he'd expect nothing else. >> i will. i'll tell him that you sent loves and hugs and kisses. >> oh, my god. you've just made my skin crawl. daniel baldwin, thank you very much indeed. >> god bless. >> that's it for us tonight.

so powerful, they have not pinpointed the genesis of the bomb. the young man who says he witnessed the island rampage identified this man as the gunman, but police have not

confirmed that. >> i think it's too early to comment on the motives and on what is the reasons behind the attacks, both in oslo and at the labor youth camp. we are very -- it's very important for us to be clear when it comes to the responsibility of the police and the political responsibility of the government. the police have just started the investigations. one man is arrested and i think we will wait until we can see more results before we comment on the motives, the ideology or the possible political motives for such attacks. >> that was the prime minister there just a short time ago. now on the phone with us from oslo is norway's foreign

minister who was with the prime minister in the news conference. thank you for joining us, sir. i know right now you are not prepared to say anything more about the suspect, but can you say is there any information about whether he had accomplices? >> the police is sticking to one suspect. i think we have to respect that. if there is to be any speculation it's whether one person can do both attacks, policeman them and execute them. >> being there and seeing the crime scene and seeing that island, can you fathom that this one person carried this out? >> well, i guess -- i spent a whole day on the island on thursday when the theme was politics and joy and youthfulness, and the day after

it was turned into hell on earth. i spent the last hours of this night with relatives, mothers and fathers and grandparents and sisters of those who have lost loved ones, and it's a tremendous pain, you know, sendsing off young people to a cheerful summer camp and then you have a massacre unfolding. this is a day for norway to come together as a community and say to the rest of the world we will not close in on ourselves and remain an open democracy and that i think is a very strong message that we will be sending. >> nobody clearly knows his motive, but the police indicated he is going to explain himself as he is inteaerrogatedinterrog. as we look at pictures on the screen of the people being rescued and you talked with the families and the victims, i am

sure the world cannot imagine what these people went through and what these families are going through now. we heard the prime minister stay say he has gone to this island since 1974, that this was a place, as you say, where you were just yesterday, and it must be hard for people to comprehend the scope of this tragedy and happening at a place as you described, of such a treasure for norway. >> well, the labor party and another summer camps have been out on that island for decades, and it's an institution that in part has been used together, and this one has traditional, and the kids that have gone there have been looking forward to it and qualifying for it and the parents have felt safe because it's about politics and joy. now we have terror happening and unfolding. that is, of course, drama, and

these young people have gone through a terrible, terrible moment, and it's time really to care for them and for all of those who are now missing their loved ones. >> do you know how many people are still missing from the island or are unaccounted for? >> there are about 600 participants at the camp. we now have a confirmation of 84 killed. that number may still rise. and there are a number of wounded. so that gives you, you know, an indication of the scope of the disaster. >> we appreciate your joining us, norway's foreign minister. thank you so much. we wish you well. cnn's jim boulden is there gathering information on the story and the investigation and suspect and joins us now by phone. what can you tell us from your vantage point about what you

know from the suspect and his motives? >> reporter: the police have given more information in a press briefing. they were mentioning the man's name. we do know the name in the media in the last few hours, the 32-year-old norwegian, and he is a christian fundamentalist with right-wing views, and they found no evidence of any connection to any sort of muslim groups. i also heard them say that he used a machine pistol, i think that's the right words, on the island. and as the foreign minister just said, 84 people died so far. the police officer said they were searching the water for bodies, which, of course, is an ominous tone to that statement. they were searching the island

and looked through many of the buildings and looked around the wooded areas, and the police said they are searching the water for bodies. >> it's amazing they have two vast crime scenes to pore over and investigate. you have an island where hundreds were and then oslo, government buildings in shamb s shambles. >> reporter: we're not able to get up to the government buildings themselves, but certainly the cleanup continues. the tape is obviously still around many parts, and the cleanup went right through the night. there were police cordons, and police with machine guns to show force, and mostly what i saw were cleanup crews, breaking glass in higher windows, to make sure they could get that out so

it didn't fall on to anybody, and cleaning up the glass in the streets. it was an enormous amount of destruction in that part, and even just so many windows being blown out, well beyond the immediate side of the blast. >> cnn's jim bouldan there in oslo. a young person who lived through the shooting on the island described the scene of terror. he said the gunman lied to get on the island even as the campers were talking about the bombing that just ripped through oslo. here is how it played out according to a man that was there. >> when we realized there was a bombing in oslo, and there were much -- many people were unsure and many people were seeking information, and so we decided to gather all the people in our

rooms and tell them what actually happened. so this meeting was from just one hour before this man came along and tell us that he is a police officer, and he wants to come to this and support us with this, and we, of course, allowed him to come. when he came over i heard a few shots going out, so nobody actually knew what happened and suddenly people were starting to run as fast as they could. i was standing there and i realized what was happening. i did see he was shooting at the people and the people just fell

like two meters in front of me. so i started running as well as all of us did to the water, and we tried to swim over, but some of us returned back to the island because it was 700 meters to the other side. >> so you're sitting there and you're running, and this policeman has come up and said that he is there to help you, and all of a sudden you realize actually this policeman is starting to shoot all of you, and were you -- how close did you get to the shooter? were you able to see him? where were you shot? >> people approached him as he was actually shooting, because they thought that maybe this was a drill or maybe this was a test, or maybe something, but nobody expected this to be for real, because, come on, how can

this happen in a summer camp in norway? so many people were still unsure as they were swimming over, but as he opened fire to the water and shot people that tried to swim over to the shores, i realized i cannot follow the men and i returned. and as i laid down on the shore -- >> one of the victims talking there, but now there's another news conference with the police and we'll listen in now. this is live. >> translator: this is the mayor of oslo. he is thinking the police for

their efforts. great effort so far in a very tragic situation. it's good to know that you have people to help you. my greetings. so this is the oslo municipality. it's a practical guiding about what is going on. also a municipality -- and the civic center, people can come

and mourn -- >> that was the mayor talking there of oslo. all of the authorities that we have been talking with continue to talk about right now as the investigation goes on is just a time to mourn and to come together. our in depth coverage of the killings in norway continue after this.

a city known for peace is reeling tonight following a string of violent attacks, some aimed at children. norwegian leaders held a meeting after an attack. 17 people were killed in the two attacks and that number expected to rise. the two local incidents are linked. we're following the latest in oslo. diana, what do we know? >> reporter: tom, i am standing in front of the main buildings

here. it's an eerie feeling here on a friday night. they are trying to remove the glass which the first blast blew out many of the windows in the government quarter. it was targeting the one building which housed the prime minister's office. he was not there at the time, but seven people were killed at least in that explosion. and they said recently, the first explosion that happened midafternoon, 90 people have been hospitalized as a result of that. and then there was a second attack which occurred, as you say, on this island that is 20 miles from the center of oslo. a man dressed as a policeman is said to have taken out a handgun and took shots at teenagers

attending the labor party camp. 650 of them, and they were there discussing political issues. the prime minister is from the labor party and he was due to arrive on the island tomorrow. we are hearing from police that there have been undetonated explosives on that island which must be making the search for bodies and injured people there slow at this time. one man taken into custody, a 32-year-old norwegian man. they are not ruling out people could have been involved in the situation. they are saying it would have been possible time wise for the suspect to have detonated the bomb here in the center of town and traveled on to the island where he carried out those second shootings in which at

least ten people, some children, lost their lives. >> thank you for that report. we appreciate it. a norway police official told the associated press the attacks do not appear linked to islamic terrorism. while there has been no official claim for the attacks, cables released by wikileaks show a country unprepared for a terror attack. one authority shows that the norwegians felt terrorism happens elsewhere. and fran, if this indeed turns out to be something that is based in their own country, it seems to me that is the very thing you and i discussed many times, which is that many times countries think more of terrorists being from somewhere else. >> this is a tragic event.

it has had all the hall maukz, if you will, tom, of being a terror attack. large explosions. a big bomb in oslo, and then a guy who steals is police uniform or creates one and then goes to the camp, and he also had mom-making materials or a bomb on the island. you begin to say this is an awful big sort of incident to have just one person. so for a lot of reasons i think people assume, based on recent history over the last ten years, of an international terrorism conspiracy. we're now hearing maybe not. this may be a right wing extremist. somebody from their midst. >> fran, this reminds me of the oklahoma city bombing. when that happened it was also so big the initial idea was this had to be a group of some sort, and i guess it was. there were two people involved. it was not a massive group nor a big effort. >> that's right.

i think one, you will find this will be hard to do alone. the times square bomber, it's hard to have one guy to get the materials and put it together correctly and detonate it. it's reasonable to suspect he had some amount of help. and we are hearing from media sources the individual in custody may have been a farmer. that would explain his access to large quantities of fertilizer to make such a big bomb that went off in oslo. you will learn a lot more from officials in norway to make sense out of this tragedy. >> did you have a sense in your time working with the government that there was some senses of places like norway that terrorism was something that could not come there, because in fairness, before 9/11 and the first world trade center attack, we felt it could not come here either. >> it's true, but the wikileaks cable comes from several years ago. in recent years, my

understanding from a u.s. counterterrorism officials is that norway did begin to understand it could happen there. they were a country that also published the cartoon of the profit, muhammad. and there had been interaction with him recently, the leader. and i think the intelligence community had begun to see the possibility of an attack there. >> doesn't zawahri say there could be an attack there. >> yeah, and they did say they would -- >> i mention that simply because we want to make clear why people think of islamic terrorism. fran, is there any lesson that

could come out of this for other countries. one is a reitation that you cannot look at your borders or airports, but you have to look at your own population at the same time you are looking at the population of the world that we live in. >> for that reason, all countries have to have a crisis management plan. you have to know who is in charge and who is responsible for the investigation, and you want to have countries that are resilient so they can bounce back from this. i think the prime minister struck the right note when they said whoever did this you cannot bomb us into silence, and we're a society that will bounce back and not be fearful. >> thank you so much for joining us. the heat is also rising on another story overseas tonight. the hacking scandal in britain, the latest, a member of parliament is suggesting that one of the murdochs flat out lied when he spoke to the

government leaders earlier this week, and he joins us from london when we come back.

new developments in britain's phone hacking scandal in depth tonight as the son of rupert murdoch comes under scrutiny. scotland yard was urged to open a criminal investigation into claims that the news corp. lied to parliament. this after a day of two former employees accused murdoch of giving mistaken evidence. he was the one hammering away at both murdochs about what they knew and when they knew it, and tom watson joins us from london. thank you so much for being here. you say this is the most significant moment in two years of phone hacking investigations, and it all centers on an e-mail involving an ex-news of the world reporter. explain. >> yes, the significance of this

is the top team of news of the world are fragmenting. for the former lawyer to accuse murdoch of misleading parliament is serious in itself, and if he is accurate, and james murdoch disputes it, but if the lawyer is accurate it shows that james murdoch knew there was other criminal wrong doing in 2008, and failed to report it to the police, and he also settled a case with a crime victim that came with a con ffidentiality clause, and he could have been buying silence, which in this country is an illegal act, and that's why i referred it to the police. >> what happened here? there was an e-mail from one reporter to another about illegal hacking going on that

mr. murdoch apparently knew about, or at least the other officers said he did know about, and he sat in front of you and said he did not know about it? is that it in a nutshell? >> yeah, there was a voice message trance scribed that had been illegally hacked and he sent it to another journalists and the journalism got the documentation through court disclosure and at that point the lawyer and the editor of the paper go to murdoch and say we think we should settle the case, and here is a e-mail saying others were aware of hacking into the can company, and what do you want to do? he signed off on the case for ten times more than the victim could have expected to get in a civil court in london. it really is a huge amount of money. >> you think he was just buying silence? is that what you think noo that's the allegation. and the former editor of "news

of the world" and the lawyer would know the significance of their statement when they made it yesterday. it really is a big issue here in london. >> i want to play that statement, though, so we can see it clearly. murdoch denied any knowledge of the e-mail, and let's look at what he said when he talked to you earlier this week. >> when you signed off the taylor payment, did you see or were you amade of wear of the transfer for the e-mail message? >> i was not aware of the message at the time. >> and i want to show the statement you made reference to a moment ago that james murdoch denies misleading parliament by that, and he said, quote, i stand behind my testimony to the select committee. how are you going to prove otherwise if ultimately he says

i was mistaken at the moment, and i was not sure which e-mail you were talking about, and how can you prove it? >> that's why i want the police to investigate. what we know the former editor of the paper and the company lawyer are telling the truth or james murdoch is. both of them cannot be right. the point is, if the police establish that james murdoch did know about the e-mail, and the lawyer is right, it's a very, very serious situation. that's why i think it's urgent and that's why i referred it to the head of the investigation earlier today. >> what can happen to james murdoch if the police find out that he did lie? >> well, if they found he bought the silence -- knowingly bought the silence of a crime victim, and, again, to repeat, he denies this and sticks by his statement. if it becomes the case then the crime would be prevurting the course of justice, which is a serious offense in the uk. >> the prime minister, david

cameron, said today that james murdoch, quote, still has questions to answer in parliament. what would you want to ask him about? >> well, we are having trouble pulling our committee together. i would certainly think that now given that we pulled rupert murdoch in front of us, i would expect that we put the lawyer, and the former editor and james murdoch in front of us so that we could get to the facts and workout ourselves which one is telling the truth? >> you know stories like this have a public life that rises and falls a little bit. this has been white hot over the past couple of weeks, and perhaps maybe some of the interest may die off on it. what are your concerns for the energy for the investigation and the enthusiasm for pursuing

this, especially because you are right, you are in recess now and you have to get the energy up and everybody back onboard? >> the amazing thing about the story is it nearly was not told. they nearly got away with hacking phones on an industrial scale and covering it up. i think that is blown open. there are plenty of decent investigative journalists on the case, and we have a republic inquiry led by a judge, and the scottish police launched a investigation today, and the public opinion -- they are very, very concerned about it. this was covert surveillance. it was illegal. there are hundreds, if not thousands of victims. that's the sort of thing that went on in the former soviet union states, and parliament is going to make sure that we create the conditions that a

newspaper group no matter how powerful are never allowed to get to this situation again. >> tom, thank you for joining us. up next, the end of don't ask don't tell. the secretary of defense and the joint chief say repeal it. the president is ready to give the order, but like everything else in the military, one command never changes. hurry up and wait.

well, it is finally the end of an era.

the pentagon formally certified the repeal of don't ask don't tell officially ending the 18-year ban keeping lesbians and gays from serving in the military. it's the end of a long journey for my next guess, a former army lieutenant. he played a key role as an arab speaker, but because he came out as gay, army was discharged from the army. thank you for coming on the show. >> thank you. >> you gave up a distinguished career. how do you feel today? >> it's a vindication in one aspect but there's a lot more to be done. i will want for this president to not push for a nondiscrimination policy. we need to keep fighting.

this is not the end. this is just basic training. >> you have been very disappointed in political leaders across the spectrum, including this president who you thought was going to lead the charge, and i am sure would like to have credit for leading the charge, but you don't feel he did. >> all politicians love to take credit for anything. i credit all the soldiers who stud up and broke the law in order to get this done. and that's amazing that we're even saying this. soldiers should have to come up on tv and get arrested and protest and become activist when they are trained to be not activist -- >> the idea of saying, you know, you were trained to follow orders and aggressively say i am going to disobey orders from the highest level because i think it's right. >> we were trained in military obedience, and it was hard to make the transition, and the fact that we had to be an

activist was the greatest shame that our politicians failed us, and they said be patient and wait and don't criticize. it's not our job as soldiers to rise up against the system, but sometimes we had to do that in order to fight for the meaning of this country. >> i don't want to dwell on the political side of this too much, but you voiced you would like to find a republican to support in the next election. why would you want to do that and what is important about that to people who are concerned about gay or lesbian rights? >> why should i endorse president obama? i think the question is fair. i am not a vindictive man or vingful, and if i was vindictive, i would say president obama if you want my endorsement i will have a study about that, and we'll have a comprehensive review working group and then we will get you fired and then we will start to talk to other people and allow a

platform for everybody else to hate you on -- >> that's what you feel like you have heard, delay, delay, delay. isn't it amazing you finally reach the point and it's 60 days before this will be in effect? >> i think we would be very smart to remember what martin luther king said about waiting for black people in america, the word wait was a familiar term. >> he had a famous book named "why we cannot wait." that was the title of it. >> soldiers and anybody that learned in basic training, when you have a fight worth fighting you pour your soul into it. leadership is not based on political positioning or rank status or paycheck. it's not about personal gain, but it's about being part of something that is greater than you. when these soldiers go back into

the military, they should be honored and dignified to the point where they get fair treatment and their partners and spouses could get legalized recognition that the american flag that comes to the spouse, and it doesn't go to a fake wife or husband but the actual lover, the person that dignified and s supported throughout their life. >> where are you in re-enlisting? is it going to happen? >> i remember the last time in the fall, because of the appeal, the court case, i was not allowed to fully re-enlist, and it was a heart-breaking day for me. i hope to go back in whatever capacity -- >> you still want to be a soldier soldier serving this country? >> i believe that serving our country is fighting for two things, for freedom and justice. as an activist i learned that, and whether or not the military

likes it, the military training helped me to be a better activist, than what the activist has taught me about what serving my country really is. >> congratulations on the long fight that has reached this day. we heard the president is the principal and bringing all the bad boys and girls in his office to tomorrow. what will that lead to? a deal? we'll talk about that when we come back. our mobility and your life. one medicare benefit that, with private insurance, may entitle you to pay little to nothing to own it. one company that can make it all happen ... your power chair will be paid in full. the scooter store. hi i'm doug harrison. we're experts at getting you the power chair or scooter you need.

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our big story tonight is the surprising and seemingly complete collapse of talks over the debt ceiling this afternoon, and we need to listen to one particular mow many in the president's comments. >> it is hard to understand why speaker boehner would walk away from this kind of deal, and if you look at the commentary out there, there are a lot of republicans that are puzzled as to why it could not get done. there are a lot of republican voters who are puzzled as to why it could not get done. >> one possible explanation, the tea party.

there was a rising drurm beat of more traditional types. they took a take no prizers, and accept no increased taxes that it was fundamentally derailing at any work of a compromise. it would be great for tea partiers, but what about everybody else? joining me from washington is cnn contributor, john avalon, and in the studio, steve cornak. are people turning on the tea party because i hear rumbles of that? >> independent voters are starting to sway against the republican party especially when it comes to the question who will get the blame if default does occur? that's significant. and they voted decisively for the republican party in the

mid-term 2011 elections. and the checks and balances that come with it. they voted for divided, not dysfunctional government. they see the far right of the republican party holing the country and congress hostage. >> you say the far right. when you say that, do you mean on this fiscal issue, the tea party? >> well, yeah. with the tea party it's important to put this in perspective. i do believe the tea party was isra

initially founded by the debt, and then there was a real dislike of bipartisanship. >> let me bring in steve. can you say there are two types of tea party memberships, one is i want something like this, and then the other is i am against government, period, tea party. >> there was a lot of that when you looked at the beginning of two years ago. there was a strong libertarian strain in the tea party movement, i think. it was not about either party but about the philosophy that the government has gotten way too big. this is something that has been happening for decades and generations. i think the republican party was very skillful at doing this. they recognized this message had so much residence, they brought it into their party. in a lot of ways they brought it against their wishes. >> there was a real sense that at one point the tea party was independent voters, the voice of reason in the middle. do you think that still exists? >> no, and i always rejected the tea party was sin nonmus with

tea partiers. i believe the tea party is fund m -- fundamentally. really, the question for me is when did fiscal responsibility and responsibility get de-linked. they understood that that -- that the world's super tower cannot be the largest debtor nation indefinitely. some folks are confusing fiscal responsibility with the ideology approach to spending and taxes in particular. and in that i think that there is a fundamental de-link inlg,

and then the more absolute approach is from alleged fiscal conservatives today. >> what do you think will happen now particularly with the tea party element in the final days of some kind of debate over a debt ceiling? is there going to be a change in that group, or will they hold the line and is that good or bad? >> what is interesting to me right now is there is a dynamic present in the last 24 hours, and it has become present that i did not think would be an issue, and it's this. will obama have to go so far to the right in order to come up with a deal that boehner could sell to the republicans in the house? is he going to go so far to their side that he loses the democratic votes that would be necessary to put this thing over the edge. there is no circumstances in which obama makes a deal with boehner and every republican lines up for it, and if it means some of the stuff we have been hearing in the last 24 hours

about the deal that obama may or may not be deal with boehner, if that's accurate, i have a tough time seeing democrats lining up behind that. >> there is no question in all of this, though, the tea party has had a profound influence. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. we spoke to steve and john before the talks fell apart this evening. next, they are playing hardball in washington, and they are not pulling punches in the uk either. in a moment, we will bring you our very own play of the week. this woman definitely has game. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made. when i got my medicare card, i realized i needed an aarp... medicare supplement insurance card, too. medicare is one of the great things about turning 65,

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amid all the difficult news, we were hoping to bring you good news about the nfl lockout ending, but the standoff continues, so to fill the void we will bring you the hardest hit of the week anyway, and it comes fl a woman with a vengeance. >> it's the slap that is being hurt around the world. she put herself between murdoch and somebody with a cream pie. no longer it's the so-called

gold digger, but some are calling her "crouching wendi, hidden tiger wife." the ultimate asian tiger wife. rupert murdoch was singing his wife's praises last month, a tough woman. he gushed about meeting her, and falling in love with the woman nearly half his age and his efforts to convince her to marry him. >> i was in love with her and i asked her, and she said no. it took me a long time to persuade her. >> reporter: they married in 1999, after murdoch divorced his wife of 31 years. they now have two daughters, and