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tv   Mad Money  CNBC  January 7, 2025 6:00pm-7:00pm EST

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a little tlt. >> i think everyone should look at the pharmaceutical etf. >> bitcoin, bought it today. >>"mad money" starts right now. my mission is simple. to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere. i promise to help you find it. "mad money" starts now. i'm cramer. welcome. i'm just trying to save you a little money. my job is not just to entertain but to explain about what happens on days like today. rates one, stocks zero. that was the score of today's
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game. it terrified the bulls because if they are going to sell stocks, we could be in for a world of hurt. that's what today's session looked like. the s&p lost and the dow dipped. it was nasty. it crushed lots of well-known stocks. the selling got to all the speculative quantum computing stocks that i have warned you and told you to sell. it's not too late. i repeat, it's not too late to dump what you and i know are garbage stocks. why did they pulverize the good part of the market? why did some escape? the laggards that came to lead today. the cause of the decline and the rise in yields wasn't anything catastrophic. we got a lot of surveys thrown at us. one canvasses service providers. it showed so much strength that
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it thinks the fed might not give us any more rate cuts any time soon. right now, a ton of investors believe the fed needs to put through a bunch of rate cuts to revive the economy. lots of those are counting on the cuts. that seems wrong. they were rocked to the core. not only did they bid wrong, they are starting to question the fed's credibility. these investors were shocked to see a number as high as april of last year whether . they are presuming loan rates will go back to when we had a hot survey. that's what happened today. the decline in bond prices gained more stream. the treasury sold ten-year bonds at a discount. that's not a good sign. let's stop this. the stock market is rocking it higher almost the entire time. you can't say today's score is the final score.
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if rates drop to 4.5% from 4.68%, that's not impossible, we will kick ourselves for not buying. rates went down soon after we got the report last april. don't count it out. we get the labor department's numbers friday. if this shows unemployment is creeping higher or wages are stabilizing, then those loan rates are going to come down. it's the most important set of numbers out there. they are awe thor uthoritative. i think it's about some investors losing faith in the fed. they wonder why the fed cut short rates by 50 basis points in september and another 25 in november and another 25 in december. what did they see that made them so aggressive? judging by the data, nothing. the credibility issue, if you claim you are data dependented on the data is strong, then why the heck are you cutting so
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aggressively? i myself am mystified when long-term interest rates set by the bond market went higher after the rate cuts, that was a nasty verdict. it was a mean verdict. it said inflation is coming back. business is too strong. stop cutting. at the least, the bond guys think the fed got it backwards. that's why we are now. we know the fed can't raise rates. that would make them look like idiots. we get a hot survey, there are people who say stocks have gotten ahead of themselves. there are others who know only one thing, if rates are going higher, then we're headed for a burst of inflation that will send stocks lower. sell, sell, sell. two things can happen, rates
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repeal their climb or stocks repeal their gain. today we got the latter. usually all stocks go down when interest rates shoot up like today. instead, we had a decline in our leaders, the best performers, tech. and gained in some that have been beaten up like drugs, oils, transports. the banks have been good. sometimes the market gets it wrong. drug stocks, maybe they shouldn't rally. they should not have gone up on higher rates. i will bring you news. the transport scheme, makes no sense. oil, okay, went up $1. banks, that makes sense. they actually do better with slower rate cuts. survey numbers say they got -- that's about slower rate cuts if there are rate cuts. the real action today was the
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decline in the tech, especially the magnificent seven. i find people are predictable. can i just say, i've been studying this, over the long term they do well in this kind of environment? the growth is spectacular, they can outrun a rise in interest rates. don't give up the ship. can you buy this decline? is it an opportunity? i would love to say you should start buying tech stocks that got crushed. but i know we are two sessions away from the non-farm payroll report. i don't want to step in front of that freight train. the risk/reward is terrible. if the president-elect picks that day to say we need to roll on deporting -- he is running the country already. the market will get crushed again, especially tech. i want to step back for a moment. does this matter? is it all inside baseball? the answer is, it does matter. we have too much inflation in the system. the fed can't do anything about it because it cut rates. the fed is in a bind.
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it can't help us. we are at the mercy of the macro numbers going in the wrong direction. put it another way, we need to be lucky. i don't like that. that's not a good place to be. i don't want to be a bear. but i've been talking about how much of this market has been in bear territory for some time. the hard-hit sectors got a bump today. but tesla and nvidia, the hottest of the hot, got clobbered today. the former leaders will go lower if the labor department comes in too hot. that report has got to come in cool. luck. the garbage sold to you -- just stop with them. blow them out tomorrow morning or you won't be watching me by next week because you will be gone, too. the setup, big employment number, it does not favor the bulls. we need some sign the fed did the right thing when it cut rates or more days like today
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when loan rate goes up and stocks go down. we want stocks to represent the fundamentals, not the s&p futures. an overheated set of numbers aren't going to get order restored. we need real reasons to buy stocks. the number one thing we need, loan rates lower. otherwise, it's a long way and a long away game stretch for the bond market. i would rather be in the friendly confines of our home stadium watching rates go down and stocks go higher. lance in maryland. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. >> what's happening? >> caller: i would like to say i'm a happy club member. i would like to send a thank you and happy new year. >> thank you. jeff has been amazing. i think this comeback in the next tracker is extraordinary. we are taking advantage of it. how can i help you? >> caller: my question is, this
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company has been through a lot of negative news in the last year and a half. a price of $1.37 a share. is it time or too soon to start a position in boeing? >> i've been impressed. i think -- i've been pushing them to do the secondary for over 100 points. he listened to me. that tells me the guy has got highest compliment horse sense. dave is in illinois. dave. >> caller: do you realize your eagles will likely need to get through my -- one of my powerful contenders to reach the super bowl? >> it's going through there. detroit will be an away game. i have to tell you something, if you take that coach for the bears -- anyway, what's up?
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>> caller: this $20 billion stock finished last year up 40%. recently you ranked the firm holdings 13th out of 15 stocks to watch. over the last four quarters, affirm holdings surpassed consensus estimates three times. with the stock down 8% in the month of december, with strong fundamentals, where do you see this headed going forward? >> dave, i have to tell -- remember when max came on our show? with the stock in the mid 30s. he said it's bottom. i could not believe it. you never get these shots. the stock doubled. pulling back, count me as a buyer. i'm all in. i'm putting my chips in right here. i know he gets that joke, because he is a funny guy. maybe he doesn't have that going for him but he has a lot of good things going for him. we need real reasons to buy stocks, not because valuation is
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attractive. we need interest rates to go lower. american airlines got a triple threat of upgrades yesterday. is the stock going higher? i am pouring through the research. nippon and u.s. steel, what's with that? we will hear about a lawsuit. could tech drive a rally in the year ahead? i'm going off the charts to see if this may be make or break. you snow i'm a little concerned. i say you stay with us.
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i have been pounding the table in the airlines for a while. i was surprised when american airlines caught three upgrades yesterday morning. this caught my attention. because when you see multiple upgrades after a strong quarter, there was no news whatsoever from american. nothing happening in the industry. why the heck would three different firms go, buy, buy, buy, on the same day? let me walk you through the research. there may be something going on that we are missing. the entire airline industry has gotten a new lease on life. the companies were buying new planes left and right, have slowed down the capacity increases. in fact, they have been removing
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unproductive capacity. flights that were priced so low nobody was making money. the airlines have been terrible about this when business is good, new planes, which leads to price competition and crushes the profitability. now they are disciplined and it makes them more profitable. it's a highly unusual moment. all three upgrades site the removal of unproductive capacity. if these three firms could upgrade american airlines to buy because they weren't recommending it, and they weren't recommending it because unlike delta or united air, america has made a series of missteps. last may, they had to slash the guidance because they cut spending in their sales department. made booking sites ineligible for loyalty points to get people to buy from them directly. made it harder for travel agencies to sell trick et icket. they got hit hard on the
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business travel side. higher margin corporate travel, but it's been bolstering the bottom lines of delta and united. the loss of corporate travel business alone will cost them $1.5 billion this year. you never like to see mistakes like this. management can swallow their pride, they can create a buying opportunity. the an alysts believe that's th case. they all called out corporate market share recapture as one of the reasons for the upgrade. i will quote, american at current levels is appealing as we see above industry revenue growth and optionality in regaining lost corporate share, end quote. american is uniquely well positioned to benefit from the industry, removing so much unproductive capacity. they note that 70% of american. the domestic market is where you have had too much capacity.
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american will benefit from significant overlap with southwest in dallas and chicago, because southwest needs to raise prices on eliminate unprofitable flights if it wants to succeed in its activist-driven turnaround plan. aside from the capacity issue, the upgrade cites aircraft deliveries. the new planes are set to have many more premium seats than existing models. that's where the money is. they noted that they upgraded too early a year ago and failed to appreciate the transitory nature of the problems when they downgraded in july. tough luck. the same sentiment is echoed. the new jets will allow american to take share in long haul international travel. one thing is american's balance sheet. they upgrade and acknowledge they are willing to look past it. jeffreys said, american can
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clean up the balance sheet as they plan to devote free cash flow to paying down debt. they are making progress with $13 billion of this year's $15 billion debt reduction goal completed. it would put the total debt at $39 billion. by 2028, they plan to bring that down to $35 billion where they would have a leverage ratio of three. what else? all three firms expressed excitement about the credit card agreement. this ten-year agreement should expand the rewards for members and citi card members. it doesn't start until 2026. they give you a better rewards program. although the stock has moved past the citi credit card extension, the upside is still not fully appreciated. they believe american's new credit card agreement is
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expected to add at least $560 million in incremental high margin revenue in 2025. that sounds good. doesn't it? they go on, the revenue in 2025 will be driven by volume increases. in 2026, new economics kick in. that's a good plan. we do not believe the benefits are baked in. i think they are right. where do i come down on american airlines? all three firms make great arguments. much of what they are saying applies to the industry. that's why i'm pounding the table on delta, united last month. as for american, could be good. given the company's reporting later this month, it's better to see if management expresses confidence the previous missteps are behind them. i would be more enthusiastic with this one if they did. bottom line, maybe they know something that we don't. while i'm bullish on airlines,
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i'm not confident enough to stick my neck out on american until we see the earnings in a little over two weeks. until then, just stick with delta and united. they have been better operators. some real good stock. "mad money" is back after the break. with the bid for u.s. steel in the balance, the ceo of cleveland cliffs weighs in.
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we had a story and we need answers. president biden blocked nippon steel from acquiring u.s. steel, citing national security concerns. this is where biden and trump are on the same page the formal decision has set a bunch of things in motion. they sued the federal government. good luck there. they sued rival teelmaker cleveland cliffs along with the ceo and the head of the united steel workers union for what they describe as a coordinated series of anti-competitive racketeering activities to prevent any other party than cliff from acquiring u.s. steel as part of a campaign to monopolize critical domestic steel markets. they are arguing they colluded
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to get it blocked. they published their own press release calling the lawsuit desperate and saying both are trying to deflect blame. earlier today, my colleagues spoke to the ceo of u.s. steel. i'm eager to hear cleveland cliffs ' side. we will go to the president and ceo. welcome back. >> hi, jim. it's a pleasure to be with you. >> same. i gotta tell you, when people charge other people with a federal crime of racketeering, it's not something that can be charged lightly, because this is something that people actually go to jail for. i want to understand how someone could say this about you. i know you are saying the comments are desperate, but this is a charge the justice department could look into if they keep pressing it.
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>> look, maybe is influence of nippon steel in the legal system. filing a lawsuit is basically a condemnation for the defendant in japan. here in the united states, presumption of innocence is something that is paramount to democracy. we are a country that continues to teach the world how democracy works, how capitalism works and how laws work. it's not just me. the statement coming from the ceo of u.s. steel called the president of the united states corrupt. as an american, i feel offended. this is just absurd. to tell and publicly say on tv that the president of the united
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states tell them how to vote. this is serious accusation. i'm sure the u.s. government will defend themselves. from my side, i'm going to defend myself and we are going to make sure that things are clarified to the maximum possible extent. >> did you get lucky here in that i think u.s. steel's earnings are going to be lower than when you got interested in 2023? is this something that -- this is so valuable, someone has to get it and it should be you because you can make the most money with it? >> look, at this point, the situation has changed completely. at this point, tariffs are coming. president trump will change the backdrop of the entire industry. i'm not so sure if the best outcome is the combination of cliffs and u.s. steel. maybe the best outcome is cliffs
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stays alone and u.s. steel stand alone and you continue to compete like we have being always doing against others. you know very well this market. it's a very competitive market we were happy the way we were. we were forced to do that under a situation that was not the situation to have coming out with president trump. what we can't afford, what we can't allow is this -- trying to basically undermine this from the inside. japan over capacity is the problem. china over capacity is the problem. china learning from japan. you can't allow that over capacity to be the demise of all american steel companies with free money for japan. >> why did president biden, do you think -- the reason why the
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earnings of the u.s. steel companies have been falling apart. >> president biden used his powers as president of the united states after the deal received national security review. they went not through one but three 90-day periods of review. the normal 90 days and two more extensions of 90 days to try to prove the case. to make sure that it would be unanimous and approving with no national security risks. they failed. they miserably. the decision goes to the desk of the president of the united states and the president of the united states used the power. he blocked the deal. the only problem was, it took
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too long. if it were president trump, this thing would have been resolved in one to two months maximum. >> i heard u.s. steel's ceo talked to david faber this morning. he seemed to think he can get president-elect trump to change his mind. is that delusional? >> i don't know. i don't know. you have to ask president trump. as far as i know, president trump is a very coherent guy. he has been talking about the damage that japan inflicts into the united states since 1987. if you go to youtube, you are going to see a very young donald trump talking about japan. it looks like he is talking today. on top of that, keep in mind, the biggest proponent from the political world was now vice president-elect at that time senator j.d. vance who sent a
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letter co-signed by senator marco rubio that is the incoming secretary of state. he will be member of the next group. senator josh hawley, sent a letter to janet yellen on december 19, 2023, one day after the announcement of the deal, asking to chime in quickly to do their job. the same three senators, vance, rubio, and hawley, they send another letter at this time to president biden basically telling president biden, president biden, five months have passed. use the number of -- i don't know the number from the top of my head. of the statute or another number of the statute to block this deal. use your powers. stop saying you have your back and things like that. he didn't do it. he took too long.
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that's why we are landing in this strange situation. we will resolve this. >> when u.s. steel was going to earn $4.64, you were willing to pay $35 for it. it's going to earn $1.35. it's not. let's stop kidding ourselves. maybe a $1. what is it worth if it makes a buck per share? >> i'm not going to go into this discussion right now. i think we have a much more important task to resolve on this thing. they have until february 2nd to pack and go. that's what the law says. like i hear a lot, they follow the law. they have to follow the law. >> i need your help for one last question. what is the biggest threat facing the u.s. steel industry
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right now? >> over capacity. over production of steel. biggest problem, china. biggest mentor of the problem, japan. japan taught china over capacity is fine. particularly if you are a friend. if you are a friend, you can take advantage. you can take advantage of the masht. you can take advantage of the workers. you can take advantage of the good will of the american people. that has to stop. i'm glad biden finally did what he had to do. president trump will continue to do it. they're going to make america great again. i'm very proud to be part of that. >> let's leave it at that. chairman and president and ceo of cleveland cliffs responding to serious charges that i think would make anyone angry. i think -- all i can say is, good luck on this. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. >> "mad money" is back after the
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break. stocks waived. are the charts pointing towards a rally? cramer is tackling the technicals of tech next. it's a lot to be a caregiver and a daughter. because you kind of have to take a step back. getting some help would be a great relief. from companions to helpers to caregivers. find all the senior care you need at care.com ♪♪ only servicenow connects every corner of your business, putting ai to work for people. pfft ... every corner? every corner, nick. ow! so kate in hr ...
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now that the market spent over a month trading sideways digesting the post-election rally, what are we going to look for? there's uncertainty in this environment with most coming from the bond market. long-term interest rates have marched higher since the fed started cutting short rates in september. that's made things tricky, especially for yesterday's hideous three-year treasury auction and today's action. sometimes at moments like this
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you need to step back and find more quantitative approaches. tonight, we are going off the charts. jessica is the founder of the market made her podcast. we didn't know why stocks would take off in november at the time. we didn't know it would be a trump rally. the analysis told us good things were possible. what does she see now? tricky. she's noticed two themes. the ten-year treasury yield is approaching 4.75%. that's a critical resistance level. if that holds, we might not have to worry about the bond market going against us. second, the semiconductors are turning bullish. it didn't feel like it today. bear with us. that means tech may be ready to take the lead again. this is a recipe for narrow tech-driven rallies like last year. i think we do worse.
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first, let's look at the daily chart of the s&p 500. it needs to overcome resistance right here. the level where it set a lower high on december 26. we have to go back to that level. that's up about 140 points from where it's trading. she's watching for a breakdown below the 50-day moving, that's purple. we got to today. following by a test of the post-elect gap up which took us to 5.864. i would say we're in a precarious area. look, there's the post gap up. come back down. if the s&p can break out above 605, that level again, that would be positive. it would trigger a bullish crossover down here. this is the moving average. this is one of the most reliably bullish signals out there. that would be terrific. put it all together. the daily chart is noisy.
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there are things that could go right. there are things that can go wrong. i think it's going to be very hard to do. if we zoom out to the s&p 500 weekly chart, which is different. a set of straightforward rules here. watch the 13 week. the 26 week. the 40-week moving average. 13 weeks is one quarter. that's the key unit of time in this business. all the quarterly moving averages are sloping higher and acting as support. that tells you we have a bullish trading cycle. however, if it finishes below 5940, which is where the 13-week moving average sits, then she would say, we're in a breakdown mode. we are below that level right now. this is a weekly chart. we have a few days to bounce back. she thinks given the rebound in the semiconductor stocks, we
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could be in for another tech-led rally. check out the technology select sector. that's the xlk. tech roared yesterday in the run-up to ces known as the consumer electronics sold. it sold off hard today. when you look at the weekly action in the xlk, she notes that it has been leading the way for months until the last few weeks when they failed to make a higher high. she's hoping it will drive a breakout. that hasn't happened. she points out that when you look at the 13, 26 and 40-week moving averages, they are trending higher. support for the xlk, that means tech has a bullish trading cycle. i know it didn't seem that way. you can see the chart. right now, she sees resistance at $241.48. a floor down here, $232. tight here.
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$237, i'm sorry. that's a weekly floor of support. we broke down beneath that today. if the xlk can get back up by friday, it's no big deal. if tech can't find its footing, that's problematic. in her view, what's happening is represented by the xlk. it's looking better than what's happening outside of tech. many of the big tech stocks have huge waves. you have multiple trillion dollar tech enterprises in there. to get a sense of what the market would look like without tech, she likes to look at the s&p 500 qual weight index. very unrealistic but it does show you it takes away the power of the tech exposure. as you can see from the weekly chart, the s&p equal weight -- it's doing terribly. remember how i talked about the great bear market of 2024 and 2025 at the top of the show last night? this is what i'm referring to. when you weigh the big tech
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stocks the same action everything else, the s&p 500 is getting pulverized. it has fallen through the floors. represented by the 13 and the 26. the next floor is the 40-week moving average. do we not want to take that out. she says we don't need the equal weight to make a comeback. tech can carry the market as long as the s&p equal weight stops collapsing and finds its footing. she's betting tech can take care of everything else. 40-week moving average has to hold here. it's not going to be easy. here is the bottom line. the charts suggest we could be headed for another narrow tech-led rally, as long as the s&p can put up okay performance this week. otherwise, she's less confident in her positivity. that was the takeaway. i came back thinking, when she was -- i regarded these as --
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you know what? there's things that could go right. i like that. bill in massachusetts. >> caller: thanks for taking my call. >> of course. >> caller: i bought dupont twice. i'm thinking about buying more. could you explain a little bit more about how -- how they're going to spin off the water part of it and the other things? >> sure. first of all, i agree -- thank you for being a member of the club. i looked at dupont. i was going over with jeff. we feel very strongly that the three units will never actually be spun off. what will happen is one will get a bid. i think it's going to be the water business. i think this is one of the few situations where the sum of the parts is worth more than the whole. like you, i want to buy some. we feel our area should be 69, 70 to buy more. i think the stock is worth $100. the chart suggests we could be
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headed for another narrow rally led by tech. if the s&p can't finish strong -- "mad money" is back after the break. the sky is the limit. it's a lightning round next.
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it is time. the lightning round. are you ready?
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start with michelle in california. >> caller: hi. i'd like to ask about novonortis compared to eli lilly. >> novonortis is inferior. denmark, maybe president-elect trump will pick a fight with them. i would be careful. william in new jersey. >> caller: thank you. i want to talk about pepsi. pepsi has been going down. >> yeah. pepsi has got -- i talked about that cornell business school study last week. in the wheelhouse. it's talking about salted potato chips. i don't know what to say. yield is 3.73. maybe 4%. right now it's in the crosshairs of crosshairs. >> caller: hello from new york. i'm calling about a large health
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care company that made a 4.6 billion acquisition last week that hardly made the news. the company bought a medical service organization involving treating eye diseases. it was a cash purchase and included over a billion dollars of debt held by the large company. the company i'm referring to is sencora. used to be the old a, b, c. i think steve is smart. i met him last year. i gotta tell you, i think the stock can go lower. people don't like him. i prefer cardinal to this one. i did like the acquisition. let's go to sharon in new york. >> caller: hi. happy new year. >> same. >> caller: i watch your show often. my friend jim who -- not jim, what am i saying? my friend john --
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>> i have that affect on people. >> caller: yes. who lives on the upper west side, he and me want to know what is your outlook on lemonade? >> lemonade stock is one of those that i'm talking about. it's up too much. let it come down. it's not a joke stock but it's losing a fortune. companies that are losing fortunes -- go over your portfolio. if you own them, sell, sell, sell. >> house of pain. >> that was easy. >> that, ladies and gentlemen, is the conclusion of the lightning round. >> announcer: the lightning round is sponsored by charles schwab. coming up, cramer is offering up takeaways from yesterday's keynote from nvidia's ceo and revealing why the stock's moves aren't the be all, end all for the future of the gpu giant next.
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if you look at the hideous action in the stock of nvidia today, you would think the ceo wants for nothing special. but sometimes the stock doesn't tell the whole story. particularly this stock. the tech sector rolled over today as other parts of the market held up well. i would argue the tech stocks were victims of the failing ten-year treasury. this stock was up huge going into the speech last night. it was shocking invideo nvidia strong this morning. i'm a stock guy, not a health guy and not a bank guy.
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i cover many different industries. some stocks i follow more closely than others. like nvidia. i know its capabilities. as someone who knows about the company, i did find last night's speech dazzling. last night, he took a leap to go deeper with physical ai, including making robots and taking it to the next level. everything that moves from cars and trucks to factories and warehouses will be robotic and embodied by ai. that sounds like the economy where we have digital agents that can do all sorts of things for us. it's nvidia. the world will never be the same. i think it's happening sooner than expected. that was the takeaway. he talked about the relevant ai pc, omething considered a bust. he mentioned mentioned for health care and gaming. there are new clients, like toyota that may want to build a network using a supercomputer in one place.
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if toyota decides to build out, it will have to buy hundreds of thousands of nvidia chips. that's good for business. there are always people, plenty of people who own nvidia for the long term. they should be gratified. but there's a huge group of people who own it because it goes up. the stock went nuts going into and immediately after the speech. these people, many of whom buy call options, don't know enough to stay in. i'm sure they didn't watch the keynote or read the blogs. they are in it because of the momentum. when it turns, they turn, too. >> sell, sell, sell. >> this is business as usual. i may not know everything he talked about, he assured you the new industrial revolution is alive and well and coming in a short time. in my eyes, the nvidia stock was brought down because there was too much hot money in the stock.
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these fellow travelers are your worst enemy if you are a shareholder. this had nothing to do with the specs. i thought it died a few years ago, but it's alive and well with a stock that has had this move over and over again. it stands out because the company has $3.4 trillion market capitalization. to some degree, this morning, at $153, it was priced for perfection. it closed at $140. last night, he actually gave us perfection. that's why nvidia opened up. other forces intervened and crushed the stock. we don't know what the employment number will look like friday. if it's at all soft, today's sellers will be kicking themselves. if you don't own it, you can think about buying some now. maybe nicely below its all-time high and buy more if it comes in hot and you can buy it lower. maybe much lower. understand one thing, the new projects are up ahead of any other company. this new industrial revolution belongs to nvidia.
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that doesn't mean it can't go down. it means that you can buy happily. when they do happen, remember they tend to be sizable and brought about by scared shareholders. there's a bull market somewhere. i will find it for you here at "mad money." i'm jim cramer. see you tomorrow. they'll invest their own money or fight each other for a deal. this is "shark tank." ♪♪ o'leary: let's do this. narrator: first into the tank is what the entrepreneur believes is a better way to keep things cool. hello, sharks. my name is stan efferding.

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