to make it prohibitive almost to sign up for it if you don't have cable it's $30 a month. if you have cable and you are already subscribed to that, you get it for free but the problem is the profitability with the streaming apps like gotham, standalone entities aren't nearly as profitable as cable is. >> what does this mean for the tvs because they've made so much money in the past from regional sports networks. >> the knicks and rangers have long-term rights agreements going back to 2016 when the netflix -- networks were spun off so it started at a rights view of $100 million a year in the rangers 30 million which goes back to our earlier point

if you are a knicks fan, the knicks are the most valuable viewership. >> and they are good this year! they are actually good. >> the rangers are not good so their rights fees aren't going anywhere and unless catastrophe came and it went into bankruptcy in which case we still would have fees renegotiated lower. >> not a good sign. big change in the could be nego lower. >> big change in the media landscape. >> thank you. good to be here. >> happy new year. >> see you tomorrow. >> you too. thanks for watching "power lunch." >> "closing bell" starts now. welcome to "closing bell ." this mike or break hour begins with an unsettled start to wall street. stocks unable to take full advantage of new money expected to enter the mark net january after december's pullback. the index is on pace for a rare five-day losing streak straightling the turn of a year. the s&p 500 rally attempts failed to hold with big nasdaq names applying the heaviest pressure. you see