challenge" question was "c," marmite. a shockingly popular british spread made from yeast extract. it is now in danger of being banned in denmark because it has added vitamins. i personally would ban it on the grounds of its taste. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. stay tuned for "reliable sources." everyone's talking about it. so it must be true. this republican presidential field is incredibly weak, and someone needs to ride to the rescue. but one of twhat if the media i about romney, pawlenty and huntsman? and is the media falling for the latest sarah palin tease? the oprah era is coming to an end. the daytime queen goes out on top. we'll look at her legacy and the struggles at her new cable network. being the producer of a

fast-paced show like "morning joe" is plenty of pressure, but it was nothing compared to what happened when chris licht was hospitalized with a brain hemorrhage. he'll tell us what he learned when he almost died. and cnn's done lemon on why he decides to reveal he is gay and whether that should affect how he's viewed as a journalist. i'm how shouard kurtz, and this "reliable sources." mitch daniels is out. mike huckabee is out. donald trump is out. so the press have decided that they're like a sandlot team trying to play in the majors. pundits chatting. pretty amazing how we see into the future, isn't it? take a look. >> i think the daniels departure really opens up the space for paul ryan like nobody else. ryan's the one guy who has a rendezvous with destiny right

now. >> frankly, we're disappointed. now, obviously, we have to start looking. and i was just saying this morning maybe it's time to start drafting paul ryan. >> i just find this the most boring list i've ever seen in my life. pawlenty, the name itself is like polenta. >> among republicans they're saying you've got to be kidding me. this is the 3-2 beer of american politics. >> and how is the press treating those republicans who are actually running? tim pawlenty who became an official candidate this week got this question on the "today" show. >> people often look at you and they say, is there enough charisma there for tim pawlenty to beat barack obama? what's your answer to that? >> i'm not running for entertainer in chief. >> so what should we make of the media's rush to judgment? joining us now here in washington, christina bellantoni for "cq roll call." john, founder of americablog.com, and in new york, senior editor at "national review." christina, these ridiculously early judgments by you and your

colleagues, how do you justify them? >> well, i wouldn't necessarily justify them. and i will defend pawlenty in saying that i like polenta, and i don't think that's fair to criticize him based on his name. what this is about is the media, they like to see new people jump in. they like a little razzle dazzle and in the end this benefits the candidates because they can go out to these early states and shake voters' hands and make connections on the ground without all the scrutiny of the press. >> the campaign is just getting under way. >> this is just the game we play every single year. i don't necessarily think that we are good at that. >> are the pundits, john, missing or perhaps ignoring the fact that one of these candidates could catch fire when spring training is over and the regular season actually starts? >> i think they're ignoring it but they're ignoring it on purpose to the degree i think the media is reflecting what the public is feeling and frankly what gop pundits are feeling which you showed earlier. there's a sense these candidates aren't good enough to beat barack obama. the polls are showing that. and when you look at sort of the top three candidates we've had in the news as far as name

recognition, you had romney, you had gingrich -- not romney -- you had gingrich, palin and donald trump. all three of which kind of come off a little nutty. and i think the public's reaction and the media's reaction has been not taking it as seriously. >> does it tick you off that the mainstream immediamedia is tras this field? >> i wouldn't say it ticks me off. i think it's understandable. i think a lot of reporters want a shiny, new candidate to play with. i think a lot of conservatives are never satisfied because there's always a flaw with the actual candidates in the primary field. the grass is always greener outside that field. and a lot of liberals want to say it's a weak field because it helps, you know, demoralize the conservatives. so everybody has an interest in saying this is a weak field. what it is is a competitive field that has several candidates in it who are potentially quite strong. in huntsman, romney and pawlenty, you've got three republican governors who outperformed their party in their states who could go the

distance. >> right. let me turn back to the junioristjunio journalists. let's turn to romney. mitt romney has what might be called an al gore problem. even if he's being genuine, he seemed ersat. >> i covered the democratic field in 2008, so i didn't get to know him very well, but i think also it's this -- i hate to use the term "boredom," but they're familiar with mitt romney. we've told mitt romney's story in 2008. everybody is looking for the new thing to keep viewers and readers paying attention. and everybody knows that candidates, flash in the pan candidates like donald trump or palin, get clicks. they get more readers. we create this sort of false tension that really isn't fair to anybody. >> that sounds like it's more about ratings and online traffic than it is about seriously covering this presidential contest. but let me stick with this romney question. the media have created this narrative. he goes out without a tie or to a nascar race, the press questions it.

>> wait, but i think the press is questioning it because they do know romney. romney did a complete roundabout on gay rights. i remember the '94 campaign. i worked on that campaign. he was claiming he was better on gay rights than ted kennedy. not today he doesn't claim that. this week he claimed he was for the auto bailout when he was against it two years ago. the media knows -- >> a policy basis because he changed his view. >> in his track record and you hear it from republicans, too. >> there is plenty to criticize on romney's record if you want to go after flip-flops and authentici authenticity. the problem is the press has decided that's the narrative about romney and they're slotting things that don't belong there into that story line like what he's wearing at a particular event. that's the problem. just as when the reporters decided that gore was an inauthentic figure or he had a problem with the truth, every trivial little thing became part of that story line. and the candidate was never given a chance to break out of that. >> but this is not unique to romney. i mean, look at what happened with barack obama bowling in pennsylvania.

i mean, the press creates these things around candidates, and their rivals play into that. definitely the other republican candidates are trying to portray romney as inauthentic and flip-flopper. the press can create that. there's this tension that's natural and fun to cover and more interesting than trying to delve into what he would really do about auto companies. >> to some degree there is some truth. it's not as bad as an al gore, like yeah, you're twisting his words. hillary clinton goofed off a bosnian thing but she's not a serial liar. this week on the auto bailout, there is a track record there. >> i have no problem with journalists pointing out every single position that he's changed or how he pushed through this health care plan. but i keep hearing these phrases. i keep hearing these phrases, it's more fun to cover this. we're bored. it sounds like this whole thing, which is a fairly serious contest to choose the next president, is being conducted for our entertainment. >> it's theater. i mean, you have to be honest and admit that that has how a

lot of peach approach this particularly when it's such a competitive market competing for clips, ads, for viewers. that's what it's about. i think this is the dirty little secret among some net works where they're afraid somebody like pawlenty being asked about his amount of charisma as the nominee, viewers will turn the channel and not pay attention to presidential debates a year from now. >> it's more than a ratings game. i think howard was right, it's personal feelings. reporters didn't like gore as much as they liked bush on the campaign plains and reporters don't like mitt romney partly because they think he's a phony or the proverbial rich kid trying to buy the presidency. >> and then you do, as we touched on earlier, have this almost journalists almost mesmerized by the people not in the race. i wish chris christie would get in, paul ryan, michele bachmann who probably will get in. and now sarah palin with this east coast bus tour stirring up the speculation once again, is

the press in danger of being bamboozled by somebody who in the end is probably not going to run? >> i do believe so. i noticed this morning that you had the palin coverage on the front pages of some of the papers. you had, you know, the bus tour. it's not really worthy of a front-page story. but you've got a good photo people like. they're going to turn to that story. they're going to read it because she generates traffic and interest. >> and remember, the same thing in a way happened to obama versus hillary. for the first year, everyone said hillary was inevitable. obama couldn't get a fair shake. then i remember coming on your show. the ones before the election -- actually, before the primaries were resolved and the hillary people were saying it's so unfair. the press is so for obama. they're not for us. and i was, like, we spent a anointing hillary as the winner. it's not partisan but i think it is a common thing that happens. the media goes for one guy or one woman and not the other. >> and from a practical perspective, you talk about the liking or not liking the candidate, hillary clinton faced that in 2008 as well.

she finally came back on her plane and she did shots with the reporters. and she danced with the reporters. and you know what? it worked. and the campaign -- the campaign particularly played into that media narrative and then responded to it. >> let me get back to palin. we don't know whether she'll ultimately run. she may not know, but i personally have a hard time see her giving up this sort of lucrative celebrityhood she has. but she has been out of the news. she has been keeping a low profile. so she organizes the bus tour, but she's still on the fox news payroll which means almost by definition she's not running now. and she'd have to get off that payroll if she did run. so what's your take? >> well, i think she loves messing with reporters. and apparently reporters love being messed with. because it's a symbiotic relationship. it's a love/hate thing. and i would not at all be surprised if she ends up not running. but i think she's enjoying flummoxing reporters and also flummoxing the republican establishment which is probably having serious heartburn.

>> you say love/hate part. which is the love part? when the ratings and traffic go up? is that the love part? >> that would be the love part and maybe loving the hating. >> speaking of interesting stories and front-page stories, i wanted to ask you about this "new york times" piece on the front page the other day about the tiffany's story. this is, of course, newt gingrich has owed -- had a revolving account where he owed up to $500,000 for jewelry. there she is on the front page, second time in two weeks. and i'm wondering how many voters care about this jewelry thing. reporters certainly care about it. and "b," does this start to look like a vendetta? >> i think that something like tiffany's resonates with people. everybody knows what it is. it's sort of representative of something. people might feel might be telling pollsters -- >> why can't gingrich spend his own money the way he wants? >> sure. and in the end that's probably not going to sway an election up with way or another. but whoever dug up that opposition research through the filings that calista filed as a

staffer which is very interesting in itself basically wanted to push forward this idea that newt gingrich is not a man of the people. and that's something that may or may not resonate with people. >> and democrats always get accused of getting $400 haircuts even though in the end we find out, well -- what was it bill clinton supposedly stopped an entire airport for a haircut. >> not supposedly. he got a haircut at l.a.x. and air traffic was stopped. >> i'm not saying these are good things that happen, but christine is right. they happen to sort of everybody. the media does do this. but you know what? the public likes it. the public likes these stories. >> i'm not so sure about that. >> i think they're a bit goofy. >> well, look, i think the problem for gingrich is this. the tiffany's story is more easily comprehensible than a story about medicare and some back-and-forth about what his position is. and this is a story that late-night comedians can latch on to and not let go of. >> let me get a break. when we come back, sarah pal palin's private e-mails publi published in a new book and

messages on twitter leaked to a website. should this sort of thing be fair game?

frank bailey, a former gubernatorial aide to sara pail, has just published a book with hundreds of her private personal e-mails, and he's been making the television rounds. let's watch. >> you weren't so blind and it's tough as a reader to be very sympathetic.

>> you know, brooke, that is absolutely fair. you know, you go into something vesting so much. i mean, you look at this like a relationship that maybe isn't going so well. >> you say it's blind allegiance, but you did all these things. >> i did. i did. >> and then you say, i shouldn't have done it. and i'm trying to say, well, the things that you say you did because you have gotten in a lot of trouble. >> i did. >> why should the media give thisgy a platform? >> well, he's got something interesting to say. he's got information about governor palin. i think he sounds like a disreputable character. i mean, i don't think what he's doing is honorable. but if you're a reporter relating this information you've got and it's not your responsibility to make sure that the person giving it to you is a person of upright character. >> right. the e-mails are authentic. no one's disputed that. john, he did the most hostile interview with him.

lawrence o'donnell i thought was easy on him because palin is the target. >> you know, i don't know if it's fair, but i feel like it is fair game in terms of this but also some of the other issues we discuss because i think you're dealing with potential presidential canned da presidential candidates. unfortunately there isn't much privacy when you get to that level. i don't like it, but i think i probably would report on it. >> how about if it's not a presidential candidate but an aide to a possible candidate. rebecca mansour wret a lot of private messages on twitter to somebody she thought was a friend. they were leaked to a conservative website. when she was quoted as saying so-and-so was a dumb ass, taking a swipe at bristol palin, would you have published this? >> that's a good question. i think in this case, palin has such a very small circle of advisers. this is like a campaign manager sending these e-mails. i think you do have to weigh the individual who is sending them.

and i think every single instance is a judgment call by editors or the news broadcasters. and in this case because of her prominence within the palin campaign and because of how close she is to the former governor, i would have published them. >> you would have published them. >> it's a bit like wikileaks to some degree. meaning you need to go through the same analysis you would in writing about classified documents that are leaked. these are things intended to be private and exchanged them, but once the press gets them, should you report on them? i think you've got to weigh the cost versus the benefit to the public. >> but then you've had a lot of journalists say in the same website, the daily caller, which published this e-mail group called journalists, you had a lot of journalists saying this is really unfair. we thought we were off the record. like talking to a friends in a bar. but they're not particularly upset that the palin aide's twitter messages got leaked, because why? somebody from the other side. >> e-mail is an e-mail is an e-mail. i think every time you send something out, you have to recognize it could get printed out or forwarded or posted or in

the case of a direct message, how many times have people posted that to their whole twitter feed? you have to be smarter than that if you're in politics. >> am i the only one who finds this depressing, anything you write anytime to somebody who you think is a friend could be splashed across somebody's computer screen? >> i think it's depressing that people value confidences so lightly. and i think that if you are governor palin or her aide, you are reconsidering who you're putting your trust in, and maybe you need to put some of those filters up in your personal dealings with people. >> often journalists who report on this or interview the person involved, these days don't seem to worry very much about whether it's a personal betrayal. like give us the goods. give us the really juicy, dirty, sleazy stuff. >> do you think in the past they wouldn't report on it? i guess that's an interesting question. do you think things have changed? >> for example, when had george stephanopoulos left the white house and wrote a book about clinton, it was a tell-all and got $3 million for it, he was widely criticized. and now nobody blinks.

we just take it for granted. last question. politico's ben smith actually was offered this collection of twitter messages by rebecca mansour for money. and he wouldn't pay. and tucker carlson said they didn't pay. but there was this great e-mail in which the guy, person, i should say, sorry, ben, it's going to take a lot more than a happy meal and a handshake to get me to betray someone's confidence. because just going to lunch wasn't good enough. i will betray someone's confidence if you send me a check. >> that's pretty bad. to ben's credit and the daily caller's, if they didn't pay, that's great. >> that's what happened with the botox story of the woman who said that she had given her child botox. it's a pretty good lesson. you shouldn't be paying for it. >> what i've concluded is there are no rules anymore, anything goes and unfortunately that's the world we live in. and coming up in the second part of "reliable sources," the oprah era ends. we'll look at her phenomenal popularity and whether she can revive her struggling cable network. plus, a very personal

discussion with longtime "morning joe" producer chris licht about the ailment that almost killed him. and later, cnn's don lemon on why he decided to come out of the closet. ♪ you love money ♪ well, you know i love it too ♪ ♪ you love money ♪ well, you know i love it too ♪ ♪ i work so hard at my job

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century on the way, she had changed television and in a very real way, the culture around her. not bad for a woman who was little known when she began her program in chicago in 1986. >> this show always allows people, hopefully, to understand the power they have to change their own lives. if there's one thread running through each show we do, it is the message that you, you, are not alone. thank you all for sharing this first show. >> her farewell didn't involve biggests or giving away cars, just the host addressing the audience. >> from day one, chicago, you took me in, into your living rooms and your kitchens and your dens, and you spread the word to your friends. i heard you saying, have y'all seen that black girl on tv named oprah? i wanted to encourage you to be more of yourself, just as you all encourage me and you cheered me on. and occasionally complained about my outfits. >> so what is the oprah legacy, and will her impact fade without that daily program?

joining us now here in washington, david zurich, television and media critic for "the baltimore sun." and in new york, lola, pop culture commentator and former reporter for "the new york times." lola, if you can reduce it to a made-for-television answer, why did oprah become such a phenomen phenomenon? >> i think because of two things. one, she was willing to be so honest and forthright about all that she endured in her life. and two, she was able to exhibit a level of compassion that hadn't been seen on tv before at all. she was willing to talk about everything from her own sexual abuse to her failed attempts at weight loss to her relationships. and you felt like she was not only a girlfriend but a sister. and for a lot of people of my generation, she was the older auntie. she was 10 when she came to air. and she's been a part of my life for the better part of 25 years.

it's going to be weird to not have her in my afternoons. >> david, you followed her career since she was? baltimore. in the beginning when the national show, she did a lot of sleazy topics, and then that changed. >> she admits that, that she started out and she had to find her voice. she had a very rough time in baltimore for about 7 1/2 years when she was in her 20s. she left for chicago just at about age 30. and she was just finding her voice. but she struggled at first. and she started out with the kind of reality genre. she could have been maury povich in a way, the female maury povich. but you know what? she really found her voice. and the way she did that, it's true, is with the honesty and using her own life's narrative as programming material. she put it out there for her audience, and it's also absolutely right, the incredible, searing honesty she

had. she didn't invent, of course, the talk show format. but she brought -- >> she changed it. >> yes, she brought that kind of honesty to it and made it authentic and became a force of moral authority in this country. >> lola, you might have hinted at this earlier, but we take it for granted now because oprah is such a household name and part of the culture. but was there a racial resonance to a black woman, there weren't that many of them on tv 30 years ago, becoming so powerful? >> no one had ever seen anyone like oprah. i mean, she talks about when she first appeared on the screen, she was this big black woman with a jheri curl and a fur coat. but she managed to tap into something americans had been longing for and they didn't know it. she was funny, honest and brash. and more than anything, she was willing to share all of herself with audiences. and i think that's the reason she's managed to be on successful over the years. >> oprah winfrey also became a big force in the publishing industry. she could put a book on a

best-seller list with a single episode. she had the author on with the book that turned out not to be entirely accurate. there was that african girls school that was rocked by allegations. but often she'd have to own up to those mistakes. >> that's exactly right. that's one of the things that gave her that authenticity and moral authority is that she also brought her mistakes before the people. she said she always wanted to be a teacher in her final show. i always wanted to be a teacher, and now i've wound up on the world's biggest classroom on this stage. there is that about her. and i think that's the thing. when you think about her becoming this person who became a guide and a mentor, a person of color to a mass audience, i really think we can't overstate that. i think she played a major role in. preparing this country to elect barack obama president. i really do. because she was someone that could be trusted as a guide on

how to live your life. not entertain people anymore. >> beyond the fact that she also endorsed obama. >> yes, absolutely. >> and she was highly committed to making sure that her viewers lived their best lives. i mean, if you look at the final episode, that's essentially the gift that she wanted to give away. it wasn't about a car. it wasn't about a trip to australia. it was about the message that i still want you all to continue to live your best lives. that was her final gift. >> what about this, lola, and i have mixed feelings about this. she also helped create an oprah-fried culture, i would say -- >> i like that word, "opr "oprahfied." >> everyone expected to go on tv and make confessions about their personal lives. maybe to an excessive extent, shall we say. >> well, the viewer in me, obviously, loved it. the more compelling the interview, the better for me. >> you eat it up. >> i eat it all up.

the tears, yeah, the crying, the confessions. i love it. that's why people tuned in for 25 years. >> howie, i interviewed oprah for this finale and had a really great conversation with her. one of my editors said david, i think you've drank the oprah kool-aid. i've been one of the cynics. i said no, i didn't drink it, i'm mainlining the kool-aid. >> you admit it. >> i admit it. there's a force about her. she talked about this in her final show about positive energy. she really is uplifting in a way that no one i have ever seen on tv. now, it may be dangerous in our culture -- >> let me cut it. >> okay. >> i've had my own oprah i.v. drip. >> i'm the only one here who's not on drugs. david, why has the oprah winfrey network on cable had such a hard time getting traction, and is her influence going to fade if that's going to be her outlet besides the magazine? >> howie, it's complicated. i asked her about that. and she said the oprah winfrey

network is not where i want it to be, obviously. give it three years. and i think she can now turn her attention to that network and make that thing work. i think she may have been in too many places. and i think this final season, howie, was more emotional and involving than she knew. and so i think that's one of the reasons she hasn't focused on own as she will in the coming years. >> i completely agree. it's hard to end a show and launch a network. i mean, in the best circumstances, you need 110% focus to launch a network. and frankly, i think she wanted to make sure that her viewers were left with an "oprah winfrey show" that would be remarkable and memorable for this last season. that was her top priority. and i think the network suffered as a result. but she said she's going to focus her attention on her network. she wants it to be successful. but she's also been smart about managing expectations and essentially saying it's going to take three to five years to really get this thing going. she's taken the long-term approach to doing this.

>> it's very different to do an hour of television a day where it's all about you, the star, oprah winfrey and another 24 hours of programming. anderson cooper is started a syndicated show, katie couric will be starting a syndicated show, most likely as abc. can there be another oprah? >> no. the world has changed. no one's going to have that kind of clout. you have the landscape changing, viewer lifestyles, technology and communication. all of that changes out there. the other thing is no one is ever going to be as powerful as oprah, whosever going to bring that to you. we didn't even talk about the oprah factor that she was so powerful from 4:00 to 5:00 p.m. that any local station that had her show often one local news straight to 7:00, remember when they said peter jennings was number one in the '90s with the "abc nightly news"? because he came on at 6:30 on stations that had her.

whosever going to do that again? >> it's a nice lead. you're going to miss her every day. i think you and david should get together and share a kool-aid and commiserate. david and lola, thanks very much for joining us. after the break, longtime "morning joe" producer chris licht on his near-death experience and whether he can pump new life into "cbs's morning show. as a manager, my team counts on me to stay focused. so i take one a day men's 50+ advantage. it's the only complete multivitamin with ginkgo to support memory and concentration. plus it supports heart health. [ bat cracks ] that's a hit. one a day men's.

turns out that being in the control room at "morning joe" isn't always that much fun.

chris licht as executive producer of the show describes a tension-filled existence with lots of clashes and loud arguments with the likes of joe scarborough and mika brzezinski. and then without warning he suffered a brain hemorrhage. licht recovered and just took a job as vice president at cbs and recounts the experience in "what i learned when i almost died." he joins me. chris, welcome. >> good to be here. >> from your book, i picked fights. i sent profanity-infused e-mails. my stomach was a big knot. this is a job you liked? >> i loved it. are you kidding me? executive producer. >> killer producer? >> it was an all-consuming job. >> not a lot of time, you write, for politeness or praise from joe and mika. they'd say don't do this or that. it's not for the fainthearted. >> no, but we are a lean, mean machine. "morning joe" is about 16 people. so it was a driving -- just need to be driven every day. >> did the pressure bring you down? >> no, it was invigorating.

>> you thrived on it. >> absolutely. >> you like yelling at other people. >> sure. >> when the incident happened with the brain hemorrhage, you find yourself in the emergency room. what was your emotional state? >> well, at first i was told i had a stress migraine. so -- >> not so bad. >> so i kind of let my guard down. and then they came back after a c.a.t. scan and said you probably had an aneurysm because level three out of four bleeding on your brain. and i will say unequivocally, it's the most scared i've ever been. complete loss of control, complete loss of any sort of normalcy for the foreseeable future. and you're now wondering if you're going to get out of the hospital. >> and scarborough called joe biden? >> score borrow told mika, you know what? biden's been through this. that's why they called him. who's someone we know that's had one of these? vice president biden. they immediately came to the emergency room and just took over. and it was an incredible relief

because my family was back in new york. so they became my surrogate family. >> you were where? >> g.w. here in washington. >> were you in a lot of pain at that time? >> excruciating pain. >> excruciating pain. >> the worst is the pain, the emotional pain of not knowing what's going to happen next. >> correct. >> and that lasted -- the not-knowing part lasted for a while. >> for a while. a hemorrhage could kill you right away. it can incapacitate you. it can kill you in a couple days. it's really -- it was a while before i was officially out of the woods. so it was a very tough time. >> your recovery was not easy. and you say that your wife, jenny, bore the brunt of that. >> absolutely. >> tell me about that. >> she's a cnn producer, by the way. tough roles are nothing new. but she took over. was so strong. never showed, you know, the crying or woe is me. and she acted as sort of traffic cop about who could come see me and making sure that i was getting the right attention. and she just was amazingly strong. you know, you hope that you never have to see your spouse in

that situation, but it was just -- it was awe-inspiring. >> and you're 38 and hardly expected to find yourself in this situation. it wasn't like you had been sick for a while or anything like that. >> so as you went through this harrowing experience and as you started to recover, did you rethink your approach to life? >> yeah. i wouldn't say it was an overnight thing. >> it wasn't like a thunderbolt? >> no. they let you go out of the hospital. they give you all of these things that you can't do. you know, doan drin't drive. you can't go back to work. they teach you how to deal with almost dying. and that was when you have nothing to do but sit around for weeks and think, it was very transformational. it was a slow process, which is what i go over in the book. >> and what did you think about your -- the values in your life? we all struggle with juggling work and family. but you suddenly had to decide what was important. >> right. i think what happens is the bar becomes so much higher. as to what matters. and what scares you and what's -- what gives you that knot in your stomach.

because you almost died. so nothing is going to hit that bar. >> so if a guest is late, something goes wrong, you don't hit the break on time, it can seem a lot more insignificant than what you went through. >> absolutely. you know, people make the mistake of oh, you must have mellowed out. and you're not as intense. and that's not it at all. you know, i still scream in the control room intense. but you don't bring it home with you. and you don't let it consume you. and that declutters your brain. and the next thing you know, you're spending time with your family. and you're not on your blackberry. and you're not, you know, you're there as opposed to there but not really there. >> better able to leave work behind. >> absolutely. >> so difficult decision to leave "morning joe" for cbs, and how in the world do you fix "the early show" after so many years of third place finishes? >> tough questions. the hardest decision i've ever made professionally. >> because you liked the show? >> "morning joe" i helped create with joe. i've been there since day one

when we used to drive through the tunnel and talk about what we were going to do the show, and that was the rundown. >> so why leave? >> it was an incredible opportunity and i should add a decision that joe and mika helped me make. they were with me every step of the process and said this is just an incredible opportunity with david rhodes and jeff fager are doing over there is a chance to really build something. and it was a chance that doesn't come along a lot in a career. >> you ducked my relationship, you have half a minute to answer it. >> i think the morning show is going to be the first place i focus on. it's a vice president job that's not just the mornings. it's something that needs some help. >> does meredith vieira leaving the "today" show pry an opening for you? >> i'm sure everything provides an opening. >> best of luck at cbs. chris licht, thanks for joining us. up next, don lemon's challenges on being in the news business on being black and gay and why he disclosed a dark secret from his childhood. building up our wireless network all across america.

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don lemon knew what would draw attention in his new book. and he was right. the cnn anchor disclosed that he is gay which he had never discussed before and also wrote about problems in his childhood. lemon said this was a difficult step for him, made all the more difficult because he is black. i spoke earlier with the author of "transparent," don lemon from los angeles. don lemon, welcome. >> thank you, howard. >> there are gay members of congress, there are gay business executives. is it especially hard to come

out in television news? >> well, how many people are out? i'd have to ask you that question. there's not even a handful of us, really, in the national media. and so yeah, i think it's really hard to come out. especially since, you know, you don't know what's going to happen. you don't know if you're going to turn some viewers off or if you're going to get people to watch you more. i don't know. but yes, it's really hard to come out. i think otherwise we'd have more members of the media who are out. >> do executives fear that part of the audience would be turned off? and is that a reasonable fear in 2011 when recent polls showed more than half of americans support gay marriage? in other words, is this an old stereotype, or is there actually reason for concern? >> well, i think there's always a reason for concern when you reveal something about yourself that is personal and that people have been ostracized for in the past. and even now. so i think there is a concern. the first part of your question you said, are executives worried? i don't know. you'd have to ask one of them.

but i do have to say at cnn accident, the executives have been supportive to me. i don't know what happens and what's said in the offices and boardrooms, but outwardly, everyone's been extremely supportive. >> you say in your book it's doubly hard to be public as an african-american and a gay. explain why that is. >> doubly hard to be an african-american and gay. explain why that is. >> because of the church, the backbone of the community for such a long time has been the church, and the church teaches against home sexuality. not all black americans, not all black people have those beliefs about gay people, but it is a big part of black culture. and i felt that was a conversation that needed to be had. i talk about it in the book and all these interviews i'm doing. >> i know some of your family and some co-workers knew you were gay, but some others did not know. was it uncomfortable in the last

couple years to hide that part of yourself from the audience? >> it is uncomfortable. and sometimes you get used to it and you don't realize the discomfort because you're used to it. it's one of those things that you don't talk about. but i have to it will you from experience, just having done this a couple days, it does feel like the cliche, like the world is lifted from your shoulder. and you can be completely transparent, and i can be myself and i don't have to dance around things, and i don't have to figure out, oh, my gosh, how am i going to talk about this issue or does this person know i'm gay, do i have to disclose this to this person? everyone knows now, so it's not a big deal. let's move on. >> do you think this might have an impact on other who is might be considering, particularly in journalism, whether to go public about their sexuality? >> if there are any gay people in journalism who are watching and have seen the reaction just over the last week about me coming out, then if anyone who is of sound mind would certainly think about it, and i think it

would cross their minds. whether or not it's going to cause anybody or push anybody to come out of the closet, i don't know. but i think every little bit helps, and i think the more people who come out and who are gay and proud and who own it, i think it will be better for everyone. >> you also reveal in your book that you were sexually abused as a child by somebody close to you. you mention this on the air once during a story. was that an even more difficult thing to divulge about your past? >> no. you know, it's something, as having a conversation as i'm having with you with members of a church, and they were describing what they thought an abuser should look like, and i just wanted them not to be naive because people don't walk around with an "a" on their forehead for abuser or "m" for molester. it just came out. i didn't realize it would have the impact it did, but i'm glad i said it. after that, howie, i got phone books, you know, size from people who said thank you so much. you're telling my story, and we need to be aware of that.

so -- but it was more difficult actually to come out as gay than it was to talk about molestation. >> you use a phrase "black box thinking," and you talk about the day barack obama was inaugurated and wolf blitzer was interviewing you. you said as an african-american man i am absolutely overcome to see the first black president. some people might react to that as, well, maybe you're not a completely objective person on this question because of ration. >> yeah. well, i think that's absurd. i think that if we -- when we finally have a woman president, i would expect all women to celebrate that and all men and all people. and so if we have anyone who is doing anything that's a first, whether it's a jewish american, whether it's an hispanic-american or a black american, as someone who is a black person, i can identify with what president obama had to overcome to get where he is. but that doesn't take my brain

away. it doesn't make me -- doesn't, you know, take my objectivity away because i do have a brain, i'm smart enough, i've been doing this for a long time, i realize the country is progressing. i think that's an absurd statement. >> don lemon, thanks very much for talking to us about these very personal matters. >> thank you, howie. still to come, msnbc's ed schultz gets himself in hot watt we are a stunningly sexist slur. what's this option? that's new. personal pricing now on brakes. tell us what you want to pay. we do our best to make that work. deal! my money. my choice. my meineke.

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time now for our "media monitor," a weekly look at the hits and errors in the news business. ed schultz has a way of talking himself into trouble. the msnbc host used to brand his conservative targets as psycho talkers until management asked him to tone things down. he went too far again this week on his radio show with this rant against fox news's laura ingraham. >> that's right. he got down in the gutter and used a sexist slur. msnbc president, phil griffin, to his credit, responded by suspending schultz for one week, and schultz, to his credit, offered a full and rather emotional apology. >> on my radio show yesterday i used vile and inappropriate language when talking about talk show host laura ingraham. i am deeply sorry, and i apologize. it was wrong, uncalled for, and

i recognize the severity of what i said. i apologize to you, laura, and ask for your forgiveness. >> ingraham has accepted the apology but clearly wasn't happy about the episode. >> i wasn't all that surprised. this is what i think conservative women and to some extent african-american men who happen to be conservative and even latinos who are conservative routinely deal with. >> you know, griffin told me last fall that he's warned shultsz before about crossing the line. and schultz is a fiery liberal who sometimes gets burned by his own incendiary words. i hope he'll live up to his own promise to stop the nasty language. it was a sleazy story to begin with. did "good morning america" really have to work carrie campbell, the woman who claimed to have injected her young beauty pageant daughter with botox? even worse, the program agreed to pay her 10,000 bucks -- excuse me, a $10,000 photo lice