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and welcome to power lunch everybody. i am brian sullivan in houston at the big ceraweek energy conference. >> and i'm kelly evans at cnbc headquarters. and we are looking like brian said at another big market sell off 800 points for the dow. in fact, right now we're pretty much at session lows. the s&p is down 2.75%. the nasdaq down four and a quarter for its worst day since 2022. dow's negative on the year. the nasdaq is down 9%. and tesla is one of the biggest losers today. all of these kind of growthy high flying momentum stocks. this time it's down nearly 14%. this afternoon. it's wiped out its post-election rally and then some. it's down 10% since the election. and from its $488 high, the stock has lost more than half its value. that high was on december 18th. it's lost about 800 billion in market cap. meta is another big decliner. remember that 20 day win streak? all the gains over that streak are gone. the stock is lower now than it was on jan 17th when that winning streak began. and apple's also getting hit hard today. you heard deirdre talking about that a moment ago on pace

for its worst day in two and a half years, with a nearly 6% decline. apple delayed its siri ai upgrade, which was supposed to be a big driver of phone sales and utilization, and bitcoin is below 80,000, once again managing to hold on to some of its post-election bounce, at least for now. brian. >> all right. well, thank you very much, kai. listen, earlier today, energy secretary christopher, right, making some headlines here at the ceraweek conference after he slammed the biden administration's climate policies and said that renewable energy cannot replace fully natural gas. let's talk about that. tariffs and a lot more. we have the u.s. energy secretary, christopher, right here with us in a cnbc exclusive. secretary. right. thank you very much for joining us. a lot on the energy specific side to discuss. but a lot of people are blaming tariffs for part or all of this stock sell off. where do we stand with energy tariffs from canada and mexico right now. >> oh i. >> think we're. >> in. >> active negotiations right now. think of trump's last term.

he engaged on tariff dialog really with with with his eye on how to make. >> things better for americans. think of his words here. we want free. and fair. >> trade. >> reciprocal tariffs. >> and we want to stop the importation of fentanyl. >> that's just been an. >> absolute human crisis. >> so he's a businessman who. wants what's. >> best. >> for the american people. right now we're in the middle. >> of what's. >> going on the scrum. >> i think the end. >> result is going to be quite positive. >> well, i, i'm sure you have a lot of canadian friends, right? friends in mexico as well, a lot of them from both countries walking around. they all want to come up to me and i'm sure to you and say, we're not the problem. 4.5 million barrels a day of imported canadian crude oil are helping, not hurting. and they all wonder what's going on. is there any window or insight into into why this is all happening? look, there's a huge. >> concern about the trafficking of drugs. and i think. >> we've got. to work together. >> all three nations have. >> to work. >> diligently to reduce the. flow of drugs. this is thousands. tens of thousands. >> maybe 100,000 needless loss

of american lives. >> it's a problem in canada and. >> mexico as well. so that's. >> a huge issue. >> and i think it gets. >> underplayed sometime. >> and the other is just. >> to get free flow of goods both ways. there's a 250%. >> tariff on american dairy farmers to sell into canada. >> like that hurts americans. >> so let's. >> focus on what the hopefully. >> the end goal is, which. >> is free and fair. >> trade, reciprocal tariffs. >> is it possible that there are no tariffs? that's probably that. >> that's probably possible. >> i think. >> we could get to no tariffs or very low tariffs. >> but it's. >> got to be reciprocal. it's got to be the countries working together to better. >> better the. >> outcome for american citizens. >> if i look back at trump won 2016 to 2020, i see we added about 3 million barrels of oil production a day when the average price was, i think, in the mid 50s. so we added production at a time when oil prices were not sky high. yes, but that wasn't 13 million

barrels of oil a day like we are now. chris, is it possible to add more barrels at 66 bucks a barrel like we are right now? >> absolutely. >> look, the. >> easiest production. >> to grow in the united. >> states is. >> natural gas and natural gas liquids. i think you're. >> still seeing growth. >> there at a pretty good clip. >> we can. >> grow crude arrow barrels as well. >> key thing with president trump. >> is to lower the cost. >> for american. >> producers. >> lower the uncertainty. >> for american. >> producers so that. >> it's a better. climate to invest. >> that. lowers their cost of production. the break. >> even for american producers is going to be pushed down. >> and of course, they just start at the end. if folks if you're hearing in the background there's like somebody in a microphone right behind. of course, it started right during this interview, so apologies for that. that said, do you feel like there's a the tariffs and the i hate to harp on it. they're not helping that you're a ceo. how do we get more confidence i don't think tariffs help with that. >> yeah. >> well particularly uncertainty. >> around tariffs. >> but this. >> is you know we're 50.

>> days into. >> the administration. >> the accomplishments. >> in the first 50. >> days have been tremendous for. actions already. >> on. >> lng exports. we're getting rid of nonsense. >> across the board. >> but we're in the. >> middle of. >> negotiations for. >> where things are going to. >> go with tariffs. so that feels frightening. >> and. gripping right now. but this. >> time. we'll pass. >> deals will be made, we'll get certainty. >> and we'll have a. positive economic environment for americans going forward. >> you've talked about climate, and i know you just did a big talk with leaders in africa. yes. and you talked about something that a lot of our viewers really understand, which is how much while we have this beautiful energy situation in the united states, a lot of people cut firewood. they their their children suffer all these household diseases because they're breathing in all this noxious garbage, because they've got to produce wood, fire, whatever. how do we get the rest of the world? and i primarily mean europe, on board with the idea that the rest of the world just wants a little bit of what we have, which is the lights and

the heat's heat works. and we've actually brought down carbon emissions in the united states by increased use of gas. how do we get europe? they still seem like they're not on board with that thinking. yeah. >> they've gone a long. way down a road that i think was destined to lead to where they got, which is. >> high energy. >> prices, exporting. >> of their industries outside. >> germany. >> this industrial. >> powerhouse. >> the united. >> kingdom, the. >> birthplace of the american of the industrial revolution. so but i think you're. >> seeing uncertainty in europe. you're seeing citizens upset. you're seeing political upheava. >> making energy expensive and. >> unreliable is a surefire way to lead to political uncertainty. >> i hope we. >> see a turn in europe. i believe we will see a turn in europe, but i can certainly say we've seen a turn in the united states, just a return to common sense. >> well, we're connected, though i think the us and europe, because, you know, my producer here, harriet and i, we've been we've stood on lng ships in rotterdam saying, this is an american cargo that's coming from calcasieu pass in louisiana

to brunsbüttel, germany. here's what people don't realize. russian gas exports, not pipeline gas. that's the nord stream is blown up, but lng exports are at record highs. europe right now is buying record amounts of natural gas from vladimir putin. doesn't sound true, but it is. how do we stop that? because i think and i hope that president trump, like he said this weekend, wants to slow down vladimir putin's energy sales to the world, not accelerate them. >> absolutely. there actually are. >> still pipeline gas imports from. russia into europe to the southern pipeline still remains. so yeah, i think europe saw that huge mistake to bet so much of their energy future on a very uncertain supplier that's become a significant adversary. i think the answer to a lot of this is make sure your energy suppliers are your allies, and they're strong and they're reliable. so

the rapid ramp up of us lng exports into europe have taken about half of the gas that was displaced from russia, from the united states, norway has ramped up and some other sources as well. but that's what the united states is all about. we're going to grow our energy production, grow our lng exports grow, our trade grow, our connection with europe. i think this is a stable, secure supply, not only economically good for the us and europe, but it's good for world peace. it's good for stability. that's a lot of this administration grow american energy exports to our allies. >> that's critical. and we talked about, you know, the way they say, well, if you want to starve russia of money for war, you cut off their energy exports. people have said, you know, russia is a is a gas station with with nuclear bombs. so what do we do about that? what do how do we approach as the energy secretary? how do you approach russia? russia sanctions. they're under sanction now, but they're still selling nine. they're still

selling a lot of oil around the world because they're using these sort of unregistered ships and they do all this, this stuff. what's the proper level of sanctions on russia and iran and maybe a little bit on venezuela that would not destroy europe, but would also benefit the united states of america? yeah. >> of course, that ultimate call is up to the president. i'm highly confident in his leadership. of course, i'm in dialog with him about the trade offs here. but you mentioned iran as well. the president last go round, put tight sanctions on iran, enforced those sanctions, drove down iranian oil exports to a very insignificant amount. it starved that regime's ability to fund terrorist organization and foment trouble. the biden administration did not remove those sanctions. they just stopped enforcing them. that flooded iran with cash. and we've seen what's happened with the houthis, with hezbollah, with hamas. you know, that's you don't want your your allies wealthy and able to evade

sanctions and make trouble with it. so president trump is a strong and bold leader, and he will make the decisions. the screws are being turned on iran again, venezuela this this is leverage he can apply to drive towards peace and towards better outcomes for the united states. >> yeah, we just saw the cancellation or pending cancellation of export supplies from venezuela. chevron is probably not super happy about that. we're going to see where that goes. so do you think the us then mr. secretary can make up for if we really hit iran and russia? well, okay. because to your point, iran's foreign currency reserves crashed and now they've come back as their sales of oil have gone back up around the world. if we really push them and punish them with sanctions, does the us or other allies have the ability to make up that gap in production? we know the saudis can do it. do you think they will do it? iran's a member of opec.

>> absolutely. with president trump's leadership, america is back in business. people trust the united states. people want to ally with the united states. you've seen opec bringing oil back on market right now. if there's any price signal at all that the world needs more oil, u.s. producers can grow their production as well. but as you said, not just united states producer, but our allies, producers. absolutely. the united states can put pressure on all three of those countries, venezuela, iran and russia, and keep oil prices under control. that's something we couldn't have done years ago, but it's absolutely something we can do today. >> exclusive interview with the secretary of energy christopher. right. secretary rice, it's a real pleasure to see you in houston at the conference and appreciate you sitting down with us here at cnbc. thank you very much. >> thank you brian. common sense and pro energy is back in style. >> there's a lot of energy back at this energy conference i can assure you of that. kelly. we'll see you in about 15 minutes gentlemen. >> thank you both. really appreciate it. after the break, we've seen big swings in both directions over the past week in markets. remember friday's attempted rally. the volatility

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know for months i talked about the s&p going to 6000. nasdaq 100 going to 22,022 five. the dow going to 45,000. that seemed like a pipe dream. in early 2024 mid 2024 i talked about this on cnbc on april 10th, almost a year ago. now we've hit those targets. and so the key factor here is that the major long term trend driving this rally, the rally off the march 2020 lows and the height of the pandemic, when it became clear that we were going to get historic monetary and fiscal stimulus. that rally is tapped out. you know, people come on these shows all the time and say they're long term investors. you want to stop an interview in its tracks, ask them, what's the long term? is it three years, five years, ten years? is it going back to 1929, 99 out of 100 people have no idea what to say. the long term trend driving this move started in early 2020, in the height of the pandemic, when it became clear we were going to see historic monetary fiscal

stimulus that is basically tapped out across the indices. i sent you the charts, the bar charts, the volume over price charts. and so that's the key factor that really got us to turn bearish. the second thing that, you know, we didn't anticipate until the last several months is the trump administration. every policy they have, whether it's tariffs, mass deportations, extension of the 2017 tax cuts, they all either hurt the economy, stoke inflation or both. so you have the major long term trend topping out, five year trend topping out. and you have a catastrophically incompetent administration in the white house. and the bottom line of all this is that we've only started this. we'll be lucky if we get out of this top to bottom, only down 20%. i think eventually across the indices, dow, s&p, nasdaq 100 will end up being down 25% before it's all done. >> before i bring victoria in to see if she agrees or disagrees, what have you. bill, if i'm truly a long term investor, if i have 20 years, do i care?

>> yeah. >> you care. kelly. i mean, our clients, we advise some of the biggest hedge funds, mutual fund complexes, banks, pension funds all over the world. so for our clients, it's enormous and very important to be able to avoid this. and i think even for the average person watching the show, i think we had great years in 2023, 2024. it's not anything very esoteric. take some money off the table. you'll be able to deploy that capital at much better levels later in the year. but right now, trump is taking us not only into a trade war, but into a full blown recession. and i think the mistake people are making is that we've been spoiled with these ve bottoms. we go down 10 to 12% and go right back up. this is not going to be like that. we are going to be in for a much deeper drawdown. and i think something that's going to last a significant amount of time. >> yeah. again, that's ahead of where, you know, most of the sort of the economists you talk

to, even the bearish ones are kind of in the camp of, okay, we only grow 1.5%. i haven't seen any recession calls yet. but to your point, it's the market's job to try to discount that ahead of time victoria. jump in here. i'm not quite that bearish. i think what's been done can also be undone very quickly. >> and so. >> markets have been. >> repricing in a very. >> friendly business friendly. >> trump administration into. >> no this. >> is. >> a trump administration trying. >> to fix, you know, very long term problems that that may take some undoing. and any time that that you have all of this commentary about oh the economy might be rolling over, that we have all these dislocations or a little bit of turbulence. you know, all of that means they are expecting things to get worse before it gets better. so i fully, fully agree this could be. worse before it gets better. but it's happening so fast. it's washing out so fast. historically, when it's this hard and fast on the down, it does snap back in a v-shape recovery. i do disagree a little bit on that, a little bit in nardini's camp he was talking about, hey, this this is going down so fast it likely could come back up. but right now there is absolutely downside risk because everything is bad

news and that is trickling through. and we're seeing it in consumer sentiment. we're seeing it in atlanta gdp. now we're seeing it in earnings. revisions are moving lower. and to me that's the most concerning thing. what does this do to profit growth. and if we really do see earnings revised lower and no longer hitting profit growth, then that becomes a little bit more concerning to me that, hey, this is serious. this isn't just a sentiment sell off. this is actually truly companies will be making less profits next year or less profits in the back half of the year than they are making now. for now, that remains intact and yet to be seen. the effect on earnings. but we are having to rapidly reprice like this market is that tariffs are here to stay, and this administration may be sucking back public spending, which the federal government is about 23% of gdp is federal government spending. but again the house and senate aren't really cutting that much from the budget. and so we have to go around and say what's actually going to be implemented. where do tariffs land? for me right now it is a little bit of a harsh knee jerk. and there's not everything's broken. if you're

paying defense, if you have your dividend stocks, you're looking around the market. beyond the magnificent seven meltdown. it isn't horrible. it feels horrible because you've got stocks like tesla that led us up that are absolutely cratering right now. but the broader market, while it's down, is not necessarily this complete washout. >> and victoria will get a few of your picks later on. but, bill, before you have to go, we had some guests last hour say they're nibbling one might be nibbling at nvidia says it's down to a 20 times multiple. google is trading at 16 times earnings. others are looking at the mag seven and kind of broadly, seeing a case to be made for putting them on the shopping list. is there anything like that that you would be doing now? >> no, i wouldn't when again, the point that everybody is missing is that the major trend off the march 2020 lows is done. it's over. and typically what happens after these long term trends finish? you mean revert to fair value? what's fair value on the s&p 500 after march 2020 lows. it's 4500 to 4000. what what is fair value in the nasdaq 100 after march 2020 lows. it's

15,000 and the dow was 34,000 33,000 in there. even from these levels kelly you could easily see another 20% downside. so this is just really beginning to go out there and start trying to catch a falling knife that has all the risk reward characteristics of somebody who wanders out into a minefield to pick up a quarter a little bit, to gain an awful lot, to lose. i don't underestimate how much more we could have on the downside. and again, look at what's happened to personal consumption, consumer confidence. it's fallen through the floor. nobody in this economy is going to spend a dollar unless they absolutely have to. here's my people. >> i take your point and appreciate the very clear warning. let's let's say that i had a friend who got out of the market a couple of years ago because they thought at that point it might be going significantly lower, and then it only went higher and higher and higher and higher. you know, there's a lot of people out there who have said, you know,

i've tried that before and i'm never sure when is exactly going to be the time and exactly how it's going to play out. you know. >> let me, let me in terms of answering your question, what do you do right now? i'll take i'll do the same thing. i'm doing the same thing with my own money that warren buffett's doing the end of 2024, 334.2 billion in cash and cash equivalents, a record for berkshire. all right. so if you ask me what to do right now, you can put your money in the front of the us yield curve, make over 4% beat inflationust stay out of this chaos. let it, let it let it play itself out. and there'll be plenty of times, kelly, to get back in the market later in the year. a much better levels. but you can you have the, the luxury right now of being able to get over 4% and without any risk and then watch this whole thing play out. because we're in the early stages of this right now, there's no reason to jump in and try to be a hero here.

>> it's called t-bill and chill. >> and exactly. >> i remember exactly kurt and i talking about this a couple years ago, and here we are again. i really appreciate both of you joining us, bill strazzullo victoria green, as i mentioned, victoria, we'll see you for three stock lunch. up next. top ceos are visiting president trump. and what a day for it. they're supposed to be talking tariffs i chips and more. but tech stocks are taking a licking today the nasdaq down 4% tesla strategy and applovin are leading the declines. cathie wood's ark is down 8% 30% off its highs. its biggest holdings are tesla, roku and coinbase. we'll have more at the white house tech summit next.

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the nasdaq down about 4% for its worst day in almost three years. it's down 10% this year. and tech ceos are at the white house for a meeting with president trump. for more on what both sides are hoping to get out of this meeting, let's bring in eamon javers at the white house and seema mody at the new york stock exchange. eamon, let's start with you. >> yeah. look, i mean, the white house says that this is an open ended meeting. so no particular agenda on the table from their perspective. we know the ceos of hp, dell, intel, qualcomm are all expected here. we've got some arrival video a short time ago of some of those executives coming into the building. what we don't know is whether we'll. >> see any. >> of this on camera. kelly. we're told this is closed press as of right now, but it's always a game time decision with president trump whether he wants to open these meetings up or not. so it could be that cameras get called in. this meeting was supposed to start about a half an hour ago, but we're told it's running a little bit behind. so at this point, tbd whether we'll see anything on camera and tbd whether we'll get any results from the meeting to read out to

you after the fact. kelly. >> all right. in the meantime, seema, what do you think the tech world thinks or hopes or or is looking to get out of this? >> well, kelly, from the conversations we've had with industry leaders and others who are involved in the organizing of this meeting, tariffs are going to be top of mind, especially given the recent sell off we've seen in the market that have been tied to the uncertainty around tariffs. the leaders that eamon just highlighted who have attended this meeting all have something to lose if tariffs continue to escalate. the pc manufacturers like hp, we saw hp ceo enrique alvarez joined the meeting today at the white house, including michael dell, the founder of dell. both companies have exposure to china kelly, but recently have been making efforts to diversify into mexico. so now with tariffs on the table from mexico, that complicates their supply chain strategy. i was told by one ceo that they're looking for reassurances from president trump and other government officials as to where they could be safer if tariffs continue to escalate, as in which countries are going to be more insulated than others in the coming

months, because that plays a role, right in the types of countries they're going to be investing in. now, beyond the pc manufacturers, this co-ceo's of intel also attending this meeting at the white house, it comes just days after taiwan semiconductor made that massive pledge to invest billions of dollars here in the u.s, and that has raised questions about intel's ability to continue its efforts to build a foundry here in the u.s. it delayed that plant in ohio. and there are new questions about how this administration, kelly, is going to revamp the chips act after president trump called it a, quote, waste of money. it has been a source of frustration. the chips act. yes, strategically important to the u.s, but the implementation no real product coming out of it. billions of dollars going to intel, the company announcing layoffs last year. people want to see how this act can be changed. >> yeah, absolutely. seema thanks. and eamon, let us know if you hear any reaction from the white house. this market sell off. the dow is down 900 points a second ago. >> yeah. you know, i've been

talking to folks inside the building about that and they're not ready to comment on it just yet. you saw the president yesterday, kelly, come out and say on fox news that he's not watching the stock market, that he's trying to build a strong america with these tariffs. and that means focusing on working class people and rebuilding american jobs in the heartland to this white house. they're not as focused on using the stock market as a mark to market metric of their success as they were in the first term. we'll see how much pain they're willing to endure here before changing course. but so far, the signals are this president is willing to accept some stock market pain in order to achieve his goals. >> exactly. yeah. they say they're not watching it, but we'll see how much. >> they're watching. >> it for. how much. right. exactly. for how much longer. eamon thanks. appreciate it as well. seema mody and eamon javers brian. >> yeah. well he may not be known for his stock market calls, but he is one of the world's most famous. we'll call them bankers and economists. that is peter orszag. he is the chairman and ceo of lazard. we're going to ask him a very direct question after the break.

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>> all right. welcome back to power lunch. i'm brian sullivan ceraweek conference in houston, texas. normally we interview oil and gas and energy executives. and we are by the way, today and tomorrow. but we're also very pleased now to be joined by one of the most famous economists and ceos, ceos in america, if not the world, that is. ledgard chair and ceo peter orszag, also omb director under president obama, recently coauthoring an opinion piece in the council on foreign relations foreign relations magazine about energy edition. peter, thank you. we're going to get to all that in just a second. but listen, your finance guy, two markets are getting destroyed. can i just get your take on what's happening with the stock market before we dive in? yeah, i think this. >> is pretty simple, which is the underlying fundamentals of the economy are really strong. there is a unfortunately a huge amount of uncertainty right now that is affecting boardrooms and investors. and i think people could understand tension with china. it's canada, mexico and europe that is confusing. so the

good news is this is a choice. if those issues were resolved in the near term, that underlying fundamentals are really strong. i think we'll get back to a much more auspicious market and economy if this level of uncertainty persists. it's really damaging to confidence and therefore to business, investment, m&a, etc. >> i know you're not a market maker in palantir or any of those app love it or any of those stocks, but i'm sure you, you and your team watch them. how much of this selloff do you think is related to tariffs and uncertainty? >> i think a lot of it. it's and again it's specific about what, you know tariffs in areas that people hadn't anticipated on off. so a big part of it is uncertainty. but there's also a part look a 25% tariff on canada and mexico would have significant economic effects inside the united states. so it's partly the uncertainty and it's partly what are we really doing that? >> well, we interviewed the secretary of energy earlier and he said, listen, this is all

part of a negotiating tactic. and kind of echoing your point, peter, which is this can be turned off as easily as it was turned on. do you find some some hope in that, that once there is a solution. >> this is this is the hope here or this is this is why this is actually quite promising. if it's resolved in the in the near term, which is again, it would be much more challenging if this were reflecting some big imbalance in the economy or some fundamental challenge for u.s. productivity. that's not the case. instead, this has been, you know, created over the past couple of months. it could be uncreated, and then we could be back to the races. >> so if the tariffs are ultimately levied, we get a 25% tariff on canadian energy coming into the united states, or 15% whatever the number is. will that have a deleterious effect on the american economy. >> at those levels? i think there is a deleterious effect, but that's being exacerbated right now by uncertainty about whether or not it's even if is that what's going to happen? so there's one thing we don't know

what to plan for. and then the second thing is, once you know what to plan for, yes, tariffs that that kind of level, that would not be good for u.s. economic performance. >> well, i appreciate you veering off because my first question was going to be very simple one, which is why is peter orszag here. this is an energy conference. peter, you're the ceo of lazard. >> so first of all, we have a huge presence here in houston. m&a and energy is a big deal. we have a stellar team. that's point one. point two is energy is foundational and fundamental to economic growth. all the things we were just talking about the economy inflation those are driven by energy, let alone the future of ai. and then third, we have long been a thought leader in this field. we've published the levelized cost of energy studies that have gotten a lot of attention. and as you mentioned, i just coauthored a piece with dan yergin in foreign affairs, continuing that tradition of trying to provide thought leadership on energy because it's such an important sector. >> yeah, i mean, this your colleague, board member ray mcguire, a couple of years ago gave me this amazing piece on critical minerals and materials.

you talk about this ae this levelized cost of energy. we're tv. we've got like two minutes. so in a, in a brief way that most of our audience that are not ceos or energy executives could understand what do we get wrong? not we the media, but what what is the investment community often get wrong about energy when we're looking at all in costs? >> well, this is this is why the heart of this article was, which is that there was, i'll call it, the myth of the immaculate transition, that it would be really easy and costless to move to renewable energy. the cost of renewable energy have come down a lot, but we are still relying a lot on fossil fuels. and that actually transitioning. so far it's been an energy addition, not transition, actually getting rid of fossil fuels. while it may be necessary to protect the planet, it's going to be very expensive and it's going to take a lot of time. >> you know, we're talking about these critical or some would call them rare earths that that term has been used incorrectly. critical minerals, materials, metals in ukraine right now i've

got some some interesting news for you. as i'm sure you know, the united states used to be the world's leading producer of lithium. yeah, there's a mine in western north carolina. we used to do all this stuff. ken lazard be a part of the financing to help make that happen again? >> yeah, but a lot of it also, this is the other big thing about the transition. a lot of the necessary electrification requires many of these minerals and that requires a lot of local mining. so a good example here in the united states, thacker pass in nevada, huge lithium project. it's the subject of a lot of local political debate. same thing in serbia. massive new lithium project there, subject of tons of local political. >> how do we solve that though? because people say, well, look, we have this stuff here, but yet you can't get the permits. it's not environmental. we don't want a mine. it goes against climate. so guess what? we don't do it here. but then they do it in congo or ukraine or wherever where there's not as many controls or rules. >> i think the fact of the matter is, if we want cleaner

energy, we're going to have to streamline a lot of the permitting and the regulatory environment, not only on the critical and rare earths, but also on new, new generating facilities. et cetera. that's all going to have to be part of the package. and that's the point. that's the that is the discussion that needs to happen as opposed to this is going to be free and easy. >> well, we're going to wrap it up there, peter. but i think the discussion is happening. i know the last four years was kind of a different discussion about it's all transition. it's going to be free or whatever it might be now. it maybe swung too far the other side. the answer with everything is probably somewhere in. the will. we shall find out. peter orszag, chair and ceo of lazard. thank you for your time. >> good to be with you. >> i really do appreciate that. thank you. kelly, back. >> to you. great interview. great discussion. thank you both. really appreciate it. let's get to bertha coombs for the cnbc news update. >> bertha kelly. secretary of state marco rubio is in saudi arabia right now ahead. >> of. >> talks with ukraine. >> tomorrow. on ending the war with russia. rubio said he's optimistic about the talks but cautioned there are more details

that. need to. >> be. >> worked out, particularly on the mineral rights deal between washington. >> and kyiv. it's the first meeting between. >> the two. >> countries since. >> president trump and ukrainian president. zelensky's charged oval office appearance. the los angeles district attorney. >> withdrew a recommendation today to. >> reduce the life without parole. sentences of lyle and erik menendez. he said he can't support the motion from his predecessor because the brothers lied about. >> why they killed their. >> parents in 1989. >> they are also seeking. clemency from california. >> governor gavin. >> newsom and. >> elon musk. confirmed in. a post. >> that a massive. >> cyber attack has caused. outages on. the platform. >> today on. >> twitter. >> he wrote that the attack was done with a lot of. resources and suggested a coordinated group or country is involved. thousands of people on x. have reported issues accessing.

>> the site today. i still. >> call it twitter. >> formerly known as twitter. >> it's x. >> i didn't have that issue, but chatgpt was slow for me and i was wondering if that was for any maybe a lot of people using it. i don't know. bertha, thanks very much for now. we appreciate it. bertha coombs as we head to break. goldman is on pace for its worst day in a couple of years, down almost 6% as financials in general have gotten hit on economic concerns. we're also seeing big declines in some of the retail names. we'll have more on that next. >> crypto watch is sponsored by crypto.com. and crypto.com is america's premier crypto america's premier crypto platform. comcast business doesn't just power businesses.

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throughout the morning and into the afternoon afternoon hours. let's talk a little bit about strategy. now. what should you do on a day like this. we welcome back cnbc contributor victoria greene here to walk us through some trades of victoria. some three stock lunch. but we're not even in a good enough mood to call it that. let's start with meta, which already erased that 20 day win streak. the stock is lower now than it was before that streak began. it's below 600. is this a chance to pick it up? >> here it is. to me this is a screaming buy i love meta, they're one of the only companies that is actually implementing ai to drive higher revenues. and we saw that through their ad pricing growth 14% last quarter, meaning they're able to charge more to advertisers because their targeted ads are being much more effective and selling more goods. and so i look at this company saying they are utilizing ai to drive higher revenues. let's say they come in a little light on capex. that could be a good thing, where suddenly they have higher earnings than expected. so for me, it's a pickup. there's a ton of good supports here still in an uptrend. i think this stock could pop back up. obviously

you're fighting horrible sentiment, horrible sentiment against the mag seven specifically. but if you look at what did meta do wrong? absolutely nothing. and the revenue should be a little bit more insulated than some of the other mag seven companies, because they're such a diversified between whatsapp, instagram and facebook. they have all these different platforms and all the different parts of the world. i look at this and say, i would buy it. absolutely. >> so you are nibbling on some of these areas that have kind of been whipsawed central areas of the market. what about coinbase now that got dragged down? >> yeah, that's a. >> yeah i was just going to say bitcoin's below 80 k. but coinbase is down like 15% today on this move. it's now down 26% year to date. missed the cut to be added to the s&p. what do you think. i know it was a bad a bad day for them today. to me it's still not a buy here. i'd honestly just sell it because it's so highly correlated with bitcoin. and bitcoin is in a freefall right now. i think you could honestly see a retest to the 60s in bitcoin. the r square between coinbase and bitcoin is like above 0.9. i look at this and just say i think it's a bad

time to be buying this type of risk. unfortunately for them, i think they may be retesting their one year lows around 150, especially if crypto continues to roll over. also, i'm not sure about their moat. as more and more companies push in, crypto gets more regulated. so much is happening on the derivatives and futures markets that i'm not sure exactly how their revenue growth is going to play out over the next 2 to 5 years, because we may actually see other companies start to pick up trading. as crypto is more widely adopted across different platforms. so for me, i know it hurts today. i hate selling on a down day, but this is one of those. just because it's low doesn't mean it can't go lower. >> all right. so let me ask you about williams-sonoma, because retail has been another area. i mean, williams-sonoma initially popped on its inclusion to the s&p. but of course, on a day like this, it's turned negative. that said, it's hardly one of the worst offenders in the retail space. so i'm curious what you would do with that one. or i mean, there are stocks like abercrombie. maybe that's a fashion story. there's i mean, there's lots of different names. and honestly, williams-sonoma is only down 2% right now. >> i like williams-sonoma. it's a buy for me going into earnings

next week, because i think that they've seen the worst of the restoration, not restoration hardware. i'm sorry, the west elm brand. right. the big ticket items. i think the worst is behind them on that their sales is better. we expect really brisk holiday sales. and you look at it, they're driven a lot by pottery barn. now. you look at their revenue segments as pottery barn and pottery barn kids, and i think that's so much more defensible. expecting robust holiday sales, expecting a decent outlook. i'm not sure the big tickets are going to pick up quite as much as we wanted to see. but i look at the stock, it's coming off a tough run. i know it's not quite as cheap as it was, you know, q3 last year, but if you're getting exposure to retail, i don't hate the stock. i mean, it's hard to look around and say what won't go down on a day like today. i think there's something like maybe two dow stocks that are up or something ridiculous. so yeah, it's a wash out day. but for me, williams-sonoma reporting next week could certainly see a little bit of upside if they have some good guidance. >> all right victoria for now thanks. appreciate it today. all your thoughts. victoria green. remember you can always recap three stock lunch on using our qr code on the website. or head over to cnbc.com for more as we

head to break with the dow down 952 points. now, reddit is also having its worst day ever. it's down almost 16% despite its big run up last year. nasdaq down 4%. we'll have more right after this. >> good morning. >> with dulcolax. >> good good good morning. yeah. >> frank dulcolax chewy fruit bites for fast and gentle constipation relief in as little as 30 minute do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. call coventry direct to learn more. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. our friend sold their policy to help pay their medical bills, and that got me thinking. maybe selling our policy could help with our retirement. i'm skeptical, so i did some research and called coventry direct. they explained life insurance is a valuable asset that can be sold. we learned we

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sign and make official. get started at trust and wilcom and make it count. >> welcome back. dow is now down more than 1000 points. this is session lows. it's about a 2.4% drop. the nasdaq is down 4.5%. so that's where some of the most intense selling pressure is. we're also seeing some sell offs in the consumer and retail space, especially after cnbc's nrf monitor this morning showed another soft spending patch in february, following on january. and that's adding to these broader slowdown concerns. courtney reagan has more for us caught. >> hi kelly. so consumer. >> discretionary stocks it makes sense. >> for. >> all the reasons you said. under pressure again today. >> we're worrying about. >> consumers ability. >> to spend. >> as of course other costs rise. >> and last. >> week many retailers did report the results including best buy and target. those were some of the names most notably, that expressed concern the executives about consumers. willingness to. spend on more discretionary items as. costs rise on newly tariffed. >> goods. >> and that would particularly impact both target and best buy. because of their sourcing. now,

more retailers will likely have sort of a similar chorus this week when they report. couple that with numerous surveys indicating consumers are worried about rising prices due to tariffs. and then you're getting this. retail stocks stumble. so specialty names are among the worst today. victoria's secret abercrombie down big footlocker rh gap. >> now you might. >> remember that gap reported a really strong quarter last week that sent shares rising rising rising. that's now a distant memory. you can see shares down 2.5%, which is not bad in comparison to others, with footlocker down 9% and rh down more than 13%. but still, it's notable because the fundamentals at least appeared intact for gap. it doesn't matter, though, those shares in general just selling off with the rest of the group. wedbush did, however, say that it thought that the sell off is overdone, at least in rh. also calling that out for shares of chewy as well. kelly, back over to you. >> all right courtney thank you very much. again some big declines there as we track the sell off more broadly. the dow is down 1056 points. nasdaq 4.5%. we'll be right back.

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4.5% more than that for the nasdaq. brian will have a lot more coverage from ceraweek tomorrow and we look forward to that. i appreciate his patience. some great interviews this hour. closing bell starts right now. >> all right. >> kelly, thanks so much. welcome to closing bell. i'm scott wapner live from post nine here at the new york stock exchange. a very busy day. this make or break hour begins with sinking stocks again as the markets remain firmly on edge here. investor optimism so strong in the fall, suddenly shrinking as fears of a recession continue to rise. take a look at the scorecard here. with 60 to go in regulation on this monday. ugly from the outset. today, technology stocks are by far the biggest drag on these markets. tesla is tumbling again. nvidia sliding. apple two almost nowhere to hide here. bitcoin below 80 k for the first time since november. so it is decidedly risk off. elsewhere, the names most sensitive to the economy are