we want an ai platform for ios. as we push out the next version of the operating system, we want everybody to be able to do apple intelligence on it. >> meantime, tomorrow we get flash pmis. we have final michigan sentiment report and the inflation expectations that come with that report. that's going to do it for us here at overtime though. >> fast money starts now. >> live from the nasdaq market site in the heart of new york city's times square. this is fast money. here's what's ahead this hour. financial flop. bank stock investors taking it on the chin today. some big names seeing their worst drop in months. walmart getting walloped. it rolled back its stock price. but it's had an epic run. so what's the real story around walmart plus? baba's bounce gets bigger. >> wow. alliteration. >> meaty beaty. big and bouncy. palantir cashes out to its worst two day run in over a year. and cruise stocks. tim. >> yes. how about them?

>> they got. >> docked, they got docked. >> they got docked. i am brian sullivan in for melissa lee tonight. and as always, we are coming to you live from studio b at the nasdaq. and on your desk tonight, mr. tim seymour, karen finerman, dan nathan and guy adami. good to see you. i have not been here in. >> can we clap? let's clap. >> so this is the first time since that. >> new show. >> by the. >> way, can we start by saying the. >> show. >> with you. and kelly. >> is fantastic? >> it's one of the top 12 or 13 shows on the network. >> without question. >> you complement each. >> other extraordinarily well and i'm happy for both. >> of you. >> i don't know where this is going. he's so nice. what? a handsome guy. adami. thank you. all right. >> let's kick. >> let's around. >> he's always. >> like the live shows. already sold out. let's kick it all off with your money today. and let's be honest, it wasn't a great one. walmart posted its worst day in more than a year. we're going to dig in more on walmart in just a second because up first tonight a big bank breakdown. financials. the worst performing of the sector today.

goldman sachs morgan stanley jp morgan citigroup all down. in fact goldman sachs guy your old company single handedly cutting 180 points off the dow jpm lopped off another 76. but the real interesting action i mean, if you really want to get under that hood, look at some of the more m&a focused names. i'm talking, tim, about the molson companies, i'm talking about the evercore, i'm talking about the lazard. president trump signaling this week that he would keep strict joe biden era merger guidelines in place. karen, we'll kick it off with you because you actually pointed out this action earlier today. >> yeah. so all the banks got hit, but they seem to be getting hit differently. and the ones that did seem to have big m&a businesses seem to be getting. >> hurt more. >> i think it was on the heels of that. they've had a big run though. part of the story that's been that's made the banks such a good place to be is not only obviously regulation and, you

know, a pro business environment, but the idea that m&a would be coming back with a vengeance, that it would be easier to get deals done. and who who really benefits from that? the big ones that got hit the hardest. i still think the bank story is intact, although the first quarter looks like first quarter m&a will be disappointing and maybe it will continue to be disappointing. but all of those other things are true. asset wealth management is great. i think debt and equity markets will be great and i think the economy is doing well. so i'm sticking with the banks. i definitely have less money today than i had yesterday, but that's okay. >> you're going to be just fine, guy. here's the thing. we're very we're in tv, we're very simple folk. we like to say big words like banks, but all banks are not created equal. >> i like how. >> he's drawing you. >> into this, by the way. >> you know, you're. part of the week here. >> he's very hands of the week and intelligent. by the way. >> of course. >> both are true. >> both are true. but you know what else is true? evercore and lazard make their money in very different ways than goldman sachs, jp morgan chase and others. and i think the market figured that out a little, a

little bit today. >> although, first of all, i can't explain a lot of the things that are going. >> to see what you did. >> there may be a big. >> imbalance first song. >> on the album. >> yeah, but i'll say this, i thought mic should have been down more given. >> the. >> run that it's had, and given the fact that we traded up to levels we last saw in 2021, if the staff wants to put up a chart, you'll see what i mean. in terms of goldman sachs, we're basically just wearing this is something karen will say a lot. we're just where we were a week or so ago in terms of the stock, because it's had. >> a monumental run. >> what i also say. >> though, is, you know, a lot of. >> the enthusiasm. around the banks is based on exactly what we led the show with. so maybe a little the bloom is off the rose, but i think certain banks are intact. and i'll say this city which hangs in there like a champ, i think is still a place you. >> want to be. brian. >> you know, look, the activity. >> today was. >> was disappointing. >> for. >> banks, but i would say the kids are all right. i mean, you've got a case here where deregulation was part of the

theme. banks are actually giving capital back. i you know, as much as you hear biden era regulation certainly around m&a and yes, that could throw you back a notch. but what we've seen in terms of the rerating, the banks, it hasn't really necessarily. been to me that their m&a business was going to go soaring. it's that the core business that they do have, which is a steeper yield curve, net interest income, more credit dynamics. the world is seems to be awash in liquidity and regulation is their friend. in other words, lack of regulation is their friend to me. if you think something changed through that rhetoric, then you've been investing in the wrong. that is it. it's not. nothing changed. >> nothing. >> nothing changed. they had a good run. cameras, right. these are banks that have had a good run. if you wanted a reason to sell a headline, this was a good headline. it didn't change the investment profile of banks. >> who's next? >> seemed like something changed. >> who's next? >> yeah. you're next. >> different album. >> yeah, but it's a good album to 71. >> so look that up. >> i'd like to get to the blue eyes and see what his opinion is. >> he doesn't have one. >> the last time jp morgan was down more than 4%, it was on september 10th. and i think it's

really interesting because again, they had i think they were speaking at a conference. >> the ceo. >> and he guided net interest margins lower than expected. i remember us talking about that a lot. right. so think about this. the ten year yield was like 3.65 back then. and we. have now the ten year yield at four and a half. wouldn't you think that that is one of the reasons why the stock has appreciated so much over the last call it five months or so. and when i think about what tim just said is like that was a headline, it was more geared towards. >> the. >> investment banks, make no mistake about it. i mean, jp morgan is right up there with morgan stanley and goldman sachs now tier one investment bank. and you look at this as a money center bank. also you would think that they'd be benefiting from this right. so it really says to me that the stock was 216 back then. it was 267 or something like that. just yesterday people were looking for an excuse to. sell these things. i mean, that's as simple as it gets. and we're seeing that in other parts. >> of the market. >> i guess. what's dan, what's the relationship between investing in these companies and ten year bond yields? >> well the net interest. income is. >> really part of the yield

curve. the steepness of the yield. right. and how jp morgan's positioned. >> for it. >> yeah. bank of america. >> that's a whole. >> other that's. >> a whole other story. >> yeah. >> but let's go to the m&a banks first. >> yeah. >> well it's important they would benefit from lower lower lower rates i would think. well private equity money sloshing around. >> so but we haven't seen meaningful m&a so far. and maybe you could say well the inauguration was just, you know, a month ago and that sort of thing. and i don't know what the ipo pipeline looks like. we keep hearing about this huge backlog. we keep hearing about, you know, a lot of the, you know, intent for strategic m&a. we know that private equity wants to do stuff. so again i mean we got to see how things, you know, kind of start going. >> i just feel like if you're worried about banks, you would be worried about the labor market. you'd be worried about the consumer. you'd be worried about credit. you know what we heard out of jobless claims, what we heard out of walmart. i mean, i think you can see for miles that this is a case where the consumer is in a pretty good spot, and therefore there's no reason to run out the door on banks. hey, take some profits. but i think this is working tonight. >> run out of songs for the eight blocks over final word on the banks, guy adami. well.

>> i mean, you should, i think, be a little concerned about the consumer. we talked about it last night. delinquencies are up in. >> a pretty meaningful. >> way. >> that nobody. >> seems to be talking about. again, a lot of this is predicated on. >> an. >> employment picture that looks great below the surface, that things to be concerned about. with all that said, i do think certain banks are really interesting. goldman sachs, you buy the sell off and citibank i think gets to 90 before it gets to 75. >> it's the 9475 right. banks are down. let's get back to walmart walmart stock having a bad day down about 7% walmart telling investors that profit growth likely to slow this year. in fact, walmart was the worst performing stock in the dow today, at least on a percentage basis. how justified was this pullback, dan on walmart when? let's be clear, walmart is pretty known for setting the bar low so that they can beat the bar later. >> yeah. and you know. >> what bar. >> rallied a lot i mean this stock doubled in the last year right. and so it's trading at value. we talked about it last night before the print. it's trading at valuations that a lot of retail investors you know had probably a difficult time you know digesting. but the stock kept on working and working and

it kept on working relative to a lot of its competition. and when you think about it, more than half their sales come from grocery. and there's some interesting dynamics as it relates to inflation and the sort of folks that were coming in there and why they kept on coming in there and what they were able to kind of upsell or whatever. i would also add that, you know, e-commerce growth disappointed a little bit on a, you know, on a quarter over quarter basis. right? it decelerated a little bit and it gave weaker than expected guidance. so the stock was up in a straight line over the last, you know, three weeks or something like that. i think it gained more than 10%. so it's given half of that back. >> i thought the quarter was great actually i think. >> so that was. the story. >> that i owned the stock, i owned it going in. it was expensive, you know, it was very expensive. >> you sell it today? >> no. definitely not. i think that the quarter was really good. and what dan talked about was the guidance to me. the guidance seemed to be sandbagging somewhat. why not say we don't know what's going to happen with tariffs? because they don't, right? why not say, let's be a little conservative because we don't know how things are playing out. and that's what they did. and i think that as good as the quarter was and i thought it was very good, this

just wasn't enough to keep the momentum. and then on a day like this, you know, at one point it was down maybe four, four and a half bucks. the call was really good, i thought. and then when the market sort of went, it went down another, i don't know, three bucks. so a very bad day for walmart, which i am. but to me the story didn't change. >> yeah. now you've been on the magic bus, brian, if you've been riding this stock and i think it's a case where if you listen to what they told us, sna is the percentage of sales was was higher. and so this has been a margin improvement story that's been part of that ride on that magic bus. in other words, this has been a margin improvement story for this isn't a growth company. it's not a tech company. it's been a margin story because they made major investments into technology, into infrastructure, into their digital. the good news is we heard stuff their their higher income cohort is alive and well. people still like to go in there and find value and convenience in a group that's making more than $100,000 a year, that's fantastic for walmart. and the other part of it is 30% of their digital sales. people are actually taking on the higher

delivery costs. the convenience factor, that's high margin. again, this is this is not a bad it's not a bad number. it's just this stock shouldn't have gone. what shouldn't have done what it did. >> a huge number of people buying off their phones. you would say they're going mobile. for more on walmart's numbers, let's bring in somebody who knows something about walmart. that is bill simon. he is the former ceo of walmart usa. he's now in darden restaurants board and is the chairman of heinz brands. bill, you just heard this conversation. what was your take on walmart's quarter and more importantly, its guidance? >> yeah. you know, i'm just a lowly retailer, right? >> what do i know? >> it's you know, i thought if you hit your numbers and did well and. >> beat your earnings, things would usually go well for you in the market. but little do we know. >> you got to have some magic dust. i mean, i don't know how you could. >> have done much better for the quarter. >> i actually. >> thought their guidance was pretty strong. >> given the fact that, as somebody just. >> mentioned, really, nobody knows what's going to happen with tariffs. and they were still. that confident. >> to.

>> you know, to continue to show a plus. >> four to. >> call for a plus for next. >> year and, and. grow profit. faster than. >> sales to continue to. develop leverage. >> so all in all a good. quarter i think. >> what what happened the mexico and china tariffs are delayed. what happens if and it's a huge if i and i know that i want to be very clear i have no idea. maybe one guy in the planet that knows exactly what might happen if we get those tariffs. what happens to walmart stock? >> nothing. >> you know, because ultimately the consumer decides whether there's. >> a tariff. >> or not. >> are they going. >> to. buy the product or or are they. >> not going to buy the product? are you you. >> know, there's a tariff. >> on. >> avocados from mexico. do you have guacamole with your chips. >> or do you. >> have salsa and queso where. >> there's. >> no tariff? >> with a. >> big company like. >> walmart, you know. >> the big. >> guys walmart. >> costco. >> target. >> amazon, those guys have the supply chain and the sourcing capability. >> to mitigate. >> tariffs by, you know. >> redirecting the product.

>> bringing it in from. >> different places, developing their own private labels. >> those guys will figure out tariffs. i'm not really worried about that impact. i would say, you know they're there with their guidance. they don't know. >> so it's. >> hard for them. >> to. >> build it in. but the fact that they gave, you know, guidance. >> of, you know. >> sales increase of a. >> of four. >> and a. >> and a profit. >> increase growing faster. >> than the rate of sales. >> in that. >> uncertain environment, to me is a very. >> very positive. >> indicator of the consumer. >> yeah. bill, i. >> know. >> you watch this show and you're on it often. so thank you. you also know collectively we've been extraordinarily bullish of walmart for a while. what we were saying last night is though given the valuation, they really needed to knock the cover off the ball, which it was a great quarter. not good enough. i guess the question to you is, you know, what. >> is a. >> reasonable valuation for walmart, given they're operating better than anybody right now in the entire space? >> well, if. >> you like walmart, if you like what they're doing, which is building a digital business and,

and sort of reshaping. >> the company. >> obviously they reported operating income for the year. of around 29 billion. that's about what they earned ten years ago and operating income. but they did it ten years ago on 450 billion. and now they're doing it on 650 billion. because they're building this digital business. if you like that story yesterday before the earnings release, you should love it today because it's 6. >> or. >> 7% cheaper than it was yesterday. if you don't like it, you you know, you probably still don't like it. >> bill, it's karen, thanks for being on. so a lot of times when you're on we talk about the target walmart disparity. and so looking at those earnings today we know obviously target doesn't have the grocery ability that walmart does. but some of the other categories were good. what's your read through to target. >> well i actually think i'm hopeful that it's encouraging for target as well. you know they've obviously they've struggled because they don't have the food mix. but when you break down the category, category by category, the results. >> over. >> the last couple of years

have. >> been remarkably similar. >> they've been. >> up. >> you know. up where walmart is up and down where walmart is down. but their. >> mix doesn't. >> you. >> know, net it out. >> the same way. >> and walmart's. report of general merchandise growth for the second consecutive quarter. after a couple of really awful years is really encouraging from both a, you know, a broad consumer perspective and for, you. >> know, a. >> general merchant like target. so i'm i'm optimistic for target as well. i'm hopeful. anyway. >> i do wonder if walmart's still charging that quarter for coffee in their waiting room. if you go to see walmart it was famous. you'd go to bentonville. and what are you waiting for? they would charge you for the coffee. >> while you're pitching? >> yeah, all the sales people would go down there and they would. i know that because my wife is a consumer products, they were kind of they were famous for beinghat concerned about. maybe that was a bill simon invention. bill. bill, we appreciate it. thank you very much. so here's the thing, karen, as an owner of walmart, and you asked the right question obviously about target. do you

worry about the valuation though? >> yes i do. >> walmart is not a cheap stuff. >> no, no it's not it's not. and you know, one point walmart was so cheap relative to amazon that hasn't you know that that differential is gone. i don't know how much value aws for. its not cheap, but i think i like what they're doing. i like the momentum and i think they were low balling their earnings. >> you know brian. >> 25 for. >> a long time people have wanted to try to substitute target for walmart and that's been the wrong trade. but as we've come to learn, it's not my generation's walmart. so i think you're looking for a place to buy this stock tim, not sell it. and i got two in there as opposed to your job. >> but you but i'll tell you what i think you're not going to get fooled again if you buy target and put a pair of trade on and sell walmart here. the disparity and we're talking about nine turns on a p e multiple. that's one you want to own. i'm long walmart i've been long walmart for a long time. i'm also a long target at these levels. >> and i want to be very clear, folks to the audience that i'm

not leading this charge. i'm just a seeker of truth. >> are although you did start this. >> dan, final comment on walmart and or all retailers. >> i think that, you know, if you're concerned about walmart and expectations in the print, you got to be concerned about costco. it's got a similar sort of dynamic, a similar sort of setup here. there's probably some better valuations with similar sort of setups, if you will. maybe you're tj or something like that, or trading at reasonable valuations that might do well in a more inflationary environment where we're seeing tariffs and the like. so i got nothing else for you. >> well that was great by the way. it has been amazing ralph lauren tapestry. they basically doubled in a year. those stocks have been red red hot but big lots going bankrupt. it's like you got to pick the management team. all right. coming up. gold shining bright gold settling. closing in on the $3,000 mark on pace for its eighth straight week of gains. but there's a lot of talk about, you know, fort knox and potential audit. we're going to talk a lot more about all that. plus the s&p 500

pulling back today from its records. is the market a little bit on edge because of tariff uncertainty? david zervos coming up. we'll talk to him about that and what the fed may really be thinking coming up. >> you're watching fast money here on cnbc. we'll be right back. >> individually each of us is great. but from here you can see we're one big team at atlassian. we believe real progress takes all of us working together on new sources of energy, cars that drive to the future, even pizza deliveries. together we can go beyond where we've ever been collaborating from anywhere on collaborating from anywhere on everything. atl at ameriprise financial we know our clients are so much more than clients. they're go-getters and game-changers, legacy-leavers and visionaries,

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reminder. >> smart buy. got it. >> got it. >> boss otter. >> you got this. >> all right, welcome back to fast money. if you haven't noticed, gold continues to go higher. hitting yet another new high today. but the president raising concerns over the country's reserves of gold, saying that his administration is going to personally, i think, physically go check fort knox to make sure the stockpile is all there. here's what former treasury secretary steven mnuchin had to say on cnbc earlier today about a potential audit. >> the gold was there when i visited it. i hope nobody's moved it. i'm sure they haven't. i was the first treasury secretary to go there. and i think. over 50 years. >> there's very. >> serious security protocols in place, obviously to protect the gold that i can talk about. but

we. went we. >> saw it. and i. if president trump wants it. >> to. >> be audited, that's obviously something that can be. >> easily. all right. so tim, aside from some of the internet stuff that's going around, which is why we actually are asking whether or not the gold is there. what do you make of gold and the trade? >> i don't need this treasury dynamic to be giving gold this rally. in fact, i don't think that it is. look at the correlation of where the dollar peaked in this last up and what's been a great three year trading in gold, even at times when we've had the dollar be pushing to all time highs at least over the last couple of years. and we've had a challenge on rates, we've had a challenge on inflation. this is a story where, again, i think the trade is more in the gold miners. and i think it's a case where if you own the gdx or if you own the a in the clam. by the way, agnico eagle is one of the largest positions in idaho, which is an etf. i manage, and the reason is the operational leverage in gold miners at this point, at $3,000 an ounce, or almost with inflation under control. and they've kind of right sized a

lot of their operations. gold miners are wildly interesting here to me. and again, they don't always trade true to the underlying price of gold. but gold isn't necessarily rallying on this us treasury forecast. this is look at the dollar two month lows today and a lot of other ingredients in the dollar trade i think, by the way global chaos. that's why you own gold. >> 100% agree. and not. >> all gold. >> miners are created equal. we talk about it. i mean you put up a newmont chart that has been awful over the last 5 or 6 years. agnico making all time highs, but the gold story is intact. dollar goes lower, gold goes up, dollar goes higher. gold goes up, rates same thing. i mean, gold has been impervious to things that historically it would be facing tremendous headwinds with. and there's a story behind it. the story being central banks continue to buy at a record pace. so you're not shorting gold here. you're staying long and looking for continued move to the upside. this this trade is still going in my opinion. >> still going. and mnuchin went apparently to fort knox said the gold is all there. all right. there's a lot more fast money to come. here's what's coming up next.

>> stocks taking a leg lower as investors deal with earnings potential tariffs and economic uncertainty. how one top market strategist is positioning next. plus alibaba's having a big year and it's only february. what's behind the latest jump and how much higher can shares go. that debate next. you're watching fast money. live from the nasdaq market site in times square. we're back right after this. >> in the world of investing, a beast lurks. >> between the numbers. some watch from the safety of the sidelines, but others saddle up and ride that. one ton rowdy ribeye for all he's got. if that's you, join us on tastytrade. named best online broker for options trading.

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they need to call it something else. >> the cnbc change makers returns 50 women innovating and driving change. across industries. find out who has made this. >> year's list. meet the new. >> icons, the cnbc changemakers revealed monday on squawk box. >> all right, welcome back to fast money. not a good day for your money. stocks pulling back. the dow falling 450 points. that by the way its worst day since january 10th just over a month. the s&p 500 down a half a percent. the nasdaq also down. but again context is key. you can't go up every day. the nasdaq coming in today with a five day win streak. so it was down today. we'll see what happened. there's a lot of stocks that are trading after hours right now. you know what. we should kill the term after hours. why is that. markets are 24 over seven now. there's no before hours during. right. >> well there are market hours. >> i just think, honestly, if you can buy and sell a stock, it's the market hours. >> but but anyway. >> but you can't sell it the same way in after hours as you can. all right. i think the

market hours are important. >> okay. and after hours trading. booking holdings and rivian are higher after both beating on earnings and revenue expectations. block now trading under the ticker x, y, z for some reason. heading in the other way. it is down right now about 5%. they missed on the top and bottom line. live nation share is not up to 4/10 of 1% revenue coming in above estimates. so booking holdings, rivian and live nation up. and we are seeing robinhood down. celsius holdings are the drink maker the energy drink. that stock is soaring. it's up 29% to exactly $33. they are buying a drink. rival colin called alan new alani nu. does anybody have any idea who that company is? >> no. >> no. >> well, they're paying $1.8 billion for a company called alani new or alani new. whatever. the market loves it.

you know who we love? david zervos of jefferies. we love everything about him. he's a handsome man. we appreciate him coming on the show. he's also the chief market strategist at jefferies. he's a cnbc contributor. david, thanks. i'm not going to ask you about energy drinks. don't worry. we can use the google for that. you know, everything there is to know and more about jay powell. your piece the couple of days ago was a little edgy. is jay powell kind of coming around to the trump way of thinking? what did you mean by that? >> well, brian, first of all just let me say i want to. echo what guy. >> said earlier in the show. >> it's great seeing you and. >> kelly together. it's a lot of fun. it's not one plus one equals two. it's one plus one equals 3 or 4. you guys are are great. and it's been a lot of fun to watch because i've been with both of you guys before solo. >> and i really i really. enjoy it. so let me, let me just and it's nice to it's nice to be here on fast money for, for a few runs. >> so we've been having a good. >> time here too. last time in miami, this time in dc. >> but let. >> me get get to your question,

which is how will jay react to the aggression from trump. >> that is going. >> to last probably through. >> may of 2026. >> which is when his term ends. and i think it's going to be different. >> than 2018. if you remember 18, it wasn't fun. >> he pushed back pretty hard. he said we were a long way. >> from neutral. >> we had a really. >> ugly christmas time in 2018 as the fed got. very hawkish, and then he had to pivot back and he started cutting. i don't think that that kind of line in the sand, that aggression is going to be the same. i think we've. >> seen a couple of his statements that look a little more in line with. >> trump's policies. >> whether it's on bank regulation, whether. >> it's what he said about. >> some of the. >> banking stuff. >> that. >> he was asked about. >> and a number of other. things we highlighted. >> i just i think this. isn't the time for jay to be confrontational. i think he can walk a. >> tight line. >> we'll see. he hasn't said. >> much, but i just. >> don't think it's going to be this, this difficult thing for the market to watch, like in

2018 where fed chair is going one way and he's going another way. >> it's clear. listen, i'm going to say it and david and you can ignore it or you can confirm it because i got this from a guy you know by the name of david zervos. i don't know, i don't think jay powell likes donald trump very much. okay. a lot of people don't like donald trump, but a lot of people are also not the federal reserve chairman of the board. so i only bring that up, david, because i do worry that trump, as a real estate developer, wants low rates, low rates, low rates. even if jay powell wanted to cut rates, i do worry. is there a possibility that powell won't do something he would like to do merely because the president, who he probably doesn't like, wants to do that thing? >> well, i think the answer. >> to that. >> early in his career. >> was more. >> of a yes than it is today. and the reason i say that is right now, jay, and i think you're right about i don't think they're going to be golf buddies when jay walks out in may. i don't think he's getting invited to trump west palm beach. and i

don't think i just don't think that they're they're going to be friendly. that said, jay cares about his legacy, and his legacy is aligned with success in the economy, which is also aligned with the administration. and jay's on the end of his career as the fed chair. he's going to care about that legacy. he's not trying to build the legacy where he didn't want to go down in the history books as arthur burns, or someone that got manipulated by the president. he's already basically said, that's not me, and he's won that battle. he had some scars from that battle, and now it's time, i think, just to play an easier an easier game here into the end. does that mean he cuts a lot of the president wants? no. it just means that it's not going to get aggressive. that's my call. i think that was probably i think it's just an easier way to think about this next year as we transition. plus look you've got the new treasury secretary making some inroads into policy by talking about focusing on the ten year, a place that we

typically associate with fed policy, particularly under qe. so jay's toolkits changing a little. jay's sort of whole structure is changing with the new treasury secretary and a new president. but i think his goals are largely aligned as he walks out the door. in a little over a year with this administration. so why cut off his nose to spite his face? i don't get that. i think i think it's going to be a more cooperative fed in the end. that's my guess. >> david. tim seymour so speaking of alignment, just to oversimplify, our markets aligned with fed policy, in other words, which should be aligned with the economy. i'm trying to understand whether the markets are appropriately positioned for the growth that we see in this economy. or again, do we see a growth scare out there as well? so it ultimately is where equities are interpreting the fed. and in the powell trump love affair. well look. >> i think the powell trump love affair or hate affair or whatever it's going to become just irrelevancy in the end i think is not really the

important driving force of this of this market. the market i think is going to be much more off things like deregulation policy, smaller federal government and some of the disinflationary policies that i think scott spoke about recently, where he thinks we're going into more of a goldilocks goldilocks policy style for this administration. that's what i think the market's going to focus more on. i know we get hung up on tariffs. i know we get hung up on immigration. they certainly have stagflationary tendencies. the question is magnitude. how big are they relative to the positives of stronger growth and lower inflation. that comes from deregulation and the smaller federal government footprint? i think that latter force is much more dominant. that's my bet. that's why i'm very optimistic on risk assets this year. and i just don't think you need the fed to be cutting 50, 100, 200 basis points. in fact, if they're cutting a lot, it probably means something's going wrong. so i think a few more

cuts. great. i think we'll learn that neutral is a little lower. maybe that's going to come later this year or next year, but we don't need it to go up. we've had pretty good runs in the equity market in 2023 and 2024, and the fed was not really giving us rate cuts during that time. in fact, in 23, they were raising rates and the market did great. so i just don't think it's a prerequisite. it's not a necessary condition here. >> well, love having you on. i love the insight. david zervos can handle anything down in d.c. and david, thank you for the very, very kind words. be well, always a pleasure. take on anything you just heard. >> well, i agree with david on the that jay cares about his legacy. right. but i sort of think his legacy is trying to get inflation back under control. whether or not that fits in with where trump is or not, i think he i mean, remember when they said, can you be replaced? and he was no right. will you step down? no, i think he's going to be if he doesn't feel inflation is where he wants

it to be, i think he doesn't cut. >> i just wonder what the fed can do about auto insurance and car and home insurance and things like that. bundle them. >> i have an update. by the way. this is from our crack staff in englewood cliffs and here at the nasdaq. give me a second, please. alani nu. tim, i'm surprised you didn't know this. alani nu is a woman's supplement brand that's very popular. they sell energy drinks, vitamins and workout supplements. back to you, brian. >> and the energy drinks have 200mg of caffeine, which is more than, like, a large size certain, like cafe mocha at starbucks. so you drink it, tim. >> oh. >> of. >> course i'm going out to get myself. i'm going to go to. >> either way. >> whoever lifetime. >> katie hearn founded him. she's now super rich, coming up barely two months into the year, and alibaba's already up more than 60%. we're going to find out what in the world is going on with alibaba.

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>> all right, well, it is not baba o'riley, but alibaba shares are higher. the chinese tech giant saying that strength in its cloud intelligence unit and

e-commerce driving profits higher in the december quarter. revenues also topping analysts expectations, things like that. the meme stock king ryan cohen boosting his stake in baba to $1 billion that, according to the wall street journal. and get this, guys, alibaba stock is now up more than 60% already this year. guys, why do we see more gains? i have no idea what to ask about alibaba because i truly don't understand their business. >> what's been the problem with it. why is it now rallying the way it has? >> when i say one of the biggest e-commerce, it's not a meme stock, one of the biggest e-commerce retailers in the world rises 60% in a couple of weeks. you got my attention. >> it's justified, though. and you know, and tim has views on this as well. there's more to go. now, with that said, this has been a straight line from 80 to 145. it backed off a little bit today. so you're looking for another entry point. maybe it comes in the form of that prior

high 118. but you're finding a place to continue to own this stock. david tepper talked about it. the big short guys have talked about it for a while. we have said many times on the show it's headed to 140. got there today. but i am telling you folks, this still has a lot of runway to the upside. >> well, there's a couple of things going on with alibaba. and let's just talk about on the playing field of what they do. alicloud is the cloud asset, i think, in china. and people are realizing that this is so undervalued. it's been given zero. so this isn't just an e-commerce play. this is much like the plays in the us. it's much like aws. it really is. it's not just about the e-commerce business. alicloud is a lot more valuable. the other dynamic here is jack ma has gone from being missing weekend at bernie's. he's back, and in fact, he's actually sitting there in the same room with xi jinping being a representative of the tech sector of china. this is great news because china's tech arcs are coming back to, you know, essentially to the white house as well. this is a story where alibaba was not sold down to lows of in the in

the, i don't know, high 60s guy, but because of the earnings multiple it was sold because of political risk. it was sold because that you weren't allowed to do a sum of the parts ratio on it. it was because jack ma at one point was well ahead of the government. so where can this go? i think it could go a whole lot higher. and i think if you look at the growth in the chinese internet sector as a whole, pinduoduo, baidu, jd.com, these are companies that all have earnings growth and have since 2021 and only recently have started to price it in. technically, they're through where they needed to be on the charts. you stay long, stay longer. i'm very long. >> i agree with you on the jack ma thing. i think it's huge. it was a discount on the stock because of he was in exile, and then they didn't let them do the ant spinoff. and remember this company has 22% of their market cap is cash. that's extraordinary. >> so i really like it. >> however, all that having been said, i did sell some april 1st 50 calls today for about i think

620, which seemed to me decent. i mean, it's had an enormous run. i think it's still undervalued if it is the amazon of china. and if we do think china is turning or has it has, then i think you stay long in general. but those upside calls seem very expensive. >> to me. kind of amazing. you just you get disappeared for a couple of months. you find religion, you come back, you meet with the xi jinping and everything's fine. stock makes a fortune. we're going to shift gears from chinese online retail to retail here in america. shares of tanger outlets, jumping after their latest results. and the ceo will join us to talk about that state of malls. and you, the american consumer. >> and. >> did you know taking. >> xyzal at. >> night relieves allergies while you sleep. so you wake. refreshed for a more productive day. get 24. >> hour continuous relief. >> hour continuous relief. >> tha ♪♪

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about in the commercial break, though, about the stores, and you had gone in and said, this is how we transformed our business. you're about to drop some truth, but now we're on tv, so just do it while we're on the air. >> sure. well, what we were talking about was. >> a shopping center. >> that's positioned in between two major cities. >> because i've been to your one in howell, michigan. that's what we're talking about. >> on a highway. and, you know, we built a shopping center about a year and a half ago in nashville that's about 12 minutes away from the city. so i think some of the major dynamics have changed over the 30 years of outlet shopping. the most significant of which is we've built we're building them closer in to the communities where the people. >> why does that? why does that? because you're right. they used to be and they still are and sort of far off places. but why does that matter to investors in your company? why do they care where the mall is physically located? >> so if we journey back 30 years ago, the shopping center needed to be positioned far enough away from the department

store business, where most of the manufacturers. who populated these malls, you know, they had their brands, were in those department stores. now, what we're finding is a lot more vertical retailers using outlet to clear excess inventory. and i also think that the consumer for outlet shopping right now is a lot more local. so a lot of those centers that were built in geographies that might not have had a big regional mall in their vicinity. places like hilton head and myrtle beach and savannah, georgia, you know, those cities have now become populated by people. i think post covid, there's a lot of population growth and a lot of those markets and these outlet centers are now becoming the places to go and the places to shop. the transformation that you were talking about is that recognizing the fact that a local consumer is looking for different things and not just an outlet shopping experience, they want better food and beverage. they want places to hang out. they want better experience. they want a movie theater. so we've pivoted our business, transformed our business to include a lot of those uses. >> so, steve, i just realized

our you were the coach for my son for baseball. thanks. nice to see you again. so you must have a really good look at the consumer from all different parts of the country. what are you seeing? >> yeah. you know, i think coming out of holiday shopping, i think the consumer was extremely resilient. you know, our shop, our holiday numbers were great. our traffic numbers were up, our sales numbers were up. and then obviously january, you know there's some significant weather events. and you know typically january is probably one of the slowest shopping months. but, you know, i always look to the retailers as sort of. a proxy for how the consumer is doing in that if the retailers are looking to expand, looking to bring more stores into. our format or any other format for that reason, i think that that's them voting that bricks and mortar retail for them is something that they want to. they want to continue to grow and they want to continue to bring their products to the consumer. the retailers that we're working with, a lot of which are new to outlet now, really have these fairly large

open to buys and i haven't seen any pullback. >> stephen, congratulations on a great quarter. 98% occupancy suggests that you're doing everything right. so again congrats 100%. >> thanks guy. you guys. >> well i don't think you can ever be 100%. >> and that's intentional. >> that's intentional. >> ever play that game. you know you always got to have one space. you can't move anything around. >> nobody ever gets 100% on. >> come on. >> brian, please. >> i was asking a question. >> well, with that said, now you're going to have to look for growth opportunities. so where do you see those growth opportunities? >> well, that's there in a bunch of different ways. well first of all, you just mentioned we bought a shopping center in cleveland. we just bought a shopping center last quarter in little rock, arkansas. so we think that there's great markets for us to expand our shopping center business. but you know, also, if you take a look at what makes up that 90% occupancy, embedded in that number is some short term leases or some leases that are starting to roll. and if you look at our rent spreads that we reported, we reported a 15% rent spread, 13%. rent spread. so a rent spread is the

difference between what the prior tenant paid and what the new tenant is willing to pay. so that means we're growing our rents as we retenant our space or as we renew retailers. and what we're finding is in in the case that there's a retailer who perhaps has lost some market share, sales are going in the wrong direction. we're replacing those tenants with new tenants, new to the business. last last year we added six sephora stores to our portfolio. we had no sephora's prior to that. you're taking space or doing great sales volume and they're paying, you know, more rent than the people that they're replacing. >> the rent spread. you learn any day. you learn something. stephen, is a good day. we learned you were a little league coach and rent spread. stephen, thank you very much. all right, coming up. we're pulling back cruise lines. we're going to talk about all that coming up talk about all that coming up righ at ameriprise financial we know our clients are so much more than clients. they're conquerors and champions, parents and caretakers, believers and breadwinners.

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powering possibilities. comcast business. already asked for a budget reminder. >> smart buy. >> got it. >> got it. >> boss otter. >> you got this. >> all right. not been a great couple of days for palantir, but a great couple of weeks and months and years, but not a great couple days. palantir down 5% today, 10% drop yesterday. palantir is down again right now, which we call after hours. it's off about 2%. the move coming after defense secretary pete hegseth suggesting cuts will come to defense spending. ceo of palantir alex karp also

selling the stock. but dan, let's be clear. palantir still up 40% this year. it's the greatest company ever. >> ever. it trades 66 times sales. i thought the headline yesterday, it was a bit goofy. this is a company that maybe does $4 billion in sales this year. so whatever they're going to cut whatever this doge is doing whatever it wants to do. it's just not going to be it's not going to come from here, you know what i mean? and to be honest with you, if they're doing the things that a lot of investors think they're doing or hope they're doing, it's going to grow. share with the pentagon. >> i love how you just said 66 times sales like it's nothing. >> no, it is something. i mean like it's insanity. it's a $300 billion market cap company two days ago. you know we've never seen anything like that. >> tim seymour, should the cruise lines pay more in taxes? >> look, commerce secretary and friend of fast money howard lutnick thinks they should. and i think the quote is something like, do you see a cruise line ever flying an american flag? no you don't. yes you should. i whether that's a reason to sell these here, i'm just not sure. and in fact, my guess is when we've been tuning into the earnings profiles of these companies, we've been listening for margin. we've been listening for normalizing of essentially

their their market again after covid. that's been the story. it's been an incredible run until it wasn't. ultimately from the beginning of february, i think you stay out of this one for a while. >> in terms of the flag, brian, no, that's a legal matter. >> i was going to say, i think mr. rudnick, who's super smart, needs to get familiar with the jones act, but that's a different that's on the admiralty channel. we're back with final trades right after. >> with allegra. >> i hope. >> you can stop being sneezy without feeling sleepy. >> get 0% brain interference for fast non-drowsy allergy relief with allegra, it's a no brainer. >> disney's snow white. >> in theaters march 21st. >> we empower. >> those who act. >> those who. >> see the correlation. >> between predictability. >> and probability. those who manage. >> risk by. >> anticipating each movement. >> flawless execution. >> timing and accuracy.

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so i say, let a gramps be a gramps. okay, just promise me it doesn't make a lot of noise. (engine roars) (♪♪) go, baby! go! (♪♪) thanks, grandpa! get good at money. so you can be a little bad. empower. >> this was. >> an excellent. >> quarter for disney. >> and the weakness. >> in the stock since the quarter. >> is. >> indeed a clear. >> buying opportunity. >> mad money next cnbc. >> sam, kick off round the horn, please. >> well, it's been. >> of. >> the flag and the kids that are all right. how about the usa hockey team tonight. yes. let's go. oh and e.m. >> yeah we talked about it before. it was good enough for the d block or whatever it was. i would be selling some alibaba short term upside calls. >> selling upside calls. >> if you're optimistic about the deal market coming back, you

probably want to look at morgan stanley and homage to. >> the who. this evening. but brian, it's always an homage to you. it's a joy having you join us. as always, newmont mining should really get on its pony and go higher from here. >> tony i do love it guys. thanks for taking it. this is not this is so much more than just an eminence front. mad money starts right now. >> you're not playing. >> by. >> my mission is simple to. >> make you money. >> i'm here to level. >> the. >> playing field for. >> all investors. >> there's always a. >> bull market somewhere. >> and i. >> promise to help. >> you find it. >> mad money. >> starts now. hey i'm cramer. >> welcome to mad money. >> welcome to cramerica. >> if you're. >> my friends. i'm just. >> trying to save. >> you. >> a little money. >> my job. >> is not. >> just. to entertain you, but. >> to educate. >> but days like today in context. call me one. 873 cnbc or tweet me jimcramer. you might believe. >> you own a portfolio. >> of. >> totally diversified stocks. >> but if you. >> lost a ton of money. >> today you're. >>