♪ looking for those runway lights looking for those runway lights ♪ good evening, everyone. tonight keeping them honest with some serious questions now being levelled at congresswoman michele bachmann, questions she is so far refusing to answer. a second straight poll now puts michele bachmann how in front of mitt romney in iowa where the front run status, it's not surprising that journalists are focusing more on bachmann as a serious candidate with. that focus come new questions being raised about the clinic bachmann owns with her husband marcus. it's a self-described christian counselling clinic which offers marriage counselling and a host of services, one of which is known as reparative therapy and is based on the theory that gay people can be turned into heterosexuals through a

combination of prayer and willpower. nearly all mainstream medical and psychological associations say there's no evidence that works. and there's plenty of evidence, in fact, that it can be hurtful and harmful. this might not even be a story except mr. bachmann has denied the clinic he and his wife own practice reparative therapy. now congresswoman bachmann is refusing to answer questions about it. what's surprising about that is for years congresswoman bachmann and her husband have spoken extensively publicly about their views on sexual orientation which they clearly believe is not something that people are born with, and which they believe can be treated. here's some of michele bachmann's comments in the past. >> this is an earthquake issue. this will change our state forever. because the immediate consequence if gay marriage goes through is that k-12 little children will be forced to learn that homosexuality is normal and natural and that perhaps they should try it. >> if you're involved in the gay

and lesbian lifestyle, it's bondage. it is personal bondage. personal despair and personal enslavement. this is not funny. it's a very sad life. it's part of satan, i think, to say that this i gay. it's anything but gay. it's profoundly sad to recognize that almost all, if not all, individuals who have gone into the lifestyle have been abused at one time in their life, either by a male or by a female. >> some of the audio recordings of michele bachmann over the years. you can agree or disagree with bachmann's views on homo sexuality. that's not the issue tonight. what's not an issue anymore is that when mr. bachmann denied using reparative therapy at his clinic as you're going to hear him do shortly, it seems he wasn't telling the truth. jim acosta tonight keeping them honest. >> hi, everybody! in her campaign for president, michele bachmann touts her background as a small business owner. >> as a mom of five, a foster parent, and a former tax lawyer and now a small business job creator --

>> reporter: that business is bachmann and associates, a christian counselling service outside minneapolis, run by her husband marcus. they're both pick toured on the clinic's web site. in recent years, the clinic has faced accusations it encourages gay and lesbian patients to change their sexual orientation, a practice that is fround upon by mental health experts. back in 2004, ann drew ramirez at the urging of his mother turn today bachmann and associates to talk about his own homo sexuality. the then 17-year-old says he was immediately skeptical of what one of the counsel ors told him. >> it was therapy that would help me change from being homosexual to straight. >> that's how he described it? >> yes. >> he basically said, if you do this, what? you wouldn't be gay anymore? >> if i did this and worked his therapy program, that could perform a miracle. and i could no longer be gay. >> reporter: ramirez says he was outlined a therapy program consisting of prayer and reading

bible passages. he also says he was told he would be men toward by an ex-lesbian minister. if none of that worked, ramirez says, the counselor had another idea. >> he suggested to you what? >> not acting out on my same-sex attractions and living a life of sell bassy. >> that was an alternative to being gay? >> right. >> reporter: after the second session, ramirez told his mother he wanted to stop. >> and i could just hear his voice givering. i just said, you know, andy, if you're good with being gay, then i am, too. >> reporter: the american psychological association is sharply critical of what's known in the mental health community as reparative therapy, saying in a recent report "there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation". but in a talk radio interview last year, marcus bachmann compared gay teenagers to barbarians who must be disciplined. >> what do you say when your teenager says she's gay?

what do you say to christian parents who come up with this? >> well, i think you clearly say what is the understanding of god's word on homosexuality. and i think that this is no mystery that a child or pre-adolescent, particularly adolescent, will question and wonder certainly. there's that curiosity. but again, we -- it is as if we have to understand barbarians need to be educated. they need to be disciplined, and just because someone feels it or thinks it doesn't mean that we're supposed to go down that road". >> back in 2006, bachmann denied his practice engaged in reparative therapy, telling a minneapolis newspaper "that's a false statement". and went on to say "if someone is interested in talking to us about their homosexuality we are

open to talking about that. but if someone comes in a homosexual and they want to stay a homosexual, i don't have a problem with that". >> what would you suggest to me like a treatment plan type of thing? >> reporter: this week, a gay rights group, truth wins out, released its own hidden camera video recorded by one of its activists who posed as a patient at bachmann and association. >> you can actually leave homosexuality and become heterosexual? >> oh, yeah. definitely. oh, yeah, i believe all about that. and it's happened before, it really has. >> reporter: in the full five sessions of footage captured by truth wins out while the counselor at times suggests homosexuality can be treated at the clinic, he also concedes he's not an expert on the subject. michele bachmann has a long history of controversial views on homosexuality. she recently signed a pledge to defend marriage that compared same-sex couples to polygamists.

in 2004 she called foe an amenment to block same-sex marriages in other states from being recognized in minnesota. >> if we allow this to happen, group marriage, poll rig am i and things much worse may not be far behind. >> reporter: both bachmanns declined our requests for interviews. her campaign released a statement to cnn that says "the bachmanns are in no position ethically, legally or morally to discuss specific courses of treatment concerning the clannic's patients". a local tv station in iowa tried to ask bachmann whether her family clinic engages in reparative therapy, she dodged the question. >> is it something that is conducted at that center? >> well, i'm running for the presidency of the united states. and i'm here today to talk about job creation and also the fact that we do have a business that deals with job creation. we're very proud of the business that we've created. >> so jim, how might these revelations and her refusal to

answer them affect her campaign in places like iowa? it's very possible they would have no effect especially among her conservative base. >> that's right, anderson. the polls show she has a serious shot of winning the iowa caucuses. that is because social conservatives will be a decisive factor in that con 70. and it's quite possible that the conservative base there will view this clinic not as a liability but as an asset. the marriage pledge that she signed from one conservative group out there basically believes what she believes and what this clinic believes. >> yeah. jim, appreciate the reporting. you saw a moment ago where the american psychological association thinks of this reparative therapy. we wanted to learn more about it. earlier i spoke to dr. drew pinsky, host of hln's "doctor drew". >> what does reparative therapy mean? what does it consist of? >> many times they're using models for other kinds of behaviors that people have difficulty controlling like addiction. they're using things like 12-step models and those sorts

of interventions. there's a lot of trauma therapist involved. and these treatments are quite legitimate. what's problematic is this idea that being homosexual or gay is somehow pathological and needs to be fixed. >> you say these treatments are legitimate but there's not any evidence that this kind of therapy works, right? >> that's right. the treatments are legitimate. i mean, for instance, when i've talked to the guys that have either been through these treatments or used them, they're talking about trauma treatments. they're talking about thaw ma therapies. and i understand that. that's a legitimate thing to do if somebody's had trauma. but with the goal of changing somebody's sexual orientation now you've got completely off the rail. the medical establishment is going to great lengths to sort of atone for having path ol jazzed this for many years. it was not correct. it is not a pathology. and there's no one in established medicine that believes that it is. >> so the american psychiatric association, the ama, none of them back this idea of

reparative therapy that you can pray enough and suddenly not be gay or go through other forms of reparative therapy and no longer be gay? >> that's absolutely true. and not only that, though, again the people that i've talked to that went through, this we dedicated an entire program to this one evening. and even the guys that went through it are clear, it's not like their sexual orientation has changed. they just can contain their behaviors a little differently. >> it was interesting one of the counselors, i don't know if the person is an actual therapist or what their qualifications is, but i'll say a counselor in the video was telling this person with the hidden camera, it's definitely worked. you can definitely change it. but in truth, as you said, you've interviewed a lot of people who have gone through this kind of treatment. i've interviewed people over the years who have gone through this treatment. and even the ones who claim that they are no longer gay, when you really push them they will admit that every day they still have the fantasies, they still have

the thoughts, they just are forcing themselves not to act on what appears to be their natural inclination. >> that is precisely what i found. that is exactly what i found with those people. they will also then say that well okay but are you saying that people shouldn't have a choice to do something if they want to change? that's sort of what they'll hide behind then. and the fact is again it's what you're describing, it's living a life that is not consistent with their biology and who they are. and it's pa thol jazzing something that's not a pathology. i'm not saying that there shouldn't be choices for people. i'm saying that having those choices might have a very significantly negative impact on people and we need to take a look at that. >> because repressing yourself in that way, because living that kind of -- repressing your inner most thoughts you're saying is not healthy long term. >> i'm saying of course that would be a very difficult way to live. but i'm actually more concerned about the ambient culture coming

down on people who otherwise would be able to live health yes, happy lives. those are the people that really get hurt in the fallout from something like this. it's somebody who is coming to terms with this who may be ambivalent who begins thinking because they see billboards on the roadside that there's something wrong with them. aren't you -- >> it's also based on this notion that this is somehow a choice, which there's no evidence of. >> well, you know, you're absolutely correct. the idea of a choice, it's a bizarre notion. i mean, it's like think about it for anybody that has feelings about this out there, it's like a choice to like chocolate ice cream or a choice to like certain kinds of -- be attracted in a certain way to certain kinds of people. that's something in us. it's a very deep biological piece of who we are as human beings. >> dr. drew pinsky, thanks. >> anderson, thank you. quick keeping them honest

followup, last night we told you about a marriage pledge signed by michelle bachmann and rick santorum that had some false statements about slavery, the slavery section was taken out. tonight we've learneded that mitt romney has said he will not sign this pledge. he told the "washington post" "mitt romney strongly supports traditional marriage but he felt this pledge contained references and divisions that were undignified and unappropriate for a presidential campaign". let us know what you think on facebook on twitter @ anderson cooper up next tonight, the budget talks and president obama's dire warning about the social security checks that millions of americans rely on. if the government defaults, don't count on the checks he's saying. is he just trying to scare seniors and others? and later syria when tensions is rising after mobs attack the the u.s. embassy. pro-government mobs. the latest what washington is doing about it. also we'll hear from casey anthony jurors about the reaction she's getting from voting not guilty. >> you come home and everyone's

mad at you. and the media's outside pounding you and making it clear they're not leaving. and it's just very stressful. and you get anonymous letters from people that are hateful and nasty. >> all that's coming up. first let's check in with isha sesay maybe you've seen the reality show "sister wives". tonight we'll tell you why the four wife and their husband are taking the state of utah to court. that and more when 360 continues. ing that. i do believe it's part of a locust. make sure your alignments good. your brakes are good. you've got all sorts different things that you check off. your fluid levels. pretty much everything you could need. it gets done. it gets done quickly. and it gets done correctly. the works fuel saver package, just $29.95 or less after rebate. only at your ford dealer. you're a doctor. you're a car doctor. maybe a car doctor.

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now i'm here for her. [ female announcer ] ask the doctor about your loved one trying the exelon patch. visit exelonpatch.com to learn more. raw politics now late development in the trillion dollar battle over the budget. one major bombshell today,president obama saying he cannot guarantee americans will get their social security checks on august 3rd unless an agreement is reached by august 2nd. in political terms in his showdown with house and senate republicans that's called like bringing an h bomb to a gun fight or a little league game, could also be called scare mongering. we'll talk about it shortly and the budget negotiate eggses that seem to be getting nowhere. the president obama's stunning answer when asked about social security. >> reporter: can you tell the folks at home that no matter what happens the social security checks are going to go out on august 3rd? there are about $20 billion worth of social security checks that have to go out the day after the government is supposedly going into default.

>> these are not just social security checks. these are veterans checks, folks on disability and their checks. they're about 70 million checks that go out each month. >> can you guarantee as president those checks will go out on august 3rd? >> i cannot guarantee those checks will go out on august 3rd if we haven't resolved this issue. because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it. >> in fact there are different estimates when precisely the treasury would run out of cash and authority to sell more bonds to finance the government. but whichever day it is according to the bipartisan policy center, the government will instantly be unable to finance the difference between the $200 billion in revenue for august and $360 billion in spending. sending out those social security checks plus medicare, defense contractors, interest on the debt, about 172 billion of the $200 billion. after paying all of that, the bipartisan center estimates the treasury would not be able to pay the troops, finance the v.a., send out college loans, fund highway construction or pay

tax refunds. the choices get tougher as time goes on. president obama says he will not accept a short term deal. senate minority leader mitch mcconnel today offered a complex list of short time deals. conservative republicans slam the offer and mcconnel for making it. house speaker boehner also under pressure from his right laid the debt problem squarely at president obama's doorstep. >> this debt limit increase is his problem. and i think it's time for him to lead by putting his plan on the table, something that congress can pass. >> speaker boehner says he cannot settle a plan -- sell a tax increase to his members. president obama said he thinks he can sell democrats to entitlement cuts but some are accusing him and others of scaring seniors on social security. joining us two political analysts. david, what do you make of the president's statements today? was that scare mongering or does he have a valid point?

>> it's both. of course he's trying to scare people. but it's also true that you could put social security first in line and pay it. but clearly, anderson, when the government as we are is borrowing 40 cents on the dollar, you've only got 60 cents left out of each dollar to figure out what you're going to pay for. that other 40 cents is not going to get paid. theoretically, yes, social security checks may not go out. would the government actually do that? i think the social security would go out first along with veterans checks. >> gloria, you're referring to this as a defining moment or definitional moment for the republican party. how so? >> well, i think at a certain point parties have to decide how they're going to govern and what they're about. and i think it's always in my memory been that republican party is the party of smaller government and fiscal responsibility. but now we see a new strain in the republican party in which this sort of obsession, no taxes, no new taxes, seems to

trump everything else. you had a deal, a potential deal between the president of the united states and the house speaker in which the president was offering $3 of spending cuts for every dollar of tax increases. i believe even ronald reagan probably would have taken that deal. but there are all these republicans, 230 of them in the house, who have take an no tax pledge. and they couldn't even sign onto that. so i think they've made a choice. and the choice is, taxes are more important than deficit reduction. >> it's interesting, david. democrats are drawing the line -- some democrats are drawing the line on some entitlement programs like social security, medicare. isn't that as much of a hurdle for the president as republican hard line on taxes? >> i don't think it is. the president has -- believes very strongly, and i have this on excellent authority today -- he believes very strongly he can bring along hare reid and nancy pelosi, kicking and screaming to be sure to sign onto some

entitlement reforms. and while he's having an recalcitrant republican party. i happen to favor the simpson bowles plan, $2 of spending cuts for $1 of tax increase. i think that's the right way to go. but i think it's unfair to republicans to say they're simply -- they're so ideological they feel that in the last few years government has become bloated. it's grown from about 19% of the gdp to almost 25% of gdp. and they feel that the democrats have an ideological commitment to big government. what they would like to see is the government sweated down. that's the point they've been trying to make. there are honest differences and people have a very different view of what kind of society we ought to live in. >> but at a certain point, david, when there was a big deal on the table and if as you say the president could have brought nancy pelosi along -- i agree with you i think he could have

-- the republicans would have gotten a great deficit reduction deal if they hadn't committed to the no tax pledge, right? >> but gloria, asking any party to commit to $1 trillion of tax increases is an awful big deal for a party that all along stood for lower taxes. and when they also feel a lot of these cuts are going to turn out to be illusory. their experience in the past they sign onto the bargains and they feel the democrats eventually end up getting what they wanted and what they wanted never materializes. >> there's a big difference between that and nothing. >> i agree. [ overlapping speakers ] >> so david, where do you see the middle ground? where does a compromise occur? >> well, i have felt for some time, anderson, they're not going to get that deal. that's clearly off the table. i don't think they're going to get a moderate-sized deal either. if they get a moderate-sized deal that would carry us through until february of 200013. we wouldn't have to revisit this issue of the debt ceiling. but they're so far short of that

in these negotiate eggses that i think that's likely to fall through, too. i think they're likely to fall back on some sort of short-term, interim solution that president clearly does not want. and there is fear in the white house that if we do a short-term solution it would get us past the default problem but the credit rating agencies like standard & poors could downgrade the credit of the united states. >> and then you have the problem that this continues to come up over and over and over again. and of course it's not going to get any easier to continue this debate the closer you get to an election. and the white house would like to have it done. >> gloria borger, david gergen, thanks. crime and punishment, what the lead detectives in the casey anthony investigation said today about the young mother's acquittal. and gary tuchman talked to one of the jurors about the deep divide on one of the charges that could have put anthony in prison for years zm we're told the original vote for the aggravated manslaughter was 6-6. >> correct. >> which side of the six were you on?

>> the manslaughter. >> also ahead, attacks on the american and french embassies in syria add new fuel to the tensions between syria and the u.s. and the west. tonight strong words from president obama, secretary clinton and the u.n. surt council. where is the crisis heading somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions. and the over sixty thousand people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers.

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tension between syria and much of the west escalated today as the united nations security

council condemned attacks on the u.s. and french embassies in damascus. you can see two men scaling the american embassy's walls yesterday. u.s. officials said it was the third attack in four days with hundreds of dem on straighters descending on the building. mobs loyal to the president have been demonstrating against hama. i want to point out this is amateur video and cnn cannot confirm its authenticity. the video shows police parked near the u.s. embassy. the writing on the white pickup says "anti-riot battalion". you can also see graffiti painted on the embassy's walls including the message that people want to kick out the dog. apparent reference to the u.s. aem bass dor. someone has written "this is syria, you dog "and "the hell with america". today the syrian ambassador to the united states accused the ambassador in france exaggerating the facts about the embassy attacks. the ambassador called on all to protect themselves and their property. secretary of state hillary

clinton blasted syria in her strongest words yet. >> we've seen sent a clear message that nobody can be messing with our embassy and that we will take whatever action is necessary in or to protect our embassy. >> i talked to foreign affairs correspondent joel doherty earlier. >> reporter: in yesterday's attacks we heard the strongest language yet from this administration regarding the assad regime. >> reporter: yes. hillary clinton crossed a line you could say at least using that word that he has lost his legitimacy. that's the phrase that they have used about gadhafi in libya. and the first time secretary of state hillary clinton used that phrase she said that president assad is not indispensable. that's a change. that's really upping it. they're not saying he should step down. they haven't gotten that far. and anderson, one thing that they probably won't do is say precisely that until the people of libya -- of syria decide that that indeed is what they want to do.

>> the syrian government responded to the u.s. statements with strong rhetoric of their own. >> reporter: they did. they're talking about incitement. they were very angry about the comments bisect clinton firing back. they also says that incident at the embassy, on monday, was really incitement by the united states and that the visit by the ambassador ford to hama was incitement as well. so they're kicking it right back to the americans. >> is it clear, though, what role the syrian government played in yesterday's attack? this is an incredibly repressive regime. it's hard to believe that a u.s. embassy can be attacked without some sort of encouragement or as it approval of the government there. >> reporter: absolutely. publicly what they're saying is whether they condone -- >> the tactic we're seen with my bother exof getting people out to attack reporterses in that case. but now it's just reporters

aren't there so they're attacking the u.s. embassy. >> reporter: but behind the scenes, officials are telling us they do say that it appears that the government actually did somehow orchestrate this. and they point out that there were broadcasts on a television station that is under the influence of president assad did anger people and incite them to do something. >> yeah. it's a familiar move we've seen among dictators in the recent past. the u.n. security council condemned the attacks yesterday. russia and china actually signing onto the rebuke. that seems pretty significant. >> reporter: significant, yeah. i think in that sense it's significant. but i think you have to look at the fine print. are they actually endorsing what the united states is saying about president assad? perhaps not. what they appear to be endorsing is this narrow principle that practically any country would approve which is there is a vienna convention that says that

host country has to protect diplomats and their property. and so if they're endorsing that, then it's kind of a no-brainer. it doesn't necessarily mean that they support let's say u.s. policy. >> interesting. jill dougherty, thanks. let's check in with isha sesay following some 360 news bulletin. isha? >> reporter: former first lady betty ford is remembered today for her courage and grace. former president george w. bush and former first ladies rosalind carter, hillary clinton and na nancy reagan attended the service in southern california. ford will be buried in grand rapids michigan after a private service. she died last week at 93 vet ren producer schwartz died this morning. schwartz was 94 uts's anti-bigamy laws are about to be challenged in court by the stars of the reality show "sister wives."

cody brown and his four wives plan to file a lawsuit tomorrow. they say they're fighting for the rights of their families. listen up, a pennsylvania restaurant is serving up a new rule. no kids allowed. that's right. starting next weekend, children under the age of six will no longer be welcomed at mcdane's restaurant in monroeville. the owner says babies and small takes are too noisy and you can't control their volume. he says he's confident most customers will be thrilled with the changing policy. >> desperate for a night out. >> he's like keep them at home. they maybe the center of your universe but they're not the center of the world. >> all right. you can address your hate mail to isha. time now for the 360 extend tended family, bea and scout live with producer kirk mcdonald. they have a morning ritual. take a look. >> like most cats she likes to wash not just herself.

not sure if scout is enjoying all of this. he seems resigned. she has kind of a vice-like grip of little scout right there. that's adorable. >> i think it's very adorable. very cute. >> isn't it great that cats and dogs can get along? >> can coexist. i'll see your cat and dog duet and raise you a solo act. it's an oldie but goody. the amazing singing dog. we found it on youtube. [ dog howling ] >> i know. he's going for it. kind of like the scene at mcdane's, i imagine, if there were kids allowed. >> i haven't seen that but that's cool. serious stuff up next, casey anthony investigators weigh in on the verdict. so does a juror talking with gary tuchman. >> do you believe she could have

been molested by her father? >> there was no evidence. none at all. >> also tonight, why there could be a catch to the catch by the fan who caught derek jeter's 3,000th career hit. he did the unselfish thing, he gave jeter the ball. didn't try to auction it off for big bucks. that maybe why he may be wishing he kept it instead coming up. [ male announcer ] things seem better with travelocity's best price guarantee.

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crime and punishment tonight, the investigators who built the murder case against casey anthony speak out for the first time since she was acquitted of the charge last week. at a news conference today in orlando, investigators maintained they had a solid case against casey, and while they're unhappy with the jury's decision they called on the public to respect it.

a key point in the discussion today, the defense claimed that caylee died in an accidental drowning in the family swimming pool. now, a lead investigator said when they questioned casey about her daughter's death, she never said anything about that. >> she never said it was an accident. that would have been her opportunity to say so had it been. obviously we give them -- we give them the ability to explain their actions, but they always can come up and say, this is what happened. even to this day i'm still surprised that she just didn't come up and tell us the truth. that's all we were after the truth. that day in whole thing could have ended had we known truth. >> as for casey's safety when she's released from jail on sunday, investigators say there haven't been any credible death threats against her and they won't offer her any special protection when she gets out of jail. cindy anthony will not be charged with perjury after she claimed responsibility for the many searches for chloroform on the family computer. prosecutors proved she was at work during the time the search

was made. prosecutors claim she used chloroform to kill caylee. today gary tuchman spoke with one of the jurors who says her life is dramatically changed. >> reporter: jennifer ford was sequestered with her fellow jurorses for a month and a half. ever since she's been home at pinellas county her life has gotten difficult and hair woeing. she's 32 years old, a nursing student, a nice woman doing her civic duty. she is strongly suspicious of casey anthony's behavior and she thinks the defense lawyers lied during opening statements. they did not believe there was certainty beyond a reasonable doubt that casey anthony is guilty. ever since that verdict she has received hate mail and death threats. she can't believe what's happened since she was summoned to jury duty. >> when you look back on it do you wish you had not been a part of this jury? >> i would have been okay to not

be a part of that. >> why do you say that? >> just because for six weeks we had minimal freedoms, and then the welcoming committee -- i'm being sarcastic, but you come home and everyone's mad at you, and the media's outside hounding you and making it clear they're not leaving. and it's just very stressful. and you get anonymous letters from people that are hateful and nasty. >> what have people said in these letters? >> honestly, i read probably the first sentence and if it starts with shame on you in all kaup stall letters i usually just rip it up and throw it away. i've seen like things on facebook. i don't want to read it. >> are you scared, jennifer? >> not really.

i'm kind of a scrappy girl. i'm not going to run away and cry. >> have there been times you have felt a little bit like crying? >> i've been stressed out. yeah, i mean, i have cried. but -- >> how does it make you feel? you were doing your civic duty. how does it make you feel that you would get anonymous, hate-filled letters from people threatening your welfare? >> it makes me feel like, i don't know, i feel like people are missing something. i don't know. to me i think that it would be a good thing to know that people are trying to do what they're supposed to do and uphold the letter of the law and not be emotional. but apparently that's not something that is rewarded by the public sometimes? i mean, a lot of people have been supportive. even if they didn't agree with our verdict they're like still respectful. i think it might be a small population who's loud and angry and unkind.

and i guess it comes with the territory. >> it's very upsetting. >> it's very upsetting. >> you told me that original vote for the aggravated manslaughter was 6-6. >> correct. >> which side of the six were you on? >> the manslaughter. >> so originally you thought that she was guilty of manslaughter or could be guilty of manslaughter? >> could be. and i wanted to investigate it further to see if it fit based on the evidence that we were given. >> so what convinced you and the five others to switch your votes and vote for not guilty? >> i think everyone will tell you the same thing. it's just lack of hard evidence. it's just like i said, the duct tape and the chloroform and things like that, you could -- if you took a good hard look at it, you could kind of -- there was a lot of doubt surrounding all of those certain things. so there wasn't enough to make anything stick. >> so you don't necessarily think she's innocent but you didn't feel you had enough proof to find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. >> i don't know either way. obviously it's not been proven that she's innocent but it certainly hasn't been proven that she's guilty. >> the defense in their opening

statements said that casey anthony's father molested her repeatedly when she was youngers and that's the reason why she kept the drowning of her child secret. do you believe she could have been molested? was there evidence she could have been molested by her father? >> there was no evidence. none at all. and that had no bearing on any verdict that was made. that was irrelevant. it was thrown out there but never substantiated. >> it wasn't substantiated later in the trial but the judge said you cannot bring this up in your closing arguments, defense, because you didn't have any evidence about it. >> it's a disturbing picture to have in your mouth. if you're going to do that a host back it up. if you can't back it up don't put that picture in people's minds. nobody wants to see that. >> and regarding the drowning, the only evidence that was presented were pictures of caylee climbing in the pool with her grandmother, standing near a door which her grandmother testified she couldn't open. it's pretty flimsy evidence at best.

i'm wondering if you think there was a possibility that she could have drowned. was there any evidence that convinced you of that? >> there's no evidence that convinced me of that, no. >> you don't think she drowned, you don't think she was molested. so a casual viewer of this trial might say how come you didn't find she was guilty of murder? >> it has nothing to do with what the defense presents. it's on the prosecution to prove -- they brought charges. they have to prove with their evidence that those charges are -- they can validate bringing those charges and the crime was committed. >> so you didn't believe the central points of what the defense told you but you just felt the prosecution didn't have enough evidence to convict. >> like i said, they had good strong circumstantial evidence but at the end of the day it was circumstantial. there is was not just one strong piece of evidence that said something definitively. every piece of evidence could have said this way or that way. there were many different ways you could have gone with each piece of evidence. >> gary, is she worried this interview is going to cause more unpleasant letters and attention to come her way? >> reporter: she's very concerned about that, anderson. i didn't think she would tack to

me. but i explained to her we certainly wanted to find out what happened in the jury room. but we also wanted to paint the human portrait of what she and these other jurors are going through. what i told her was, our viewers are watching. this and they feel both ways about the verdict. i would guess most people feel it was not a good verdict. but i also feel that most of our viewers do not want to attack the jurors for reaching this verdict. if we do, who's going to want to serve on a jury in the future. >> clearly this was a difficult decision and the more you hear from them you realize what they went through and how difficult a decision it was even if people aren't happy with the decision. >> she is in pain, anderson. she's that lot of pain. >> appreciate the reporting. still ahead, it almost happened again. a baseball fan trying to catch a ball nearly took another 20-foot fall from the stands. we'll show you the amazing save. the people around him grabbing his legs. we'll show you the foe toecht also ahead, a ridiculist first. i'm adding myself to the ridiculist. i know. i am almost too ashamed to tell you.

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unlike fish oil, megared softgels are small and easy to swallow with no fishy smell or aftertaste. try megared today. coming up, see why i put myself on the ridiculist and why it has something to do with snooki. first isha sesay with a 360 bulletin. >> reporter: rodney king is back in trouble. police in southern california have pulled him over and busted him today on suspicion of driving under the influence. you may recall it was during a traffic stop in 1991 that king received a brutal beating that sparked the l.a. riots a year later rupert murdoch, his son james and former news of the world editor rebekah brooks for

questioning a week from today. they're investigating allegations some of the newspaper's staff hacked into the voice males of politicians, celebrities and victims president obama awarded the medal of honor today to an army ranger who lost his right hand while tossing an enemy grenade away from fellow soldiers in afghanistan. sergeant first class leroy arthur petry is the second recipient of the award for actions in iraq and afghanistan. a baseball fan is lucky to be alive after he almost fell 20 feet head first while trying to catch a ball during the all-star home run derby. keith car michael's brother, friends and some fans grabbed his legs and likely saved his life. last night's incident comes just days after a texas ranger's fan plunged to his death while trying to grab a ball. and the new york fan who caught derek jeter's 3,000th career hit and gave it back instead of trying to cash in could still be slapped with a

big tax bill. as much as $14,000 according to some reports. that's because yankee boss gave christian lopez free luxury suite tickets to every remaining game and a lot of yankee autograph swag. if that's taxable income then he'll have to pay up. if it's considered a gift, then he'll be safe from the irs. >> why wouldn't be a gift? >> i don't know. they have to figure this out. what i will say as a non-baseball fan, if you see the ball coming, duck. just duck. >> yeah. it's amazing that happened again, somebody reaching over. thank goodness people were able to grab his legs. >> i know. time for the ridiculist, isha. and i think we're making ridiculist history here. it's time for a look in the mirror as i put myself on the ridiculist. no. not for my -- oh, really odd photo. not for my behavior today -- thank you for showing it again. not for my behavior today in the cnn cafeteria. that is between me and wolf blitzer. all i will say is i did not cut in line no matter what fransy grace tells you. i'm talking about me being wrong about literary talents of

snooki. good old pint-sized, totally tan opposed to wearing underwear while doing cartwheels snooki of jersey shore fame. we're told she signed a second book deal with her publisher simon and schuster. that is one more book deal than i've had. her new book is a followup to her debut novel "a sure thing". she spelled it shore but it's really about sex. in fact, it's a book -- "shore thing" is a book about friends, who set out to have and i quote "the sexiest summer ever". the new book is titled "gorilla beach". it doesn't refer to jane good all's summer home. i've made fun of snooki's writing bchlt but now that she has another book coming i think it's time to reassess. i've been busy. this is cnn. it's not like we've had time to go and cover snooki's book signings or anything. >> that's not my camera. >> this is cnn. >> hi, cnn.

thanks for coming. >> okay. we covered her book signing. my bad. it's hard to tell which is my favorite chapter in her first book "a shore thing "there's "karma is a witch, witch". make my beg or "vin diesel is hotter than jesus". so what led snooki from the jacuzzi of shame to -- talent, raw, tanned talent. i give you page nine of "a shore thing". tonight she aimed her jai rating hips straight at salam me boy. the guy could take a hint. two seconds he creeped over to her. five seconds they were grinding, her butt pressed against his thighs. you got a nice rack, screamed rocky. so who said tuesday nights on basic cable couldn't be sexy, right? if gorilla beach is half as good as, this i have two words for you. best seller. that's one word. best seller. i read on. "tonight she'd pull out all the

stops. she started with makeup, including her trick of using a dark stroke of blush on her cleavage to make her -- i read on. "she danced around a little, shaking her peaches for show. " oh, snook yichlt she shook it hard. too hard. in middle of a shimmy her stomach cramped, a far the slipped out, a loud one and stinky. just to clarify, your not watching masterpiece theater. as for you dear dear misunderstood snook yes, congratulations on your new book deal. i was wrong about you. you are a modern day jane austen or at least her sketchy second cousin. right on, little snooki. right on. i'll be waiting to buy "gorilla beach". perhaps even first in line on ridiculist. we'll be right back. active nats target and help repair damage in just 3 washes. for softer, stronger... ... hair with life. [ female announcer ] nourish plus. only from aveeno.

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