poisoned and partisan. you have to come up with a hybrid. in the end, you are going to lose the freshmen republicans and depending on votes of moderate democrats in the house and moderate republicans in the senate. >> all right. gloria, appreciate your time. we are out of time. stay with us, we are tracking the key vote on capitol hill. republicans say they will bring their plan to a vote. "in the arena" starts right now. good evening. i'm tom foreman and we are waiting and watching minute-to-minute right now for a crucial vote to begin in washington tonight. this is the battleground for republicans in the quest to head off what some fear could be a catastrophic budget default affecting all of us.

there are signs of deep trouble in the house of representatives. speaker john boehner is trying to rally enough votes for the debt crisis. his republicans in the red hold a substantial majority. at least 60 of their members shown here in yellow are affiliated with the tea party. they are pushing against a compromise with the democrats over here. they appear to have risen in revolt, once again. how many? we don't know. the speaker has to bring roughly two-thirds of them into his camp if he's going to outvote the democrats who are standing firmly united with his plan. it's a sign he doesn't have the numbers he needs, at least not yet. we'll cover the angles on this story, which is shaking the capital tonight along with other news, too. here is a look. if anybody kept his head and

integrity above the budget brew ha ha, it's alan simpson. he may be the last reasonable man standing. the president's poll numbers, they are ticking down. even if there's an 11th hour deal, is mr. obama headed to the point of no return? we kick it off in washington with the dramatic events on capitol hill. kate bald win is there tonight. what is your read? what is holding this up? >> reporter: it depends member-to-member. i'll tell you what we have been seeing since it became clear early this evening that they did not have the votes yet or they were working to secure the votes. the house republican leaders took to their offices and we started seeing member after member being called into their office. leaders speaking with them about their position. many of them that went into their offices were leaning no or

were firm no or leaning yes. it seems clear, what they want to know with 100% certainty they have the votes to pass the bill before they take back to the house floor to vote on it. while we are inching into later in the evening, we are still hearing from a spokeswoman from eric cantor, the majority leader. my colleague saying the vote will be tonight. they still seem confident they will get there. but they are still working on it at this late date. their members are very different on where the positions are. i have heard from conservative members. they are unhappy about the bill. they don't think it goes far enough. they want more dramatic cost-cutting measures. it's how they say washington spends their money, really. what i have also been hearing from members with a tone of frustration is they are coming out of the meetings saying if they know the bill is not going to pass in the senate, the senate majority leader says it's

dead on arrival, they are saying why am i voting it? why am i walking the plank? it's a fluent situation. they are continuing to try to twist arms and get the votes. they seem confident at this moment there will be a vote tonight. of course, it's changing on a dime. we are following it closely. >> how are the democrats doing in all of this? >> reporter: sitting back quietly and watching. they are very quiet for democratic officials and aids this evening. democrats seem if not unanimous opposition, near unanimous to the bill. they have made a strong effort to make sure all members oppose the bill and show there's no way this bill is going to pass with the help of democrats. late this evening, they have been quiet. >> all right. i know you are going to be standing by there. let us know the minute anything

develops. great reporting, thank you. if you have wondered why it's taking so long for the vote to get under way, it's because of likely my next guest and a handful of colleagues. he refused to vote for the plan. tim joins us live from washington. congressman, good evening. appreciate you joining us here. tell me right now, if you can, you are not voting for the plan, is that correct? >> no, sir. >> why not? >> not good enough. we have a very big problem. i appreciate the speaker's effort to try to get something through when you have a senate that won't have a debate, but we need a bill that solves the problem long term. i don't think it does enough. i'm optimistic we can still do a better job to solve our nation's problems. >> have you been called in by the leadership this afternoon? >> i have not been called in. i made it clear early on i think

we can do better. >> what are you hearing from the republicans? i think we need you to join with us. specifically, what are they saying? >> this is very important. this is the only thing that can happen. then we hear a word that may be tabled in the senate, again. my concern is with the senate that refuses to vote on any plan. the balanced budget amendment has to be done. when we hear about downgrades and defaults, my concern is a bill like this is not good enough to avoid a downgrade. >> is there anything that would satisfy you now? if the speaker said i need to know what you want, what do you want? >> i want a solution, not a deal. i want something that works long term. that's cut cap and balance. it's still is answer and the solution. we are in a huge debt crisis. we are in a huge overspending problem. we have to solve that. the first year of cuts,

depending on how you count it is less than the post office lost. >> you seem like a very reasonable guy. you know many people watched washington for a long time. what you want simply can't be accomplished. you don't have the votes for it. are you willing to walk away from the table with nothing rather than a compromise? >> there are no votes for anything now. we have leaders in the senate and the white house that refuse to allow the process to move forward. we have to have a solution. i wasn't sent here to do only what washington thought we could do. i was sent here to represent 700,000 people in kansas that want changes in how washington works. it's what they are looking for. i had to tell town hall this plan is not good enough. >> what do you do now at this point? you don't have the momentum to

get what you want. how does the stalemate get broken? >> we are working with senators and the key structure of reform that americans support by wide margins and push thag forward and trying to require harry reid to let them vote on a balanced budget. let them have the vote. let them get up and vote against what they said. we have enough votes in the senate. >> if you get to vote, whether or not you succeed with the vote, will that satisfy you? >> it won't satisfy me or our credit ratings. they want something long term. >> one more question, are you willing to let the federal government default whether in a few days or a couple weeks? are you willing to let it default or something has to be done before that? >> i believe something needs to be done and has to be done to avoid a default and a downgrade. it's hard for washington to do

big things. they are used to the status quo. >> i wish we had more time. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. i want to bring in congressman mack. he's voting against the boehner plan. good evening. what have you been hearing today? have people been twisting your arm? >> i haven't had my arm twisted. i made it clear to the leadership, for me, this is about balancing the budget. i have introduced a plan that would do just that by cutting 1% of spending a year for six years, capping spending at 18% of gdp. we balance the budget in eight years all by taking one penny out of every federal dollar. >> i have read over your plan. it's interesting, but it's not the thing being voted on tonight. is it a mistake they are not

talking to you saying is there a variation of this plan that could bring you on board? right now, the problem is nobody has a plan that can get approved. >> here is the problem. the problem is, we are $14 trillion in debt. we have a $1.4 trillion or $1.5 trillion deficit a year. the plan before us cuts $900 billion over ten years, roughly $90 billion a year. we continue to spend more than we bring in. after 10 years, we have a $20 trillion debt. i don't think anybody can look at those numbers and think it's a good idea. we are not changing anything in washington. the problem we are going to have is, when everybody is talking about our rating, our aaa rating, the problem is our debt to revenue is out of whack. all this is going to do and everything is senate is talking about is going to increase the debt to revenue.

we have 14, possibly $17 trillion in debt. if that was an individual, you couldn't get a credit card. >> a lot of people are saying you can't look at the calendar and look at where we are now and see wisdom in burning closer and closer to default. what do you think of that? >> i think the date of august 2nd was picked by the administration, treasury department, knowing it was the date before congress went on recess and they chose that date. i'm not saying -- wait, i'm not saying that we don't, something doesn't need to happen, but i'm saying this whole thing, we could have avoided this. we knew it was coming but everyone wanted the posture. we need to balance the budget. the american people are saying to the congress and to the president, balance the budget. do what we need to do at home.

everybody watching your show has had to take one penny out of every dollar of their own budget. why can't washington do the same thing? >> i understand that, congressman. you are absolutely right. it's the reason so many of you are in congress now. many americans feel that way. our polls also say that right now, at this time, whether the deadline is august 2nd or a couple weeks down the road, what the majority of americans are saying is make some kind of deal so the hole doesn't get deeper while we try to address this. what do you say to the people now? >> the deal on the table makes the hole deeper. you shouldn't expect people who believe we should balance is budget makes the hole deeper. >> are you ready to take it to the doorstep of default? how do you feel about this idea? do you believe default is a genuine threat at this hour?

>> some sort of default defined in one way or another is possible. i also believe the leaders in the congress need to start listening to what it is the rest of us are saying. we want to balance our budget. >> is there a chance your vote will change in the next few hours or next 24 hours? >> only if the bill changes. >> thanks so much for being with us. up next, how are the democrats in washington feeling tonight? they will be casting a vote as well. what will it mean? democratic chairwoman debbie schultz joins me when we come back. ♪ ♪ look at that car, well, it goes fast ♪ ♪ givin' my dad a heart attack ♪ [ friend ] that is so awesome. ♪ i love my car [ engine revving ]

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luckily though, ya know, i conceal this bad boy underneath my blanket just so i can get on e-trade and check my investment portfolio, research stocks, and set conditional orders. wait, why are you taking... oh, i see. hey max, would it kill you to throw a guy a warning bark? [ dog barks ] you know i wanted a bird. [ male announcer ] e-trade. investing unleashed. there's the clock that all of washington is watching tonight. an awful lot of us out of washington, too. the countdown to the debt limit. it is getting closer, closer, closer. we have been waiting all day to see if the republicans are going to vote on speaker boehner's debt plan. we have been told that a vote will still come. it's been delayed over and over

for hours now suggesting the speaker does not have the vote. now, that said, earlier today, the republicans had a presser where they wanted to make sure voters knew they at least had something on paper. take a listen. >> there are no gimmicks, there are no smoke screens. >> americans deserve an honest approach. no more tricks. no more accounting gimmicks. no more broken promises. >> mr. president, we still don't have your plan. mr. reid, we still don't have your plan. >> much more confident times. that was only a few hours ago. we are monitoring it minute by minute. what about the democrats? what do they have to offer now? what are they doing this evening? someone who knows, debbie wasserman shuts, congresswoman from florida. thank you for joining us. what is your reaction to what is going on with the republicans?

>> as i watch the train wreck that the republicans are engineering as we hurdle toward default, the word that comes to mind is irresponsible. i mean this is just not a responsible way to deal with addressing our deficit and making sure that we can strike a balance between getting a handle on our long term deficit and making sure the nation doesn't default on our obligations. that's what the republicans, i guess, don't grasp. i mean, tom, i'm as committed a democrat as they come. obviously, i'm the chair of the democratic national committee. one of the things i understand as a member of congress who was elected to represent constituents is that it can't be my way or the highway. the cuts we are going to have to vote for to reduce the deficit are painful. ones that democrats would not want to vote for as the president said.

but we understand that we have to compromise in order to make sure that we can continue to get our economy turned around, get a handle on the deficit, avoid default and make sure our credit rating doesn't go down. what the republicans don't understand is that compromise is an absolute necessity. it's shockingly irresponsible. at the end of the day, we need to sit down at the table, find a reasonable compromise that strikes a balance and pass a balanced plan that doesn't pile all the pain on seniors, children, middle class and working families. >> let me ask you a follow up question on this. >> sure. >> one of the things the republicans have been saying today and in recent days, the core lair of this is that the democrats, to their mind, are not leading, specifically president obama. they are saying he needs to come out and say what he wants in a plan and he won't do it.

how do you respond to that? >> it's simply not true. >> real numbers, written down. written down numbers. >> president obama offered plans, worked with speaker boehner. they were negotiating a full plan and then twice now, speaker boehner walked away from those negotiations where they were developing a plan, one that would have had balance and revenue as well as cuts. john boehner got cold feet. unfortunately, allowing the extremists in his party to control what happens, to jeopardize our economy, to hurdle us to default. it's time to let the extremists go and find some reasonable common ground in the middle and make sure we can come together and strike a balanced compromise. >> are you satisfied, then, with the president's leadership on

this? there have been democrats in recent months they are not satisfied. they feel like the president should, again, much more explicitly say what he wants the numbers next to it, not merely, i would like things to be better. >> i'm proud of the president's leadership. i think he's done an excellent job. he's clearly laid out in numbers and in prod terms exactly what should happen, we should make sure that when it comes to cuts we don't pile all the pain on groups of people who can least afford it on the middle class and working families. make sure we preserve education and look for cuts, significant cuts we would all prefer not to make but cut that is ensure we continue to educate our children, take care of seniors, make sure people remain healthy. at the same time, also ask

something of the wealthiest and most fortunate americans. it's something the republicans refuse to do. instead, they are insisting and scrounging for votes for a bill dead on arrival for the senate. the president said that he does not support. for what? to satisfy their extremists in their party. >> we have to go, but one last quick question. >> sure. >> do you think we'll have a deal? >> i hope so. democrats are ready to be at the table. we have been at the table ready to compromise. we need partners. right now they refuse to be there. >> how soon? >> we need them right away. right now. >> how soon do you think we'll have a deal? >> if you look and listen to your guests on the other side of the aisle, it doesn't appear it will be very soon. >> thanks for joining us this evening. >> thank you, tom. when we come back, looking for the same voice. boy, you can look a lot. you might not need to look any further than alan simpson.

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there is the clock counting down the hours until the debt limit is reached. there's the capital where republicans are counting votes to see if they can get enough support to pass the speaker of the house plan for dealing with the debt.

it does not look like they have the votes yet. we are told they will have a vote. we'll take you to it the moment it happens. people say d.c. is desperate for voices of reason tonight. many will tell you the most respected the former senator alan simpson of wyoming. he is a republican. he was chosen by president obama to head up the deficit reduction. their group recommended bold changes to entitlements, taxes. maybe someone might have listened. senator simpson joins us from wyoming. thanks for being here. >> sure, you bet. >> you said, and i quote, if there's anybody in america who wants to solve the son of a bitch, show me your sacred cow and shoot it. i have seen bruised cows, but none get shot, yet. >> it's sad.

i admire the woman, i was listening in the earlier part of the program. she went to the flash words, they are going to take care of the seniors, poor, vulnerable and veterans. who doesn't want to do that? come on. let's get off that kick. we said, look, if you don't do something to social security to make it solvent, we are not balancing it on the backs of seniors, we didn't steal the trust fund. do nothing and you will waddle up to the window and get a check for 23% less. if that's sensible, the drinks are on me. that's nuts. the defense department got fat. contractors between 1 million and 10 million. a health care plan for 2.2 million retirees. the premium is 470 bucks a year, no co-pay and takes care of all

the kids. let's get serious. let's quit saying the republicans are throwing bedpans out of hospice. this is nuts. the republicans are just as goofy saying getting rid of a tax earmark, getting rid of $6 billion in subsidy for ethanol, you have to be goofy to get that kind of math. >> how do you get people in washington talking this way? i know not everybody in washington thinks you are the sage in the mountains, i guess they don't think that of anyone. how do we get the voices to the forefront now? so many americans in the polls and everything else is saying this is what we need. we need to get the people beating on the talking points and demonizing off the table so a reasonable solution can be reached. >> i slipped out of the witness

protection program from time-to-time. all they have to do before they whine and bitch to me is read a report in english. it's not for pundits or pan dorers or journalists, it's for the american people. uses going broke, sharing the pain, sharing the load. we are all in this together. it was signed by five wonderful democrats including dick durbin and tomcoleburn. when you mention durbin or coleburn to people, they go crazy. five republicans, five democrats, one independent. 60% of the commission voted for it. all you have to do is read it. it hits everybody. don't give me the smoke about hurting the poor. we took care of social security. we gave the lowest 25% social

security. then you got veterans and defense contract. you can't do anything. the mess in the kitchen is medicare. i don't care if you call it obama care or elvis presley care, i don't care care. it's there. ryan comes up with a plan to do something about it, they crucify him. we put our plan in and if obama accepted it that day, they would have crucified him. everybody is waiting to be eaten by rats, snails and toads. >> let me ask you a question about this, when you put in the effort to be on a commission like this, you consider your thoughts, write them down, present them and in my experience, maybe most of the time the political powers who ask for it then promptly stick it on a back shelf and forget about it. how does that feel?

what do you think? >> it's sad. part of the proposals in the house is to have an appointed commission of people who are going to suggest recommendations in spending and revenue. have a drink. it's what we did. we spent a year and worked hard. every one of us bar fed when we signed our name because it hit everything. it hit things in my state. if you can't get rid of the tax expenditures and use the money to reduce the debt, then get a tax code that goes into three separate tax, 0 to 70 grand you pay a percent. over that, 14%, then 23%. reduce corporate rate from 26 to 36. it's all there. i say to people, bitch, moan, you ought to see the crap i get. read it then call me back and whine. i didn't know you meant that. good god. >> both sides keep saying, keep

saying, keep saying they are protecting the little guy. do you think anybody in washington is protecting the little guy? >> the saddest and terrible irony of all of this, terrible stuff, is that if we, even if the debt limit is extends and i hope and pray it will, even if we lose our credit rating and it gets dropped down, do you know who gets the worst when inflation goes up a little, all this, inflation and indexes pop up? the little guy is the one that gets hurt. it actually has a stench to it. the little guy is the guy that is going to get cremated. it's bs to listen to them talk about that person. >> senator, you dedicated your life to this kind of work. i wonder how you are feeling when you think of how millions of americans are sitting in rapid city and reno, places like

that looking at washington saying what on earth is wrong with those people? >> it's terrible that it's reached a single word. it's called disgust. absolute disgust. both parties are at blame. i can't believe how they can't get in a room together and talk. i can't believe that they don't believe compromise is not a dirty word. it doesn't mean you are a wimp. you can compromise. what in the world happened? i would go across the aisle and talk to tip o'neill. he had horsepower. he was good with me. i worked with kennedy. these people who say i don't talk to democrats or i don't talk to republicans, hell, it's why we are in trouble around the world. we give each other the ice treatment. it destroys marriages and relationships. senator, thanks for joining us tonight from the lovely town of cody, wyoming. i wish i was there with you.

appreciate your time. >> thank you very much. still ahead, we are told default means catastrophe. we have to take our medicine right. there's only one problem. the cure may be even worse than the disease. that and much more is still ahead as we watch the clock in washington to see if we get any closer to a deal tonight. [ mal] this is the network. a network of possibilities. excuse me? my grandfather was born in this village. [ automated voice speaks foreign language ] [ male announcer ] in here, everyone speaks the same language. ♪ in here, forklifts drive themselves. no, he doesn't have it. yeah, we'll look on that. [ male announcer ] in here, friends leave you messages written in the air. that's it right there. [ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. my old contacts would sometimes move and blur my vision. then my eye doctor told me about acuvue® oasys for astigmatism. he said it's the only lens of its kind designed to realign naturally with every blink

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there is is clock. there's the capital. republicans are counting votes tonight to see if they can keep the speaker of the house's plan. it has not looked good for hours. we'll see if they get around to a vote. despite the frantic calls in washington that the nation must not go into default and stop making payments on the money borrowed. some fear we are headed that way, especially with what we are seeing tonight. they say it will cause a spike in interest rates, making it hard for everyone to borrow money. forcing businesses to shed jobs and reignite iing it. aftershock, the next economy. he joins us from berkeley, california. thanks for being with us this

evening. do you think we are closer, closer, closer to a default tonight? >> it seems we are closer. there's not any agreement among democrats and republicans. harry reid put on the table a proposal we might call republican like. there are no tax increases at all. republicans are away from that. even speaker bone -- boehner doesn't like it. it doesn't look like they have enough votes. they go to a vote the moment they have enough votes. the fact they are not going to a vote suggests they are not there yet. >> you believe default would be as catastrophic as some fear? >> interest rates will trend upward. the dollar will continue to go down if the credit rating agencies, fitch and moodies and standard & poor's, if they say they are going to downgrade the treasury bill, actually, the

safest investment anybody has ever had in the world, if they downgrade the treasury bill because they are afraid of a default or think the fiscal house is not in order, then definitely all interest rates go up. the little guy is hurt. alan simpson is 6'5", i don't know what he's talking little guy. i'm under five feet, i know about little guys. if that should happen, everybody is going to be hurt. little guys hurt the most. >> let me ask you about the plans. if we get a deal, it's not like the world is fixed. it stops the immediate catastrophe in front of us. talk about housing. i want to bring up something. talking about having so many houses. 25% of home loans are now underwater in this country. if one of these deals is approved, the redeal or boehner deal, what happens to the

housing market? >> the housing market, what we are confronting now is an economic emergency. we are still particularly on the jobs front in the gravitational pull in the recession. if the deal out of congress mean that is the government is unable to spend anymore money, unemployment insurance, it cannot provide anymore jobs, it cannot expand in terms of really responding to the contraction that is going on among consumers and businesses. if government can't response, we are in worse trouble. hopefully, the deal that comes out is a deal over ten years. hopefully the economy begins to come out of the trough we are in and budget deficit reduction makes more sense. it makes no sense now. the real crisis now is not a budget crisis. today, the crisis is a jobs and housing crisis. >> if interest rates go up, that

makes it harder for people to buy. nothing to restore the value of houses. unemployment, is 9.2%. you think the unemployment rate maybe gets worse, certainly doesn't get better? >> i'm afraid, again, you have two things. that is a deficit reduction right now. pulling in the government's belt right now would mean a less capacity, fewer jobs, less ka patty of the government to generate jobs, fewer teachers, fewer firefighters, fewer government contractors. that might be okay in the future. right now, it would be disastrous. if interest rates surge, go up because there's no deal or the deal is a bad deal, that also is going to create a slowdown in the economy. that means everybody is going to have to pay more for mortgages,

credit card debt, auto debt. that means consumers are going to be less eager to go to the malls. >> let me read the last category. what about the markets? the dow dropped the last five days on investor fears. what do you think will happen with the markets if we move into one of these deals? will they say great, we have a deal, it will get better or this is not a good plan, we have to back off further. >> if there's a deal that goes through 2012, right through the election so we don't have to go through this awful exercise again, so we don't have to worry about raising the debt ceiling six months from now, the debt markets, international markets will breathe a sigh of relief and do better. if the deal is we have to do this again in six months, there's going to be a

continuous, agonizing process of partisan ship, are we going to raise or not raise the debt limit, markets are going to react. >> thanks so much for being with us this evening. >> thanks, tom. coming up, back live to washington with more on the breaking news story there. the stalled vote on the republican plan in the house. don't go away. [ female announcer ] sweet honey taste. 80 calories per serving. 40% daily value of fiber. i'm here in the downtown area where the crowd is growing. [ female announcer ] watching calories at breakfast never tasted this sweet... i'll go get my bowl. [ female announcer ] ...or this huge. new fiber one 80 calories. yes, you can actually love breakfast. but i did. they said i couldn't fight above my weight class.

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we are watching breaking news in washington tonight. the house still has not taken up spo speaker boehner's deal. what is president obama doing during all this drama? we have not heard from him today. jessica, what is going on there? >> reporter: a lot of waiting, like the rest of the town. the white house has been waiting for john boehner, speaker boehner to move on. they are hopeful a compromise can be reached between reid and mcconnell. a compromise they hope is something the president can sign and get through the house of representatives by tuesday. the longer it drags on in the house, the less likely it can be done by tuesday. there's frustration, anticipation and delay and waiting, like the rest of the town hoping speaker boehner can

get something done so everyone can move on. tom. >> i was asking debbie wasserman schultz earlier, the president has either not led or not led effectively. the talks kept breaking down. >> are they sensitive to that? certainly they find that claim galling. they would take issue with it. from their perspective, they would say that first vice president biden led the biden discussions where he tried to negotiate a deal. then the president was personally engaged in conversations. i could walk through this chapter. yes, they are highly sensitive to that. the point, you know, the counter point to that is others argue he could have taken a deal long ago. he could have taken it as part of the, i saw you had alan simpson on. >> he could have taken that

recommendation long ago. >> you can argue it both ways. americans blame both parties. if something catastrophic happens, the president owns the economy and politically, it's a big day on the president going into re-election. >> thank you for keeping track on the white house. we will check with you later on if we get to a vote on this. we have been talking about president obama keeping a low profile. it could be a risky strategy. his bid for re-election continues and the countdown clock ticks on. stay with us. ♪ ♪ you are my sunshine ♪ my only sunshine ♪ you makes me happy

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so why is the debt ceiling so impossible to fix? or is it? it is politics, faulty economics or all the above. thomas and jeffrey are joining us. you have both written terrific thoughts about this. what do you think right now is the fundmental problem in washington? is it the democrats, the republicans or the culture of washington? >> i think it's the insensitives that are facing the congressmen on both sides of the aisle. people running in nancy pelosi's district, they want to tax the rich. that makes sense for nancy

pelosi. john boehner has to get elected from different people. for him, it makes sense to say slash spending, slash spending, slash spending. it's not easy to see how they are going to compromise. >> nancy pelosi is an interesting case. i remember a time back indicating nancy pelosi is highly popular in her district when she was speaker of the house. she was not liked anywhere else in the country. she could not come close to winning any kind of national or statewide. in her district, hugely popular. >> i didn't know that. her district is san francisco, right? >> yeah. >> i would not emphasize the rationality factor here. there are all kind of funny thing that is happen in politics. a lot of times it's rational, other times, it isn't.

i wrote a book, the idea was to talk about working class conservatism. what is that? >> exactly. >> today, it's everywhere. on the surface, it doesn't make a lot of sense. my idea was to try to unravel it. i have problems with both of the parties. >> sure. >> i have a critique of what is the matter with both of these guys. the people you need to start with are the republicans. what's changed from two years ago or one year ago, they have a republican house. they had a landslide in 2010. there are two ways of looking at what's happening. remember a book that came out, "the shock doctrine"? >> sure. >> i have been watching your countdown clock. we are in an emergency. when ever there's a crisis, that's the time you drive home

the austerity measures. >> a lot of this is being driven by politics. here is something i saw that puzzled me. many, many people are saying the politics are driving it. republicans want to win. democrats want to win and the president is looking better than all of them. this is a pugh report the president's support in may, 48% against a republican. 37% then. today, 41% and 40%. it's wider when you get to the independents. is anyone going to win this thing? >> i blab too much. let me say two things. >> sure. >> the republican party as we know it today and to reference another book, "the wrecking crew," the title says it all. the republican party rules by destroying. they jam the wrench into the

works in washington. they mess things up. they throw the train into reverse. they leap out of a speeding locomotive. all these metaphors. something they figured out 20, 30 years ago. the late 1970s, when you make politics disgusting and turn people away from politics, why can't they get together and agree? when you make politics disgusting, it goes to the favor of the antiwashington party. >> talk to me about that. >> the issue is that both sides are stuck. both sides have to do what's going to work for their parties. i think saying it's more the republicans than the democrats is not fair. they are some distance apart. why is the fact that one is so -- the compromise in the middle. they are equally guilty of sticking to thing that is are not sustainable. why is it not working for obama