continue. big tech continues to be the place to be. i think you can broaden your exposure not just to the mag seven, but some of those other names i think have been driving this rally more recently. >> michael. appreciate it. michael landsberg, bennett private wealth. >> all right. well, hey, i'm off monday for a speaking thing that's not giving a speech. >> can we carry it live? >> no. >> well. >> thanks for watching, everyone. i'll see you tuesday. >> sounds good. closing bell starts right now. >> all right, guys, welcome to closing bell. i'm scott wapner live from post nine here at the new york stock exchange on this friday. this make or break hour begins with another solid week for stocks. and what lies ahead. with megacap earnings on deck and looming large, we'll ask super investor bill gurley, who stands to win the ai arms race and the personality clash between elon musk and sam altman. he'll join me momentarily in a cnbc exclusive interview. in the meantime, the scorecard with 60 to go in the week looks like this lower across the board. a little bit of a holding pattern, i think you could say ahead of next week's big earnings report

sectors, they are mostly split today. there are those several tech names making news. meta is higher planning to spend $65 billion this year on ai. that's all alphabet on track to close above $200 for the first time ever. it is right there right now. we'll watch every move into the close. and how about twilio today ripping after its investor day, its buyback announcement a lot of optimism around that name. today we are watching shares of venture global two. it's the biggest ipo since july right here at the new york stock exchange. a report on that is coming up as well. it takes us to our talk of the tape, new records and what's next for stocks. let's ask the panel. stephanie gild is robin hood's head of investment strategy. cameron dawson, chief investment officer with new edge wealth. aiko yoshioka with the wealth enhancement group. welcome, everybody. it's good to have you with us. all right, cam, you first chopped a lot of wood over the last couple of weeks. now we're on this this swing higher today notwithstanding, how do we feel about the markets. >> we're sitting right near or right at that all time high.

we've moved a lot in the last eight days. but i think the important thing to note is that there has been a very pro cyclical risk on tone to this market. look at things like cyclicals outperforming defensives high beta outperforming. that's a very good thing for risk appetite. the thing to watch is there's a little bit of a breadth divergence, meaning that we didn't get that typical kind of breadth thrust coming out of the low off of that 100 day moving average. so maybe there's a little bit more volatility in wood to chop. but of course earnings season coming in better than expected helps on the fundamentals side. >> all right stephanie no tariffs no problem i mean is that is that the baseline of how we should view things at least for the moment. >> no i think tariffs will definitely i think they could come for sure. and we need to be careful about that. but there are also a lot of good things that are coming out. like i think deregulation as part of this administration is really driving markets. the ipo today, all of those things. and while i don't completely agree on the breadth mark, because we're

seeing midcaps are outperforming and small caps doing better and you're seeing industrials, you know even industrial production come in very strongly. so i think there's a lot of optimism. >> you think this is the moment for a real and legitimate broadening that actually lasts for a while. we've had this before. it just hasn't lasted. >> yeah i do, but i think that the risk in it is that we haven't actually dealt with the hard problem, which is interest rates in our deficit that hasn't come up in government yet. it's all the kind of good things that through executive order. >> but i, you know, rates have come off the boil a little bit to stephanie's point. you know, we're worried about tariffs and we're thinking about the deficit and we're worried about the fed not cutting as much as we wanted to. but as long as rates stay off that burner are we all right. >> i think so. you know in 2025 i think the fed's not going to be as front and center as it has been over the last couple of years. you know, they're on pause. and so it allows a lot of the companies within the s&p.

500 or, you know, across small and mid cap space for their earnings to do the heavy lifting. and so we expect that to continue to be the case in 2025. >> i know there's a lot of optimism. and it's for good reason. it's for the deregulation that stephanie talked about. it's for the tax cuts that many expect. it's a more pro-business environment. doesn't mean that there, of course, aren't any risks like the ones that larry fink was talking about with our own sara eisen out in davos, about what might happen and what to watch out for. listen. >> if you expand that throughout the world, this is my optimism about growth. but at the same time, we actually are going to have labor shortages, which is going to be driving up wages. i think we're going to see more persistent wages, you know, in some. and that may be a good outcome, but it's going to be an inflationary outcome. we're going to have material shortages with all this building out. and

so i think we are somewhat complacent that that inflation can hit us again. >> i think cameron larry fink gets paid a lot of money to worry about that kind of stuff. and others in the banking industry have talked throughout the last couple of years about similar risks. are we too complacent about inflation coming back in part because of trump 2.0 policies? >> i think we have to appreciate the uniqueness of the last two years that allowed inflation to moderate without having it impact growth. the fact that you had a big surge in low cost labor come into the us, you had a productivity surge coming out of the worst of the covid low. all of that led to this ability to be able to see disinflation without it impacting growth. but we still have this tight labor market. if you start reducing immigration, if you add tariffs, which can cause disruptions to supply chains and you start spending more money, and even if you add on top of that the potential that the fed could continue to cut rates, you set up for an environment where

inflation could be a lot stickier and not get to that 2% target. >> i mean, there is, stephanie, a reason why people are more optimistic about, you know, other parts of the market beyond tech, in part because of what larry fink was talking about. i mean, the environment is good. whether it leads to inflation is going to be anybody's guess. but small caps, mid caps. you actually think you could have really, really good returns in those areas this year. >> yeah, because two reasons. one is earnings growth i think could actually meet or beat expectations. they're expected to be double digits. but also because it's where there are decent valuations that you know mid caps. i actually am a little bit more bullish on mid caps than small caps. the reason being is if we do have an issue with inflation or interest rates start to rise for other reasons like our deficit, then mid caps should fare better because small caps tend to have a lot more floating rate debt and more leverage on average. that being said, valuations are much more attractive there than they are in the large cap space. >> 20% returns, maybe in mid

caps, maybe small caps. yeah. does that match with what you think? >> you know i think we are going to get a little bit more sort of bang for your buck out of especially that mid cap space. and even in the small cap space. you know i think what everybody's looking at is quality growth. so you want companies that have solid balance sheet generating free cash flow and can operate in this environment of higher interest rates without being impacted too much from a leverage standpoint. >> all right let's go. let's go big. go big or go home time on the show. because it's all about the mega caps right. all right cameron what's at stake next week you're going to have three of the group reporting next week. how good do these reports have to be now. >> they have to be stellar. but we're still in this environment. look at meta today announcing a big increase in capex. and the stock is rallying. we remember the days that if meta announced a big increase in spending on anything, the stock would positively sell off. so we're

still in an environment where mega-caps have this halo around them, where you have an ai rush to spend. that does not mean that they cannot show growth and they cannot deliver on margin expansion. so the bar is very high because we've seen these rallies over the last couple of months. and given the fact that this is still a fairly narrow market from a leadership perspective, the overall market is certainly riding on these names to deliver. >> you guys have six of the seven seven names, all but all but tesla now not all are reporting next week. we're going to have to wait for a few of the other names. but what really is at stake here? >> sure. so market leadership is at stake right now. just given the concentration of the s&p 500 index with these seven names. however, you know, a lot of them are driven by very long term growth thematics. and i think you don't want to completely abandon them, you know, just because they potentially miss earnings. i think they could be buying opportunities over the

long term. but it really depends on your overall portfolio. >> i mean, one of the biggest questions i think is about that stock right there at the top of your screen right now. let's put that put that back up. if we could please i mean is apple. the stock is below a number of key, you know, technical marks of your customers at robinhood have been selling that stock lately a little bit. >> they were selling it in 2nd december when it was doing a bit better. but our customers as a whole tend to trade around the volatility. and so we haven't looked at the numbers yet for the month, but i would not be surprised if it was a place they were actually adding to because they like to look for opportunities. >> buying on the on the dip, on the dip. i mean, it's having its worst month in something like two years, maybe even a little bit more than that. does apple matter to this market as much as it once did? >> it certainly matters from a weight perspective. we've seen this divergence within the mag seven. i think it's important to note note with apple is that over the last couple of months, the rally was completely driven by multiple expansion. it got up

to trading to 34 times forward. so the perennial question with apple is how much do you pay for a company that has a huge amount of cash on its balance sheet to buy back shares, has the best brand in the world, but only grows earnings by eight 9% a year. it's something that's constantly debated, which is why we see this multiple being the key thing that drives the stock. >> all right, let's take a breath for a minute. i'm going to talk about this ipo today. venture global making its debut here at the new york stock exchange the largest ipo since july. we haven't had all that many, which is why we've asked leslie picker to come on now, our senior banking reporter and talk about all this, because the banks are sure hoping that this is the first of many. >> they certainly are. and it was a big one. it did get done. but as you saw and as you said, scott venture global shares are slipping today after downsizing its ipo on muted investor demand. the liquified natural gas producer raised $1.75 billion, the first megacap ipo of the year and of the new trump

administration. venture global says that it's differentiated from other lng players is the cost basis by which it's able to develop projects. that allows companies to get nat gas into the market faster and cheaper. however, the top and bottom lines for this company did decline in the nine months through september. ceo michael sabol talked about the future earnings potential this morning on squawk on the street, where he said they're going from operating 18 liquefaction trains to 90 in the future. and as you turn those trains on more, the commodity is produced and they expect to earn a lot more money from that venture. global is also going through litigation with some of its biggest customers over allegedly reneging on some long term commitments to profit on the spot market. so there are a lot of elements that investors really had to sift through with this one, scott, which is possibly why you're seeing some muted activity today. >> let me just ask you, since it's the end of the week and, you know, yesterday was obviously a big day of

conversation in the banks, as we know, because of the comments that the president made in davos regarding bank of america. any more on that today, have has bank of america or any of the other firms, after giving you those statements yesterday, said anything more about this issue? and do you expect that this is going to go away? >> yeah. no, they haven't said anything more. scott. our colleagues in dc, eamon javers and megan casella, they actually did some reporting earlier this morning and found that the white house actually hasn't heard from the banks, hasn't heard from bank of america as of, you know, earlier this morning when they reported it. so it seems like there hasn't been as much of a direct communication back and forth over the issue. that said, it was absolutely trending on twitter. a lot of people were kind of tweeting about their own bank accounts being canceled. again, it's always difficult. and we talked about this a lot yesterday. always difficult to know the full picture because the customers and former customers are not always typically not given a reason for why their accounts are closed.

so it's easy to kind of draw conclusions where it might be, you know, another cause entirely that has prevented the bank from doing business with any particular person or business. >> notable to les, don't you think that, you know, bank of america was a big winner yesterday, even after president trump said what he did? >> yeah. >> and it's green again today. and let's not forget that the earnings most recently for the whole space were pretty good. and the optimism around this area isn't waning one bit, seemingly, pardon the pun, trumping what the president himself had to say yesterday. >> yeah, it magically has been the biggest outperformer among the six, the big six yesterday. and i believe the same is true today. it's actually much of this backlash or how much of this, you know, negative narrative surrounding bank of america ultimately filters

through into the bank's bottom line and into their ultimate financials. and one element that makes the banking industry different than a lot of other industries is just the stickiness of their customers. you know, if you are already a customer of bank of america, there's kind of a higher bar to take your money out and move it to another bank. people just don't tend to do that. so it's not that they can't, but it doesn't tend to happen. yeah. en masse, if you know you're a big stable bank, too big to fail, like bank of america. >> i mean, it's a nuisance. i think we all know that it's a nuisance to have to do it, no matter what size your bank account is. leslie. thank you. leslie picker. we'll see you soon. cameron, i don't know of another sector in the market that has as much optimism around it than financials. justified. >> well, they've delivered. not a single financial company has missed earnings this earnings season. so about two thirds or two thirds of the sector has reported. and you've not seen a single earnings miss which suggests that there is good earnings momentum. technically there is a lot of momentum

within the stock prices. you have seen valuations expand a lot. the thing to watch is with ipos there's a lot banking on this. investment banking revenue starting to come back in full swing. we certainly saw recovery last year. we're well below where we were in 2021. the good news on that the ipo index has actually outperformed the p 500 by 20% over the last two years. so it's sort of like jumping into the deep end and saying the water is all clear, that you've seen some of these stocks do well coming right out of the gate. >> last point, stephanie, you like the space. >> i do. i think i think interest rates and the direction of them, potential direction of them, and the difference between tens and twos will continue to help them. >> all right. good weekend everybody. thanks for being here. stephanie guild, cameron dawson, we'll talk to you soon. ayaka yoshioka joining. joining us as well. all right. to kristina partsinevelos. now for a look at the biggest names moving into this friday. close christina. >> well, scott, president trump's rather not comments on tariffs sparking a rally for chinese tech stocks. shares of pd, which is the parent of tmo and pinduoduo. they are positive

and see shares up 6%. and that's a positive spillover as well on jd.com and alibaba. just on that softer rhetoric. nextera energy, the top s&p 500 stock, up about 6.5% right now despite an earnings miss. and guess what saved the day? the ceo's promise to capitalize on the demand for ai and data center power to do so. nextera and ge will be joining forces to build natural gas power solutions. nextera also looking to reopen a nuclear plant in iowa. scott. >> christina. thank you. back to you soon. kristina. partsinevelos. we're just getting started here. up next, star investor benchmark's bill gurley standing by for an exclusive interview. we get his take on this week's big i announcement, the drama between elon musk and sam altman. big earnings next week. all things tech with mr. gurley next.

>> powering sustainable growth in a changing world. powering financial solutions that transform industries. powering innovation with access to capital. powering critical decisions with precise data and insights. powering seamless execution in evolving markets. we deliver our entire global bank to power new possibilities bank to power new possibilities for you. ok guys, instead of getting weathertech, i saved a few bucks and got some cheap, foreign made floor mats. but they really stink, so put these on. ♪♪ really, gary? mom, i'm thirsty. don't settle for cheap, stinky floor mats. at weathertech we make our floorliners and cargo liners here in america, out of pure non-toxic american materials. dad, next time get weathertech. they don't stink! i'm on it.

find out everything we have at wt.com. marcos. real big 30% off pizza. deal with our dough made in-house daily, three real fresh cheeses and premium toppings. it all adds up to a real big tasty deal. meat venue on the nyse. american symbol venue disrupting a multi-billion dollar live music industry venue owns and operates upscale music venues, outdoor amphitheaters with seven revenue sources $166 million in assets. luxury suite sales of $77 million in 2024, $200 million

expected in 2025. 56% year over

888314 3835. >> all right, welcome back. i taking center stage at the white house this week with the announcement of stargate, a $500 billion joint venture between openai, oracle and softbank. president trump hailing the investment as a, quote, resounding declaration of confidence in america's potential. only hours later, though, presidential paypal elon musk publicly questioned the money behind the deal, which led to a back and forth between him and openai. sam altman on x just the latest incident in their ongoing beef. for more on what it all means and where this all goes from here, let's welcome in bill gurley. he is general partner at benchmark. it's a cnbc exclusive. it's nice to see you again. it's been a while. we're really glad to have you

today. >> it has been a while. good to see you scott. >> as well. so what is your view of stargate. >> well i've been trying to figure it out, and i think there's a chance that they may be to. it looked a little rushed on the announcement, and that would make sense, right? because president trump wanted to have some big wins early on. and so i think this thing got pulled together. i had a lot of questions. i actually posted those questions on x and in the past 24 hours. i'll tell you what, what i think i've learned, but i've heard this from others so i don't have access to direct source. people are telling me it's going to be a prop co op co structure, which i didn't even know it was 24 hours ago, but it's like a one person there's a company called crusoe that's been involved in in the build of that. and openai would be the sole customer is what i've been being told. and this, this i have three observations.

if all those things are true. one, i'm curious why softbank would want to be part of a private credit pool. it's not what they've typically done. i think it's clear from some of the back and forth with microsoft that came out right around the same time that that relationship, we knew there was tension. i think it it's probably got more tension than even we thought before. and the third thing i would note is if it is a prop co op co structure, this represents a big lease liability or the equivalent of a lease liability for openai. so this company already had probably the most complex cap structure of any company like it that we've ever known. and they're going to be putting one more complex piece on top. >> it's interesting. i mean, when you use the word like, you know, suggesting it might might have been rushed, or are you suggesting that it's not necessarily what meets the eye, that you have some level of skepticism around this project about the money and whether it actually comes to fruition?

>> well, i think a lot of people have have voiced questions about that in the past 24 hours, and they certainly didn't release a bunch of details. so it's easy to be somewhat skeptical. i would also add, there's been a lot of hyperbole in the ai market, and when you get trump and masa and sam in a room together, like i would expect some amount of over promotion. and, you know, just because there's hyperbole doesn't mean these things aren't real. you can have prosperity and hype hyperbole at the same time. i think we have many times in the past, but yeah, there's a there's a certain amount of promotion. we're trying to figure out the details. i think there's probably going to be debt involved. so it's not like they're out raising 500 billion in equity. and they're probably starting with a much smaller number and hoping to grow into that bigger number. >> you also suggest, i think that while many people are focused on oracle and the stock was up a tremendous amount, obviously when the when the announcement came out, you seem

to be more focused on the fallout, if you will, from microsoft. and maybe there's more fracture between this relationship and the fallout for it could be perhaps more dramatic that investors need to take note on. is that correct? >> one of the reasons, one of the reasons i enjoy just digging in and looking at this stuff so much, is just how unbelievably interesting it is. i mean, this is better than than a season of secession, right? all these different players you mentioned earlier, the elon sam back and forth right after, like we've never seen this kind of thing before. the deal between microsoft and openai, as it's been reported once again, i've never seen it sounds like one of the more complex deals of all time. they have profit rights up to like $90 billion. no one has ever signed a piece of paper like that before. and so they also we don't know, you know, it sounds like openai wants them to convert to equity, and we have no idea whether they're willing to do that or not. and i think

all of the things that happen on the field, whether it's sam talking about agi coming and now he's backing off of that or this announcement, i think they're all chess moves in a much bigger game in terms of them trying to figure out that relationship. >> this beef between altman and musk, i'm assuming, you know both personalities reasonably well. are you all just sitting out there with popcorn in hand, wondering what what's going on and where this is all going? >> i mean, like, i like i said, it's better than an episode of succession. i think it's super interesting and nothing we've ever seen before. and we've moved to this world where these types of executives have this active voice on x, which gives us, you know, this kind of real time view into it. but it's ultra interesting. obviously, they've had a much closer relationship than i've ever had with either one of them. right. and that that obviously is frayed. >> but i mean, it seems to be at least partly centered on

openai's ambition to morph from a not for profit into a for profit entity. obviously elon has. obviously, elon has competing interests with his own. xai. yeah, you've. >> been those came after that beef was kind of uncovered. right. and you can imagine like you you've done well in life. you decide you want to start giving back. you help prop up a nonprofit to solve some type of world problem that you think needs to be out there, and then you turn your back and next thing you know, people are putting billions of dollars in their pocket. i could see how that might upset somebody. >> are you an investor in either open or ex? >> i am, i, i am not. >> neither did did you have the opportunity to and just past. >> i did not i did not okay. >> you've been thinking a lot about ai regulation and what's what's known regulatory capture. now we don't talk about it all that often that that specific,

you know, verbiage, if you will. but you did say at an event some 18 months ago. and i want to quote and get your reaction to this. you said there's a really scary thing in this ai space. the incumbents that are running to meet with the governments or spreading something that i don't think is accurate or fair, they're spreading a negative open source message. and i think it's precisely because they know it's their biggest threat. now, sam altman has obviously said there needs to be more regulation. are you suggesting that he thinks that and is arguing that because it will help him and openai and hurt whatever startup competitors might be there, either now or in the future? >> yeah, i do believe that's the underlying motivation. and there's politico articles that show not only since sbf has any startup put together this amount of, of, of, of a kind of force in washington, dc to try and get their, their, their policy written and people that are investors in that company and

anthropic as well, have been beating the drums trying to get regulation passed. they they helped push through the biden executive order and they're still pushing they're pushing in like 25 different states. we now have a whole bunch of states threatening to do what california tried to do before newsom vetoed it. and so the good news is, from an open source standpoint, i think enough people spoke up. and not just me, many, many other people to push back. and i think there was a wonderful piece that that i'd like to link to that deirdre bosa just did on deep sea. but like the open source performance is right there now. and i don't think you can put the cat back in the bag. >> who do you think is going to win this this whole arms race if there needs to be, you know, one winner. but if we're going to give a gold medal and you're going to have to have a medal stand, who do you think stands to be the best? is it openai? is it what what you know, google is doing gemini meta llama perplexity. how do you see it? >> i mean, i think certainly to

date it's been openai. and keep in mind these companies are doing something that's also unprecedented on the liquidity side. they're giving employees that are two years in secondary stock. so they're winning already. they're putting cash in their pockets. right. and so in some ways they've already won from that standpoint. if you look back at the internet, something really interesting happened. you had at the beginning of the internet. you had every startup developing on sun and oracle. it was the highest performance. you weren't worried about cost optimization, you were worried about being first to market, and you went out and rushed out and bought the best that you possibly could. we may be, and i think deirdre also did a great piece on whether or not we're hitting scaling limits. we may be moving from performance at all costs to the optimization phase of ai, and we will at some point in the future, even if it's not today. and that may mean that there are different companies that are doing different things. it could be positive for open source. it

could be positive for these inference clouds that are working on super high performance inference. it could be positive for non-gpu startups like grok or cerebras, or even google's tpu or amazon's trainium. all those things could be better positioned in an optimization phase than maybe they were in the in the build out phase. >> i'd love to get your view on just, i guess, what you can call this remarkable transformation of silicon valley and its major players, at least from a political standpoint. you saw the pictures like everybody else did, of who had the best seats in the room for the inauguration. and maybe we can show that if we have it, there it is on your screen, you know, a lot of heavyweights, obviously. and then you have, you know, marc andreessen, david sacks, elon musk, they're all now in the room where it happens. i'm curious, your view, because you did say at the same talk i referenced earlier, quote, the reason silicon valley has been so successful is

because it's so effing far away from washington, dc. well, not so much anymore. and the cynics in the room might say, i mean, silicon valley doesn't want washington anywhere near it unless it can be directly helpful to it. how would you respond? >> i would agree with that cynicism, like my talk was about the startup world and, you know, early stage startups and the, the, the problems that regulation could cause in that formation stage. clearly big tech has arrived in washington, and that may actually be bad for startups, right? if they have, they may start to do the type of regulatory capture that has happened in finance and telecom and all these other industries, pharma in america. and so it could it actually could be bad for early stage startups, i think. i think it's good for a few things. it's obviously good for crypto. there had to be some weight on crypto stocks that had

to do with regulatory risk, and i don't think they could have imagined a better outcome than they just got in the past 48 hours. it could be good for m&a. m&a has been really quiet, and people anticipate that that door will open. i don't know if it will be good for ipos. there's something broken with the ipo market, and i have no idea if paul atkins is aware of that or wants to fix it. >> in terms of what's what's broken. i mean, i understand that, you know, more companies want to stay private for longer. they don't need the access to capital, i suppose, so desperately as they once did. there's just other sources for it. we just had the largest ipo, i said, down here at the new york stock exchange today, since july. but what needs to be fixed if it if it is in fact broken? >> well, i was going to say, if you look if you look at the ipo count, this may be dollars. if you look at the ipo count, we're way off of any trend line that's ever happened. i would say another thing, which is we used to always talk about the ipo window being open, and it was heavily correlated with the performance of the markets.

well, here the markets are performing just fine. so there's no reason to suggest that the problem with the ipo market is due to the performance of the market itself. so i don't i don't think the window is closed for that reason. it may be because of what you talked about. i think that certainly a part of the problem i personally and i've been on this for a long time, think that the lack of efficiency in how the ipo market works is a huge part of the problem. if you're going to underprice every ipo by 30% and there's a super active liquid private market, you're just going to get outbid. there's going to be no reason to go to public market because it's more expensive than the private market. >> you know. now i remember i mean, you and brad gerstner and i went deep on that on one of my visits out to, to the bay area. so your points are well heard. it leads me to, you know, brad, when i was last out there, revealed that he had sold uber, in which you were an early investor, obviously. and one of the reasons, because he now

thinks that tesla has such a huge advantage in full self-driving. i'm curious as to how you view those two stocks, specifically uber, whether you're still an investor in that name, whether you would be, and just how you view it overall based on what you know, you're now. podcasting partner brad gerstner told me the last time i was out there. >> yeah, yeah, i am still a shareholder and i'm been been super both appreciative and impressed with what dara has done in the ceo role. it's clear that that one of the questions about the stock is now tied to self-driving. i would i would offer a few points to think about. one, the overall market is still growing. i think the move that it takes for people to move from car ownership from three cars to two, 2 to 1, is a very slow process, and the awareness of uber and lyft, it just keeps unlocking. i think this is a market that's going to see ten, 15% growth for ten, 15 more years, because we've been

so obsessed with car ownership, and now people can start to think about what it means to not have it. the other thing about autonomy is if you're going to build a fleet, i always say this you're going to build to peak or average, and both of them are bad answers. if you build the peak, most of your cars are sitting around. so utilization rate drops to the floor. if you build the average, you're never available exactly when people need you the most. and so i don't think autonomous alone works. obviously, one of the approaches that uber is taking is partnering with all the different autonomous makers. i personally think the right move in this was, i think, the right move many years ago, but still today would have been for uber to help lead an open source movement here to help commoditize the autonomous car. we've watched meta do that in ai extremely well just just here in the past four years. and i think that's the better playbook. they're not operating that right now. >> i'd like to ask you one more

question, and i'm not sure if you're an investor or were in bytedance or not, but how do you think this whole tiktok saga ends? >> well, my, my own interpretation of what went down recently is, is, is the following. you know, president trump is notorious for being a deal maker, right? and he saw an asset that was about to evaporate. and if it evaporates, i'd say most of the value goes to meta, maybe a little bit of snap. right. like that's where all those people are going to move. and so it's like, oh wait, there's an asset. let's not let it go away. let's see if we can trade it for something i've never heard of, of putting equity on the on the us balance sheet. i'm open to how that might play out. i think when we bailed out goldman and united like that's what we should have done then i think we have done it in the past with banks. but we'll see. i think based on my

interpretation of the law, he's really only got 90 days, and the company had plenty of days before that to do the exact kind of thing they would need to do now to get around the law. so i don't know what's new, other than he's going to stir up a lot of debate conversations. >> to say the least. i liked our conversation very much. it's good to have you back, bill. take care. we'll talk to you soon. >> great to see you. take care. >> you as well. that's bill gurley of benchmark. up next, bank of america's jill carey hall is revealing her outlook hall is revealing her outlook for the ♪♪ amazing. jerry, you've got to see this. i've seen it. trust me, after 15 walks, it gets a little old. ugh. stop waiting. start investing. e*trade ® from morgan stanley. that moment you walk in the office and people are wearing the same gear, you feel a sense of connectedness and belonging right away. and our shirts from custom ink help bring us together. we make it easy to wow all your groups with high quality custom apparel and promo products, all backed by our guarantee at customink.com.

>> michael and i founded origin investments in 2007 because belr fee structures, managers with skin in the game and institutional quality real estate. >> it's why we created our all weather income plus fund. >> designed to blend income appreciation and tax efficiency. it can help put you on the path to financial freedom. >> build the future you deserve with origin investments. >> when you use point me, you need fewer points for every trip, like 50 to 90% less than your credit card travel portal. so a round trip flight to italy that may have cost 150,000 points drops to just 35,000

points for the same exact flight. search with point me. >> here you go. >> is there any way to get a better price on this? >> have you checked single care? whenever my customers ask how to get a better price on their meds, i tell them about single care. it's a free app accepted at pharmacies nationwide. >> before i pick up my prescription, i always check the single care price. >> it's quick, easy, and totally free to use. >> single care can literally beat my insurance copay. >> you just search for your prescription and show your prescription and show your single care coupon at the you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean. not spreadsheets... you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. our matching platform lets you spend less time searching and more time connecting with candidates. visit indeed.com/hire night. one second, i use rinse, wash, rinse. the company that will pick up, wash, fold, and

deliver your laundry and dry cleaning at the touch of a button. i do not. >> trust other. >> people with my laundry. rinse guarantees your satisfaction. i've been using it for months now with no issues. okay, let's watch this. wait, i'm gonna do watch this. wait, i'm gonna do my laundry. better hur at pgim, finding opportunity in fixed income today, helps secure tomorrow. our time-tested fixed income suite, backed by over 145 years of risk experience, helps investors meet their goals. pgim investments. shaping tomorrow today. we've reduced our china exposure from 50 to 25%, and we've been working to reduce it even further. >> it cannot be about removing all the rules. it's about all of us operating together. >> the partnership with openai to us is a critical partnership. we love it. it's working. >> if you use the us estimates of how much. power we're going to need, we're talking trillions

of dollars. and it's all for data centers. it's all for ai. >> we're back. s&p 500 hitting a record high earlier today before turning lower. meantime the russell 2000 still well off its own november peak. here to share her own outlook for the small cap space is b of a global research head of us small and mid-cap strategy, jill carey hall. it's good to see you again. >> thanks for having me. >> all right. a lot of people think this might be your moment. i don't know. you tell me. >> well, i think this is going to be a year where you want to own mid-caps over small. i think it's still a tough backdrop for the russell 2000. and, you know, the profits growth recovery story that that a lot of investors were bullish on last year. that's just continued to get revised down, pushed out further into 2025. so small cap profits have continued to disappoint. and you know you've still seen negative year over year earnings growth in that size segment. the fundamentals have been better in mid-cap. so if we do see a market that broadens out we think mid-caps

are actually the size segment that could offer the best risk reward, especially if you're now in an environment where multiple rate cuts have gotten priced out of the market. our economists are expecting the fed stays on hold from here and doesn't cut any further. so small caps obviously have a lot of refinancing risk. and that risk has has sort of reemerged as as you know, the rate risks have gone up. so midcaps have have better balance sheets, better fundamental trends. so that's where where we would position, you know, within small and mid. >> so it still matters. rates still matter more than anything else. because i was going to sa, with all the optimism around the economy going forward and policies from trump 2.0. if not now, when. right. we've been waiting and waiting and waiting for some sort of sustainability from this space. sure, we've seen great moves, but they've been short lived, right? >> i mean, i think, you know, after we've seen this, this decade of underperformance for small cs, you know, historically speaking, we're due for an outperformance cycle. and that's what relative valuations

would suggest. so i do think if you have a longer time horizon, you know, over the next decade, which is when valuations tend to be the most predictive that small caps could offer, the best price returns of the size segments over over the next decade. but, you know, this year, i think there's sort of after all the underperformance, it's a high bar for investors there. they're sort of nervous about jumping back into small caps. i think there's definitely optimism there. optimism around the economy, optimism. if we see deregulation. but the profit story, you know, i think we'd like to see a more convincing turn. and, you know, rates stabilizing or, you know, perhaps if cuts get put back on the table, you know, those would be be beneficial for small caps. the fed and expectations have been one of the biggest drivers of the rallies and the sell offs that we've seen in the russell over the past year. december was the worst relative month for small caps versus large that we had seen in over 25 years, and a lot of that was right after the more hawkish fed meeting. so i

do think there's a lot of opportunities still within domestic mid caps. and so i really think this is a year where you want to be selective and it's going to pay to be selective rather than just owning a benchmark. if you can own small, smaller mid caps that have, you know, profits, less leverage, less refinancing risk or economically sensitive, i think those are well positioned. i think pockets of the market are certainly going to benefit from from the backdrop that we're seeing, if there is deregulation, if there is an m&a pick up. so financials look well positioned in our work and just simply owning stocks that are seeing estimates go up rather than down has been one of the best, you know, factors within small and mid caps recently. >> we'll talk to you soon joe thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. >> up next, the biggest movers into the close christina is back with that. tell us what you see. >> loves algorithm. >> paying off as one dating app sees its shares double in a year and chip makers hit a bumpy road. details after this short

break. >> the bond report is brought to you by pimco, a global leader in active fixed income. bear mutual protects municipal bond investments, providing an added layer of security to improve your portfolio with guaranteed income. invest with confidence. income. invest with confidence. build - [narrator] this is my coffee shop. we just moved into a bigger space, brought on another employee, and ordered new branded gear for the team. it was so easy. i just chose my products, added our logo, and placed my order. bring your own team together with custom gear. get started today at customink.com.

>> and. >> meet edible garden symbol. >> edible on the nasdaq. a leader in fresh and sustainable. better for you food production just announced an loi to merge with europe's narayan group, a game changing merger that would make their products available in over 75,000 stores globally, projecting 2025 combined revenue of $60 million in a market expected to grow to $241 billion by 2028. edible garden on the nasdaq undiscovered until now. stock symbol edible.

>> every day i'm reading extensively. >> i'm checking the markets throughout the trading session, working the phones, talking to sources and doing my own reporting to share insights, reporting to share insights, information, a

i'm not happy with the way that pg&e handled the wildfires. yeah. yeah. i totally, totally understand. we're adding a ton of sensors. as soon as something comes in contact with the power line, it'll turn off so that there's not a risk that it's gonna fall to the ground and start a fire. okay. and i want you to be able to feel the improvements. we've been able to reduce wildfire risk from our equipment by over 90%. that's something i want to believe. [skateboard sounds] scan the code now and ask about the bosley guarantee. >> about ten from the bell back to christina. now for the stocks that she's watching. hi there grinder. >> hi. by the way, grinder is on fire up over 6.5% today, with shares more than doubling just in the last year. the company's full year revenue target getting a bump thanks to growing

subscriptions and ad revenue. it's also smoothing out its warren structure, which could ease investor concerns about potential share dilution. and it's actually up almost 8%, i should say. texas instruments ceo warning on the earnings call last night that they, quote, haven't seen the bottom yet in core auto and industrial chip markets. other issues weighing on the semiconductor maker, gross margin pressures, lower qanon earnings per share guide and increasing inventory shares down 7% scott. >> all right. thank you very much. that's christina partsinevelos still ahead. novo nordisk shares are jumping in today. we'll explain why in the markets next. >> hey. >> thinking about retirement. would you like to have retirement income that you can count on for the rest of your life? how about up to 33% more income? call this number to get

this free book annuity do's and don'ts for baby boomers. this book is filled with valuable information uncovering little known secrets to help you maximize your income in retirement and its free retirement income. you can count on starts by calling for this free book. as a bonus, we'll also rush this annuity rate report. also, absolutely free annuity national researched numerous products and summarize the rates and benefits of annuities from foremost insurance companies like nassau life and annuity call for both these free books. annuity national retirement income you can count on for the rest of your life. call now for your free books. call 800 211 4470. that's 800 211 4470 800 211 4470. >> people everywhere are losing weight with life. md. >> and i'm keeping it. >> off with the life md maintenance program. >> our approach is simple. we pair weekly shots with world

class providers and a maintenance program for lasting success. lose up to 20% of your weight and keep it off with life. md. get started today and see your eligibility for a co-pay as low as $0 at lifemd.com/tv. >> your hard earned savings could be losing value with low interest rates every day, every week, every month. why wait another moment? with raizen, you can connect to over 70 banks and credit unions to find the best rates, all with one login. don't let another day slip by. take control of your savings with raizen and make every dollar and every day count. visit raizen com to learn more. that's razon. com.

>> with the fundrise flagship fund, you can invest in the same kind of real estate investments that empower the world's largest portfolios for decades, from properties generating income today to developments appreciating for tomorrow, our billion dollar fund is designed to bring balance to your portfolio, helping you grow your wealth year after year. start growing your real estate portfolio today with the fundrise flagship fund. >> ready for the big meeting? >> i have to write this project plan. >> i just need to reply to 40 emails. >> every day. your team gets sucked into endless writing tasks and every day hours disappear for everyone except pam. hey pam, because pam uses grammarly's ai to write in a few clicks, not a few hours. it's one seamless experience everywhere, and it works for the whole enterprise. that's why 70,000 teams trust grammarly.

>> it was lost in the dock. >> grammarly for business enterprise. ready? >> i try coming up next. novo shares jumping on some critical obesity drug data. the details inside the market zone. next. >> in today's always on world, even a moment of downtime can cost your business big. at americaneagle.com, we provide 24 over seven 365 monitoring and support for your applications across all cloud platforms. affordable, customized solutions that work as an extension of your team. we do this all the time. let us handle the risks so you can focus on what matters most. we'll keep your cloud running so you don't have to contact americaneagle.com today for an audit of your cloud environment. >> here you go. >> is there any way to get a better price on this? >> have you checked single care? whenever my customers ask how to get a better price on their meds, i tell them about single care. it's a free app accepted at pharmacies nationwide. >> before i pick up my prescription, i always check the

single care price. >> it's quick, easy, and totally free to use. >> single care can literally beat my insurance copay. >> you just search for your prescription and show your single care coupon at the pharmacy. >> so i just show the coupon and get this price. >> that's right. go to single care.com and start saving today. >> despite the big gains for the banks this week, their stocks have quite a bit more upside because those earnings explosions, all they did was make the price to earnings make the price to earnings multiples lower than we think. ♪♪ with fastsigns, create factory grade visual solutions

to perfect your process. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement™. gina costa... looking simply stunning... what's this? she's opening her fidelity app.... to buy that stock... with no fees or commissions... because what does gina got? gina's got the look. that never gets old. talk about easier investing. granger for the ones who get it granger for the ones who get it done. at pgim, finding opportunity in fixed income today, helps secure tomorrow. our time-tested fixed income suite, backed by over 145 years of risk experience, helps investors meet their goals. pgim investments. shaping tomorrow today. ♪♪ well would you look at that?

jerry, you've got to see this. i've seen it. trust me, after 15 walks, it gets a little old. ugh. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! unbelievable. stop waiting. start investing. e*trade ® from morgan stanley. >> we're in the market zone. cnbc senior markets commentator mike santoli. >> here to break down the crucial moments of the trading day. angelica peebles on a major win for novo. that's where we'll start. give us these details if you would angelica and why novo shares are on the move. >> yeah scott. so today novo sharing some promising early data for one of its next generation obesity drugs. that drug, a nicotine, helping people lose up to 22% of their body

weight. and that puts it on par with lilly's bound. and the total could go even higher. as as novo continues to study this drug over a longer period of time. now, there are some caveats. this is an early stage, phase one two study. and so there was only 125 people in here. and novo at this point is not telling us too much about the side effects. just saying that it's in line with what we've seen with other glp ones. but that's a key question going forward for all these next generation obesity drugs. and of course, this is a much needed win for novo after what's been a pretty rough few months. they've had some setbacks, some disappointments in their pipeline, and that stock has not done too well. so now this is a much needed win for them scott. >> all right. yep. angelica. thank you very much. angelica peebles with the latest on novo shares today. mike santoli sitting next to me. we'll go into the weekend here. are you feeling pretty good about where we are overall. generally good about. >> how the market responded over the last two weeks to what was really kind of an internal washout. and so we got oversold sentiment, got a little bit

concerned, and we managed to capitalize on that. so to me that's the first test. as yields come in, can the market actually find its footing and get back to the highs. it did in fact in the last few minutes here we're also kind of perking up a little bit toward that 6100 level second day after a new high. you don't want it to fall below the old high. that was 69. so all to the good. i don't think it was the most assertive, high momentum buying binge. it was much more about hey, we're getting back on trend. and that makes a lot of sense. tactically speaking. there's a bunch of little short term gaps underneath this market just on a technical basis, because this move higher in the last ten days has been kind of jerky. so 60, 50, 59, 50 wouldn't be that shocking. to back up today is also really about nvidia. you have more stocks up than down today. and nvidia is having a little bit of a rethink on the ai hardware story. >> i mean we have to brace. let's not forget. look, we're only a handful of days into the second trump administration. don't know exactly the schedule of when things are going to come down. we're still presumably waiting on tariffs. maybe we

need to react to some things next week. on top of that, you have the megacap earnings. so it could be full this week. >> and i do think that's the direction of risk when it comes to policy influence. we're priced for a pretty good scenario right now. we're priced for no immediate punitive tariffs. and i think if the market goes searching for something to get concerned about or have an excuse to back off a little bit, it's not going to be hard to find it when, you know, when we're talking about, you know, trying to get greenland and, you know, kind of having a lot of these kind of rapid fire and sort of erratic policy moves. now, most of it's not that relevant to the business outlook or the tax structure or anything like that. so it's fine. but i do think that you have to be aware that we do have that influence that could, in fact create an excuse for volatility that we've just not seen the last couple of weeks. >> got to watch the dollar, which is getting a little bit of a break today. but it's been a big story as well. so has crude oil. yes president. >> dollar is definitely a tariff

trade as well as of course the fed trade which we're going to get next week as well. yeah. >> yeah. and we don't really expect anything but you never know. i mean the commentary is more valuable than the move in this case. >> a lot. >> of questions. yes. >> good weekend. you might. >> and certainly all of you, as the bell rings, will go out. and i'll see you on the other side into overtime with morgan and john. >> well, that bell marks the end of regulation for the week. new york cares during the closing bell at the new york stock exchange, se doing the honors at the nasdaq. and stocks taking a pause from their climb to record highs, but still going out with solid gains for the week. that's the scorecard on wall street, but winners stay late. welcome to closing bell overtime i'm jon fort with morgan brennan. >> well the tech sector wrapping up a strong week. but the action really heats up next week when tesla, microsoft, meta and apple all report earnings results. we're going to talk to investor dan niles about his expectations ahead of those key prints. >> and it's the ipo market back. it was a big day for public

listings as venture globalad