>> good morning, everybody, and. welcome back to squawk box. >> or. >> welcome to squawk box. if you. >> weren't with us yesterday this. >> is cnbc. >> and we are live from the nasdaq market. >> site. >> in times square. i'm becky. >> quick along with joe kernan and. >> andrew ross sorkin. >> here we go. it's a tuesday. u.s. equity futures at this hour are in the red. dow futures down by about 100 points below fair value. nasdaq futures off by just over 100 points. the s&p futures down by about 22. let's take a look at what's been happening with treasury yields. you'll see right now that. >> the ten. >> year is sitting above 4.5%. >> 452 the two. >> year is a little higher as well. it's at 428. and then you have gold hitting a record high. it settled above $2,900 for the first time yesterday. this morning, sitting at $2,929.50 an ounce. you've also got other

metals that were trading sharply higher yesterday, too. copper saw its highest settle since may of 2024, and you had. >> the. >> best day for the metals and mining stocks in three months, probably in large part because of the tariffs that we've heard. >> coming. >> from president trump that will kick in in march. >> meantime. >> aluminum, i should point out and steel. >> we can talk about. >> the other. >> soap opera. >> happening in tech. elon musk leading a group of. >> investors offering to buy. >> control of openai for $97.4 billion. an attorney for musk confirming to cnbc that they submitted that. >> offer just. >> yesterday, saying, quote, it's time for openai to return to the open source, safety focused force for good that it once was. the consortium includes musk. >> his startup. >> xai, and longtime investors including ron baron of baron capital, joe lonsdale of abc, an investment. vehicle led. >> by endeavor ceo. >> ari emanuel, among others. now, in a post on x, openai ceo sam altman said, no thank you,

but we will buy twitter for $9.7 billion if you want. >> they moved the. >> decimal .9.74. >> and then 97.4. >> and then musk replied, swindler earlier this morning. altman spoke to cnbc at the artificial intelligence action summit. >> i think it's to slow down a competitor and try to catch up with his thing, but i don't really know. >> yeah, but you know. >> well. >> right. >> i to. >> the degree anybody does. musk has been publicly feuding now with altman, is suing openai, accusing it of violating antitrust violations to try to keep it from converting into a for. profit corporation. and i. just will say, having spent an enormous amount of time on the phone. >> with various. >> lawyers yesterday trying to understand what's going on here. >> a hostile. >> takeover of a not. >> for profit. >> even though there's a for profit entity a is a very unusual thing, because any board

member wouldn't necessarily have to sell you anything for on some kind of fiduciary basis. it's just a different kind. of vehicle. and two, the company is currently valued at $157. and potentially, if masa comes in with his next slug of money, could. >> be valued. >> at close to $300 billion. so how you think you could show up with $100 billion. the whole thing. and so i don't i actually am a little bit in terms of trying to understand what's going on here in agreement with sam's analysis there, which is, is this just, you know, anytime that sam altman and this team has to spend more than zero seconds a day worried about, i. >> mean, either a lawsuit. >> or something. >> else. >> i don't i don't understand all of it. but i will say, i thought that his. offer for 97.4 billion was to try and buy control of the nonprofit. correct entity coming into this. >> right. >> i but. >> it sounded like and this is

just from. >> my reading of the new. >> york times and other. >> places. >> it sounded like. >> this could be. >> confounding in both california and in delaware. >> delaware. >> where the. company is founded. because if the nonprofit board chooses to take less money, that. >> that could raise issues. >> that regulators could. >> then get. >> involved with and say, you can't do that. you can't. hose basically the not for profit by taking a lower offer than the. whatever offer exists. >> or goes through. >> i don't understand it either. >> it sounds. >> like it. could be complicating, but even. >> the new york times. >> said this. >> shows that elon musk understands the weaknesses in in this situation, and that authorities in california are already concerned. about the not for profit. transition transitioning. >> into a for. >> profit right. >> when you. >> get to the for profit. >> part is when it gets. >> but right. >> this second, in this particular moment right now, as a not for profit, given the charter that they've set up,

it's unclear what kind of. fiduciary duty they have to any of anybody except. >> what they. >> would say is humanity. now, he would say that they're scoundrels and whatever scammers or whatever his line is. so i don't know. >> well. x i. >> is behind, right? i mean, right. >> and that's what that's what altman is saying, is they want to just buy us because they can't figure out a way. >> to actually. create or throw a wrench in the works so. >> they. >> can catch up. >> catch up. >> what's twitter really what twitter is worth? you pointed. out it's. >> worth more than 20. >> yeah, i mean it's closer. >> to 30 billion probably. and that's before anything. >> probably 2028. >> is what i've seen on the. >> most recent. >> so valuations. >> for it. >> look bloomberg. >> had an. >> extended interview with altman this morning on. >> the sidelines of. that conference in france. and altman was even more lashing out. >> at. >> well, no, he was lashing out even more. >> i mean, elon is a smart. and i mean, it's good to see two smart >> going at. >> each other. >> they don't like. >> each other. well, he. >> said he said.

>> the reporter from bloomberg asked him, do you think that this is coming from a position of insecurity? and he snapped back with something like, i think. >> his entire. >> worldview is coming from a. position of insecurity, right. which was. >> i mean, two. >> amazing. >> brilliant geniuses. >> yes. >> it's kind of fun to watch. president trump. >> has ordered. >> 25% tariff on steel and aluminum imports. that's an increase from his previous 10% rate. he also eliminated country specific exemptions that allowed those metals to enter duty free. duty free. >> i love the duty. >> free shop. duty free from canada, mexico. >> brazil. >> south korea and others. the president outlined the rationale for the move yesterday. >> protecting our steel and aluminum industries is a must. and today i'm simplifying our tariffs and steel and aluminum so that everyone can understand exactly what it means. it's 25% without exceptions or exemptions. and that's all

countries, no matter where it comes from. all countries, if made in the united states, however, nited states of america there is no tariff is zero. so if it's made in the united states there is no tariff. all you have to do is make it. in the united states, we don't need it from another country. >> there's new rates. >> going. to take. >> effect in march. then overnight, the president of the european commission vowed to retaliate. she also said unjustified tariffs would trigger, in her words, firm and proportionate countermeasures. let's take a look at the shares of some steel and aluminum producers. you can see all up in after hours up more than a percentage point. president trump also has pledged some reciprocal tariffs on. companies that have tariffs on u.s. goods. he said he planned to announce a very sophisticated plan for those tariffs later this week. >> that sound bite that we just. >> played. >> if you listened a little bit beyond that, he got into the

idea of if you make it here, there are going to be no tariffs, which is an argument, he said, for why canada should be the 51st state, that they would then have no tariffs, they would have to pay. >> on any of these things. >> so you hear. >> the same themes that that come up again and again. in addition to tariffs, president trump also ordering the justice department to provide revised. reasonable enforcement guidelines for the foreign corrupt. practices act. that's a 47 year old statute that forbids u.s. companies from bribing foreign officials to win business. the white house. says that the law. puts u.s. firms at a disadvantage to overseas rivals. because. >> they can't engage in practices that are common among their foreign competitors. >> it sounds so good, but it's so bad it hurts the country, and many, many deals are unable to be made because of it. nobody wants to do business because they don't want to feel like every time they pick up a phone, they're going to jail. so we'll sign this. >> you can't bribe, you can't

win. the white house said that it would review cases currently under investigation. >> we were talking. >> about those. yeah. >> i can remember it was i don't remember it. like i had a flashback to when we were arguing about. i don't even know if it might have been long enough where it wasn't us. but we're talking about the way things are done in mexico for some. >> company, a telecom maybe. >> i'm not sure what it was. and if you don't know. >> vaguely. >> coming back. yeah. if you don't down there at the time, it wasn't even called a bribe. it was just if you want to either don't come down here and try and compete or learn how to learn the way business is conducted down there. i think it's still like that in a lot of countries around the world. you know, there's a real world where where the united states and we hold our head high and we don't do anything right, and we try and set an example. and then there's the real world where things aren't quite as clear cut in terms in terms of black and white. we all i always think, you know, cut the corners, let's go, let's win. let's do whatever

is necessary. i think, you know, we've had this discussion. >> well. >> so okay, now now i'll make it complicated. you could argue and i'm not making a political argument. you could argue that usaid is basically a massive. soft power bribing machine. right? that's what it is. you're bribing the. >> rest of. >> the world. >> it might be totally ineffective. >> we don't know. >> i mean, i sometimes think to myself, we all have no idea. but there's part of me that imagines that, you know, somebody said, we'll do a deal, we'll help you in iraq for this and that, you know. >> could you help. >> us get sesame street? i don't know, i mean, look, the point is like, there's going to be a lot of these things hopefully had a trade. maybe there wasn't a trade, which is a problem. but you actually if you're going to be doing it, you want. that's what. >> even in that world, there's probably bribes that are worth doing. >> bribes and bribes that. >> aren't worth it. >> where you're sure. and we need to figure we need to get to the bottom of that. >> you think about somebody like condoleezza rice, former secretary of state, has. >> always said. >> she said, that you have to have leverage when you're

negotiating with anyone, and you want to do that both from not a carrot and stick, but from a stick and leverage, like the military on one shoulder, she's always said. and the idea of economic potential and force. >> on the other. >> so here's the conundrum. >> yeah. >> as an american, well, particularly the american part, just as a journalist, you like transparency. you think transparency is good if you're in the bribery business? actually, transparency is bad. no. meaning you're not going to be as you're not going to be as good a briber if it's all transparent. >> right? >> right. >> that's just the way it is. so i. >> don't even though i'm glad to be seeing all of these numbers in one way, i'm also conscious, which i'm not sure everybody else is, that if you put all these numbers out there, it creates its own conundrum. >> mcc has insomnia michelle caruso cabrera is up. it was one of the executives down in mexico trying to figure out how to expand walmart and to get construction of any walmart's

down there. you had to go to the local. and if you don't you're not build a walmart down there. and i was saying, you know, you're in mexico. i mean. let's smell the coffee, smell the mexican. oh, yeah. good memory for her. and, you know, i had the deja vu. yeah. and i was thinking about as well. all right. >> an update. >> right now. >> on the buyout offer for federal workers. >> yesterday. >> a federal judge. said that the trump administration's deferred resignation program would remain paused pending a ruling on its legality. the deadline has been moved to 11:59 p.m. last night after an initial ruling last week. it's now on hold until the judge rules. a spokeswoman for the office of personnel management said last week that the federal agencies could still process the resignations. >> and said. >> that 65,000 people had taken them up on that offer. >> i'm looking she's got all the, you know, there's $137

million walmart agree to pay to resolve foreign corruption, corruption, foreign corruption down there. it's that's really need a different name for it. coming up, earnings and fed testimony on today's agenda. the squawk planners next and later house majority leader steve scalise is going to join us. we'll be right back. >> it's not if the markets will turn. it's win at howard capital management, our. proprietary family of funds. >> actively navigates complex market landscapes while seeking to safeguard your tomorrow. we aim to empower investors, delivering opportunities with a tactical mathematical approach. start investing with confidence today. contact your. financial advisor. >> and see how howard. capital management can redefine your fund. >> experience. >> buying a car is kind of a big deal. there's like a million options and you deserve something you love. at cargurus, we get it. as the number one

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note, but earnings season will continue. we're going to hear from coca cola, autonation and marriott all before the opening bell. then after the closing bell, we're going to hear from aig, doordash and lyft. fed chair jay powell will deliver his semiannual monetary policy report to the senate banking committee. you can watch that live or not, but it's on cnbc at at 10 a.m. eastern. what do you think? well, you got your dvr. all set. right. >> does anybody. >> have popcorn? >> popcorn. >> i'm setting up the couch. >> you put the fake butter on, or. i think that's out of my life forever. well, joining us now with more on the markets, christopher roan, strategic partner and chief market strategist. you're not very excited at all, right. we're turning. we're we're turning, we're turning. and there are some groups that you'd say, would you call them unenviable because they're on there looking like not so healthy. and other groups look a little bit better. but it's all market internals at

this point. overall 6000 to 6100. but we could be here for a while given the political backdrop. is that is that what's called? >> i think that's right, joe. >> and we have been here for a while. we've been here since the second week of november. >> how about the s&p. >> by the way? >> yeah. this is a. >> market that's been. >> churning under the surface. >> there are certainly the strong parts here. the financials and the banks have continued to accelerate in spite of it all. i think that's certainly important to note. credit conditions remain remarkably benign here. so i don't think the credit markets are really seeing anything too ominous or sinister out there. but then you juxtapose that with, frankly, tech has lost relative leadership here in a pretty meaningful way. and that's not a new story. i mean, tech peaked relative to the s&p back in july. so we're six, seven, eight months into that that leadership change, the autos and the housing stocks. i think it's notable they haven't really responded to bond yields moving lower. so it is a very very split tape under the surface. not uncommon in a new term for the market to turn those first 100 days. >> so we're. >> working through that. >> i think. >> the big tells here. does

credit deteriorate from here? i think if credit begins to deteriorate, it raises the prospect that maybe there's something more sinister playing out under the surface. >> so if we get above 100 days, this is typical. after an inauguration, if we get above the 6100 area or resistance, what do you watch then? what do you want? you want a broadening. you want it to go back to tech? >> well, i think. >> importantly, what we need to see and what's been anemic for basically 6 or 7 months is the momentum under the surface. we have not seen that big expansion in new highs. we have not. seen the broadening out. i think if you're going to really believe a breakout above 6125, that can carry you with some runway to 64 6500, you need to see the momentum. the internals really start to improve. i think importantly, as all this has gone on, though, we have not lost the financials. that is so key for us here where if something really nasty is out there, i can't imagine goldman or morgan stanley or bank of america would be making new highs. and not just the us ones. i mean, look at the european banks. they continue to work

here. the japanese banks continue to work. so whatever this market is dealing with and has been for the last couple of months, it doesn't seem to be a financial issue, which i think is a really key point. >> meaning you don't think it's an economic issue or a weakness in consumers or businesses. >> yeah. and you know, becky, i think one of the things that's. >> also along these lines. despite this kind of. risk off tone or. >> tape. >> the last. >> few months consumer staples have done nothing here. so if you're looking to staples to be the market's messaging that the economy is on the cusp of some meaningful slowdown, you certainly. haven't seen it through those stocks. i mean, aside from tobacco, which is basically one name, the staples have been off the playing field and remain off the playing field. we like to watch the discretionary versus staples pairing. we equally weighted. so it's not amazon versus walmart i mean that continues to make. >> new highs. >> i mean that. >> i think has. >> been as good of a market. tell on how it perceives the economy as almost anything out there. that largely. remains in nice hands. >> so you claim i can't confirm, but you claim you've been bullish on gold for two years. so we're seeing a breakout and

you actually say that. who would have thought that the pet rock, which is a good word for gold i hear it used for, for bitcoin people call it a beanie baby or a pet rock. but gold really is a beautiful, full, distinctive type of rock of an element, right? it's a pet rock, but it's outperformed in your view. i represented by the q-q-q. there's some ai that's outperforming. >> but sure. but i just think. >> it's. >> pretty remarkable. there have been two stories. >> running. >> parallel at the same time. you have the ai story, the tech story, the qs, which have been dominant for a long time. gold has been just as good. if you look at gold versus qs over the last month three months, six months, one year, two years. gold's actually been better. so that's not to diminish what nvidia has done or what tech has done. >> i think it's to emphasize. >> there's been this parallel macro story as expressed through gold, that's been just as important in. this environment. >> so for trennert who runs your shop, who's going to work for

the trump administration? i mean, does he clean out his office, do the do the does the art come down? does he have like a box where you see the box, is he walking out or is he going to leave everything there? >> i think everyone at this table. >> certainly has known jason for a long time. it's been a privilege of mine to be his partner for 20 years. >> they don't stay. >> there that long when they go there, especially in a trump administration. it could be a mooch. >> you got. >> to sit. you got to save all this stuff. you might as well just leave it. >> where we're leaving. everything exactly. >> oh, you. >> leave it. everything exactly. >> as your childhood bedroom. >> it's like, you know. just leave it. >> but from for people who. >> have known. >> jason for. >> a very. >> long time, i think we can say there's probably no one. >> with a better. >> temperament or intellect to answer the call of service, so. >> i'm very excited. >> for him. me too. me too. >> he'll be back. >> he's great. he will be back. okay. >> so you're not. >> probably not in ten days. >> you did. >> you try to take the corner office? of course not. >> of course not. >> because it's a corner. does he have a corner? >> yes he. >> does. yes. >> i'm sure. >> you know. >> yeah. of course.

>> would you have a corner office? >> you probably do have a corner office. >> a corner. >> office over there. >> you know, none of your offices are corner offices. >> nope. >> this is corner. like this. >> is even corner like. yes. big windows. >> it's even better. >> panoramic. >> okay. thank you sir. >> nice to see you. >> thank you. coming up on the other side of the break, we're going to. >> talk about this activist. >> elliott management doubling down now on its stake in oil refiner phillips 66. we'll bring you details about that after the break. plus bp reporting a big decline in quarterly profit. more on that and so much else at squawk box rolls on this morning. >> on this cnbc program is sponsored by baird. visit baird difference.com. most power players on wall street. rate nvidia a strong buy today. yet why then are so many legendary investors quietly ignoring that advice and instead selling the stock hand over fist? every billionaire on your screen has recently sold nvidia. some have

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>> welcome back. >> to squawk box. >> activist investment management or i should say elliott management has built a more than $2.5 billion stake now in phillips 66. and plans now to push the refiner to consider changes to try to boost. its stock price. among those changes, a spin off of its midstream business that would make money transporting energy. elliott first pushed for changes at that company back in 2023, after disclosing a $1 billion investment in it. they later came to an agreement on a new board member, but it appears that they're back at it. becky. >> we're also. >> watching shares. of bp, the oil major, reporting a sharp drop in fourth quarter profits, citing weaker refining margins. bp announced a $1.75 billion share buyback. some analysts had questioned whether bp would dial back the size of that buyback. the company also. said it's been reshaping its portfolio with strong progress in cutting costs, and that it plans to

fundamentally reset its strategy. bp is set to outline that strategy in a presentation to investors on february 26th. >> over the weekend, reports. >> said elliott management has built a stake in bell, but the company and the hedge fund declined to comment on that. you can see the stock. >> off by. >> about 4/10 of 1% when we come back. democrats are gearing up for a funding fight and potential government shutdown to counter some of president trump's new policies. we've got the details straight ahead. and later, drama in washington over funding for the national institutes of health. doctor scott gottlieb will join us later in the hour. weigh in on what it means. right now, though, as we head to a break, let's take a look at yesterday's s&p 500 winners and losers. for. >> the executive. edge is sponsored by at&t business. next sponsored by at&t business. next level moments need the n

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the chef in all of us. >> good morning and welcome back to squawk box live from the nasdaq market site in times square. that's a futures this

morning. no triple digit pressure, but not really pretty. 85 points on the nasdaq which was up nice yesterday nicely. and the dow was as well. >> well president trump obviously. has hit the ground running in his second term in office. democrats are preparing to use a coming funding battle to try and slow down the barrage of moves from the administration. emily wilkins joins us right now with more. emily, we haven't. heard much from the democrats in the first three weeks. yeah. >> becky, i think. >> they, like. >> many people. >> in d.c, have just been processing everything that the trump administration has done. >> but the fact. >> of the matter is that senate republicans, they're. >> going to need. democrats to help. >> them fund the government. past march 14th. >> and that could. >> give democrats. >> a chance. >> to rebut some of. >> trump's dismantling of agencies. >> like usaid and cfpb. senator andy kim told meet the press over the weekend that it just doesn't make sense for lawmakers to vote on supporting and

funding agencies if trump is just going to shut them down. >> i've worked in government. i've worked through multiple government shutdowns. i would be the last person to want to get to that. >> stage. >> but we are at a point where we are basically on the cusp of a constitutional crisis. seeing this administration taking steps that are so clearly illegal. >> democrats are under pressure from their base to find a way to. >> respond to trump. >> but at the same point, democrats. >> also don't want to be blamed for a shutdown. senate democratic leader chuck schumer. >> said in. >> a. >> letter monday. >> that democrats. >> are ready. >> to support legislation to prevent a shutdown. >> but he also preemptively. >> blamed republicans for any potential stoppage. >> of funds. >> saying, quote, we will use our votes to help steady the ship for the american people in these turbulent times. he added that it is incumbent on responsible republicans to get serious and work in a bipartisan fashion to avoid a trump shutdown. now, currently, top republicans and democrats.

>> are still. >> working on a spending bill. one thing to keep an eye out for is if they are going to try to fund usaid, cfpb and other programs targeted by d.o.j. that got. >> bipartisan support. >> in the past. >> guys. >> emily, this. >> is a pretty risky move politically. if you shut down the government over these issues and then get blamed for the shutdown and it it it's been very obvious that the democrats can't agree on a strategy on how to come. back and present their case on all of these stories, which is why most of the time it kind of ends in silence. we had a democratic senator on last week, and my point to him when we talked to him on tuesday was that monday, no one would come on and answer any of these issues because, again, they still couldn't get their messaging straight. he agreed it's very difficult because the. >> democrats do they have to walk this very. >> fine line. >> where they don't want to be blamed for shutting down the

government, that that's never been. >> their m.o. >> that's never been their the party that tries to keep the government open and criticizes republicans for using shutdown points as leverage. but at the same point, there's a lot of them that feel that they have to do something that what they're seeing from the trump administration is so egregious, so frustrating, so concerning. i think another thing that we're going to be seeing here is exactly how their messaging on this changes or ramps up within the next couple of weeks. i think there's a huge question mark out there as to whether the trump administration starts following some of these court rulings to release funding or to fund certain agencies. it'll be interesting to see to where congressional republicans wind up. i know a few of them were asked last night about the trump administration seemingly ignoring the courts. and, you know, john thune and others made the point that the courts need to be listened to as an equal branch of government. so i think. >> unless. it's about students and unless it's about student loan forgiveness, emily.

>> i mean. there are a. >> couple. >> of things where republicans, they do. >> agree with trump. >> on a number of these moves. i could see them. >> we didn't hear any of this uproar during the biden administration when he ignored the court order after court order, after court order about student loan forgiveness. >> we didn't ignore it. he tried to change his tack. >> every time. he never. >> kept doing it. >> kept doing it. >> kept. >> kept doing it from. >> a different. he kept doing it. and i didn't see anyone in front of any of the washington office building singing we shall overcome and holding hands and all that. i mean, people are laughing at it because it's really the i don't know who got chuck schumer to stand with sort of the radical, the fringe element. and i don't know, he's he's minority minority leader, i guess. right. yeah. yes. i don't know. >> i don't know. it's a it's a point that. >> that republicans. >> bring. >> up about about the student loans. but in terms of the democratic perspective here, i mean, they have very, very few chances to assert any leverage right now in washington, d.c. i mean, this upcoming spending

fight could. >> be really. >> their only. >> chance. >> depending on what republicans decide to do with the upcoming fiscal cliff. if they decide to put that into one of these packages that they can just move on their own, then this is really going to be a singular chance for democrats to try to get something out of this debate. >> all right, emily, thank you. >> okay. >> coming up, the latest. >> twist in a long standing feud between elon musk and openai ceo sam altman. we're going to get into all of it. musk launching what is now maybe a hostile offer is maybe the way to describe it for the ai company, but it's a not for profit. altman, quickly rejecting the altman, quickly rejecting the idea just on its face. we'll this is steve. steve takes voquezna. this is steve's stomach, where voquezna can kick some acid, heal erosive esophagitis, also known as erosive gerd, and relieve related heartburn. voquezna is the first and only fda-approved treatment of its kind.

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of openai, the maker of chatgpt. in a post on x, openai ceo sam altman said no thank you, but we will buy twitter for $9.74 billion if you want. musk replied swindler earlier this morning. altman spoke to cnbc at the artificial intelligence action summit taking place in paris. here's what he had to say about all of it. >> i think it's. to slow. >> down a. >> competitor and try to catch up with. >> his thing, but i. >> don't really know. >> yeah, but you know. >> well. >> right. to the. >> degree anybody does for insights on all this, i want to bring in nicky kristoff, ceo of kristoff and company, a strategic consulting firm based in washington, dc. we've been batting around what is turning into quite the soap opera, nicky, and trying to think through some of the permutations here, which is to say, this is a not for profit organization that obviously has this for profit arm with the potential to try to turn the entirety of it into a for profit firm. eventually, as

part of a new fundraising round. what is the fiduciary duties. >> that the board. >> of directors, which, by the way, i should mention, include people like larry summers have in terms of either to the folks who have invested in openai previously or to the mission, if you will, of. >> the. >> charter of the not for profit version of openai. >> well, good morning. >> thanks for. >> having me. so you're addressing, you know, the. >> unsolvable riddle, which is. >> the governance structure. >> of openai. but i don't. >> think we have to solve the riddle. >> to know. >> as you said, what the. >> board. >> of directors has. >> to do. >> whether it's a nonprofit or a. >> for profit. they have a duty. >> of care and. >> a duty of loyalty to do the best. >> by the organization. >> brett taylor. >> who is the chairman of this board. >> very well respected. >> he worked at meta. he worked at google. he was the co-ceo. >> of salesforce. >> he was also the chair of the. >> board of twitter when elon had a. >> takeover bid of. >> that company. so he's very well positioned to evaluate this bid, and he is required to evaluate it, to take it

seriously. >> so but but the other piece of this. >> so and the question is how seriously do you take it if the company, the for profit portion of the company is already worth $157 billion on its way to $300 billion? how would you take $100 billion seriously? >> well. >> this is the thing, right? >> so what elon. >> is basically doing is. >> throwing sand in the gears of the offer from softbank to invest in the company. so softbank valued it at what 260 billion. elon is undercutting that. but he's doubling the offer. >> of the investment. >> so i mean you're right. this is. >> like sort. >> of a gordian. >> knot of. >> how do you think through. >> the. >> mission and. >> what do. >> they. >> have to do. the truth. >> is these. >> companies, whether they're nonprofit or for profit, we don't know what their. >> finances look like. we don't. >> know what an. >> accurate valuation is. >> what we do know is that this is going. >> to slow down that. >> softbank offer. and it's also. >> a thorn in the. >> side of sam altman. as you can see from the clip you just showed.

>> i'm imagining that there's you know business judgment rule does allow the board i don't want to say to do whatever they want but gives them a lot of latitude. >> yeah i mean they can do whatever they want in a sense, because although they're personally liable, you and i both know almost never are boards of directors held personally liable for what they do. so i think that's right. they have an enormous amount of latitude, but they're also going to have a lot of pressure. elon musk i'm sitting in washington, d.c. he is unbelievably powerful. >> in this. >> moment in time. sam has been coming to washington regularly for the last several months, and they have to take elon seriously. but you're right, they can basically do whatever they want because the likelihood of them having to pay a personal price is super, super low. >> okay, so what. >> are we even talking about then? i mean, the reason i asked that is it seems to me, and maybe i'm wrong. on the face of it, this seems like it's going nowhere fast. >> i think it's going nowhere fast. >> but it's. >> slowing down softbank. >> and it's a huge distraction

for openai. >> you know. >> we've got. >> meta microsoft. >> through openai and google. >> then you. have xai and grok i'm on twitter i don't. >> know if you've. >> ever used grok i've never used the chat bot. this is elon musk's ai. i think he's feeling behind the curve. i think he wants to make a play for openai. but do i think it's serious? i think he's serious, but i don't think it necessarily is something the board can accept. >> by the way, grok is pretty good. we were actually just talking about during the break of the things that have come on. i mean, it's shocking how successful and just how good it is relative to how short a period of time he's been working on it. i wouldn't say it's necessarily at full on chatgpt level, but it's getting there shockingly quickly. well go ahead. >> one thing we don't know is how many people are using it, right? >> there's 600 million. >> people on twitter. how many people. are using grok? we don't. >> know, but. >> elon knows. and so that could be rattling him. you know. >> openai has 300. >> million weekly active users. >> so we don't. >> know how many people you know. i haven't used it. i'll

probably try it after this. but we don't know those numbers. elon does. and he could be a little bit rattled by that. >> nikki finally and we got to run. what do you think the motivation is? interestingly, of all the people who are trying who have gone in on the bid with him and the reason i ask, what's the motivation? it may be to own it. but interestingly, if you talk to a lot of the folks who've spent money investing in things around elon, including x, some of them have said, look, i'm investing in elon, in part because i'm part. i want to be part of the ecosystem, which is to say, i may not make money on one thing, but i want to be able to get into the next round of space x without getting diluted down. and if i. so if i don't get into this thing now, i may not have the other opportunity later. >> i think that's absolutely right. >> he's an. >> ecosystem of companies that make a ton of money. he considers tesla to be an ai company. >> he is. >> in charge of spacex, and i think that's. >> exactly right. >> maybe they don't make money on this deal. >> maybe this. >> deal gets tossed out by brett

taylor and larry. >> summers and. >> the rest of the board, but they are on elon's good side, and that puts them in the catbird seat for other opportunities he's going to have. and again. >> you can't. >> ignore his political position in washington. he's going to have an awful lot of opportunities to make even more dough. so yes, that's what i think they're doing. >> i think you're right. >> nikki, nice to see you. thank you. >> nice to see. >> you, too. >> thanks. as the world turns, i'm sure we'll have you back and we'll continue. thanks. joe lonsdale's, eight vc. by the way, we should mention is one of the investors in musk's consortium. and guess what, folks? he's going to join us tomorrow in the 7:00 hour and we will talk about all of this and so much more with him. squawk box coming right back after this. >> opportunities can be. >> hard. >> to find. >> like catching lightning. >> in a. bottle in. >> uncertain times. >> it's tempting. >> to. >> retreat or simply wait and see. >> at cme. >> group, we empower those who act. >> we deliver. >> tools to help manage risk and. capture opportunities in

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ordering a federal prosecutors to drop the corruption charges against new york mayor eric adams. in a letter to manhattan prosecutors, a doj official justified the decision by saying the mayor's indictment had limited his ability to cooperate in president trump's immigration crackdown, and he said the indictment threatened to interfere with the mayoral primary in june. in the letter, the doj doj said it had not assessed the strength of evidence or legal theories in the case, but criticized the u.s. attorney who brought the case, as well as former president biden. it's an interesting sort of circumstance and twist in all of this because, you know, one of the things that that mayor adams has tried to suggest is that his crackdown on immigration was the reason that this case was brought by democrats. that's sort of they've tried to sort of turn it into a political matter. i would be very curious to hear from the actual lawyers who brought the case and the folks inside the southern district, because i think you'd want you'd want to know, like on the merits of the law rather than this sort

of very strange political theater situation that seems to be emerging. >> when we. >> come back. we are awaiting results from coca-cola. we'll bring you those numbers. and the instant reactions straight ahead. but first, former fda commissioner scott gottlieb will join us to react to a move to slash funding for the nih and how it could impact medical research across the country. squawk box will be right back. >> interactive brokers pays up to 3.83% on instantly available cash in your. brokerage account. how much interest can your bank or broker pay? interactive brokers conservative and prudent risk management uniquely. positions us to pay up to 3.83% on uninvested instantly available cash in your brokerage account. >> the best. >> informed investors choose interactive brokers.

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estimates of 10.7 billion. that's a nice beat. operating margin improved to 24% from 23.1% last year. free cash flow. fell 51% to $4.7 billion. this was, though, due to some payments made to the irs related to an ongoing case. a tax litigation case. unit case volume, by the way, grew 2% during the quarter, led by china, brazil and the united states. for the full year, coca-cola expects organic revenue growth of 5 to 6% and comp comp earnings growth in the range of 2 to 3%, and ceo james quincey will be on squawk on the street at 10 a.m. eastern. in a cnbc exclusive interview. >> a federal judge has temporarily halted the trump administration's directive for the national institutes of health to slash indirect funding for research institutions to 15%. that's a move that could severely impact studies on critical health issues. joining us right now is doctor scott gottlieb, former fda

commissioner, a cnbc contributor. also on the boards of both pfizer and illumina. and, scott, i'm very glad to have you here this morning. there's a lot of information out there, a lot of confusion that's been sown on this. you are someone who served in the trump administration at the fda. so i don't think you're going to be coming at this from a political perspective. what does this mean? this stopping of funding, potentially to the nih and the freezing of funding for administrative costs and others at 15%? >> yeah. >> well, this isn't. >> necessarily a cut in nih funding to reallocation of how that. money gets dispersed. and this relates to a long standing concern among conservatives. and in fact, the trump administration tried to do this back in 2017. and it got rolled back when some academic. >> leaders met with. >> the president. and the white house ultimately decided to rescind the policy. but it relates to indirect expenses. so money from grants. >> that are spent. >> on things like overhead or administrative costs by universities, universities

charge a. >> certain fixed percentage. >> depending on what the institution is and how high their costs are. directly on top of research funding. so let's say a university gets $100 in funding for research from the nih. if a university has an indirect cost of 50%, they'll charge $50 on top of that $100 to help fund things like their buildings, legal costs, compliance costs. and the perception was that this money. >> is being. >> skimmed off of nih research funding that could be going directly to research projects to help support bloated, sometimes bloated infrastructure of universities. that would be the argument of conservatives who have been trying to roll this back for years. and so if in fact, this does go through, and i think some form of this will probably get enacted, this, this announcement that the nih made or the administration made probably will get rolled back. it seems to conflict with existing law that prevents them from doing this. passed in 2024 as part of a budget bill. but i think after this is resolved in the courts, some policy will go forward that starts to sand down

these indirect costs from from the nih funding, and presumably there would be more funding freed up from that that would go directly to research projects and directly to other expenses that fund scientific research and not support the infrastructure. universities and the universities themselves will have to find other ways to support that. >> by the way, the universities. >> do this. >> with private donors as well. i believe it's generally around 15 to 20%. i think it's 2,020% is more the average. i think with nih funding, from what i've read, it averages out around 40%. and i think that's where conservatives feel the issue is like it's not fair to government to be picking up more of the overhead than you would expect from private donors. what what else is happening? just in terms of what doj's efforts are looking to cut back, looking to trim, potentially even shut down other departments. what have you heard from people who are

working in the fda who you used to work with? what about other departments as well, like the cdc? >> yeah. >> well, this policy. >> related to the nih does appear to have come from d.o.j. and probably from omb. i'm not sure that all the policy people in the white house were briefed in on it. and that's another reason why it may get temporarily rolled back again. i think some caps are going to be put in place on indirect costs and probably some allocation for higher costs versus lower costs part of the country. you don't want to create a cap that's so low that you can't do research in an urban setting, for example, where the overhead costs just are higher. i'm hearing that there's going to be some cuts made to broader health agencies, perhaps the fda. i hope they're going to be judicious how they think about doing any kinds of reductions at the fda, given the agency's very important mission, but also cdc, i think cdc is far more vulnerable to cuts and the kinds of things that we saw happen to usaid, because a lot of the money that cdc disperses are

really pass through grants that are given to local public health departments for different kinds of programs. so when you go through those grants, you know, you can find some things that sound silly on the face of it. and so i think it's going to provide a lot of fodder for people who want to make cuts to those grants, skinny down the agency and point out that some of the grants may have been going to things that don't seem like high value use of dollars. in the same way, i think there's been an objective of usaid. so i would say that cdc is probably the most vulnerable right now. you have to differentiate from agencies that spend the money inside the agency to administer important services. and i would put fda in that bucket. fda regulates the blood supply. they regulate livestock feed. they regulate pet food. they regulate the entire food supply, leafy green vegetables. the money gets spent inside fda to fund regulatory programs that people find important, versus agencies like the cdc, where a lot of the money is spent on grants that are pass through, grants given to local public health agencies. and that makes them, i think, more vulnerable to cuts. and

there are rumors and discussions that there's going to be some announcement imminently from d.o.j. about cuts to public health agencies. perhaps they're waiting until after rfk's vote to make sure that he gets through the senate. so they don't encumber that. >> you're you're. >> a conservative. you're a republican. how do you feel about the cuts that are laid out? you were pretty clinical in your in your discussion of it. there are going to be fun things. they find that look wasteful on the face of it. what do you think about the idea of cutting those those agencies? >> yeah. >> look, i think the better approach is to get strong leadership in these agencies and start to reform the agencies from within and reprogram some of that money rather than administer wholesale cuts. that will take out some things that perhaps were excessive, but also going to hit programs that probably were very important. and i think we're seeing that debate play out with usaid. there were a lot of things that they were doing that they probably shouldn't have been doing. there were a lot of things that they were doing that really are critical, critical to global public health. and the

same thing is going to be true of cdc. and so i think if the agency, if the administration took more time, got their leadership in place and started to try to reform these programs and recommend where the cuts should fall, that would be far more efficient process. it would take longer. it'd be probably less immediately satisfying. but i think in the long run it would lead to less consternation, fewer court challenges, certainly, and probably more of a deliberate approach to taking out the bad programs and not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. you know, perhaps they're going to back into that because they're going to get some pushback from the courts and others with respect to these wholesale cuts. they will back into a more deliberate approach. i'll tell you, when i got to fda, there were a lot of grants that we gave that were probably an inefficient use of resources, and we were able to reprogram a lot of that money. it took time, but we were able to make a lot of reforms to how we dispersed money, and i would hope that's what they settle into through this process. >> scott. >> let. >> me ask you quickly. >> avian flu, this.

>> measles outbreak in texas and then the regular flu season, how are we doing on all these fronts? >> the measles outbreak in texas, hopefully they will get control of this is an outbreak in an isolated community that had particularly low vaccination rates because of religious exemptions that that community secured. texas overall has high vaccination rates for measles, mumps and rubella. probably about 94% used to be 97%. it came down, but they're still high and they're still well above the national average. with respect to flu season, we're having a spike in flu post-holidays that's pretty severe. probably the worst flu season that we've seen since 2002. it appears to be h1n1 and h3n2. so a mix of both of those split largely evenly. the vaccine does seem to be protective. the flu vaccine seems to be more protective against h1n1. this is not h5n2. it's not bird flu. >> the public. >> health labs across the country sequenced about 3500 individual cases from patients

over the course of the last week and didn't find a single case of h5n2. and so this is probably just seasonal flu that's having a second spike and a pretty severe spike. hospitalizations are starting to go up in new york city, for example, where it's particularly bad. as much as 30% of all visits to doctors offices are for influenza like illness. and so that's new york city is probably the highest right now in terms of a local region around the country, but the national average is about 8%. in the south it's about 10%. so that's quite high for this time of the year. so we are having a pretty bad flu season. the second spike in flu right now. >> hey scott, since since seattle genetics, i guess pfizer really has tried to shift its focus to oncology in a big way. so i kind of take that back. so i guess third, at this point behind the couple, i don't think of pfizer as, as oncology, but but following seattle genetics, that vaulted it into a much more prominent. i'm just asking you, because you're a board member, obviously, of pfizer.

>> based on the super. >> bowl. >> ad based on the super bowl ad. yeah, yeah. >> look, the company has had a very big platform in oncology prior to the seattle genetics acquisition and a very strong program in bispecific antibodies and small molecules. the seattle genetics acquisition certainly gives it an important new platform. these antibody drug conjugates, which have become important in the treatment of cancer, particularly in conjunction with immunotherapy. so they're they're a big platform right now. and the company is clearly making a big effort to pivot into oncology and use the resources that they've acquired over recent years to make investments in cancer. >> doctor gottlieb. >> thank you. >> thanks a lot. >> it is. >> just after 7 a.m, about 706 right now on the east coast. you're watching squawk box on cnbc. i'm andrew ross sorkin along with joe kernen and becky quick. we're right here in times square. among today's top stories, president trump now has ordered a 25% tariff on steel and aluminum imports, an increase from his previous 10% rate eliminated country specific

exemptions that allowed those metals to enter duty free from canada, mexico, brazil and south korea. we're getting an update on names in the sector that are on the move this morning in just a moment. meantime, tech and world leaders gathering in paris for the i action summit. as countries continue to push for dominance in the space. vice president jd vance is there, addressing the crowd at that gathering, laying out the trump administration's vision for tech. >> the trump administration believes that ai will have countless revolutionary applications in economic innovation, job creation, national security, health care, free expression, and beyond. and to restrict its development now will not only unfairly benefit incumbents in the space, it would mean paralyzing one of the most promising technologies we have seen in generations. >> side note the truth is everybody there transfixed by something else completely, which is the elon musk sam altman battle, because sam is there and

everybody in the tech world is there, and that's all they can talk about. we'll talk a lot more about that in just a moment ourselves. meantime, lyft aiming to launch a fleet of robo taxis next year, starting in dallas, they're saying, with plans to scale up to thousands of vehicles in other markets. lyft, working with intel's mobileye unit on the self-driving technology. and that announcement coming after uber offered some new details on its own plan to use waymo robo taxis on its platforms in austin and atlanta later this year. lyft is going to be joining us live tomorrow morning, so we'll get to talk about all of this. this after the company reports its results, which are taking place tonight. >> let's take a look at the futures. >> we're still in the red. >> but we have. >> pared some of the losses. dow futures now down by about 85 points. nasdaq futures down by 97. s&p futures down by just over 18. let's get over to frank holland. he's got a look at this morning's pre-market movers. hey, frank. >> hey good morning becky. you guys were just talking about

those new tariffs on steel and aluminum. this morning we're looking at the stocks tied to those commodities. you can see here on this board they're moving higher. cleveland-cliffs and nucor two of the top domestic steel producers. both of them up more than 2%. central century aluminum and us steel also moving higher both up over 1%. we're also looking at shares of supermicro this morning. take a look here. they're down this morning off of their lows but down about 3.5% this morning following a huge pop yesterday. a pop in more than 17%. and yesterday looking to extend a multi day win streak. longest win streak in several months. so these dramatic moves that we're talking about coming ahead of today's critical business update expected to address the delayed annual report that supermicro faces a february 25th deadline to avoid a nasdaq delisting. taking a look at shares here actually since october the 24th. back on october the 24th. he resigned as the company's auditor later. we found no problems with the books, but you can see since that date shares down just about double digits this morning, we're also looking at shares of phillips 66. those shares different story here.

they're surging up over 5.5%. big upside move on news that activist investor elliott management has increased its stake to $2.5 billion, according to reports. elliott would like to see a number of operational changes, including a possible spin off or sale of the company's midstream business focused on oil refining and natural gas gathering and processing. shares of phillips 66. right now, you can see up more than 5.5%. back over to you. >> okay, frank. thank you. >> when we come back, a lot more on squawk. the weather may have been frightful in january, but the shopping was so delightful. the latest consumer tech point from bank of america, showing signs of shoppers are still willing to use their credit cards despite higher rates. we'll bring you details about that in just a moment. and later, former new hampshire governor chris sununu. he's going to be with us to talk about president trump's reciprocal approach to tariffs. squawk box coming back after this.

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[car crashing] that we get to use every day. >> insurance giant travelers companies saying that it is expecting $1.7 billion of pretax catastrophe losses from the california wildfires in january. the company had said that it could account for the impact in the first quarter. analysts have estimated losses as high as $20 billion for the insurance industry from those wildfires, which were some of the most destructive natural disasters in the state's history. well, despite january's chilly temperatures, consumer spending did heat up. bank of america, noting a 1.9% year over year

increase in spending per household on credit and debit cards. joining us right now is liz krisberg. she's the head of the bank of america institute. and liz, that's actually pretty impressive given the strong growth that we saw in spending in december and that that holiday shopping overall, some of the data we've seen from the government has shown that spending actually eased off a little bit after that. yeah. so the headline number, as you said, was up 1.9%, which was down a little bit from december, which was 2.2. but it's still three times. >> greater than the average. >> we saw. >> the average monthly gain. >> we saw throughout 2024. so the consumer is still spending. now, what i. >> will. >> point out though, is if you look at the month over month comparison, that did come down 4/10, but some of that had to do with the weather. i mean, there was a weather story actually. there were multiple weather stories in january that impacted pretty much every region in the country. you know, in florida and georgia in the south, they had. snow and ice. that doesn't typically happen. obviously, the

wildfires out in la, but the northeast and the midwest had the polar vortex, right, with low temperatures. and so if you think about the. impact and we see we look at the category spending, we do see what would be typical to weather disruption. so for example, when we look at services spending services spending was was flat on the month. but restaurants down 1.4%. you don't go outside when it's icy. you don't go outside when it's cold. on the flip side, on the retail spending, groceries continued to increase, general merchandise continued to increase. and again, some of that was down a lot. clothing was down a huge amount, but it really offset what it was up in december. so i think as you think about this again. >> those categories make sense. >> when we think about the weather impact. but there may be some other things going on. for example, in groceries, you know, how many times have we talked about egg inflation, right? right. i mean, i know a college hockey player who called up mom

and dad and said, eggs are getting really expensive when you come to watch my game, can you please bring me some eggs? and sure enough, i saw her after the game, walking into the locker room with a couple dozen eggs. people are talking about inflation. the question is, should we be worried about it and should we? my answer is not yet. and i'll tell you why. i know i say this all the time. if you want to understand spending, you have to understand the labor market. and what our data is telling us is that after tax, wages and salaries continue to go up for every group, they're going up the most. for younger consumers, gen z is up 8%, millennials up 6%. and so, you know, taking another step back, not talking about groceries, but a bigger. component of what consumers spend on your monthly auto payment. monthly auto payments are going up, up 5% according to our data. and actually this is interesting. not only are they going up, 20% of households now spend more than $1,000 on their monthly car payment. that is double the

percentage from five years ago, but the ratio of a car payment to your car to income has gone down is stable and going down. so if the incomes are going up, you can offset it. you know, at this point something to watch. but right now i think that's what's supporting the spending. >> you don't put eggs in your car so. >> well other than maybe on halloween. >> i mean, except for maybe other people's cars. but we've seen this movie before with eggs. i mean, kalman became famous whenever bird flu. i think the biden administration killed 200 million live chickens. and you have to do it. you don't. you don't want bird flu, and you can do i don't know, you can substitute something. i think right now oil, $100 oil. then you should worry. i think because it just it just filters down the supply chain into everything. >> and i think. >> you're right. i think we're hearing a lot about eggs. we'll understand what's really happening with. >> inflation tomorrow. >> right. but again, the thing that i keep looking at in our data that makes me think this is benign right now, is that ratio

relative. >> to. >> income growth. and if the consumer can, you know, can can stomach it and continue. and by the way, they're not really eating into their savings. it's coming down a little bit as you would expect seasonally. right. but their balance sheets are continuing to look okay. we saw an increase in what people are contributing to their 401 k's. so they're prioritizing savings 6.66% versus 6.5%. so again the consumer is doing okay. and you know actually more than okay. pretty solid i mean that's the biggest takeaway. >> the reason. >> we want you here is to tell us when you're seeing a change in how the consumer. >> is. >> behaving, how there seem to be feeling about things on what they're taking from the wages. you say it's all clear right now. >> i'm saying it's. >> all clear right now. i'm not saying that, you know, this is going to be the way it is forever. but we look at the data. i mean, this is why we talk about it, to see what is actually happening. and it's okay right now. when's the. last time you saw a move in the consumer that really kind of

surprised you and made you think, okay, hold out. i think as long as we've had the bank of america institute for the last, i don't remember you ever. i've been surprised the whole time that the consumer has continued to be as robust as it has. so i would say i'm surprised every month, because if you look at the headlines, the headlines tell you doom and gloom, but that's not really what our data is showing us. that's great. liz, thank you for coming in and for talking to us about this. and again, let us know as soon as you see something. oh, i will that points out that things are not as smooth as they seem. absolutely. thanks a lot. thanks. >> coming up, lead edge capital's mitch green on the potential sale of tiktok, his eye investments and why he thinks ant group could end up lifting china out of a slowdown. it's a provocative thesis. we'll talk about it. and later, an investment group led by elon musk offering more than $97 billion to buy the not for profit that controls openai. sam altman, declining the whole thing out of hand before, by the way, even seeing the offer, the

latest on the battle of the billionaires over the platform. it's all coming up right here on it's all coming up right here on squawk. [ car engine revving ] >> the most challenging engineering project in the history of the human race is our nation. golf has never been closer to the heart of this country. straight down exists thanks to american manufacturing and movement to celebrate all things american made. we love

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>> president trump has reportedly been in talks with potential buyers for tiktok, and is expected to have an update on the app by the end of this month. joining us now is an investor in tiktok parent bytedance. mitchell greene is a founding partner at lead edge capital. in addition to bytedance, he's an investor in uber, alibaba and ant group. wow. it must be loaded. that's why you always look like that. you're always smiling. you're a happy guy, are you not? >> hard not to. >> be happy. hard not to be happy. i agree we should all be happy. it's not about money, obviously. what do you think is going to be the end result? what would be best for you? what would you prefer? >> our thanks for having me on. >> our base. case is that. >> it gets banned. >> however, since the inauguration, there sure seem. >> to. >> be. >> a lot of indications that we. >> might be. >> working towards a deal. >> it appears that the trump administration. >> and elon musk. elon has come. >> out. >> and said he doesn't. >> want to. >> buy. >> it, but. >> the trump administration

wants to do stuff. there appear to be a lot of i'm. >> sure there's a lot of. >> big corporations like oracle or microsoft that might be interested. i have no idea, but they might be as well as individual consortiums. again, it's going to depend up to there's going. >> to be 3 or 4 people involved. >> and i'm not one of those. >> 3 or 4. >> but from the outside i would say it looks like something. >> could happen. >> i mean. it's the valuable i would like to own it. i mean, it's valuable in this country. who do you think guys think? finally, how does it finally play out? it's not going away. you said ban, but i don't think banned is what. >> happens to your investment possibility. >> well the whole. >> so that's your base. >> case 60. our base case. >> was that. >> it would that. >> it disappeared. >> however the 60% of. >> the company. >> is owned by. non-chinese investors holdco. >> so if they were to. >> do some sort of spin, 60% would be. >> owned by non-chinese people and 40%. >> would. >> be by chinese. and it's your guess is as good as mine. what

percentage that our government is. comfortable with? i don't. >> think it's zero. >> but we. >> shall see. >> what. >> percent they'll let own. >> because it's not going to be what happened to mr. wonderful. he's o'leary's out. >> all those groups. >> i think. >> i think none of those things are going to happen. what about a. >> sovereign wealth fund? >> that could be. oh. >> yeah, the. >> american sovereign wealth fund is an interesting idea. >> but who knows? >> i do think. >> you. >> have i think there are large corporates that are what. >> is. >> like oracle or microsoft. >> oracle, microsoft, amazon. i mean, what. >> would what would. >> a company like facebook give to own a part of this gigantic. i think there's d.o.j. d.o.j. issues. but again, maybe they were going to relax some of these things. >> but look, what i don't understand is you look at that board of bytedance now and you look at who the investors are. it's co two. it's this it's. >> it's. >> it's. >> co two global ga. >> susquehanna the american companies anyway. correct. so i don't know what that's why i look i've been very outspoken i think this whole thing is pretend i think this whole thing is like some kind of kabuki

theater. i don't even understand what's happening. >> it's very interesting. >> is, again. >> by the way, the. >> guy who controls bytedance doesn't even live in china. >> live in singapore. >> it's a singapore. >> it's a singapore company. but i think what people don't appreciate, though, the average investor in the us probably again, it's a. >> private company. >> so there's nothing to even make money on it right now. >> there's a most. >> investors in the us, the less than 10% of the revenues of this business are actually even based. >> off of. >> tiktok usa. and so we are very all base case has just been like this goes away that the price we've been able to buy bytedance stock, we have not bought any in the last few months. but the price we've been able to buy stock at reflects a value that we don't have to give any value to the us. and if they spin it out and it's worth 50 billion, 60 billion, 70 billion, 80 billion, i don't know. it's not worth 2 billion. i think any of these individual consortiums would love to own it, but they've got to come up with the

money. and so i think. >> you're going. >> to probably see some scenario where everybody spins what they spin it. and that 40% that's owned by chinese, they will sell some. >> percentage of it. >> and your guess is as good as mine. what that percentage. >> but it doesn't matter to you because it's not a it's not part of your investment. >> our investment thesis. it's all gravy. >> to us. >> these guys have built a. giant e-commerce business, for instance, in china. and the reason that companies like alibaba and jd are struggling to grow over there is because bytedance's e-commerce business in china is so dominant. >> what do you think openai is worth right now? >> i must want to buy it now. >> that's the story of the day. the people that that are interested in things like that. is it what. >> i think. >> it's a. >> play play out. what? what goes, what happens? >> how does that play out? that would be a that's going. >> to be the million. >> dollar question. i wouldn't want. >> all i. >> know is. >> look, sam. >> is an incredible entrepreneur. i can't claim to be good friends with him or

anything, but he's he's an incredible entrepreneur. i would i do not envy him though, and that he's competing in the game that the largest internet and hyperscalers in the world want to spend just crazy amounts of money. i mean, i think that capex budget. >> was like. >> $300 billion or something that this year that these internet giants want to spend. >> i don't know. >> how he competes with that level of capex over time. he has built, obviously, a lot of consumer mindshare, but i think that i think time will tell what happens to that business. >> you would think. >> he'd go public at some point pretty soon. but again, all these companies want to do private rounds. you know, sailpoint is going to go out to bravo, is going to take them out. they just raised the range. the ipo market is good. yet you see companies like it's rumored that stripe's doing something now at 85 billion that just hit the press and just did raised you know, money at $2,528 billion. if the ipo market is fine, it's if lps want

distributions back, they need to go to the vcs and say like get your companies public instead of raising, you know, these giant private rounds. >> you still own your uber or no. >> we don't. >> own uber. >> that's it. i think. >> dara is doing because. >> look, we mainly. >> focus on private investments and the companies have been public for a while. i think that dara has done a fantastic job. it's going to generate, i think like five plus bucks of free cash flow. i think. i still think i sorry, i self-driving in. mass is much further away than people think. you can go in a 15 block radius or 20 block radius in san francisco or in, you know, phoenix or, or in la. but again, in mass, i think it's still a long time. >> okay. >> thank you. >> all right. good to see you. good to see you. >> coming up, former new hampshire governor chris sununu is going to be joining us on president trump's latest executive orders. tariff signings and everything else that's going on. we'll talk about it right after this.

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>> com or just. stop by. >> granger for. >> the. >> ones who get it done. >> it is official. >> google has now renamed the gulf of mexico to the gulf of america on google maps. it's following the executive order from president trump. the change

reflecting google's policy to adhere to official government names for geographical locations. users who discuss this outside the u.s, they see both names the name gulf of america and the name used in their region. and i believe if you're in mexico, you just see gulf of mexico. >> yeah, it's different for denali versus mount mckinley because that's actually in america. so they said whatever the executive order is, is what they should call it for everyone, everywhere. gulf of mexico depends on the gulf of mexico. it depends on where you are. >> gmc's like. >> gmc yukon denali, right? >> oh yeah. >> the names no good anymore for your car. >> it's like pennies. >> yeah. >> collector's item. yeah. maybe it's a collector's item. >> all right. >> when we come back, president. >> trump making his 25% steel and aluminum tariffs official. by the way, check out some of the names in the sector this morning after being up sharply yesterday ahead of that signing.

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>> welcome back to squawk box. our next guest weighing in on president trump's trade agenda. elon musk's doge and so much more. joining us right now, former new hampshire governor chris sununu. let's start with doge. just because that's fun. it's fun. and we've been talking about musk all morning with the open eye of it all and everything else. so there's sort of two sides to the doge story, right? one is fabulous transparency. we're going to get to the bottom of this. we're going to see payments that we think are being made incorrectly and all of that, and hopefully save a lot of money. on the other side are a bunch of folks, including the last 4 or 5 treasury secretaries who who seem very frustrated and upset and i think worried. not mnuchin, not mnuchin. >> the last 4 or 5 democratic.

>> yeah, okay. i think by the way, there's other people who are worried too. >> well that's. >> nice that you think. >> that it's more than. >> tell us more than what you. >> okay great. >> but let me just ask you this. are you concerned about the transparency of the process? so one of the good parts about doge is we're creating transparency. so we get to see see all the stuff that the, the challenge is or the critics would say, there's not enough transparency about the process of getting to the bottom of the process. >> right? >> that's very true. >> i think people are. >> still trying to figure out, well, how is this actually going to all happen. >> in the authorities, of which it happens? you give them credit, obviously, for going fast and hard, doing exactly what they told folks they were going to do. >> exposing what they're really doing is telling all these agencies. it's not that we don't want nih, nih to exist or even usaid. >> to exist. >> but we're going to whiteboard it and force you. >> to. >> justify your existence. none of these agencies have ever had. >> to justify. >> the results. >> the outcomes and their

existence. so their budgets get bloated. >> on the nih one. >> that's a. >> big. >> one for states. >> but what you found was 50% of those dollars. go to overhead and paying the salaries of folks. >> most government. >> contracts are limited to 8. >> to 10%. >> so we're. >> exposing that. so it's. >> a little like tariffs and that it's going to be fast. >> hard a little bit painful right. but in the long term. >> it creates. >> an amazing. reset for not just america. >> transparency and how dollars are spent and the backbone of all of it. and there's something that happened friday. >> that i think is huge. the backbone of this. >> is getting to a balanced budget. and nobody picked up. >> on friday, for the. >> first time ever, president trump. >> tweeted the words balanced. >> budget had never been done before. so he gets that. >> this is the long term play. >> when you. >> talk about tariffs. >> having a growing economy and making sure that we have kind of exposure and. >> transparency, it's not going to be easy. it's not going to be pleasant. it's like getting a tetanus. >> shot right. kind of sucks. >> in the moment. >> but in the long there are there are questions about what gets shut down quickly because you go from the idea of thinking, yeah, there's definitely some fraud. there's some things that are being that are being misspent. most of what we've seen to this point are just things that elon musk or

somebody else disagrees with fundamentally. and there's been some ridiculous things that we've found out that money is being spent on. but the question becomes, do you throw out the baby with the bathwater? >> there'll be. >> a. >> little bit of that. >> and what happens if that's cancer research or something along those lines? >> so that's. >> where congress. >> steps in, right. and says, you. >> know what? a few of these. >> programs went too far. we want them back. and we have the power of the purse. so we're going to again bring them back, maybe. >> with different. >> rules and. >> regulations. >> maybe with a different. >> agenda and process. >> some of these programs. are 50 years old, 60. >> years old. >> they don't have the same. >> point. >> if you will. >> that they had in the 50s. >> but there are people who are going into trials who were expecting to go into trials this week, last week, who are using this as a last resort, who are very sick. how quickly can. >> and will and i mean, theoretically. you'd like to think. >> that. >> in those. >> emergency situations that. >> can move. >> up the line. >> all the dollars aren't just like nih. >> the dollars aren't gone. >> they're just. >> saying. >> by the way, you can't you can't waste them like. >> you've been wasting them. >> you can't pay academia these massive salaries for all these years. you have to put for every

million dollars in research that the nih puts forward, 850,000 has to go. >> to the actual research, not. >> to your salaries. that's a better thing. >> that's more efficient. >> you're going to get a better product out of it. >> what do you think, though, of the sort of unilateral view of cutting things? that's that's you're saying that congress is going to step in. there's also this sort of larger constitutional question that's out there, which is to say, you know, the congress appropriates money. we put a law. there was a law put in place in the 1970s that basically said, if they say that they're putting this money in place, you can't decide you're freezing it. you can't decide you're spending less, you can't write well. and so you. >> can't you can't objectively say you're not spending any of it. you can always spend less. i spend if i'm allocated $100 million for a program in new hampshire, i can always spend less. in fact, our budget is designed to. >> spend less. >> it's called a lapse. the dollars lapse back into. >> the budget. >> so you can always spend less than that. you can't not do it, but you also have to have an open, open, fair bidding process. how long does that take? you put out the rfp.

>> you hire. >> consultants, you make sure everyone can come in. it isn't just doling out checks immediately to whoever's first in line. there's a whole process here that. can effectively be stalled and slowed down if you if you. >> really wanted to. >> but again, that's the power of the executive. his job is to manage that. executive branch. >> what are you going to say that. nothing really. i was going to say there's two you know, during the pandemic, it was like, we need to fix this. and if something falls through the cracks, it's all right. when that's over and you get back to where you can actually look at things, i think there's on the left, there's almost a, almost a, a reflex reaction to not even want to consider, to not even want to look. i mean, we haven't even started cutting. it's just you don't even want an audit. and yet, you know, then, you know, it wasn't too long ago where it was free wheeling. again. i mentioned student loans earlier. i mean, no one cared. >> about washington. >> i was opposed to student loan forgiveness. i think that was a horrible idea. but i also don't want to see things frozen. i want to have the accounting for

it. >> but i don't want. >> and congress has done nothing forever. they've put no. >> efficiency and no accountability. >> no argument. >> to the point where. they have to. >> move forward. >> and everyone says, we're going to get debt. >> under control. >> never watch what you eat. >> you're going to end up obese. you're going to end. >> up someone is doing something about it. can i ask you a different question? this is sort of the woke unwoke. i don't know what we're going to talk about here. so google just deleted its black black history month from the calendar app. like why i don't i don't know if that's woke. i just well no no and pride month right. no this is this is what's happening in america which is things like that are happening. right. i'm just saying this is what's going on if you. yeah. and my question to you is because i don't think you're, you're, you're all the way there in terms of deleting things like that. >> no, no it's silly. >> so, so where are we in this whole process. >> well that's like a societal. >> thing, a cultural question. >> well, if google black history. month i think is very different. >> than some of the other. >> issues that's been acknowledged. >> and by.

>> states and governments, and it's part of our, our history and our culture. and it's every february and it's something to be celebrated and understood and taught in schools. so why you delete that on your app? i don't know, that's. >> a google decision. i'd ask the folks at google. well, no, no, but i think what's happening is there's a lot of companies that do business with the united states government that, given this administration's perspective and view on, they're feeling the pull of these things. they're saying, you know what? we're out. we're just out. all of the companies that have said, you know, we're not you know, we have these dei programs we're eliminating not we're eliminating all of them plus plus. >> so this is to the ceos i work with. >> all the time. >> they go way too far on one side or way too far. >> to the other. >> they get. >> overly political, right? >> if you're selling a car, if you're. >> selling a soda, do this. >> sell the car and sell the soda. ignore the politics. do right by your customer. do right by. your your product, your brand. be what you want to be. and if you want to go ahead and delete that stuff or support that stuff, that's on you. >> but again, there's. >> kind of political risk in all of that. >> the political but the

political risk is different now because the political risk is that the president's going to come out publicly and potentially shame you. >> just the. >> opposite of what it was before. there was huge. political risk with with biden. if you didn't do it, yes. you couldn't do business with the government. >> back on the. >> case. >> rainbow flags on everything you owned. >> it was silly. >> the media back on the case now. i mean, we had a little a little vacation for four years, but we're back on the it's good. it's good that the media should be looking at all this. and i'm gratified that we're back. >> look. >> what i don't get involved in, in the social stuff, really. i mean, i became. governor to be a. >> good manager. >> i'm a i'm a fiscal hawk. fiscal responsibility. i'm going to keep repeating. >> the. >> word balanced. budget. idaho and montana, by the way, are balanced to pass balanced budget resolutions for a constitutional convention. >> right. >> do you guys know we're only five states away from a constitutional convention on a balanced budget in this country that would compel congress to actually do their job? only five more states to go. and if you're a representative in idaho and montana, you better pass those resolutions, because even the president is behind the concept now. so at the end of the day, we can nip on on all the social stuff. i'm not saying it's not important, but getting our

fiscal house in order, having, you know, our economics and the long term strength of this country that is at the core of all of it, if you get that right, then we can start worrying about what flags you want to put out and what companies want to. >> you know. >> whether you want to take certain black history. but i don't understand why. >> google would remove. >> that one. that just seems they're just asking for problems with that, i think. >> but who cares? >> governor, i want to thank you. nice to see you, sir. you bet. in the next hour, house majority leader steve scalise is going to join us. so we're going to get his thoughts on the latest executive orders and the funding bill battle. all that and more. squawk box rolls on after this. >> i mean. >> you've got to. >> on $100,000. >> margin loan. interactive brokers charges just 5.83%. do you know how much your broker charges? >> fidelity and schwab charge. over one and a half. >> times as much. >> e-trade is. >> even higher. >> move your account to interactive. brokers and save at least $5,200. or much more.

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>> that's my secret to better odor control everywhere. >> hamas has announced that it will delay the next hostage release after it claimed that israel broke the terms of a negotiated deal that we've seen. joining us now, amos hochstein, served as a senior adviser to former president biden. he also led the negotiations between israel and lebanon and the. it's

good to see you, amos. thanks for joining us this morning. do you do you believe is it because of access to tents and mobile homes needed for shelter? is that i mean, that's what hamas is claiming. is it because of trump's comments about gaza? what's happening right now in your view? and is it are we at risk of this thing falling apart? >> well, first, good. >> morning joe. it's good to be back. look. >> i don't. >> really know. we don't really know why. >> hamas is doing this. >> it is definitely. >> not about. >> any of. >> these tactical. >> violations of tents. >> or or aid. >> the fact. is that israel's. >> aid is. >> the aid. >> that's. >> going from israel into gaza is continuing at. >> the. >> you know, on. >> average. >> at. >> the rate. >> that was expected. >> at the 600. >> trucks. >> the tents and so. >> on. that's all happening. >> i think that. the broader. >> issue here is that both. >> sides are already. >> in. >> the. debate about what

happens on. the phase two. if you remember, we're. >> in phase. >> one of this agreement. >> at some point on day 16. >> they were. >> supposed to start talking in earnest to negotiate the phase two. >> that seems. >> to be. >> going slower. >> i think israel is having a political debate. >> about it. >> not clear that israel. >> wants to do it. >> not clear. so i think hamas. >> is probably flexing. >> i think they're. >> also doing. >> it on a. >> you know, throwing. >> in the wrench here. >> on a monday yesterday. >> when the next release. >> of. >> hostages should. >> be on. >> it's supposed. >> to. >> be on saturday. >> so there are several days here to. >> still work. this out. >> and for them to. have made. their point. i think. >> the most important. >> thing. >> joe. >> is. >> to look. at the, the. >> how the hostages looked. >> what happened at that horrible. >> you know. >> fiasco of a. >> of a pr. >> stunt, that horror. >> show that hamas put. >> on. >> when they released. >> the hostages, the male, the first. >> male. >> hostages who looked like they. >> came out of concentration camps.

>> and the focus should be. >> on getting those hostages out as soon as possible. and that's what. >> the. >> cease fire. was all about. and that's what it needs to continue to be. >> it's frustrating. three at a time, the dribs and drabs and what you just alluded to, it is there in your view, has there been a softening of resolve or a softening of. i mean, i'm not saying there's any empathy for, for hamas, but we should recognize exactly what that group is. what caused this, what october 7th was. but i just don't know how you take a harder stance without hurting your chances to get the remaining hostages out. i don't know what the hell is going to happen or where the hell there's going to be hell to pay. i don't know what that means. when you can't. it's not like a targeted approach that you can take that everybody's mixed in with everything else, and i don't know what that looks like. almost. it's almost like israel's hands are still tied

because there are hostages. >> well, i. >> think. >> that's right. >> and i think that's why. >> hamas took the. >> hostages in the first. >> place, right. >> to have these cards. >> this is a terrible, horrific situation. >> and i. >> i've been. >> in close touch with. >> many of. >> these of. >> the hostage. >> families for. >> the. >> last. >> you know. >> year and 4 or 5 months. >> and it's really. >> it's just the pain is unimaginable. >> hamas is a terrorist. >> organization that committed the crimes. >> that they. >> did. on october 7th. >> but the. >> cease fire's point. >> is to be able to get. >> to a process that. allows for these. >> hostages to come back. and conflicts don't end often with, you know, a decisive. >> moment. >> the way world. >> war two. >> ended. they end messy. >> and this. >> is. >> what messy looks like. >> and that means. >> that you. >> have to. >> have a solution. >> where the hostages. >> get to come home. >> that can only be. done with. >> the end. >> of the fighting. and then. >> there has to be. >> a solution. >> for how do you maintain. some kind of status.

>> quo into the future, where. hamas cannot. >> rebuild its. >> its military. >> capacity and capability? >> that's what. >> the end of war looks like. >> they're not perfect. these are ends of these are ends of conflict. through ceasefire, cessation of. >> hostilities. >> whether it's with gaza. >> or with. >> lebanon. they are. >> not peace accords. >> they're not. >> the end of the story. and so we. >> have. >> to recognize. >> the difference between reaching. >> a peace. >> accord and reaching a ceasefire. >> it's just a. >> halting of the. >> of the hostilities. >> so i it's hard to say that israel is. >> fighting with its hand behind, tied behind. >> its back. >> it has. >> all the munitions, all. >> the advantages. >> but at. >> the end. >> of the day, it. >> does need. >> to face two realities. one is. >> getting the hostages out. and second. >> that there. >> are nearly roughly 2 million people. >> living in gaza. >> they're not. >> going to disappear overnight. >> they're going to be there for a long time. >> and so. >> you have to find some. >> way to. >> live in peace and. security without. >> taking some risks. >> but once. >> necessary to continue. >> living. >> not. >> ones that would that would

risk. >> a. second october 7th. >> down the. >> road with the tunnels and the bombs, the unexploded bombs. what we know of gaza now, how can anyone live there? almost and as outlandish as some of those suggestions that president trump has made seem, is there is there any alternative to the status quo that that that we've seen for the past 50 or 60 year, in israel's view, that where maybe palestinians don't live in gaza, they live somewhere? is there any way that that could ever happen in your view, or is it a total pipe dream? almost. >> you know, i tend. >> to think that it's very. >> difficult to imagine the forcible removal of, of 2 million people. to places that don't yet seem feasibly to be. >> in existence. >> so it. >> just. >> seems to me. >> very. >> very difficult to imagine.

>> and i. >> worry that to. >> get to phase two. >> which releases. >> the remainder of the hostages. we need. >> to. >> have some kind. >> of. >> understanding of what. >> a security. >> look like in. >> gaza after phase. >> one, which means when israel. >> pulls out. >> of gaza. >> and i think that you can look at long term solutions, perhaps as. >> president. >> trump is. >> trying. >> to do. but i think you have to look. >> at what can happen. >> right now. there were. >> discussions over the last several months with. >> key arab. >> and. >> gulf allies to. see what kind of day. after so-called day after plan. >> that allows. >> for an internationalization of the security in gaza and. >> of. >> the administrative authority in gaza. i think that with all. >> the risk. >> there is an. >> ability to rebuild. >> we've done it before. >> in other. >> places in the world. >> where at the end of. >> conflict there are. >> unexploded ordnances. >> and there is massive destruction. >> you still can. build and.

>> rebuild and it. >> may require some. >> creativity. but there has to. >> be. >> not just. >> rebuilding for the sake of rebuilding. >> but to give palestinians. hope so that they. >> can make a choice. >> i don't want to. >> i don't. >> have to support hamas. >> i should want to support a life. >> that is normal. >> and clearly the palestinian authority. >> sitting in the. west bank. >> has no. >> capacity to. >> do that. in gaza. >> right now. but there has to be. >> another. >> alternative working. >> with wealthier arab. >> states to be able. >> to bring. >> about a new. security apparatus. >> and civilian administration. >> in gaza that would enable that. >> but to. >> do. >> that, we have to not. just distract. >> from getting. >> hostages out. >> real. >> real quick. i'm just if philosophically, i'm so curious, you know, president trump has put this what has been described as an outside the box idea on the table. there are some people who say he shouldn't even be putting these ideas on the table. and there's other people who say, we should be thinking about all these things, and i'm giving you your own politics. i'm curious how you where you

ultimately land on that very question, because some people say, well, there's like a domino effect. if you start to say these things, it raises all sorts of other geopolitical questions for other countries and other things. and other people say, actually, we need to start thinking in these sort of outside the box ways. look, you want to think about out of the box, you know? fine. i think there's a danger when. >> it becomes a distraction from what is really necessary to. >> do. >> right now. it's not a plausible solution, in my. >> opinion at the. >> moment, and it's a distraction. >> you want to talk. >> about it. >> that's fine. i think. >> people can have very strong moral. >> feelings about a forcible. >> removal of people. >> from their land. >> and i think that people in the middle. >> east have long, you know, people around the. >> world. >> underestimate the. >> connection to land. >> and property and location, both by jews. >> yearning to live in, in. israel and a homeland, as well. >> as palestinians.

>> and arabs wanting to live in. >> their homeland. >> so it is not. >> just. >> about comfort, it is also about. it is also about a dream and. >> religious aspiration. >> beliefs and aspirations. so i think it's not a western view, perhaps, of just being willing to relocate for comfort. so i think, you know, at the. >> end of the. >> day, you can talk about ideas, sort of long term ideas outside of. >> the. >> box. >> but you've. >> got. >> to stay. >> focused on. >> what. >> is most important right now, and that. >> is to make sure. >> that the hostages come. >> out, continue. >> to. >> come out in phase one. >> and. >> you negotiate phase two. >> but then we can be doing this all over again, you know, two, three, four, five, 60 years. and that's that's the that's been what we've seen. it's tough. you're right. thanks. it's good. good. good to have you on. i don't think we didn't even use the. did we say crude or oil or spr. we didn't say one thing about that. you are a renaissance man. >> maybe because it's going so

well, joe. >> okay. but since. >> the inauguration. what? oh, no. you mean in general. oh, you mean before that pre. okay, thanks. thanks, amos. good. good to have you on. see you later. >> take care. >> it is 8. >> a.m. on the east coast. and you're. >> watching squawk. >> box right here. >> on cnbc. i'm becky quick along with joe kernan and andrew ross sorkin. among today's top stories. fed chair jay powell. >> is set to testify. >> in front of the senate banking committee this morning. investors will be. >> closely monitoring what powell has. >> to say. >> about inflation and interest rates. >> he'll speak with house members tomorrow. earnings this morning from coca-cola. that company topping earnings and revenue expectations with global demand for drinks rising. don't miss an interview with. >> coke ceo. >> james quincey that's coming up. >> later. >> this morning on squawk on the street. and president trump signing an executive order that directs the department of justice to pause enforcement of a nearly half century old law

aimed at stopping american companies from bribing foreign officials. >> trump. >> sharing his view that the foreign corrupt. practices act unnecessarily scares business leaders out of doing deals. >> openai ceo sam altman rejected an unsolicited $97 billion bid for its nonprofit arm by elon musk and a group of investors earlier this morning. altman spoke to cnbc at the artificial intelligence action summit. >> i think. >> it's to slow down a. >> competitor and try to catch up with. >> his thing, but i. >> don't really know. >> yeah, but you. >> know, well, right. i to the degree. >> anybody. >> does kate. >> rooney joins us now with more and what it means for the ai platform. it's probably a pretty good price i guess long term. >> yeah. >> yeah. joe. >> well. >> you heard from sam altman there. >> this really. >> is an. >> unwelcome bid. >> on openai side, throwing. >> another wrench in. >> its plans to become a for profit business. >> then you got. >> musk, a co-founder. of

openai. >> and he started a competing. >> firm. >> x ai. >> he did. >> sue to block that. >> corporate restructuring. >> and this. >> $97 billion. >> bid is. >> his. >> latest counterattack. >> musk's lawyer. >> calling that conversion basically unfair, saying that the nonprofit is going to be giving up control of the business. >> in exchange. >> for a small stake. >> in this new. >> entity, as he. >> put it. >> who on earth. >> would make that trade? >> he says it is in the public interest that. >> openai is compensated at fair market value. >> says that. >> cannot be determined by. insiders negotiating on both sides. >> of the same table. >> altman, responding to musk's overture in a tweet yesterday, saying. >> no thank. >> you, but. >> we. >> will buy twitter. for 9.74. >> billion. >> if you want. that's a jab at musk buying twitter. >> for. >> about four times that price. musk responded to that with simply. swindler. >> other investors. >> if. >> you look at this takeover. >> bid, are. >> extreme musk loyalists. >> you have names like antonio gracias. he's a spacex backer who. >> helped musk. >> buy twitter. a close personal. >> friend as well gavin baker.

>> ron baron, ari. >> emanuel and people. >> close to. >> this group. >> that i've been talking to. speculate the. >> deal could. >> be really designed at this point to get in altman's. >> head. >> or, as altman. >> said. >> at least. >> stall the for profit plans and growth for openai. it's worth noting. who's not. >> in this deal? >> no mentions of funds out. >> here in silicon valley. >> like sequoia. >> or founders. >> fund andreessen. >> horowitz, who have all backed musk in previous deals. i have been talking to executives. >> at. >> openai who are really. >> rushing this bid. >> off sam. >> altman reiterating that. >> to cnbc in paris this morning. but stanford professor robert siegel, who i spoke. >> to. >> tells me. >> the board. >> might really. >> need. >> to. >> take this seriously. >> they do have a. >> fiduciary duty. >> to consider. >> and he pointed out. >> this could also test openai's board governance. the board did restructure after. >> sam altman. >> was. >> ousted. >> if you remember that, and then. reinstated back in 2023. >> guys. >> i thought there was some question as to whether you brought that up or whether there's a fiduciary responsibility for a nonprofit to consider something like this. kate just said they have a

fiduciary responsibility. it's like. >> well, the question is, who's the fiduciary responsibility to. and that's the interesting question. you could argue. >> that's an. >> interesting fiduciary. >> duty is. >> to the institution. go ahead kate. yeah. >> yeah. >> no, no, that's i think that's a great point. >> so you. >> have the nuance. >> between private. >> and public companies. but this this board structure. >> is so unique in. >> that it is a nonprofit. >> so they're. >> they might. >> be. >> serving the public good. >> they might. >> be serving this charity. >> versus the. >> traditional shareholders. >> at this point. >> so i think that's something. >> important to point out. >> that it is a little. >> bit of. a gray area. >> because it is. >> a nonprofit. >> so it's. not just classic shareholders. >> you got. >> the. nonprofit side. >> of it, too, which makes all of this a lot messier. and if nothing. >> else. >> could just slow. >> down this whole. >> conversion process. >> well, yeah. >> we're bringing in oversight from either california, or. >> you would have to point out if it's worth 300 billion and they're off or not. i mean. >> right. >> i mean, that's the most. >> no. >> you don't need to buy it flat

out to get control. >> of it. at the moment it becomes a private company, the fiduciary duty issues become much clearer, obviously. and so that's why this could be this. if nothing else, it could just be sand in the gears of slow. this whole thing down to give musk more time to figure this out. right. >> to say. >> all right. >> thanks, kate. >> still to come this morning, a look at what's on the move in the early morning. plus, the ceo of mobile satellite services provider globalstar and the minority owner of the sacramento kings, paul jacobs, will join us. his company starts trading on the nasdaq today. squawk box on the nasdaq today. squawk box will be got eyelid itching, crusties and swelling that won't go away? it could be... demodex blepharitis! and we're demodex mites. we're very common and super irritating to your eyelids... but we love making ourselves comfortable here! oh, yeah...steam time!

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think equity funding. innovation and growth. think equity. learn more today at think equity. com. >> how do you see wealth money in the bank. precious commodities. find financial clarity with cnbc's trusted resources. keep your future in focus. cnbc live ambitiously. >> welcome back to squawk box. i'm frank island with a look at this morning's pre market movers. we start with an earnings mover marriott shares. as you can see they're down just about two and a third percent after the company beat on the top and the bottom lines. also adding a record number of new rooms for the full year. however, marriott provided guidance that was below estimates for the current quarter and for the full year. the guidance came in at 982 to 1019 a share, compared to the estimate of 1064. marriott shares down more than 2%. all right moving on. looking at dupont. another earnings mover moving higher this morning. you can see shares are up just about 5.5% after top and bottom line

beats. eps double digits higher than the estimates. the electronics and industrial segment of the business. that was really a driver beating estimates there. it's also where dupont gets about half of its revenue. the company crediting a recovery in semiconductors driven by ai, also adding it saw stronger demand in china. however, the full year guide was light, with the midpoint of guidance below estimates for both revenue and profit. and again, investors don't seem to mind. shares up about 5.5%. oh snap. moving lower on a downgrade from guggenheim. moving the social media name to neutral from a buy. also lowering its price target from $13 down to $11. you can see snap trades at about 1050 right now. analysts say they don't believe plans to invest in the business to increase revenue. well, that's necessarily the wrong strategy, but they're very concerned about the impact to profit long term. they credit snap's ability to reach younger demographics with ads. shares of snap down about 1.5% right now over the last year, falling about 5%. back over to you. >> okay. thanks for that, frank. meantime, house majority leader steve scalise is going to be on with us in just a moment to

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>> welcome back to squawk box this morning. our next guest saying that markets will be choppy for the next 3 to 6 months. and he views a broadening in the earnings recovery as critical to his year end s&p price target of 6500. we are happy to welcome back mike wilson to squawk box. he is chief investment officer, chief u.s. equity strategist for morgan stanley. it's great to see you after quite some time. nice to see you, sir. good morning. so you think the next the next couple of months are choppy? does that mean don't do

anything and wait for some kind of dip based on the sort of longer term arc you've got going? not at all. i mean, look, we made that call back in november, december. just saying. look, we priced a lot. 6100 was. >> kind of our short term target. >> and look. >> there's a lot of news coming out. >> and we think the growth that. >> the policies initially are sort of growth. >> negative, which is. >> you know, immigration sort of enforcement. >> and of course the tariffs. and that's. >> just a lot of noise. >> so we're just digesting that planning to do. >> underneath the surface. i mean financials have been phenomenal. >> and we've seen. >> a broadening out to some degree. in fact you know software over semiconductors has been a. >> great trade for us because. >> as software over semiconductors, because the diffusion of. >> tech now and the application. >> layer is being built out. >> and we. >> think that got confirmed. >> a bit with the deep sea, you know, announcement. >> so do you think the. do you think that the semiconductor game is a taking a pause or it's over or what. well it has taken a pause. i mean, i know it's taken a pause, but is it is it forever a pause? of course not. i mean, i mean, it's a cyclical group. and look away from the ai beneficiaries within. i mean, capex has been pretty weak for

most other semi. >> semiconductor types. >> spending, right? >> and of. >> course now. >> with this deep sea potentially leading. >> to the. next excitement. >> part. >> of ai, which is the diffusion of it and the application layer, that's the opportunity is going back into the software stack. >> like there was a time where you were worried about, i think earnings, which could forecast like a slowdown in the in the economy, that could have been the r-word, could have been a recession that never happened. that's right. is it is it can we. have we learned to manage the economic cycle where it doesn't have to? are we closer to it happening now because it didn't happen, or does it not have to happen unless there's a mistake? >> well, i think a couple of things happened last year. when we missed is. >> i mean, we didn't miss it. >> we actually called. >> for it, which is a rolling recession. >> i mean, we had we've had recessions. >> in many, many industries. >> if you think about the last two years, we've been. >> in a recession, in housing, in autos, in manufacturing, in consumer goods. a good part of the economy has been. >> so we're not closer to that inevitable day of reckoning for something happening.

>> no, i. >> mean, i will say this. >> i think what could be interesting. >> this year is. >> you could have a recession in government, right? if you have a recession in government that may actually cause unemployment to go up. >> to a level that could cause. >> a recession. that's right. yeah. >> but it may not be that. >> bad. >> joe, for the rest of the economy, because they've already been in sort of this soft recession. >> so that's actually our. >> bull case, is that the. government shrinks. >> you know, the crowding out stops. >> it allows the fed to cut rates. >> at some point. and the broadening out can actually happen a lot, lot to happen between here and there. but that is actually the bull case guy. >> that was like a symphony to me. what you just described is that. and you think that's possible at morgan? >> well, i think they're. >> working on it. i mean. >> you know, probably the most underestimated. >> part of. >> the administration. >> is, is doge. i mean, i. >> think there's a lot of skepticism around. >> this. >> but the reality is, is that's possibly the most. >> bullish thing that. >> could happen if you could. >> shrink. >> the government in a way that the. >> end of the free world and a constitutional crisis. i just heard chris murphy say that to me. i mean, i'm scared beyond belief. i'm scared to where there's nothing in my intestines. >> well, i.

>> mean, it's the most. >> exciting thing i've heard in a while. >> remember in the. >> 1990s. >> we had. >> this great. >> bull market? >> now, the thing that. >> really sparked that, in my view, was the budget deal that happened in 94. okay, now. >> i'm not sure we can get to that kind of a, you. >> know, a balanced budget. >> but if we can make progress on. >> that, it liberates. >> the private. >> economy and the crowding. >> out that. you mentioned. 100%. >> that's interesting. i mean, that is a contrarian take. i think. >> why is that a contrarian take? >> you've been giving me the other side all morning or giving us. >> no, no, that's not the contrarian take on the economy. take that on. >> the doge could end up being a complete, almost a spring loading effect for the overall economy is not what most people are thinking. that's what you're. >> i think most people are very skeptical. >> investors are very skeptical because, look, there's it's hard to do. >> it's what do you think? what do you think the ultimate number is that has to get taken out for that to happen? look, we just need to freeze spending. we don't need. >> to really cut. >> a lot of spending. we're running so far above trend on actual expenditures. let's just

freeze it. >> or at least. >> slow it down. i mean. >> we're growing at. >> a much faster rate than the economy is growing. that's the crowding out feature, which, by the way, has kept rates higher than they probably would have been otherwise. >> that's why that's why the long end is running up. and that if we don't do something immediately, that will be the problem that pops up. >> that's right. the back half of last. >> year. >> we saw rates. >> actually start to move up and that was. >> our call. >> but we thought 6100 was doable. is that. you know republican win a trump win was positive for growth but maybe not so great for rates. but now the market is kind of second guessing that and saying. >> well, maybe. >> they can be successful here. we just don't know. and it's going to be messy. that's why we think it's going to be choppy for another three or 4 or 5 months, because we don't know the answer to this. but but this is the this is the direction they're going, right? is there places you would just stay away from right now? well, i think. i still think low quality businesses are under a lot of low quality. businesses are always under pressure, not always. i mean, remember in 2021 when inflation was accelerating, those businesses think anything would move, right? they did phenomenally well. and we saw a little bit of low quality work

in the fall when there was a grab for risk. so in fact, if you go back to last summer, right, we were basically recession fears were kind of rampant. and then the fed cut rates 50 basis points. low quality did really, really well in the fall. and so i think that takes a back seat again. so we're avoiding that type of stuff. let me ask you one question related to your semiconductor view on the pause. does that also extend to data centers in real estate. well look, there's a there's an ai capex deceleration going on. that's not negative growth in capex. it's deceleration. but stocks live at the margin, right? they live in the second derivative. and that's what i think that's that's potentially what's been weighing on the space, whether it's, you know, data centers, electricity, you know, utilities, things like that, to get a little overcooked. that creates opportunity in other areas like financials where moody had to move big liquid group that the money can go into. excellent. mike, thank you for coming in. great to see you again. you too. >> you're close, aren't you? this is this should not be that hard. >> three blocks? >> yeah. >> three blocks. three blocks. anytime. you uber.

>> if you walk. >> i'm a walking joke. >> you are. >> all right. >> a baseball. >> cap down over. >> your over your head. >> thank you. >> mike. >> my pleasure. >> when we come. >> back, elon musk's starlink service gets a lot of press. and it made some waves. with a t-mobile partnership announced on super bowl sunday. but there's lots of competition in the low earth orbit satellite communications space. after a break, we're going to speak with one of the. >> key players. globalstar ceo. >> paul jacobs. stay tuned. you're watching squawk box and this is cnbc. you know what's brilliant? boring. think about it. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. that's why pnc bank strives to be boring with your money.

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>> well our next guest has a front row seat to business competition in space as well as right here on terra firma on the basketball court. joining us right now is paul jacobs. >> he's the ceo. >> of satellite and communications. services provider global star. that company is listing on the nasdaq today. paul is also a minority owner and vice chairman of the nba's sacramento kings, and he serves on the boards of dropbox and arm holdings. and by the way, he's the former ceo of qualcomm as well. and paul it's great to see you this morning. >> thank you very much. sorry for such a long biography there. >> well, there's things we didn't even mention here, but why don't we just start with why you moved to the nasdaq from the nyse? >> yeah. so we're here. i mean, most of the. >> companies, as you've seen. >> that i've been involved with, are tech innovators, and they're on the nasdaq. and we're also here. >> because we did. >> a reverse split. we're a multi-billion. >> dollar company. >> but our stock price was. >> down in the. >> dollar ish range. >> and people thought of us. as a penny stock. and some investors couldn't invest in us. so we're here sort of in

conjunction with that, the re listing and the reverse split. >> so there. >> was a big super bowl ad on sunday that t-mobile put out talking about how it's a partnership that it has with starlink is going to allow phone users. i think the words they said, the only spacex network that automatically connects you to the phone, you already have for the deal that they have. yesterday, t-mobile shares were up about 3% on this. your stock was up by 11.3%. ast stock was up by 23% because people kind of looked around and said, wait a second. there are some other players who are doing some similar things too. what did you think when you saw that ad? >> i was super. happy because now mainstream consumers are going to know that your smartphone can connect to a satellite. but it would also say that if you're a consumer and you're thinking about choosing that service, you might just check your phone and see whether it already has the capability. because hundreds of millions of. phones have the capability to connect to satellites for text messaging using the globalstar

satellite constellation. >> yeah, your partners with apple. so anybody with an iphone can already use that for emergency text situations. when will we be able to do what they're talking about, which is maybe talk on the phone even when you're in an area where there is no cell service? >> yeah. so i can't really talk about our customers plans, but one of our partners. that's a supplier to us just announced that we made a big contract with them to build new satellites. >> mda space, mda. >> exactly. and those guys, those satellites are going to have some new capabilities. >> of course. so. but how long is that going to take? >> so we've already been working on the satellites. so you know, satellites, something like a three year process. but we've been in it for a while already, so i can't say exactly when the service will launch. >> but but do you think there's a massive first mover advantage in this whole process? i mean, do you look at what t-mobile is doing with starlink and you say, okay, if everybody starts to go that direction, even if they want your service later, that they'll already hook up with somebody else. and then also,

what's the pricing? >> so we. were in the first round. >> you were the first mover. >> right. and so now the question is as you go along a technology roadmap and improve capability. i mean that's the natural course of things. so the question is what's a consumer willing to pay for? is the consumer willing to pay for broadband? what i call netflix in the mountains, which is broadband to your phone. and that's an unproven business model right now. what we do know is that there's a proven benefit to providing text messaging and other kinds of messaging that allow people to have peace of mind when they're out of cellular coverage. >> what's your thought about what amazon's going to do? >> i think all of these services are super interesting. now, amazon, as is the original starlink service, they're focused on broadband to a thing with a very large antenna that allows you to get very high data rates for like home internet or an airplane or a boat. so that's a slightly different concept than direct to a cell phone. >> can i ask you something a little off topic before we even

talk basketball on this? just your thoughts on what's happening in ai right now. it is not just the story of the day, but the story of the last year of trying to find out what's happening with that. your experience with qualcomm, everything you know from the tech sector. where are we right now? is this a different moment in time? what do we know from deep sea, and how do you think things are going to play out between openai and elon musk? >> i mean, so much money is going into ai right now, and i've been through a lot of different cycles of technology where everybody got excited and hopped on board, and in the end, certain things show up that actually create a real business model, and other ones cause companies to go away or consolidation to happen and so forth. i mean, the capabilities are amazing, but they aren't perfect either, and i don't think we are yet to general intelligence, which everybody is expecting, is going to take over so many things from the from the human race. so we still have a lot of work to go before that happens. but sure, there's a lot of exciting things that are

happening. and as i said, a lot of money is going into that sector. >> do you. >> think we're at the high water mark for that money that goes into it, or do you think we continue to build from here? because that's been one of the major questions. >> i think. >> the question is, is how cost effectively can you actually serve what they call the inference. so that's actually when you put your data in and you get an answer out. and for sure there's questions about how how people will in different. >> countries in. >> fact is deep sink better. >> what do you what. >> we it's. >> we don't. >> know yet i. >> mean it's you know the need to actually look at these things very carefully, but there were already indications that you could train an ai model off of another ai model. so we knew that that was possible. >> right. >> the question is, how good is the quality in the end of the reduced model versus the more expensive model? >> let's talk about the sacramento kings and how things stand. how are you feeling about valuations in basketball? how are you feeling about how the season is shaping up? >> i mean, the valuations are obviously have been going up because we're doing a good job

attracting, you know, people wanting to watch the games fans. the product is extremely good. super excited about that. and you know, we've. opened it up for more investors as well. funds can invest now right. and so forth for the kings. you know we've had a bunch of trades. we've changed our roster up. you know excited with the new coach there. and we'll see how it's going. we had a nice streak for a little while. and i look forward to you know having a good rest of the season. >> there have been some some really big trades. maybe luka at the top of the bucket. that came as a surprise to everybody. does that really shake up the entire league? >> i mean, it's great that the lakers have a strong lineup because obviously it's a big media market. so you want to make sure that you have a good team there. but yeah, i think that people didn't expect to see luka get traded. you know we have a superstar like that. unfortunately we had a shot at luka early on and we didn't draft him. so i've had a little envy of that over time. and but in any case, it's good. >> to draft instead. do you remember.

>> marvin bagley. so he hasn't done quite as well as luka. >> that was a that was a shocker that's for sure. is there parity at this point. and there isn't i guess no. maybe even as much as some other sports i think. >> you know i mean the way the economic model works in terms of the way the salaries go and the and the sharing of the revenues with the players, i think it's a good model. it makes everybody, you know, be competitive. but for sure there's teams that just get their strategy right. they get their timing right. i mean, you look at oklahoma city right now up and down and up. now, not only do they have a good team, but they have a lot of draft picks. so you know, it's how the teams play the game both on the court and off the court that matters. >> what do you think about what maverick carter is doing right. who. maverick carter is planning to build a completely competitive league. by the way, he's lebron james's partner, an

international league, you know, backed by all sorts of folks. yeah. >> so the question of other leagues often comes up and people are thinking not just five on five but three on three and other kinds of leagues like that. i mean, i think anything that goes into the sport is good. >> you do you think that adam silver is sitting there going, this is a great idea. if we had kevin. we had kevin durant's manager on the program. if maverick carter were to get lebron involved in this, that would be good for the league. >> i think that the league has seen or many leagues have seen upstart leagues come up and the reading leagues have always been able to, you know, continue to grow their popularity. and i think the key issue for us is to continue to grow the popularity, present a great product. and, you know, keep the fans and, you know, the leagues looks at all sorts of opportunities. >> i think you have a moat. you know, there's some football season coming up. you know, i see it advertised. i'm like, i

don't recognize the uniform. they look like they're throwing like a normal i don't even know what it is. is it xfl, nfl, usfl something's coming up. there's another league. and how many times have they tried that? >> remember it depends on the players you get right. >> yeah. >> well look if you can start to. >> put this goes back. this is like. if you can actually. >> a hell. >> of a you can pull the real guys. >> it's a hell of. >> a moment. >> the stars nba i'm not worried. >> about it becomes a real thing i don't know. >> i mean nba has done a great job. you know we've also gone into other countries played games there. we've developed fans there. so i think that the nba is in a in a good position. and i would agree. the nfl has seen a number of upstart leagues come and go. so it's you never know how it's going to go. i'm obviously not going to sit here and say i can predict the future perfectly, but the nba is in a great position. >> stadium to the little. >> what was that. >> indoor football. >> yeah, yeah. >> paul, i want to thank you very much for joining us today. and we will be watching as you ring the opening bell later this

morning. >> when we used to do qualcomm. do you remember what we used to do. >> yeah. >> did you like. >> that i loved that that was great. >> that was greco. >> wasn't it. that was greco. >> it's been a little while. oh exactly. >> thank you. >> buying a car is kind of a big deal. how do you know if it's the right. >> car for you? ooh. the most. >> fuel. >> ratings and complete. >> vehicle history. >> from car gurus. >> that's how. boom. >> most power players. >> on wall. street rate. >> nvidia a strong. >> buy today. yet why are so many legendary investors quietly ignoring that advice and instead selling the stock hand over fist? every billionaire on your screen has recently sold nvidia. >> some have. >> offloaded millions. >> of shares. >> in fact. >> hedge funds are quietly selling all of their tech stocks at. >> the fastest rate we've seen since 2016. >> my name is mark chaikin. during my. 50 years.

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>> smart mom. >> by morning. >> got it. >> got it. >> boss otter, you. got this. >> welcome back to squawk box. openai ceo sam altman telling cnbc this morning that elon musk is looking to slow down a competitor with his $97 billion bid to control openai. joining us right now to talk about all

of the drama surrounding this story, jessica lessin, founder and editor in chief and ceo of the information. jessica, it is great to see you as the world turns. this one continues to. exactly, exactly. we've been talking all morning about fiduciary duties. if you're brett taylor and you're the chairman of this, this not for profit that has this for profit subsidiary with an intention to turn the whole thing into a for profit eventually. what are the duties in terms of how you see this? >> i mean, i think this nonprofit. >> board has. >> a lot. >> of leeway, andrew. >> to reject this offer. and the information reported last night. that they told staff that they are going. >> to reject. >> this offer. and you've also got to remember, this is a board. >> that has been mired. in a lot of governance. >> crises, is actually the new board that came out. >> of the. >> governance crisis. but in the. >> end of the day. i don't think. openai has to take. >> this offer. >> and. >> now it seems. >> like they're kind of going. >> on the warpath to fight it

and to fight musk publicly. so it's a real buckle up moment, i think. >> well, so but here's the question. is it a buckle up moment or is this a sideshow? i mean, i think that's that's the fundamental question. does this somehow bring in regulators and or politicians in the state of california or in the state of delaware? to the extent that sam believes that this is an effort to sort of throw sand in the gears of his plans to take the company private. how does that how does that all work? >> look, it's absolutely a shrewd move by musk, who's trying to stop this conversion and really just setting a price for what the nonprofit is worth in that conversion. so that's absolutely, you know, i think objective one, regulators are also are already involved. musk has been throwing sand in the gears in a lot of ways. openai's competitors have to in washington, raising questions about their microsoft partnership and so many other things. so i think there will be

a lot of different dramas to unfold. of course, the big question is whether the conversion will be able to go through, and that's in the courts. openai has some positive momentum there, but that, you know, will time will tell. i think there there's a lot more musk and others can do. as this company grows, a lot of people are getting, you know, concerned about its power and its has a lot of rivals who want to make things tough. for it. >> you said. >> there's a lot of things that musk could do, like what. >> i was thinking more actually. >> in the public perception as well. well, i mean, so there's acts and all the things he can do through that. of course, he is very close with our president in this country and openai. openai has been very concerned about musk's influence over trump. obviously, openai announced with trump in a very prominent way, a huge infrastructure project named stargate. so, you know, they're

getting their pathways in washington as well. but i think that looms is a big concern. what can their biggest rival, who has the president's ear do to. make their life more difficult. >> in terms of the way the rest of the industry perceives openai? and so many of them are in paris this morning where jd vance, the vice president, was speaking as part of this open, this ai summit. i shouldn't say an openai summit, but it probably turned into at least that topic. topic number one is the sense you think by everybody else in the valley that they are with elon musk in this, or they're against elon musk in this. >> i think it's divided, but look meta sided with musk when it came to trying to block the conversion in court. they wrote a letter. i think, you know, openai has a lot of love from developers in the valley. i mean, its products are excellen, and it's been leading in so many ways. but ai is a powerful technology that is currently

very concentrated. and so i think there's unease about it. there's also unease. andrew, i think is important with openai's investors. you know, this has become, you know, raising money or trying to raise money at a $300 billion valuation company with no clear exit plan, especially if this conversion is slowed or complicated. and so that's something i'm really looking at. obviously, i think this offer, you know, has a lot of problems with it, but i, i do bet that there are some investors saying, you know, we take the money at this point because the world's gotten more complicated. we've got new competitors, deep sea and so on. so there's unease in a lot of corners, i think. >> so that's interesting. do you think that, you know, you look at a thrive, which obviously led this last round at $157 billion. again though, all the valuations that we're talking about. and again, we're talking about a not for profit and a profit. so it's different maybe different apples and oranges but i don't think

so. ultimately you know if you're a thrive at $157 billion now they got in early. so they'd still make an enormous amount of money. do you think that there's folks in the investment community saying, you know what, take the money and run. this is like twitter. >> i don't think thrive. i think thrive is all in. and josh is going to ride this thing to the moon or not. but i think, you know, openai has so many early investors. and, you know, there's always a lot of nervousness about how they were going to get their money out. i remember asking investors years ago before the conversion was on the table, and they said, secondaries, we'll get it out through secondaries. so it's always been an open question. and i think if you look at these prices, maybe not 97, but but maybe and certainly 300, you know, investors are starting to wonder. >> you look at this board though, and you could argue that sam is either consolidated power but or whatever you want to say about it. but it's not a elon musk friendly board. i mean, larry summers just, you know,

penned an op ed in the new york times yesterday going after elon musk over doge. yeah, yeah. >> no, i think sam has built a solid board and also a. >> board that. >> is there to support him. this board came out of his return to power at openai. again, as. >> we reported yesterday, the board is going to officially reject this offer, and i think they're all in alignment there. but, you know, this is a. busy board. it's trying to pull off a very complicated conversion while continuing to monitor the progress of this company. so it really is quite the drama. >> jessica. it's an unfair question to ask, but if you were writing the choose your own adventure version of this book, what would be the final chapter? >> oh goodness. >> i hope. and how does this end? how does it end? just take us to the just take us to the end. >> to the end. i think in the end we've got, you know, 4 or 5 companies that run the, the major foundation models. and i

think openai is very most likely one of them, along with google and microsoft and meta and so forth. and i. >> also think. >> andrew, in the end, the differences between them become kind of smaller and smaller because the technology will progress and they'll learn from each other. you know, in the business front, i think the end if with musk owning twitter and sam being sam and all these tech ceos really flexing their pr muscles at the moment, i think, you know, we see more public brawls because the stakes are pretty high. so i don't think there's peace at the end, but maybe there's some homeostasis. >> jessica lessin, the information. thank you so very, very much. and we should mention you don't want to miss this tomorrow. we've got one of elon musk's pals and yes, investors, joe lonsdale, whose firm eight vc is now part of musk's consortium, to make that bid for openai. he's going to be with us tomorrow morning in the 7 a.m.

hour. >> that's pretty good. coming up, house majority leader steve scalise going to talk budget negotiations with us, going to be one big, beautiful reconciliation bill. maybe squawk box will be right back. >> think equity. >> financing growth. think equity. >> think equity. >> funding innovation and growth. >> think equity. >> learn more today. >> at think equity. com. >> most power players on wall street. rate nvidia a strong buy today. yet why then are so many legendary investors quietly ignoring that advice and instead selling the stock hand over fist? every billionaire on your screen has recently sold nvidia. some have offloaded millions of

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thank you. you read the headlines. you see all the scuttlebutt in the newspapers. we can barely take what's been happening since january 20th without you gentlemen. really? and ladies being involved, what do you have in store for us? >> well good morning, good to be with you. and there's a lot of good things in store. you know, every step of the way. since president trump was sworn in, now in his second term, we've been working with him very closely on the things they're doing. you know, clearly with what the doge is doing, we're working because some of those items are going to have to be done legislatively to get rid of that wasteful spending, but also on what we're going to do to get our economy growing again. that's really what we when we get into these budget talks and ultimately the budget reconciliation process to lock in the trump tax cuts, many of which are expiring at the end of this year, we sure don't want to see a massive $4.5 trillion tax increase. so we have legislation

to prevent that, to produce more energy in america. some of that takes legislative action. clearly, we're working with president trump on what he wants to do to open up more energy in america. that's going to bring in more revenue, by the way, create more jobs, lower costs for families so that you can lower inflation. build the wall. president trump needs funding to build out the wall to give more technology to our border patrol agents. like drones, like night vision goggles, so they can better secure our border. that's going to be in this bill that we're putting together as well. so a lot of work has been going on behind the scenes for weeks now. but it's time to, you know, put that. down on paper, start getting the committees directly involved and working so that we can move this legislation forward. >> in one bill. that's what it. >> looks like. one bill. >> one bill. that's what it looks like. and the in the house, the margins are even narrower than during the first trump presidency. you lost 22, i

think in that vote. but you're not going to lose anyone. do you think you'll lose. everybody's on board at this point. can you tell? >> yeah. and that's what's so different about this year than 2017. you know, you think back we lost, as you pointed out, 22 republicans just on the budget before we could even get to the tax cuts and jobs act, which really revolutionized our country, made our country competitive economically again. before we could even bring that bill to the floor, we had to pass the budget first. losing 22 republicans this time around, we can't lose two republicans, you know, one, maybe not even two. and so we're working very closely with all of our members, as you know, not all of our members see everything the same way. so we're having a lot of meetings with a whole cross-section of members. they're given a lot of input. you know, they've got their ideas. but ultimately we've got to bring all those ideas together and put it in one bill, and then everybody's got to vote for that one bill. and so we're getting closer. you know, we've

narrowed a lot of those differences over the last few weeks, but we still have 1 or 2 final pieces left. and i think we're getting closer on narrowing those as well. then we can move the bill out of committee. >> i mean, you want to do a lot that that that sort of hurt revenue. so i'm imagining there must, must be big cuts in vision somewhere, either during the budget process or reconciliation. how is it 2,000,000,000,002.5 trillion? what what are what kind of numbers do you think are feasible? >> yeah, those are the things that are being negotiated. you know, we're already all the way up to $1 trillion and more in identified cuts and savings to taxpayers. and i'm talking about common sense things like just social security verification in some of our big programs. i mean, you've got illegal aliens getting major benefits, medicare, which they're not even legally eligible to get because there's not enough verification, you know, so you've got a program that's potentially headed for bankruptcy for people

who actually paid into it, who deserve to get that benefit. and yet there are thousands of illegal aliens that are getting on that program, costing it billions of dollars that shouldn't even be on it. that's going to be something we go after. work requirements is another thing, you know, so you can get up to some really big money. billions here, billions there. it adds up quickly. but ultimately then you also have to count in economic growth, because if we lock in the tax cuts from 2017, which really got our economy moving, created millions of jobs, there's a lot of uncertainty right now in the economy. i'm sure you can see it. people don't want to make investments because, for example, the 199 a goes away. that's a big deduction for small business owners so that they get an equalized tax rate as as our corporations do. if you take that away, every small and medium sized business in america becomes uncompetitive. you can't let that happen. but that creates uncertainty. if we lock these rates in, it'll bring a lot more investment into the economy. if you open up more american energy, it brings more,

billions, more investment into america's economy. so that growth also factors into offsetting this bill so that it becomes becomes deficit neutral. >> is there a close scrutiny of medicaid? is something going to happen there? i mean, it has expanded enormously in recent years. is something there on the table? could it be on the table? >> well, we're looking at different things obviously work requirements and medicaid is the place you would start. and as you pointed out, you know, even going back to covid, medicaid mushroomed exponentially, adding millions more people onto the program that did not were not on it before, that had private insurance, other forms of insurance. and now the taxpayers of america are picking up that tab. and again, when we're running deficits to be adding more people on to government programs and taking them off of private sector insurance, it

doesn't make a lot of sense. obviously, that was done when the government was spending trillions of dollars under the biden-harris administration, and that drove inflation. that drove a lot of the high costs you pay at the grocery store and other places. and people want us to get that under control. we're working to get that under control. i think that's why people are really excited about what the doge is doing to find savings, identifying a lot of this ludicrous spending at so many of these federal agencies that are not working for the american people, federal workers who aren't even showing up to work yet, getting paid over $100,000 a year while american citizens have to show up for their job. these are the disparities that people are fed up with that are finally being addressed. >> 92 192 rep majority leader, what do you and i guess we need a quick answer, but you're expecting help from doge. are we talking about a trillion there? and then it would be reflected

in what you do with budget and reconciliation. some of the advice. >> elon musk feels he can get. yeah, elon feels he can get up to $1 trillion, which is separate than the trillion we're working on and more. and we're looking at other things beyond $1 trillion. but we're we're at least there. >> well, i don't know. it may not be good for the media, for you to pile on to everything that's already happening. can you delay this a little while, this whole budget thing, or there's. >> a lot going on. but but get used to it. this is how president trump works. you know, he came back on the second term really focused okay. >> we're ready for it. don't think about us. don't worry about us. we'll cover it. i don't. >> y'all are going to be able to handle it, but we're going to deliver a lot of results for hardworking families. >> all right. well, we want to have you back to talk about all this again, majority leader. thanks. >> look forward. >> to it okay. squawk box will be. >> right back. >> we're standing. >> up for our right to be lazy. >> we work hard. >> we deserve. >> to scroll hard.

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mutual, physicians mutual. >> all right, let's. >> take one more look at the markets before we hand things over. you'll see right now, we're still in negative territory. dow futures at this point down by about 137 points. nasdaq is off by 162. the s&p futures down by about 28. treasury yields have risen overnight. you're going to see that right now. it looks like the ten year is sitting right at around 453. the two year is at

429. and oil prices which yesterday had risen as well are up another 1.5% today, $73.40 a barrel for wti. that does it for us today. but we will be right back here with you tomorrow. >> cpi or cpi. >> that's i. >> forget which. one's first cpi. one's tomorrow. >> one's thursday. we also have today and tomorrow powell speaking before congress. we'll see you tomorrow. right now it's time for squawk on the street. >> good tuesday morning. welcome to squawk on the street i'm carl quintanilla sara eisen, mike santoli at post nine of the new york stock exchange cramer and faber have the morning off futures a bit red ten year back above four and a half as the president signs those tariffs on steel and aluminum. and the eu pledges retaliation. powell's on the hill. they'll likely be a lot of questions about all of that. our road map begins with elon musk, though, escalating his feud with sam altman and openai, making this $97 billion bid