you sing in tribute to michael jackson at a service or whatever, what do you think you'd sing? >> how i feel about him, i would probably sing "never can say good-bye." >> can you sing a little bit, please. ♪ never can say good-bye no no no no i can never say good-bye ♪ because i won't. ♪ never can say good-bye ♪ no no no no no never can say good-bye ♪ latoya jackson lived her extraordinary life in the spotlight, now she's starting over. her looks, love life, strained relationship with her family, all of it makes headlines. that's what you know about her. do you know the real la toya?

>> piers, there are certain things i haven't told anyone. tonight, i'll tell you. >> tonight she speaks out what it was like growing up a jackson. >> there's a misconception of what people think the family is, what the family should be. >> marriage to an abusive manager. >> what was he doing to you? >> he was beating me. >> why she thinks michael was murdered. >> michael told me they were going to murder him. he was afraid. >> latoya jackson for the hour, this is "piers morgan tonight." la toya jackson's second medical quarter is called "starting over." la toya joins us now. welcome, la toya. >> thank you, thank you for having me. >> listen, it is a fascinating book title, i would say, and a great cover picture of you and your brother, michael. because of course, the irony, you're starting over, michael can't. >> absolutely. >> he's no longer with us. he's a big figure in this book. tell me about the motivation. was it michael dying that

motivated you to write this new book? >> actually, no, piers. i started writing this book in 2008. and i kept writing and kept writing. there was always something that was coming up that prevented me from actually putting it out. i finally got the nerve to put it out eventually, it was on the back burner for quite a while, and then muk ankle of course -- the tragedy happened with him. that's when i moved forward because i felt it was something that was necessary. i think it's important for everybody to start over in their life when it is not going properly or the way they think it should go or should be going. or if there's problems in their life. however, michael doesn't have and didn't have the opportunity to start over, which is so sad because he's not with us any longer. >> i interviewed him once, fascinating experience. >> you did? >> yeah. he was smart. >> yes. >> he was funny. he had two voices. one was quite high pitched, gentle voice. when he talked about business, bam. >> oh, yeah. >> down it came. >> everything changes, doesn't

it? and you see the seriousness in him when he talks about the business and how he's really involved in what he's doing in his career and how he's passionate about his job. >> really focused. and he knew about business in a way that really surprised me. i saw then that he was a kind of chameleon character. you know, in many ways. i'm sure he could be a totally different michael given the situation that he was in with all sorts of different people. fascinating guy. and i said this before, the greatest entertainer, certainly i've ever seen. >> thank you. >> do you think if he had lived, would he have ever had a chance to start over? do you think? >> that's what hurts me more than anything else, because he could have started over, and now he's not able to start over. it's so important for everyone who's going through anything in their life to start over. and yes, michael could have started over. my biggest regret is that i wasn't there to help him start over. i feel he probably would have been here today had he started over properly.

>> let's talk about you for a moment. how has it been for you starting over? >> it was a very difficult task for me to start over because there were so many different interruptions when i was about to start over and i would have to put everything on the back burner, but i think in everybody's life, we go through different journeys, different paths, and it doesn't always take us the way we think it is going to take us, but i feel that every life experience that we experience in life is a left handing tool and it's up to us to find out what is the best way for us to go when we're taking these tasks and different roads, paths through life. i think you learn something in everything that you do. >> it always seems to me -- >> and it's important to start over. >> in this book, you are searingly honest. it is in parts difficult to read how open and frank you are about some difficult stuff. >> you have to be. especially if you're starting over. you have to be honest with yourself. >> you never used to be. i remember this seven,

eight-year wall of silence you had. >> i was very quiet, very shy, and i was very controlled. but now things have changed. i'm very free, i'm very open. when you start over, you have such a wonderful feeling because you know, this is the beginning of the rest of your life, and you can make that better. and it's up to you to make that better. >> i interviewed your sister janet who i love. >> isn't she adorable? >> she said you were the diva of the family. >> janet would say that. she would say that. >> i do think, and i love her tearily, but i do think pretty rich, coming from janet jackson. >> that's what she thinks. i think that, well, actually depends how you interpret diva. janet, more or less, she's on the tomboyish side and i was never that way, she used to get angry when we were younger, my mother would say you have to go to etiquette school. she would look at me, it's all your fault, it's because of you i have to go to etiquette school, you act too much like a girl. and she was defiant, didn't want to go.

i have a memory in my head about jan. we took her to the school and my mother was driving and jan was in the back of the mercedes. the minute my mother got out to open the door, jan locks the door, locks my mother out, props her foot against the door and holds it like this, no, you're not going to make me get out of this car, i'm not going to. she was rebellious. she refuses to go to etiquette and charm school. didn't want that. >> still has that naughty streak, i think. >> but she's a wonderful person, and after all, she didn't need it. she's a lady today. >> how did you get together? you come from what appears on the outside, let's be honest, a fairly dysfunctional family simply because of the ludicrous fame you had to live in for so long. >> right. >> when i talked to janet, i found that she was -- i don't mean to be patronizing but refreshingly normal to talk to. >> yes, of course. >> i didn't get a sense of somebody that's a crackball. i got a sense of a smart

business woman, and particular honest about what you've been too, the particular difficulties of growing up a jackson. for all of you, it has been tough surviving that period. >> well, i think what it is, piers, when you grow up in the spotlight, that everything is magnetized and everything is totally actually blown out of proportion. and in the jacksons' case, it has been that throughout the entire careers of everyone. and there's always this misconception of what people think the family is or the way the family should be. but the fact of the matter is everybody's quiet, everybody's shy. jovial, we just love to have fun. people mentioned the word dysfunctional, i don't see that. i know every family has their problems, i'm sure the jacksons had their share of problems, we all do. but it's nothing compared to what i've been seeing on reality tv. it's like, people really act this way? we were nothing like that. we're so quiet and shy. it's like, well, geez.

>> are youed only -- because of the tragedy of michael, as a family are you oddly closer now than you've ever been, do you think? >> i would love to say yes we're closer than we've ever been, but it is interesting, piers, because when a loved one in your family, michael was the first that we've lost, and it hurt so badly, and everybody wants to be on the same page, and it's not always that way. i think it was very difficult when it came to the plan of what we were going to do with him and the burial. everybody had different opinions and we would have to vote on which way we were going with it. so you want that togetherness, you want people to come closer. yes, it is closer in a sense, but at the same time, no, it isn't. which is really sad. >> i want to show you a clip when you were young performing with some of your family, see what your memory is when you see this. >> hey, you guys are going to plan on bringing out a replacement. ladies and gentlemen, the jackson girls!

>> how's it going, pipsqueak? ♪ oh, baby, give me one more chance ♪ >> when i watch that, obviously the end there you get to the jackson brothers and off they go, do this amazing thing. a little part of me, i'll be honest with you, it feels slightly, you know, i've got three children, like you all had your childhood, your innocence taken away from you. you didn't have much choice. you got pushed into this world. and that's what you knew and that was your life, and you didn't have a normal existence, when you were young, many of you. >> well, this was our life, and that is what we knew and that's all we knew, and how could someone rob or take something away from you if you don't know anything else? >> when you look back on it now, do you feel that?

>> when i look back on it, it was fun times, wonderful times. i wish i had known a little more about the world because then you could control your life better because you know what you're about to face. however, no, i have no regrets when it comes to that. i think that -- when i look at those brothers, and it's just amazing to me. because i used to watch the girls just faint over them and und i couldn't understand to save my life. what are you fainting over? screaming and paramedics running in and the whole bit. it was like come on, they're just guys. i couldn't understand that. you grew up with the music and with them, and to me they were nothing special. they weren't special at all. for outsiders, they were screaming and oh, you're so wonderful, jermaine waved at me! so, he waved at you. >> you're like, he's my brother, what are you getting at? >> it's so funny, though. but i am not taking it for granted. it's so funny when you think about how people look at you and you see yourself totally differently. we see ourselves as very normal. people are like i can't believe i touched you and things of that nature. >> do you ever wish you hadn't gone into show business? >> i didn't want to go into show

business. i refused to. i wanted to go into business law and i wanted to go to school to be an attorney. eventually i got off, went to school for a little whole, and my father took me right out. he says, no, you're going to sing like everybody else in this family. you're born here to entertain and this is what you're going to do. when he did it, i didn't want to do it, but i loved it. ever since he's done that i've said, wow, this is great, i kind of like this a lot. >> i talked to janet, she clearly had a kind of -- slightly bittersweet view of your father. he's an incredibly tough guy. he's a disciplinarian. he did what he did i don't think for his own gain. he did it because he believed in you as children. he thought the only way you make it big is if he kept pushing, pushing, pushing, and very hard, particularly for the girls i think to deal with that. >> he was absolutely right. you must remember, he was a disciplinarian, and my father at the same time, he had that drive. he saw in his children how big they could be. he saw the talent.

if you don't make people and children, of course, if you don't show them that if this is what you truly love, you must really, really go headstrong with it, and my father was there to make sure everyone did what they needed to do as far as show business was concerned. he would rehearse and rehearse them and they became perfectionists. about look at the result today. i thank him very much. if it wasn't for my father, we wouldn't have had the jackson 5, the jacksons, michael or anyone for that matter. >> after the break, i want to talk more about your dad. i want to ask you really if you ever thought it was an abusive relationship. then i want to talk about what is clearly an abusive relationship, the one you had in your marriage which makes for horrifying reading. drivers have told us they like a crossover that can go the distance. that's why we gave the chevy equinox an epa estimated 32 miles per gallon highway. but do passengers appreciate making less stops at the pump?

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my special guest, la toya jackson. before the break, we were talking about your dad, joe. tough man, hard man in many ways. did you ever feel that in his relentless pursuit for you guys to be successful, that the relationship you had with him crossed the line, that it became abusive in any way? >> no, and let me tell you why i say no to you. is because my father instilled

the music in us. it was already there but he made sure that we knew what was right and what was wrong when it came to that. he was a disciplinarian as i said earlier. i also feel when you're young as children, you don't understand when your parents are trying to discipline you. you feel that it's wrong, they shouldn't do this, this way and that way -- >> did you ever get spanked? >> yes, i got one spanking. as you get older, you realize he was doing it for the best of us, that's what he was doing. but you must also remember, piers, during the days and that time, people did spank children. today it's totally different. >> that's completely true. actually, you know, i think jab net said he hit her once with a belt or something. >> i got one spanking. >> what she found more abusive in a way seemed to me when she said to me the really sad thing, she tried to call him dad or daddy once, and he stopped her and said, "no, my name is joe." i found that as a parent odd to listen to. and i think she -- i got a sense that she wished she had been

able to have a normal father in that respect. >> he was a normal father. i think probably -- no, i don't know the experience with the joe and the dad part with her. but i do know -- >> what did you call him? >> joseph. we all do. that's what we know him as, joseph. >> everybody else would call their father dad or daddy. or father. >> that's what we called him, and we called our mother mother. >> do you still call him joseph? >> yes, of course. of course. >> if you called him dad, what would happen? >> i don't know. he'd probably be shocked. >> you look exactly like janet. >> do i? >> you look exactly the same. >> that's funny. don't start me laughing. >> how do you get on with him now? your dad? >> very well. i love my father very well. i'm so happy that i'm older and i'm able to see things differently than i did when i was a bit younger. so i understand. as you get older, i don't have children, but when you start with nieces and nephews and begin to raise them, watch them, you understand and realize why your parents did the things they

did. >> do you think modern parents are a bit soft with their kids? >> i do. i think parents are too legally yent with their kids today. i think that -- i think we've really, really and truly lost the respect factor from children today. children have absolutely no respect in regards to elder people, elderly people. i would love to see children much more respectful. >> i think that's completely true. >> of course it is. don't you find that true? when you see -- >> i do. and i think the discipline thing is a really interesting subject. i know with my kids, kept inside all day, they become monsters. a bit of fresh air, playing sport, whatever it may be, they get it out of their system. when they're really aggressive, you can't just sit there and watch them terrorizing people. which is what happens. kids can be like that. >> how are they with you, do they speak back to you? are they -- >> sometimes, and i don't like it. >> what do you say when they speak back? >> i have pretty strong words with them. >> really? >> yes. >> do they learn from that? >> i'm like you, i'm big on

respect. particularly for the young to their elder. i think it's really important. >> if you don't teach your children respect, how are they going to go out in the world and respect other people? you must teach them this so they can understand. you give them respect, you get respect back, and that's so important. >> does your mother ever have a kind of slightly complicated relationship with the way your father treated you all or did she go along with it completely? >> my mother was very quiet, she was very shy, she was very quiet. i don't know if she went along with it or not because she would never really say. sometimes she would say, oh, that's just joe's way of expressing his love, or showing his love. which my father, don't get me wrong, he's a very loving person. >> has he ever told you he loves you? >> yeah, all the time. as a matter of fact -- >> but he didn't when you were younger. >> when we were younger, no, no. >> do you remember the first time he said that? >> i think i told him first. i said joseph, i love you very, very much, and you mean the world to me, i want you to know that.

and piers, i had seen a man that i had never seen before. he became like a humble boy, his eyes got watery and the whole bit. >> really? >> yeah. you must remember something which is very interesting. i don't care who you are in life, everybody is looking for love. everybody wants to be accepted. so when my father heard those words, you have to remember, it was almost as if, geez, i've never heard this before from any of my children. this is wonderful. it made him feel good. it made him feel like he was someone. because after all, we're all children. no matter how old or young, we are all children. i always become analytical. with people. if someone's mean to me or saying something very negative i say, what went wrong in their life? what went wrong in their childhood? why are they reacting the way they're reacting? so what i did is i began to study my father, watch what he was doing, watch his ways, learn a little more about his parents, and that taught me about him.

i learned that my father was a loner, his mother wasn't there for him. he was the one that raised his brothers and sisters, he's the one who took care of them, he's the one who walked five miles to school every day -- >> he never really had love himself. >> he never had love himself. >> didn't know how to express it. >> you can't give away what you don't have. if you don't have love here to give away, how can you give it away? but he did have love in there, he just didn't know how to express it. now he does. >> did michael ever say i love you to joseph, do you know? >> yes, he has. he did say that to him, yes, absolutely, absolutely. it was something that we all said, we shared that with our mother all the time. with my father, it was probably in the past, maybe 10, 12 years. yeah. >> he's a fascinating character. >> he's a good guy though. >> i suspect history will be kinder to him than past history has. >> oh, yes, it would be. i think it's a very bad my-conception of him.

and when you don't know how to handle that misconception, it makes it sometimes even more difficult. but as you come around and see the love and embrace the love and embrace it the way he's embracing it, he becomes a better person. and i see that. >> we'll take a short break. we'll come back and talk about what i was going to get to in that segment. fascinating about your tad. and that's the marriage you had with jack gordon, who emerges in a pretty horrendous manner from this book. i want to talk to you about that. [ male announcer ] look at this, bridgestone is using natural rubber, researching ways to enhance its quality and performance, and making their factories more environmentally friendly. producing products that save on fuel and emissions, and some that can be reused again. ♪ and promoting eco-friendly and safety driving campaigns. ♪ one team. one planet.

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back with la toya jackson. some of the most difficult stuff to read in the book, it is a powerful book in many ways, is about your manager, who became your husband, jack gordon. i've got to say, he comes over as a complete monster in this book. and it sort of prompts the question when i talk to you now, you seem intelligent, you seem quite worldly wise. how did you ever get together with a man like this in the first place? >> it started with my having to go to japan and my mother wasn't able to go with me, and she asked my father if he could go with me to japan, and my father wasn't able to go with me, so they sent jack gordon, my father sent him, gordon, to go to japan.

once we got in japan, he took my passport, told me i wasn't going back. that was it. >> he seized control of your life? >> yes, seized control of my life. and you have to remember, back then, i was -- i didn't know what i know today. meaning, i was a jehovah witness. i didn't know the outside world. i live by the model of bad association. if i did associate it was only with jehovah's witnesses. you trust everybody, you believed what they say, thought they were honest with you. he took my passport, never allowed me to go back home. >> how did you feel when he did that? >> i couldn't understand why. i said please, can i have it. it was no, no, and no. please. and from there he went to germany, and just you're not going home. you're not going back. but why? i couldn't understand why. it was one of those situations that i wasn't strong enough to

say i'm not going to listen to you, i'm not going, i don't want to do this. i just went along with it. >> where were your family in all of this, why weren't they steaming in to save you? >> my family was there, they would call, see how i was doing. he monitored the calls, he wouldn't let me speak or say certain things. it became a very complicated relationship, very difficult. the control factor, you must remember, piers, this is important about women, that's why i say it is very important to start over, is that it starts very slowly, very gradually. they start saying you're going here because you have to do this. and i just got this contract for you to do this, you have to do this. >> it all sort of makes a bit of sense. >> it makes sense and you're going along with it because -- >> you are being sucked into something from which there's almost no escape. >> you're being sucked into something, there's deadlines and things you have to make according to him, and you're beginning to believe this, because it's making sense, it sounds true. but at the same time, in the back of his mind he has a motive. he has a plan. you don't know that because you're not part of that plan,

but you are the plan. >> you say in the book he forced you to marry him. >> yes, absolutely. >> even then, you tried to get away. >> then i tried to get away. i tried desperately to get away at that point and i wasn't able to. >> did you love him? >> i walked out. many, many times. no, i did not. >> never loved him? >> no. we were manager and artist. he would always ask me that. he would always say, do you love me? and my answer would always be, i love everybody. i love everybody. that would be my answer. >> when did he first start being physically abusive to you? >> it was shortly after we were together. it was shortly -- it started, piers -- little, terrible things. just answering the phone. "you don't answer the phone." squeezing my hand, then twisting and turning it. why are you doing that to me, because you don't know, you don't understand what's going on. i said, "okay, i won't." reaction, phone rings. then there it is again. you don't answer the phone. and all of a sudden, "i told you not to answer the phone." there's a slap. then you're thinking oh, no, i better obey.

then you become very -- you start obeying. >> at its worst, how bad was the violence? >> well, it put me in the hospital. >> what was he physically doing to you? >> he was beating me. he took -- i think the worst beating that i -- well. there were so many. i'm trying to -- one of the worst beatings that i endured was probably when we were in italy. and i asked for an annulment. i said, it's been six months, please can i get an annulment, you told me i could. and he told me, he said, "listen, i own you. don't you understand that? i own you, i own you." he took my head and started beating it on the corner of the desk in the hotel room, table and the desk. and i remember falling back and coming back and i go please, please, don't, he kept beating my head on the table. i recall trying to get over to the telephone to call downstairs to the operator. and i managed to do that, i called the operator, and you're

in italy, and nobody came up. no one came up. he hung the phone up. nobody came up or anything. the next day he sends in the au pair, as you guys call it. sends hare up. she knockth on the door and she asks me, she says, la toya, i i'd like to pack your clothes, we're leaving in an hour, or whatever time it was. and i said, no, it's okay, i'll do it myself. she said, is there anything i can get you? and i said, well, yeah, can you get a bucket of ice for me these? just leave it at the door, knock and let me know you've left it at the door. she said sure. she did that. and i waited for about three minutes to make sure she wasn't around, and i opened the door to get the ice, as i reached down, there she was, standing, and piers, first thing came out of my mouth, i don't know why i said this, i can't even tell you to this day, she looked at me, she went, oh! because my eyes were all black and just -- everything. and i said, "i slipped in the shower."

i don't know where that came from. >> classic excuse. >> i said i slipped in the shower. i was protecting him for some silly reason. she didn't say anything. she says, can i come in now and pack your things? and i said yes. and she packed my things. we left. he totally ignored me. he never spoke to me in the limo, at the airport, when we got back to london, i was going to my home in london, didn't speak to me there. when i got there to the home in london, she asked me, she says, are you hungry? and i said, a little bit, i'm okay. she says, why don't we get something to eat? i said, you know i can't do that. she says, yes, you can, you can do whatever you want. i said, no, i don't. she said, i have the key, you can go. she was allowed to have the key to the home. i wasn't allowed to have keys or anything whatsoever. >> was that the moment you broke free? >> no, it wasn't. actually, we walked down -- we were living next door to the -- we walked to the hilton hotel.

and i can't think of the name of the hotel at the moment that's right across the way from it. the dorchester. we were next door to the dorchester hotel. they were having some kind of event at the hilton. photographers were there, they happened to get pictures of me. i had on my sailor hat and glasses and i put my head down so they couldn't take pictures and my glasses fell to the ground. i said oh no, picked them up, put them on like this, then they got my wrist. and this is when they were -- they just surrounded the house for about three days, i can remember, or more. and i couldn't go out. and he told me, "you did this purposely. you did this so they can see this." i said, "i promise i didn't." he said, "yes, you did, you told them i beat you." i said, "i did not, i never said a word." he said," okay, i'll fix that." i go, "please, i promise." "you want me to go to jail, don't you? you know i'm on probation."

because he was on probation. and at that time the media kept calling and calling. he kept making up stories. he gets on the phone and goes i never touched her, that's plastic surgery. she had surgery. and the reporter said oh, really, they said, surgery? and all of a sudden he said, then what are all the bruises on her wrist? that's not surgery, where is this coming from? that's when he knew he was caught, but piers, he would not allow me to go see a doctor. my head was boiling, i could feel something shaking in my head, i didn't know what was wrong with my head. >> hold it there. i want to continue this after the break, find out how you finally got away from this guy. >> okay, sure. >> that will be the inspiration to all of america, how you finally got away. >> yes, of course. oh, yes. [ male announcer ] introducing the ultimate business phone -- the motorola expert from sprint. its powerful tools help you work faster and smarter so you can get back to playing "angry birds." it lets you access business forms on the go, fire off e-mails with the qwerty keypad,

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back with la toya jackson. we left before the break with you talking about this abuse from jack gordon, your husband. i mean, he was such a control freak, he alienated you from your family, he made you pose for "playboy," which you didn't want to do, and i think to this day you've regretted that. the worst thing for me, i remember this as a journalist when it happened, he made you do that press conference about michael where you basically went along with all the allegations against your own brother.

at a time when michael most needed probably the support of his family. >> absolutely. >> that was a despicable thing for him to do. >> it was the lowest of all, the lowest. and that's one of the things that -- >> do you absolve yourself completely? people reading the book, you had this before, you say you can blame somebody to a point. >> right. >> when you denounce your own brother in public. >> right. >> part of you has to take responsibility yourself for that. >> you have to. part of you has to take responsibility and i do take responsibility for it. i must tell you. but at the same time, i have to tell you that if i didn't do what he asked me to do, he blatantly told me, not just me but others, other loved ones, that he would kill michael. and i believed him because i believed the actions. so when he says you get up there, you read this and you say this, prior to this allegation about michael, there i was on television saying oh, my brother is wonderful, he would never, ever do a thing like this, this is despicable, the whole bit. then gordon gets this idea,

okay, is that what you're saying? no, you're going to change that story. it was like no, no. and then this -- >> how did michael react when you did that? >> i don't know how he reacted at the time. i know how he reacted later, when i talked to him about it. he and i had a conversation, and i told him, i said i need to talk to you, michael. i want to tell you what exactly happened, what went on. he says la toya, you don't have to. i said no, i want to. he said, la toy yeah i know you. you're my sister, i know you, i love you. i know you would never, ever in your heart do a thing like that. piers, when my brother said that, that made me feel so good. >> how did you finally get rid of him? how did you get out of his clutches? >> i got rid of him -- i was in new york. and he had taken my passport and everything, i wasn't allowed to have my passport. i begged for it that night. he wanted me to do a pornography film. he says you're doing it. i said, you've destroyed me. he says, you're nothing now. he goes, you're doing this film

and you're going to do the sex scenes with two guys and he just went on and on whifs going to do. i said, please don't make me do this, i can't do this, i can't do this. he says you're doing it. because he was getting money for it. he was getting quite a few millions for this, for me to do this. and i said, i can't do this, i won't. so i decided that i was going to leave him. this was the straw that broke the camel's back. i said, this is it, i have to leave. he promised me if i left he would kill me and he would kill michael. i called my brother on the phone. i picked up the phone book when he got in the shower -- >> which brother did you call? >> first jackson i saw, my brother randy. and randy told me, you're lucky, i never answer the phone. and he did. and immediately he got my mother and father on the phone, randy, just go get her now, i was in new york, they were in l.a., and they were just so happy to hear from me. and the whole bit. and i was so nervous, piers, the entire time. because we were in a hotel.

he was in the shower. they had the red lights on to know somebody is using a phone line. i kept thinking i can't talk if he looks at the phone and sees the red light on, he is going to kill me. i waited for randy to come, which seemed like forever. finally randy knocked on the door, he and my cousin came and piers, i left with nothing. i just -- i had on my pajamas the whole day -- >> when you got out, how did you feel? >> i felt like there was freedom but i was still nervous. we were still in the hotel and i thought he'd be lurking at the elevator or somewhere and i didn't know how i was going to escape this guy. finally we got in the car, got on the plane, and i felt so good. it was the best feeling in the world. yet there is still that part of me, piers, that told me you're not safe yet. you know this man, you know you're not safe. >> you never did go back to him. >> never went back, piers, never. >> let me conclude it with him. how did you feel when you heard that he died in 2005? >> when i heard he died, i was very, very hurt. i felt sorry for his family.

and everyone that i knew that knew me were very happy and they were rejoicing. and i would say to them, you can't rejoice over someone's downfall. >> let's take a short break. when we come back we'll talk about michael, we'll talk about the day he died, and we'll talk about all the conspiracy theorys and whether you still believe as you sigh say that he may have been murdered. [ male announcer ] this...is the network -- a living, breathing intelligence that's helping people rethink how they live. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. ♪ we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's a network of connections and ideas...

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la toya, let's talk about michael. where were you when you heard he died? >> i was at home when i heard that he had passed. >> here in los angeles? >> here at home in l.a., yes. >> how did you hear? >> my father had kept calling and telling me to get over to his house because i live about two or three minutes away from him and to go over to his house. he heard something was wrong with him, that he was sick or something of that nature. and i said, okay. then he called back and says, i need for you to go now. then he goes, no, go to the hospital instead. he had his assistant, they kept calling me. and it was my mother who initially said to me, my cousin, when i decided to go to the hospital, i was talking on the

phone, i said, please, you've got to tell me which way -- how's he doing? because's he doing? because i didn't know he had passed, and i kept saying how is he doing, please tell me. he would never tell me. i said why can't you tell me. i heard my mother in the background say who is that. and he said it is la toya. she said, give me the phone. she grabbed the phone and screamed as loud as she could, he's dead! as loud as she could. and when she said that, i was driving at the moment, and i almost wrecked the car, ran into people. i just -- everything went limp. everything just -- i couldn't do anything. i got weak and started begging people in the street to drive me to the hospital. just please, can you take me to the hospital. i couldn't do anything. and it was so sad. and i got so nervous, i rushed into the hospital, and they took me upstairs to where my mother was, it was my mother there. and i walked in the room.

and there she was sitting. and all the kids, michael's kids were sitting on her lap just crying. just crying. and it was the worst thing i had ever seen or experienced in my life. i didn't know what to do. it's one of the most helpless feelings in the world that you have no power, no control over. feelings in the world that you have no power, no control over. and you don't know what to say. and i didn't know what to say. and his kids kept crying and crying and crying. and i said, "mother, is it true? is it true?" she says yes, it's true. going up there one of the nurses said you can relax. your brother's still with us. and then i got happy. and then i saw them all crying. yeah. and i didn't know what to do. >> did you see michael? after he passed? >> yes. yes. i went in right away. the kids demanded to see him. we were in the hospital. and they kept saying, please, aunty la toyia, we want to see him one last time. and they asked the nurse, "please we want to see him one last time. can we go see our daddy?

>> and i looked at the nurse. i didn't know if this was appropriate or not. and she said yes, i want them to see them. i said are you sure? she said yes, because this will be closure for them. they were crying the whole time. we all went in to see him. and michael's three kids and myself and the nurse came with tus and we all held hands and we all prayed to him and we all just said all of our special thanks to him and what he's done for the world and for his family and the whole bit and how much we loved him. and brushing his hair, wiping his face. and just -- i just kept kissing him and telling him how much i love him. and we all went around separately saying little things to him. and the minute it was done, the nurse felt that it was enough for everybody to be there, which was quite awhile. the kids walked out. and they never cried again. i never saw them shed a tear after that. >> really? it's like they had shed all the tears then? >> yeah. it was closure. it was closure for them like she said. >> how do you think he died? you've been quoted as saying you

believe it may have been murder. do you still think that? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> why are you so sure? >> i will never ever think differently. first of all, michael told me they were going to murder him. he was afraid for his life. >> who was going to murder him? >> the people that were involved in his life. the people that were controlling him. this book "starting over" is about my life, and it's about michael's life. it's the parallel between the two of our lives. we share that same life where people come into their life, move their way, in control, manipulate, control your funds your finances, everything that you have and you must do what they tell you to do. that's what michael was going through. and he knew that everything that was happening to him was not kosher, it wasn't right. and it disturbed him greatly. they controlled michael. they controlled everything that he did. the people that were around him. this whole show, the whole bit going from 10 to 50 shows that he didn't agree with. he wasn't capable of doing. they knew he wasn't healthy enough to do those shows but yet they said he was fine, they took out insurance on him. yet, when it was time to go to

lloyd's of london for another insurance thing, the day he gets there he's supposed to go there and go directly to the hospital. but michael never makes it there because they knew he wouldn't be healthy enough. yet they put their own doctor in who said michael -- he passed with flying colors. he's in perfect health. michael was not in perfect health. he was very, very fragile. very thin. and the coroners i will tell you -- this was not an o.d. the coroners told me immediately that the only drug that was in michael's body was the drug that was administered to him that night. and that was it. he was totally clean. >> do you think we'll ever find out the truth? >> i'm going to make sure we do. >> we're going to take a final break. when we come back i want to talk to you about how the kids are doing now, how the family has dealt with life after michael. [ female announcer ] you use the healing power of touch every day.

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la toya, how are the kids doing now, michael's children? >> the kids are doing very well. thank you. thanks for asking. they are very happy. they enjoy their life. they enjoy just doing what they've never really had a chance to do. because my brother kept them really, really just confined to the house and home schooling and the whole bit. now they're going to -- well, a private public school, of course, but it's public as long as you're not at home. >> your mother's been bringing them up. >> yes. >> i mean, you know her better than most people. >> yes.

>> what sort of job is she doing do you think? >> she's doing a great job. fabulous job. i see the kids all the time. i'll see them in two days of course, again, family day. we'll see everybody again. i see them all the time. i try to go to my mother's house every sunday and visit the kids and see how they're doing. i speak to them all the time and we text back and forth. and just call each other and see how they're doing. making sure their grades are fine and they are doing good in school and they are. >> if you had the chance to talk to michael again, what would you say to him that you never had a chance to maybe? >> i would tell him that i'm sorry that i wasn't there to help him to start over. i wasn't there to prevent this from happening to him, what took place and what happened, this control. had i think i been there, i think he would still be here today. i know he would. because i wouldn't have allowed it to happen. i'm -- there's so many things that i could say, that i'm sorry that he's no longer with us,

that these people took control of him and took advantage of him because he was a kind, meek person. a very loving person. and people preyed on that. >> i mean, awful that it was that michael died -- i remember just being so shocked. a huge fan of his, i had ticket to the first show in london. was excited by seeing him again. i can never imagine him as an old man somehow. >> i know. >> michael. in a funny way, the kind of immortalizing that went on after he died, awful that it was for the family, i think for his memory when all his records went back to the top of the charts, i had a 10-year-old -- have a 10-year-old son, my youngest got really into michael jackson music after he died. it was on the radio all the time. i liked that, that at least the legacy was protected. because there was a time when you thought the michael jackson legacy might be tarnished forever. >> yeah. as long as i live, as long as you live, your children, your grandchildren, your great great grandchildren, you will never ever ever find an enai