compound, near karachi or somewhere, would you tell the americans? >> i would like to take action. why would i tell the americans? intelligence has always been cooperating. so to locate a person, it would always mean isi and cia together. so they would know already. and if they don't know, yes, indeed, i would like to inform them but capture himself. >> mr. president, thank you very much indeed. here's anderson cooper with "ac 360." >> piers, thank you very much. good evening. breaking news tonight in the search for victims in the joplin tornado. i want to show you remarkable new video showing the initial moments after the tornado struck, video captured by a couple racing to find a family member, a brother looking for his sister through a neighborhood which after the tornado they barely even recognized. >> oh, look at this. oh, my gosh. oh, my gosh.

oh, my gosh, aaron. oh, my gosh. >> it went right through here. i don't know where we are. >> i don't know where to go. >> we got to keep going this way. don't step on any of this. come on. >> i feel like i need help. >> we'll keep asking. come on. >> you guys okay? >> yeah. >> oh, my gosh! look at these houses, babe.

>> you guys okay? >> yes. >> what street is this? >> i don't know. >> oh, babe, look. >> what? >> oh, no. it's the hospital. >> it was the hospital. show you more of that video. everything is so destroyed, you can't even tell where you are. they went to find her sister, sarah. you'll really want to see how it ends. last night, the governor of missouri said there would be changes in the search for the missing. today we saw the start of those changes. the state took over a large portion of the disaster response. releasing the official roster of people missing or unaccounted for. i have the roster right here. remember for days we've been saying 1,500 unaccounted for based on a local official statement days ago. today after working all night, the state got that number down

to 232 people unaccounted for. but even officials concede the list contains errors. lantz hare is on it twice. the situation at the morgue in joplin and the process for identifying the dead, you remember we spoke to lantz hare's dad, mike, who has been searching and calling his son's cell phone. >> i started calling him and still never got anything. i called it all last night. >> you're still calling his number? >> i can't stop. i don't know why. i sat until like 2:00 last night and that's all i did. >> called his cell phone. does it ring? >> it rang for the first day and a half, and now it goes straight to voice mail. but just in case he gets it, i want him to know his dad loves him.

>> today, the family got word that lantz is dead. it turns out he's been in the morgue all along. his family got word through a friend in law enforcement who had access to the morgue. if the friend hadn't done that, it's likely the family would not know where he is. we learned of 16-month-old skyular. he has been in the morgue, too. his family only found out late yesterday only because of a friend of a friend showed them morgue photos of a small child. both families are heart broken but at least they know, they know where their child is. what's frustrating, however, to other families is that both found out about their kids unofficially by back channels. other families said to us, why can't their families have someone visit the morgue and check for their loved ones? of course, some identifications can only be made by dna, but

some will be recognizable. every official that we met in joplin has been working incredibly hard and trying to do the right thing under very, very difficult circumstances. but some of the explanations for the delays and the red tape and the rules haven't made much sense to people searching for their loved ones and some people in joplin continue to be frustrated. tonight, the breaking news is that the local coroner tells cnn that starting tomorrow, some people under some circumstances will be allowed into the morgue to view remains. gary tuchman is in joplin tonight with the latest. gary, what are you hearing now? the state of missouri took charge of this missing personal's list today. what do we now know about people's access to go to the morgue? >> reporter: right now, as of this moment, they have no access to go to the morgue. that may change tomorrow. more on that in a second. you said it yourself, anderson, people are working very hard here. but what we've seen in this disaster is an unusual amount of a lack of compassion and common sense among many of the people

here. and the case in point is the 16-month-old boy. he's missing for three days. i interviewed his father just yesterday. his father in a hospital bed, he was seriously injured in the tornado. his son was with him. he was convinced his son was still alive. i just want to get into the morgue, or get some pictures so we know for sure. but they wouldn't let them in the morpg. two hours after i interviewed his father, a friend of a friend got them access to two pictures of toddlers in the morgue. one of the pictures was of their son skyular. so they're 95% sure he passed away, but not 100%, because they can't get in the morgue as of yet. so the coroner does say, starting tomorrow, people, some people will be able to go into the morgue. but it's not clear if that will happen because we're not sure where the governor stands on the issue. >> i asked him this a couple of times. this just broke as we were interviewing the governor, so

we'll show you his reaction and try to get the latest information. last night the governor said he would do something about the problems we've been seeing with people, with the slow access, with kind of disorganization. it does seem like he has delivered on that promise. i mean, within a few hours of getting new people in there to take over, they suddenly got this list down to 232. >> reporter: right. the governor is doing some good work. but i can tell you it's much lower, because we saw family of five on the list. how could a family of five be mising? the house wasn't badly damaged. so we know that number will go lower. the morgue, where these bodies are right now, is a secret morgue, and it is secret. you call up officials and say, where is the morgue? and they tell you it's a morgue.

we had to do some investigating, and so we found the morgue after some investigating and i want to show you this strange encounter we had on a public road with law enforcement officials that felt like we were crossing an international border without a passport. >> guys, what are you doing? >> we're with cnn. >> you guys got any cameras? >> yes, we do. >> why is that? >> they need to be secured in the back of your vehicle. >> is there secret activity going on here? >> you can't be around here is all. >> why? >> this is private property. you're in the middle of the road, you're a danger to yourself. take your cameras and put them in the back of the vehicle. >> we want to find out a baby in the back of the morpg. >> is h shooting back there? take that camera and put it in

the back of your car. >> go ahead and go. >> don't come back. >> he told us "don't come back." the police officer opened our door and i was afraid he was going to arrest our cameraman. that's when he turned off the camera. we don't usually hear that from the good guys in the blue. >> i understand why they're concerned about people going to this morgue and creating drama. i want to play for our viewers what the coroner said on eliot spitzer's show earlier tonight, just to get a sense for people who may be listening. let's play what the coroner said. >> what i just stepped out of a meeting at missouri southern state university with a group of family members, and they expressed their concerns of just the concerns i've listened to tonight, and the decision was made if a person can make a

positive i.d. with let's say for instance piercings or tattoos, a lot of people told us they would have a specific tattoo that nobody else would have, tomorrow we're going to start the process of allowing those people to view the bodies of the loved ones if we can make a positive i.d., we're going to go ahead and release those bodies. >> so that's what the coroner said to eliot spitzer. gary, i guess we're going to have to wait and see tomorrow what exactly the situation is. as you know, gary, i talked to the governor while that conversation was airing on his show. i was speaking to the governor in a pretaped interview. when we spoke last night, he promised action. the governor has delivered. the state's department of public safety has taken over the search for the missing. the governor ordered in some 20 or so officers to get things

sorted out. and it took them just a couple hours to witle down the estimated 1,500 unaccounted to a list of 232 people. so i spoke to him a short time ago and asked him how that effort is going and also about these frustrations about what we've been hearing about the situation in the morpg. governor, last night you said your administration was going to take more direct control. it already has. just this morning, you guys basically have taken over the effort, the state has taken over the effort to locate the missing. the actual number of missing has been reduced from 1,500. so there's already changes afoot. what's the latest from your vantage point? >> we did see that challenge, that list of 1,300 was out there from a myriad of sources. we took control of that and brought folks in, they got that down to 232. this evening, had a meeting with all of those families to go through the processes of the necessary identification.

our goal is obviously to get the zero, move down off 232 to zero. unfortunately, some of those stories are going to be very sad. but we have made significant progress today towards taking away that uncertainty and we're working all day and all night to finish that task. >> you do know this list of 232 obviously some of these people are going to be alive. according to the a.p., the first person on the list, sally adams, is actually alive, they've confirmed this. she was in an article that she survived the storm. so this 232 number, you're going to quickly try to whittle that down even more? >> absolutely. we had over a dozen folks able to get off that list late this morning. that's good news when you can find folks, that they're unaccounted for, and we got these facts out publicly. we want to whittle that down. but there's also some very, very sad stories on that list. we expect some of those folks to

be found in a condition that's no longer living. >> we're still hearing a lot of anger about the situation in the morgue. gary tuchman, our correspondent, just reported on a family member who's been shown a picture of her 16-month-old nephew, deceased. for days, the family hasn't known whether he was alive or not. turns out skylar is in the morgue. she was shown that picture through unofficial channels, yet they have not been allowed in to see the body and receive confirmation that he is in fact dead. how is that possible? >> that's one of the reasons we moved to have all 232 of the folks that were missing, the folks that have made those reports in a private meeting with the folks at the morgue. but it's also important to note that this was an incredible storm, and this is not a series of bodies lying in a row that are easily identifiable. there are pieces of folks. there are very, very difficult scenes. it's not as easy as walking down

a row and being able to instabltly identify. the dna matches, unfortunately a significant number are going to be necessary to confirm that. it's a reality of a storm of this magnitude that's done this level of damage. >> but grant it that no doubt about it, and obviously one wants to wait for dna, but in the meantime, they've been saying that might take two weeks. it doesn't seem reasonable to expect a grieving family to just be told to sit on their hands for two weeks. there are plenty of family members who would be willing to take on the onerous task of walking down that row and even if the sights are horrible, i know plenty of family members who want that opportunity very badly. >> well, as i said before, when we got a sense yesterday that the information wasn't moving quickly enough, we came in and took over that operation and seen a dramatic shift today,

going from an up known list of 232 to a list of 232 confirmed folks and moving off that number already today, setting up and having a meeting with the morgue, with all of these families to go through that process. >> but it does seem like families who are lucky enough to have a friend in law enforcement who is able to get into the morgue, like lantz hare, his father has been on my program weeping, he was spending what money he could to drive to springfield to look into a hospital there. turns out his son has been dead in the morgue this whole time, and a family friend, who is a law enforcement officer, was able to get in and see that it was in fact lantz because he knows the boy well and he told the family that their son is in fact dead and in the morgue. and still there's been no official confirmation of that. that just doesn't seem right that a family that luckily enough has a connection is able to find information and get confirmation and a family that doesn't has to wait two weeks. isn't there some way to speed

this up and not just have it be relying on dna to allow families access? >> this has been an unmistakable tragedy, almost unimaginable for this community. it's ripped apart families in so many ways. as i said before, when we got the sense there was challenges yesterday morning, we acted and moved to accelerate dramatically the process. and it's hard to say we had a good day when you're identifying remains of folks that have been killed. as i said to you, anderson, right here in joplin yesterday, i think you'll see a significant change. when folks got up this morning, they saw a focused effort towards getting that information out. there's no desire to hide this vital information from these folks in any way, shape or form and we're pressing with the resources we have and additional resources to make sure that we get that information out as quickly as possible. >> i understand the local coroner just told cnn tonight

that beginning tomorrow people will be able to get into the morgues and identify bodies. can you confirm that? will you support that? >> we're going to continue to move that number down and continue to move forward. there are some very difficult moments ahead for this community. and it's a very difficult process. and i just want everybody to know that the folks that we've got in there are working as quickly as they can to be sure and to get that information out to those families that are so in need. >> i'm just not clear. again, i don't want to push you on this, but i'm not clear. does that mean you -- if in fact the coroner has said people can go, you would support that or you're not sure at this time and you need to check with him and get back to us? >> i don't need to check with anybody. i know that there's people as this process has moved forward have had access and will continue to have access. that being said, as the day has moved on, more people have had access to the process. more people have gotten direct notification. but we believe that those people

deserve notification first, not by the governor talking on cnn. i'm going to continue to move a process that focuses on the personal rights and liberties of those individuals and get that information out as quickly as i can. >> i think i got the answer on that. i appreciate your time. it's been a long day for you. >> thank you very much. >> we continue to do what we can to help people reconnect with their missing loved ones. in addition to sally adams, who is confirmed to be alive, good news to report about linda sweeten, she is safe tonight. still no word on robert bateson, 47 years old, who lived in the connecticut point apartments. he has a mountain scene tattooed on his back. if you see him, call 417-499-7177. and 74-year-old patricia dawson. she and robert bateson on the official list of missing.

call 417-880-0046. her daughter-in-law tells us today, it was the first day her family did not go to her apartment site to search. they've given the morgue a description and are waiting for word, hoping. the search goes on for will norton. people are asked to assemble tomorrow morning 8:00 a.m. local time at billingsley hall. please call 757-751-9455 with any information about him or e-mail findwillnorton. follow us on facebook or twitter. up next, some of the video we showed you earlier taken after the tornado. we want to show you the complete piece of video as a brother searches for his sister. >> sarah, mike! >> sarah, mom.

>> we'll show you how the video ended. you don't want to miss it. new allegations against the gadhafi regime. this is a disturbing story. it's stunning, not perhaps surprising. but according to some confirmed reports and some video evidence that a reporter has seen in misurata, his troops are engaging in systematic rape. mass rape. we're going to talk to one of the few correspondents still on the ground in misurata who has seen the video. video that stunned here. we'll be right back. building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity, and investing billions of dollars to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call to the most advanced data download, we're covering more people in more places than ever before in an effort to give you the best network possible. at&t. rethink possible.

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or visit one of our local offices today, and we'll provide the coverage you need at the right price. liberty mutual auto insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? breaking news tonight. the coroner handling fatalities from the joplin tornado says that certain people with missing family members will be allowed in if they know of specific markings on the body of their loved one. we showed you video taken moments after the tornado struck, video unlike anything we've seen. a couple, brook mckenzie and aaron watts searching for aaron's sister in a neighborhood that was a neighborhood in name only. take a look. >> look at all this. >> you guys okay?

>> are you guys okay? >> yeah. >> holy crap! >> they raced to the home of aaron's sister, sarah. her house was badly damaged. look. >> sarah, mike! >> sarah, mike. mike, sarah! >> check the basement. >> sarah, mike? >> mike, sarah? >> you guys down here? >> mike? >> sis?

>> sarah? >> mike? >> they must have left. >> herbie, herbie. >> herbie jean. [ whistling ] >> come on. they're not in the basement? >> no, i don't think so. sarah, mike! >> they're not down there. >> you can't see anything. >> they did not find sarah at home but they did find sarah. aaron and sarah join me now. very nice to see both of you together. can you guys hear me? >> one, two, three, four. >> yes, sir. >> you can hear me? >> yes. >> all right, cool. it's great to see you guys together. aaron, what was going through your head when you grabbed the camera and ran outside? had you ever been through

anything like this before? >> nothing like this. i mean, i'm not sure anybody has with what they're saying about this kind of tornado. when we left the house, we had no idea it was like this. i took the camera thinking there would be some downed trees and stuff like that. but the time we had to abandon the car because of the debris, you realized the severity of everything and i already had the camera running. so we had it running as every block you went in deeper, the worse and worse it got and the severity of it set in. >> aaron, you had trouble figuring out where you were, even though it's a neighborhood you probably know very well. >> yeah. i've lived in joplin my entire life. you know, i've been to my sister's house obviously plenty of times. but everything was so leveled. you had no idea where you were. with the street signs gone, there was no houses, no trees, no nothing. it was just completely barren. so we kept having to ask people

where we were. even the people that lived on the streets were so dazed had a hard time telling us where we were. so it was a real struggle to find out where the heck we were. >> sarah, where did you ride out the storm? >> we were in the basement of our home. it was an old cellar. we just were watching tv, getting ready for dinner and heard the sirens go off. >> what was it like being in the basement hearing this storm? >> it was crazy. actually the only reason i know -- that i knew what was going on is because of tv and people saying it sounds like a train. it dawned on us when i said, oh, it sounds like a train going by, we realized what it was. when the pressure of our ears came, it felt like our ears were going to blow. this is when my fiance said, we're definitely in a trornld. >> aaron, how did you finally find sarah?

>> after we didn't find them at the house, we didn't know what to do. but people pointed us to the walgreen's saying that was where they had a triage center set up. they weren't there, so we started walking down main street, or what was left of main street, trying to get a cell phone signal, which was not x existent. finally we happened to walk into cell coverage and her fiance mike got a phone call through to us, saying they were at our p t parent's house and then the phone cut out. >> sarah, your cat kerby, is he okay? >> he's a little traumatized, but yeah, he's happy and ready to be getting back to usual. >> aaron, i'm told you're getting married in a couple of days and you managed to actually save the wedding dress. how did you do that? i know somebody else, the store

where the wedding dress was, was obliterated and their dress is gone. >> yes, sir. similar story. we're walking down main street, and this is after we found out they were okay. now we're trying to get ahold of our relatives and our other brother in town. we come across the alteration store and it's blown up. the roof is half on, the glass is all blown out. so my fiance realizes that's the alteration shop. so she crawls in through a broken window and she emerges a few minutes later with a big grip on her face and she said this was the only dress that was not on the floor or soaked and her dress was still in the white bag hanging and you see me walking with this giant white bundle and it's a wedding dress. >> that's incredible. are you holding the wedding in joplin? >> yes. it's the first united methodist

church, which is the fema headquarters right now too, i believe. >> well, that's a great -- i'm so glad you found each other and that everybody is okay. >> thank you. >> i wish you all the best. there's a lot of stories that have not ended happy, so nice to have one that has. have a great wedding. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> have a great time this coming up. later up tonight, we're going to take you to libya to the besieged town of misurata. we'll talk to a reporter who has a story that's just -- it's hard to hear, but it's an important story, evidence of systematic sexual abuse, sexual violence against young women by gadhafi forces. she has seen video proof of this taken by the soldiers on their cell phone cameras. later in "crime and punishment," jared lee loughner deemed not competent to stand

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for moms on this program, we followed the story of eman al obeidy who says she was gang rained by moammar gadhafi's soldiers. there are reports that her case was anything but an isolated one. that in fact gadhafi troops may

have at least in some cases been ordered to systematically rape young women and girls in misurata. a town that they were -- have been besieging for months and occupying, as well. the women, the young girls by and large are too scared to come forward. but there is cell phone videos, videos found on the phones of libyan soldiers. and marie colvin has seen one of these and i spoke to her a short time ago. marie, you have actually seen evidence of basically systematic rapes by gadhafi forces of civilians in misurata. what have you seep, what have you heard? >> reporter: there's no phones here, everybody has been literally -- virtually incarcerated in their homes, but i watched one of these videos and turned my stomach. there's no way to describe the

disgust i felt. it was four young women, probably about 16, into the early 20s, stripped in front of their parents and two little children. and then taken into a separate room by about 20 soldiers in uniform, and raped horrifically. and one point, one of them screams for god and one screams back "our god is gadhafi" and they raped these four young women repeatedly. >> how do we know this isn't just a group of thugs don't this? is there evidence that this is directed by officers, that this is somehow a part of their strategy? >> the direct evidence that i have is talking to one of gadhafi's soldiers who is a prisoner here, and repentant. and he said his two officers entered this house, this is a

different house, there's about a thousand rapes. >> a thousand rapes? >> reporter: entered this house -- about a thousand rapes across misurata over a two-month period. the officers raped the young women first. other members of the unit raped the young women in the house. they were standing guard, ordered to stand guard up on the roof. and their next order was to come down stairs and rape two young women. >> why would they being doing this? we've seen this in the congo where rape has become a weapon of war and it's an attempt to destroy society. what is the purpose here? >> reporter: it's very much a weapon of war is the way to put it, anderson. it's a weapon particularly in this very, very conservative society. this is -- it's not just the islamic faith, it's a conservative traditional society.

women who have been raped, sad to say, are unmarriageable. women who are married and raped bring shame on the family. so terrorizing and undermining the effectiveness of your enemy forces, that's a weapon of war and it's a war crime. >> is there treatment for any of these young girls? are they able to even come forward? >>women who have been raped are not -- i was not able to speak to them. they're shocked, traumatized. i have spoken to doctors who are being very sympathetic. there is sympathy for these women that has, first of all extended to some of the younger rebels, saying that they feel so guilty they did not get to these families in time to save the women of misurata, that they've offered to marry the young women, which would save them from a very lonely and blighted life. the doctors here are taking very practical steps to begin with,

trying to reach out to the community and get them treated initially for sexually transmissable diseases, and offering abortions. abortion is not legal here, but they see this as something they can do to, in some way, help these young women. and then counselling. they're in touch with some of the counselors and doctors who helped the rape victims of bosnia, where you had 50,000 rapes and a wave of suicides. that's what they're worried about here to begin with. >> it's incredible. marie, it's a hard thing to talk about and i appreciate you talking to us. thank you. >> good talking to us, anderson. still ahead, "crime and punishment." a major roadblock, a judge ruling that jared lee loughner isn't fit to stand trial. on the same day elizabeth smart's kidnapper was sent temsed to life in prison.

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"crime and punishment" tonight. two cases take different turns. in salt lake city, a judge sentenced brian david mitchell to life for kidnapping and raping elizabeth smart almost nine years ago. the state court found mitchellmemitchell

mentally ill. here's what she said later. >> i told brian david mitchell today in court that whether he received his just sentence here on earth or after this earth life, that one day he will have to be responsible. i was happy for the opportunity to say what i felt i needed to say. and i am thrilled it's over. >> in arizona, a judge ruled that jared lee loughner is not comp temperature to stand trial. loughner is charged with killing six people, wounding 13, including congresswoman gabrielle giffords. loughner is going to be re-evaluated in september when he's due back in court. remarkably, very different outcomes in two high profile

cases. i talked about both to jeffrey toobin and dr. sanjay gupta. sanjay, how do they determine if someone is mentally competent enough to stand trial? >> a psychiatrist and psychologist spent a lot of time with him over a period of a month, 18 hours of interviews. they were described with him mainly in bed with the cover up to his face and he was sort of rambling was how they described it. they looked at background information, got a good medical history, his try of substance abuse. at the end, they make some conclusions and these reports are submitted separately, it was my understanding, as well, to the judge. he did not seem to have the ability to understand the proceedings of the legal system. he had characteristics of paranoia and schizophrenia and both said he did not have any evidence that he was faking in any way, as well.

>> it relates to time. mentally competent to stand trial means right now. does he understand what's going on? insanity defense relates to his mental state at the time that the crime took place. so there's a lot of evidence in this case, apparently, that he was looking on the internet about possible penalties, what does it mean about solitary confinement, the death penalty. all of that would be relevant on the question of insanity, if that's what he winds up pleading. that has no relevance to the question of right now, is he fit to stand trial. >> even if he's a paranoid schizophrenic, could he still be that he's not insane at the time of the crime? >> that's right. they are separate judgments. all of these are very fuzzy legal categories. the legal system has struggled literally for centuries, since the 18th century, to try to define these terms like insanity. frankly it hasn't been very successful.

so the short answer is, it's very hard to be found not guilty by reason of insanity. we don't have a lot of people who get acquitted on those grounds, but it does happen occasionally. but the first step is you have to be found fit to stand trial. >> and right now, he's not fit to stand trial? >> that's right. and they'll come back in september. but this could go on for years. they could go on finding him not fit, but you don't get a free pass, like you are in custody and they keep making that evaluation. >> sanjay, if it's paranoid schizophrenia, there is medication. there are many people who are schizophrenics who live constructive lives and contribute to society by taking their medication. the he was able to take medication or forced to take medication, could he then be determined competent to stand trial? >> i think so and i think that's what the plan is. we just did a whole investigation into these sorts of things,mental illness in

particular. he has characteristics where he's lost touch with reality. he has delusional behavior, which can sometimes result in violent outbursts. but you're absolutely right. the psychiatric approach is that this could be treated, and i think you're right. jeffrey would know better than that, it's going to be forced. >> can somebody be forced? >> absolutely. and there's an interesting medical ethics question, because there are doctors who don't want to participate in this, because the goal of this treatment is to get him sane enough to go to go to trial where he may be executed and he's not going to be executed if he doesn't stand trial. so there's some doctors who say i don't want any part of this. what do you think, sanjay? you're a doctor, what would you think about thinking -- treating someone so that they could be well enough to maybe executed down the line? >> i think, and a lot of doctor

also have a differing opinion, but right now he's been treated -- diagnosed rather with a medical problem. a major medical problem. so i think the focus and the goal is to try and treat that existing medical problem. how the trial ends up, where exactly it goes from there, i think are probably, you know, less on the find of the doctors who are trying to say he has a diagnosed mental illness. we know how to treat this, we know some strategies. >> it's interesting, loughner reportedly had outbursts in court as did brian david mitchell. he was declared competent to stand trial. i remember talking to elizabeth smart's dad who felt he was faking it in the courtroom, you know, having these outbursts to seem like he was schizophrenic or had some sort ofmental instability. >> first of all, there's not a blood test or a brain scan that can conclusively diagnose some of the things we're talking about here. so these diagnoses are based on

lots of different things, including hours and hours of interviews and evaluation, all the background information, all of that. in the end, he was diagnosed with anti-social and narcissistic behavior. these are very different than loughner's case of paranoid schizophrenia. they felt while he had these behaviors, they were dangerous, he was able to understand what was going on. this was based on, again, professional evaluations that were done similar to what jared loughner had. >> these categories are hard to define and the judges struggle. it's not always an easy call. >> loughner's case goes back to the judge september 21st to see if his condition has changed. thank you very much. just want to give you a quick programming note. this sunday, sanjay is going to sit down with patrick kennedy.

that is saturday and sunday, 7:30 a.m. eastern time. ahead tonight, sarah palin is headed for washington. what's the former vice presidential candidate will be doing this time that is sending here there? plus, they land on the cover of magazines almost every week and tonight they're landing on our "ridicu-list." see what the kardashian sisters have done now. ♪ [ male announcer ] every day, thousands of people are choosing advil. here's one story. my name is lacey calvert and i train professional athletes with yoga. i know how my body should feel. if i have any soreness, i'm not going to be able to do my job. but once i take advil, i'm able to finish my day and finish out strong. then when i do try other things, i always find myself going back to advil. it really works! [ laughs ] [ male announcer ] make the switch. take action. take advil.

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coming up, a new addition to the "ridicu-list." a few clues, they're sisters, they have the same initials, they've written another book, but not the one we want. fu birs, joe johns has a "360"

news and business bulletin. pakistan has agreed to allow the cia to send an forensics team to the osama bin laden compound. war crime suspect ratko milatic has been arrested. the one-time bosnian serb commander is facing charges. he was arrested in a town north of belgrade after a three-year investigation. he'll be tried at the international criminal court at the hague. in washington this weekend, sarah palin will begin a multicity tour being billed as the one nation tour. a source told cnn the former alaska governor will tour a string of historical sites on the east coast. palin isn't saying if she's a step closer to a presidential run. gas prices are up more than

a dollar from last year. but that's not going to keep everybody home. triple-a says nearly 35 million americans plan to travel this weekend, slightly more than this year. >> 35 million, that's incredible. time now for the "ridicu-list." we haven't done it all week. tonight, we're adding the kardashian sisters, who i'm very excited to say have a book coming out. that's right, kim, the other one, have written a new book which will hit stores in november. when i first heard about this, i thought fantastic, finally we're going to get insight into all the areas of their lives that haven't been mined for their four different reality shows and their first book or the second one. but my hopes were soon dashed, kar-dashed, if you will. because this will not give us the inside access to the reclusive lives that we so desperately need. this book is a novel.

like the world needs another one of those boring things. come fall, that will be right there in the fiction section. boring. i know what you're thinking, how many kardashian sisters does it take to write a novel? the correct answer is two, one to pay the ghost writer and one to go through and take all the cs to ks. but all three were heavy involved in create thing literature. to those who scoff that they could write a novel, these are smart ladies. you can't turn one sex tape into a million dollar business empire without being creative. i truly believe that. but even creative geniuses get writer's block and that's what apparently happened to them when it came time to name it. from kim's blog -- >> see, this surprised me.

kim is good at coming up at creative names for things. look at her perfume. it's called kim kardashian. so now there's a contest to name the book. kim didn't have time to give the details. for that, we have to go to khloe's blog. all we have to do is tweet your two or three word title suggestions in all caps. how hard is it to come up with a title for a novel? >> there are five right off the top of my head. come on, ladies, novel name is easy. but i want a book that tells us more about you. how do you spend your days? do you endorse any products that might be available for sale? are you dating anyone? wait, hang on, my producer is

telling me that kim just got engaged. congratulations. but come on, that's personal. an emotional event between two people in love, i wouldn't want to invade her privacy, which is why i'm not going to read about it in "people" magazine. and i'm not going to read that novel, no matter what it's being called. we'll be right back. curtis: welcome back to geico radio, it's savings, on the radio. gecko: hello clarence from stevens point. clarence: ok, you know the grapes at the grocery ore? clarence: well, sometimeyoone. take it foa terive, see that's stealing.rence: s i say it's sampling. what do you think? gecko: yeah, um, listen clarence, i can't really speak to the moral bit, but if you switch to geico, you could save hundreds of dollars on yinsurance. you could buy a whole heap of grapes. how's that? vo: geico.cosa yo% more insurance. you could save hundreds of dollars on yinsurance.

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good evening. breaking news tonight in the search for victims in the joplin tornado. first, though, i want to show you some remarkable new video showing the initial moments after the tornado struck, video captured by a couple racing to find a family member, a brother looking for his sister through a neighborhood which after the tornado they barely even recognized. >> oh, look at this. oh, my gosh. oh, my gosh. oh, my gosh, aaron. oh, my gosh. >> it went right through here. i don't know where we are. >> i don't know where to go. >> we got to keep going this way. don't step on any of this. come on.

>> i feel like i need to help if someone is hurt. >> we'll keep asking. look at this house. come on. >> you guys okay? >> yeah. >> oh, my gosh! look at these houses, babe. >> you guys okay? >> yes. >> what street is this? >> i don't know. >> oh, babe, look. >> what? >> oh, no. it's the hospital. >> it was the hospital. show you more of that video. imagine you don't even recognize the community you're living in

because everything is so destroyed. they went to find her sister, sarah. we're going to play you the rest of the video after the break. you'll really want to see how it ends. last night, the governor of missouri said there would be changes in the search for the missing. today we saw the start of those changes. the state took over a large portion of the disaster response. releasing the official roster of people missing or unaccounted for. i have the roster right here. remember for days we've been saying 1,500 unaccounted for based on a local official statement days ago. today after working all night, the state got that number down to 232 people unaccounted for. 232. but even officials concede the list contains errors. lantz hare is on it twice. under his first and middle names, those errors are obviously easy to correct. what's proving more difficult is the situation at the morgue in joplin and the process for identifies the dead. you remember we spoke to lantz hare's dad, mike, who has been searching for days for his son,

searching and continually calling his son's cell phone. >> i started calling him and still never got anything. i called it all last night. >> you're still calling his number? >> i can't stop. i don't know why. i sat up until like 2:00 last night and that's all i did. >> called his cell phone. does it ring? >> it rang for the first day and a half, and now it goes straight to voice mail. but just in case he gets it, i want him to know his dad loves him. >> today, the family got word unofficial at first that lantz is dead. it turns out he's been in the morgue all along. his family got word through a friend in law enforcement who had access to the morgue. as a favor, he went there looking for lantz. if the friend hadn't done that, it's likely the family would not know where he is. wes are learned of a 16-month-old skyular logsdon today. we told you his story. it turns out he's been in the morgue all this time, too.

his family only found out late yesterday only because of a friend of a friend showed them morgue photos of the body of a small child they thought might be skyular, and in fact it was. both families are heart broken but at least they know, they know where their child is. what's frustrating, however, to other families is that both found out about their kids unofficially by back channels. other families said to us, why can't their families have someone visit the morgue and check for their loved ones? of course, some identifications can only be made by dna, but some will be recognizable. we want the make it clear, every official that we met in joplin has been working incredibly hard and trying to do the right thing under very, very difficult circumstances. but some of the explanations for the delays and the red tape and the rules haven't made much sense to people searching for their loved ones and some people in joplin continue to be frustrated. tonight, the breaking news is that the local coroner tells cnn that starting tomorrow, some people under some circumstances will be allowed into the morgue

to view remains. gary tuchman is in joplin tonight with the latest. gary, what are you hearing now? the state of missouri took charge of this missing person's list today. what do we now know about people's access to go to the morgue? >> reporter: right now, as of this moment, they have no access to go to the morgue. that may change tomorrow. more on that in a second. you said it yourself, anderson, people are working very hard here. but what we've seen in this disaster is an unusual amount of a lack of compassion and common sense among many of the people here. and the case in point is the 16-month-old boy. his family is frantic. he's missing for three days. i interviewed his father just yesterday. his father in a hospital bed, he was seriously injured in the tornado. his son was with him. he was convinced his son was still alive. he was saying, i know he's alive. i just want to get into the morgue, or get some pictures so we know for sure. but they wouldn't let them in the morgue. two hours after i interviewed his father, a friend of a friend

got them access to two pictures of toddlers in the morgue. one of the pictures was of their son skyular. they still haven't found out officially. so they're 95% sure he passed away, but not 100%, because they can't get in the morgue as of yet. so the coroner does say, starting tomorrow, people, some people will be able to go into the morgue. but it's not clear if that will happen because we're not sure where the governor stands on the issue. >> we're going to talk to the governor. i asked him this a couple of times. this just broke as we were interviewing the governor, so we'll show you his reaction and try to get the latest information. last night the governor said he would do something about the problems we've been seeing with people, with the slow access, with kind of disorganization. it does seem like he has delivered on that promise. i mean, within a few hours of getting new people in there to take over, they suddenly got this list down to 232. >> reporter: right.

the governor is working hard. he's doing some good work. but i can tell you it's much lower, because we saw family of five on the list. we wanted to go to their house. how could a family of five be missing? the house wasn't badly damaged. we talked to neighbors who say the family is fine, they're just in another town right now. so we know that number will go lower. we can tell you about some strange things going on here. the morgue, where these bodies are right now, is a secret morgue, and it is secret. you call up officials and say can you tell us where the morgue is, they say it's a secret, we can't tell you. we had to do some investigating, because we wanted to ask questions as to what is going on and what happened to this little boy. and so we found the morgue after some investigating and i want to show you this strange encounter we had on a public road with law enforcement officials that felt like we were crossing an international border without a passport. >> guys, what are you doing? >> we're with cnn. we're trying to find out where the morgue is. >> you guys got any cameras? >> yes, we do.

>> they need to be secured this the back of your vehicle. >> why is that? >> because we have orders from our lieutenant to do that. >> to do what? >> to secure the cameras. >> is there secret activity going on here? >> you can't be around here is all. >> why? >> this is private property. you're in the middle of the road, you're a danger to yourself. as you can see, there's a vehicle behind you. take your cameras and put them in the back of the vehicle. >> we want to find out a baby in the morgue. >> is he shooting back there? take that camera and put it in the back of your car. >> go ahead and go. >> don't come back. >> he told us "don't come back." the police officer opened our door and i was afraid he was going to arrest our cameraman. that's when he turned off the camera. we don't usually hear that from the good guys in the blue. >> i understand why they're concerned about people going to this morgue and creating drama. i want to play for our viewers

what the coroner said on eliot spitzer's show earlier tonight, just to get a sense for people who may be listening. and may be thinking can i go to the morgue. let's play what the coroner said. >> i just stepped out of a meeting at missouri southern state university with a group of family members, and they expressed their concerns of just the concerns i've listened to tonight, and the decision was made if a person can make a positive i.d. with let's say for instance piercings or tattoos, a lot of people told us they would have a specific tattoo that nobody else would have, tomorrow we're going to start the process of allowing those people to view the bodies of the loved ones if we can make a positive i.d., we're going to go ahead and release those bodies. >> so that's what the coroner said to eliot spitzer.

gary, i guess we're going to have to wait and see tomorrow what exactly the situation is. as you know, gary, i talked to the governor while that conversation was airing on his show. i was speaking to the governor in a pretaped interview. when we spoke last night, he promised action. we point out a lot when politicians don't deliver on their promises, but we also believe in pointing out when they do. the governor has delivered. the state's department of public safety has taken over the search for the missing. the governor ordered in some 20 or so officers to get things organized and sorted out. and it took them just a couple hours to whittle down the estimated 1,500 unaccounted to a list of 232 people. so i spoke to him a short time ago and asked him how that effort is going and also about these frustrations about what we've been hearing about the situation in the morgue. governor, last night you said your administration was going to take more direct control. it already has. just this morning, you guys basically have taken over the effort, the state has taken over the effort to locate the missing.

the actual number of missing has been reduced from 1,500. so clearly there's already changes afoot. what's the latest from your vantage point? >> we did see that challenge, that list of 1,300 was out there from a myriad of sources. we took control of that and brought folks in, they got that down to 232. this evening, had a meeting with all of those families to go through the processes of the necessary identification. our goal is obviously to get the zero, move down off 232 to zero. unfortunately, some of those stories are going to be very sad. but the bottom line is we have made significant progress today towards taking away that uncertainty and we're working all day and all night to finish that task. >> you do know this list of 232 obviously some of these people are going to be alive. according to the a.p., the first person on the list, sally adams, is actually alive, they've confirmed this. she was in an article that she

survived the storm. so this 232 number, you're going to quickly try to whittle that down even more? >> absolutely. we had over a dozen folks able to get off that list late this morning. that's good news when you can find folks, that they're unaccounted for, and we got these facts out publicly. we want to whittle that down. but there's also some very, very sad stories on that list. we expect some of those folks to be found in a condition that's no longer living. >> we're still hearing a lot of anger about the situation in the morgue. gary tuchman, our correspondent, just reported on a family member who's been shown a picture of her 16-month-old nephew, deceased. for days, the family hasn't known whether he was alive or not. turns out skyular is in the morgue. she was shown that picture through unofficial channels, yet she and her family have not been

allowed in to see the body and receive actual confirmation that little skyular is in fact dead. how is that possible? >> that's one of the reasons we moved to have all 232 of the folks that were missing, the folks that have made those reports in a private meeting with the folks at the morgue. but it's also important to note that this was an incredible storm, and this is not a series of bodies lying in a row that are easily identifiable. there are pieces of folks. there are very, very difficult scenes. it's not as easy as walking down a row and being able to instantly identify. the dna matches, unfortunately a significant number are going to be necessary to confirm that. that takes a little while. it's a reality of a storm of this magnitude that's done this level of damage. >> but grant it that no doubt about it, and obviously one wants to wait for dna, but in the meantime, they've been saying that might take two weeks. it doesn't seem reasonable to expect a grieving family to just

be told to sit on their hands for two weeks. there are plenty of family members who would be willing to take on the onerous task of walking down that row and even if the sights are horrible, i know plenty of family members who want that opportunity very badly. >> well, as i said before, when we got a sense yesterday that the information wasn't moving quickly enough, we came in and took over that operation and seen a dramatic shift today, going from an up known list of 232 to a list of 232 confirmed folks and moving off that number already today, setting up and having a meeting with the morgue, with all of these families to go through that process. >> but it does seem like families who are lucky enough to have a friend in law enforcement who is able to get into the morgue, like lantz hare, his father has been on my program weeping, he was spending what money he could to drive to springfield to look into a

hospital there. turns out his son has been dead in the morgue this whole time, and a family friend, who is a law enforcement officer, was able to get in and see that it was in fact lantz because he knows the boy well and he told the family that their son is in fact dead and in the morgue. and still there's been no official confirmation of that. that just doesn't seem right that a family that luckily enough has a connection is able to find information and get confirmation and a family that doesn't has to wait two weeks. isn't there some way to speed this up and not just have it be relying on dna to allow families access? >> this has been an unmistakable tragedy, almost unimaginable for this community. it's ripped apart families in so many ways. as i said before, when we got the sense there was challenges yesterday morning, we acted and moved to accelerate dramatically the process. and it's hard to say we had a good day when you're identifying remains of folks that have been killed.

i don't mean in any way, shape or form to show a lock of sensitivity. as i said to you, anderson, right here in joplin yesterday, i think you'll see a significant change. when folks got up this morning, they saw a focused effort towards getting that information out. there's no desire to hide this vital information from these folks in any way, shape or form and we're pressing with the resources we have and additional resources to make sure that we get that information out as quickly as possible. >> i understand the local coroner just told cnn tonight that beginning tomorrow people will be able to get into the morgues and identify bodies. can you confirm that? will you support that? >> we're going to continue to move that number down and continue to move forward. there are some very difficult moments ahead for this community. and it's a very difficult process. and i just want everybody to know that the folks that we've got in there are working as quickly as they can to be sure and to get that information out to those families that are so in

need. >> i'm just not clear. again, i don't want to push you on this, but i'm not clear. does that mean you -- if in fact the coroner has said people can go, you would support that or you're not sure at this time and you need to check with him and get back to us? >> i don't need to check with anybody. i know that there's people as this process has moved forward have had access and will continue to have access. that being said, as the day has moved on, more people have had access to the process. more people have gotten direct notification. but we believe that those people deserve notification first, not by the governor talking on cnn. we're dealing with families here and the lives of people. i'm going to continue to move a process that focuses on the personal rights and liberties of those individuals and get that information out as quickly as i can. >> i think i got the answer on that. i appreciate your time. it's been a long day for you. i appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. >> thank you very much. up next, some of the video we showed you earlier taken moments after the tornado hit.

a brother searches for his sister. >> sarah, mike! sarah, mike! >> mike, sarah! >> we'll show you how the video ended. you don't want to miss it. later, new allegations against the gadhafi regime. this is a disturbing story. it's stunning, not perhaps surprising. but according to some confirmed reports and some video evidence that a reporter has seen in misurata, his troops are engaging in systematic rape. mass rape. we're going to talk to one of the few correspondents still on the ground in misurata who has seen the video. video that stunned her. we'll be right back. work, building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity, and investing billions of dollars to improve your wireless network experience.

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breaking news tonight. the coroner handling fatalities from the joplin tornado says that certain people with missing family members will be allowed in to make positive identification if they know of specific tattoos or other unique markings on the body of their loved one. we showed you video taken moments after the tornado struck, video unlike anything we've seen. a couple, brook mckenzie and

air rorn aaron cox searching for aaron's sister in a neighborhood that was a neighborhood in name only. take a look. >> look at all this. >> you guys okay? >> are you guys okay? >> yeah. >> holy crap! >> they raced to the home of aaron's sister, sarah. a tree across the street was burning. sarah's house was badly damaged. look. >> sarah, mike! >> sarah, mike. mike, sarah! >> check the basement. >> sarah, mike? >> mike, sarah? >> you guys down here?

>> mike? >> sis? >> sarah? >> mike? >> they must have left. >> i think they're gone. >> kirby, kirby. >> kirby jean. [ whistling ] >> they must have took kirby with them. come on. they're not in the basement? >> no, i don't think so. sarah, mike! >> they're not down there. you went down there? >> yeah. you can't really see anything, though. >> kirby is sarah's cat. brook and aaron did not find sarah at home, but they did find sarah. aaron and sarah join me now. very nice to see both of you together. can you guys hear me?

this is anderson. >> one, two, three, four. >> yes, sir. >> aaron, sarah, you can hear me? >> yes. >> all right, cool. it's great to see you guys together. aaron, what was going through your head when you grabbed the camera and ran outside? had you ever been through anything like this before? >> nothing like this. i mean, i'm not sure anybody has with what they're saying about this kind of tornado. when we left the house, we had no idea it was like this. i took the camera thinking there would be some downed trees and stuff like that. but the time we had to abandon the car because of the debris, you realized the severity of everything and i already had the camera running. so we had it running as every block you went in deeper, the worse and worse it got and the severity of it set in. >> aaron, you had trouble figuring out where you were, even though it's a neighborhood you probably know very well. >> yeah. i've lived in joplin my entire life. you know, i've been to my sister's house obviously plenty of times.

but everything was so leveled. you had no idea where you were. with the street signs gone, there was no landmarkers. there was no houses, no trees, no nothing. it was just completely barren. so we kept having to ask people where we were. even the people that lived on the streets were so dazed had a hard time telling us where we were. so it was a real struggle to find out where the heck we were. >> sarah, where did you ride out the storm? >> we were in the basement of our home. it was an old cellar. i think originally an outdoor cellar. we just were watching tv, getting ready for dinner and heard the sirens go off. so we went the basement and continued watching tv until we couldn't hear it anymore and realized what was going on. >> what was it like being in the basement hearing this storm? >> it was crazy. actually the only reason i know -- that i knew what was going on is because of tv and people saying it sounds like a train. it dawned on us when i said, oh, it sounds like a train going by, we realized what it was.

when the pressure of our ears came, it felt like our ears were going to blow. that's when my fiance said, we're definitely in a tornado. so it was pretty terrifying. >> aaron, how did you finally find sarah? >> after we didn't find them at the house, we didn't know what to do. but people pointed us to the walgreen's saying that was where they had a triage center set up. they weren't there, so we started walking down main street, or what was left of main street, trying to get a cell phone signal, which was not existent. we were asking people if we had seep them, yelling out their names. finally we happened to walk into cell coverage and her fiance mike got a phone call through to us, that lasted about ten seconds, saying they had made it to our parent's house, they were okay, and then the phone cut out. but that's all we needed to hear, thankfully. later tonight, we're going to take you to libya to the besieged town of misurata and

talk to marie colvin, a british reporter there who has a story that's just -- it's hard to hear. i'm going to tell you that right now, but it's an important story. evidence of systematic abuse, sexual abuse, sexual violence against young women by gadhafi's forces. she has seen video proof of this. actually taken by the soldiers on their cell phone kamras. she'll explain what she has seen ahead. and in "crime and punishment," jared lee loughner deemed not competent to stand trial. i'll talk to senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin and dr. sanjay gupta how laufier's case compares to elizabeth smart's kidnapper, who was just sent tensed to life in prison. ♪

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for months, we followed the story of eman al obeidy who said she was gang raped by moammar gadhafi soldiers. tonight, there are reports that her case was anything but an isolated one. that in fact, gadhafi troops may have at least in some cases been ordered to systematically rape young women and girls in misurata. a town they've been besieging for month. the women are too scared to come

forward, but there is cell phone video, video found on the cell phones of libyan government soldiers. marie colvin has seen at least one of these videos. i spoke to her a short time ago on the phone from misurata. marie, you have actually seen evidence of basically systematic rapes by gadhafi forces of civilians in misurata. what have you seen, what have you heard? >> reporter: i thought it could an urban myth. there's no phones, everybody has been literally, virtually incarcerated in their homes, but i watched one of these videos and turned my stomach. there's no way to describe the disgust i felt. it was four young women, probably about 16, into the early 20s, stripped in front of their parents and two little children. and then taken into a separate room by about 20 soldiers in

uniform, and raped horrifically. at one point, one of them screams for alla god, and one screams back "our god is gadhafi" and then they raped these four young women repeatedly. >> how do we know this isn't just a group of thugs don't this? is there evidence that this is directed by officers, that this is somehow a part of their strategy? >> the direct evidence that i have is talking to one of gadhafi's soldiers who is a prisoner here, and repentant. and he said his two officers entered this house, this is a different house, there's about a thousand rapes. >> a thousand rapes? >> reporter: entered this house -- about a thousand rapes across misurata over a two-month period. the officers raped the young women first. other members of the unit raped the young women in the house.

they were standing guard, ordered to stand guard up on the roof. and their next order was to come downstairs and rape two young women. >> why would they being doing this? we've seen this in the congo where we reported a lot where rape has become a weapon of war and it's an attempt to destroy society. what is the purpose here? >> reporter: it's very much a weapon of war is the way to put it, anderson. it's a weapon particularly in this very, very conservative society. this is -- it's not just the islamic faith, it's a conservative, traditional society. women who have been raped, sad to say, are unmarriageable. women who are married and raped bring shame on the family. so terrorizing and undermining the effectiveness of your enemy forces, that's a weapon of war and it's a war crime.

>> is there treatment for any of these young girls? are they able to even come forward? >> reporter: women who have been raped are not -- i was not able to speak to them. they're shocked, traumatized. i have spoken to doctors who are being very sympathetic. there is sympathy for these women that has, first of all extended to some of the younger rebels, saying that they feel so guilty they did not get to these families in time to save the women of misurata, that they've offered to marry the young women, which would save them from a very lonely and blighted life. the doctors here are taking very practical steps to begin with, trying to reach out to the community and get them treated initially for sexually transmissible diseases, and offering abortions. abortion is not legal here, but they see this as something they

can do to, in some way, help these young women. and then counselling. they're in touch with some of the counselors and doctors who helped the rape victims of bosnia, where you had 50,000 rapes and a wave of suicides. that's what they're worried about here to begin with. >> it's incredible. marie, it's a hard thing to talk about and i appreciate you talking to us. thank you. >> good talking to you, anderson. still ahead, "crime and punishment." a major roadblock, a judge ruling that jared lee loughner isn't fit to stand trial. on the same day elizabeth smart's kidnapper was sentenced to life in prison. why the different outcomes? dr. sanjay gupta and jeffrey toobin join me ahead with that. building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity, and investing billions of dollars to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call

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"crime and punishment" tonight. two high profile cases take dramatically different turns. in salt lake city, a judge sentenced brian david mitchell to life for kidnapping and raping elizabeth smart almost nine years ago while holding her captive for months. the state court found mitchell mentally il and up unfit to stand trial.

here's what she said later. >> i told brian david mitchell today in court that whether he received his just sentence here on earth or after this earth life, that one day he will have to be responsible. i was happy for the opportunity to say what i felt i needed to say. and i am thrilled it's over. >> in arizona, a judge ruled that mass shooting suspect jared lee loughner is not competent to stand trial. loughner is charged with killing six people, wounding 13, including congresswoman gabrielle giffords. the judge said he based his decision on mental evaluations of loughner who has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. loughner is going to be re-evaluated in september when he's due back in court. remarkably, very different outcomes in two high profile cases. i talked about both to jeffrey toobin and dr. sanjay gupta.

sanjay, how do they determine if someone is mentally competent enough to stand trial? >> well, in this case, it was two experts, a psychiatrist and a psychologist who spent a lot of time with him every day over a period of a mont, 18 hours of interviews. they were described with him mainly in bed with the cover up to his face and he was sort of incoherently rambling is how they described it. they looked at background information, got a good medical history, looked at his history of substance abuse. at the end, they make some conclusions and these reports are submitted separately, it was my understanding, as well, to the judge. he did not seem to have the ability to understand the proceedings of the legal system. he had characteristics of paranoia and schizophrenia and his thinking was very disorganized. both said he did not have any evidence that he was faking in any way, as well. >> mentally competent to stand trial and insanity defense are two different things.

>> two very different things and it relates to time. mentally competent to stand trial means right now. does he understand what's going on? insanity defense relates to his mental state at the time that the crime took place. so there's a lot of evidence in this case, apparently, that he was looking on the internet about possible penalties, what does it mean about solitary confinement, the death penalty. all of that would be relevant on the question of insanity, if that's what he winds up pleading. that has no relevance to the question of right now, is he fit to stand trial. >> even if he's a paranoid schizophrenic, could he still be that he's not insane at the time of the crime? >> that's right. they are separate judgments. all of these are very fuzzy legal categories. the legal system has struggled literally for centuries, since the 18th century, to try to define these terms like insanity. frankly it hasn't been very successful. so the short answer is, it's very hard to be found not guilty by reason of insanity.

we don't have a lot of people who get acquitted on those grounds, but it does happen occasionally. but the first step is you have to be found fit to stand trial. >> and right now, he's not fit to stand trial? >> that's right. and they'll come back in september. but this could go on for years. they could go on finding him not fit, but you don't get a free pass, like you are in custody and they keep making that evaluation. >> sanjay, if it's paranoid schizophrenia, there is medication. there are many people who are schizophrenics who live constructive lives and contribute to society by taking their medication. if he was able to take medication or forced to take medication, could he then be determined competent to stand trial? >> i think so and i think that's exactly what the plan is. you're absolutely right. we just did a whole investigation into these sorts of things, mental illness in particular. he has characteristics where he's lost touch with reality. he has delusional behavior,

which can sometimes result in violent outbursts. but you're absolutely right. the psychiatric approach is that this could be treated, and i think you're right. jeffrey would know better than that, it's going to be forced. >> can somebody be forced? >> absolutely. and there's an interesting medical ethics question, because there are doctors who don't want to participate in this, because the goal of this treatment is to get him sane enough to go to go to trial where he may be executed and he's not going to be executed if he doesn't stand trial. so there's some doctors who say i don't want any part of this. up next, "perry's principles," avoiding ivey league debt. see how some are going to harvard university tuition free. s network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity, and investing billions of dollars

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students at harvard university are considered some of the most gifted in the country and it's assumed they have plenty of money or graduate with plenty of debt. but some are going there tuition fee. the price tag for $38,000 a year is waived for them. steve perry talks with a student benefitting from the program and to harvard's president. >> i have to admit, when i first saw an e-mail that said that harvard was offering up a no parental contribution for students whose families made

under $60,000, i thought it was an urban myth. what's the likelihood of finding a student whose family makes under $60,000 who is going to post the scores and gpas that harvard has? >> we have habit 18% of the freshman class this year who fits that category. we want to make sure that people who are talented and can take fullest advantage of the opportunities here can come regardless of their financial circumstances. >> elisa mackie is one of those students. >> i was applying to school as my father passed away. so that dramatically changed other financial situation. so that's why i'm in need of the assistance. when i applied, i didn't know about the initiative. it wasn't until about three weeks before i showed up on campus that i got my financial aid pack and i remember my mom opening the letter thinking it might be a mistake because it said family contribution, zero.

>> when you started here at harvard, you had a responsibility as part of the financial aid package you're receiving, right? >> there is a student contribution, it's not a lot of money. >> there are many college presidents struggling with how to attract students from historically disadvantaged populations and what they can do. what would you say to them? >> we have to send a message to students that we want them and that those of us who can support the financial aid programs like ours are do so. >> how has this program impacted your career decisions? >> if there was no financial aid initiative, there would be maybe a little more pressure to go into a field where i would be making a lot of money. maybe something that i wasn't all that passionate about, but the fact that i'm going to graduate without any loans, i won't have that hanging over my head andky do what i want to do. so next year i'll be teaching special education for elementary school students in new orleans.

>> i went to college in the late '80s and it was expensive back then for a private college. i can't imagine now. how can colleges make tuition more affordable? >> the cost is absurd, so one way is to make it free. harvard university has taken the lead on this one. what they've said is if you're a student of a certain economic level and you can get into harvard, they're going to pay for you to go. isn't that what we want? don't we want schools who want children regardless of their circumstances? we know that they can do it for athletes, why can't they do it for great students? harvard is showing it it can be done. >> but you need a huge endowment to be able to do that. >> one would argue that, but somehow these schools find a way to put a basketball player in the school for free. they could put a good student in the school for free. it would seem to me that it benefits the school to have good students in their school

regardless of how much money their parents have the opportunity to make. >> principal perry, thanks. >> thank you. we'll be right back. this past year alone there was a 93% increase in cyber attacks. in financial transactions... on devices... in social interactions... and applications in the cloud. some companies are worried. some, not so much. thanks to a network that secures it all and knows what to keep in, and what to keep out. outsmart the threats. see how at cisco.com cisco. [ female announcer ] wake up to sweetness with honey nut cheerios cereal. kissed with real honey. and the 100% natural whole grain oats can help lower your cholesterol. you are so sweet to me.

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