>> and maybe we maybe we change mag seven to fab five because with tesla slide and maybe with apple they start cutting. >> steve thank you steve kovach. >> like andre like your buddy may be soon. >> we'll see. by the way the analysts at morgan stanley analyst behind that call coming up on closing bell. and speaking of which. >> which is next? >> yeah. we'll see you tomorrow. >> all right. >> guys, thanks so much. welcome to closing bell. i'm scott wapner live from post nine here at the new york stock exchange. this make or break hour begins with the tech bounce today. whether the worst of the selling is now behind that sector. we'll have more on that in just a moment. in the meantime, we'll show you the scorecard here. with 60 to go in regulation, nasdaq has been leading the day all day. nvidia getting a much needed boost today. several of the other mega-cap stocks moving higher as well including tesla yet again but getting hammered as you know lately. but 8% in the green today. apple though it is lower as you just heard. the star analyst eric woodring of morgan stanley cutting his price

target on that stock today. and he will join us in just a little bit to tell us exactly why he did that. it's also a big day for momentum names, which have been hit really hard in this sell off lately palantir, up, love and vista vertiv they're all higher in the session. we'll watch them closely. of course, does take us to our talk of the tape weather. an opportunity to buy stocks is now upon us, or at least getting a little closer. let's ask chris harvey. he is the head of equity strategy at wells fargo securities with me here at post nine. welcome back. >> good to be back. >> all right. the headline here for me anyway, is that you haven't touched your target on the s&p. no we haven't. that was the highest at 7007. that's right. why do you still have the conviction that we can get there? we have more or less. >> ten months left in the year. >> by the end of the year. >> we can see. >> the fed. >> cutting rates a. >> number of. >> times, inflation. >> coming. >> down being through. >> with. >> tariffs on canada and mexico. having a recovery and m&a activity starting. >> to pick back up.

>> so just because. >> things are difficult. >> right here, right now doesn't mean we're not going to have a good second half of the year. >> so you're trying to see the forest through the trees. >> we are. >> we are. >> the trees though might get cut down in in the near term it feels like. how do you feel about more tactically, more near term than looking out towards the end of the year. >> so it's a little ugly as you've seen. what we think in the. >> short term is most. >> of the de-risking. >> we think is done right. one of the one of the key indicators for us is that small caps outperformed earlier this week. that's a good sign. you've had a significant amount of de-risking. conversations have indicated a lot of pain, a lot of de-risking. and so we think there's a bounce, but it's going to be very difficult for the next couple of months, probably until middle of the summertime. >> and what. >> we want you to do is we want you to stay in the game because you don't know when there's going to be. surprise. >> hedge with. >> some sort of low volatility and look for your good risk rewards. but it's not time for cash and canned goods. >> this was like a perfect storm

in terms of how concentrated a whole bunch of different cohorts got. multi straps. we talked about that long. only hedge funds. we've talked about that. and then of course retail. >> yep. >> all of it unwinding at the very same time which you think led to a fair amount of the volatility. is that fair. >> everyone was crowded into momentum trades. and that you know you did see that unwind on the hedge fund side. on the retail side to a certain degree the long only side. but the. >> good thing. >> is those are not the only games in town. europe is doing better. value is doing better. low vol is doing better. the s&p equal weight is doing better. so you now have options. but yes, we had a massive repricing of the momentum trade. we had a massive unwind in de-risking. and there was a lot of demands for liquidity which pushed things down below levels that they probably should have will get some relief now. but that doesn't mean we're out of the fa. you're right. we're not out of the forest. we're not in the clear. but you can trade these

things. and if your portfolio wasn't doing very well, take the strength to reposition to some degree. >> well, how do you view the mega-cap stocks now that they've had this reset, which by the way, now trade at the lowest valuation premium to the rest of the s&p in many years. so our answer is. >> not bad. we've been saying that the technicals for a lot of the mega-caps look attractive. we still love the communication space. meta is within the communications space. one of the names that one of the groups that we like, and it includes meta. and so what we would say is some of the pain that you've seen, some of the unwind i think was unjust. and these things can bounce in the short term. >> what happens if we actually have a recession? i mean, we were we were 22.5 times, right? which many people i think you probably included at that time said, you know what, little rich. yeah. not necessarily justified, but earnings look pretty good. so maybe it's going to all work out. right now we've come down to maybe a 20 multiple

in the upset that we've had. but what what actually happens if we do have a recession. so we have to talk. >> about what. >> kind of recession that is. right. people think about recession. they think great financial crisis. they think early 2000 where balance sheets were upside down and backwards. that's not the case in the financial space. that's not the case on the consumer. it will be difficult. you'll see stocks down another 20%. but i do think it's more of a buying opportunity. you're going to see the fed step in. and ultimately we don't think we're going to be dealing with all the tariff and tariff noise in 12 months from now. and so yes, it will be difficult. and that's why we say now is not the time to be a hero. a good portion of the portfolio should be in low vol or risk aversion, right? you should look for those good risk rewards. and yes, recession is there, but i think it's still for now, a long shot. >> it's hard to get people to feel better. i think about the market picture as long as we're suggesting pain before gain, like the administration itself. right, has been talking about. i

asked professor jeremy siegel, the wharton school, yesterday when he was on the program, you know what all this means to where the s&p can go in the near term? i want you to listen to what he said. we'll talk about it on the other side, professor siegel. absolutely. >> i mean, it could. >> definitely go lower. i mean. >> barely now 10%. that's just a bare touch of a correction. >> and given, you know. >> 20, 20% gains in each of the last two years, you know, this is not a lot down. >> i mean, if the tariff and trade war sort of escalates further, that's the risk of what he told you. >> yeah. the risk is that. >> the trade war gets worse. here's here's the real risk is what the administration is saying is, hey, we have leverage in this situation. it hurts you more than it hurts us. but now if you have the equity market starting to go from correction to bear market, it begins to boomerang back on us. and so now what we have is we have a standoff where no one's willing to move, no one's willing to

negotiate. there's a lot of spike going on. and we have a problem, no doubt about that. i don't think we're going to get there. but yes, that's a problem. the other thing we should talk about is we're coming off of highs. we're not coming off of lows. and so the market you're right, has been pretty. this right now is a healthy repricing. the issue is the uncertainty is not going away anytime soon. and you're going to have to deal with it. and what we've told clients is again use any sort of strength to reposition, take some money off the table or take some volatility out. if you're really worried, then come back in the summertime and go on vacation until then. >> i mean, speaking of the uncertainty, we we've had more tariff related headlines today. and on that note, let's go to the white house and bring in eamon javers for the very latest on all that seems to be happening down in dc eamon, what is the latest scott. >> the latest is the president is signaling he's pushing forward on his tariff agenda. we just saw him in the oval office a short time ago. he was meeting with the irish taoiseach or prime minister for saint patrick's day event. but he took

some questions from reporters, including whether or not he would respond in retaliation to the eu's retaliation for american tariffs. >> here. >> what he had to say. >> will you respond. >> to their retaliation? oh, of. >> course i want. >> to respond. >> you will retaliate because. >> our country didn't respond. look, the eu was set up in order. to take advantage of the united states. >> including ireland. >> is ireland taking advantage. >> of the us? >> of course. >> they. are canada. >> so we saw. >> that eu. >> retaliation, putting tariffs on things like. >> beef and bourbon. >> and motorcycles. now the president. saying he's prepared to retaliate for that. all of that raises the question of when does this cycle of tariff and counter tariff and counter tariff. and what. >> is the. >> end of this escalation in this trade war? that's tbd. what they'll tell you here at the white house, though, is that they're confident that the us is the biggest market in the world. these other markets need access to the us market. and president trump himself is has been

successful in negotiations. at intimidating people and getting them to back down. they're banking on that for the us ability here to reset tariff levels in the us's favor. and that's the that's. >> the plan. >> here going forward. scott, one more thing i want to flag for you in terms of the palace intrigue here, there was a story in politico yesterday about howard lutnick, the commerce secretary, suggesting that some people around the white house campus were starting to get. annoyed and maybe starting to point the finger at lutnick as the person to blame for some of the chaotic rollout of the president's tariff agenda. that's the kind of interesting thing you need to watch in a trump white house, because those when those leaks start about a cabinet member or anybody else on president trump's team, we've seen in the past that that's not a good sign for that person. i talked to folks inside the white house press office about that story today. they say the president has full faith in howard lutnick and emphasized that all the administration officials who are mentioned in that story have since gone on the record to say that they support him, but that just put a

pin in that one, scott, because it's worth watching. >> we will. we certainly will. eamon, appreciate you as always. it's eamon javers the white house. back to chris harvey here. i mean you alluded to it earlier i think a little bit the idea of a trump put. right. yeah. you said if it starts to get bad it reflects poorly on us. sort of the their way of thinking. even the treasury secretary came on this network and said, no, trump put and he talks about a detox trade. >> yeah. so what the trump administration is saying, hey, we care, but we really don't care. the put that i'm looking at is you are seeing fed fund expectations go up. you're seeing inflation expectations come down. there is some sort of put in the market okay. >> so you say there's still a fed put. there might not be a. >> trump put. there's not at this point there's not a trump put fed. and that's. >> more powerful than a trump put. >> i think so because what you're dealing with is monetary policy. you're going to lower interest rates. you're going to add accommodation. the ecb is also accommodating. and that could be pretty powerful. the other thing is we are seeing

inflation come down. the economy is okay for now. and as long as the economy cools and doesn't go into recession, that's a pretty good picture. but let me just add just talking about the ecb please. if you don't want to, you don't want to deal with a lot of the tariff issues. if you look over in europe, europe is a much better situation than what we see right here right now. they have better valuations. they have the ecb is a lot more active. they have upside surprises. what germany did or what germany proposed last week was phenomenal. i've never i don't recall ever seeing anything close to that in a very long time. in addition to that, they should get a peace dividend. the currency is much lower and sentiment is only turning positive right now and you don't have to deal with they will have to deal with tariffs at some point in time. but there's no one yelling tariffs every single day. that keeps that environment much more constructive. >> i feel like a lot of people are talking about that, right? i mean, at some point, do you get too many people on the same side of the boat, or can this boat continue to go for a while because valuations were so cheap

relative to so many different places around the world. >> so i was there in october, and in october we were saying that sentiment was so bad. maybe it's a contrarian indicator. >> it's so bad. it's so good. >> right? right. and we're saying, well, maybe after the election, well, it's now after the election. and yes, stocks have popped, but they've been de-rated for a long period of time. and if you look at that market on a standalone basis, there's a lot going on for it. so i don't think it's over just yet. >> all right. stay with me. we want to look at the chip space because it is one of those areas today that is getting a nice bounce. it's one of the reasons why the nasdaq has been leading. by the way, nvidia is certainly within that story. and altimeter's brad gerstner telling cnbc earlier today about that name, which got pretty attractive in his mind. listen. >> periods of uncertainty. >> we have high economic uncertainty, high political. >> uncertainty and high. >> technological uncertainty and high multiples right at all. >> time high multiples. >> so there's. >> only one. >> thing that can happen. discount rates have to go up, right. risk premiums.

>> have to go up. and when they do multiples come down. >> so for us that was just a period to say, okay, we'll go to the sidelines. we'll wait. >> this out a little bit. >> we've seen the markets come back in. and i have to tell you we were buying some yesterday because now you see nvidia at 18 or 19 times next year's earnings. now you're getting paid. >> but they weren't the only ones obviously kristina partsinevelos joins us now i'm looking at a lot of these names. broadcom micron you can go on and talk about more broadly too. but at some point this was going to become a buy whether this is a lasting one or not. who knows. >> yeah. especially when you talk about. >> valuations nvidia trading. >> well yesterday. >> it was. >> at. >> 24 times. >> when you had it. >> you know. >> just a few weeks ago. >> at 29 times. >> so some saying it's a big bargain. >> but to your point the sm is. >> finally breaking. >> its losing streak. >> it's heading up. >> and after down. >> two days. >> last two days. but i. >> don't want you to get too. >> excited yet. >> as it's still looking. >> at its fourth weekly drop in a row. to your point. >> so how long. >> is this going to last? the sm. >> does track nvidia. >> more closely than the stocks does. >> we often talk about. >> both as chip barometers. and

so. >> that's why. >> you'll usually see the sm and nvidia move. >> in tandem. >> or the sm move higher when nvidia is higher. >> and speaking. >> of. >> nvidia to your point, there was. >> a story i want to focus. on reuters. >> today. >> putting out that tsmc pitched nvidia, amd and broadcom on teaming up with intel. for a foundry joint venture. this isn't exactly breaking news. >> so. >> let me explain. these rumors have just been going on since mid-february. even digitimes out of taiwan was talking about taiwan semiconductor. actually joining forces with some us chip designer. the interesting part is that today's report from reuters mentioned this pitch happened before tsmc. >> announced that. >> massive $100 billion us investment on march 3rd. you're seeing a headline on your screen right now, but so realistically, this deal might. be a little less likely now that tsmc is already committing so much money to the united states and their expansion. still, word is that talks haven't completely died yet. and that's why you're seeing so many of these names higher today. and of course,

just people snapping up the chips because they've been lower. >> on valuations. >> and earnings have been strong. scott. >> yeah it's a good picture for us christina. thank you. this is christina partsinevelos. now let's bring in cameron dawson of new edge wealth. and jason snipe of odyssey capital advisors. chris harvey of course is still with us jason snipe, what do you think? is this the moment to buy? >> it's a great question, scott. >> and i think for me, i think. >> it's absolutely. >> of course, it's. >> been. >> a reset. >> in the market. >> you know. but a couple of things that i look for, especially with. >> the dislocations. >> that we've seen of recently, i do think it's an opportunity. couple of things. credit spreads have. >> obviously behaved. >> you know. >> they're still relatively tight. you know, when i think. >> about the earnings season that we've. just gone through. >> 15% plus earnings. >> growth, which has been solid. >> yes. >> earnings revisions. >> have been lowered. >> but we're. >> still at least. >> 10% higher. year over year, which i think is a positive. the other thing is as we as it. >> relates to last. >> year or even the last two years, you know, all the rage

was about ai infrastructure. i spend. and then and then we started to look at the capex numbers and started to turn towards profitability. and obviously those numbers. in for in terms of the mag, seven haven't done as well. but breadth has been stronger. it's nice to see other areas of the market starting to participate, whether it's the euro zone or the hansing or the k web. >> there's other. >> sectors that are performing. health care, right? so there's other there's optionality in the market, which i think is a positive. and i think this year will be a tale of two halves. i do think going into the second half, a lot of the tariff talk will start to quiet down. i think we will come to some resolution, and i think that will provide an opportunity for other parts of the market to really grow here. >> cameron. this seems to be the prevailing thought. first half messy second half better. >> it's certainly. >> becoming more consensus. we think that will remain choppy through the remainder of the year. so if we think about very

tactically today, we do think we're primed for some kind of rebound. certainly you're seeing it in today's price action and it could bring us up back to resistance levels in the s&p 500. somewhere between 5800 and 6000. but then we think that there's a risk that we could roll over and stay in this choppier environment. momentum has slowed substantially over the course of the last year. if you're looking at things like a weekly macd, you've also seen earnings diverge from prices. the last six months we've seen a rally in stocks. and yet earnings estimates have been continuously getting cut. so we think that that high valuation really created the environment for this weaker and choppy trading. the other thing that we have to watch for is that we got an easier cpi today. but yields are up. and what that tells us is that the fed's reaction function is not as much about easier inflation. it's about a weaker jobs environment. and then it becomes the be careful what you wish for moment, which

is that if you are getting those fed cuts, is it concomitant with a weaker economy, which we don't think equities would like? >> you know, chris, the other point, the word that cameron used is tactically which speaks near term. right. it's this is a tradable bounce not necessarily something to build on. you need more evidence. it still feels like as i said to mike santoli earlier today on halftime a guilty before proven innocent market. >> yeah i think that's right. so for now i think you're right. i think if you can trade nimbly great. if you can't trade nimbly take the strength or when you get strength to reposition the portfolio, if you're looking longer term, look toward europe, look to low vol, look to value. and that's where you place your bets. but in the first half of this year, it's going to be very volatile. you have to be very if you can be very tactical. and at the end of the day, the uncertainty, the macro uncertainty is just very, very

difficult to handicap, probably as hard as i've seen in a very long time. >> cameron. >> does it matter if the mega cap stocks reassert leadership in the market or as some have been calling, like chris, you know that this broadening is real. does it matter as much? >> there's such a big weight that we don't think that you can see the degree of upside that you saw over the last two years without the participation of the mega caps, and of course, does put a lot of onus on those value sectors, like a health care or a financials or industrials to deliver. and those have been rather lackluster. so we think we're at a really critical juncture for the mega caps. they are more oversold than we see in the rest of the market. yes, you are seeing them rebound today and you could see a ten, 11, 12% rebound in the mag seven cohort. and just get back to your 50 day moving average. but then we have to ask the question of how the market is going to take a second derivative slowdown in earnings growth. earnings growth for the

mag seven is clearly slowing from last year. and it's not it's now not outperforming the other for 93 nearly to the degree it was last year. which just suggests to us is that in the best case scenario, mag seven can't outperform as much as it has over the last two years. in the worst case scenario, it becomes more of the lag seven, where you continuously see this unwind in very crowded positioning, which we had to start the year. >> jason, you've got exposure obviously in this group. how do you how do you see it from here? >> yeah. >> so i mean i think the big thing that for. >> me. >> is the multiple obviously has come down significantly. ex tesla, you know the mag seven was trading at 35 times earnings three months ago and now trading at close to 24 times, which is a significant reduction. and the big one here is obviously nvidia which was trading at close to 40 times three months ago now trading at 24 times today. so i

do think there's an opportunity here to cameron's point that earnings growth has slowed some. it's definitely decelerated but the margins still remain strong. so i continue to like this sector. i think it's more of a market weight over an overweight going forward because i like other sectors of the market. but i think there's still opportunity in the tech. >> arena. and just just lastly to you, chris, these momentum names, the factor, the cohort of stocks, if they in fact are done correcting. yep. that's got to be good for the market overall. >> i think so. and i think they're done correcting or very close to being done correcting. and now i'm not a stock analyst nor play one on tv, but tons of people. to jason's point, tons of people are just talking about nvidia. and it's trading at a market multiple now, and you have still have significant growth. and that's what people are beginning to say. if you look at some of the mega cap companies, valuation has come down, technicals have improved and there's an opportunity here.

the other thing, if you look at it, there was a massive repricing of momentum a massive de-risking. a lot of these names got caught in it and it wasn't. the downturn wasn't so much. there was some fundamental part of it, but a good part of it was demands for liquidity and repricing. that's certainly what it what. >> it felt like. thank you everybody chris. we'll see you soon. thanks for coming over here to post nine cameron and jason, we'll certainly see you guys again. we're just getting started here on closing bell. up next our analyst eric woodring morgan stanley. he cut his apple price target today. it was big news. he speaks directly to you next. >> modern advisors need. >> modern solutions. explore modern alpha. >> enhance your portfolios and empower. >> your practice. >> all without. >> taking your. >> hands off the wheel. >> learn more about wisdomtree >> learn more about wisdomtree portfolio solutions. -what've you got there, larry? -time machine.

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now to tell us exactly why it's always good to see you, and great to have you on a day like today. >> thank you. >> for. >> having me. >> on, scott, i appreciate it. >> yeah. why did you do this? >> we're following the facts. >> and. >> we're following the data. you know. >> the two things. >> that we. >> did with this. >> note overnight. >> was obviously lower. >> our iphone. >> forecast really in 2026. >> and you know, we've. >> talked about this a. >> number of times. but i viewed. >> apple intelligence and the lack. >> of backwards compatibility. >> as a. >> key factor. >> in driving upgrades. >> starting with. >> the. >> iphone 17. >> launching this fall. and part of that. >> and this is dictated. >> by our alphawise survey. >> work. >> is that siri. or an advanced siri? >> integrated apple intelligence. >> is. >> the number one feature. >> that consumers. >> want from apple intelligence. >> and in the event that they don't. >> get the apple. >> intelligence features, they're looking for, 50% say they defer their iphone

purchase. as a result. >> it has. >> an impact on upgrade rates. and the news out late last week about the delayed siri advanced. >> siri integration means. >> i took a second look at my iphone units and determined that one of the catalysts that i had previously embedded into my numbers wasn't necessarily going to materialize ahead of the. iphone 17 launch, and therefore cut my numbers to kind of take that factor out of my expectations. so 230 million iphone shipments in calendar year. 25 largely unchanged, and then 243 million iphone shipments in calendar year 26. that's down from about 255 million units. that was the first change, and obviously the second change that maybe had a smaller impact was taking into account some form of tariff costs into apple's cost structure. again, we think about 55% of their of their products across all business lines come

from china. china obviously has a 20% tariff today. and we've seen that apple has not raised prices. we know that they would or we can. we can highly expect them to be trying to mitigate these costs kind of behind the scenes. for example, using india production, that wouldn't necessarily be tariffs. but at the end of the day, we wanted to be prudent and incorporate some degree of tariff costs into the model because, again, they guided the march quarter. on january 30th, china tariffs went into effect for the first time on february 4th. we wanted to make sure that we were taking into account some of those costs. sure. >> could we go as far as to say that the ai rollout here and all of that anticipation from wwdc has been a flop to this point? >> i would say that the rollout has been longer tailed than we would have expected, right. i think if we could all go back to june of last year and watch a number of the videos that apple came out with and kind of dream

the dream. there was a lot to get excited about. i still think there is a lot to get excited about. apple is a very unique position controlling the hardware, the silicon and the underlying operating system. they still have an advantage in that sense, but again, there was an expectation that we would get an advanced siri to some degree this kind of coming april and may alongside ios 18.4. and that's not happening. and there's a bit of ambiguity exactly when we get those features. and so the time to which apple intelligence is adding what i would call the killer app has been longer than expected, though, though that's an expectations miss. this is hard work to do. we're still very early days. that doesn't mean that apple cannot catch up and still be successful, but it is longer tailed than we would have expected, and we're adjusting our numbers as a result of that. >> we certainly have discussed at times the fact that, you know, the criticism of the stock was trading at a. >> premium.

>> premium multiple for the lack of premium fundamentals. right. and it feels like that's now coming home to roost a little bit. >> sure. and with apple listen it has always traded on its own paradigm i think as an apple analyst and knowing this stock for ten plus years, you really have to get the fundamentals right first and then valuation second. if we made a valuation argument over the last ten years, we would have said it was expensive. and so that's not to say you shouldn't take into account valuation. but the point is more let's understand where the numbers are going. are we seeing growth accelerate or decelerate? are they missing numbers or are they beating numbers? and at the end of the day, we still do believe growth can accelerate, just not to the same degree that we had baked in. and so yes, we are seeing some multiple contraction, rightfully so, as some of the predictability of the model that maybe we thought was embedded is not necessarily there. that's not to say that the multiple

can't de-rate further if there's more concerns or rerate in the event we had more confidence in the apple intelligence rollout. and so, again, it remains a very dynamic situation here. but to directly answer the question in the near term, it's kind of the market movements combined with the apple specific risks or lack of predictability in apple intelligence that is causing some of the wind to come out of the sails from the multiple. >> always direct you are and i appreciate that and i know our viewers do too eric we'll see you soon. thanks so much for being here with us today. >> thank you so. >> much, morgan stanley. we do have some more news regarding big tech. it's regarding the ftc as well. eamon javers is back for us with that. what do we learn here? eamon scott. >> bloomberg is now reporting that the ftc is pushing ahead with a broad investigation into microsoft sending an investigative demand for documents relating to microsoft's ai business. the question here, according to bloomberg, and they're citing people familiar with the matter, is whether or not i microsoft's

ai partnership with openai caused microsoft to then slash spending on its own ai efforts, and whether that was an anti-competitive deal with openai. so it's not clear that this is going anywhere anytime soon. they're sort of in the gathering documents phase of it, according to bloomberg. but i think the takeaway here is that an investigation that was opened under the previous administration is continuing under this administration and dovetails with what i reported yesterday. scott, from the new ftc commissioner, andrew ferguson, behind closed doors yesterday, speaking to some of america's most powerful ceos, told them that this ftc under donald trump is not going to be the wide open m&a free for all that a lot of people on wall street, frankly, thought it would be last fall after the election. in fact, he said, you know, this isn't going to be george w bush. this isn't going to be the 90s again. we are going to push forward where we think these deals are anti-competitive, where we think they're against the law. so we're waiting on confirmation from sources familiar with this

deal. i'm just checking my phone to see if anybody is texting me back. they are not. but that report according to bloomberg. scott. >> all right. when they do, you'll let us know eamon. appreciate it. i'll text you. text me. >> i'll text you. that's how it goes. >> yeah, i hear you. all right. up next is ron insana. he'll be here at post nine with what he thinks is next for stocks is the thinks is next for stocks is the worst behind us. ♪ are you having any fun? ♪ ♪ what you getting out of living? ♪ ♪ who cares for what you've got ♪ ♪ if you're not having any fun? ♪ ♪ have a little fun ♪ economy. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis, help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment

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stocks into a meltdown lately is the worst is behind us. let's ask ron insana, eye-fi ceo with me here on post at post nine on set. it's good to see you. good to see you. what's your sense of what's going on here? i know. >> it's from a market perspective. >> i don't think we're quite done. >> i mean, this was not exactly an. >> impressive bounce off the lows. yeah, yeah, it's a little feeble. yeah. >> i think. >> the chaos and the. >> uncertainty is unsettling. >> and you're starting to see. >> more and more stories come out of business. executives quietly are complaining, but not. >> yet. >> publicly willing to say anything. >> and you're seeing a lot of disruption take place. >> both at the business. >> level and, you know. >> with the. >> layoffs. >> somewhat indiscriminate. layoffs at the government level. >> i don't think this is done. >> i think the market underappreciate. >> the extent. >> to. >> which the trump. >> administration means all this. >> everybody keeps talking. >> about negotiating. >> tactics or incremental steps towards a goal. >> i don't. >> necessarily agree with that assessment. and so i. >> think the. >> markets may. >> be underpricing the risk, both economic and geopolitical going forward. i mean, there's been this belief that, you know,

this is somebody who lives by watching the stock market or did or did. yeah. well, that's where i was going. is that the belief going into trump 2.0 was the stock market was going to be critically important, just like it was the first time around. maybe what we're learning is that agenda and policy is more important than stock performance, at least in the near term, enough that the treasury secretary himself came on the air and said there was no trump put. >> yeah. >> is that what that's what you're alluding to? >> yeah, that's what i'm. >> look, i. >> think when. >> you really step back and. >> when you try to. >> be dispassionate about this and. >> again. >> i. >> always try to put. >> you know, personal preference aside and. do policy analysis when. >> you look at. >> everything that's. >> being. >> talked about, everything. >> that's happening. >> it appears to me anyway. and other people have said this, that the trump administration is recreating the world order post-world war two, right, on a trade and economic basis and on a geopolitical and military basis. >> and if. >> you look at it through that lens, then markets are. >> not anticipating fully the.

>> types of changes we'd like to see and likely to see in the next four years. let me ask you about that. then. maybe the markets weren't paying attention, because it's not like the campaign hid any of the objectives or ideals of president trump. right. so why why is the market surprised? so i think there was selective perception here, right? i mean, you look at the potential for extending tax cuts. >> maybe even deepening, deepening. >> them for corporations from 21%. >> to 15%. >> you look at deregulation. >> which if you. >> have to spend less on compliance, that goes straight to the bottom line, a net positive. you look at the assumption that mergers and acquisitions were going to pick up, irrespective of apparently, the. >> new ftc's point. >> of view. >> that maybe not. >> we're not going to. >> be. >> as lenient. >> as people thought. and then you thought there was going to. >> be an ipo deluge that was going. >> to come and, you. >> know, bring. >> and make new riches in the ai. >> space. >> which may. >> or may not happen. >> so i think. >> wall street focused on what would be positive for wall street and corporate america, but ignored all the other. pieces of this that could be net negatives for the economy. what

if it's all still going to be positive? it's just on the come. it's going to be later. yeah. it'll be later thought yeah. as i said, you know what robert kaplan said here in dallas. former dallas fed president of course said it's not like it's no, it's just not now. >> and it's. >> not that. it's no. >> i mean, let's say they just extend. >> the. >> tax cuts. right. >> so what's different going forward. >> right. >> you don't get that extra kicker to growth. if the corporate tax rate isn't reduced. >> yes. maybe you. >> get some kickers to growth if there's more deregulation. >> but again. >> that seems to. be not quite as aggressive. >> as people had anticipated. >> coming into. >> the i don't know, i mean, they're still talking about it regarding the banks. i mean. >> well. >> that's the one spot. yeah. but that's a big spot. yeah. when you're talking about deregulation. yeah. but that's the first place you look. and we know what happens when that happens. right? i mean 3 to 5 years out, you. >> have a. >> mistake somewhere in the financial system that causes problems later on. i mean. >> when the bush administration. >> turned the other way on lending standards for residential and other types of real estate, we had a credit bubble and a real estate

collapse that ensued. so i'm not a big fan of overly. deregulating the financial sector. yeah, you could see more mergers. >> and acquisitions. >> among regional and small sized banks, but you. >> know, how much. >> bigger can. >> the big banks get. >> without increasing. >> systemic risk? i think that's the question. you never you know as well as anybody, i mean, you see many more markets than me. i mean to date you, man. thank you i appreciate it. >> yeah. i'll be. >> 64 at the end. you can never. >> you're. >> never going to time things perfectly. but if you can look as we've been saying, forest through the trees. yeah. then maybe there is reason to be optimistic. like people were coming into the year. you just have to get through some of this mess. yeah. look. >> i think. >> i. >> think this year's one most definitely of uncertainty. and i think it's going to be fairly chaotic for some months to come. and, you know, i'll. >> you. >> know, stick with warren buffett's. >> you know. >> maxims that you never sell. >> the us economy short. >> no matter what. >> happens. >> we come out stronger on the other side. i'll buy that all the time. but that doesn't mean. >> there. >> can't be periods of chaos. there can't be bear markets. there can't be recessions. they

happen with surreal regularity. and i think that risk. >> is out there right now. >> i'm not convinced that, you know, this is a trading environment. in fact, i'm more convinced to a certain extent that europe, for. >> maybe the next. >> year or two might. >> be a better bet. oh that's right, from an equity perspective. you know, i started writing about that. >> in january. >> if they're going to reflate, if germany has $2 trillion in available spending capacity and they're going to buy defense goods, and other countries in europe are going to spend more money, they while we're contracting or at least reordering. >> government. >> they could be a better equity bet than the us. all right. we'll leave it there. all right. it's the knowledge. you bring the knowledge. appreciate you as always. good to see you, our buddy. all right, up next, we're tracking the biggest movers into the close. christina is back with that. tell us what you see. >> well, wall street roller coaster. >> continues as one major trading firm. platform actually rebounds on a key analyst recommendation. and a leading solar provider takes a hit as. >> industry recovery stalls. >> what it means for your portfolio next.

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brokerage world hard. but here's the good news deutsche bank sees plenty to like with those impressive trading volumes and healthy net deposits continuing to flow in. not too shabby. shares are up 6%. now to sunrun. not so much. i'm going to do the pun. it's not such a sunny day for them. jefferies just knocked them down from buy to hold. the solar sector just can't seem to heat up again. and all that uncertainty around the inflation reduction act is casting quite a shadow right now. and that's why you're seeing shares down almost 5% scott. >> all right. cristina. thanks for that. kristina. partsinevelos. still ahead, roche and novo nordisk moving in opposite directions today. we'll tell you exactly what's behind those moves coming up. >> sector sword is sponsored by sector spider etfs. sector spider etfs. visit us on the web at sector spiders.com. most

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market zone. cnbc senior markets commentator mike santoli here to break down these crucial moments of the trading day. plus moves today in the obesity drug space. angelica peebles is going to give us those details. and seema mody is looking ahead to adobe. earnings are out in overtime. mike to you first ron insana said it i mean this is not much of a bounce at all. >> no we were saying midday as well. so if you were on kind of team buy the oversold dip it's not a loss today, but it definitely does not feel as if you've you've done racked up a lot of the points you have held a few times, and what people considered important spots. also, this market keeps trading in this kind of mechanical in the bounds way. and i'll describe what i mean by that, which is three times this afternoon the s&p went up to 56 2025. that's the hurdle for whether this is going to be a real bounce or not, based on a lot of the flow metrics rejected each time. so we're just the machines are testing and testing. the vix hit 29.5 two days in a row, not letting it get to 30. the s&p 10% intraday

pullback bought the 10%. let's see if that sticks. so i think that's an implicit bet being made that this is mostly a hedge fund de-risking, along with the slow moving growth scare that we've maybe digested to some degree and not the beginning of a real radical downgrade of earnings power or or financial conditions. so, you know, so far that that's holding up. but it's tentative. >> we do have moves today, as i said, in the obesity drug space. angelica peebles joins us now with more on that. angelica. yeah. >> scott, like you said. >> two companies going in opposite directions. on one hand, you have roche, that company striking an obesity drug partnership with zealand pharma. roche will pay zealand $1.4 billion up front and up to 5.3 to get its hands on zealand's experimental drug, petrol and tide. the companies will work together to develop and sell the drug, and it works differently than the current drugs that we have on the market. from novo and lilly, roche has been making moves in this space to get deeper into obesity. doesn't have a drug yet, but it wants to be a major player in that space. and on the other hand, you have

novo. those shares are down about 4% today. the stock is having its worst week since december. earlier this week, novo shared some underwhelming data from its next generation obesity drug category, and it hasn't been able to shake that off. the company is facing questions about whether wegovy can maintain its edge over lilly's, and what the future of its obesity portfolio looks like. so a lot of questions there, scott. >> all right, angelica, thanks for that. seema is going to be looking at adobe. so software in focus once again. >> yeah. and scott the bar is sort of low. over the past three months we've seen shares of adobe. underperform its large. cap software peers by. >> a. >> significant margin. analysts at morgan. >> stanley say there's two reasons. one is a question about adobe's. generative ai positioning. and two is increasing competition. >> they add that earnings may not. >> solve those two debates. >> but its upcoming. >> summit next week, in which it's expected to. >> unveil new products, including its. >> higher priced firefly with. >> video models that could potentially. >> be a catalyst this week. yes,

difficult for tech software as well. >> but palantir. >> servicenow, salesforce bouncing. back a bit today, we'll see if adobe results can help extend. >> this sort of relief. >> rally, and be sure. >> to. >> stick around in the next hour. when adobe. ceo shantanu narayen sits down with cnbc. post-results scott. >> all right, sima, thanks. we'll watch for that. adobe is like the anti momentum name. yes. but there is conversation in the market today. speaking of those types of names as to whether the de-risking deleveraging and the selling in there the unwind is winding. >> and a lot of evidence that it's you know pretty far along. and it's not an incrementally destabilizing force. i mean we don't have a bounce today. if nvidia and tesla and meta are not up pretty substantially. so they would have been in that matrix. banks did get a bid today as well. banks kind of got glommed in with a lot of the momentum names, especially things like jp morgan. so yeah, we have some relief on that front. i wouldn't say that that that's something that you feel like is another shoe that's going to immediately drop. and then the question really comes

in, look, we got a better than expected cpi. the bond market just sort of sniffed at it because it feels like there are other things it has to be pricing at this point, including global yields. but that's a help going into the fed meeting. and it also allows the vix to come down a couple of points and feel like it might be in a decent spot. >> i still hear people saying, well, ppi is still a wild card. absolutely. tomorrow too. so you know that's another read that we got to get through. >> right. because that's where you can draw the direct line to pce, which the fed cares about. it's also ppi has served as a little bit of a market mover in terms of giving relief on the disinflation side for that very reason. so yes, it'll matter. all of it will. we're in the kind of no man's land in terms of bigger earnings. there's not a lot to reprice sentiment has done what it probably has to do. i know a lot of people are like, we really want the fear and the blood in the streets. you're not really getting that. you don't have to pay any price for downside hedges type of activity. but for a 10% in a

blink pullback, you may not have expected to see that yet. >> all right. >> good stuff. >> mike i'll see. >> you tomorrow. >> thanks so much. so bell will ring us out on the show. >> but we. will finish green. >> elsewhere. >> christine i'll see you tomorrow. we'll see. >> what that day brings in. the oc was down for. >> that. bell marks the. >> end of regulation. >> cloudflare ringing the closing bell. >> at the new york stock exchange. >> just capital doing the honors at the nasdaq. and a mostly positive close. >> today as investors. >> wage away a hopeful inflation print against. policy uncertainty from washington. >> the nasdaq. >> seeing a. >> decent pop, finishing higher by. >> about 1.25%, led. >> by micron, palantir, tesla. >> and nvidia. >> let's see the s&p. >> might not have held on to 5600. we'll see. >> where it settles. >> that's the scorecard on wall street. >> but winners. >> stay late. >> welcome to closing. >> bell. >> overtime i'm. >> jon fortt. >> morgan brennan. >> is off today. well coming up this hour eni