the robotics team that we started. > tonight, the man who married america's sweetheart and broke her heart. jesse james, what were you thinking? >> as far as the relationship with sandy, you know, i should have did the honorable thing. i should have left her. >> his life, his loves, his side of the story. >> i don't belong, you know, trying to think i'm some fancy -- you know, because my wife is fancy, that makes me fancy. you know, it's [ bleep ]. >> he says we don't know the real jesse. tonight i'm going to find out. nothing is off limits. sandra bullock, kat von d, his

skrut law life. if you had your time again, would you do the same thing? jesse james, no holds barred. for the hour. this is a piers morgan tonight prime time exclusive. >> you thought i was going to hit you. love him or hate him jesse james puts it out there. he says his life is an open book and that's what it's become in this book entitled "american outlaw." jesse joins me now. jesse, we met twice. once on "celebrity apprentice" when i gave you a bit of a grilling. >> that was awesome. you thought is going to hit you. >> i did actually. it was the one time in my recent television career when i thought, this is not going to end happily. you kept staring at me with a death stare. >> i'm sorry. >> you have quite a chilling

death stare. >> no, i'm a pussycat. >> the second time we met was a more surreal situation. it was the oscars. i was doing the red carpet. you came down and we had fun about "the apprentice." i said, can i meet sandra? you brought her over and i checked yesterday because i made a note at the time of what she said. i said, i like jesse. she said i wake up every day and i remind myself how lucky i am to have him. >> mm-hmm. >> within four days it was over. the scandal broke. that was it. i find it sad when i read back the notes i had made then. >> i think it was sad. it's funny, like, how quick, you know, life can change and the things that are closest to you can be gone in the blink of an eye.

it's not just me, it's for anyone, you know? >> you're honest in the book and commendably so. you don't hide anything. you take all the criticism firmly on your chin. i suppose the overriding question for me when i read it was, if you had your time again, would you do the same thing? >> as far as like the infidelity stuff? >> as far as -- the key thing here is you talk about the relationship with sandra. you talk a lot about what happened. i will come to that later in the interview. i wondered when i read it if you regret that it happened or you regret it being exposed or how you really feel. >> i think the whole book is hindsight. you could go hein sight on any of it. starting from when i was a kid i would rather get the football scholarship instead of being in jail when the scouts came around. you know? >> would you? >> yeah. >> these are interesting questions. >> if i could have went back and played football now and still get a college scholarship though

i never would have turned pro because i was too small, i would do that. as far as the relationship with sandy, you know, i should have did the honorable thing. i should have left her. you know? if i wanted to screw around, i should have, you know, ended it. >> given where your life has ended up now, the question i'm really asking is whether you regret the course of events? forget your behavior for a moment or whether you wish you had never been unfaithful and were still with sandra. how do you honestly feel? >> i wouldn't go back and change things, you know. in a way i'm glad stuff happens. i'm not happy i hurt her and hurt so many people around her and my family and everybody else. i would never want to put anybody through that again. but i'm a firm believer that things happen in life to teach us a lesson. there is obviously someone who thought, you know, i was a

strong [ bleep ] to put this kind of adversity on me, you know, and push me to my -- damn near to my breaking point. things are i think better now. you know, there's some sadness there and some regret and guilt, sorrow and every negative emotion you can imagine. i don't think -- you know, i mean, god. how do you -- you know, if i could go back through my whole life and not make all the mistakes i would make, sure. yeah. i would be a perfect person. >> i got as far as the very early part of the book where i start reading how your father hit you. >> mm-hmm. >> punched you. not talking about just a smacked bottom or something. this is like -- >> i probably deserved it. i was a pretty bad kid. >> but a proper punch is different, isn't it? >> i think getting punched in the face by my dad was like, whoa, there is a lot of hate

there. that wasn't love. >> horrible. i hated reading it. >> yeah. it sucked, you know? >> why was he like that? why was he so angry do you think? >> i think it was probably learned behavior. people are taught everything, you know? he probably learned it from someone else or his dad or someone in his family. you know, i don't think that stuff comes out of the blue. i think there was problems with probably substance abuse and stuff like that. you know, i don't really blame him for his actions. you know, my dad -- you know, i still love my dad. he's like the white fred sanford. you know? he was a great guy. we were buddies when i was growing up. i just think that kids was an afterthought. it wasn't a priority. it was like, oh, [ bleep ], i've got kids. you know? it didn't control his actions. >> did he ever apologize to you for hitting you? >> no. >> do you think he should? >> no.

i don't think so. i think i'm cool with it. you know, it's the dichotomy of me. it made me who i am. made me strong. made me never do that to my kids. so, you know. >> your big dream was to be a footballer. you had real talent, but partly, i think -- >> now real football. not the kickball like you guys play. >> you big guys wearing the padding and helmets, unlike ours. to be serious this was a dream of yours and you were talented. reading the book you drift into a life of crime, partly because of the abuse you're getting at home. >> i think i was clinging to anything. i ching to the wrong friends and the wrong crowd. on the football field i was a disciplined soldier. i would kill for my coaches and do everything perfect. every drill, every practice, everything. i would be the first one there and the last to leave.

as soon as football season ended, i didn't have any structure. i would just get in trouble, steal stuff, get in fights. you know, football was basically my family. that was my family structure and family life. i think that's why i have the work ethic i have. i like teamwork and leadership. it's because of football. >> the crime escalate to the extent that really at a crucial time in your football career you end up in jail. >> mm-hmm. >> you carried out some form of armed robbery. >> mm-hmm. >> when you think back to what you were doing, do you recognize the man that you were then, the young man? >> yeah. i think it was foolish. if i could go back and change any one thing in my life, i would go back and get the scholarship to any of the hundred school that is recruited me. >> you think going to jail ruined that? >> oh, yeah, totally.

i was in jail for 90 days and all the college scouts showed up at my high school to meet me two weeks after the season was over. my couch couldn't lie. hey, where's jesse? we want to mee him and see how fast he runs the 40-yard dash and all that stuff. he had to tell them, hey, i was in jail. >> when you were in jail, what were you thinking? >> it was sad. you know, i think it was -- i felt probably the most alone i have felt in my life. i didn't really have a lot of family to speak of. i just had the friends i made in there, you know. man, i'm glad i did it. i think it kind of -- >> aside from the mundanity of jail life, aside from you and your values as a human being -- because you didn't go back to jail. you managed to get out of the

cycle. when you were in there you must have been thinking, this is not a life i want to lead? >> i think my senior year in high school when i missed over a hundred days of the year and almost didn't graduate. i had to go to summer school to get my diploma and missed out on college scholarships. i had to go to junior college which was like a put-down to me because i was such a highly recruited player and i had to go to a small school like where all the screw-ups go. it said, hey, i have to take care of business, you know, and not do it again. got to get a job, get responsible. >> how hard was it to get a job when you have done time? not easy, is it? >> well, i was a juvenile. it wasn't really doing time. it was 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. it wasn't really like convict time. so i'm not minimizing it, but i don't think when you're 18 or anything like that, i don't

think people -- they don't look at a guy who moves furniture for a furniture store, you're not looking at his record. >> let's take a break. when we come back, i want to talk about this bizarre career move you made into becoming -- i think bizarre, given where you have come from, to become a rock star body guard. >> cool. ♪ [ male announcer ] in 2011, at&t is at work, building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity, and investing billions of dollars to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call to the most advanced data download, we're covering more people in more places than ever before in an effort to give you the best network possible. at&t. rethink possible.

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possible side effects include headache, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. other serious stomach conditions may still exist. talk to your doctor about nexium. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. my special guest tonight is jesse james. jesse, you started doing various odd jobs. then you meet producer rick ruben. he takes you under his wing. one of your first jobs is doing security for his bands including flava flav and your specific task is to stop him from smoking crack during performances. >> not during performances. he was recording an album. rick was doing public enemy's album. they had me drive around, follow him, make sure he didn't buy crack from anyone in l.a. for a week. >> the big break, the thing you really loved was motor bikes. >> mm-hmm.

>> tell me how you got into it and realized i can make proper money at this. >> i never did it about the money. when i was on the road with bands like late '80s, early '90s i spent most of the time in europe. i started going to every motorcycle shop i could all over england, france, germany and scandinavia. i started putting together, hey, i want to build motorcycles. when i was off the road, you know, i would work on my bikes. i always had a project going at home. you know, i just kind of -- that's what i loved. i loved building stuff. >> you not only made a living. you got a tv show, "monster garage," which became a huge hit. >> mm-hmm. >> the downside for you, and again you're very honest about this, you got married at this stage, but you're pretty devoted to this new business of yours and the marriage falls apart. >> i was married to the shop first and foremost. you know, i was married to west coast choppers for 17 years.

anything else was secondary. >> you get remarried to a porn star, janine, who is abusive to you. >> mm-hmm. >> that's where when i read the book i start to see the seeds, perhaps, of a lot of the problems that follow you later. you have been punched by your father. you get beaten up by this adult entertainment star wife of yours. >> i think that's what was going -- you know, that relationship was going to what i know. the chaos and everything was exactly what i grew up with. i'm going to what i'm comfortable with. >> you were drawn to it. >> i didn't see it like -- that seemed like home to me. soon after that, sandy walked into my life and it was like the complete opposite of janine. you know? stable. has her own job and is well-spoken and kind of america's sweetheart.

you know, the typical girl next door and compared to something that was chaos i was like, wow, that's what i need. that's the kind of person i need to be with. you know? >> when you first get together with sandra, tell me about the early days. where did you meet her? >> i met her at the shop. she brought her godson in to meet me who was a big fan of like the shop and "monster garage." >> you're not a likely couple, if you don't mind me saying that. when i first saw you together i thought you were clearly -- you know, exactly what you portray in the book. you're a bad boy with tattoos, used to being a security guy at concerts. >> well, wait a minute. >> she's america's little sweetheart. you're not a natural fit. >> well, you can't pick and choose who you want to be with. when you fall in love with someone and it happens. >> was it love at first sight for you? >> i think it was for me, to a

certain extent. i don't know. there was a courtship and we fell in love. you know, it was kind of -- it's pretty well-documented. >> yeah. that's been how your life's been ever since. >> yes, yeah. >> you entered the goldfish bowl when you get together with a movie star, especially one of the biggest movie stars in the world, your life is no longer private. >> i have been like that since junior high school. i have been a person people like to tell stories about and talk about. i'm kind of used to it. >> like a magnet for gossip. >> yeah. i'm always the guy that everyone wants to fight. i'm always the person people talk smack about. >> when you started going out together, as i say, you're an unlikely couple. what do you think made it work for so long? what were the things you had in common? >> definitely the kids and our like interests and, you know -- i don't know.

i really loved her. i'm trying to look back now at what the one thing was that made it work. i can't name any one thing. >> when you asked her to marry you after six months, that's quite quick. >> mm-hmm. >> you must have been sure that this was the one for you. >> i was pretty sure. >> did any part of you think you've got a devil on your shoulder, given everything you have been through before, did you worry that although it seemed normal and nice and perfect for you, your personality doesn't allow that kind of thing? >> i don't think i had a devil on my shoulder or something like that. i think myself, like, i had no business being in a relationship with anyone. it could have been sandy, janine, carla or anyone. it would have never worked. >> why? >> because the problem was with me. it wasn't with them or the

relationship or anything. you know, i never thought highly of myself or never loved myself. i was never comfortable in my own skin. you know? i was still trying to, like, put up this big front of, like, you know, i'm a bad ass bike builder, body guard, football player, any of the stuff i have tried to put out there. to try to maintain a relationship with someone when i don't like myself was doomed from the start. >> we're going to take a break. when we come back, i want to talk to you about the scandal that broke involving you and sandra. >> awesome. lient, every time, no exceptions, no excuses. maybe that's why j.d. power and associates ranked us "highest in customer satisfaction in the united states." so, we thought we'd take a little time to celebrate. ♪ all right, then, back to work helping clients. outstanding client service. just one more example of how everything we do

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to my husband, there is no -- there is no surprise that my work got better when i met you because i never knew what it felt like for someone to have my back. so thank you. [ applause ] >> i'm with jesse james. that's painful to watch for me and i hardly know sandra. i met her once in my life. i think everyone watching it feels for her every time they see it because clearly she doesn't know what's coming. you didn't know what was coming but you knew what you were doing. when you watch that and it was her at the golden globes just before i saw you at the oscars, what do you think watching that back now? >> it makes me sad. it's sad that i -- not for myself, but for her to put her through what i put her through. >> do you hate yourself for doing that? >> i think i have forgiven

myself for what i have done, you know. >> has she forgiven you? >> i think so. i think she's in a place of forgiveness. you know, i mean, it sucks to have these kind of problems that millions of couples have and everyone has but on such a global level, you know, because, you know, everything played out. you know, it was like wildfire. it played out in the media in such a horrible way, you know, like which -- you know, seemed kind of unfair to me at a point, but, you know, i stood up like a man and took it on the chin. >> aren't you completely to blame? i mean, is the life of being with a big hard-working movie star all it's cracked up to be? can it be lonely to be that guy? >> i don't know. well, for everything that happened, i'm 100% to blame. you know, i take full

accountability for my actions. no one was holding a gun to my head to do what i did. >> i want to read you an extract from the book you wrote about the moment you tell sandra. it was very powerful, this. sandy came in and sat down on the chair. i closed the door after her and sat down myself. we staerd at each other and finally i told her the truth, the admitted the affair. i let her know i had never loved this woman, never cared for her. sandy asked why i had done it but i had no answer for her. what do you think when you hear it back? >> it just takes me back to that day. it was sad. you know, it's tough to tell somebody -- someone that you love it's tough to tell them something when you know when you tell them you're never going to see them again. >> you knew it? >> i was pretty sure. >> did she have any inkling about what was going on? >> i think there were some

suspicions which were right on her part. you know, i think she was -- you know, it came out of left field. you know, she wasn't ready for it or anything like that. >> you say in the book you heard a voice in your mind, get out of this while you still can. >> yeah. i think, you know, i knew it was an internal struggle. i think turning to, like, infidelity or something to, you know, either stroke my ego or whatever it was. you know, i don't think it was a decision i made, you know, 100% willingly or vindictively or anything like that. it was a struggle. it made me feel worse than before it happened. >> sandra is a pretty private person. >> mm-hmm. >> how has she been about the book? >> i don't know.

i don't really talk to her. >> you don't talk to her at all? >> nope. >> literally nothing? >> nothing. >> when was the last time you spoke to her? >> several months ago. >> how do you know she's forgiven you? >> well, she told me before that she forgives me. >> do you think she understands you better perhaps than other people do? >> i think so. well, i don't know about other people. there are probably people i'm closer to now than i ever was to her. you know. >> your current partner? >> i think so. >> really, that's interesting. why do you think that is? have you changed? >> i think so. i think i was willing to do the hard work and take a look at the stuff i never wanted to look at or the stuff i wanted to ignore, stuff i talk about in the book. you know, with kat i have a partner that's like -- we're connected on a higher level.

>> on a superficial level i look at kat and i look at you and i see a perfect fit. you're both covered in tattoos. she's a rock chick. you like your bikes. i get that. given your previous partners and then kat now, sandra seems like a weird time in your life that was never going to work. >> and that's a question to ask, you know. was it just my ego? was it me trying to be a big shot, like, oh, i'm jesse james. i'm a bad mother [ bleep ] and i can have a movie star for a wife? >> was it that? >> i think it was my ego and it was my ego why i hurt her and why i didn't just leave when i should have. my ego said, i need this wife so i'm cool or people like me or whatever, which is the bad recipe for anything. you should follow your heart and

what's really right for you. meeting someone like kat -- not meeting her. we were friends for a long time and friends and mutual respect. i think maybe that was the problem. i don't think sandy and i were ever really friends. we went right into a relationship, then marriage. then right into that and never really friends. kat and i seem to be connected on such a higher level. we have such a deeper understanding of each other and, you know, outlook on the world and stuff like that. man, she's a bad ass, too. you think i'm bad and i'll browbeat you. you should interview her. she'll scare the hell out of you. >> one of the things about, i guess, when you marry a movie star and it goes wrong, the last place you want to be is hollywood. suddenly you were in the world and then bang. you're the bad guy everybody hates.

>> well, you know, hey. the first press statement i said that i deserve everything bad that's coming my way. i stand behind that. you know? this book is coming out this week. people will take another opportunity to, like, say bad stuff and make up stories and whatever. let them. i don't really care anymore. i can be the villain and she'll always be america's sweetheart. >> i want to take a short break and talk about the worst time for you when it hit rock bottom after this and how you came back from it. >> cool. call her. ok. [ cellphone rings ] hey. you haven't left yet. no. i'm boarding now... what's up? um...would you mind doing it again? last time. [ engine turns over ] oooohhhh...sweet.

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trying to get an autograph from you, please. hey, don't block me, man. >> let her get out. >> watch out. >> that sounded good. >> that was paparazzi madness for you and sandra at the height of your relationship in the public glare. >> mm-hmm. >> as you said before the break, afterwards it was worse than you thought it would be when it all came out. at its absolute worst what were you going through? >> i think the stuff is just trying to protect the kids.

i'm a dad first and foremost and trying to protect the kids from, you know, anything, you know, like, you know, women reporters like waiting outside my house so they can right in front of my 6-year-old daughter asking me if i'm a nazi and asking me how many whores i have been with and stuff like that in front of my kids. it's just like, you know, freedom of speech. i can't really stop them. it just was bad. i think i started -- you know, my initial reaction would be to, like, just, you know, let them have it. not the women but some of the more aggressive male paparazzi. one of the guys that sat in front of my house for months was the guy that mike tyson knocked out. the guy's just relentless. just saying -- they are trying to get me to hit them. that's those guys' dream for me to like attack them. >> the paparazzi, media, tabloid

tv, all that kind of things, it kind of goes with the territory. i'm not going to defend all their practices and some go over the top, but, of course, it is chicken and the egg. if you hadn't given them a juicy bone to gnaw on, they wouldn't be there. >> yeah. i totally get that, but when it's day in and day out for six months or four months or whatever and i can't -- there is nowhere to hide. i go from my house, take the kids to school and to the shop. that's the three places i go for months and they are waiting at all three places. >> when you went to the newsstand and saw endless magazine covers absolutely pillorying. >> i never went to a newsstand. >> you were not the most popular guy in america. lots of people, particularly women hated you for what you had done, as you say, to america's sweetheart. >> i think those people barely liked me anyway. >> do you care now what they think? >> i couldn't care less. honestly, i couldn't care less.

some of the stuff they said like calling me a nazi and stuff like that, which is like, you know, it was just so outlandish. >> they called you that because you wore nazi memorabilia. >> so did the prince of your country. >> true, he did. >> is he a nazi? >> no, i don't believe he is. >> neither am i. >> have you ever had nazi sympathies? >> no. >> nothing? >> no. i have jewish relatives. i have been to israel. i would never sympathize with anybody that's persecuted and, you know, nazis were pure evil. >> why pose like that? >> it was a joke. it was obviously done at my house. it was done a decade ago. you know, i think whatever magazine ran it, they made it sound like it was taken that week the way they worded the article. you know, it's a business. they paid $200,000 for that shot. >> you don't collect nazi

memorabilia? >> no. i collect german cars like world war ii-era volkswagens. i have collected them since high school. >> do you think some people may put that together with a picture and get the wrong idea about you? >> if you wanted to point to anything and find some, like, racism or anti-semitism or anything if you really looked at it long enough you could build up whatever scenario you have. but do the math. i was born in south central l.a. and i grew up in an all black, all hispanic neighborhood. i was the only white kid. i was the one discriminated against. i would never -- i grew up around people that were racists and bigots and told myself i would never be that way no matter what. >> if sandra is watching, which she might well be, how would you feel towards her, listening to the way that you talked about her?

>> uh, talked about her or -- >> yeah. >> um -- >> you have been pretty frank. >> well, there is still a level of respect for her. i wouldn't say anything ever despairage -- despairaging. it's a fine line between me wanting to promote a book that's my life story and not hurt feelings that i have already hurt enough. you know, i don't want to hurt her anymore. i don't want her family, anybody in my family or anybody else to go through any more pain, but i wanted to tell my story. i'm not going to hide. i think i have a pretty viable tv career. i'm good at what i do. i'm going to continue to do it. you know? i made mistakes and it's up to me to move past it. >> another break and when we come back, i want to talk about you as a father and all of the children involved in this. web browsing

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i'm don lemon. here are the headline this is hour. the crest of the flooding mississippi river has now reached natchez, mississippi, about 100 miles north of baton rouge, louisiana. the water is not expected to rise but it's not expected to go down either. stressed levees may have to hold up for weeks more. health officials warn the floodwaters are extremely dangerous with e. coli levels up to 200 times higher than normal. herman cane tossed his hat into the ring for the presidential race. the former ceo of godfather's pizza and former radio talk show host is the fourth republican to officially jump into the race. the international space station took an unusual call. benedict xvi became the first pope to speak to astronauts in space. he e pressed his concern to mark

kelly after his wives a wounded in an attempted assassination. i'm don lemon keeping you informed. cnn, the most trusted name in news. take it foa terive, see that's stealing.rence: s i say it's sampling. what do you think? gecko: yeah, um, listen clarence, i can't really speak to the moral bit, but if you switch to geico, you could save hundreds of dollars on yinsurance. you could buy a whole heap of grapes. how's that? vo: geico.cosa yo% more insurance. you could save hundreds of dollars on yinsurance.

check out mine. i just got my new trim piece. >> oh! >> look at my new pipe. >> look at my el camino. it's now got a hole where everything was.

does that make me a bad person? 402 cubic inch four barrel carb. that's the real deal. >> that was jesse james in "monster garage." >> monster what? >> monster garage we call it. >> garage. >> that's the first time i have heard it called that. >> now, tell me about the people i guess who matter most in all of this. certainly reading the book i got the sense that you appreciate that. that's all the children involved. let's start with the baby you adopted with sandra. that seems a particularly difficult situation to deal with now. >> well, i don't think so much now because i have come to grips with the reality of it and the situation that i can't control.

i think once i did that, it kind of became less painful. >> are you allowed to see the child? >> i never saw him. >> since you left? >> yep. >> how long has that been now? >> it's been a year. >> that must be hurtful, isn't it? >> well, i think it will always be a source of pain. i hope some day when he grows up that he knows that, you know, he had a good dad or still has one. if the opportunity to be part of his life presents itself, i will step up. >> have you tried to get access? >> yes. >> it's been denied to you? >> yes. >> on what grounds? >> i don't know if grounds were given. if anything i think it's taught me i have to appreciate the three kids that i do have. >> i mean, they, in turn, presumably don't see sandra.

>> uh-huh. >> that must be hurtful and difficult for them. >> they also don't see their little brother, too. >> it's a horrible situation. >> well, i think any marriage that ends and kids are involved or some kind of trauma or infidelity or whatever, this is like real life in america or in the world playing itself out. there are always going to be people that are hurt. it's the by-product of poor decisions and bad actions. you know, i have done my best to like, you know, corral the situation and make sure my kids are happy, healthy and well cared for and taken care of in the best possible way and have a dad that's present every day. >> did they ask you why they can't see their little brother? >> they do. there are questions. i think it's the hardest for sunny.

you know, sandy was sunny's mom more than her real mom. you know, i'm left in the middle to explain. i think the older kids understand the situation and understand, hey, that's the definition of divorce. hey, she's gone. splitting. separation. you know? >> the finality of the picture you're painting suggests that sandra -- i mean, you may hope she's forgiven you but certainly nothing in this suggests that she wants much to do with you. it's hard to imagine when you watch the golden globes clip, when you look back at the oscars it was the greatest time of her career and it was all taken away and she was exposed to relentless humiliation. there's not many things worse for a woman and to do it all in the public lair. if you put yourself in her shoes -- >> well, i don't think it's any different than a normal housewife that gets cheated on

that, you know, gets in the public glare of her three-block radius because that's what her life means. you know? i think it's all in perspective. you know. and -- you know. i know i did bad stuff so, you know, i'm fully accountable for that. >> we're going to final break. when we come back i want to talk to you about "celebrity apprentice" where we first met and about the new love of your life. >> cool. lexus holds its value better than any other luxury brand.

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i will say this, that piers couldn't figure you out. he didn't get it. piers didn't like the fact that you could have raised a lot of money and you didn't. so jesse, you're fired, great job. >> that was the metropolitan -- moment you got fired on "celebrity apprentice." >> you take pride in that, don't you? >> you kind of deserved it, didn't you? >> that's the second time -- job i have been fired from. the first was for punching a customer. >> i admired what you were saying in the sense that you were entering it independently, you didn't want to rely on sandra's money. had i known what i know now, i would have been less keen to see sandra's money headed your way for the show. but at the time -- >> you hollywood people and your perception of like, hey, let's

get free money from movie people or whatever. that's not the real world. the real world is that people work their asses off for 50 hours a week and get a paycheck or make something and hand it to someone and get paid for it. that's how the real world is. >> you weren't in the real world, you were in fantasy world. you were married to a movie star making -- >> i was still working every day at my shop, like a dog, like seven days a week. >> you could have won "the apprentice" if you had raised more money. >> yeah, but, i don't know, that's the easy way. looking for a handout. >> your new lady kat von d is a famous tattoo artists. >> do you get freebies? >> yeah, i get 50% off. >> you love your tootoos, you don't you? >> i like it. it's like doodling. i see myself without tattoos and it's like a coloring book that wasn't colored in. i hate it.

>> you've already discussed why you think you're better suited to her, are you engaged? >> yes. >> are you married? because you've got a wedding ring on. >> she had me a ring made and gave it to me, so i'm wearing it. but we're not married yet. >> when are you planning to get married? >> i don't know pretty soon. >> you're a brave man, this is number four, right? >> yeah. i've been married for like 20 years if you add them all together. >> are you an incurable romantic? >> no, i think i'm not a quitter and i'm not -- you know, i still believe in love and romance and, you know, she's just awesome. i think me wanting to get married a fourth time, it's not about me, it's about how amazing that woman is. >> do you believe you may have found true love? >> i think so. i have never felt the way i do for anyone the way i feel for her. i have never had that feeling and i have never had someone like have my back, 100%, you know?

and stick by me when everyone turned their back. and she says [ bleep ] it, i'm your friend and i stand by. i don't care what anybody says. and i think that's the definition of, like, what people that care about each other should be. >> the irony is that sandra said exactly that, that she felt that's what you were to her. >> she didn't say exactly that. >> pretty much. she said you were the rock. >> yeah, but she said that same speech at four different awards shows. you saw two of them. >> what's your point? >> i don't know, you can take out of it whatever you get out of it, you know. >> you don't think she meant it? >> um, i think she meant it to a certain extent, you know. what does she do for a living? >> movie star. an actor. >> what? >> an actor. >> okay, cool. >> you think it was an act? >> i think people have to live

in that world. >> are you glad to be out of it? >> man, 100%. i just can't like -- i just, you know, i don't know. i don't know how i survived in there as long as i did. because it's just like, i mean, you're cool. but the rest of those people, i just can't hang with them. i just -- i don't know. >> are they all pretty fake? is that what you're saying? >> it's all pretend. it's not real. i'm the guy that goes to the shop and i don't hang out in the office, i go in the back and hang out with all the guys that are all greasy dirty. it's where i belong in this world and i don't belong trying to think that i'm some fancy, you know, because my wife is fancy, that makes me fancy. it's just bull [ bleep ]. >> and yet that's kind of why you went into the relationship, to listen to you earlier.

>> yeah, i think so, it was a lot of ego and a lot of perception of what i thought i should have and not what i needed. i think it was more of a testament of what i felt about myself. >> do you think you're capable now of being faithful? >> i think so. i think it's something that's like a conscious, day to day, you know, thought process and, you know, i think i'm vocal with kat that if i don't get something that i'm needing or some kind of affection or whatever, and vice versa, both of us are committed to work on our relationship together, and make sure we're 100% what each of us want for each other. i have never had a partner that did that. it's always been either my way or the highway or something like that. and, man, she's like, she's committed to being everything i want her to be and same here. i love her like crazy,