that's the plan. >> well, look, it's been a fascinating interview. thank you for sharing your feelings with us. and i'm now going to release you back i think to where you'd most like to be right now, which is the comforting bosoms of your two new friends. there we are, ladies, he's on his way. mend that broken heart, hugh hefner, thank you very much. >> thank you again very, very much. enjoy it. >> my pleasure. that's all for us tonight. now here's "anderson cooper 360" good evening, everyone. we begin tonight with breaking news. late new details from inside today's debt crisis meeting. headline one, no agreement today. headline two, no meeting tomorrow after five straight days it's the end of the line for now. and headline three, the warning bells keep getting louder from the heart of capitalism to the capital of communism. standard & poors today signalling it may downgrade u.s. debt even if a default is averted. and the people's republic of china, red china, urging washington to raise the debt ceiling. somewhere chairman mao is smiling. president obama went on record with his account of how last

night's turbulent meeting ended. you'll recall house majority leader cantor said the president told him not to call his bluff, said "i'll see you tomorrow" and walked out of the cabinet room. >> look, at the end of the meeting after we'd already met for a couple of hours, what i said to the group was what i think the american people feel, which is we have a responsibility to do the right thing. we shouldn't be overly partisan. we shouldn't be posturing. we should solve problems. >> whichever account rings true to you, today's meeting was the first to deal with largely revenue. we got insight in a moment from gel ca yellin and gloria borger. there's new polling you should know about that mayed is prize you, showing what americans really think about raising taxes to close the budget gap. here's what republicans have been saying for a long time that americans think. >> right now this economy is

ailing. and we don't believe, nor do i think the american people believe, that raising taxes is the answer. >> american people understand that tax hikes destroy jobs. >> i think what the american people appreciate is that you don't reinvigor ate the economy by raising taxes. >> 80% of the american people do not want to see taxes raised. >> the president's answer? let's raise taxes on job creators. mr. president, the american people don't want that. >> the american people don't want us to raise taxes. >> now, you can agree or disagree with the premise that taxes ought to be lower and government smaller. that's not what we're talking about. keeping them honest when republicans say they are pushing for a budget deal containing no tax increases because that's what most americans want, according to every poll we have found that is simply not true. new poling out today asked voters if they support a budget deal with budget cuts only or a mix of cuts and taxes on corporation and the wealthy. just 25% said cuts only.

67% favored a mix. if you break it down further, 48% of republicans, not even a majority, favor the cuts only approach. and in a recent gallup poll, look at the first line, only 26% of republicans favored lowering the debt with budget cuts alone. just 20% of all voters did. in fact, all of the recent polling we've seen shows americans want a mix of spending cuts and tax increases. that goes for polling from gallup, kwun pie ack, abc news, "washington post," bloomberg, reuters and uscla times. we're now negotiating today and why it won't happen tomorrow. we'll talk to jaimt james carville and carley fiorina. jessica yellin has details as does gloria borger. >> the president says he still wants the biggest deal possible. still no deal. where do things stand right now? >> after five days of negotiations and almost eight hours of discussions, practically speaking they are no further along than they were when this thing started last

sunday. as you say, the president has said he wants this big deal, but this thing broke up today. the meeting ended with the president telling these leader toss go back to their members and ask them what do they think can pass and then report back to the president with something that they believe can pass by this saturday morning. they're not even having a meeting tomorrow. now, despite all that, i am told by my sources that there's not a lot of optimism that this particular negotiating process here at the white house is going to actually end up lead together real deal, and a lot of effort and attention is now turning to a different process that's happening in the u.s. senate and another all the ate deal that's being worked out between the two senate leaders that could instead end up raising the debt ceiling. a lot of hope is centered there, anderson. >> basically what is that deal, that negotiation based on? harry reid and mitch mcconnell? >> reid-mcconnell deal. it would effectively raise the debt ceiling in a negative vote

which would allow for spending cuts that can be spelled out by the president but don't necessarily have to pass. there would also be a deficit commission that would allow for other spending cuts and also potential revenue elements and entitlement reforms. and it would allow people to vote against raising the debt ceiling instead of in favor of raising the get ceiling so that members could then go to their voters and say, i voted no instead of i voted yes. >> so gloria, why is there this separate track now? i mean, what's been point of these white house meetings? >> well, you know, it's interesting. because i spoke with one republican leadership aide to echo what jess said. he set look at maybe what the white house talks are becoming increasingly irrelevant here. because if you're a member of congress and you get to have it both ways and you get to vote no on raising the debt ceiling but then the debt ceiling passes, why not do that? if they can come up with that kind of a deal? the only problem with that is, and the big question is, i

think, do you attach a significant amount of spending cuts to it? like $1.5 trillion either now or sometime in the future? or do you promise to set up a commission that gets a vote on a date certain in congress to do spending reductions and perhaps even tax reform. but it seems like that track as jess said is moving an along a lot faster. >> jessica, a lot of people seem to have written off the mcconnell idea a couple days ago but now it seems like even some house republicans are maybe going to get behind it. >> well, yes, because there's so much uncertainty about the process that's happening here. but i don't want to get ahead of it because the house republicans are still very wary it's not at all clear if it could get the vote there. the one thing i would say, anderson, is that everybody you talk to in town, democrat, republican, says, i have no idea how this is going to get worked out. i have no idea. but what they do say is, it's going to happen in the end because as this approaches,

people are going to be so terrified of voting no that these members who are saying no now are going to start to realize this is what they're convinced of, start to realize that stakes are just too high and that this will come together in a sort of of midnight hour vote. >> jessica yellin, gloria we'll see. appreciate it. i want to talk more about the political dividing lines as well as areas of potential agreement and fall back plans. carley fiorina the vice-chairperson of the snore yal republican campaign contributor and democratic strategist james carville. james we're told the president wants to see an agreement within 36 hours. how do you see all this? >> this is a great civics lesson because we have the president and the congressional leadership and they go to the white house and they sit around a table and everybody there. in reality what's going on is senator reid and senator mcconnell are kind of meeting in some closet off somewhere deep in the bowels of the capitol, scratching something on the back

of the napkin kind of deal that's going to happen. one of these fascinating things of the way washington works. and this thing will probably happen and as jessica was saying it's going to happen late because the terror of what would happen if it doesn't, you go back and you remember tarp, remember they voted that down and then they had to go back up the stock market fell 770 points and everybody is trying to gain the system where they can vote no and it passes. but you need like 218 house members to vote yes. somebody's got to by the the bullet before it's over. >> michele bachmann and some other republican members of congress are saying things will be tough but fine if there's no deal by the deadline, that the dire warnings by the president and others are just scare tactics. as a former businesswoman what do you think? >> well, i disagree with that. i think we must raise the debt kr50e8ing. and i think what's disappointing to so many americans is that a deal that could have been passed, that would have been passed has been on the table for at least six months.

and that deal started with oklahoma's deficit commission reporting out the deal involves lowering the corporate tax rate and closing the corporate tax loop holes. it involves reforming entitlements in a simple way, in a simple way, to index medicare and to change the inflation indexes on social security. and it involves some spending cuts. that deal has been on the table for a long time. and unfortunately i think james said it well. everybody's been gaming the system, including the president, i would add. and that deal hasn't been done. >> james, why hasn't that deal been done? >> first of all, one of the interesting things that we're reporting, gloria and jessica on top of this, is going to have this commission that's going to come in and have an up and down vote. if you'll remember, that was something that was proposed by the previous -- during the previous administration by senate republicans. president obama passed it up and said let's have a commission and have an up and down vote. seven republican senators charnged their mind. now we're going to go back to that.

we could have had that in february of 2009 if they would have gone along with it. the president did propose that. that's exactly what senator reid and senator mcconnell are talking about doing right now. well, sometimes it takes awhile to get there but maybe this is going to be a good idea. i don't know. >> well, unfortunately, though, the truth is that president obama hasn't proposed anything very specific except a budget in february of this year which was voted against 97-0. >> carley, he proposed to have a deficit commission that was going to fast track it like the base closing commission. you could vote it up or down. seven republicans previously for it changed their mind because he proposed it. that would have gotten you a clean vote on a lot of things. >> well, the president is the leader of the free world and he owes the congress a budget and he put one out there that didn't have a single one of the budget deficit commission's recommendations. so he hasn't made -- he hasn't put forward a specific plan. but anderson, your original question, we've got to come up with an answer here. >> doesn't everybody know, though, some kind of a

compromise has to be made? that both side kind of ultimately to get something done, to get cuts, to deal with deficit, something compromise has to be made. i mean, is that not true? >> there's a large part of the sort of right wing media if you listen to talk radio, you read the "wall street journal," that says to heck with it. just do it. it's not going to be that big of a deal. you listen to michele bachmann, a ton of these house republicans, just shut the thing down. that's the only way you get to do this thing. it's sinful to vote for this. by the way, a majority of the country, a majority of country says that they're not in favor of increasing the debt limit. that's just a fact. >> and you also have people like nancy pelosi saying that entitlement reform is absolutely off the table even after the president of her own party put it on the table. so there are people in both parties who are playing games with this. i just think it's a shame that a deal that would have both raised revenue, not tax rates, and

reformed entitlements and cut spending has been on the table in washington, d.c. for six months and it hasn't gotten done. >> well, i don't know of a single democrat that said that that is no big deal if they don't raise the debt ceiling. >> nancy pelosi and others said you can't touch entitlements. >> i don't know a single democrat that said it's not a big deal if you don't extend the debt limit. >> there are lots of democrats who said entitlement reform is off the table which is in essence the same thing. >> we'll leave it there. james carville, carley fiorina thanks very much. follow us on twitter @ anderson cooper up next, a man who claims to be an expert on terrorism. a fascinating story. part one last night. here's part two of this. he says he used to be a terrorist himself. cnn has found no evidence to back up his claims. tonight if tough questions for him about how he runs his business, a business not only tax-exempt but taxpayer supported. getting taxpayer dollars

also tonight, video of an 8-year-old boy here in new york city just moments before being abducted and later murdered, dismembered by his killer. there was an arrest and now police say there's a confession. you're going to hear part of that confession tonight. it is chilling. details provide a horrifying window into an apparently very, very sick mind. we'll talk about that and the legal implications with sunny hostin and dr. drew pinsky. first isha sesay. protesters took to the streets in syria today. and reports are that casualties were heavy. we'll bring you the latest and tell you how the assadry geom is trying to explain it. see if their version sounds credible to you. that and more when 360 continues.

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keeping them honest at any time, we're continuing our reporting on a man named walid shoebat. he lectures claiming to be an expert on islamic terrorism. he says he once was a terrorist and he sells his consulting services sometimes at taxpayer expense. last night on this program we revealed after the much investigation cnn could find no evidence to back his claims he was once a terrorist who had been arrested in israel. he's not the only so-called expert whose background may not be as advertised. recent reporting finds a number of so-called experts teaching and in some cases preaching

about terrorism may not really know what they're talking about. the department of homeland security has handed out at least $80 million in training grants over the past five years, some of that money spent on speakers like walid shoebat. recently susan collins and joe lieber mann asked the department of homeland security and justice department to account for how federal training dollars are spent for what they call inflammatory rhetoric. tonight we look at how walid shoebat makes his money and what he does with it. drew griffin has part two of his investigation. >> reporter: it's clear walid shoebat does not like tough questions. >> that's a stupid question. >> reporter: he became even more defensive when we began asking about his foundations, his tax-exempt status and all the money he is making. he has turned what some might call hate speech into a career, trading on his past to advise law enforcement officials and anti-terrorist groups about the threat of islamic radicals. he says he was a palestinian terrorist, jailed by the israelis.

but it's a life story based on very little evidence. but it sure pays well. tax records filed by his business partner reveal his speaking engagements earned more than $560,000 in 2009. >> so why the skepticism if somebody collects half a million dollars. you think it goes into my pock sunset it's absolutely untrue. >> reporter: like his answers, his tax return is vague on specifics. and his various businesses and foundations? well, that's vague, too. >> how much do you get paid for these? >> speaking engagements? >> not that much. if you look at my salary, i make like what a gas station makes, what a garage makes. i mean, everybody this i'm just raking in the dough which is absolutely not. >> the walid shoebat foundation, is that a charity? >> the walid shoebat foundation is the ffmu. >> what does ffmu? >> basically we're in

information and we do speaking and we do also helping christians that are being persecuted in countries like pakistan. and we help christians who are suffering all throughout the middle east. >> and how do you do that? >> none of your business. >> isn't it anyone's business who donates to you? >> of course. but you see, a lot of the times if you disclose information who you're helping, it end up biting. >> reporter: the business in fact shoebat leaves to his manager keith davies who was down the hall selling shoebat's anti-islam books. when cnn had specific questions about the business, like perhaps the names of the high-ranking generals and experts he says are on his board of advisors, well, shoebat said get the names from davies. >> walid said that you would be able to tell us about your advisory board. you guys said you have generals and other high-ranking officials? >> correct. >> can you tell us who they are? >> off the top of my head, yes. let me see.

i'm trying to think. names gone blank. they'll come back to me in a second. major general -- i can't remember. four star -- a three star general of the air force. irish name. thomas -- i usually know these all by heart. >> reporter: davies did come up with one name, a pilot, but no contact details despite repeated requests from cnn. we made calls to the individual, anyway, but he never called us back. the group's public tax forms lists only davies and a real estate developer as board members, both with the same address. shoebat davies run several foundations and three web sites that are all linked, a confusing model considering the group's tax returns for the past four years contain very little

information. in fact, while shoebat has a foundation bearing his name, no tax forms could be found on public sites. day veez said they are merged together. >> the other question, wall lead said i should ask you, is about money. >> you don't ask anybody else here about the money. >> well, you have all these foundations. and i'm trying to find out where this money goes in terms of charity, what is the foundation? >> well, most of the money is used to help persecuted christians in the middle east. the media doesn't want to talk about. >> i'll talk about it if you can give me any information about that. >> we have a web site that you can have all the information that we do on our web site, rescue christians.org. >> i read that. it's very unspecific as to what exactly is going on, where the money is going. keith, i got to ask you because i do a lot of this type of reporting on charities, organizations that collect money for various funds. everything is not very transparent. are you running a scam here? >> oh, absolutely.

a big scam. i'm not answering. you're trying to scam us all the time. we are a very legitimate organization. we've been around for eight years. six or seven years, files with theist you can have a look at the forms. we'll send you copies of the tax returns if you want. >> reporter: he never did but we found some on other web sites. the money is coming from universities and churches and from your tax dollars. some of his appearances are paid out of homeland security grants. the dhs in south dakota told us shoebat was paid $5,000 plus expenses to speak at this event. and he was given security. but shoebat told us -- >> no, there's no expenses paid. the hotel i paid myself. the hotel i paid today myself. >> reporter: the bigger question may be why walid shoebat is in south dakota teaching a bunch of cops about islamic terrorists, a state that has so few moslems the local newspaper here in rapid city says only a couple of

dozen live here year-round. >> south dakota's homeland security director. >> what was the point of bring him here? >> i think he brings a point of view that certainly is not necessarily mainstream, it's not a south dakota-based point of view. he brings in commentary about living and being raised as a moslem and then converting over to christianity. >> so why would someone's religious conversion be important to a homeland security conference in rapid city, south dakota? >> reporter: i really couldn't figure that out. and based on further questions i really didn't get a good answer from jim carpenter with the south dakota department of homeland security. the federal department of homeland security, anderson, we went to tried to find out if they do any vetting of speakers, if they had any idea about shoebat. if anyone in the federal government did what we have done, try to check out all his claims. well, what we got from homeland security was a statement that said, "if states use dhs grants

for speakers it's up to the states to vet them. " we also got them, "if training programs do not meet these standards, dhs standards, corrective action will be taken. we have not and will not tolerate training programs" says the dhs or any dhs-supported program that rely on racial or ethnic profiling". anderson, based on the three sessions we sat in with walid shoebat in our interview with them, we can tell you he does advocate profiling and flatly being suspicious of anybody who's muslim. >> his reaction to you kind of turned usingly. >> it sure did. not just him, too. south dakota's homeland security people actually tried to keep us out of the conference. we got in only after they had to call the governor's office. as for shoebat, he did get testy. later sessions after that interview he began attacking the media, specifically cnn for doubting his story. he has since accused us and you, anderson, of being used by the council on american islamic relations, even suggesting that group was the primary source for our report, which of course is

not true. >> and it's interesting. i mean, if somebody's running a legitimate foundation that's tax-exempt and stuff, usually they're very willing to be transparent and willing to give documents and stuff. it sounds like those guys were saying we'll send you these documents and then nothing shows up. >> no. and it's all wrapped in this secrecy and security. they're under the impression we're asking for the names of some christian trainees in the middle east that are being persecuted. we're not. we're just trying to figure out where is the money going because we cannot find out where this money is going. >> it's also interesting in your piece because shoebat said oh, well this foundation is part of this other thing and it pays for speaking and teaching which basically is what he does. oh, and also helping christians. the other guy said it mainly goes to helping christians. and yet again no details. >> i think you could see from the reporting, we couldn't get a straight answer about anything from just about anybody. that reporting continued in our various e-mails and contacts with these fellows after that.

it was just a very confusing. and in the past when we've done reporting like this, the more confusing, the less transparent things are, the more questions need to be asked i think by dhs and other federal authorities. >> yeah. interesting, that they haven't been. drew, appreciate the reporting. great job as always coming up, a horrifying story in brooklyn. an 8-year-old boy murdered. this is surveillance video of him walking in his neighborhood on tuesday evening. just hours later his body was found. now, a 35-year-old man is charged with his murder. police say there's a confession. we're going to -- i'm going to read you parts of the confession. just stunning stuff ahead. also casey anthony will walk out of an orlando jail just three days from now. brand-new detail about her release. we'll get a live update from gary tuchman in orlando now. ♪

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crime and punishment tonight, casey anthony will be a free woman in just three days. tonight we have brand-new details about the logistics of her release given the high-profile nature of the case and strong public reaction to her acquittal. gary tuchman reports. >> reporter: prisoners are released every day from the orange county florida jail. but perhaps none of them with the level of note right that will greet casey anthony when she leaves sunday after her stunning acquit tals. her attorney jose baez talked to abc news about how her notoriety could bring danger. >> are you worried about her safety? there's such antagonism towards her. >> i am. i am. and i'm afraid for her. >> will she have bodyguards? >> you know, we're in the

process of try to take that next step for her and assist her in that regard. so i don't know. >> reporter: so now there is an intense security plan in place. casey anthony will be released from this jail on sunday, as early as 12:01 a.m. we don't know how she'll be taken out. we don't know where she'll go. but the sheriff's office is allowing two news photographers to videotape and take still photos of her leaving. once she's safely gone, we'll be allowed to televise the images of her going free. >> i don't think they can treat her like any other inmate in terms of the release. it would be irresponsible given the frenzy surrounding casey anthony. because again, while she is in their custody prior to release, they have to protect her. so that release is still part of their purview. >> reporter: but where will casey anthony go and will she change her appearance? after all, this is a woman whose face is now known everywhere in the country.

>> if her attorneys are doing the right thing and doing their jobs, they are going to have to explain to her that there is real hatred out there for her, that there have been death threats, that she cannot just walk amongst the population. that is not going to happen. >> reporter: jose baez visited her in jail on thursday afternoon. he is not saying anything about casey anthony's plans. but another defense attorney, cheney mason, has issued some speculation. >> she's only 25 years old. a decade from now, hopefully, she will have some stability in her life and maybe a husband and they can be somewhere in montana and start over. >> reporter: casey anthony's journey to montana or elsewhere is only a couple of days away. >> so gary, do authorities expect demonstrators at the jail when she's released? >> reporter: well, all's quiet at the jail right now, anderson. but they don't know what's going to happen tomorrow night and sunday. they're prepared for the eventuality of the possibility

of a lot of people turning out. >> she does have fans. i understand you learned fans have actually been sending her money in jail. >> reporter: that's right. i mean, her parents have not sent her any money in the last three years. but we've seen records that have shown at least 15 different people have sent at least $470 to her account here at the jail which she's used for food, for coz metrics, for other purchases. and you wonder. why we talked to one of the women who has sent money to casey anthony. her name is chrsti davis and she lives in the st. petersburg area. she's in her 50s, on disability. she doesn't have much money. but she tells us she spent 40 bucks to casey anthony because she believes casey anthony is innocent. she's scared for casey anthony. she says even before the trial started, she knew that caylee drowned. that's what she tells us. >> all right, gary, appreciate it.

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in crime and punishment, a close-knit religious community in new york is reeling tonight from a killing that can only be described as depraifed and profoundly profoundly disturbing. we want to warn you upfront some

of the details are gruesome. the victim is a little boy named leibby clet i ask, he was just eight years old. on monday he got lost while walking home from his day camp. it was the first time his mom had aloud him to walk home alone. they practiced to make sure little leibby newt route but he apparently missed a turn and got lost. you can see him in the surveillance video carrying his backpack and bag. imagine how scared he must have been realizing he was lost. so he asked for help. police say the adult he turned to was this man, levi aaron who police say confessed to killing leeb bill. he was charged today with first degree murder and kidnapping. lawyers say he here is voices and has lewis mates. police found leibby's remains last night in his freezer and his dumpster. in his confession aaron said he panicked when he saw flyers with leibby's picture. neighbors had been helping authorities look for the boy since monday. the confession continues "that is when approximately i went for a towel to smother him in the side room. he fought back a little bit until eventually he stopped breathing.

afterwards i panicked because i didn't know what to do with the body". aaron goes on to describe what he did with leibby's body. too grewsome for us to repeat tonight. the confession ends "i understand this may be wrong and i'm sorry for the hurt that i have caused". may be wrong. it's hard to imagine what leibby's family is going through right now. new york assemblyman dov heikind represents his community. you've spoke ton members of the family. it's a dumb question. obviously you can't describe how they're doing. >> the family, the grandparents, stunned beyond belief in the kind of pain that i don't wish on anybody. i mean, to lose your 8-year-old, millions of children go to camp every single morning, day camp. and they come home and they're fine. this 7, 8-year-old, he went to camp and never returned. there is such shock, disbelief. if you walk through the community people are numb. people just cannot believe what

happened. and the reaction not just in brooklyn, new york but all over the country. it's not a brooklyn story. it's about every child in every place. and it's about protecting your children because this child walked the streets of one of the safest communities anywhere, a crime rate doesn't exist. >> and it's in a tightly-knit religious community. when i first heard this i thought maybe this is from somebody outside the community. to know this is somebody who was known in the community. >> yeah. that was the additional shock, you know, god forbid something like this happens who did it. and you sort of have all kind of expectations. it must have been somebody from there, from there. and no, it end up being somebody who actually prays at a local synagogue. for two days thousands of people came into the community from all over, jew and non-jew. it was an amazing, amazing thing to watch, hoping against hope to find this child day and night volunteers worked. the police department used every

resource available to find this 8-year-old. and that was a remarkable story. but it ended so horribly, so terribly. >> and the parents of this child, thankfully they don't watch television so they haven't been told any details. they don't know -- >> the grandparents actually told me today the mother does not know any of the details. when i saw her prior to the child being found dead, she was a mess. she was out of control. this was prior. afterwards, i can't even imagine what a parent, what a grandparent goes through. >> and they did everything right in terms -- i mean, they had -- she had walked the route with him multiple times. they had discussed whether or not he should walk home alone. this was a big step in his life. >> absolutely. he wanted this little bit of freedom. he was only 8, almost 9. he wanted to be able to walk a little bit. and what parent does not want to give their child a little bit of freedom?

and this is a safe community. this was 5:00. people were outside. >> so random that he just happened to stumble upon this man and at least we think it's random at this point and asked the man for help. >> there are still a lot of questions. there are still a lot of questions. but the bottom line is that this 35-year-old man took this child, this 8-year-old, and while the police have not identified whether it was meant for sexual abuse, the question is, 35-year-old man, 8-year-old child? what was he going to do with him? >> and people in the community now are coming forward and saying, well, you know, i had suspicions about this man. and he tried to get my little boy in a car once. or he gave a lift to my child. and when you hear that, i mean, it's just a reminder to all of us that, you know what? if you suspect something, say something to somebody. >> you know, in our community, an amazing community, wonderful community, people have not yet gotten to the point of understanding there's nothing to

be ashamed of when you have people in the community who are abusers, sexual abusers of children, pedophiles. people need to do, they need to act. and maybe this will be the wake-up call for people. and also the message for everybody in terms of your own children. how do you protect your in america anywhere in the world. you don't want to be overly protective. you don't want to scare your children. but you need to do more to protect your children. that's the message here. that's the lesson here. you need to act. when people look like you, children trust people that look like their father. in our case if you're hassidic with a beard and so on, that's not the case. just because someone looks like, hey, that person looks okay, that doesn't mean they are okay by any means. >> yeah. well, i'm glad the family is a strong family and has a lot of community support. and please give them our best in this difficult time. >> thank you, anderson.

>> earlier i talked about leibby's killing with dr. drew pinsky host of hln's "dr. drew" and sunny hostin, a former federal prosecutor. >> dr. drew, you read this guy's -- the alleged confession from this guy, which we got through wnbc. and the last line of it really struck me. he's described smothering this child to death basically cutting the child up, moving around the pieces of the child trying to dispose of the pieces of the child. the last line he says "i understand this may be wrong and i'm sorry for the hurt i have caused". he understands that it may be wrong? i mean, what do you make of this? >> well, i make that this is somebody who doesn't see right and wrong very effectively. the fact that he could only say that this might be wrong as opposed to understanding the depraved quality that he has -- in which he has behaved. it's chilling to hear somebody say that. it makes me think that he might

be one of these people that truly doesn't understand right and wrong. severe sociopathy to the level of psychopathy. we will find more evidence of this kind of nonsense. >> this alleged confession. "when i got home he was still there, so i made him a tuna sandwich. i was still in a panic and afraid to bring him home. that is when approximately i went for a towel to smother him in the side room. he fought back a little bit until eventually he stopped breathing". sunny, do you see any red flags here at this point? >> i mean, obviously there's a mental health issue. and when he was arraigned on first degree murder and kidnapping that came up. and so there is going to be that mental evaluation. >> and we heard from people in the neighborhood, we're hearing now from people in the neighborhood who said they had suspicions about this guy long before this. they didn't want their kids around him. he would give ride to kids in his beat up car. he would be outside playgrounds. >> those are the red flags. those are the red flags. if you have adults that want to

be around children, adults that don't have children of their own or even adults that have children of their own that play all the time with children, want to give children rides, that is certainly a red flag. that fits within the pedophile and the sociopathic profile that prosecutors look for. but in this case it seems to have come out of nowhere. he has no record. he was sort of a loner apparently, shy, a bit odd is how he's also described. and so i think one of the lessons out of this terrible tragedy is that people like this are just around us. and i think it lulled everyone into this false sense of security because he looked like everyone else. >> well, especially in a tightly-knit religious community. but drew, you think more will come out about patterns of this guy? >> i do. but i aglee with what sunny is saying. i would add please trust your instincts. you don't owe anybody anything other than your children and to protect your children. if you feel uncomfortable around somebody, you owe them nothing. get away from them. keep your kids away from that. these parents had good instincts. they need to listen to them. that's why more kids haven't been harmed in this particular

case. i do believe the quality with which he is describing this act as being maybe wrong or i think it was wrong or people might see it as wrong suggest how disconnected he is from the experience and from what he's done. somebody who's that far gone, that far up the sociopathic scale probably has done other things. >> this guy is 35 years old. i mean, there's got to be more out there. not like this suddenly emerged at this age. >> i think that's right. and i think what's also interesting to note is that he was married, he lived in memphis, tennessee. and his wife, ex-wife, claims that she was sort of blind-sided by this. and other discussion that i think has come out of this is many parents are thinking, can i let my 8-year-old boy walk by himself from camp? and i have an 8-year-old son. and it is a question that i think parents ask themselves all the time. when can you give your child that leeway? when can you give them that freedom? but in today's society, unfortunately i'm not trying to blame the parents here, in

today's world i don't think it's something you can do. >> it's just stunning. >> you can't be vigilant enough. you cannot be vigilant enough. >> dr. drew, thanks. sunny hostin, thanks. so sad those videos of the little boy walking down the street. ♪ hey, gramps, what do you got in there? well, a trout lure, a set of dentures, broadway albums. you know -- stuff. yeah. about that. that big wheel behind us... yeah? he's got a flat-screen, swivel chairs, and a fridge.

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something for you to think about as you fall asleep. >> it is something. i'm actually rewriting something in the ridiculist. i'm sorry. i was distracted. >> you weren't even paying attention to me. okay. fine. fine fine fine. >> this is like that presenter on the bbc that we heard last night who was like, who did i go to that movie with? it was you. but i'm going to be here with you each and every night. so just remember that. >> it was just a one-line thing. i had to rewrite something. i'm sorry. >> good by.

on this you can keep them on the show for six years and people criticize you for not being realistic or you could be true to life and 7 started the show they were clearly sophomores and they should graduate at the end of their senior. i am not exactly that i have seen the show and i can guess the crop is not, except a realistic high-school. >> giving you all might trade secrets. you are on your own. ♪ >> that takes me back. that always happens in high school. they cannot have this realism by letting three of their stars stay on the show past their

prime. otherwise it should be susceptible to the effect. also known as the no way result is a teenager principle. then again now way she is a teenager. their youngsters. actually, ralph macchio still chances looks very young as we discovered when he went to see his shrink on "head case". take a look. >> i applied to college. >> oh, really? >> oh, yes. i'm older maybe than you think. >> okay. >> okay. so i'm married, you know, i have a wife and two kids now. >> oh, you're married. >> yeah. >> okay. and your kids are um barbie and ken? cabbage patch? >> look what i've got. >> oh, well, pick a color. >> i've got pops for you. >> pick a color. >> i liked "head case". all i know is.

this there was no need to get rid of these characters. these gloomers are taking it way too far with their outrage. nobody should get as upset about something as silly as a favorite character leaving a tv show. >> for me to give back, that's what feeds my soul. that's what makes me feel good as a person. i mean, i live for that. that completes me. >> you complete me camille. you can't leave. you just can't. i'm sorry. okay, look, that was different. that was camille grammar on real housewives of beverly hills. gleeks, it will be okay. one day you'll get over curt or rachel and finn, too. i'm not saying it's going to be easy. if you get too sad break out in a spontaneous sad and dance number that. ought to work on the ridiculist. we'll be right back host: could switching to geico really save you 15% or more on car insurance? host: do people use smartphones to do dumb things?

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