wouldn't have had a chance on the robotics team that we started. ♪ tonight a man who married america's sweetheart and then broke her heart. jesse james, what are you thinking? >> as far as the relationship with sandy, you know, i should have done the honorable thing and i should have left her. >> his lives, his loves, his side of the story. >> i don't belong, you know, trying to think that i'm some fancy -- because my wife is fancy that makes me fancy. you know, it's [ bleep ]. >> he says we don't know the real jesse. tonight i'm going to find out. nothing is off limits. sandra bullock, kat von d and his outlaw life.

if you had your time again, would you do the same thing? jesse james, no holds barred for the hour. this is "piers morgan tonight" prime time exclusive. >> you thought i was going to hit you. love him or hate him, jesse james puts it out there saying his life is an open book and that's exactly what has become in this book entitled "american outlaw." jesse joins me now. jesse, we've met twice. once was on "celebrity apprentice" when i gave you a grilling. not getting money off your then-wife sandra. >> you thought i was going to hit you. >> i did actually. it's the one time in my recent television career where i thought this is not going to end happily. you kept staring at me with this death stare. >> i'm sorry. >> i mean, you have got quite a chilling death stare.

>> no, i'm a pussy cat. >> the second time we met was a slightly more surreal situation. it was the oscars. i was on the red carpet. you came down. we had a bit of fun about "the apprentice" and i said, can you meet sandra? you went and brought her over. i checked yesterday because i made a note at the time what she said. i said, i really like jesse. you're lucky to have him. she said i wake up every day and i remind myself how lucky i am to have him. and within four days it was all over. the scandal broke. and that was it. i found it sad when i read back the notes i made then. >> i think it was sad, you know. it's funy, you know, like how quick life can change and the things that you -- that are closest to you can be gone in the blink of an eye. it's not just me.

it's for anyone, you know. >> you're very honest in the book. commendably so. you don't hide anything. you take all of the criticism firmly on your chin. i suppose the overriding question for me when i read it was, if you had your time again, would you do the same thing? >> as far as the infidelity stuff? >> as far as -- i think the key thing, talk a lot about the relationship with sandra. you talk a lot about what happened. i'm going to come to that later in the interview. but i just wondered when i read it whether you regret that it happened or regret it being exposed or how do you really feel >> i think the whole book is hindsight. starting from when i was a kid, you know, i would rather get the football scholarship instead of being in jail when the scouts came around. >> would you? >> yeah. >> i mean, these are interesting questions. >> if i could have went back and played football now and still get a college scholarship even though i never would have turned

pro because i was too small, i would do that. you know, i think as far as the relationship with sandy, you know, i should have did the honorable thing. i should have left her. if i wanted to screw around, i should have, you know, ended it. but, you know -- >> girn where your life has ended up now, the question i'm really asking is whether you regret the course of events. forget your behavior for a moment or whether you wish you were never unfaithful and still with sandra. how do you honestly feel? >> i wouldn't go back and change things, you know. in a way i'm glad stuff happens. i'm not happy i hurt her and hurt so many people around her and my family and everybody else, you know. i would never want to put anybody through that again. but i'm a firm believer that things happen in life to teach us a lesson, you know. there's obviously someone that thought i was a strong [ bleep ] to put this kind of adversity on

me, you know and, push me to my damn near to my breaking point, you know, and things are, i think, better now. you know, like, there's some sadness there and some regret and guilt and sorrow and every kind of negative emotion you could imagine, but i don't think, you know -- i mean, god, you know, how do you, you know -- if i could go back through my whole life and not make all of the mistakes i would make, sure. yeah. i would be a perfect person. >> i got as far as very early part of the book when i start reading how your father hit you. punched you. we're not talking about just a smacked bottom. this is like -- >> i probably deserved it. i was a pretty bad kid. >> but a proper punch is different, isn't it? >> i think getting punched in the face by my dad was, whoa,

there's a lot of hate there. that wasn't love. >> horrible. >> yeah, it sucked. you know, but -- >> why was he like that? why was he so angry? >> well, i think it was probably learned behavior. people are taught everything, you know. i think he probably learned it from someone else or his dad or someone in his family. i don't think that stuff comes out of the blue. you know, i think there was problems with probably substance abuse and stuff like that. you know, i don't really blame him for his actions. my dad, you know, i still love my dad. he's like the white fred sanford. you know, he was a great guy. we were buddies when i was growing up. i just think that like kids was an afterthought. it wasn't a priority. oh, [ bleep ], i got kids. you know, he didn't -- it didn't control his actions because -- >> did he ever apologize to you for hitting you? >> no. >> do you think he should? >> no. i don't think so. i think i'm cool with it.

it's kind of the dichotomy of me. it's made me who i am. made me strong. made me never do that to my kids. so, you know. >> your big dream was to be a footballer and you had real talent. but partly, i think, reading -- >> real football, not the kickball like like you guys play. >> the big guys where you wear padding and helmets. to be serious, this was a big dream of yours. you were talented. but reading the book, you drift into a life of crime. partly, i suspect, because of this abuse you are getting at home. >> yeah, i think i was kind of clinging to anything. i'd cling to the wrong friends and the wrong crowd. on the football field, i was a discipline soldier. i would kill for my coaches and do everything perfect, every drill, every practice, everything. i'd be the first one there and the last one to leave. you know, but as soon as -- but as soon as football season ended, i didn't have any structure, so i would just get

in trouble and steal stuff and get in fights and, you know, football was basically my family. that was my family structure and family life. i think that's why i have the work ethic i have and i like teamwork and leadership and all that stuff is because of football. >> the crime escalated to the extent that right at a crucial time in your football career really, you end up in jail. you have carried out some form of armed robbery. when you think back to what you were doing then, do you recognize the man that you were then, a young man? >> yeah. i think it was foolish. if i could go back and change any one thing in my life, i would go back and get that scholarship to any of the hundred schools that recruited me. >> do you think going to jail just ruined that? they all ran a mile? >> oh, yeah, totally. because i was in jail for 90 days. and all the college scouts

showed up to my high school to meet me the two weeks after the season was over, and my coach couldn't lie to them. hey, where's jesse? we want to meet him and see how fast he runs the 40-yard dash and all that is stuff. and he had to tell them, hey, i was in jail. >> when you were in jail, what were you thinking? >> it was sad, you know. i think it was -- i felt probably the most alone i've ever felt in all my life because i didn't really have a lot of family to speak of, and i just had the friends i made in there, you know. and it just -- it -- man, i'm glad i did it because i think it kind of -- >> but aside from jail life, in terms of you and your values as a human being, because you clearly -- you didn't go back into jail so you managed to get out of the cycle when you came out. you must have when you were in there thinking h is not a life i want to lead. >> i think my senior year in high school when i missed, you

know over a hundred days of the year and almost didn't graduate, i had to go to summer school to get my diploma and then missed out on college scholarships and then hi to go to a junior college which was like a putdown to me because i was such a highly recruited player and then hi to go to, like, you know, a small school, like where all the screw-ups go. i think it kind of said like, hey, i've got to take care of business, you know, and not do that again. got to get a job and get responsible. >> how hard was it to get a job when you've done time? it's not easy, is it? >> well, i was a juvenile and it wasn't really doing time. you know, it was 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. it wasn't really like convict time. you know, i'm not minimizing it, but i don't think when you're 18 or anything like that, people really don't look at a guy that moves furniture for a furniture

store, you're not looking at his record. >> let's take a short break. when we come back, i want to talk to you about this bizarre career move you made into becoming -- i think bizarre from where you've come from to become a rock star bodyguard.

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my special guest, jesse james. you started doing various odd jobs and then you meet rick rubin, the producer. he takes you under his wing. one of your first jobs is doing security for one of his bands including flava flave and your specific task is to stop him from smoking crack during performances. >> not during performances. he was recording an album and they had me drive around and follow him and make sure he didn't buy crack from anyone in l.a. for a week. >> the big break, the thing you really loved was motor bikes. tell me how you got into this

and realized i can make proper money at this. >> i never did it about the money. when i was on the road with bands like late '80s and early '90s, i spent most of the time in europe. i started going to every motorcycle shop i could go to all over england and france and germany and scandinavia and i kind of started putting together, like, hey, i want to build motorcycles. when i was off the road, you know, i would work on my bikes. i always had some project going at home and i just kind of -- that's what i loved. i loved building stuff. >> you not only made a living but you got a tv show. you became this huge hit. the downside for you and again you're very honest about this. you got married at this stage. but you're pretty devoted to this new business of yours. the marriage falls apart. >> i was married to that shop first and foremost. i was married to west coast choppers for the last 17 years. anything else was secondary, you know.

>> you then get remarried to a porn star who is abusive to you. that's where when i read the book i start to see the seeds perhaps of a lot of the problems that follow you later. you've been punched by your father. you get beaten up by this adult entertainment star/wife of yours. >> i think that's what was going -- i mean, you know, that relationship was going to what i know. the chaos and everything was exactly what i grew up with, so i'm going to what i'm comfortable with. >> you were drawn to it? >> yeah. that seemed like home to me. soon after that is when sandy walked into my life. it was like the complete opposite. stable, has her own job and has -- you know, well spoken and, you know, kind of, you know, america's sweetheart, you know, that typical girl next

door, compared to, like, something that was chaos, you know, i kind of -- like, wow, you know, that's the kind of person i need to be with, you know. >> when you first got together with sandra, tell me about the early days. where did you meet her? >> i met her at the shop. she brought her godson in to meet me who was a big fan of the shop and "monster garage." >> you're not a likely couple if you don't mind me saying that. when i first saw you together i was like, you're clearly a kind of -- you know, i would say exactly what you portray in the book. you're a bad boy. bad boy with tattoos. he's used to being a security guard at concerts. she's america's little sweetheart. you're not a natural fit. >> well, you know, you can't ever pick and choose who you want to be with. when you fall in love with someone and it happens -- >> it was love at first sight for you? >> i think it was for me to a certain extent.

i don't know -- i think there was a courtship and we fell in love and, you know, it was -- it's pretty well documented. >> that's been how your life has been ever since. >> yes. >> you entered a goldfish bowl when you get together with a movie star, especially one of the biggest movie stars in the world, your life is no longer private. i mean, you found that out -- >> i've been like that since i was in junior high school. i've been one of those people that people like to tell stories about and talk about. you know, so i'm kind of fused to it on -- >> a magnet for gossip. >> yeah. i'm always the guy that everyone wants to fight and i'm always the person that people talk smack about. >> when you start going out together, as i say you're an unlikely couple. what was it you think that made it work for so long? what were the things that you had in common? >> i think, you know, definitely the kids and our like interests. and, you know -- i don't know.

i mean, i really loved her, so, you know, i think frying to look back now at like what that one thing was that made it work, you know, i can't really name any one thing. you know, i think we -- >> when you asked her to marry you after six months, that's quite quick. >> uh-huh. >> you must have been sure then this was the one for you. >> i was pretty sure. >> did any part of you think you have a little devil on your shoulder, given everything you've been through before, did you worry that although it all seems so normal and nice and perfect for you, actually your character, your personality, doesn't allow that kind of thing? >> i don't think i ever had a devil on my shoulder or something like that. but i think myself, like, i had no business being in a relationship with anyone. you know, it could have been sandy or janine or carla or anyone and it would have never worked. >> why? >> the problem was with me. it wasn't with them or the relationship or anything.

you know, because i never thought highly of myself or never loved myself. i was never comfortable in my own skin. you know, i was still trying to, like, put up this big front of, like, you know, i'm a bad ass bike builder or body guard or football player. any of the stuff i've tried to put out there and to try to maintain a relationship with someone when i don't like myself, it was doomed from the start. >> we're going to take a break. when we come back, i want to talk to you about the scandal that broke involving you and sandra.

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to my husband, there's no surprise that my work got better when i met you because i never knew what it felt like for someone to have my back. so, thank you. >> i mean, jesse james, that's painful to watch for me and i hardly know sandra. i met her once in my life. i think everyone watching it feels for her every time they see it because clearly she doesn't know what's coming. you didn't know what was coming but you knew what you were doing. when you watch that at the golden globes, just before i saw you at the oscars, what do you think watching that back now? >> it just makes me sad. it's sad that, you know, i --

not for myself but for her, you know, to put her through what i put her through, so -- >> i mean, do you hate yourself for doing that? >> i think i've forgiven myself for what i've done. >> has she forgiven you? >> i think so. i think, you know, she's in a place of forgiveness, and, you know and it just -- i mean, it sucks to have these kind of problems that, like, millions of couples have and everyone has but on such a global level, you know, because everything played out. you know, it was like wildfire and it played out in the media in such a horrible way. you know, like -- which, you know, seemed kind of unfair to me at a point. but, you know, i stood up like a man and took it on the chin. >> i mean, are you completely to blame? i mean, is the life of being with a big hard working movie star all it's cracked up to be? can it be lonely to be that guy?

>> i don't know -- well, i think for everything that happens, i'm 100% to blame. you know, i take full accountability for my actions. no one was holding a gun to my head to do what i did. >> i want to read you an extract from the book you wrote about the moment that you tell sandra, because it was very powerful. sandy came in and sat down in a share. i closed the door after her and sat down myself. we stared at each other and finally i told her the truth. i admitted the affair. i told her the hard details. i let her know i never loved this woman. i never cared for her at all. and sandy asked me why i had done it. but i had no answer for her. what do you think when you hear that back? >> it just kind of takes me back to that day. it was sad. you know, it's tough to tell somebody -- someone that you love, it's tough to tell them something when you know when you tell them you're never going to see them again.

>> and you knew that? >> yeah, i was pretty sure. >> did she have any inkling about what had been going on? >> i think there was some suspicions which were right on her part. but, you know, it just -- you know, i think she was -- you know, it came out of left field. she wasn't ready for it or anything like that. >> you say in the book you heard a voice in the back of your mind that said, get out of this while you still can. >> yeah. i think, you know, i knew it was an internal struggle because i think turning to infidelity or something to, like, either stroke my ego or whatever it was, you know, i don't think it was a decision i made 100% willingly or vindictively or anything like that.

it was a strug. and it made me feel worse than before it happened. >> sandra is a pretty private person. >> uh-huh. >> how has she been about the book? >> i don't know. i don't really talk to her. so, like, i don't -- >> you don't talk to her at all? >> nope. >> it's really nothing? >> nothing. >> when was the last time you spoke with her? >> several months ago. >> how do you know she's forgiven you? >> well, she told me before that she forgives me, so -- >> do you think she understands you better than, perhaps, other people do? >> i think so. i think -- i don't know about other people. i mean, there's probably people i'm closer to now than i ever was to her, you know. >> your current partner? >> i think so. >> really? that's interesting. why do you think that is? >> i think -- >> have you changed? >> i think so. i think i was willing to do the hard work and take a look at the stuff i never wanted to look at or stuff i wanted to ignore.

stuff i talk about in the book and with kat that i have a partner that's, like, you know, we're connected on a higher level. >> on a superficial level, i look at her, kat, and i look at you, and i see a perfect fit. you're both covered in tattoos. she's a rock chick. you like your bikes. i get that. but given your previous partners and then kat now, sandra just seems like this weird time in your life that just was never going to work. >> and well, and that's a question to ask, you know. was it just my ego? was it me trying to be a big shot and, oh, i'm jesse james, i'm a bad [ bleep ], i can have a movie star for a wife. >> was it that? >> i think a lot of it was my ego and it was my ego why i hurt her and why i didn't just leave the relationship when i should have. you know, because my ego said, i need this wife so i'm cool or

people like me or whatever, which is the bad recipe for anything. i think you should follow your heart and what's really right for you and meeting someone like kat, not meeting her, we were friends for a long time and friends and mutual respect and it just -- i think that maybe that was the problem. i don't think sandy and i were ever really friends. we went right into a relationship and then marriage and then right into that and never really friends and, you know, kat and i seem to be connected on such a higher level. we have like such a deeper understanding of each other and, you know, outlook on the world and stuff like that. and, man, she's a bad ass, too. you think i'm bad and i'll brow beat you, you should interview her. she'll scare the hell out of you. >> one of the things about, when you marry a movie star and it

all goes wrong, the last place you want to be is hollywood because suddenly you are in that world and then, bang, you're the bad guy everybody hates. >> yeah. >> well, hey, you know, the first press statement i said that i'll -- i deserve everything bad that's coming my way, and i stand behind that, you know. people -- this book's coming out this week and people will take another opportunity to, like, say all kinds of bad stuff and make up stories and whatever, but let them. i don't really care anymore. if people -- i can be the villain and she'll always be america's sweetheart. >> we're going to take another short break. when we come back, i want to talk to you about the worst time for you, when it hit rock bottom after this and then how you came back from that. aaah! [ airplane engine whines ] [ grunts ] [ dog barking ]

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>> trying to get an autograph from you, please. >> hey, don't block me, man. >> got to let her get out. let her get out. watch out. >> good. >> that was a moment of paparazzi madness for you and sandra. the height 6 of your relationship and that public glare. as you said before the break, you know, afterwards it was

worse than you thought it would be when it all came out. at its absolute worst, what were you going through? >> well, i think the stuff is just trying to protect the kids. i'm a dad first and foremost and trying to protect the kids from anything, you know, like women reporters waiting outside my house so they can -- right in front of my 6-year-old daughter asking me if i'm a nazi and asking me how many whores i've been with and stuff like that in front of my kids. you know, and it's just like -- you know, it's freedom of speech. i can't really stop them. and, you know, it just -- it just was bad. and i think i started -- you know, my initial reaction would be to like just, you know, let them have it. not the women but like some of the more aggressive male paparazzi. i mean, one of the guys that sat out in front of my house for months was the guy that mike tyson knocked out.

the guy's just like relentless just saying, they're trying to get me to hit him. that's those guy's dream for me to like attack them. >> the paparazzi, the media, tabloids, all that kind of thing, it kind of goes with the territory. i'm not going to defend all their practices. >> well -- >> and some go over the top. but, of course, it is chicken and the egg. if you hadn't given them the juicy bone to gnaw on, they wouldn't be there. >> i totally get that. but when it's day in and day out for six months or four months, and there's nowhere to hide. i only go from my house, take the kids to school and go to the shop. that's the three places i go for months. and they're waiting at all three places. >> when you went to a news stand and saw endless magazine covers absolutely pillaring you -- >> i don't go to a news stand. >> alloy you me to enlighten you. you were not the most popular guy in america. a lot of people particularly

women hated you for what you had done as you say to america's sweetheart. >> yeah. i think those people barely liked me anyway. >> do you care now what they think? >> i couldn't care less. really honestly i couldn't care less what anybody thinks. some of the stuff they said like calling me a nazi and stuff like that, which is, like, you know, it was just so outlandish. >> they called you that because you wore nazi memorabilia. >> so did the prince of your country. >> true. he did. >> is he a nazi? >> no, i don't believe he is. >> neither am i. >> have you ever had nazi sympathies in. >> no. nothing. i have jewish relatives. i've been to israel. i would never sympathize with anybody that is persecuted and nazis were pure evil. >> why pose like that? >> it was a joke. i mean, it was obviously done at my house. and it was done a decade ago. you know, i think whatever magazine ran that, they made it sound like it was taken that

week. and the way they worded the article and that stuff. and it's just -- you know, it's a business. they paid $200,000 for that shot. >> you don't collect any nazi memorabilia? >> nope. i collect german cars, like world war ii era volkswagens is what i collect. and i've collected them since i've been in high school, you know. >> you think that some people might put that together with the picture and get the wrong idea about you? >> i think if you wanted to, like, point to anything and find some kind of like racism or anti-semitism or anything f you really looked tat long enough you could build up whatever scenario you have. do the math. i grew up -- i was born in south central l.a. i grew up in an all-black, all-hispanic neighborhood. i was the only white kid. i was the one discriminated against. i would never have, you know -- i grew up around people that were bigots and racists and told myself i would never, ever be that way no matter what. >> if sandra's watching this,

which she might well be, how would you feel towards her listening to the way that you talked about her? >> i talked about her or -- >> yeah. you've been pretty frank. >> well, i -- there's still a lot of -- a level of respect for her. and i wouldn't, you know, say anything disparaging. i've already -- you know, it's a fine line between me wanting to promoted a book that's my life story and, like, not hurting feelings i've already hurt enough. i don't want to hurt her anymore. i don't want, you know, her family and anybody in my family or anybody else to go through any pain anymore, but i wanted to tell my story, you know. i'm not going to hide. i'm not -- you know, i think i have a pretty viable tv career. i'm good at what i do. i'm going to continue to do it. i made mistakes and it's up to me to move past it.

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was. does that make me bad person? four barrel carb. it's the real deal. >> that was jesse james in "monster garage" back with me now. >> monster what? >> garage we call it. what do you call it? >> garage. >> garage. >> that societies pounds posher said it. >> i think that's the first time i've heard it called that. >> now, tell me about the people that, i guess, ythat matter mos in all of this. reading the book i got the sense you appreciate that and that's all the children involved. start with the baby that you adopted with sandra. that seems a particularly difficult situation to try to deal with now. >> well, i don't think so much now because i've kind of come to grips with the reality of it and the situation that i can't

control so, you know, once i think i did that it kind of, you know, became less painful. >> are you allowed to see the child? >> i've never saw him. >> since you left? >> yep. >> how long has that been now? >> it's been a year. >> that must be hurtful, isn't it? >> well, i think it will always be a source of pain. i hope some day when he grows up that he knows that, you know, he had a good dad or still has one if the opportunity to be part of his life ever presents itself, of course, i'll step up and -- >> have you tried to get access? >> yes. >> it's been denied to you? >> yes. >> on what grounds? >> i don't know if grounds were given. just, you know -- you know, if anything, it's taught me, i have to appreciate the three kids that i do have. >> i mean, they in turn

presumably don't see sandra. >> uh-huh. >> and that must be hurtful and difficult for them. >> yeah. they also don't see their little brother, too. so -- >> i mean, it's a horrible situation. >> well, i think any marriage that ends and kids are involved or some kind of trauma or whatever, infidelity or whatever, this is like real life in america or in the world playing itself out. you know, there's always going to be people that are hurt and it's the by-product of poor decisions and bad actions. so you know, i've kind of done my best to, like, corral the situation and make sure my kids are happy and healthy and well cared for and take good care of in the best possible way and have a dad that's, like, presented every single day. >> do they ask you why necessity can't see their little brother? >> they do. there's questions.

it's been the hardest for sunny because, you know, sandy was sunny's mom more than her real mom and it's -- you know, i'm left in the middle to, like, explain. i think the older kids understand the situation and understand that's the definition of divorce. hey, gone, splitting, separation, you know. >> the finality of the picture that you're painting suggests that sandra -- you may hope she's forgiven you but certainly nothing in this suggests that she wants much to do with you. it's hard to imagine when you watch the golden globes clip and look back at the oscars that was greatest time of her career and it was all kind of taken away and she was exposed to pretty relentless humiliation. not many things worse for a woman and to do it in the public glare. if you put yourself in her shoes -- >> well, i don't think it's any different than a normal

housewife that gets cheated on that, you know, gets in the public glare of her three block radius because that's what her life means. you know, i think it's all in perspective. and, you know, i know i did bad stuff so i'm fully accountable for that. >> we're going to take a final break. when we come back, we'll talk to you about the "celebrity apprentice" where we first met and also about the new love of your life. >> cool. [ male announcer ] in 2011, at&t is at work, building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity, and investing billions of dollars to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call to the most advanced data download, we're covering more people in more places than ever before in an effort to give you the best network possible. at&t. rethink possible.

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i will say this that piers couldn't figure you out. he didn't get it. piers didn't like the fact that you could have raised a lot of money and you didn't. jesse, you're fired. great job. >> got fired from "celebrity apprentice" mainly down to me. >> you take pride in that, don't you? >> i kind of felt he deserved it. >> the second job i ever got fired from. the first one was for punching a customer. >> really. i admired what you were saying in the sense that you were enting it independently and didn't want to rely on sandra's money. had i known what i know now, i would have been less keen to see sandra's money heading your way but at the time i just remember --

>> you hollywood people and your perception, hey, let's get free money from movie people, whatever. >> that's not the real world. the real world is like people work their asses off for 50 hours a week and then get a paycheck and make something and hand it to someone and get paid for it. that's how the real world is. >> you weren't in the real world. you were in fantasy world. were you married to a movie star making $25 million a movie. >> yeah, i'm still working every day at my shop, like a dog seven days a week. >> you could have won "the apprentice" had you played that card and raised more money. >> yeah, but, i don't know, that's the easy way. looking for a handout? >> your new lady, cath von d, do you get freebies? >> yeah, i get 50% off. >> you love your tattoos, don't you? on you, on your women, i mean, you like tattoos. >> i like it. it's like doodling. i see myself without tattoos and it looks like a coloring book

that wasn't colored in and i hate it. >> cath von d., you already discussed why you're better suited to her. are you engaged? >> she got me a ring and we're not getting married yet. >> when do you plan on getting married? >> pretty soon. >> you're a brave man. this is number fourk right? >> i've been married for like 20 years if you add them all together. >> you're an incurrable romantic? >> no, i think, you know, i'm not a quitter and, you know, i still believe in love and romance and, you know, she's just awesome, you know. i think me wanting to get mayor aid fourth time isn't about me, it's about how amazing that woman is, you know. >> do you believe you may have found true love? >> i think so. i've never felt the way i do, you know, for anyone the way i feel for her. i've never had that feeling, and i've never had someone like have

my back 100%, you know, and stick by me when everyone turned their back, and she says [ bleep ] it. i'm -- i'm your friend, and i -- i stand by you. i don't care what anybody says, you know, and i think that's the definition of like what, you know, people that care about each other should be. >> we heard sandra saying exactly that, that's what she felt you were to her. >> she didn't say that. >> pretty much, that you were the rock. >> yeah, but, you know, she said that same speech at four different awards shows, you saw two of them. >> what's your point? >> i don't know. you can take out of it whatever you get out of it, you know. >> you don't think she meant it? >> i -- i think she meant it to a certain extent, you know. what does she do for a living? >> movie star. >> what. >> >> an actor. >> oh, okay, cool. >> you think it was an act?

>> i think, you know, that whole -- that people have to live in that world and -- >> are you glad to be out of it? >> man, 100%. i just can't -- like, i just -- you know, i -- i don't know. i don't know how i survived in there as long as i did because it's just like you're cool, but rest of those people, i just can't hang with them. i just -- i don't know. it's -- >> are they all pretty fake, is that what you're saying? >> it's just pretend. it's not real. i'm like the guy that goes to a shop, and i don't hang out in the office. i go to the back of the shop and hang out in the shop with the guys that are greasy dirty, and that's where i belong. it's more about myself and where i belong in this world, and i don't belong, you know, in trying to think that i'm fancy because my wife is fancy and that makes me fancy. it's [ bleep ].

>> and yet that's kind of why you went into the relationship. >> yeah, i think so. i think it was a lot of ego and a lot of perception of what i thought i should have, not what i needed, and i think it was more, you know, a testament to what i felt about in my level. >> do you think you're capable now of being faithful? >> i think so, you know. i think it's something that's like a conscious day-to-day, you know, thought process, and, you know, i think i'm local with, you know, ca rk, kat that i don something that i needed and some kind of affection or vice versa, and both of us are committed on working on our relationship together and each of us are 100% for one another and never had a partner that did that. it's always been my way or the highway, you know, or something like that, and, man, she's like -- you know, she's committed to being like everything that i want her to be

and same here. i love her like crazy and it's like, you know, people i think on their tv show, they only get to see a small little portion of how great she is, but she's -- she's amazing. >> well, jesse, i wish you luck. >> thanks, piers. >> i hope we don't have to meet in a couple of years with another terrible scandal casc e cascading on your head. >> no, i think i'm done with all that. >> thank you. >> monday night, my primetime interview with donny and marie osmond, 40-year career and marie's heartbreak and donny's rendition of a song that's tormented us for all these years. what i want to here, and it's just for me, i want to hear one more time. >> that wasn't our song. >> i want a little bit of "puppy love, kwl" the song that you've loved and hated all your life. a little bit of "puppy love." >> let me undo my mike. >> what are you doing? ♪