what's going to happen to the market. >> the loonie? no, i. >> don't know. i don't know what to what to make of all this. just take a quick final check in the markets before we hand it off to our friends on squawk on the street. you're looking right now at the dow moving down about 46 points, the nasdaq 123 points and the s&p 500 about 16 points. make sure you join us tomorrow. squawk on the street begins right now. >> good thursday morning. >> welcome to squawk on the street i'm carl quintanilla with jim cramer david faber at post nine of the new york stock exchange. futures are a little wobbly, as the president does say. moments ago, the tariffs on canada and. mexico will go. >> into effect. >> next week as scheduled. >> tons of economic. >> data and fed speak today. jobless claims at a three month high. our roadmap. >> begins with. >> nvidia, though the bounce. despite this increased global. >> ai. >> competition, jensen wong says he's more enthusiastic today than he was a month ago. we'll dig into why. >> plus, salesforce shares. >> are under pressure.

>> this morning. >> this follows. a weaker than. >> expected guidance. >> from the quarter. >> ceo marc benioff. also taking some shots at microsoft. >> in. an interview with. jim last night. >> and keep an eye on shares of. tesla looking to reverse a five day slide. >> those shares. >> now down more. >> than 25%. >> that's just. >> for this month. >> let's begin. >> with nvidia's. >> quarterly beat. ai chips fueling a 78% jump in revenue. current quarter sales guidance also above consensus. jensen huang calling demand for blackwell. quote. amazing. take a listen to what he told jon fortt last night. >> feelings about blackwell is better today than it was last quarter. and the reason for that is because we, of course, ramped up into production. we exceeded our target. and the teams did an amazing job. as you recall, we had a hiccup in our design flaw in blackwell that we found early on last quarter or quarter before that. and we recovered tremendously well, and i'm very proud of the team for that. and

so for those reasons, i feel pretty great from an execution perspective. >> a lot of desk notes on it today. jim goldman says, quote, good enough. >> yeah. i mean, this was we were going back and forth this morning and you could just say, look, it was a quarter, frankly, where it's a gpu business. and the gpus number were beaten. i, i think that one of the difficulties of understanding it was the whole china stuff. you can get involved in the weeds with china. what matters is that the chinese initiative is child's play. deep sea can't do it. i think everyone has to start thinking what blackwell does is it reasons. so if you go on to chatgpt right now and you say, is walgreens going to get a bid from rob sweeney at sycamore? it would say sycamore is a company that does retail. rob sweeney used to work at goldman sachs. walgreens is run by tim wentworth. and you'd be like, well, that's particularly worthless. well, what he's talking about is it's going to be reasoning. it's going to say that's a possibility. it might

happen. the balance sheet is not that good. it might do what i do. >> yes. >> your name. >> is. >> i'm completely. >> replaced by mr. blackwell. how are you? >> actually, not a day. it's alive. >> on the one hand. >> now they may split it into three once they actually. are succeeding in buying it. although it's a few weeks away. >> i'm not. >> talking about walgreens. >> right now. let's get back. >> to nvidia. >> well, i'm just saying, okay, that it's maybe john did a great job. and it's really important to try to figure out what happened with the narrative. when i speak with the company, the narrative was frankly, they were shocked that china, that china deep seat would have played any role, given the fact that all the big hyperscalers had placed all these orders, they all knew about deep sea. they're much more into another world. post-trade world. they're literally in a world where they want to have a robot. a robot comes into a warehouse, and the robot looks at the warehouse and says, you know what? i got to put this on a truck. i have to go around this corner. i have to lift it up. i got to be very careful. i don't want to damage the box. where's right? the robot says, tell me what to do.

the next robot says, okay, here's how i'm going to do it. and that's where we are. and that takes it to a whole different level of compute. and it's jensen keeps using the term compute, meaning that, look, we don't just remember they're both accelerated computing and generative ai. the compute is so fast that they can actually do things right now. jensen's famously saying it's so slow. i mean, to us it's fast, but it's a parlor game to him. and this is something that's industrial and will replace all of every bit of computing we have right now. >> meantime, as they move past this, i think they called it a hiccup regarding blackwell. right. once it rolls, though, jim, is this margin guidance into the mid 70s? it's good enough. >> i think it will be even better than that. you know, if you go back, one of the ways to look at and this is one of the things jensen told me, if you go back to last year at this time this week, and you looked at what the stock traded at on forward earnings, it traded at 19 times earnings. the stock always looks expensive. and then when we get there the stock turns out to be very cheap. so i

could argue if this stock you give it a high you can put a higher multiple and you get to one 5160. but you know david one of the problems is no the number of etfs that point by the. >> way the valuation point. no don't be worried i'm just going to interject here. don't hurt me i mean how. >> would never. >> hurt you jim 163 price. >> target at citi for example, is. 23 times calendar year 26. >> that's very wise person. that's exactly what i'm saying. if you looked at it last year, you would realize, holy cow, this stock turned out to be very cheap. now this is where the hiccup this is not you know, this is not a smooth thing, by the way. the number of factories that are involved, the number of companies involved, the number of touches. this thing is monumental. and it's obviously very big. and jensen still able to pull it off. i regard it as a great quarter. >> what do you make? you know, there is i think the hurt on the street i'm not sure. but a couple of things. >> that well. >> as inferencing becomes. even more. >> the focus so to speak, there are going to be other competitors in a way that there weren't for the training models. >> well, you buy into that. >> i just think you have to keep

coming back to the software and the stack, and you have to come back to the accelerated computing. no one's even near as close. i mean, 25 times, they think that that that that's deep seek is 1/25 of the speed and power of black butler and blackwell. by the way, they had the next iteration is coming later this year, rubin next year. and this is going to be a much smoother ramp because it's the chassis is the same. so anybody who thinks that because i asked them, i said, guys, after what happened, isn't it just could be a disaster, right. and he said, no, no we had the at the chassis. right. so what happened? >> what do you mean when. >> you say. >> after what? >> what happened? oh well, the hiccup is they moved from one particular chassis. you have to imagine like a truck, one particular chassis to another. and it was very hard. they, they mis they misread how hard it would be. but everything else is going to be based on that same chassis. so you're not going to have the same technical difficulty. okay. look, i mean when you if you think about the fact that the they're talking about a lot of industrial uses, they're talking about omniverse

to, to omniverse is difficult. but you have you build a small compute computed factory, you make all the changes in the factory, and then you build a new factory. that is one use that. they're really highlighting. they're highlighting a lot of health care uses. what what's lacking is they did not talk about use cases. that's for gtc. that's their the woodstock of ai. so otherwise you're kind of left there thinking what's going to happen. >> right. so we do have some catalysts coming up in march. >> yes. yes we do. i know i was at a really terrific fundraiser last night at the for the baby's heart fund where my wife, who lost a child and i was talking to doctor pet, and he's really one of the foremost pediatrics. i said, what is this going to be like three, five years from now? and he said, well, what you'll do is you'll say, well, we need a new heart for transplant. and you'll, you'll talk to a machine and say, we need these dimensions and it'll spit out the heart. and i said, well, there you go. use case. we don't

have these use cases because we're so busy focused on the darn hyperscale. >> you think is holding them back from being that aspirational. >> too quick. it has to be faster. we have to go even faster than and faster. they kept talking about speed, speed, speed. no one's listening. we're all listening to whether china's going to get the orders and china's going to beat us. and what's the president going to do? but the issue here is if we can get speed, then we can do something like a baby's heart. i'm just giving you a use case that's so insane. >> so insane. >> i mean. but you have to thin, to imagine. >> but, you know, we can all just say exponential. >> rate of change is something that i think the human. >> brain. >> has a hard time embracing. >> and that is exactly where jensen is, that we're not. he can think of these things. i know it sounds ridiculous, but like jonas has a piece today about about musk. >> he talks about going to london and riding in a robot. not a tesla, but a robotaxi. >> but i just find, look, i don't want to say that we're pedestrian thinkers. i will say that i am not able to comprehend

the things that jensen is. >> right. >> all right. well, the amount of. >> compute then. >> needed is just. going to need so. >> much compute to be able to do a heart. >> by the way, to come back to. >> it, you need. >> so much power, right? >> oh my god. and it can't it has to be cool. and then we go all the way back to the here we come again with the. >> of. >> course. >> but so many different things and the announcements every day and. >> and whether the power is really going to be. >> there even with the potential. deregulation that may take. >> place or whether we're. >> overestimating the need for power. >> or then the others who. contend we have a couple. on our air to. >> say. this has all been overhyped. >> and ultimately the use cases are just not really there. and it's not going to. >> actually, i can't tell you it's not going to. actually give. >> the enterprise what it. >> really is looking for in. >> terms of the spend. >> if you aren't a big thinker, i'm a pedestrian thinker. i can tell you whether nvidia is going to go to 1.35 versus 1.34. i cannot tell you what i could do if i had that compute power. like if you go to jensen's office, he's got this picture of a of a of a rocket. you know, they're basically going how fast it has to go to hit mars. and

he's trying to figure out at what point it has to go to one mile and then reverse. and i said, what are you doing with that? he goes, well, i'm just calculating that how quick it has to go quickly. it has to go. >> is he asking what. you do. >> on mars once you get there? >> that would be a great. that's that's what we think of. but what he's thinking of are things like you can't think of when he was when he had those dogs eating the jello, and then when they picked up the jello and they got it right, and he gave the dog a treat. the machine dog. like what? i said, what are you doing? and i said, but at all times you feel incredibly stupid. and he doesn't make he doesn't mean to have you be stupid. but look, we can't. our brains aren't big enough, all right? our brains are not big enough. your brain in particular. >> my brain is. >> you're so focused on, like, what the other goldman's going to make the quarter. i mean, come. >> on. >> we just need to stop talking when the music starts playing in our ears. right? that's that's the extent of our. >> if you write it, i. >> will read it. >> why should we think that everyone's equally smart in this

world? i call them da vinci because, like da vinci. go to that museum. the guy was developing a helicopter. well, this guy is developing stuff like that. we don't know, right? >> you're going. you're going down the dan ives route, da vinci. >> are going, hey. >> oh, the. >> godfather, that's. >> what he calls him. the godfather. >> the godfather of soul. >> speaking of, there's only one. >> godfather of soul. >> and it. >> wasn't jensen wong. >> and gene wasn't in that movie. just so we know. >> we're going to. well, maybe we'll talk a little gene hackman in a little bit on the. i trade salesforce, of course, under some pressure, pre-market earnings beat the street, but revenues were amiss. current quarter sales guidance a little bit light last night on mad money, marc benioff told jim what he thinks is the real story behind q4. >> this is our. >> first $10 billion quarter. incredible. i mean, we had more than 400 deals over $1 million. but the real story in the quarter, jim, is none of that. and yes, you could talk about foreign exchange. we lost a couple hundred million dollars there. but the reality, jim, is agent force, this is just the beginning of an incredible new

chapter for salesforce. >> well. >> look, marc, is what he's saying basically is, look, the future is going to be this vertical vision force. and stop thinking so small. stop thinking about what would happen with an agent force. and he did talk about stewart miller and what lennar is doing with it, and how they're moving people who are kind of doing scut work into more important things, he said. that's that's the what's happening, but it's not easily understood. i think that the use cases are going to come again and again. you know, what was really the most interesting? and i don't mean to rain on the agent force parade, but they're working very closely on a health care vertical that goes against veeva, which does healthcare tests. did you contact the contract research? they maintain this and they got pfizer, which is the single biggest account out there. they got pfizer and lloyd austin that's lost in the shuffle of aging force. i mentioned it only because aging force is such a big deal in marketing. i had to bring up pfizer. yeah. >> well, we know whenever, you know, ceo comes on and they mention using salesforce,

obviously mark is excited to hear that right. >> on air. >> the well, i mean. >> you know stewart didn't want to talk about at one point. he's like occasionally. >> come back to quality of earnings. just just occasionally nvidia's gaap versus non gaap. >> same $0.89 i. >> think it was. >> remember when mark used to be. >> crm gaap buck 75 non gaap 278 i. >> mean but it's still. >> i got it. >> and by the way it's not a concern of investors. >> i just tell. >> you this on adjusted versus non. >> but i focus on gross margins. we've talked about gross margin. used to be in the 20s now in the 30s. why is that. because of your friends at hedge funds who pressured him. >> the activists who came. >> in at. >> some time back now. >> right. and they pressured him to higher gross margins. >> mark made good on it. >> in fact, kind. >> of. embraced it. >> he did something he did. memo to people who i hate the activists, the activists came in. he said, you know, you guys are brilliant. and then he proceeded to overwhelm them with phone calls. finally they said, okay, whatever you want, mark. we're tired. you're tired. we're tired of you doing exactly what

we said you do. well. >> he did. >> do it. >> robin washington. i saw her after the cfo. >> jim. i mean, the stock. it's not. >> a. >> big decline, but it was it's not. >> it was down 16 at one point and it was at 308 at one point. i said there are heat seeking missiles to drive it back down. it'll go down another five eight. but i think that mark's thinking about something bigger. there's ten more. apparently there's two more matthew mcconaughey commercials coming for those who like those. and they have brought back a lot, brought a lot of business, according to mark. we, you know, woody harrelson, he keeps throwing shade at. >> microsoft, right? >> he keeps. >> that up. >> yeah. so the copilot attack last. >> night. >> the copilot attack was unmitigated. now, i did goad him by talking about a particular posting that said that mark is an empty suit, basically, that he's just like, just kind of playing with them in order to be able to be in the conversation. >> can we take a. >> listen to what he has. >> to have it? >> oh, yeah. >> of course we have it. >> darn it, we're good. >> we got. >> it all. >> this is what it's about. >> oh, they've just got a really

good case of agent force envy there at microsoft, don't they, jim? it's kind of amazing. you know, that's. this is what i was meant to be. you know, you've seen the commercials with matthew mcconaughey. >> well, the insults continue now. they're done with a smile, which makes it even more vicious. look, there's no love lost. there hasn't been any love lost since linkedin, since mark went on linkedin and microsoft came in and swooped in at the last minute, i would say that he's saying, jim, find me someone who uses copilot. find me someone. so, david, could you help me in the find someone who uses copilot? >> i do know some. >> people who use copilot. who without. >> a doubt. >> i mean in an airplane or like the. >> know in their. >> in. >> their work without a yes. in their work. >> yes. are they like for instance, your kids. actually one is my kid. >> well, how do you like that. >> yeah. >> that's terrific. >> yeah. uses a lot of ai. >> it's doing. >> pretty well, i. >> can tell. >> i haven't. >> heard from. >> mark is trying working hard. there's a nice rivalry going on.

>> yeah. >> i use chatgpt all the time. it was really bad yesterday. it was dumb. it was more stupid than a lecture. i feel. >> like your reviews. >> lately of. >> a. >> lot of these are not particularly positive. they are so bad. >> because i got caught using them for something i'm writing and it was so wrong. it was the return on meta, and it was like meta's return since it came public with 17%, and that was not even the category. it was just like 17%. yeah, no, 17%. i was like, no, i went back, i said, i think that's wrong. and it said, you're right. it's 300%. i mean, i can't deal with that. like, david, how about if i did this to you? david? i think that when i look at nvidia, i think they earned a dollar. and then you say, well. >> well. >> it's. >> a good reason to not take what you get from these. >> you have to use. >> all of them. >> you have to use anthropic. by the way, what. >> people do. >> do is cross-reference one against the. >> other. >> against the other. >> but by the time i'm finished with that, i could have hand-counted it. >> you certainly could have, jim. so maybe you're wasting

your time. why do you keep doing this? >> to torture myself. >> okay. >> jim mentions gene hackman. >> hollywood and movie. >> fans are mourning the loss of the legendary actor dead at the age of 95. authorities say he, his wife and their dog were found dead yesterday in their home in new mexico. the santa fe sheriff's office says it does not believe foul play was a factor in their deaths, but adds that an investigation is underway. hackman, five time academy award nominee. of course he won for french connection and unforgiven, appeared in films like mississippi burning, royal tenenbaums, superman, of course, jim, you've got a personal connection to. >> yeah, i was a great fan of gene for a long time. we did move on from when it was. he was a great partner of mine in my hedge fund, and he was a quiet genius. you learned from him every time he came into my office one day. i happened to be a huge gene hackman fan, and he was in the lobby and he said, can i see you? and i said, listen, nobody sees the wizard.

one call. but he was so thoughtful and great, by the way. so many things he did. for instance, he did a painting of me that i've always kept that he but a remarkable man, a kind man, obviously a great actor, one of the most humble people i've ever met. never in a million years. i remember one time when my eldest said to him, you are a great basketball coach. and he said, no, you see, that was a movie. >> yes. >> it is amazing how the latter, his post-career life, was so humble. yes, in new mexico. >> and the. >> times obit today. while some actors congratulate themselves for venturing into the moral gray zone, hackman hasalled it home for so long that we cease to notice his heroes were not perfect and his villains weren't all that. >> no, it's funny, because the movies that he loved, i told him i loved, obviously conversation i love, you know, i loved french connection, which still holds up

so recently. the ones that he loved were very different. he loved royal tenenbaums. he he loved things where he played. he did love unforgiven because that's where i always say deserve's got nothing to do with it, because he said that was the best thing he ever said to me was i was in a couple deals and he said they and they backfired. and he said, jim, sometimes you just get had. simple man. great man. >> yeah. >> one of the one of the cinematic giants we're going to miss. we're going to miss having him. gene hackman was 95. >> the number of public companies is shrinking. while the number. >> of private companies is increasing. at franklin templeton, we're expanding access to the growing opportunity in private markets, offering the potential for greater diversification and

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leader in income alternatives and responsible investing. >> all right. >> nvidia, salesforce not the only name of reported earnings. snowflake another name you follow closely jim stock is going to be up sharply here as we get close to the open. >> well you can rent basically rent the cloud learn how to use it. learn how to use ai. but david i picked this because it's simple. they have what we really want out of a company. and 24% revenue growth and a good forecast. and it's a reminder that there are ways. why is nvidia not up 20%? why is marc benioff salesforce not up. well that's growing at 9%. this is growing at the level people want. and i've got to hand it to sridhar ramaswamy because he took this company over not that long ago. and from frank slootman. yes. had a little bit of a dip, but now it's back. and frank always said it would be back, that just the business could be rocky. that's how i got the forecast is the forecast.

when i said i'm worried about the forecast and he said the forecast is a forecast, that was that was. >> the famous. >> slootman quote. >> that you've. used many times. >> all right. >> and in terms. >> of the forecast. >> here, though, i assume we're. >> the obviously. >> we. >> can see that the market. >> is happy. >> with and the list, the list of customers is so long. it's really great. so you'll see a salesforce down a lot because it doesn't have the kind of growth. and that's all people care about. in the end. they care about big time growth. >> well. >> and a lot. >> of it just comes. back to rising cloud. >> service growth. >> right? i mean exactly right. and salesforce, you'd like to, you know, maybe feel that agent force is not doing well. i think that's totally wrong. but i'm not going to get in the way of anyone who wants to sell something which is really growing at nine, when you've got something that is growing at the mid 20s, like this snow, 24% revenue growth, it's hard to come by. all right. so anyway, simple versus difficult is where i'm presenting it. and we want simple. we don't want difficult. >> but well. >> simple is where investors are

going today. obviously nvidia shares. >> did appear to be up a bit. >> as you point out. >> and salesforce the revenue growth. >> rate there is. not not. >> that far off. no, no the growth rate and the growth rate is incredible. growth rate. >> is incredible. >> but look, the convolution i mean what's the president going to do about china now china is not as important as it was, but it doesn't matter because everybody in the end is concerned about what the president is going to do. and we may you know, you made. >> you mentioned. many times also. >> the at the very. >> end of the biden administration, the new regulations in terms of preventing even allies. from accessing certain chips. >> right. >> microsoft, the journal is reporting. is actively trying to get that changed in the trump administration. >> so is yes. i mean, there are 18 friendly countries, countries that are allowed to have unlimited selling. and they're saying, look, maybe that is a little arbitrary. and they're trying to go over with the president's people about how to change those midnight rules that were put together by the biden administration right at the end of his term. so be aware that there's a lot of moving parts in

nvidia, no moving parts in a snowflake. >> on these tariffs for next week. do we see renewed selling in autos, for example? >> look, i think that mary barra put through that accelerated by and for $4 billion. other than that because of this, you know, her stock sells at 4.6 times next year's earnings, which is really unheard of. well, bethlehem steel told a two times earnings before then went bankrupt two years later. so i don't want to, you know, if you're selling, if your earnings are about to collapse, i don't think it's about to collapse. i think she has earnings to be very hard to figure out for everybody because you have like allison transmissions in guanajuato. and then it goes back to monterrey and then it goes back to texas. i mean, we can't even figure it out. and i think that there's a sense that something has to happen so that we can figure out what it costs to make a call. >> let's get the opening bell here on the cnbc realtime exchange at the big board this morning. it's beverage company

primo brands includes poland spring and saratoga at the nasdaq eight co holdings and inventory capital provider for e-commerce sellers. speaking of e-commerce, watch them ebay at the. open this morning, jim uyghur. >> and their. that's forecast. >> because if you look at the actual numbers. >> you might be. >> very impressed. >> but when. >> you look. >> at the forecast. >> they're very downbeat. >> look, i think there's a lot i think you have to understand that the forecast is playing some real havoc here in a lot of names, and there's a lot of people who just say, wait a second, i thought my company was doing well. i didn't think ebay had to be as negative, but they were. i think it's like sweetgreen. >> i was going to say, if you were going to put together a basket on consumer today, you might. >> throw in. >> sweetgreen, bed. >> bath. >> ebay, and of course, earlier in the. >> week. >> krispy kreme, domino's, you name it. >> i wonder whether we're supposed to be thinking about how much business was really a

service. business was hurt because of california, because again and again we come back. hey, by the way, sempra, a company like very much sre that was a they were down 20% the other day. why? well, because suddenly the public utility holding commission out of nowhere in the last couple of days in california said, you know what we got? we have a problem here. and take a look at that decline. this is a very good utility. we're just beginning to calculate how bad the wildfires really were for business, obviously. and obviously. >> out in california, they're trying. >> to calculate. >> a. >> lot of other things as well. >> i mean you've got a toxic waste. >> zone. >> basically on. the on the ocean. >> i've been talking to people there. just simple things like trying. >> to get around. >> has become even more difficult. >> in terms of commute. >> times and the like. not to mention, obviously. >> to your. >> point, just the economic toll and most importantly, the human. >> yeah, i. >> mean, we haven't talked. >> about them as much, but. >> it's not. >> as though. >> it's off the radar, should never have dropped off the radar. >> it's going to be the redevelopment of it is going to be. >> it's going to be monumental. monumental. absolutely right. but in the meantime, and.

>> even getting. >> how you. >> actually get. materials into the area, given the given the roads, given how difficult it is, particularly that part of right along. >> the in, what do you think about the fact that there were a lot of wealthy people who overindex in the service part of the economy that seem to be just not spending, because they don't know what their situation is? >> that may be true. >> although overall spending. >> continues to be pretty good. i mean, it's the people who are being. >> pressured, those. >> who benefited. >> obviously. >> during, you know. from from higher wages and. covid reimbursements and things of that nature who have cut their spending. >> but generally. >> i think when you talk to banking executive. >> jim, it's. >> it's a pretty good looking picture. still in terms of spending. >> overall, lower cohort. >> obviously is. >> under pressure. >> i had thought that home depot would have talked about it more in a conference call, and they really didn't address it. i mean, that's where you rebuild. that's what there were many years where there would be i mean, homestead, florida, when

it was basically wiped out by hurricane. it was great for home depot for a year. home depot does not talk about something that is great for them. when it's a tragedy. they are not so cavalier as to say, wow, we're crushing it in california. they're better than that. >> meantime, a lot of fed speak is going to be on the tape today. steve liesman has got the first batch for this morning. hey, steve. >> hey good morning carl. yeah, some interesting action in fed probabilities and some interesting fed speak. get to that in a second. markets now pricing. in a second. >> cut this year more firmly and earlier. here are the probabilities. >> you can. >> see that first cut now june ish july even. >> more firmly. and then that. >> second cut. as early as october. even some some. >> pricing in. >> there for. september that had been. >> pushed all the way into january. kansas city fed president schmidt saying, now. >> is not the time to let. >> our. guard down, kind of talking against more hawkish against these cuts had become

more. the fed needs to become more. >> cautious on. >> inflation because of. >> a sharp rise. >> in inflation expectations. you've seen that in. >> university of michigan and the. >> conference board related to tariff concerns. he says there's an elevated uncertainty that could weigh on growth, creating a bit of a. >> pickle for. >> the fed. where it. >> could have to balance inflation on the one. >> hand and growth concerns on. the other. >> on a separate matter. >> worth considering, he says the fed should think about including food into its core inflation reading. >> so guys, interesting push. >> me pull you in this economy right now. this issue. >> of tariffs. >> weighing on inflation. >> on the upside. >> but all the uncertainty weighing down the fed right. >> now cautious. >> and focused. it seems to me. from schmidt's point of view on inflation while the market says, hey, we think the fed could be in the cutting game more sooner. >> carl. >> steve, we got a piece on our website looking at various recession indicators, and yesterday three month tenure spread made little news. is the fed watching that? >> i think the fed. is watching

everything. >> i'm also watching carl as you know. >> these uncertainty indicators. there are economic policy uncertainty indicators. they are at all time highs. and you have a lot of different conflicting forces. out there. you've got forces that suggest. maybe we'll have a. >> spurt in growth. >> and yet all this uncertainty. >> i'll tell. >> you one thing. >> i'm watching. i'm going to watch business investment. >> that's going. >> to tell. >> me whether or. >> not the surveys of. business optimism are translating. >> into real dollars. >> in the economy. >> and. >> then. >> watching the consumer. sentiment numbers. >> and the spending. >> numbers to see if the decline in sentiment ends up bringing down spending. those are the where the rubber meets the. >> road right there. >> steve. >> thank you. >> steve liesman. >> interesting. what else you got? bull bear? the bull indicator is the lowest since june 2022 and bears the highest since september 2022. so you've got it's reflected everywhere, a level of confusion that's turning into negativity. >> yeah guys, i.

>> wanted. >> to point something out. you don't see every day, which is warner brothers discovery. >> shares up double digits. >> not going to see that. >> everyday pay down by 20 billion. rarely. >> if at all. >> i think. >> the core of. >> the strength in the stock is probably. >> a reflection. >> of. >> the 1.3. >> billion. ebitda projection they now have for the direct to consumer business this year. remember, of course, there's been so much focus as there should be on the streaming efforts of many companies to try to even get in the game with netflix, which is sort of game set and match when it comes to its dominance to a certain extent, and its ability to actually garner. real free cash flow. but that said. 1.3 billion in line. >> if not above some estimates. >> out there. >> and overall for. >> the quarter itself. >> as well, i think the numbers at direct to consumer were better than many had anticipated they would be for the company. let me just look here. yeah. >> ebitda was 409 million. >> that was a beat from many analysts. >> direct studio ebitda also.

>> actually was. >> a bit of a beat. >> but again. it is that i think. >> that investors. >> are keying off of because that's. >> been the. >> focus. >> as we know, by the way, linear cable networks not quite as strong. in particular in their shareholder letter, they. >> do call out. >> particular weakness in the. >> advertising environment. >> saying the u.s. linear television advertising. market has deteriorated. >> faster than. >> we expected, as evidenced. >> by our. >> results over the. >> last several quarters. >> but that. >> is being. >> outweighed on the. positive side by that dtc. >> both the numbers themselves. >> and. >> the guidance. >> okay, so given the debt, pay down to intuitive as they pay down 20 billion, then down to 34 billion, at what point would the valuation say of the studio separate from the tv assets come clear? when would people realize, wow, this may be a gem? well. >> when you say studio, you mean streaming? >> yes. >> yeah, that's. >> we could say if you look at

apple show, the apple show, as. >> you start. >> to pay down debt and as you really show an increasing level of ebitda and streaming and the ability to continue to add customers and subscribers, you may start to get a bit of a higher multiple. >> that's what's going on today. >> well. >> yeah, a little bit. and don't forget now it's already coming. >> off a little bit. >> but the company has. >> also put itself. >> in a position through. >> internal restructuring that was not. insignificant to. >> to split. >> at some point, in not. >> dissimilar way that our company. >> is splitting. >> into its cable. >> networks. >> mostly except for bravo. and all the others. and what and what's left? basically peacock and. >> the. >> studio although nbc as well. >> so yeah. >> jim, i think. that is certainly a possibility. >> you're going to get investors. >> more. >> focused on that. >> linear is. >> still, as we know, an issue. and you know, in. >> the. >> question just becomes how quickly. and i think. >> the. >> advertising environment. >> is not. >> adding to a lot of. >> optimism around that.

>> at least as reported additions. the additions are superior to disney. yeah, i. >> believe they were. >> yeah. i mean, nobody beats netflix. >> those numbers in the last quarter, i've said this a number of times were astounding. the subscriber additions, yes, most of them are international. but even domestically, the numbers from netflix. >> were simply. >> game set match in some way. and sure, you're disney or fighting for that number two position. amazon we kind of put aside because it's just not a core business, even though they do compete strongly. but take a look at netflix. look what that stock has done over the last. it's really over the last three years. not even but you can see over five years. and it's. >> just it's just. >> crushed them all. >> but let me pause it. something would an amazon which is fooling around with james bond whatever. just say you know what, we want to own the best studio, the biggest studio in earth. we'll just write a check. would they ever do something? >> i don't know is the answer, i don't know. certainly there has been a view that from. >> an antitrust. >> perspective in the past. no way. things are different now.

and i just i don't know, jim. i mean, you can't rule. >> it out as a possibility. >> i would argue. that if amazon were to ever come at warner brothers discovery and say we want it, i think. >> there would be a very happy conversation. >> i just. >> don't know that that will ever. >> actually occur. >> thank you. yeah. >> very good. >> thank you. paramount, by the way, shares are down. don't forget it is getting it's getting bought that deal i mean we're getting closer and closer to potential. close there. >> but the. >> numbers on paramount they added 5.6 million streaming subs. revenues were up 16%. but again of course. >> you're seeing more pressure. on the linear cable networks. it's going to be. >> very different though. for spinco. >> we are. >> going to. >> be a powerhouse. >> an absolute. >> powerhouse. >> commanding by far the highest multiple. >> in the group. >> given really given you. we got you. >> oh, geez. >> dude. >> can you. >> get this? and you're missing it. there it is.

>> like jack benny, remember? does anyone know jack rochester? anyway, thank you for that. >> you're welcome. you're welcome. and we have. >> to mention. >> so i noticed he never really. >> speaks when we're talking. >> about spinco. >> but he can talk now. >> how's miss doing? yeah, that's what they're all wondering. how's miss. >> jim? >> we're good. >> we're going to watch obviously the tesla, palantir, applovin universe. all these momentum longs can live another day right? >> right. and is it bitcoin. is it a ge piece out today. is there a quantum amazon piece i mean. >> what was that. >> applovin thing yesterday with. >> those two. that was two reports saying that just outright panda. >> bear loves. >> yeah i. >> don't. know what. was going. >> blue horseshoe. there's anaconda copper. i mean those two reports were so negative that i chose to not actually say the charges because, well, i were glad. >> we didn't. and i don't necessarily think we didn't know either. one of the one of them didn't even know if they were

connected to. each other, frankly. >> right. and look, the ebitda is there. but if you say, listen, they inserted themselves when they shouldn't have. i mean, 11. >> is an enormous company. >> still it is 12 billion, as i pointed out a number of times, it made the performance. i mean, a firm like jericho, very, very well regarded hedge fund run by josh resnick. i mean, my. >> god, the year. >> that this. >> thing had, you can see still. >> well, yesterday's decline. >> was significant, even though we really don't understand or know who those people are. >> i know, i mean, look, they did find a way to be able to get people, gamers to place advertising. anyone who can place advertising at. david, you raised a great point. linear advertising going down. so what do you do? do you just does that mean fewer people are advertising? no. you have an oddity placing ads on instagram. you've got a lot of tiktok and you might want to work with app. love it. and because you can get people you couldn't get otherwise. but the charges that were made were scurrilous. how about that? they were scurrilous charges, right?

>> wow. >> wow. >> that's it. >> i got nothing else. i don't want to really give a lot of voice to them because i just don't know. >> who. they were. i didn't know who fuzzy was. a bear. >> fuzzy bear was. >> as fuzzy was a bear. >> yeah. thank you. >> we do have other consumer names to watch. norwegian, for example, was up in the premarket at least. jim. >> yeah. look, i think norwegian again the forecast was not as robust as they could have done. they could have easily said, look, things are really good. royal is doing incredibly well. i think they're doing well. one that i think you want to watch is smucker. smucker had fantastic uncrustables numbers. okay. but then they had not so great the hostess numbers. and you can see it's a tug of war between how great uncrustables is and how whether they can get this twinkie acquisition that they made together. and it is interesting to see a company that has a product that has set the world on fire, which is uncrustables. i don't use them, but i know the nfl likes uncrustables. i mean it. what?

what's so funny? >> the nfl likes them. oh yeah, that's right. >> there was. >> those reports about how many uncrustables they. >> go through. >> i thought. >> it was. >> good and. >> they. >> probably were to combine. let's go to the combine. see they're eating a lot encrusted. >> already talking about the nfl again. it just finished. >> can't we just give. >> it a break. >> were you went nfl i'll do nba weeknights. do you want to do that. >> sure. >> how's it going. >> ratings are not great. must be the nba. >> ratings must. >> be the sixers. >> maybe i watched them last night. i was at the game actually. they they put up a fight. >> they did. >> yeah they did. >> if they had real people they could really do fight. how about constellation brands? we didn't even talk about that. >> yeah. well downgrade today right. >> there's two constellations. there's the good constellation and the bad constellation. the power company. and by the way, constellation brands, not only. it's like a parade of horribles. i mean, we know that beer is unhealthy. we know there's cannabis, but they have mexican beer. the company famously kept saying to me, the president is not going to tariff mexican beer. you can't make mexican

beer in america. well, i don't think the president is all that nuanced about these tariffs. structural, structural decline. >> when a company says it's structural, that's not good. >> structural, bad. >> word structural. >> is very bad. very, very bad. >> what is going on? why people just stop drinking beer. >> they've cut back dramatically. look, david, although biden had better numbers, but people like people thought numbers would be really bad. but the decline in beer is what i had yellow, i had juice, i had texas roadhouse wine. and when their hottest drink is a mocktail, i mean a mocktail, i'm talking mocktail. what mocktail? >> i know. >> i. >> don't want. >> to live in a. >> country where people aren't drinking. >> well, you better go to another country. have you ever see the uk? >> man, they hit it hard. >> do you ever see the degree i have in beer pouring from a guinness in dublin? yeah. >> what's amazing is that like the cannabis etf msos, it's not like that's making up for any

loss. >> not at all. >> not that either. >> no, the stoners aren't making money. beer's not making any money. hard liquor. hard liquor is not horrible. oh my god, the browns people talk about the browns. they're down so much. by the way, if people think agave is doing okay, but that's just because it's not being crushed like everything else. got it? i got a pile. >> on pile on the tequila right now. i got to go after the show. it's going to go up. it's going up. >> you made the. >> point many times. i don't know how much of this is related. >> to glp one. >> it's not people who are obviously cut back on their intake. >> of food, but. >> also. >> of alcohol. >> there's no doubt about it. i'm sure you hear it. i want more than a drink, if that. yeah. >> the numbers are just incredible. people just have shifted to food. what it really is, is they want one beer instead of two. they want instead of having two mortgages, they'll have one margi. and that's the big change. it's moderation. and that is amazing because we've never seen moderation. we've seen people just drink more and more and more. and then the prices went up very big. none of these liquor companies wanted to cut

price. i don't know why they're not. they'll all break one day. they're just going to break. they'll break, they'll break. break. >> we'll see. >> we'll see whether we get some promotions. certainly tariffs are a big part of that business. and by the way eamon javers has some more on what the president did post this morning. hey eamon. >> yeah carl a lot. >> of. >> attention to the president's post on social media this morning about canada and mexico tariffs going into effect on march 4th. what we're told here at the white house is that the president is frustrated with the pace of action on fentanyl, and he has been saying he is saying that on march 4th, he is going to impose those tariffs that he had put on pause 30 days ago. that 30 day deadline is march 4th. he is saying those will now go through. i we are able to report that there is some negotiation ongoing over the state department today, over that with the mexican delegation and the us. but still the president here is signaling that that might be a futile effort, given that he is intending to

put those tariffs in place on march 4th. also, some, you know, questions here about what the president meant when he said in his social media post, china will likewise be charged an additional 10% tariff on that date. the question is the president already put 10% tariffs on china earlier this year? did he mean that he was going to make sure that that stayed in effect? or did he mean an additional 10% for a total of 20% tariffs on china? i've been talking to some white house officials here in the building. they say the president means an additional 10% tariff on china. so the 10% from earlier this year, plus now an additional 10% for a total tariff rate of 20% on all products coming to the united states from china across the board. again, the reason reasoning i'm giving here is that the president is frustrated with the pace of change, or lack thereof, on fentanyl sales in the united states. he feels the chinese could do more. they're not doing it, and therefore he has decided to increase the

tariff on china to 20%. so that might have an impact on, you know, a whole range of prices of american importers dealing with chinese goods. guys, back over to you. >> if there is clarification, eamon, it wouldn't be the first time this week, yesterday epa had to come out and clarify his comments about cutting staff versus spending. it was actually more like 60% of spending, not staff. >> right. so and then yesterday we had this question about there was some some question about whether canada and mexico were being extended to april 2nd or that was still march 4th. so there's a lot of plates spinning on a lot of sticks here at the white house in terms of these tariffs and a lot of deadlines. and so it's easy to get confused. but where it stands right now is canada and mexico. deadline is march 4th. the president is signaling in the social media post this morning that he intends to go through with that on march 4th, because of his frustration around fentanyl. this new tariff now of an additional 10% for a total of 20 on china. and then we've got

that april 1st and second timeline. april 1st is when this report is due to the white house in terms of a study of reciprocal tariffs with basically everybody else on planet earth. april 2nd is the first day on which he could implement tariffs based on that report. so the president is saying in this social media post this morning, he does intend to do reciprocal tariffs starting on april 2nd. what those are, which countries they apply to, what the rates are and numbers are. all of that still tbd. but we definitely have two sets of deadlines now, march 4th and april 2nd. >> eamon thank. >> you eamon javers a busy day. we'll get starmer at the white house as well as we go to break watch bonds. this news from schmidt of the fed today saying and we quote discussions with contacts in my district as well as some recent data suggest that elevated uncertainty might weigh on growth. moving bonds a little bit. ten year 4.28. nasdaq is giving up the opening gains. nvidia is down about a percent. we're back.

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changemakers list revealed. available now at cnbc.com. changemakers. >> let's get to jim and stop trading. >> yeah we've got a crowdstrike puts out a report every year about the really the cyber threats. and this one they talk about north koreans coming into companies actually posing as employees taking data. and it sounds very much like, as i said, george the manchurian candidate. they're masquerading as american employees. another big threat. god, this market is so bad since the tariff news. but anyway, i think crowdstrike is a i mentioned it because cyber is the one area that they can't seem to tax because there's nothing to tax. >> the north koreans. >> i think they were behind potentially. >> that huge crypto. >> oh, the $1.4 billion. >> yeah. they're masquerading as us. and be very careful if you're a company because for remote you don't know that the person is actually working for the north korean state, which is, i think, pretty horrible. but that's what they're doing.

and tonight i've got bank of new york, a bit of a rebranding. and then martin marietta materials. they make rocks. i wonder if rocks could be terrifying. you can't tariff rocks from georgia to florida. no. >> not from there. >> there you go. >> but if the rocks come from somewhere else, you certainly can. >> these are smart rocks. >> i think obviously, an important addition of news there from from amman for the. >> marketplace, carl. >> it crushed the market. >> when we i think we all saw that 10%. it was unclear. it was like because you knew that was already that had happened the. >> 10% on china. >> so now we're talking 20%. >> i just and, you know, minimal discussion of carveouts, jim, either by sector or company. so far, no. despite every attempt by corporates to get in his good graces. >> i did think the constellation was going to have that because of the agave issue. >> 20% tariff on an iphone could be pretty. well, that's. >> why apple went down very badly yesterday. people said, well, wait a second. they paid $500 billion expansion plan. but the fact is, is that if taiwan is suddenly asked to be able to pay its fair way, or if we slap

something on china, well, i mean, does that apply to apple? i mean, it's a fraught moment and i don't want anyone to think that we're that we're minimizing. it's a very fraught moment because the president is in accelerated computing mode on tariffs. >> he's he's adding. >> all sorts of blackwell's to. >> his computer. >> when does he become. >> this singularity? >> i don't. >> know. >> inference mode. >> between yes, pre-training and post-training. i don't know. i mean, look, i try to be constructive about this stuff. last night i couldn't be because i said, look, i these are great american companies and they have no idea what they're doing. they don't know what to. >> do with the uncertainty. >> i think that. >> is the key. >> yeah. they just don't know what to do. how? if you're mary barra, what do you do? like, do you just stop making cars? do you figure it out? >> that's why it has at least been said. we'll watch business spending. jim, we'll see you tonight. important day. thank you. s&p goes red. dollar index back above 107. to speak of this discussion about tariffs. and we'll continue to watch nvidia

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>> for you. >> get invested. join the club today. go to cnbc.com. join jim. >> good thursday morning. welcome to another hour of squawk on the street i'm sara eisen with carl quintanilla and david faber. live as always from post nine of the new york stock exchange. stocks started off higher. then we took a leg lower after president. >> trump announced. new tariffs on china. >> we'll talk about that in a moment. >> but we've gone negative on the. s&p 500 for the day. >> down a. >> third of a percent right now. >> tech is getting hit the hardest. >> down 1.4%. it doesn't help that nvidia is down 4% salesforce down 4%. supermicro down 11.5%. those are earnings stories. >> but the overall market. >> did seem to shift in terms of momentum. nasdaq getting hit the hardest on those tech. >> losers down. >> a little more than 1%. the dow remains higher, just barely. we'll talk about some of the media names that are higher as well. warner brothers discovery

at the top of the market today for a change up 7%. treasuries. got a lot of economic data. >> to digest to talk about. >> we're seeing some. selling of bonds and that pushes yields a little higher. but we're still talking about sub 4.3 levels on the ten year right now the two year yield just below 4.1. we are 30 minutes here into the trading session. here are three big movers. we're watching a bellwether nvidia reporting a top and bottom line beat sales up 78% from last year. solid revenue guidance as well for the current quarter. but there are concerns. >> about. >> margins ahead. we're going to get to the street's reaction in just a moment. salesforce as mentioned also under pressure, earnings beat estimates, but revenue fell short. guidance came in a little bit lighter. than expected. and another morning of consumer results from retailers to cruise lines to packaged. foods all moving in opposite directions. and i'll share some of the commentary in a bit about what they're all saying about the consumer right now. >> in the meantime, let's get some pending home numbers. alix. got that for us. morning, diana. >> good morning carl. pending home sales in january fell 4.6%.

>> the lowest level ever or since. >> the national. >> association of realtors began tracking this in 2001. >> that is. >> a big miss. the street was looking for a 1% drop sales, down 5.2%. year over year. now this count is based on signed contracts. so it's people out shopping in january when mortgage rates were well over 7% for the entire month. these sales are an indicator of future close sales. the realtors did mention exceptionally cold weather as a possible deterrent to buyers, but sales actually rose. >> slightly in the. >> northeast, and they were down in the west where weather was less of a factor. sales fell the hardest in the south, which had been the most active region of the country for sales. now this drop comes as inventories are significantly higher than they. >> were a year ago. >> but affordability is taking its toll. home prices have been easing over the past few months in some areas, but they're still higher than they were a year ago. nationally, consumer sentiment is also dropping, which could be weighing on buyers as well. sarah. okay. thank you. diana i just want to show you the. >> sort of intraday. >> chart of the market here. and

you. >> can see. >> the moment. >> where the market fell as the stock market began to digest what president trump had just posted on. truth social. so the morning post on tariffs. so he's still talking about drugs. he says they're pouring into. >> our. >> country from mexico and canada very high and unacceptable levels. and then he goes through some of the timeline here of when tariffs are going to go into effect on mexico and canada. he says we can not allow the scourge to continue to harm the u.s. therefore, until it stops or is seriously limited. the proposed tariffs, scheduled to go into effect on march 4th, will indeed go into effect as scheduled. he also adds china will likewise be charged an additional 10% tariff on that date. and then, he adds, the april 2nd reciprocal tariff date will remain in full force in effect. thank you for your attention to this matter. god bless america. the upshot we're going to get an extra 10% tariffs on china. >> i think, sir, there may have been just. a bit of confusion around the 10%. perhaps some

people not, of. >> course, realizing that that had already. >> been in effect, i don't know. >> but it was clarified by. >> by eamon. >> javers as well. i did notice the market seemed to react once we got full clarification. not that it wasn't somewhat clear. >> saying additional additional. because remember the. >> first 10% we. >> didn't see the we had not seen initially when we began? yeah. the reaction. delayed shares, for example, turning around. we'll get to them in a minute. perhaps on this. >> so remember the first time around. he announced the mexico canada, china tariffs. he delayed mexico and canada because they were negotiating over drugs. but he. >> put. >> in place the 10% on china. yes. and so companies have already started to bake that into guidance bath and body works i just spoke with their ceo gina boswell. that's already in her guidance. now they're going to have an additional 10% on china. and so that's going to be something for companies to figure out. it's all very fluid. but but it helps to have the dates here. still don't know exactly what the. >> contours of the. >> reciprocal tariffs are going

to look like. i think that. will be interesting. how are they going to deal with that? how are they going to deal with things like sales taxes, which they seem to accuse countries of doing to counter products, you know, to make it unfair for u.s. products coming in that will be worth watching. is it having an effect on the data? maybe too soon to tell. but one thing that definitely is going to catch everybody's attention, including those folks at the fed, is the jobless claims number elevated, the amount of americans filing first time unemployment claims last week did go up and stretched to an 11 week high 242,000 last week. that was 21,000 above the 221 consensus, and also a 22,000 increase in the amount of jobless claims that we got the week before. also, it was noted, according to the department of labor, this was in california wildfires, and it wasn't the federal government layoffs. so it could speak to some underlying weakness or

confidence issues developing from companies. the biggest, for instance, increase in jobless claims. kentucky, tennessee, washington, michigan and minnesota. biggest decrease was california, pennsylvania. it could be linked to a slowdown in activity. one week does not a trend make. we're going to have to keep seeing it, but it's notable because there's been this big downtrend in jobless claims, which kind of made it feel like everything was okay in the labor market. >> yeah. interesting people definitely dissecting the claims by state. we haven't really seen a spike in either virginia or maryland, which makes some wonder whether or not we're feeling yet the effects of any federal workforce layoffs. we'll see. >> we'll see. i mean, they. >> said. >> that that's not really in it yet. i will note that today's data and we got the second look at fourth quarter gdp as well. and usually that's kind of it's. >> old. >> and it was unchanged. but what's in there. the details. one interesting point i'll just highlight core pce. in that fourth quarter data was revised higher. that's a little troubling 2.7%. now instead of

2.5 for core pce, we'll get the pce numbers for the last month tomorrow which will be fresher. however, i highlight it, david, because it presents a little bit of a predicament. if the fed wants to say we're on hold because we want to make sure disinflation is happening, they can point to this and say, look, some of these numbers are being revised up. we don't want to lose track, but if they want to say we want to cut rates because the labor market is starting to show signs of cracks and weakening, they can look at jobless claims. now, i'm not saying these two numbers necessarily are indicative of the trends, but they they could be and that will be the fed's conflict, which is are they going to care more about weakening jobs, or are they going to care more about lack of progress on disinflation? hopefully we'll continue to get strong jobs and we'll continue to get disinflation. but today's setup could be an interesting dilemma for the fed. >> well, and then later. >> on i. >> mean they're coming close now 20% tariffs. >> on everything. >> coming from china and 25% from mexico and canada. that's

not exactly. helping the inflation. >> helping the fight against inflation. >> no. but the question is it a one off inflationary price shock. right. and is it something the fed is going to have to respond to? i think a bigger question is what does it do for demand? you know, if it you've. >> been saying. >> that lately. >> and a. >> lot of people. >> have said that for some time, sort of. the one time nature of it, but overall demand. so what does it do for demand? >> what does it do for demand? it could hurt demand. if we do get a price shock with a lower consumer confidence environment. so far we're okay. i mean, urban outfitters today, customer demand has remained remarkably consistent. although smuckers, you know, at the grocery store, not so much. we continue to not see material impact to the category. they're talking about glp one, by the way, on that. so i would guide you back to the comments around a more cautious consumer, the convenience channel being down in general. gas prices have been elevated. people are just having a little bit less extra discretionary change in their pockets. i think that is clearly part of it. papa john's, the environment is much more value focused at the moment. and gina boswell of bath and body works just told me court value seeking consumer.

although they feel good with the innovations they've had, so they haven't really seen a slowdown in that. in that fact, the value seeking consumer, david, layer on higher prices. and you do wonder and already sort of slipping confidence what that's going to do. >> yeah i mean none. >> of this reflects tariffs. >> at. >> this point. >> no. >> yeah. >> although i do wonder, you know some of the business decisions around hiring and costs. and because. it's just hard to know. it's very hard with the with the i mentioned the word fluid. if you don't know ultimately what your cost structure is, it's hard to make decisions about investing. >> exactly. >> and hiring. >> exactly. >> all right. let's turn to shares of nvidia this morning. they're turning lower. they were. >> up in response. >> to the quarter. >> but they did turn lower once the market i think started to really digest the potential. >> prospects for. >> 20% tariffs on on. imports from china. >> here to help us break. >> things down is d.a. davidson and cantor fitzgerald. c.j. muse gill has a 135. price target. >> he's neutral. >> on the stock.

>> cj's at $200. and as you might imagine, given that price, target has an overweight gill. let's start with you. tariffs are making you look. >> smart right now. but you know, i wonder what do you take away from the quarter that. >> didn't give you perhaps. >> more confidence in the stock and the performance in the future? >> i actually don't think this has a lot to do with tariffs. the stock was already down also after the close yesterday because this is as good as it gets for nvidia. their big customers increased their spend the most into q4 as they ever have and probably ever will. two of their three largest customers have said capex will be flat into the first half of the year. it's as good as it's going to get in terms of china. whether or not tariffs matter, there will be more restrictions on sales of chips to china. so those sales are going to be under pressure. and then it's as good as it's going to get in terms of margins with their current accelerated product introduction cycle. every time they get to 75% gross margins, a

new product is going to drag it down back to the low 70. so they've done phenomenally well. they're still doing well this year, but this is probably as good as it's going to get. >> all right good. is it going to. >> get says gill. >> cj what's. >> your response? >> yeah. you know i think. >> it's a thoughtful view but. >> one that i completely disagree with. >> you know, we are. >> in the first. stages of the blackwell ramp. >> they were able. >> to ship $11 billion in the. >> quarter. >> or. one third of total data center revenues. and that's the fastest ramp in the company's history. i think very importantly, they are supply constrained. i think part of the gross margin miss is the fact that they have these supply chain issues. >> also, you. >> know. >> pricing from tsmc. >> went up on. jan one. so they have to mitigate that. but if you think about this blackwell product cycle, i think you're going to get a july quarter where. >> you get a. >> re-acceleration on the top

line. and then we're going to go into blackwell ultra in the second half. and then we're going to have ruben very quickly in the first half of 2026. so i. >> think. >> the data center growth story. is robust. i think. gross margins will push to 75% exiting the year. and as long as they continue to deliver. >> more and more. >> value. >> drive down. >> the cost of compute. i think that enables ai to become more ubiquitous. data center will. >> grow again. >> in 26, and the moment the market has conviction. >> on that growth. >> in 26. stock will. continue to work. >> yeah. >> i mean. >> i notice. >> you have a $6.80. earnings target. >> for. >> calendar year 26. >> but you say and people. >> can back into a multiple from there. but you say as well clear upside to eight bucks or more when. >> all is. >> said and done. what does. >> that mean when all is said. >> and done? >> you know, if you can get to the 300 billion kind of number for next year, that's where, you know, we would underwrite that larger eps number. >> but i. >> think. very importantly, if you believe in the 650 to 7, you

know, you're buying a stock now at less than 20 times next year's earnings, which i think is incredibly attractive. you know, i would say, though. that the main question out there is just whether 26 will be a growth year or whether we will have a digestion year. and, you know, i think we'll have visibility to that around the late may june time frame, given kind of 12 plus month lead times for blackwell. and so i think taiwan will be a very important kind of inflection point where i would expect jensen will keynote again and that he will offer a view. and i think the moment the market kind of can underwrite another growth year is when the stock can work again, because quite frankly, you know, the report we got last night was basically in line with buy-side expectations. so what we want to see is that accelerating second derivative and really start to see upside to numbers. and you know, that's going to be the second half of 25 and into 2026.

>> gill you. >> know. >> what do. you think. about 26. >> in particular. >> as cj just said growth here. >> digestion year. >> it's far more likely that it's the digestion year to get to cj's number that you need to add 80 to $100 billion next year, with at least two of the customers already telling us they're probably at plateauing. in terms of capex, microsoft and amazon have already said it. google will probably say it by the middle of the year. so without their biggest customers increasing spend probably at all, it's very hard to see them 80 adding 80 to $100 billion of revenue next year. >> what about. >> all the geopolitics, the fact that it's been such a sensitive sector and the trump administration has picked up right where biden left off in terms of restrictions and adding new ones on china. gill, do you think that's a big problem or an overhang for the for the stock? and part of the reason it hasn't

really done much over the last six months. >> it's a very big overhang. jensen huang visited the white house a couple of weeks ago, and we don't know what he promised. usually when these ceos have visited president trump, they came back with a big announcement. tim cook with a big investment. mark zuckerberg added dana white to the board. we don't know what jensen wang promised. we also know that there's already legislation that was coming to for further restrictions on sales to china. this administration is more likely to be even more severe with those restrictions. and yet the company yesterday said their guidance and their expectations assumes no change to the regulation. so that will continue to be an overhang, at least until we know what the administration intends to do. let's not forget, nvidia has taken the tack that we don't know how much we sell in china. we sell to our resellers in singapore and we don't know what

they do after that. that's the biden administration said that's unacceptable. it's hard to imagine the trump administration is going to accept that type of approach, that they don't know what these resellers are selling to, and therefore it's fine to sell into china. >> guys going to leave it there. i appreciate both your insights. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> meantime, markets trying to find some stability here even with the s&p still red sector wise it's a bit of a mixed bag. financials and energy are both up a full percent. but technology down almost a percent is taking the wind out of some of that. we do have the vix pretty much flat and the dollar index back above 107. the nasdaq by the way remains negative for the year to date. we'll watch that as we go to break. get a look at the roadmap for the rest of the hour. growing backlash in europe for tesla and elon musk shares 40% off the recent highs. we'll discuss the challenges facing the company and musk. >> president trump calling. >> egg prices a disaster. >> in his. first cabinet

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there are dozens of connected devices. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. >> make official. start your. >> will at. >> trust. >> and.com and make it count. >> welcome back. sarah mentioned at. >> the top of the hour. shares of warner brothers discovery. >> having somewhat. >> rare. >> very strong. >> day, although. >> well off the highs. the stock. >> had been up as much as 11%.

in the very early going. >> still a strong reaction to earnings. and it would seem the focus of investors is on the outperformance that. >> its direct to. >> consumer business, namely. >> the. max service, which added 6.4. >> million. subscribers during the. >> quarter. >> posted an ebitda number. >> that was above the expectations. >> of many of the analysts who follow. >> the company. >> and we got guidance as well in the shareholder letter, that. letter that accompanied earnings from from. >> warner brothers discovery of. >> about 1.3 1.3 billion in ebitda for. >> the full year from direct to consumer. that's a. >> trajectory that investors like that's starting. >> to. >> show. >> real progress there in terms. >> of profitability. >> obviously something we've talked about for. >> years now. >> and is. >> being rewarded, at. >> least with that gain. >> not so good on the linear. >> cable side. >> of course, that's nothing new. but the company did make a point of noting it's not just experiencing declines in the number. >> of people. >> who actually have.

>> linear cable. >> subscriptions. >> but it's also. >> the linear television advertising. >> market. >> they say, has deteriorated faster. >> than we expected. >> and they cite. >> as. >> evidence. >> of. >> course, their results over the last several quarters. nonetheless, a fairly. >> strong showing. >> for warner. brothers discovery, which also. >> has paid down a significant amount of debt. carl. >> indeed. meantime, as we go to break, watch shares of sweetgreen down 11 premarket actually turned positive after those double digit declines before the bell. revenue and comp sales were a miss. loss was wider than expected. the full year guidance also came in weak. tesla, meantime, now down 25% on the year as investors work through musk's growing obligations elsewhere to 88, is going to be awfully close to the 200 day for the first time in several months. we'll talk about several months. we'll talk about the challenges facing ♪ empower ♪ so handsome. oh, i can't buy this. hang on there. actually, you can.

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national. debt now. >> exceeds the. defense department's spending. >> we spent a lot on the defense department, but. >> we're spending like. >> over $1. >> trillion on interest. >> if this continues, the country will go become defacto bankrupt. it's not an optional thing. it is an essential thing. that's that's the reason i'm here. >> that was elon musk at the first cabinet meeting of trump's second term yesterday, discussing just a few of the big hurdles ahead for his department of government efficiency. his obligations have grown past tesla, of course, to running space x, formerly known as twitter and now doge. tesla shares have fallen more than 25% on the year, and now said more than 40% off their 52 week highs. our next guest calls it the double edged sword of a high profile ceo. americus reed, wharton school of business professor, joins us this morning. professor, it's great to have you back. welcome. >> thank you carl. >> really appreciate it. we've just we've never really seen anything like this. and i wonder whether you think it's an issue for the board or shareholders or

not. >> it's a huge issue, carl. >> and i think we're. >> beginning to see the roost, sort of the chickens come home to roost. and that. idea that, listen, we've got a very radioactive. lightning rod of a, of a public figure that's. >> out there saying. >> all kinds of. >> things. >> putting all kinds. >> of. >> ideological points. >> of view. >> out there. and that is really potentially damaging to the to the product service, the brand organization. because think about this, carl. it's like you're literally you if you. cause a consumer to not buy your product. not because it's. >> good or. >> bad, but because of something you say. that's a very dangerous. situation to be in. and i. >> think we're. >> at the point now where with elon musk, we're. >> going to. >> see because he's pushing the envelope. >> and insofar as how. >> far can i go. >> and be who i am. >> authentically to my loyal advocates and. >> supporters and push. >> this, this. >> this edge. >> of the sort of boundaries where the board of. >> directors and. >> shareholders say. >> hey, listen. >> enough is enough. >> i'm thinking of other companies where you have seen a

consumer reaction function at work. disney, bud light, target's a good example. do you put this in the same bucket? >> i love that question, carl. i put it in the same bucket. but it's. >> it's sort. >> of the. extreme example of the bucket. right. we're talking about a guy who literally. told mickey mouse to go. >> f yourself. >> so and. >> this. >> is something that happened like literally. >> you know, just. >> talking about. >> hey. >> i don't care what. >> advertisers think if they leave my platform. >> it's like, that's your. >> business though. so we're. >> looking at an example. >> here where. >> this is going to be really pressure tested. >> will consumers, stakeholders and the board of directors ultimately say, hey, listen. this is getting. >> beyond what it. >> is that we need. >> you to do because you can't. >> run dodge and these other companies effectively. >> and we've got we've got to provide. >> value to our shareholders. >> so i think this is an extreme example because we've got. >> to figure, carl, that has. >> spent so much time. >> putting his. >> personal brand in the space. >> of his companies. >> that. >> it's going to.

>> be really hard to. >> disentangle that. >> is there any evidence that people are not buying tesla cars because of his ideological opinions? >> it's a great question. i love that question. and the point. is that the answer is yes. we're starting to see, you know, death by a thousand cuts. we're starting to see. sort of chips in the armor, especially. >> with the. >> data coming out. >> from europe. >> with respect to sales coming down. >> and things like that. for tesla. >> we're also seeing a. lot of anecdotal. >> buzz around this idea about people. >> saying, hey. >> listen, when i bought the car, when i, when i bought. >> into into your vision. >> it. was a. >> different vision. >> and so now it's like, i don't know if i can put my dollars towards. >> something that's. so ideologically visceral that it doesn't align necessarily. >> with how i want this company. >> to. >> be run. >> he didn't tell. >> mickey mouse. >> to go f himself. he told bob iger to just a. just a point. >> there. okay. >> yeah i was you're. >> correct david. >> at the time. listen. and you

know again i, i asked him this question back in may of 23. >> basically you're antagonizing. >> potential customers. >> and he. >> said famously i don't care. i'm going to say what i want to say. and he's only amped that up about a hundred fold since then. so i don't think any board of directors anywhere is. >> going to. >> make elon stop being elon. and, you know, i guess i guess my question is, for as many people as he antagonizes, there may be as many. >> that he. >> actually brings into his. fold who, you know, love the cybertruck. >> i don't know. yeah. that's a that's a great point, david. and you're talking about the true essence of what's. >> going on here. >> and that is to say. that if. >> if half the people love me and half the people hate me, that's better than everyone being neutral. >> and so the idea that i have these loyal identity. >> loyal advocates, the argument is that. >> they're. >> going to be able to sustain me over time, right? >> that that comment. >> that. >> was made. >> in. >> that interview, david was very telling. because elon said something that really stuck with me. he said, let's see how earth

responds. and so. >> to all of this, by pushing. >> back and not really. >> budging an inch. and to me, i. >> read that to mean that. >> i'm willing to. >> bet that i have half. >> the. loyalists that are out there. >> that i need to keep this. company successful and. >> keep me in this position. >> of being sort. >> of the leader of this company. and i'm willing. >> to sort of say and continue. >> to be. >> my. >> authentic, rebellious. >> off. >> the cuff, unfiltered self because i believe half of my customers want that. and those. >> are the half that i'm. >> going to be focused on. >> yeah, it is interesting for name that some argue trades minimally on actual auto sales and more about the promise of robotics and spacex, but we'll see how it continues to develop. certainly the price action has gotten a lot of people's attention. america. thank you. good to see you. >> thank you sir. >> appreciate you joining. >> let's get a news update this morning with silvana. hi, silvana. >> hey, carl. good morning. u.s. agency. >> for. >> international development workers who have been fired or placed on leave began making their final visits to their

washington headquarters today. they were given 15 minute windows to clear out their offices while escorted by federal officers. the trump administration has been dismantling the agency, with some 4000 staffers placed on leave across the globe. >> on monday. >> influencer brothers andrew and tristan tait left romania for the u.s. today after authorities lifted their travel restrictions. a court ruled the brothers human trafficking case couldn't go to trial because of legal and procedural irregularities, but the case remains open. they are still required to return to romania if summoned. and new mexico authorities say hollywood legend gene hackman, his wife and their dog were found dead in their santa fe santa fe home yesterday. they say they don't suspect foul play, but didn't share any details yet on the circumstances of their deaths. hackman, a two time oscar winner known for iconic roles in movies including the french connection, hoosiers and unforgiven, was 95 years old. sarah.

>> okay, savannah. thank you. coming up, nvidia ceo jensen huang. his thoughts on china as shares fall. we're kind of off the lows. down 3.5%. we've got some exclusive. >> comments that. >> you won't want to miss. and also don't forget, you can catch the 10 a.m. hour of squawk on the street anytime, anywhere. listen to and follow the squawk on the street podcast. it's available now on spotify, apple music, and more. back in just a moment. with the dow now higher. moment. with the dow now higher. s&p higher (vo) if you're only maxing out a 401k, you can add a robinhood ira with a 3% contribution boost. (nasa pilot vo) roger that. (vo) robinhood gold gives you an instant 3% match on your annual ira contributions. ♪ retirement. >> for years. now you need. >> to. >> plan for retirement income.

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sale and make your dream office a reality. >> shares of. >> nvidia are down over 3.5%. this after, of course, results which were. >> fairly well received. but perhaps the headlines involving an additional 10%. >> tariff on imports from china pressuring the shares. let's go over to john ford. of course, an important conversation that he had yesterday with ceo jensen huang. john. >> david. yeah, i mean, nvidia beat on the top and bottom lines. revenue was beat by about a billion. the guide on revenue

was a beat by about $1 billion. data center beat by close to 2 billion. but china sort of an issue here. and of course the export restrictions already. and there were some hopes that the trump administration might do something different with that than the biden administration have done. but perhaps these reports about further tariffs on china dimming that i asked jensen about the amount of revenue that they're getting out of china now, and also whether those export restrictions themselves are are actually working or of software workarounds like deep seek are evidence that they don't. here's some of what he said. >> our percentage of revenues in china before export controls is twice as high as it is now. there is there's a fair amount of competition in china, export control and otherwise. huawei, other companies are doing very are quite rigorous and very, very competitive. and so i think

that that ultimately software finds a way. maybe that's the easiest way of thinking about it. >> david a little jurassic park reference there, perhaps. >> yeah. >> i get it right. life finds a way. you know, john, on. >> the tariff. >> issue, i mean, you brought into focus, i think the correct. >> one, which. >> is it's. >> will the. >> will the restrictions on low. end chips. >> continue or even go even lower, because it's not as though they're importing a lot from china. >> obviously their manufacturing capacity. >> is largely in taiwan, right? >> i mean, do we think that's fair, though, to say that that is a, you know, and how much of a concern that is for him? >> well, it it doesn't seem to be that big a concern in the sense that china revenue what they're projecting, what they're guiding to is that the percentage of revenue coming from china is going to be stable. part of what he was saying is that before there were these restrictions, the percentage revenue coming out of china was twice what it is now.

and of course, nvidia said that they're going to abide by whatever export restrictions. but if you zoom out a little bit, something else coming out of china not tariff affected is deep seek and nvidia stock did get impacted when the initial news of that model out of china came out. and there's been a lot of talk. the initial assumption was boy deep c can run on lower end ai related hardware. so is that bad for a producer of premium hardware or, you know, premium systems like nvidia? and really jensen argued the opposite that because deep seek is based on breaking down these problems, ai related into smaller pieces and reasoning through them. in the longer term, that could mean more demand for compute resources. here's what he said about that. >> we're just at the beginning of the reasoning ai era. you know, this is the time when ai is thinking to itself before it

answers a question, instead of just immediately generating an answer, it'll reason about it, maybe break it down step by step. it'll do. maybe some searching in its own mind before it creates and composes a smart answer for you. >> and i might argue, david, that we saw a piece of it's not exactly apples to apples, but andy jassy was in town yesterday with the launch of amazon alexa plus and alexa working differently now, pulling on different models from across the spectrum to answer questions. and it's conversational. it's more breaking things down piece by piece and how it responds. the argument being, well, if this works better, if it's more conversation, people are going to talk to it more, they're going to use more ai resources. and if nvidia is more powerful and more efficient than nvidia ends up being in higher demand. david. >> yeah. >> i mean, there's no. shortage of potential. competitors when it comes to inference in particular. >> john, do you think.

>> based on your own, you know, knowledge slash reporting as well, that any of them have a real chance here in terms of taking significant share? >> well, it's hard to count anybody out because we're not just talking about hardware innovation here. we're also talking about software innovation. and part of what nvidia has in its cuda software and platform is backward compatibility with earlier versions of chips that they've come out with. and if you think about it this way, it sort of allows, you know, how you got an old iphone, you might hand it down to your kids, and maybe they aren't using it for the same higher end type work things that you were using it for when you first got it. maybe they're playing games on it, but it's still good enough for that. well, that happens in data centers too, right? companies might start off using these things for ai, but then as the systems get older, they still need them for video processing, things like that. so they hold on to them, keep them. it's still useful. and so it's useful for them to stay within an nvidia ecosystem. that being the case, if the performance is valuable, if there's a longer valuable life of the systems and

they've got this software underpinning, it could create a moat similar to what we've seen in the consumer world with apple and ios. we'll see. >> all right. good stuff john. really valuable to have his commentary right after. >> the. >> release john fort. >> still to come. struggle to buy eggs lately like all. >> of us or find them, but at much. higher prices. president trump weighed in on the topic yesterday at his first cabinet meeting of the new administration. listen. >> we have to get the prices down, not the inflation down, the prices of eggs and various other things. eggs are a disaster. >> we'll get a fresh read from the ground. with the ceo of one of the nation's biggest egg. >> producers. >> vital farms. next. >> omaha steaks. >> semiannual sale. is back. >> save 50% site wide on america's. >> best steaks. >> chicken. >> burgers and more, all backed by. >> our 100% guarantee. right now you'll get 12. omaha steaks burgers free with your order. visit omaha.com today. >> what if you could tackle your dog's. >> itching. >> mushy poops and. >> low energy? >> millions of pet parents are

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>> start reinventing. >> your business. >> at paychex. >> the trump. administration. aiming. >> to crack down on soaring egg prices, looking to spend as much as billion dollars to address costs over a five. point strategy laid out by the agriculture secretary in the wall street journal. meantime, vital farms pasture raised egg producer. >> reporting earnings. >> this morning, noting they expect supply constraints to ease into the second half. joining us now is vital farm ceo russell diez canseco. it's great to have you russell. so when does this come down prices and supply issues. >> it's a great question. certainly the. one on. >> everyone's mind. >> in this. >> country at least. you know, for those of your audience who are new to the vital farm. >> story. >> we're actually a relatively small but. >> fast growing egg brand in the united states with just single. digit market share. but i think what's pretty unique about us is that we've got a very different approach to the supply chain than i think much. >> of the industry.

>> working with over 425 small. >> family farmers. >> across the country to bring millions. of eggs to the market, the net result of which is that while we've seen devastation in the american land flock, 27 million birds so far this year alone, we haven't had any of our farms affected in that same time period. and so we're working like everybody else to bring more eggs to the american public. and i'm as anxious as anyone to see those prices come. >> back down. >> how much is your price for a dozen eggs right now? >> you know, that's really up to the individual retailer. we have not raised prices in over a year. i know that the average retail price has. >> more. >> than doubled. >> since that time. in many cases. >> we are a premium egg with a premium price. but i've heard stories that in some cases, we're actually now one of the cheaper eggs on the market, since we haven't raised prices. >> ourselves in. >> over a year. >> how do you. look at. >> the industry, though? i mean, clearly, so you've been insulated and your supply is

good and you haven't had to slaughter as many chickens, it sounds like. but how bad do you think it's going to get before it gets better? >> you know, i really appreciate the focus that the trump administration is putting on this issue. >> and i, i. >> feel so positive, optimistic about how. >> their efforts. >> will impact the state of the industry. my focus is really on my own network of small. >> family farms. >> growing that network and bringing more and more eggs to the american public month by month by month. we're expanding our processing capacity, we're expanding our farm network, and that's. our contribution to this effort. >> i mean, one of one of the things that they want to do, first of all, they want to spend on research import, i mean, is that is that a solution? what are the solutions that you like in here? it's a five point plan. there's a lot going on there. regulations is part of it too. i wonder how big of a problem that is in your industry. >> you know, what i've seen is that i think that those policies

are really designed to address the challenges that the kind of the big industry players are facing, things like helping them repair their barns to reduce the risk that pests get into the barns or or maybe bringing in imported eggs. and i think to the extent that any of those things can help reduce the price of eggs for americans, i think that's all terrific. they largely don't apply to us. we haven't had the same challenges with avian influenza, and we aren't seeing the same kind of price increases on our products that i think the rest of the industry is. so for us, it's about not so much waiting and hoping for a government solution. it's really about sticking to our knitting and running a. different approach. >> but when i look at your stock price, i mean it's done very well since you've been public. and i assumed it was because of the higher price of eggs. >> you know, we've been we went public in 2020 and we've more than tripled the size of our business since then because we built a brand that resonates with american consumers. we're

working to become the most trusted food company in this country. and it's a very different sort of purpose than becoming the biggest egg company or getting to increase the prices of our eggs. it's about bringing more and more opportunities to small family farmers and releasing more and more chickens from sort of the challenges of the factory farming model. and we're showing that that new approach can work. >> well, it's an interesting story, russell, and very relevant right now for folks. so thank you for joining us to talk about it. >> thanks for having me. >> from vital farms. >> when we come back, the secret tax break included in the president's $5 million gold card. got some details after the break. still ahead next hour, the unwind of the og meme stock. we'll talk to one analyst forecasting some more pain ahead for tesla, which has moved its way into the green this morning. way into the green this morning. that's coming up at 11 a.m. guess what? pair eyewear is available exclusively at america's best! pair eyewear allows you to customize your look according to your vibe. pick a base frame, a top frame, and click!

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that at 5 p.m. eastern. david. >> neither can i. >> i may be one. of the hundred. >> i may be i want to see if there's a ticket for me. i hear. >> not not cheap. >> all right. there's a. >> secret tax break. >> in president trump. >> $5 million. gold card, visa plan. >> visa. we're not talking about visa. >> card here. >> robert frank. >> is here to explain, though. robert, this. >> one is very interesting. >> yes. >> speaking of not. >> cheap, david. president trump saying this. >> new $5 million. >> gold. >> card is. >> going to start selling. >> in just. two weeks. >> immigration attorneys. >> saying they're already getting a lot of calls from interested clients. now, one reason for that, a tax loophole that. >> would give the overseas. >> rich a. tax benefit that is not available to americans. >> now, here's why. >> u.s. citizens and permanent residents right now, they have to pay income taxes on all of their income, so that income earned in the us and any income earned overseas. gold card holders will only be taxed on. >> their. >> u.s. income. >> their overseas income. >> will be exempt. >> now, attorneys.

>> say this is. >> the only way the global rich would even want to come to the u.s. to become residents. the gold card is the latest entry into the fast growing business of investment. visas for the world's wealthy. right now, over 60 countries promote some kind of investment visa. a record 135,000 millionaires will move to another country just this year, with. >> the. >> uae and the us. >> being the top destinations. >> now for more on the gold card, how it works and where the wealthy are getting their visas, you can check out my new inside wealth newsletter, out today at cnbc.com. inside wealth cnbc.com. inside wealth. >> all right robert. >> but right now if i earn a lot of income outside of the country i'm paying i'm. >> paying that. >> income to the local jurisdiction as well as taxes to the local jurisdiction. >> as well. >> and i'm paying in the us. >> yes. >> there are tax credits. >> so a lot of that that you're paying offshore is offset. but but. >> right now. >> we pay. >> we are one of the only countries that has a worldwide

income tax. right. >> and the. >> only way to get these people to pay the $5 million. >> taxation, that's what they say, right? >> yes. >> and one of the things that trump said during the campaign is that for expats, americans living overseas, he would get rid of. double taxation. that raised all kinds of questions. well, are you getting rid of worldwide income? this has been one of the pillars of our tax system, that there is no benefit to putting your stuff offshore if. >> you're. >> taxed on that anyway. so imagine all these people could put their family offices, their holding companies offshore and now come to the us and not have to pay any federal income taxes on income that they don't earn in the us. they still pay taxes. to sarah's point on domestic income that they earn in the us. but most of these people won't earn any or little income in. >> the us. >> so this is going to create a dual class citizenship for american rich and then the gold card holders. >> the other question yesterday was how it's different from eb five visas where for 30 years, if you make an investment or guarantee some employment, you

get a path to citizenship. right? >> and the. guaranteed employment was key. >> you had to create at least ten jobs. >> eb five. >> program was revamped because. >> it. >> was filled with fraud and abuse. now it's really rural areas and infrastructure as. >> opposed to. >> condo buildings, luxury condo buildings that was funded for a long time. but all the programs around the world are contingent on some investment that benefits the country, trump said explicitly yesterday. there is no requirement, there's no job requirement, there's no investment. this money goes straight to the government. >> and you're. >> in, right. >> 5 million bucks. >> and the fact is, these people weren't paying. >> taxes here to begin with or aren't. >> right now. >> that's right. >> that's right. >> and howard lutnick last night said in an interview that there's a 250,000 person wait list for this. unclear. >> actually. >> i don't i don't. >> think it's that. >> i don't think it's that large. >> but times. >> 5 million. the number. >> of big. >> money. >> the. >> look, the number of the total addressable market here, the number of people in the world worth, let's say, $30. >> million. >> that's about the market that could afford. >> a. >> $5 million visa. there's

277,000 of them worldwide. very few of them are going to want to become us citizens. so it's a fraction of 277,000. that's the total addressable market. uk and you australia, they had about a thousand people a year applying for their programs which were similar. so it will be a lot but not quite what they're saying. >> got it. so we're. >> not going. >> to hit that 10. >> million number. that trump at. >> least threw out is like. >> you were this close to paying off the debt. >> would it be. >> $50 trillion? >> any bit helps. >> all right robert. >> thank you. >> thank you guys. >> thank you guys. >> thank you. thanks to you discovering innovation today, helps drive growth tomorrow. as a leading global asset manager, pgim has established a track record of helping investors capitalize on growth opportunities. pgim investments. shaping tomorrow, today. it's a smart move to get a second opinion. you do it when you're looking for a contractor. you definitely do it with medical advice. so why not with your stock market investments?

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it's what ai was meant to be. made this year's list. meet the new icons. the cnbc changemakers list revealed. available now at cnbc.com. changemakers. good thursday morning again. welcome to. >> money. >> movers i'm sara eisen with carl quintanilla live from post nine of the new york stock exchange today. musings from the eye. trade how nvidia, salesforce and snowflake say they are positioned to benefit for years to come. cnbc speaking with all three ceos on our air yesterday, we're going to talk with one investor who says he would aggressively add to one of those names on any pullback. >> then the, quote, unwind of the og meme stock trade. barclays helps to explain tesla's recent underperformance and w