earnings. the turnaround is just getting going. >> all right joe. >> let's end the show on a positive note. yeah that. >> cme chart. are you talking to yourself. see you're telling yourself. >> time. hi. >> remember i told. >> you i think this week. >> i think. >> it's a tactical buying opportunity. >> i perked up with 5955. all right i'll see you on the closing bell. >> thank you very much. >> scott. >> and welcome to. >> the exchange. >> i'm kelly evans. it's another selloff on wall street. as you've just heard. the s&p is now at its lowest. >> level since september. >> since september before. >> the election. fresh data today is. >> not helping quell recession fears. and the nasdaq. >> is seeing the biggest losses. once again. >> it's down. >> 12% from the. >> highs, with today's 3%. >> drop, nvidia. >> is down 5%, tesla is down 12 and is 8% below where it was on election day. bitcoin below 80,000. it's up just 13% since election day. hsbc downgrading

us equities in favor of european stocks today. but our guest disagrees and insists the best growth prospects prospects are still right here. we'll talk about that in a moment and take a look at the airline stocks, which another guest of ours today has been flagging as a warning sign of an economic slowdown, with cyclical sectors like the airlines under pressure. you can see delta, for instance, down 7% today. we'll hear more about that later this hour. but let's start with these fresh data points on the economy. steve liesman joins us with more. and steve, this has got retail stocks under more pressure. what can you tell us. >> yeah. consumer spending kelly declining for a. >> second straight straight month in our cnbc, nrf february retail monitor driven by weather issues as well as policy uncertainty in washington, according to the nrf, the retail monitor, it is powered by real credit card spending data from affinity solutions. it shows retail spending ex auto and gas down 020. 2% after that sharp decline of 1.07% in january.

removing restaurants showed the same decline. the year over year rates falling for both indices. now the spending decline was broad, based down in nine of our 12 sectors and seven of the 12 sectors. it's now fallen for two months in a row. on the plus side, the new york fed survey of consumer expectations shows consumers inflation's outlook inflation outlook remain unchanged but still elevated the one year up by just a tick at 3.1%. the three year and the five year, both unchanged at 3% towards the higher side, but at least not going up more at the same time. kind of curiously, expectations for gas, food, rent and medical care all went up in some cases kind of sharply, but it didn't seem to affect for the moment those broader inflation expectations. i just showed you unemployment expectations rising 5.4 percentage points, the highest level since september 2023, and 27.4% of households expect worse financial conditions in one year. that's the highest since last fall or

since fall of 2023. markets, meanwhile, continue to place relatively high probabilities on quarter point rate cuts from the fed in june, september and december, now at 66%. the key to those cuts could be keeping inflation expectations under control where we started. but that's going to depend critically, kelly, on how businesses and households react to current and future tariffs. >> kelly remind me, what do we get the rest of the week data wise? we just had the jobs report. >> oh boy. it's a great well you know no rest for the weary here. hang on i've got my schedule right in front of me here. i'm going to call it up. cpi on wednesday, nfib and jolts tomorrow, cpi wednesday, ppi on thursday and another consumer sentiment number on friday. >> all right. that's going to be kind of the dashboard i think for markets navigating all of this steve stay with us. my next guest is going to try to talk us off the ledge a little bit. kathy bostjancic is chief economist at nationwide mutual.

kathy, it's interesting that we're already jumping ahead to these questions about a recession, when really we have to first address the slowdown. is it happening now? is it happening in the back half of the year? what do you think the data are telling us? >> yeah. hi, kelly. >> happy to join you. well, yeah, there's a lot to digest. >> i mean, if you just look. >> at the current. >> data, we. >> are not on the precipice of a recession like the employment data on friday. really put to rest some of those concerns, right? we had. >> a solid. >> employment gain and income gains were. >> were also very healthy. >> and that means. there's wherewithal income for consumers to keep spending. now that all said, you know, markets are forward looking and there are big policy changes being put in place by the white house. or at least, you know, that's. >> their goal. >> and what. >> we you know, what people. >> are getting. >> spooked about the investors is that donald trump and treasury secretary benson have indicated there could be some short term pain before we get to long term gain. and i think

investors, consumers, businesses are trying to understand what policies will actually be implemented and. how much, you know, short. >> term pain. >> do we. >> have to go through. >> and i think the other thing is the markets and even. >> and we to a degree, in our baseline. >> view, assume that. >> there is a. >> a trump put, you know, the previous. >> show was talking about the fed put but it's. really the trump put meaning they. wouldn't push things so far to engineer a real deep, you know, downturn or recession. and now that's being questioned whether that's true or not. and are they going to look through the short term to get to their long term gains, which is really completely redoing international trade and economics and, and geopolitics, really. >> unless they're not i mean, kathy, are you in the camp that this is a reengineering or that it's not? that's one of the areas where investors feel a little bit uncertain, because every time we back down from a tariff announcement, then it feels like, well, then there's not a reengineering taking place here. >> that's right. it's not clear

right at this point, because i think the stop and go on the tariff front, i think their long term goals are still in place, but then maybe there's some wavering as to, well, how quickly do we want to take this? and in government, you know, job layoffs and cutting spending, all of that's restrictive, even immigration restricting that. and what's happening is you get the kind of anti growth measures before you get potential pro growth right from deregulation or tax cuts. that really comes next year. and so that's the problem. you don't have the cushion in the near term. and how far do they want to push that i think is the question. >> i think steve's consumer sentiment is super interesting right now as well, because the umich survey has been quite negative, but then others are a little bit more constructive. i think a lot of the anecdotes that people are experiencing from the doge cuts are making them feel as if they're kind of their livelihood or a service they depend on is under assault. and that by definition, they're sort of extending that to recession. even if the top level data right now are still hanging

in there. >> yeah. and let me remind you, kelly, what i had said back when that weak economic data came out in january, because i'm going to contradict myself. i had said i wanted to wait a month to see the february data. well, we have some february data. of course. we have the government's retail number to come in and it is weak, but it's not off the charts weak. and i want to remind you something that kathy kind of alluded to there. consumers have the wherewithal to spend. we had a nice bump in income in the month of january, but spending trailed off and the savings rate went up, which is a sense that, hey, people are being cautious right now, but they still have the wherewithal to spend if we can maybe get what what appears to have been at least something of a weather issue behind us, and some of this concern out there about the economy and the policies. but one other thing that causes me a bit more concern is this when you have downturns or recessions, one of the circuit breakers is government spending. well, this administration is going right after government

spending as part of its programs or policy. so it seems a little bit like we're headed into some softness without a net, so to speak. now, hopefully the fed can step up if the tariffs don't cause a more widespread inflation, and it looks more clear to the fed than what we're talking about here is decline in aggregate demand. but if you have an inflation problem it's going to stay the fed's hand. and on the other hand you'll have this federal spending decline that could add to the weakness. >> and goldman was out with their forecast where they say look we're below the street for the first time in a couple of years, but they're still seeing a 1.7% expansion. so just to build on what steve is saying, i almost feel like what we're going through is the first kind of government recession we've been through in a long, long time, and its tentacles are reaching everywhere. i wrote about this today, but, you know, you turn around and if someone has an anecdote about how it's personally affecting them. so i almost feel like it has a bigger consumer sentiment hit than an economic hit, because you and goldman and dean mckee and everybody who's in this camp

that we're slowing down are still not talking about an outright recession. >> no. that's right. and it does depend on on the policy, you know, what's actually implemented. but, you know, talking about the job cuts. so there's also private sector implications. so if the job cuts are deep on the federal side, that will spill over to contractors. and brookings has done some research that shows if you five government jobs at the federal level, there's two private contractors. so you can see, you know, and i would say you can see the worry and the concern and it's there. i think the question is how far does the white house take it? you know, do they take remove the hatchet and use a scalpel and slow things down, or is it just, you know, keep going straight forward and, you know, full engines are moving at this point and then that's then that does increase the risk of recession. and it's just unclear. and then with the tariffs, what do we get on april 2nd. you know, what is reciprocal and what happens with canada and mexico. all of this

right now is really uncertain. yeah. and we have to wait and see. but and the key is whether that trump put is still there. does he care about the markets. does he care about the near term economy enough to kind of forestall, you know, the speed by which they get to those long term changes? >> you think it's still there, at least to some extent, despite kind of what he's saying. so i think we're going to find out in the next couple of weeks. kathy and steve. thanks, kathy. bostjancic. steve liesman. >> hey, kelly. >> yes, kelly. yes. >> i'm a recent subscriber to your column, and i just want to tell people they better sign up. it's a really good read. >> thank you, thank you. that was not not a sponsored solicited. yeah, exactly. thank you very much. i always say this this administration, it's been it's been bad for a lot of people's business. but i don't know maybe good for the news business. thank you guys. if you think you missed your chance to get in on the rally in european stocks. meanwhile, hsbc says you still have time because they expect europe to keep outperforming the u.s. they double upgraded european equities from under to overweight, citing that huge

fiscal stimulus plan announced last week. u.s. stocks meanwhile, they got a downgrade to neutral over the president's policy uncertainty. my next guest disagrees, though. joining us for more is larry adam. he's the cio at raymond james. larry, look, we're at session lows across the board right now. the nasdaq is now down 4%. you know tesla's down 50% from the highs all the way up. can you just start by telling us what's going on here. >> well well first of all, with the call against europe, i think it's too early to go into europe. the reason i say that is that if you look over the first two months of the year, europe has outperformed the united states by more than 10%. that's happened four times over the last 30 years and then the preceding 12 months. the us has outperformed each and every time and on average by about 8%. so i would caution people that it may be a little late to try and get on to that european bandwagon. as we sit here right now. >> a little early to get onto the bandwagon. >> yes. >> okay. got it. so you you want you want more proof in the pudding. is that right?

>> well. >> i just think longer term, first of all. >> if. >> i look at the fundamentals right, the us is expected to. grow double than what europe is expected to grow. if you look at earnings growth you're talking about 12% versus 8%. us companies are more profitable. and then if you look from a macro perspective, if we do get these tariff wars, i think that europe is going to be penalized more than the us. and then when i look at other things like lower tax rates here in the united states, when you look at the fact that you have much more value creation, 50% of the world's venture capital money comes to the united states. i think that that has long term positive repercussions on our markets. so i'm not really ready to say that europe is really has a game changer, and it's going to outperform longer term. >> understood. let's kind of zero in on exactly what's going on with the market right now larry. the nasdaq is down 12% from the recent highs 4% today. the momentum in growth stocks have all totally skidded. and just kind of explain this to us. how do you unpack it and what do you do.

>> well i don't think it's really unexpected. as we came out with our ten themes for this year, we talked about optimism overload. we came into the year. everybody was optimistic, right? if you look at business, confidence was at the highest level in two and a half years. consumer confidence was at the highest level in three years. investor confidence was pretty much at an all time record high. and as we know, sometimes when you get too far on one side, it sets up for a more susceptible market. and i do think that's what you're seeing right now. i don't think this is out of the ordinary. historically, we get 3 to 4 5% or more pullbacks in a given year. this is our first of the year. so we're actually talking about this ultimately providing a nice buying opportunity particularly in the area that you're mentioning. when you look at the nasdaq big cap tech stocks, they're the least expensive valuations that they've been since 2017. yet they're expected to have the best earnings growth of any sector in the s&p 500, with earnings expected to be up north of 17%. so i actually think it's

an opportunity at these levels. >> that's interesting because some would say we're correcting from levels we shouldn't have been at in the first place. you know, when you get to the idea of this overenthusiasm and everybody's buying in the levels that crypto was at or otherwise, but at least in terms of the mag seven, i'm assuming you're excluding tesla. maybe you're including it. you think this is a buying opportunity and that they should continue to go back up to those previous highs and higher? >> i do. i think that the investment in the technology space remains very healthy. as i mentioned, valuations are at the most attractive levels since 2017. i do see some green shoots underneath all the bad news that's coming out. i would keep in mind that gasoline prices have been down three weeks in a row. when i look at interest the continue to come down, so that should help some of the housing related or interest rate sensitive parts of the market. tax refunds, by the way, are 26% higher than they were at this time last year, which should help the consumer. and then i think the fed is going to be there. we're looking for two more cuts this year. the

consensus is that three cuts. but i think that that's important because not too long ago people were talking about a hike. so i still think that there's some positive things building underneath the surface here. >> and for investors who are going to be tempted to tilt defensive consumer staples health care, those are areas that we hear mentioned a lot. would you be interested there as well, or are you looking at more at kind of like the growthy areas that have now undergone this pullback in correction? >> so i would say both i do like the growthier areas, part of the market of those two defensives. i do like health care. i think it has good visibility of earnings. i'm a little surprised by what's happened here with consumer staples. obviously interest rates have gone lower, which has helped that sector. but if i want to talk about a sector that could be impacted by increased tariffs, that's a sector that could pressure margins on that sector. and i'd be very cautious with the rally that we've seen here so far. >> in health care. >> well, within health care, that is one of my three favorite sectors. i think the visibility is good. i think there was it was trading at probably one of

the most attractive levels. it underperformed last year in a in an election year. historically the year after the election, you see a bounce back and again with the attractive valuations and healthy robust earnings growth that we expect in that sector, i think that could be an outperformer this year. >> and so finally, you don't think that this is the beginning of a year. that's going to be tough sledding until we get the government funding bill passed this weekend and then go to the bigger budget fight and make sure that we're not going to have the tax cuts, you know, expiring at the end of the year. you don't think investors have to be on the sidelines for all of that? >> i don't i think, for example, if we even did have a shutdown historically during shutdowns, we've had, you know, 20 of them dating back to 1976. during that time period, the market's essentially had a lot of volatility, but ended up being flat from beginning to end. but 12 months later, 85% of the time the market's been higher. and then i do think once we get some more clarity and i think that clarity should come pretty soon when it comes to tariffs. but i think by the end of this year when we start to get some more

momentum with these tax cuts being extended, when we settle down with some of these headlines coming out with a lot of these cuts and layoffs, i think the market will be primed to move higher. >> all right, larry, appreciate you joining us today. thank you so much. thank you larry adam with raymond james. meantime ex central banker mark carney. we all remember him from the financial crisis set to become canada's first prime minister with no electoral experience. he's not shying away from a trade war with the us either. take a listen. >> my government will keep our tariffs on until the americans show us respect. we didn't ask for this fight, but canadians are always ready when someone else drops the gloves. so the americans, they should make no mistake in trade, as in hockey canada will win. >> i can hear desantis saying no, we want. anyway. he played a crucial role in steering canada through the great financial crisis and england through brexit. but will canada's next prime minister be able to keep up with trump's trade war? let's bring in fred kemp. he's the ceo

of the atlantic council and a cnbc contributor. fred, i mean, in a weird way, then the liberal party in canada might be the only incumbent party during covid that doesn't get thrown out of office, right? >> you know, i. >> have known mark carney for some time. >> he's been. >> the head of central. >> bank of two. >> g7 countries with. canada during the financial crisis. >> and he. >> managed it well through interest rates. and then. >> he became. >> the first non-brit to lead the uk central bank. and he did that through brexit. and now he's got to lead canada through one of its most difficult times, which is potential trade war with a country that has a lot more leverage. and as you said, he's not a politician. but boy, does he know currencies. does he know trade and he knows how to fight this war. and i his quote was a very interesting one. i think the trump administration in general is underpricing the retaliation that will come from other countries on trade matters, not just because of

economic reasons, but as you heard from mark carney, from domestic political reasons, he's saying canada will win. that's a domestic political statement from a person who hasn't been in domestic politics before. >> and i'm trying to keep up, fred, with what's actually taking effect as we watch the market. so today i thought the ontario doug ford, ontario premier, had said, you know, electricity prices are being tariffed or throttled or whatever going into the us. we have today, the china tariffs, the 15%, not the 10% on soy and corn, 15% on chicken and a few other products going into effect. so even as the president has dialed back from some of the stiffer tariffs, there are still so many things going into place bringing us into territory we haven't been in before. >> well, you've got the highest tariff point for u.s. tariffs globally since 1943. imagine if the steel and aluminum tariffs go through 25%. you could add that to an already 25% of canada. if these come back on again, that would be 50% on canadian tariffs. you already see suppliers in the united

states. you know, whether you go on or off, there's still a cost to it. people are building up their supplies, building up their backlogs. they're already buying up, and they're going cash flow to buy up supplies from canada. in preparation of this kind of a moment. so i think what the market has learned last week and this week is that this is not trump, one where tariffs were a negotiating position. this is trump two where tariffs will be a negotiating position. they will also be tariffs as tariffs to bring in revenue to move manufacturing. and they'll be tariffs as punishment as sanctions for whether it's fentanyl or whether it's for the brics countries by moving away from the dollar. and so i think what we're learning is these tariffs are there to stay even when they may not have a particular economic logic. and even if they may cause inflati orn economic slowdown. >> yeah. and to the extent that sheinbaum is a template here of how to deal with the president and kind of the best interests of her country, they had that

big rally in mexico city over the weekend, huge attendance, huge passion and excitement. but her playbook has been rather conciliatory. actually. >> it's been conciliatory, but it's also been what i'm getting as a message of how to deal with president trump and the trump administration from foreign leaders is engage, engage, engage. and that's what sheinbaum has done. and my guess is that's what mark carney will do. i mean, he may actually find a way to a much better relationship than his predecessor in the party, trudeau, which i guess won't be hard because trudeau had such a bad relationship. but carney may be just the kind of person that president trump can find a wavelength with and get along with. but i think it's really crucial to engage. it's crucial to have some other leverage than than trump's leverage. but also, i think engagement and is always incredibly important with this very transactional president. >> you know, i want to ask you, fred, it's hard to resist the temptation to say, well, so do you buy canada here? do you buy mexico? do you buy china? i

mean, which of these is you kind of think through it from our audience point of view, like the investor brain here, you know, where do you think markets have priced in worse outcomes than what we might get and where have they not priced in outcomes that are worse. >> well, as a non global investor i'm going to tell you what to buy. buy bumpy. this is going to be bumpy. it's going to be chaotic. it's going to be disruptive. and it's going to be that way for 3 or 4 years. and so i think what you can expect is a lot of volatility. and i think those who buy on volatility will do best. it is really interesting. the ruble is up 25% this year. who would have bet that january 1st canada, europe and china are way outperforming the united states. that wasn't that wasn't on anyone's bingo card. so i heard your previous investor talking about how the us is still a buy. us tech is going to come back. i think, you know, that's what the us has going for it. it's got so

much liquidity. it's got so much attractiveness to the market. but you know you can't give investors too many reasons not to buy the united states. and other investments will start looking, start looking a little better. there's no doubt that china is taking advantage of this moment of bumpiness where they're saying, look, we're the we're the we're the more reliable partner right now. we're the more reliable country to work with. i certainly don't buy that myself. but i think you do see investors willing to take some bets on china that they weren't willing to take bets on last quarter of last year. >> no. well said. and it's a big change in sentiment as well, given how bearish sentiment was on china up until very recently. fred, as always thanks. appreciate you joining us, fred kemp with the atlantic council. we'll sneak in a quick break here. utilities are one of only three sectors in the green today with nextera one of the top performers. but the clean energy producer is at risk of getting caught in washington's budget battle. we'll speak with the ceo about that ahead, and we'll continue to track this market

sell off with the s&p and nasdaq back to their lowest levels since september. the nasdaq also having its worst day in two and a half years as it falls nearly 4%. the dow down more than 600 and is negative since the election joining the s&p and nasdaq. we're back after this nasdaq. we're back after this with much more. stay with u i don't play for money. my ambition is to play big—to help and inspire others. that's why i joined sofi. they help people earn more and save more, so they can realize their ambitions. sofi. get your money right. did a cleanse and i said, i can't do this anymore. >> i asked. >> a couple buddies. i said, how do i lose this weight? >> and the guy. >> goes, lifemd got on the computer immediately, and probably the easiest thing i've ever done. the medication comes in the mail and it's very easy to use. i've been able to live my normal lifestyle and i've

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welcome back to the exchange. the s&p and nasdaq are at their lowest level since september, with the nasdaq having its worst day in two and a half years, down just under 4%. dow down 655 negative since the election. same goes for the s&p and nasdaq already. and now all of the mag seven names are in the red today. tesla is by far the worst performer, down 13% for its worst day since last summer. it's 50% below its record high from december. that's about $800 billion in market cap gone during that time. apple is also having its worst day in two and a half years, down nearly 6%. we'll hear more on that later. and for the rest of the big mega-caps, nvidia is at its lowest since september. elsewhere, bitcoin below 80,000, close to its lowest level since late november, up about 1,415% since election day, a little less. the crypto related stocks are also suffering, with robinhood having its worst day since halloween. they also agreed to a $30 million

settlement with finra. also, strategy ma holdings and coinbase are in the red today by about the same amount 1,213%. here are some of the names bucking the trend. there are some new all time highs today, including autozone, mcdonald's, church and dwight, and even kroger. enphase energy is leading the s&p with a fifth straight day of gains up more than 20% in that time, but 5% lower year to date and 50% below its recent highs from last summer. let's get to bertha coombs now for the cnbc news update. hi, bertha. >> hi, kelly. >> two maritime. >> security sources are telling reuters that the crash between an oil tanker carrying jet fuel and a container ship off the coast of england did not have any indications of malicious activity. the stena immaculate tanker, which caught fire in the collision, was on a short term u.s. military charter while it was anchored off the coast. the trump administration has rescinded two memos that encourage states to consider climate change in infrastructure projects. the transportation secretary, sean duffy, said the

memos, which were issued during the biden administration, conflicted with congress's intent in passing the $1 trillion infrastructure law. and harvard university will temporarily freeze hiring as the trump administration threatens to cut federal funding to colleges and universities. the university said today the move was to assess how federal policy could impact the institution's financial stability. last week, the trump white house said that it was canceling $400 million in federal grants and contracts to columbia university over its handling of the harassment of jewish students. but kelly, for a lot of universities, it's those nih cuts and research in health care that is really one of the things that they are grappling with right now. >> oh, yeah, i've heard much about it. bertha. thanks, bertha. coombs. coming up, one money manager says the rotation from growth to value started last summer and could last up to three years. just look at verizon handily outperforming

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716 points right now. the nasdaq nearly 4%. it's the worst performer. and tesla is one of the biggest laggards, shaving nearly 60 points off the nasdaq 100. today the stock is down about 12%. and that's worked out well for one of the calls my next guest made right here on the exchange back in august of 2023, when he told us he preferred verizon over tesla. since then, is this true that verizon is up 41% versus tesla's 6%? >> sure. >> entry price is everything? >> kelly i like that. it really is though. chris crisanti is back here with me. he's the chief market strategist at may because we see these growth stocks go on these huge runs to the upside and downside, we kind of never get the chance to put it into this larger perspective. >> that's really true. >> and what a lot of investors miss. is that. you have to choose a great company, but you also. have to choose a great entry price. and the valuation, especially over the last several

years, has really gotten out of whack as growth has outperformed value by the most ever that we've ever seen. so. so now we're just kind of getting back. >> and it's not just a kind of high fliers versus steady eddie thing. so you also have flagged, look, is there something more cyclical the market is trying to tell us. and the average person might turn on and go, yeah, obviously. but you know, but we're trying to figure out is this just a correction from overexuberance or is there a slowdown coming. so what do you think? >> i think that's a really good point. i think something different is happening and i think it's important. so what you've had over the past couple of years is every so often these tech stocks will get ahead of themselves. they pull the market down with them. and we'd have what i would call a natural, probably healthy correction. this is not that. what we have here is the economically sensitive stocks leading the way down. you've got banks that are tanking. you've got airlines that are tanking. the worst groups are the financials, the industrials and the consumer discretionary like retailers. so this is the market saying economic slowdown now is it. right. you know the old saw about the market predicting

eight of the last two recessions. maybe it's wrong. the problem is one it's different this time. so people should pay attention. and two what generally happens is things can fall even on irrational fears. and then they become self-fulfilling. if you're a purchasing manager at a company, maybe you're going to defer purchasing. maybe you're going to defer hiring, maybe you're going to defer capex plans, and then it becomes self-fulfilling. and that's what i'm concerned about. >> it morphs from a market event into an economic event. exactly. so you're saying in the past, corrections we've had the past few years, when we see these big tech declines, it's mostly been centered there. and now because people go, well, yeah, but it's centered in tech again here as well. so i mean the momentum stocks are, you know, blowing up so to speak. i don't want to put it quite that strongly. but why are they showing some of the biggest areas of weakness. they're not kind of benefiting from any you know, the whole you know, you buy growth when there's no growth like that kind of trade. >> well, i think it's interesting because through the end of february, so the first two months of this year the market's been was kind of mediocre. and the mag seven was

actually down slightly. and the tech stocks weren't doing well, but the banks were up high single digits and the airlines were up. now that's all turned around. tech continues to lead the way downwards. but now it's joined by these economically sensitive stocks. and that's kind of flashing a yellow signal. >> it is odd to wake up and see the airlines down seven 8% right. >> every day for the last week. >> that's right. i've had some people write me and say they're buying them today. what would you say to those investors? >> i think well, they certainly went up a lot at the end of last year. i think, you know, historically airlines have been the canary in the coal mine. they're so economically sensitive, the high fixed costs. so they could be right. it's just a little too much risk for me. and they always look cheap at the top. so it's tough. >> larry adam was with us a couple of moments ago and he said he'd look at the mag seven. i'm not sure if he would include tesla, but. and he looked to be buying here on areas of this. there are stocks in there that you like as well. >> right there is for example google now has fallen so much it's less than 16 times next year's earnings estimates. so that's my favorite. and probably

not coincidentally because it's the cheapest one. it's also the only one that's kind of below a market multiple at the current valuation. so i like that. but but i don't think it's at all irrational to start sniffing around. nvidia is at, you know, 20 times next year's earnings. the question there. >> is 20. >> now next year's earnings. right. but the earnings growth is so fast. so the question now isn't is it cheap enough. because sure it is. is the question is are those earnings estimates going to be right. and that's a tougher question with nvidia i think than with some of the others. >> but it's interesting that you're looking more to a stock like nvidia as potentially being on a shopping list, right? >> no. the first time in several years for us, as in value territory, we're finally getting a shopping list together of things that that we always wanted to own. >> and what about the stuff that was out of favor? the verizon's. you know, we've done a few of these pair trades where you think, oh, there's no way, you know, is that something that you would still kind of go to as a safe haven or staples or we said this earlier, i know there's few health care names you've looked at. >> well, it's a really easy math game. so if you buy verizon it's

seven times earnings. it gets to a not lofty 11 times. the stock goes up almost 50%. and you collect a 7% dividend while you're waiting. so that story is about played out with verizon. but i see it happening again with pfizer that we've talked about again, which again is at eight times earnings now pays a 6% dividend. that's the kind of stock that not only can quietly earn you some money over a couple of years, but is a terrific place to be in a market like. >> this and unitedhealthcare, i mean, there are other, you know. >> yeah. no, i think that's one of my favorite investments right now, simply because they have had a perfect storm of bad events happen to them over the last six months, including investigations, obviously, the assassination. so i think that stock has been beaten down to kind of ten year low valuations. i'm excited about this. it's the best health insurer in the country. >> we have to go. but as a final word, then for those who are worried about a broader slowdown, what do you say in terms of how the market is pricing that in or could trade in the next few months? >> i'd say do your math. we've been through this before, do your math, and make wise decisions that you can live with. if there's another 10 or

15% down from here. so check your gut. if you can't live with that, then wait. >> move to the sidelines. right, chris. thanks. >> appreciate it. nice to. >> be. >> with you as always. chris grisanti. grisanti with mi capital management energy is going green today. it was the top performing sector and one of the few seeing gains as some of the old names get a boost amid growing republican support for some clean energy tax incentives. we'll have the details on how that's changing the budget battle on capitol hill, and we'll hear directly from the ceo of nextera next. here's another check on stocks that pretty much knew session lows. the dow down 750 points. the nasdaq down more than 4% for its worst day since 2022. we'll its worst day since 2022. we'll be right back after thi it all started with a small business idea. it's a pillow with a speaker in it! that's right craig. pulling in the perfect team to get the job done. i'm just here for the internets. at&t, it's super-fast! you locked us out?! and when thrown a curveball... arrggghh! ahhhh! [crashing sounds] we had everything we needed. is the internet out? don't worry, we have at&t internet back-up.

the next level network for small business. ♪♪ i sold a pillow! to help. a daily pill to drink less or to quit drinking altogether. qualify for treatment and or health.com. most power players on. >> wall street rate. >> nvidia a. >> strong buy today. yet why, then, are so many legendary investors quietly ignoring that advice and instead selling the stock hand over fist? every billionaire on your screen has recently sold nvidia. some have offloaded millions of shares. and mark my words, this is bigger than nvidia. hedge funds are quietly selling all of their tech stocks at the fastest rate we've seen since 2016. it begs the question what do they know that you don't? my name is mark

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as a result, i predict a different, under-the-radar stock is primed for big potential gains from this moment on. to get its name and ticker 100% free, simply visit the website below. >> don't miss a members only event. >> we make sure that club. >> members get the access they need. >> to make more informed decisions. >> join the cnbc investing club to access gyms monthly meeting. go to cnbc. com slash monthly meeting. >> welcome back to the exchange. congress only has about four days to avoid a government shutdown, and the chances of getting a bill passed are looking somewhat tenuous. emily wilkins joins us with those details. the margin, emily, as we know, is very slim. and they already lost massie. right. >> they did already lose massie. kelly. and, you know, there are

two hurdles that congress is going to have to overcome this week if they want to keep the government open. and the first is you identified its house republicans, if you remember, for the last two years, republicans, they have not been able to keep the government open without democratic help. but this time might be different. democrats are a hard no in the house, and trump met with these holdouts last week to make the case that if the department of government efficiency doge, that they need the government to stay open so they can keep working. and some republicans have bought on to that argument. you see, some of the usual holdouts say they're going to back this bill. but as you mentioned, one republican, thomas massie, he is opposed. he tweeted this morning that quote, unless i get a lobotomy monday that causes me to forget what i've witnessed in the past 12 years, i will be a no on the cr that continuing resolution this week. but you know, even if republicans are going to be able to pass it in the house, and we should know that tomorrow afternoon, they're not necessarily going to be able to pass it in the senate unless a handful of democrats come up

and back it as well. now, democrats have said they don't want a government shutdown, but this is really only one of the leverage points that democrats are going to get this year. and they want to use this moment to try to curb some of those drastic cuts that trump and elon musk are making. democratic senator elissa slotkin told meet the press yesterday that the president needs to follow the budget that congress sets. until i see some assurances. >> that whatever. >> we pass. >> next week is going to ensure that the money. >> is. >> spent the way congress intends it. i'm going to i'm going to withhold my vote until i see that. >> now, the bill mostly continues current funding levels, but it makes a few small changes. it does increase military funding by $6 billion and adds 485 million to customs and immigration enforcement. but house republican staffers say the bill does make some other cuts to non-defense spending, and will ultimately spend slightly less than current funding levels. and of course, kelly funding runs out at the end of the day on friday.

>> a little bit of a dry run for the bigger budget battle that might be coming. emily, for now, thanks. appreciate it, emily wilkins. another sticking point in that larger battle are the clean energy tax credits. 21 house republicans, whose districts have seen an influx of new investments thanks to the ira, are threatening to oppose the budget bill if those credits are part of the gop's tax cut package or tax cut extension package. let's get out to houston, where ceraweek is underway, and where we find my power lunch co-anchor brian sullivan with the nextera ceo, brian. >> yeah, kelly. >> i mean, listen. >> this is a critical time and. a critical topic. we're here. >> with the chair, ceo and president of nextera, john ketcham. they are. >> the biggest producer of renewable. energy in the world. so we this used. >> to be. >> an oil and gas conference. but now you've got amazon's here. google is here. microsoft is here. secretary of energy is here. what are they saying to you about the demand for power? whether it's for homes, data

centers, whatever it might be. >> it's going to increase six fold over the next 20 years. we need we are going to need energy and power from all different forms. that's going to be critically important. six fold, six. >> fold over the next 20 years. six fold over the. >> next 20 years. >> okay. >> how are we. >> going. >> to do that? >> it's got to come from everywhere. that's what's critically important. and so for a company like nextera, we're the leader in gas fired generation. we're the leader in renewables. and we're the seventh largest nuclear operator. we're perfectly positioned to answer that power demand, but we've got to make smart choices about cost and time to bring to market these generation solutions. and so when you think about gas fired generation, yeah, one of the things that is that has happened there is that we have a ton of demand for gas fired turbines, which is hurt the ability to

deliver them on time and has increased the cost. so if i wanted to build a gas fired generation facility tomorrow, nobody's built more than we have in the last 20 years. i can't get it online till 2030 or late. and it's three times more expensive because demand is forced. the price of the turbine up and the labor to build it, because it's really hard to find skilled labor. right now. they're all building data centers, semiconductor chip manufacturers. >> i think. >> this is. >> a critical point that you're making because we're a lot there's a lot. of gas, a lot of gas people here, they're very optimistic. what you're saying is that if you wanted to build a natural gas power plant. the costs have soared from even two years ago. that's right. because the manpower, labor, all those things. so then does that make solar? you're the biggest renewables generator in the world. does that make solar? does that make wind more cost

effective against gas? >> it makes it more cost effective against gas. but more importantly, it's really the only generation that's available right now to meet the power demand that's here today. folks can't wait to get electrons on the grid. they need power right now. if they have to wait, it's just going to chase the price of power up. and we're going to put all of our eggs in the gas fired generation basket. so with this letter that was just signed with 21 house republicans supporting the renewable credits and transferability, that's really important because it allows renewables to be built as a bridge to get us to in all of the above future, when we can have renewables, gas fired generation and nuclear. but that's going to take time, time for these supply chains to adjust. that won't happen until 2030 or later. in the meantime, we don't want an affordability crisis in this country where people are looking at their power bills and saying, what just happened to me? >> well, it's so it's how kelly

led into the segment. so if people don't know 21 house republicans cosigned a letter to the president, basically saying, listen, you want tax cuts, it's fine, but don't gut portions of the inflation reduction act, which give us tax credits for things like wind, you may not know in america, but if you drive up to upstate new york, there's a lot of windmills, there's a lot of solar, a lot of that is in florida. texas and gop held states. how do you think the tax credit issue, john, ultimately plays out? because it matters not only to your stock, but to a lot of other stocks which have been walloped lately. >> yeah, i think we got to take a scalpel, not a sledgehammer to the tax credits. we have to preserve the wind, solar battery storage tax credits and the ability to transfer those tax credits. because those tax credits we don't keep, we're obligated to flow those back to the customer, dollar for dollar. they reduce the utility bill for

all those customers, which is nationally increased household income by 12%. you take those away. that's like a 12% tax hike on americans. so critically important to get us to 2030 when the gas shows up and when the nuclear shows up in 2035 or later, we're going to need all of the above. this power demand is too big to isolate ourselves to one generation. >> and i'm. going to probably say something stupid because i, you know, trying to keep track of tariffs is almost impossible. i want to be clear. and so if i get this wrong, you'll forgive me. we're talking about new tariffs on canadian energy, imported gas and oil. but there have been tariffs on many solar panels built in china. correct. because it's been forced labor, indentured servitude in parts of china with the uyghur muslims building panels. so there have been tariffs on many big parts of solar. correct. how have those tariffs impacted your building plans? because i think

that's instructive on what may happen if we get the oil and gas tariffs. and still an if i think yeah. so first a stupid question. >> no not not at all. not at all. so first of all, our industry hasn't been buying panels directly from china since 2012 or 2013. so the supply chains have already been pivoted away. we source our our panels from around the world and are moving increasingly into the united states. this is becoming a us backed industry. and then with wind, 90% of the wind turbine is made right. in the us, only 10% is sourced from other places. batteries, our batteries storage components are going to be sourced entirely out of the united states going forward. so this is an industry, $1 trillion industry that's becoming a us industry that's reliant on us wind, us solar, and it's helping to create

significant capital investments in republican districts. we're going to spend $120 billion as a company over the next four years. that's our expectation, 80%, brian, 80% of that money is going to republican states. >> john ketcham, chair, ceo and president of nextera energy, the biggest renewables producer and gas producer in the united states. john, really appreciate it. and, kelly, you know, all these things that john just talked about are topics that we're going to have with the united states secretary of energy, chris wright. he will join us exclusively here in about 15 minutes, right at the top of the 2:00 show. we're going to talk about all these issues, because i know this and i don't know a lot about politics, kelly, but i do know whether you're on the red team or the blue team. everybody's on the green team. and i don't mean green energy, i mean money. so we're going to talk about all that coming up at the top of power lunch. >> and i like your point about the shift in tone at that conference. it's not, you know, the oil and gas event that it used to be anymore by a long

shot. brian. we'll see you then. thanks so much brian sullivan coming up. oracle lower ahead of its earnings after the bell. the shares were at a six month low believe it or not. and down more than 22% from its november record close. here's another check at the market. broadly, as we are right around session lows, in fact fresh ones, we'll call it the dow down 805. now the nasdaq down 4.25% for its worst day in three years. the ten year yield still hovering right around 421 422. we'll be right back after this. >> he found it then. >> of course i did. >> good boy. >> omaha steaks semiannual sale

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sale and make your dream office a reality. >> welcome back! the nasdaq having its worst day since 2022. the mag seven down, 5.5%. not helping sentiment on top of tariffs and a recession and everything else. a chinese startup unveiling a new ai agent that some are calling china's next deep tech moment. deirdre bosa has more. deirdre. hey, kelly. >> so let me tell you about manus. it was released last week by chinese company billed as a general ai agent. that turns your thoughts into actions, basically promising to outperform openai's deep research and have even broader capabilities. what followed the release was a lot of hype that has continued to today, many calling it, as kelly said, china's next deep sea moment. i've also heard the ai agent that we were promised. and so manus, if it does live up to this hype, could provide more reason for investors to buy the

china ai story and leave the us one behind. amid all these threats of a recession. now, just as deep sea introduced the china trade and hurt ours, showing that ai can be done on the cheap. manus could underpin that momentum in an already tough market. as we pointed out before, the china and us ai trades already there, going in opposite directions this year, as you can see from the chart on your screen. but with regards to manus. skepticism is creeping in. it's a flashy, debut, influencer driven buzz. invitation only access. by contrast, deep seek let its technology speak for itself. it was widely accessible and it was open source, giving developers the ability to look behind the curtain and confirm its credibility themselves. users on x, meanwhile, have said that they've encountered error messages endless loops while testing. it's also unclear how it was developed and whether it uses its own ai model. for now, though, kelly, you've got tariffs, huge ramps and capex. apple, siri delays, recession fears. that is all taking center stage. china making progress in

the background. and this is indeed a very ugly mix as the ai trade unwinds here. >> and a note to leave it on. deirdre, thanks and thanks for watching the exchange power lunch picks things up next. don't go anywhere. >> techcheck is sponsored by >> techcheck is sponsored by comcast business. comcast business doesn't just power businesses. we help turn them into... ...logistics-mastering... ...supply-chain-transforming... ...seamlessly-restocking... ...frictionless-paying... ...poke-bowl-ordering... ...cyber-securing... ...mobile-access granting... ...data managing... ...welcome-to-the-worlding... modern businesses. powering the engine of modern business. comcast business at ameriprise financial we know our clients are so much more than clients. they're go-getters and legacy-leavers, and what matters most to them matters most to us. it's no wonder we have a 4.9 out of five client satisfaction rating.

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