>> disney respect the strength in a. wobbly market here. >> and stephanie link. >> diamondback energy down 14% trading at nine times earnings. >> okay just a quick check on the markets. we are still negative on the dow the s&p and the nasdaq. the russell is just barely positive. but i have a feeling it's going to be very interesting. afternoon i'll see you at 3:00 when closing bell exchange begins now. >> thank you very much scott. and welcome to the exchange i'm kelly evans. let's get right back to washington. after the contentious bilateral meeting we just witnessed between ukrainian. president zelensky, president trump and vice president jd vance. now, it appeared to send the s&p down on the session. if you missed it, we're about to replay a portion of it. among other barbs, trump told zelensky he is gambling with world war three, while trump and vance demanded a thank you for america's support of ukraine in this war, which trump said otherwise would have been over for ukraine in two weeks. now, we're potentially still supposed to have a press conference between the two leaders at some point this hour.

eamon javers is at the white house for us. we also have atlantic council ceo and cnbc contributor fred kemp here to react. and gracelyn baskaran is director of the critical minerals security program at the center for strategic and international studies. it's great to have you all here. and eamon, let's start with you, kelly. >> anger, bitter emotion, shouting in the oval office. unprecedented scenes here at the white house today as vladimir zelensky met with president trump and vice president j.d. vance in the oval office, and the meeting descended into basically an argument and shouting match, as the three men argued about whether or not ukraine has been grateful enough for american military support, whether ukraine is too reluctant to sign a deal involving mineral rights with the united states, whether zelensky himself has been respectful enough of president trump and j.d. vance, the president suggesting he has not been respectful, he has not been polite. zelensky pushing back, arguing that no deal with vladimir putin is trustworthy,

that putin has broken deals before he'll break them again, and pointing out to j.d. vance that he hasn't even been to ukraine. as j.d. vance was explaining the situation in ukraine to the president of ukraine. dramatic. unprecedented. i'm searching for additional words to describe this, kelly, because it's just not something we've seen in the oval office before. take a listen to just one portion of that exchange. >> during the war. everybody has problems, even you, but you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. >> god bless you. god bless you. god bless you. will not you don't tell us what we're going to feel. we're trying to solve a problem. don't tell us what we're going to feel. >> i'm not telling. >> you because you're in no position to dictate that. >> remember what? >> you're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. we're going to feel very good. we're going to feel very good and very strong influence. you're right now not in a very good position. you've allowed

yourself to be in a very bad position. and he happens to be right about. >> the very beginning of. >> the war. you're not in a good position. you don't have the cards right now with us. you start having cards. cards right now you don't play cards, you're playing cards. you're gambling with the lives of millions of people. you're gambling with world war three. you're gambling with world war three. and what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country that's back to you far more than a lot of people said they should have. >> have you said thank. >> you once. >> this entire meeting? >> no. >> in this entire meeting. >> have you said thank you? >> you went to pennsylvania. >> and campaigned. >> for the opposition. >> in. >> october. >> offer some words of appreciation. >> for the. united states of america. >> and the. >> president who's trying. >> to save your country. >> please. you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war. >> you are not speaking loudly. he's not speaking loudly. your country is in big trouble. wait

a minute. no, no, you've done a lot of talking. your country is in big trouble. i know you're not winning. no, you're not winning this. you have a damn good chance of coming out, okay? because of us. >> president, we are staying in our country, staying strong. from the very beginning of the war, we've been alone, and we are thankful. i said. >> thanks. you haven't been in. >> my cabinet in. >> this campaign. we gave you through this stupid president, $350 billion. we gave you military equipment. you and your men are brave, but they had to use our military. if you didn't have our military equipment, if you didn't have our military equipment, this war would have been over in two weeks. >> in three days? i heard it from putin in three days. this is. >> something in. >> two weeks, of course. >> yes. it's going to be a very hard thing to do business like this, i can tell you. >> just say thank. >> you. >> i said. i don't accept. >> that, except. >> the american people. >> accept that there are disagreements. >> and let's. go litigate. those disagreements. >> rather than. >> trying to. >> fight it. >> out in the american media.

>> when you're wrong, we. >> know that. >> you're wrong. but you see, i think it's good for the american people to see what's going on. i think it's very important. that's why i kept this going so long. you have to be thankful you don't have the cards. you're buried there. you're people are dying. you're running low on soldiers. you're running low on soldiers. it would be a damn good thing. and then you. then you tell us. i don't want a cease fire. i don't want a cease fire. i want to go, and i want this. i. look, if you could get a cease fire right now, i tell you, you take it so the bullets stop flying and your men stop getting killed. >> because we want to stop the war. >> but you're saying you don't want to see? i said to you, i want to see guarantees because you get a cease fire faster than an agreement. >> where people about what they think. >> there wasn't me for you. there wasn't with me. that was with a guy named biden who was not a smart person. that was your that was with obama. >> it was your. >> press, excuse me? that was with obama, who gave you sheets and i gave you javelins. yes. i

gave you the javelins to take out all those tanks. obama gave you sheets. in fact, the statement is obama gave sheets and trump gave javelins. you got to be thankful because let me tell you, you don't have the cards with us. you have the cards, but without us you don't have any cards, right? >> it's just extraordinary scenes in the oval office. kelly, as the two men talking over each other, shouting at each other, zelinski trying to make his points in english, trump saying to him that he simply doesn't have the cards he needs to sign this mineral deal. he needs to show more respect. he needs to be grateful to the united states. zelensky conceding that he has been. he has expressed thanks to the united states taxpayer, to the people of the united states over the past several years. but kelly, you wonder how they can put this relationship back together again. what's going to happen for the rest of this war? what's going to happen for the rest of this afternoon? kelly?

we have now. we're on the schedule at least, is a press conference with these two men taking questions side by side in the east room. we'll see if that happens. is there going to be a mineral deal? the white house is very bullish on a deal for minerals. earlier this morning, although they did not release any details of that deal. we'll see whether that gets signed this afternoon. is there a future for u.s. military aid to ukraine? what is the fate of russian onslaught that they're standing against militarily right now? all of those questions hanging in the balance here, extraordinary stakes, kelly, and extraordinary drama at the white house today. >> you know, i've often wondered what it's like when these meetings are actually taking place. some of these negotiations, especially the tough ones. and this is the first time i've ever felt like i got a sense for what might really be going on behind closed doors, you know? >> yeah. >> you don't see this play out on global television that often or, you know, ever. this is i mean, let's be honest, this is unprecedented. never seen anything like this in the oval

office. the reason is because us presidents don't like to see, don't like to have the world see anger and temper. the us presidents traditionally have wanted to present an appealing face to the world, and to build alliances and allies. they wanted to be seen, as you know, statesmen and diplomats. there might be some real tough language behind the scenes, but they have not let that unfold on global television. this president does not operate that way. >> right. and we'll see if we get the press conference. what kind of tone emerges from there? of course, a very different setup, the men at their podiums. and it's much more of an official kind of thing versus this one, which is a real free for all, especially after the vice president got involved. eamon stay there. fred kemp, i just wanted to turn to you and ask for your reaction and what are your takeaways. and look, let's home in on a couple of issues that really came to the surface there. number one, president trump is basically saying to zelensky that the us is keeping them going in this fight. and so he's saying from

america's point of view and from ukraine's point of view, a ceasefire is the best possible outcome. now, zelensky said that's not popular with ukrainians. and he said we want guarantees. and trump's reply to that was, you might have thought you needed guarantees with biden, but you don't need them with me. so maybe you can pick it up there. fred. >> look. >> first of all, we've. >> just witnessed the highest. >> stakes geopolitics. >> as reality tv. >> so get ready. >> for four years of the cameras in the oval office. we saw it in the cabinet meeting with elon musk at the cabinet meeting. this is just a new way of doing things. what we saw was two people, president trump and president zelensky, both of whom made a. >> career. >> in television. and so and they both have domestic audiences. so, you know. >> this could be a breakup. >> this could be a crackdown? i don't. >> think so. >> we've gone through too. much whiplash in the last couple of weeks. let's not forget, it started with president trump calling zelensky a dictator. it

started with him. you know him. zelensky being told you won't become a member of nato. you know you're not going to get back your territory from the secretary of defense. and then we had all our hopes up today because we heard the deal is done, the critical mineral deal is done, and the mineral deal is really a security deal. if you have america that deeply invested in ukraine, then ukraine's failure is america's failure. so let's see if exchange. so let's see if they litigate those disagreements. and maybe we come out of this reality tv episode with a happy ending at the end of the day. that's right. it's in all of our interests and that's where it lands. >> fred, i was also struck by, you know, there are going to be parents watching this who feel like they're reminded of how they speak with their kids, and the fact that that is reflecting the tone of the relationship tells you that ukraine, the ukraine is viewed as the junior partner in all of this.

remember, they were barely invited to the original talks if they were at all. so if you were the europeans, if you're somebody else watching this, there's an opportunity for you to come in and say, we're willing to give you the defense systems, the financial backs, whatever it is that you need. but in the absence of that, fred, that's why we're seeing the relationship come off the way that it does right now. >> yeah. i mean, again, let's see where this lands. but two weeks ago, zelensky didn't have anything near the support from europe that he got in the last couple of weeks. and on monday, let's not forget there was a train load of european officials showing up in kyiv on the third anniversary of this, of this war. you've had the uk, the uk prime minister, you've had the french president come to the oval office this week. they're willing to put boots on the ground. they're seeking a backstop from the us. the us so far saying i'm not going to give a backstop. but again the critical minerals deal is a backstop. i mean, that would be a real game changer. it would be the biggest foreign policy achievement of the trump administration thus far. 40 days in office. it's early days, so i

still think we can get back to that. i you know, you watch all that and you just i think damon is right. i've been watching your coverage and it's just been terrific. and i think he's right that we've never seen anything like that before. live in the oval office. but, you know, i we also have seen things turn around pretty quickly. and so let's see if this can turn around quickly. i think it's in everybody's interest. it's billions of dollars that could go to the us. the president wants the critical minerals. he really understands that in a way. the biden administration you know, this this was in the original peace deal that was given to the biden administration. zelensky included rare earths and critical minerals. it was really only the trump administration that took it up this seriously. so i think i still think that that carrot could bring everybody, could bring everybody back together, and we can still get we can still get the deal that we thought we were going to have this morning. >> yeah. and gracelyn, you know, fred's right that it allows the us to say, you know, we're getting something out of this.

it's a win for the administration. it's kind of a win for the ukrainians. and here's where your mining expertise can maybe come in handy. there's a lot of dispute about just whether there are rare earths in ukraine in the first place. you know how many other critical minerals might exist but can actually be mined because they might be in russian territory, or the mines have never been developed, and that would cost hundreds of millions of dollars to do so. you know, how realistic is it that any minerals are coming out of ukraine in the near term? >> thanks so much for having me. so there's a couple of really big points we need to hit here. the first thing is that the negotiated deal does not include revenue from current operating minerals, oil or gas assets, its future assets, which essentially means that, you know, from the time i start developing a project, on average globally, it takes 18 years from the time i start from project identification to the time i have a fully producing mine. so this is a really long term look ahead. you know, we don't there's no rare earth mines that are operating right now. and in fact, you know, the former director general of the

ukrainian geological survey has said we don't even have a modern mapping of rare earths. the last mapping was done by the soviet union. it's quite old at that time. some of those minerals weren't nearly as strategic as they are now. but remember, unlike countries like russia or china or saudi arabia, we don't have a state owned mining company. this is a government to government agreement, but ultimately the private sector has to come in and make significant investments. you know, we talk about an 18 year timeline. a mine in the associated processing plant costs 500 million to $1 billion. that's a significant amount of capital that has to come in to a high risk jurisdiction. so this isn't something that's going to send us rare earths six months from now, because there's no producing rare earths right now. >> i think you you summed it up beautifully. and so if i were ukraine, i would want to emphasize this aspect. you can have all the rare earths. we'll give it to you, you know, because it's a tactical win without necessarily being

anything in substance. >> i totally agree with you. i mean, before we even get to a point where we can mine, we're going to have to do a mapping. there's going to have to be a lot of rebuilding of energy infrastructure. mining uses about 16% of the world's global electricity, and ukraine's energy infrastructure has been severely damaged in the course of the war. so there's going to be the rebuilding of energy and roads for the mining sector, and then eventually we will get to producing assets. so really, there's a whole ecosystem that can be developed around this deal, and it's not going to be just a loss of minerals tomorrow. >> is there anything that could hasten this, that could, you know, if we say, okay, well, you know what? we're willing to i don't know, we're going to send our best u.s. assets and scientists and companies, and we're going to go in. i mean, you know, if we did something to that extent, graceland, you know, sending people to the moon, do you think we could come back with significant rare earths or other minerals? my understanding is the other minerals that ukraine has in decent supply are ones that we also have in decent supply here.

>> yes and no. they have bigger reserves of things like graphite, for example. right. we do have less than one. they do have graphite uranium. titanium is really vital for defense technology and they have significant reserves. but all of these assets will take a lot of time. and what we haven't seen in this dialog is a lot of private sector capital saying, you know, once this agreement is there, i will go. and so, i mean, considering that is ultimately the dialog i'll have to move to, how do we make take this from a paper based agreement to something that's action oriented? >> indeed. i really appreciate that perspective. so kelly, go ahead please. >> yeah. can i jump in on that? so i couldn't agree more. critical earths, source of rare earths, critical minerals. this is a tough business. and 40% of it. 40% of the assets, as we've heard, are in the occupied territory. so if the us signs up for this, it will be in their vested interest that ukraine gets back that territory. it is long term, but that's just the point. trump himself said

before, we just saw what we saw in the oval office. it's a great deal for ukraine because it gets us over there. he said, nobody's going to be messing around. this is a quote. no one is going to be messing around with our people when we're there. so that's bulldozers and bulldozers and workers and earth movers. and so what it symbolized is an investment in ukraine's future that putin did not want the us to make. so the symbolic nature of this for right now is so much more important than the economic nature of it, which is very, very long term. >> so, fred, given what we just witnessed, do you think now that the american public is going to watch this and just be blown away by what they've just witnessed in the oval office? does that help or hurt zelensky's cause, do you think? where does this leave us? >> i think it's really up to president trump and whether he wants to turn this back and to zelensky. i mean, look, zelensky is, you know, some people compare him to the winston churchill of our times, the way

he saved the country, the way he stood up for it. and so, you know, considering the nature of the situation, he kept his calm. he might have been able to keep his calm a little bit better. he, you know, it's we're going to watch that tape over and over again and see what we learn about all the players in that conversation. i don't think it's the end of the deal. i think it's part of the deal. it's the negotiation. we're just seeing it on reality tv and we're seeing it in real time. and i think this is the way that president trump operates. i really hope that a lot of that was acting. i hope a lot of the fume that we saw in the air, the fire we saw in the air goes out of it now. and that they really do litigate, they litigate agreement, the agreements done well, the agreements on paper. and so all they have to do is agree that they still want to go forward with it. >> as we watch the markets, which have weakened since this all began to unfold, the s&p is down about a quarter percent. eamon, just to go back to you. the president has now made a

comment on truth social. that doesn't sound very positive on prospects for a resolution here. he basically says we i'm going to read the whole thing. he says we had a very meaningful meeting in the white house today. again, this is trump on truth social. just moments ago, he said, much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. it's amazing what comes out through emotion and this is the key part. he says i have determined that president zelensky is not ready for peace. if america is involved because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations, trump goes on to say, i don't want advantage, i want peace. he disrespected the united states of america and its cherished oval office. he can come back when he is ready for peace. so eamon, please kind of put that in context of what is likely or not likely to happen with this press conference now. >> yeah. well, a couple things, kelly, that sounds like the press conference is off. i can tell you, i just got some email from pool reporters who are in the east room just in the past couple of minutes. they say they're still setting up in there, as if there's a press conference. that post on social media doesn't give you a lot of

hope that there is a press conference. if he says zelensky can come back under different circumstances. the other thing i would take from that, kelly, as you read it, it strikes me that the president is saying that zelensky is not ready for peace if the us is involved. trump says he wants peace. therefore, that would lead you to a conclusion reading that that president trump is ready to pull american involvement from ukraine and let ukraine fight it out on their own, he said to zelensky in the oval office that if we pull out, you will fight it out on your own and you will lose. you're going to lose this war. you don't have any cards here. you need us to at least come out of this in some kind of unified shape. that social media post, kelly, makes it sound to my ears, like the president is ready to walk away from ukraine and let them fight on by themselves. >> i don't know how he does that, eamon. i mean, our involvement is still significant in terms of arms and financial support and all the rest of it. so it's not as though there can be exactly a case of, okay, go

try this on your own now. but that was the underpinning of much of that discussion was, hey, you couldn't even be in the position you are today without us. it's clear that trump wants a ceasefire immediately and zelensky wants security guarantees. >> yeah, you heard zelensky saying that in the oval office. i want security guarantees, he said. and trump said you don't need guarantees from me. trump. you know, we'll go back and look at the transcript. but it to my ear, it sounded as if trump was almost offended that zelensky wanted some kind of guarantee in this deal, maybe in writing that would say that the united states will commit military aid in the future, right? what zelensky wants is a continuing, you know, airlift of military aid to continue to fight the war. he doesn't want to sign this minerals deal unless he's got some kind of guarantees of that. it sounds like from the body language here in the oval office, trump doesn't want to sign any kind of guarantee of future military aid. he feels like zelensky shouldn't even ask him that, that that's disrespectful. you know, you're going to you just heard the

white house say that they feel that zelensky was the one who was disrespectful in the oval office. and as fred just said, there's going to be a lot of scrutiny of this tape for maybe years to come as people look to see, you know, who was it, who was disrespectful to who here and what actually set this off. we still have to see the full playout of the tape, kelly, because there's a lot of preamble to this that happened before the blow up. and that all seemed much, much more pleasant until the blow up moment happened. now, i can tell you that there is a marine at the west. sorry, at the west wing door here, and i'm just looking over my left shoulder. you can see it on screen there. they've pulled up zelensky's vehicle with the ukrainian flag. it looks like we're going to see a zelensky departure here. no military honor guard here. behind me, kelly. there was a military honor guard on the way in. no honor guard here for the departure. that's not always that unusual. sometimes they'll have that just for the welcome. but i can see the marine is now

in position, and they are getting ready for a departure here. and we'll just have to watch these shots, kelly, live to see if zelensky is now leaving. i can tell you i also hear the rumblings of the motorcycles of the motorcade just within the past seconds, as we're talking, have just fired up out on pennsylvania avenue. so it does sound to me, kelly, like zelensky's motorcade is about to be on the move and zelensky himself is about to leave the white house without that press conference and, crucially, without that mineral deal that we've been talking about throughout the morning. >> kelly and originally, 1 p.m. eastern was kind of the loose time that we thought we might be getting this press conference. so of course we're well past that. and with everything we just saw, we know why. fred, just going back to this, the final remark from trump's post on truth social a few moments ago after what happened in the oval office, was he can come back when he is ready for peace. so where does this on a friday evening, going into the weekend? where does this now leave things? >> well, it's really an unfortunate close to this episode. and i put under underscore this episode. i was

in munich security conference a few days ago, and i overheard a senior mideast official who deals with the trump administration a lot, talk to a senior european official who was having problems with the trump administration, and that mideast official said, engage, engage, engage. and i think that's the real difference here. it's personal engagement at the highest levels that the president trump does. that's the way he does international policy. you know, this would all be a little bit entertaining if it weren't so serious. this is not just the future of ukraine. it's the future of europe. and it's really american credibility in the world. so i do hope that this is an episode that ends happily in the end, but it also shows us that there's a potential for president putin to upset the president, the united states and j.d. vance, as well as they get more deeply involved in their peace talks. and so let's keep watching this show, but understand that the stakes are so high that that we really want the ukrainian president and

the us president to find their way back together. >> how would you characterize ukraine's position right now vis a vis the war, fred, if they go back home with with nothing, no deal, no near term, you know, commitment to further aid and so forth? >> well, it's a precarious situation. you know, the morale of the country was really lifted by the potential of this minerals deal. it's been lifted by european allies offering more. the europeans have enough money if they want to, to arm ukraine. they just don't have their defense industry ramped up and they haven't shown the political will. so, you know, the more that the us bows out, the more europe can, has to, has to lean in. and can europe lean in fast enough for ukraine? and then putin's got a vote in this too. he can escalate. he's lost hundreds of thousands of his own people. his economy isn't in the greatest shape. so it's not as if he's got all the i mean, president trump is talking about cards. you know, president putin doesn't have the greatest cards

in the world either. but it is true that us is the balancer here. and there's no president zelensky knows he'd be better off with the us on his side. i can't i can't say that if i were president zelensky i would be very happy about that. the way that ended up in the oval office. maybe when one sees a bunch of cameras and television cameras in front of you, you just have to recognize that that's not that's not the time to grandstand on either side. but here, here's where we are, and i just hope we find our way back and that this is one episode in a long running geopolitical play where we get back on the right page again. >> fred and gracelyn, thanks for spending so much time with us as we track these developments this afternoon. fred kemp with the atlantic council and gracelyn baskaran with csis, we turn to michael o'hanlon, who's on the news line. he's foreign policy program director of research at brookings. michael, your thoughts? >> greetings. well, i agree with much of what i just heard from your other guests. i think that

this relationship has to be repaired. i know that zelensky will figure that out. he'll he recognizes that the united states is his most important friend. and even though he's understandably emotional at times, given what he and his country have been through, he's smart enough to know that he can't let things stand the way they are. so i have no doubt that he'll. >> just for a moment, let me just go get back to eamon to get us up to speed with the latest developments. we'll come right back to get your point of view. eamon javers standing by where this motorcade looks like it could depart shortly. eamon, what can you tell us. >> kelly that's right. you're looking at a live picture now of the west wing door where we do think we might see vladimir zelensky departing the white house. this is obviously not how this was supposed to go. there was supposed to be another couple of hours of this meeting, that post on truth social from the president, president trump suggesting that zelensky can come back when he's ready for peace. we do expect a departure here, kelly. i can tell you that the secret service has opened the white house gates at the end of the driveway, and the secret service officers are clearing

reporters and others out of the driveway here on the north lawn. so it does feel like a departure is imminent. but i want to flag for you that reuters has just posted a headline. reuters saying zelensky leaves white house early after contentious meeting with trump. now, that might be an erroneous flash because we believe that zelensky is still in there. but we're going to watch this because this is not playing out according to protocol at all. kelly. and you do wonder if vladimir zelensky has left the building some other way. and this is just the motorcade getting ready to bring the rest of the delegation out, or whether they're just going to remove this vehicle here now that zelensky has left. so my understanding is that zelensky is still in the building, and we're going to see that departure here momentarily. but reuters does have this headline out that suggests that he has already left the building. it's a little bit confusing right now, and this is not how things are supposed to go. and we're going to watch it and. >> see exactly right. and we still have michael o'hanlon standing by. michael, to share

your point of view. you know, again, on the meeting itself, the fact the ukrainian president has now left the president of the us saying he can come back when he's ready for peace, where does that leave us? >> well, that's good, you know, i mean, we're learning a bit about donald trump, a person we know pretty well by this point. but nonetheless, i haven't seen him in this many spats with somebody that he knew he really couldn't remain in a spat with himself and often in american domestic politics, when he starts trading blows like this with people, there's really no repair. but i'm glad to hear that he's sort of saying to zelensky, you know, when you're ready to take a different approach, then i'll talk again. he's not cutting him off definitively, by the way, i'm not trying to take president trump's side in this, but i am just concerned about how do you repair this deep rupture that seems to have emerged today. the good news is trump's already figured out how to, you know, turn over a new page with zelensky before since he was calling him a dictator last week and now he has hosted him at the white house. so that's encouraging. but nonetheless, each time you have an additional

problem like this, i think the odds of the united states having ukraine's back under president trump are less. so we'll have to see. i'm still going to stay hopeful. >> and nbc has confirmed that the press conference is not happening, as we sort of figured with the car waiting for his his departure here, it was supposed to be top of the hour. but after the meeting in the white house, where things turned quite volatile, zelensky is leaving the white house without even having that press event. michael, when's the last time you saw something like this? >> well, you know, that's still better than having a press conference where they blow up at each other again in front of the cameras. so i'm relieved they're not having a press conference, given what we know has already taken place today. but it sounds like both men are leaving room. zelensky because he knows he must. and trump, based on the words he's just spoken, leaving room to repair this thing. it's just a question of how long that will take and what will happen in the meantime, right. >> so where the state of affairs then is what exactly? if you're russia watching this unfold, what do you think. putin has got

to be encouraged. but, you know, i don't know that putin's bouncing off the walls with glee either, because, you know, when president trump says to zelensky, come back when you're ready for peace, he's basically saying, i still want to make a deal that protects and preserves your country. and so in that regard, you know, putin's not being offered more territory. trump's not out there saying that zelensky should surrender the remainder of the four provinces that russia wants to steal. he's not saying, you know, extreme things like that. and so i don't know that putin should take too much solace. >> you know, now we have to turn the question back to the markets to some extent, which are a little jittery over what they just saw, you know, so i don't know if there's anything you'd add for investors, michael, who have all weekend now to try to think about this. >> yeah. i'd say take the whole weekend to think about it. don't try to make a play in the next two hours. i you know, this is the sort of let's remember, donald trump thrives on drama. it's how he operates. and

whether you like him or not, you got to concede that point. he likes to interject debate, argumentation, new ideas. you know, his defenders will say they're useful disruptions. or jd vance today will say that zelensky wasn't respectful enough. but this is the kind of thing you get with a trump presidency. and so i would not overreact just yet. now, if things are getting worse still by monday morning, maybe you think about a different move. but to me this is this is serious. but it's probably just one more day's news as opposed to a definitive turning point. >> how do you think it plays with the american public? lastly. >> you know, i i'd have to guess that if you took a poll that that 55%, 60% would be on zelensky's side. but i but i think when j.d. vance says, you know, you should at least say you're grateful one time, that probably resonates with a lot of americans, too. and maybe president zelensky could have used nicer words, i don't know, i wasn't there, so my guess is

that americans will sort of, again, recognize this is the kind of thing you get with a trump presidency and not overreact, but we'll have to see. >> all right, michael, thanks. michael o'hanlon from brookings. we appreciate it. as i mentioned, the markets were a little spooked by what we saw with the s&p dipping to. well, we'll ask dom if that was session lows. it looks like we're just a couple of points lower right now. still we are in the red pretty much across the board. we have a couple of viewpoints standing by. potomac wealth advisors mark avallone g squared private wealth victoria green and we're going to leave this shot up so we can see if the ukrainian president leaves to get into that vehicle, guys. so with that in mind, mark, what are your what's your thought reaction to both the spectacle of what we saw, but also the significance of what this means for the war? >> well, thanks, kelly. and last night when i sent you my note, one of my leading points was, we're going to have daily press conferences and we're going to have daily switches on tariffs and comments that are made for tv moments. and this is exactly

what played out today. and the gyrations in the market is not going to be an aberration. this is the new normal for four years. i don't expect it to change. the other part that's concerning to me is that against that backdrop, in the short run, we have massive government cutbacks that aren't favorable for gdp. i mean, lay offs are not good. we heard steve cohen talk about that earlier in the week. and tariffs are inflationary. so initially there was a lot of euphoria for a trump presidency. and i shared in that from a business standpoint and the continuation of the current tax bill helps and less regulation helps. but just about everything else so far is really a net negative. and the numbers bear that out. this isn't my opinion. you look at the year to date numbers and you look at the movement today. so i think investors truly have to take a long term perspective. we've heard that and we've learned that our whole investing careers. but this administration is going to make us really challenge can we be long term investors and look at underlying

economic fundamentals? >> victoria, as the market turns back into positive territory, perhaps, you know, they're saying, okay, we got to price this in. we got to take it in stride. what does it change for you? if anything. >> it doesn't really i mean this has been all week. we've started off pretty decent in the morning, had a rally and we just can't hold it in the afternoon. i mean, i feel like we need to early close the markets 1 p.m. get get us out of this afternoon sell off. but look, it's been happening all week. you know yesterday started a little bit similarly. and so some of this i think was reaction to the press conference. you know any more uncertainty. just a little bit more gasoline on an already blazing fire of risk. and what's going to happen and all of the unknowns out there. but this is also just status quo. the last two weeks that we've been in this little bit of a pullback is afternoon tailing off. and i'm sitting here watching the charts. and i'm starting to get nervous every time i kind of, you know, wiggles down and hopefully we'll end on a positive note. but look february was tough really tough on u.s. assets u.s. versus europe was was one of the biggest divides since 2022. and so you look

around and say some of this was just the market consolidating. but some of it is how much more uncertainty can we climb? i mean, this, this, this bull market has climbed many walls of worry that multiple people thought would break it. and so i'm not ready to call it, you know, nail in the coffin. bull markets dead. but again, at some point we would like to have something a little bit less spicy. i'd love to have a day that was boring, honestly. and to have a boring day. >> the nasdaq is having its worst week since 2020, when the pandemic broke out, which is against what's been sort of, you know, nothing that dramatic, at least so far. stay right there, guys. we're just going to turn back to eamon javers with the latest on what's unfolding here at the white house. >> eamon kelly i can tell you things are not going according to plan here at the white house. we see zelenskyy's vehicle. that's the vehicle. he came in at the west wing door. the marine who has been standing there has now departed. normally they have a marine standing there for the official departure. the ceremonial marines have departed. a uniformed secret service officer came out, kind of looked around, eyeballed the scene and went

back in the door. i can tell you that they have closed the main white house gate from the driveway out to pennsylvania avenue that had been open, presumably for the vehicle to depart and for this departure. so we don't know whether this departure is going to happen now or not. that set up there that you're looking at is not the typical setup for a departure. you would see marines there ready to open the doors. you would see white house aides emerging to photograph for social media, that sort of thing. we're not seeing any of that. so what can we make of that? is zelinski departing the white house some other way? is he going to walk out on foot out of the west executive drive or another exit? we don't know. is he still in there having an extended meeting? we don't know. is there a negotiation for trump to have a handshake with vladimir zelensky at that door in order to paper over some of the tension that we saw playing out in the oval office? we don't

know that either, kelly. so this is a very fluid situation, very unusual situation. but as you were just talking about, donald trump thrives in moments of controversy and contentiousness, and he may be seeing this as an opportunity to gain some leverage here. kelly. >> yeah. you know, as we now see sort of the analysis coming out about the situation, politico calls it a disaster for ukraine. they note their ambassador had her head in her hands as the shouting match went on. so this now puts them in potentially a strategically weaker bargaining position. eamon. >> clearly, i mean, president trump was right when he told zelensky, you don't have the cards in this negotiation. zelensky is facing a war of attrition against an enemy that has a 10 to 1 manpower advantage over him. he has lost the cream of the crop of the ukrainian military in the trenches over the past three years of this war. his country is in dire circumstances. it depends almost entirely on american military aid. the one question i would

have here is how this plays out in europe. there's been some question about whether the europeans would step up military aid to ukraine, even as the united states steps back, whether they have the capacity militarily to do that, as the united states steps back. all of that now is up in the air. and we're going to kelly, switch over here to a piece of sound, because i want to go back to what happened in the oval office before this extended drama of the departure, this flashpoint between zelensky, trump and u.s. vice president j.d. vance. take a listen. >> during the war, everybody has problems, even you. but you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. god bless you. god bless you. god bless you all, not you. >> don't tell us what we're going to feel. we're trying to solve a problem. don't tell us what we're going to feel. >> i'm not telling you. >> because you're in no position to dictate that. remember,

you're in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. we're going to feel very good. we're going to feel very good and very strong influence. you're right now not in a very good position. you've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position. and he happens to be right about. >> the very beginning of the war. >> you're not in a good position. you don't have the cards right now with us. you start having cards. cards right now you don't. you're playing cards. you're playing. you're gambling with the lives of millions of people. you're gambling with world war three, you're gambling with world war three. and what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country that's back to you far more than a lot of people said they should have. >> have you said thank you once this entire meeting? no. in this entire meeting, you said thank you. you went to pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in october, offer some words of appreciation for the united states of america and the president who's trying to

save your country. >> please. you think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you. >> cannot. speaking loudly. >> ukrainian president zelensky exiting the white house, not as planned. there was no press conference at 1 p.m. eastern after that exchange that you just witnessed in the oval office that took place a little over an hour ago, and he has now left the white house, not by the usual way, and not in the usual method, as eamon has outlined and entered the vehicle where he will be leaving the premises altogether. no mineral deal, nothing that came or was supposed to come potentially from his meeting with the president and with vice president vance, which you just saw portions of there. eamon is still with us. eamon, a quick comment. >> yeah. well, first of all, we're going to need to figure out who that official was who shook zelensky's hand as he came out. this was a very rushed you saw the marine honor guard there had gone back into the white house as if this departure was not happening. then all of a sudden the marines came out, you

know, there on the spot as quick as they can. and they came out, lined up that door and got it open within seconds before zelensky came out, a very rushed handshake with an official in a blue suit who i didn't recognize. in a quick flash, zelensky is now in the vehicle and i can hear the motorcade. the motorcycles are now all firing up again. they've got the security gate at the white house open, and it looks like this departure is going to happen momentarily. clearly, we were just talking about the idea of a potential trump handshake there at the door to signal, you know, we've sort of patched things over a little bit since the blow up. that didn't happen. zelensky's body language was very hasty, and now you see the vehicle begin to move. they're going to come down the driveway here and just past me. i can tell you that some reporters were down at that west wing door shouting questions at vladimir zelensky as he left. he didn't respond to any of those questions, got into the vehicle and now he is heading down the driveway. he's going to pass right behind our live shot

position here. i'll see if i can get a sight of him as he rolls by us here, followed by a staff van here. kelly. and i can. >> tell you. >> that the word. >> zelensky to use as well. go ahead. >> i can tell you, i just saw zelensky in the car, you know, no wave, no thumbs up. zelensky was on his phone as he was walking out typing something on what looked like an iphone as he was rolling out the driveway here just seconds ago. so that is the end of this meeting. clearly, there's a whole lot hanging in the air and we just don't have any answers now. a minerals deal, a military aid deal. what the future of the relationship is between the united states and ukraine, what russia makes of all this and what europe makes of all this incredibly dramatic stuff playing out here at the white house today? kelly. >> indeed. eamon, thank you very much, eamon. javers, we'll come back to you. of course, with more. meantime, ian bremmer is now standing by for us from eurasia group. he's on the line. ian, you can start wherever you

think to start here, you know. but there's the meeting itself, you know, with none of us have ever seen anything quite like that. there's the way it's going to play in the us, the way it's going to play in ukraine. and investors who are trying to game out what this means for the, you know, ongoing, you know, war between ukraine and russia now. >> yeah, this is a fundamental break of the united states from ukraine and from their nato allies on ukraine. i mean, trump basically telling the ukrainian president directly that i'm not going to support you because you're playing games with world war three. that is that's a pretty staggering statement. this comes on the back of comparatively constructive conversations and visits from both the french president and the british pm. but of course, ukraine is the critical country here. and trump has been, you know, signaling that he's been uncomfortable with continuing u.s. aid, uncomfortable with providing security guarantees. at this point, if you are a nato

ally of the united states, you can assume that the americans are out until proven otherwise. you can assume the americans are out. the ability of the europeans and willingness to backstop the ukrainians by themselves is, at best, something we should be skeptical about. this really throws, i think, the alliance in into a fundamental crisis mode. and it also puts some very big questions to the europeans and how much they can do immediately to help ensure that the ukrainians can defend themselves, because, i mean, right now what you have is trump basically saying, i'm prepared to do a deal with the russians bilaterally over the heads of both the ukrainians and my nato allies. and this deal is going to be much broader than just about the future of the ukraine war. >> what might that deal look like? >> well, i think it would include things like full reestablishment of diplomatic relations, business engagement,

including a broader critical minerals deal than what was being signed nominally by the americans and ukrainians, a restart of arms control negotiations between the two countries. it would not include membership in the g7, which would never be expected except by america's g7 allies, if we can call them that. but but certainly would look like a full normalization and it would lead to a cease fire that the americans and russians would agree to, and the ukrainians might or might not. how that they would, how they would fight on and with what kind of support and how effectively is an open question. but if putin is prepared to accept america's terms and the ukrainians are not. well, i mean, that is that is a very, very vulnerable position for both ukraine and for nato to be in. >> just one more on this, ian, what would you say to americans who support zelenskyy in premise? you know, they say your country was invaded. of course you have to stand up for

yourself, do what you can and so forth. but is this an open to what extent to what cost for the us? how much longer could something like this go on? does the president have a point when he says we need to end it? because otherwise we're risking world war three and the us just can't stay involved forever, essentially. >> well, most republicans. >> in his caucus in the senate and house don't agree with him. that's why they were willing to support the additional 60 plus billion dollars of aid last year. despite trump's skepticism, there's certainly a much more aligned with zelensky than they are with putin. but they are not in power. trump is, and they and trump has full loyalty from his cabinet, of course, in a way that he didn't in 2017. and he has full loyalty from the gop, at least publicly, in a way that he didn't in 2017. and i think that those realities are going to make it much harder for anyone to come out against him. i mean, there are a lot of republicans in the senate that are completely unhappy with the ending of usaid program, and they've been talking about it a lot privately. how many of them

are willing to challenge trump publicly? very, very few. and i suspect that that will be the case on russia, ukraine as well. but this is clearly the biggest test internationally that trump will be experiencing, because it does reflect a decisive break, not just from the bipartisan us consensus to support ukraine for the last three years, but also the broad nato consensus. as much as this war has been enormously painful and costly, the fact is that pretty much all nato allies have been in lockstep in their support for ukraine and their coordination of that policy for three years. now, that ends today. >> ian, stay right there. we want to just kind of bring people back up to speed on how the markets have been digesting all of this. in fact, she was standing by tom. we tipped lower now trying to maybe, you know, bring it back a little. what do you see? >> this is the digestion that you're talking about. and maybe the better way to describe the market action that we've seen so far today, kelly, is that investors and traders have seen this before, specifically over

the course of just the past couple of months. what you have is a scenario where the volatility comes in on a fractional basis on an intraday level, but investors are now at least feeling a little bit more like this is a negotiating tactic or, or something. that's not the end of all things by any measure. to that the dow industrials are back up fractionally about one tenth of 1%. it's that same percentage gain across the board 43,002 97 is our dow. the s&p is at 5868 again one tenth of 1% gain. same for the nasdaq composite at 18,005 58. i will point out that we did take a run in that tech heavy nasdaq at one point towards 18,356. the reason why that's important is that's that 200 day moving average or longer term trend line for the nasdaq composite. we haven't really been down towards that area in quite some time, so keep an eye on that level. we did try to touch it before, bounce back a little bit. and just to show you on an intraday basis for the s&p

500 overall, what things have kind of looked like you can kind of see most of the day had been just about in positive territory. that brief area around that trump-zelensky meeting is when we saw the move lower, albeit fractionally. and here's where we are right now. so that's the state of play in the markets kelly. investors and traders. again the feel is you know what's going to happen here. this is not any kind of a real outcome that's been determined already. and markets are pricing that in on a marginal basis. i'll send things back. >> coming off a rough week rough month. tom, thanks. ian bremmer is still with us from eurasia group. ian. so where does this leave russia now? ian bremmer, i should say, was with us. eamon javers is back at the white house. let's go back down there to check in with him amid zelensky's departure prematurely, and not in the way that was expected or planned after that contentious oval office meeting with president trump. >> eamon kelly, i mean, your question about where does this leave russia now is a

fascinating one, and we don't know the answer to that. we do have a statement out from the russian government calling this meeting today, quote, historic unquote. they will like what they've seen here today. what what russia wants is to be able to sign a peace deal with ukraine on the most favorable terms possible in terms of territory and in terms of any kind of assets, mineral or otherwise, that they may have been able to seize so far in this war. what they've seen today play out is the us back away from its ukrainian ally, and a seeming entire break in relations between the united states and ukraine. that suggests that there might not be any more military aid if you're russia, if you're sitting at the kremlin watching this play out. you're thrilled. this is exactly what you want. this gives you the advantage now to press the war militarily without the fear of more u.s. military aid coming in the short term. and it also

puts vladimir zelensky on the spot in terms of any potential negotiations, any terms he agrees to now will probably be worse than any terms he would have agreed to before today. >> yeah. senior white house official on the wires eamon saying the press conference was canceled. obviously no deal was. >> signed that. >> yeah, it's up to the ukrainians. >> you know that the press conference is off. >> it's over. he said it's up to the ukrainians if it can be rescheduled while zelensky is still in the country. so leaving open, i guess some possibility also. i just want to read you this comment from macron in france, his reaction to what took place in the oval office. he says russia is the aggressor and ukraine is the oppressed people. we were all ready to help ukraine and sanction russia three years ago and continue to do so. and we must respect those who have been fighting since the beginning. >> yeah. and you saw that comment from zelensky in the oval office as the president told him, look, you don't have the cards in this negotiation. obviously, that's an american idiom. zelensky's english is very good and has gotten much better since the war went on.

not clear whether he understood that or not, but he said, we're not playing cards here. and this is a leader who has been, you know, he was under threat of russian assassination squads in kyiv in the early days of this war. the russians have bombed places where they believe zelensky has been. he has been under physical threat for his life. for three years. he's watched an incredible loss of life. almost an entire generation of young ukrainian men poured into the trenches on the front line, dying to preserve square miles of ukraine from the russian onslaught. you can imagine that, you know he's not in the mood. he's not in the emotional headspace for a lot of the diplomatic niceties that are being demanded of him in this moment. and when j.d. vance says to him, you know, you're not being respectful. you're not saying thank you. you can see in the body language of zelensky as he folds his arms, as he nods, as he he puts his hands on his his knees. real, real frustration with what he had to

go through there in the oval office, and a sense that this relationship may be slipping away beyond his grasp. >> absolutely. eamon, appreciate all the reporting you've been doing for us this hour. eamon javers is at the white house looking to energy for some reaction. it's a bit of a mixed bag. we see crude under a little bit of pressure down a 10th or so. in fact pippa stevens is here. so pippa, just curious for your thoughts on that. when we've seen the prospect of an agreement or termination in the war, we've often seen energy prices sell off somewhat. i'm a little surprised they're not going higher today. but then there are tariffs and all these other things to contend with. >> yeah, exactly. and there's. >> so much going on whether you look at russia, venezuela or iran. so there's a lot to factor in right now. and of course what the market hates more than bad news is uncertainty. but if we focus on those tariffs specifically that are set to go into effect next week. and so even that reduced 10% tariff on canadian oil could have really big energy consequences across markets and lead to higher prices for consumers. so the us is the world's largest oil

producer, but we still import roughly 6.6 million barrels per day of crude, more than 60% of which comes from canada. now, much of that is what's known as sour crude. the us primarily produces light crude oil, and so refiners can't just switch gears. it's not 1 to 1. patrick de haan from gasbuddy said this could ultimately lead to as much as a 25 cent increase on prices at the pump. in the short term, should canada retaliate with export tariffs? prices could go even higher now. on the nuclear side, the impact could be even larger. the us imports almost 100% of its uranium, with more than a quarter coming from canada, and segregate capital put it the only credible path to u.s. fuel security is to have stronger ties with our northern neighbor. now, much of that uranium comes from cameco, which has tariff clauses in many of its contracts, meaning the off taker will have to pay that higher price. now, in regulated utility markets, think dominion, duke, southern company and entergy. fuel is a pass through cost, so if the utility is paying a higher price, that ultimately winds up on consumers bills. and so, kelly, that's why

people are saying we still could see an even greater exemption for canadian energy. >> yeah. so you know, the big issue the last couple of years. let's rewind to when the russia war first broke out. we had soaring gas, gas prices, lean prices, some extent, oil prices, some extent huge increases in natural gas prices. then you go back to this month. we'll look at what's been happening in europe. right. the stock market's been taking off. we've seen natural gas prices coming down on this sense of look. it looks like both sides are moving. trump made a big deal about wanting to bring in bring an end to this war. and he's going to try to do so. now comes today. the market looks like it's still giving them the benefit of the doubt that this is just maybe a setback. and we're still going to be heading towards something like that. conclusion. >> yeah i mean maybe, but i think what what to the earlier point is that there's just so much uncertainty coming out of the white house thus far, and there's been a lot of kind of overarching energy policy announced. but when you really, really comes down to nitty gritty, it's hard to actually get these terminals built or projects up and running. and so i think right now, what the

market is saying is we don't know what's going to happen with this administration even today, with the critical and, you know, the critical minerals and raw or steel that is apparently now on pause. you know, the market doesn't want to react and have a knee jerk reaction. and so we're seeing people just be on the sidelines. >> instead in a holding pattern for sure. pippa, thanks. appreciate it today pippa stevens. and that wraps up the exchange. but don't go anywhere. i'll join you for power lunch right after this quick break. brian will join us as well. we'll get more of his perspective on energy and everything that's just taking place. stay with us. >> nothing stands still. not technology, not the market, and not franklin templeton. we've been a firm in motion for over 75 years, always innovating. today, we are a leader in public and private markets, digital assets and custom tax management, empowering advisors with solutions to build the with solutions to build the portfolios of the future. today, business.

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>> all right. welcome to power lunch. >> alongside kelly evans i'm dominic chu. it's been an eventful afternoon to say the very least. it's a historic day. a televised argument, an argument between two world leaders from inside the oval office. we were supposed to see a joint press conference between those leaders, but president vladimir zelensky of ukraine has left the white house in just the last 15 minutes or so. checking the market reaction, stocks turned lower on the news and then briefly went positive again, but are now fractionally in the red now. so it's been a volatile session, although not by major amounts. it's still typical of what we've seen with developments out of the trump administration on anything from tariffs to geopolitics. >> we're also coming