yes or no? get out of there or stay? >> i think it should be conditioned base and a contingency of force there to protect not only our employees and our state department employees but to make sure that there's some kind of a hedge against the country falling victim to either iranian influence or a civil war breaking out without any kind of protection. i think we need some kind of protection there on a limited basis. >> thank you very much. thank you for watching "in the arena." pi eliot spitzer is vacationing. for christine romans, i'm e.d. hill from new york. "piers morgan tonight" starts right now. the story that even hollywood couldn't make up. nobody would call their story happily ever after. at least not yet. drugs, scandal, trouble with the law. listen to what tatum o'neal told me about her own father. >> your brother said your father

gave him drugs. did he do that to you? >> you would have to ask him. i don't want to say incriminating things that are going to make it harder to kind of make peace and have it appealing. i know for sure my dad made a lot of mistakes. i'm sure that he's living with them today. >> tonight it's ryan o'neal's turn. >> it's not true. why would she say? ing like that? i never saw her do a drug or drink or smoke and i saw her every day. >> ryan o'neal for the hour. this is "piers morgan tonight." ryan o'neal's latest project is ryan and tatum on the o network. i got to thank you. i would say for most of the last

years of life, whenever i needed to succeed with a woman, my tactic has normally been to put "love story" in the dvd and let you sit back and work your magic. no woman could resist a man after they watched that. >> you soften them up. >> to me it was like the ultimate weeping. greatest es greatest. >> do you ever watch it? >> no. >> when was the last time? >> last night. no. it upsets me actually. >> why? >> i lost farrah to cancer and i just wonder how that all played out that way for me. one was such a big deal and so

successful and then in real life it was just the opposite. it was just tragedy. >> when you look back at your life, i mean, the show with tatum, i watched a few episodes, it's fascinating to watch. i interviewed tatum earlier today. i said to her. she's nearly my age. one year older than me. >> is that true? i could have had you? >> she aged better. >> it's not possible. i would have taken you home. >> what was interesting, i think, is the o'neals, have been in my head for the last 40 years. you are such famous people. not just movies you made, father and daughter relationship, the scandals, the ups, the downs, the tragedy, everything. she said one very interesting thing to me. it almost has been like for her in the family like being an observer like being soap opera

characters and not real people and she mused as to if that had been the root of the problem. the fame thing became so big that you couldn't have real relationships. >> maybe. i don't know. that sounds kind of complicated to me. what happens is the more success you garner, the busier you are. the more choices you have. the jobs that are offered that take you around the world. and that can create a kind of chaos in the home front. it certainly did in our house. >> that's a very honest appraisal. the impression i got from tatum is everyone wants to play out the tatum hates her dad story line that in many ways you saved her from a life with her mother who was very dysfunctional. had many issues and problems herself. and that life with you was a better option for her. however, chaotic it was it was,

it was a better option. >> i had taken her mother to court and tried to get legal custody of the children because they were struggling on the ranch. they lived on a ranch. sort of a ranch. and i lost. the judge said give her another chance. and it was just -- so then she came to me. she came to me. a very fine actress. wonderful actress. i learned a lot from her. she adored her kids. but she did struggle. we made a deal that i could help her with her problems financially but she would have to sign the children over to me. i made a deal that we could put them in a school out of state so that i wasn't going to give them more influence than she had and i wouldn't take the child support payments away. they would continue with mom. i made all of those -- i made that agreement.

off they went to a school in arizona called tree haven which had horses and i thought it might really be wonderful. for the younger boy, griffin, it was. he joined in immediately and got involved. tatum struggled terribly. >> when you look back if you were your own biggest critic here, what would you say you were like as a father? >> great. hands on. not great. that's funny. hands on. absolutely. hands on. ask them. i was always strangling them. no. i found it very hard. there was never a mother and a father. it was just the father playing both parts. i was only just fair at each. >> it's tougher than people think. >> you know.

you must know. especially if they win academy awards at the age of nine. >> if you had your chance again with tatum because she was an incredibly gifted young actress. she won an academy award prop pepro propelling her into a new level of fame. she felt she had been pushed into it by you. into show business. into acting. >> wait a second. i had a friend who was a director. he read a script. he called me and he asked me about tatum. i said i just got her into a new school in arizona. she is struggling there. i have something she should read. you should read for her. a story. a movie. now, this is a fine director. he wanted to see tatum. he didn't want to hire her. she just wanted to see her.

i said she's in arizona. bring her here for a day. so we were driving in the car towards home where he's waiting and i said you want to be in a movie with your dad? convince this guy. she said i'll try. and the rest is history. >> it's history that you were controlling is the point i would make. i understand completely having heard you tell the story about arizona why you did this. you clearly felt this was a good escape route for her. she clearly now for whatever reason -- by the way, she was a lot less critical of you than i thought she might be. >> she may have known i was in the other room. she's warming up to -- >> let me play a clip from the interview i just did with her. i want you to listen to this and see what your reaction is. >> i have seen the dark side like that. i have gone to hell and back. i did almost die. i did shoot cocaine and i did

lose my kids and i did get them back. i put all of our family through a lot of hell. i feel like how lucky am i that i can sit here and be in a good place and be able to talk to you and talk to my dad and have him maybe get to know him now and not a junky and not dead and maybe he'll be proud of me and maybe not. you know. maybe he won't love the tatum that i am today. but i hope so. >> that's your idea of a compliment. he may like me, may not, i don't know. >> i thought it was quite honest. >> she's honest. it's her version of it. >> i didn't think she was being overly critical there. >> she has been. years and years of it. >> not there. >> bless her heart. >> isn't that being quite tough with her? >> i'm sorry? >> aren't you being quite tough on her when you say that.

your reaction to i hope he's proud of me but i'm not sure he will be. >> why wouldn't i be? the girl he's describing. what kind of a man who wouldn't be proud of someone who made all of these sacrifices and all of this growth and wants me to respect her, to love her. >> do you? >> yeah. i do. she's hard. she's a beauty. great beauty. there are times in which she's magnificent. she has made my life hard. hard. and farrah's. hard. because i was never complete again when she left. it didn't matter who or why or what, i could not get her out of my mind. she was always there. i want to add something else. something early on. that is we had stopped making

movies after "paper moon." she had. she was exhausted. she kept saying the $60,000 she had and she was going to use that money to buy this ranch. i said what $60,000? she said for the move. i said 6 not 60. she said but i won the academy. i know. i know. it's not the first movie if it's a success. it's the next couple. so we kept driving along. she said maybe i should do a second movie. one week later we got the script -- i got the script of "bad news bears." she had great arm. used to play frisbee on the beach every day. she could throw it 60 yards. they offered so much money. i really had to consider it. it kept going up because i kept

saying no trying to keep her in this life. when they started to get to gross position, i wondered if years from now she wouldn't turn on me for not letting her be in that movie. >> let's hold it there and discuss what happened after that. this is fascinating. [ male announcer ] introducing the ultimate business phone --

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back to my special guest, ryan o'neal. a fascinating way there that you let tatum make a second movie. she's an oscar winning movie star at this ridiculous age and life for you is never quite the same again. you, yourself, at the time have been propelled into the stratosphere after "love story." >> make my day. >> and "love story" was iconic for all of you a crazy period. when you look back on what happened, when did you start to see things just go wrong do you

think? >> tatum and i were enormously close. perhaps too close. i can't say it was unhealthy because i didn't feel anything unhealthy about it. we went everywhere together. sometimes we were in one room for days. it was just the way it was. she was very smart. she had these strange childlike instincts that were always right about me and other women. she would go -- >> she says you're an incurable romantic. >> whatever that is i am. we had a blood tie but it was hard on me. it was harder and harder. she was possessive. she was strangling me. she was strangling me and then all of a sudden out of the midst came this blonde woman.

she introduced me to. tatum introduced me in this way. she saw lee majors on a street in toronto. she said my dad is here visiting me. he and i had been friends years before, before he knew farrah. we weren't friends anymore. we had fought over a girl. she said my dad is here. why don't you call me. he did. he called me in my room. i went and had a drink with him. it was fine to see him again. he said when are you leaving? i said tomorrow. he said come home and have dinner with me and farrah. i have a racketball court and we can play. so i went. i flew home with him. he had an extraordinary racketball court. he had a more extraordinary wife. breathtaking and so sweet and

loving. and she didn't love him. i could see that. first day i could see that. it was over. something strange had happened and it was dead. too bad for him i thought. then i went back a couple more times but it was to -- >> too bad for him but good for me, right? >> not yet. not yet. but he kept calling me back up to play. he only lives a few blocks from me. i went twice more. he said let's have a party. i'm going up to do a movie. let's have a party. at the party he said, you know, farrah is going to be lonely with me gone. take her out. take her places. you know people. take her out. i had played some music for them by a blues guitarist and he left. he went off to location. i didn't call her. weeks went by. i didn't call her.

but i saw in the newspaper that the artist was in town in los angeles. i called her. i asked her to come see him with me. she did. that was it. we never were out of each other's sight for about 17 more years. >> she was the love of your life? >> yeah. without a doubt. blinded by it. >> for tatum, she's now a 15-year-old girl, a young, very beautiful blonde girl herself. >> in the beginning she was still in toronto. she had another four weeks to go on the picture. i had a head start. i knew i was going to need it. she would be coming home and i didn't know what there would be. i didn't know. >> she said she felt a sense of abandonment but i got the feeling it was a jealousy there that you had this amazing

blonde, beautiful woman who wasn't her suddenly taking over your interest. >> what do you do when you're in that spot? i didn't do it right. >> what would you do differently? >> i was getting pulled. farrah didn't pull. farrah was actually hopeful that tatum and i would at least have some kind of a peace but it wasn't to be. it wasn't to be. >> she didn't blame farrah at all. she blamed you. i got the sense that she's a young teenage beautiful blonde herself and the light of her life, her dad, you said how close you were, suddenly had somebody else. >> yeah. >> and that was to her the fracturing moment because she felt she had lost you. >> eventually she did because she was not supportive. she was cruel. she wanted it to go down.

she didn't see it as a love affair. she did not see it like i saw it. she didn't help me. i needed help. >> she was very young though, wasn't she? >> she was a blonde 15 a minute ago. now she's young. >> still a young blonde 15. >> at 15 tatum was like crack a whip she was so smart. >> enough to provide you with the kind of moral support that you were hoping for. >> i was starting to feel like i should keep them apart because tatum was saying likes like, has he beaten you yet? i realize she was going to try to take it out her own way. her mother worked a little bit like this too. she's her mother's daughter. she's a scorpio like her mother. oh, my god. i wasn't enthusiastic about us all together anymore because she wasn't done until it had failed.

and the stronger that farrah and i got, the weaker tatum and i got. i saw it. i didn't know what to do. i didn't do anything. >> if you had your time again, what would you do differently to try and resolve it? >> i would have done something differently because i hate how it went. >> it must have broken your heart. >> absolutely. absolutely. >> i couldn't think of anything worse. inseparable relationship with your daughter and then suddenly it's all gone. >> it was all gone. i used to hang -- i remember when she got pregnant and she was going to have a baby. i thought when she has her baby and she sees what it is to be a mother and how much she loves her baby and know how much i love her, it will be clear to her. she'll also see how hard it is to raise a baby and she knows i raised her single handedly from

birth. she'll take stock. >> she never did? >> she never did. she never did. >> let's take a short break. when we come back, i want to talk about farrah in more detail and the tragedy of the end of her life. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. her morning begins with arthritis pain. that's a coffee and two pills. the afternoon tour begins with more pain and more pills. the evening guests arrive. back to sore knees. back to more pills. the day is done but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve.

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>> today i've got cancer but on

the other hand i'm alive. so i guess i'm great. yeah. right now i am great. my life goes on and so does my fight. >> emotional moment there from your longtime love farrah fawcett who so sadly died and you were there right through the end. you have been together 30 years on and off up and down even as you were looking there i can tell it's incredibly painful for you. >> i can't look at it. i can't look at it. what bothers me the most is that there was turmoil during my love affair with farrah. a lot of it caused by my family, by my kids. all of them. particularly tatum. i just think that if she had never met us, would she still be

alive today? nobody knows what causes cancer, do they really? she didn't smoke. she didn't drink. she exercised every day. and she believed in her good health. and then we came along. the four of us. and gradually she got weaker. i don't know. >> do you really believe that? >> i think it's highly possible. >> the stress of the whole thing was -- >> i wasn't able to straighten out the mess that we were in and we sucked her in. >> obviously it's a harsh thing

to say. >> sorry. maybe it isn't true but it's possible. >> it's harsh. for tatum to have to hear that would be very harsh. >> sorry, tatum. you probably know too. for five years i have stayed close to the hearth and saw you were healthy and happy, all of you, and even supported their mothers and now i have met somebody and you're not encouraging me. you don't see it the way i want you to see it. i want you to love her too. i want us to be a family. but you have to feel like i feel towards her. look at her, you can. she was a good woman. she never, never, never did they ever fight overtly, tatum or any of my children with her. they adored her.

my boys had a sauna bath at the beach and when they heard that farrah -- tatum, i get them mixed up. when they knew farrah was going to take a sauna, there was a place to hide and they could maybe see her naked, you see. she was always late for her sauna. by the time we got in there, we need to call 911 to get them out because they're completely dehydrated. i say that because that was the excitement they had having tatum around -- farrah around. see what i mean. having farrah around was thrilling to these boys but not to tatum. not to tatum. she saw that. she resented that. >> even as you talk about them, they are so interwoven in your emotional life. i just get a sense that you had this incredible love of both of

these women but it couldn't happen at the same time. this was the real greek tragedy of the whole thing for you. you couldn't have one and have the other in the same way. >> why? >> because one felt very neglected and left out. >> because she created a demon seed and it wasn't right that she be around. it wasn't right. she would tear us down not build us up. >> tatum to be fair to you in our interview, didn't say anything critical about farrah at all. she said before she died she actually did talk to her and she enjoyed that experience. >> right. and farrah told me about it. >> how did you feel about that? >> it was okay except farrah said she blames you. i said that's what you talked

about? you're lying here and she's busting me up. blaming me. >> the famous line from "love story" is love means never having to say your sorry. did you ever say sorry to tatum? >> many times. i crawled. i crawled. it didn't work. it meant nothing. i didn't even get invited to her wedding. >> how did that make you feel? >> it was horrible. what an insult. my daughter is getting married and she was given away by one of the mcenroes. >> when we come back, i'll tell you one of my theorys about what may have been the real problem. >> please. i need a theory. that's good, right? good job.

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i suppose having interviewed tatum and sat opposite of her like this and seen someone who appeared to be fragile and damaged but kind of determined to try to stay clean now and rebuilding whatever she can with her life and particularly with you, there's no doubt the dominant problem in her life has been drugs and an ongoing addiction and increasingly bad one starting from a very young age. >> that's not true. that's not true. i don't know why she wants to

establish that kind of a -- it's just not true. 11 years old. 9 years old. is she crazy? why say something about herself like that? i never saw her do a drug. i never saw her get drunk or smoke or anything. i never saw that. i saw her every day. i know she was strong against her mother and strong against me. she didn't want anybody doing anything. she was always aggressive that way. why would she paint a picture of herself that she was an 11-year-old addict? it's so stupid. she made five or six movies beyond there. she couldn't have if that were the case. no one would hire her. i don't understand it. there's enough that went wrong that you don't need to make things up. >> she said that she had -- it was reported that she had a couple suicide attempts when they was 13. do you believe that? >> i know of one. i thought it was faked to tell

you the truth. >> do you still think that? >> uh-huh. i do. >> you are sort of implying she's a bit of a fantacist. >> of course. sorry, honey. >> the moment you were reunited was at farrah's funeral. >> no. her son had asked her to come to lunch. we went to malibu to a restaurant at a nice, lucky place for us. she joined us for lunch. we had a wonderful lunch together. >> when was that? >> that was several weeks before the funeral. >> she tells the story of according to her she hadn't seen you before the funeral and you hadn't recognized her when you saw that. >> i don't know why she doesn't tell the truth. when she was a little girl, we used to dance. i would say to her, do you have a drink? do you have a car? she would say my boyfriend is here.

i said really? who he is? she said joe frazier. we did this a lot. when she came into my arms and i put the casket in the hearse and turned around and she jumped into my arms. i said to her, do you have a drink? do you have a car? because that was our thing. i wanted to tell her that i had never forgotten what touched us. but to make something else out of it and instead of saving me, she let me drown making me look like i'm trying to make out with someone while my girl is being driven away. why? why do you want to make your dad look like that? why? that's what's hard to understand. >> how are you dealing with life without farrah? >> how do i look? >> not good.

i mean, you look good but emotionally you seem just on the edge. >> it's hard this stuff. we did eight shows. we never really got it worked right. she's determined to undress me, take my medals -- >> tatum is? >> yes. when i am stripped of everything, she'll take me back i think but i'm not ready. my pride is here too. i want my epileps. >> how are you coping without farrah? >> you know, farrah was a very strong presence in my life. so strong. she permeated my mind and my

being. she still does. she had that kind of hold on me. i live in the same house that we lived in together. the things that are nice in my house are the things that she got me. and so i hear songs that we loved and it stabs me and brings her back and i'm okay with that. i had somebody. i had somebody that i loved. okay. and i have a son who struggles with his life because he's tempted to join her, and he's 26. he's tempted to go because he misses her so much and he feels he shamed himself so much and it's tricky. >> it's an awful situation. >> it's crazy.

>> what can you say to him? >> i say to him that's not what she wants. she wants you to have a wonderful life. life. live it for her. she doesn't want you to join her. and he agrees but i'm not sure he does. he just says he agrees. i'm sorry. none of it has been resolved. it's still all open sores and may always be whatever we do on our show, there has been headway. >> do you feel you have gotten anywhere with tatum? do you feel like you are getting somewhere? no matter how bad the relationship sounds to the outside world, you know it was better five or ten years ago. >> we had no communication at all then. >> you have something now. >> we do have something now. >> you are both pretty hurt. i can tell.

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>> i do all my best work just before we -- >> if people could see what's happening in the breaks, it would be more compelling. it's a fascinating discussion

we've been having. i'm going to ask you, do you still go to the movies? do you like movies? >> i don't go very often. i get them. they send them to me. the academy does. i know everything that's out there. >> would you like to make another great film? do you have one in you? >> sure. does anyone want to use me, i don't know. i don't think so. >> why not? >> i don't know. because there are better actors out there now. i was only so-so. i just had wonderful vehicles. >> do you feel like you wasted an opportunity or did you enjoy it brilliantly in the wrong way after "love story" became this huge, global hit? >> look, i did "what's up doc" and that was a huge success. you know, by the way, tatum was with me the whole time. she use ed to help me get my wi

off at night. all that met we were a team, you see. we were a team. she took the bobby pins out of my hair. >> the one thing tatum said to me when she was being critical of you, she said -- let me play a clip. watch this and see what you think. see if you agree with her. >> my dad has that kind of seductive, soft, sweet, gentle, loving side. so it's always so confusing when that side isn't always there and you're a little bit off balance because he has a temper side. so that's him. that's what we all love. and so he isn't all bad and he isn't all great but neither are any of us. >> well, the thing that tatum is clever about leaving out is that does a man just have a temper or does something trigger the temper? does he just wake up mad or does

something happen in the course of the day that makes him angry? >> do you think you have a temper? >> sure. i think they helped me develop it too. my children were too wild. they were so wild. >> how much of that do you blame yourself for? >> well, we have the genetic makeup but did i -- was i arrested 40 times? i have a son that's been arrested so many times, i don't mean redmond, but look up the log. it's stunning for griffin. >> do you have any relationship with him? >> no. i've never been more relieved, i'm sorry to say. >> he's your flesh and blood? >> huh? >> he is your flesh and blood? >> i don't know, i'm going to get dna. i don't know, really. i found him -- i don't want to talk about it. my kids were wild! and that includes tatum, she

was, too. but was she a drug user? no. the only time i ever found out about drugs was that she -- i had a home up in big sur, california. i was up there with a couple of buddies and she said, can carry and i join you? did you take the dog with you? can we come up? i said, sure. there's room. and they started up pacific coast highway and they crashed and tatum was thrown out of the car and scraped up on the highway. and they called me from the hospital and i sent a limo to pick them up and take them to big sur. she was bruised up. not pretty. a year later she told me she had taken a qualudes and so had the driver. she wasn't even driving. they had no seatbelts on. a qualudes? you took a qualudes and you drove? >> did you go to the hospital after that? >> no. i had a limo right there come

and get her. it was in ventura county. limo went? >> you didn't go. >> i had a 400 mile drive to go down so i had a limo bring them up and bring her up. i took a look at both of them and said, we have to go home and we got on a plane and flew right back to l.a. and started getting her skin grafting. >> no doubt from my interview she certainly infers and griffin has said this, that you provided or allowed drugs to be around them from a young age, 11 and 12. >> that's true. >> it is true? >> not around them. not around them. they were -- >> listen to what she says. >> don't let me listen to griffin because he's -- he sells story. >> this is a tape. >> your brother said that your father gave him drugs when he was, i think, 11. did he do that to you? >> you'll have to ask him. >> why are you reluctant to say?

>> because we have a show we're doing and i don't want to say anything incriminating that will make it harder to kind of make peace and have appealing. every time i kind of bring up the bad stuff, it just doesn't go towards making a healing and getting us to a better place. i know for sure my dad made a lot of mistakes. i'm sure that he's living with them today. >> now, she's been saying that for 25 years. she can't stop saying it. why? why does she do that? it's because she needs a reason for why she collapsed. why her career and her marriage, her children, they all went south. why did that happen? because i had a terrible childhood. she had a wonderful childhood. she met queen elizabeth. she travelled the world. she was a millionairess by the time she was 12. >> does that hurt?

>> she had a career. she had everything she wanted. she danced with michael jackson. he called every night. she was a happy camper. okay? >> you said this before we watched the clip, though, that there were drugs around when they were young. >> there were. it was malibu. it was a beach. people smoked and went swimming and went surfing and there was marijuana, there was. >> could they have been taking them without you know something. >> they could have been taking it, yes. oh, sure, and griffin was. not tatum, she would knock the out of your mouth. that's what bothers me. she's not being honest. >> but you gave them to griffin? >> no, no, but he had access. >> i'll come back and talk about your future. [ male announcer ] bridgestone is using natural rubber, producing products that save on fuel and emissions like ecopia tires... even making parts for solar panels that harness the sun's energy...

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because now...there's this.

ryan o'neal, it's been an extraordinary hour with you. >> thank you. >> i'd like to try to end it on a upbeat note for you. how do you see the future now? >> oh, the future? >> yeah. >> i don't know. the future is -- >> do you feel positive about it? >> yeah. i think this show will be effective and i'll tell you why. i think there's people out there watching that may have -- that will this will ring a bell. and, perhaps, even open eyes and

turn their relationships around, perhaps. that would be a huge benefit and i would take great pride in that. i would go on with it and'd keep going with tatum until we've locked it down. because i think that's what you have to do with people you love. >> you think you can? >> uh-huh, i do. i have to. >> what is you learned the most about yourself from making this show? >> from making this show? i'm a work in progress, which is a little sad at the age of 70. but i have a ways to go. >> you look great for 70, there are lots of positive. >> i had the makeup, don't be fooled. and i want to live a good