cities by war and starvation. there is no law, there is no order. power comes from a gun. the problem is, everyone in baidoa has a gun. that was me 20 years ago, in some ways, the situation is the same as it was then. we'll be back tomorrow at 8:00 eastern and again at 10:00. "john king usa" starts right now. good evening, up first tonight, major breaking international news. two administration sources telling me tonight the obama white house is now prepared to explicitly call for the syrian president bashar al assad to step down. the call for regime change the sources tell me is planned for later this week, after united nations security council meeting on the syrian crisis set for tomorrow. these administration sources say the call for assad to step down will be packaged with new treasury department financial sanctions designed to tighten the screws on president assad, his family, and syrian businesses with close ties to

the regime. human rights activists say at least 2,000 people have been killed in the regime's brutal crackdown on anti-government protesters over the past several months. as the crackdown has played out, the administration has gone from urging assad to stop the violence and implement reforms himself to of late saying the dictator has lost legitimacy, but until now the administration has stopped short from demanding he yield power. here's how the u.s. ambassador to the united nations described assad's behavior right here on this program last week as she promised to push for more aggressive international response -- >> it's horrific. it's appalling. he's massacring his own people who are coming out simply to express themselves peacefully. it's absolutely unacceptable, appalling behavior, and it deserves not only the condemnation but the full force of the international community. >> and today at the state department, this public hint, u.s. patience with assad had run out --

>> if you offer engagement and rather than taking up engagement your partner chooses to spend their time and energy repressing and violating the human rights of their own citizens, in any situation, there are limits to what the u.s. can do. >> let's get some perspective on tonight's breaking international news from cnn's fareed zakaria. how significant, i'm told by thursday morning the obama administration will finally explicitly say assad must go. how significant is that? >> well, it's taken them a long time to get there. some of us have been urging that they say it a while ago. i'm not quite sure why it had to be this meandering dance to what was an inevitable conclusion which was that it was impossible for the united states to support a hostile regime, an anti-american regime that had been brutally massacring its own people.

it wasn't ever clear to some of us why we were taking so long to do it when we were willing to say that mubarak had to leave and it was a pro-american regime that had been a friend of ours in the face of similar protests. now, i think what is significant is that it puts the screws even further on assad. but i think it doesn't -- it is not the beginning of the end. john, what we've realized about many of these regimes is they're real police states, really brutal, really tough, and they're tough to crack. sanctions didn't get rid of saddam hussein. sanctions and a no-fly zone so far have not gotten rid of moammar gadhafi and i doubt that sanctions will get rid of president assad in syria. >> when you look at the growinglition of outrage, you have now the united states saying he must go, you have tough words from leading arab nations including saudi arabia, but on the u.n. security council, russia and china still reluctant to get tough and assad has in his back pocket the biggest wild card which is iran, right?

>> precisely. and you put it exactly right, tough words. there's finally a lot more tough words, but tough words are not going to do very much. i think the president assad probably looks at this and says sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me. all that's happening are people are calling him a lot of names. the sanctions don't matter that much because syria is a pretty isolated economy. see, for sanctions to work, you need an economy that is deeply integrated into the international system. countries like iran, syria are not particularly integrated. syria needs some source of capital, and it has that in iran, but it's limited because mostly syria's a gang sister state. there's a lot of black market economy. there's a lot of smuggling, it gets a certain amount of its revenue and hard currency from iran, that's all it needs to survive certainly in the short run. >> some european nations still do energy business with syria. is it possible a tougher line

from the obama administration could bring tougher european sanctions as well? >> they could bring tougher european sanctions. you're right, there's a modest amount of energy business in syria, but the money all flows directly to the regime, and that might make a difference. but look at libya. we have an all-out civil war, we have a no-fly zone supporting the rebels, we have covert assistance being provided by france and other european countries, perhaps the united states. and still you don't have any signs that that regime is cracking. these guys have spent decades building up a structure of power that is entirely about regime preservation. while other regimes worry about raising standards of living and building infrastructure, these regimes are obsessed with staying in power. so, it's going to take a lot more than one more ratchet of a sanctions screw to get them out of power. >> let's continue the

conversation now with few fouad ajami, a senior fellow with stanford university's hoover institution and mohammed abdul loo. we've talked about it for weeks and why won't the administration do more? is this enough in your view to be at the point where they're going to have new financial sanctions and i'm told an explicit call for assad to step down? >> well, john, for me i think it's a very important moment for president obama, because president obama came into office in 2009 with the promise of engaging the regime both in damascus and in tehran, and i think we are not a country like other countries. we are the united states of america. and the people in syria look to us. they look to us for inspiration, they look to us for leadership, and they were terribly disappointed in the utterances and the statements and the policies of both president obama and secretary of state hillary clinton. we have now come to a very fundamental morally tenable position which is to call on the

butcher in damascus to quit. and this is not an idle moment, nor is it just any moment nor is it any country in the world doing this. >> and so, mohammed, fouad makes an important point. it's a morally important moment. will it be a politically important moment? the escalation of outrage whether it's the united states saying he's lost legitimacy, or he's violating ramadan, he's a killing machine, he has thumbed his nose so far at everything, why will this be enough? >> no, it's going to be very important, because as president obama is saying, yes, encourage more european leaders and international leaders to do so and same the same thing and that's going to encourage the major -- the silent majority in syria to protest more and that is going to encourage high ranking officials in the government to start defecting. unfortunately there's this idea in the syrians' minds that the americans did not say he has to step down, he has to stay. it's very important to listen and hear the word from president obama and encourage the protesters to fight more and

more. if i may give a comment why and fareed zakaria comments why the u.s. did not say he has to step down for a long time. we asked the question directly to secretary of state hillary clinton, she said, we don't want to recognize a revolution, but after five months of protesting along and with the huge and massive human rights problem, it's right to intervene. >> will it be the beginning of a domino effect? will a tougher line from the united states, a call for assad to step down, will it get the european nations, some of whom have energy business with syria, will it get them to stop and will it get the saudis and the arab league to go beyond calling a killing machine, but taking formal steps to do something with it?

>> john, this is all important, but i'm thinking of the syrian in the embattled city of hama at home thinking about the world. now, remember the syrians have been giving names to the fridays. there was one friday, your silence is killing us. another friday, god is with us. means only god is with them. i think it's important that they know they are not alone, that they don't live in solitude, that they don't live in isolation. that's the lesson from the great revolutions of 1989 which swept communism out of power. the message that the united states stands for liberty, that we don't believe the arguments about the balance of power, we don't believe that bashar assad is a force of civility in the region, that we've come to a fundamentally important political and strategic conclusion that this man has to go, that he's become a source o violence and instability. >> what do we know about his assets in the sense that in addition to this call for him to step down, i'm told that i'm going to read from a note that i received from a senior administration, treasury is prepared to announce additional sanctions targets syria's financial and commercial infrastructure that are providing critical support to the regime? we saw in the case of gadhafi billions in accounts frozen

businesses blacklisted, what does assad have in terms of money around the world. >> he has billions of them, he's 40 or 50 years his father and himself to get the government money and send it out of the country and to european and american banks and now we're glad to hear the government impose more, tougher sanctions because there are lawful businessmen that are financing the pro-government militias in syria and opposing oil and gas sanctions is an important step as 50% of the gdp is from oil and tourism, which is zero this year. and when we met with the canadian foreign minister, we told him about the canadian oil and gas company working in syria, he said it's not going to be a problem if the u.s. and europe started oil and gas sanctions. so we expected that and we are calling for that.

>> you've studied the butcher. you rightly call him the butcher and his friends very well over the years. what is the danger if a rabid animal is backed into a corner, that animal often lashes out? what is the danger that president assad seeing much of the world including now the united states saying he must go, what is the fear that he will strengthen his alliance with iran and strengthen his attacks on his own people? >> well, i think you ask a very important question and you raise a very important point, but, remember, this regime is a mafia regime. yes, it's a killer regime, but it is also a regime which is manned by people who have money abroad, who have interests abroad, they want to live, they want to enjoy it, they've had this incredible racket, not only in syria, john, but also in neighboring lebanon where, by the way, a lot of their money is. and now bashar assad looks at the region and the arab world is against him, and there have been interesting statements, by the way, from turkey, they are suggesting that there might be a turkish military intervention, a move inside syria to establish security zone where syrian

refugees can come without burdening turkey. i think as this man looks around him, his prospects are not terribly encouraging. one point the american ambassador went to the city of hama on july 8 and the city of hama received him heroically and he wasn't just any other ambassador, he was the american ambassador. and our message is to the syrian people is of tremendous consequence. because there are many people sitting on the fence and a statement from president obama will make all the difference. >> do you believe that, that a moral statement from the president of the united states, the direct call for assad to step down, will it change the dynamic on the ground? already we've seen in recent months, heroic, brave people risking their lives. will this intensify it? >> i do believe that. i think the silent majority are waiting to hear the statement and the high-ranking members of the government, we've witnessed that there is sign that the government or president assad kicked or fired the head of the army and he replaced him and that's another sign that the

armies are going to defect. and we're really waiting this magic word from president obama to go further on this. >> mohammed, fouad, appreciate your time coming in to discuss this with us. we're awaiting word from president obama to insist assad step down. a roller coaster day on wall street. on the one hand, smiles. it ended up. on the other hand, if you read the federal reserve statement that led to the rally in the end and you live on main street in america, there's a lot of sober news. [ female announcer ] what if your natural beauty could be flawless too? discover aveeno positively radiant tinted moisturizers with scientifically proven soy complex and natural minerals. give you sheer coverage instantly, then go on to even skin tone in four weeks. aveeno tinted moisturizers.

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another roller coaster day on wall street that even some of the so-called experts are finding it hard to explain. the dow was down more than 200 points at one juncture. then it rallied to even, then it dropped again after the federal reserve delivered a stay the course message promising to keep interest rates low, but the ride wasn't over. then came a furious final-hour rally and at the closing bell the dow was up just short of 430 points. if the markets belatedly found something in the new fed statement to like, i'm willing to bet if you read it over and over and over like i did today, you'd come away discouraged. the fed now forecasts even slower growth than it did just two months ago and it projects high unemployment, well, as long

as the eye can see. alison kosik was at the exchange all day and has a look behind the numbers tonight. are you dizzy? >> a little bit, yes, john. what's funny, this session was like a sea saw on top of a roller coaster. and a lot of that volatility came after the fed's decision. we talked to some traders, they say what you ended up seeing was a relief rally that the fed finally acknowledged that the economy is weak. but it's going to go ahead and continue to give the economy support for reinvestments from previous investments. do you know it also says it's going to go ahead and keep interest rates near zero for another two years, that's what really got stocks going today. the bad news, of course, the central bank sharply downgrading its view of the economy for the third time this year. it said growth is considerably

slower, but i don't think we needed the fed to tell us that, john. >> and on the point of the fed giving us specific dates through at least mid-2013 of keeping interest rates low, when they have the meetings they usually see for the foreseeable future. how unusual was it, you said it was reassuring for the fed to stretch out its target that far down the road? >> it is unusual for the fed to give a specific time frame, but do you know what, these are unusual times. what the fed essentially did was say the economy is going to be pretty weak for the next couple of years, so what it's doing is creating a situation where there's certainty for the really low, short-term interest rates for consumers and investors and businesses who want to borrow money, so at rates this low, it's kind of like free money, the thinking is the low rates can boost spending. it's really an effort that the fed is trying to make to rev up growth by taking the training wheels off and letting the economy at least try to do its thing and move forward, john. >> and i hesitate to ask the question given the volatility of recent days, but was it viewed as a one-day blip or was it viewed, you say the market was happy is the wrong word, but satisfied the fed has a more reasonable outlook on the lodge

term economic forecast. was it a blip or is it a building block? 1 >> i never try to predict the markets. i'll just say buckle up and get ready for tomorrow's opening bell. >> alison kosik on the markets for you, appreciate the insights tonight and glad you survived today's ride. >> yep. let's take a closer look now with neil kashkari. he's the former assistant the secretary for the treasury who oversaw the wall street bailout. and now he's a managing director at the pimco investment company. if you read the statement from the fed, it's hard, i'm an optimist and i read it and read it and read it and it's hard to find anything to be excited about. it says the economic growth so far this year has been considerably lower than the fed expected at its last meeting which was just two months ago. it says unemployment will remain quite high for quite some time to go, it says the downside risk to the economic outlook has increased. they're saying that things are much worse now than just a couple months ago, why? >> i think it is because the stimulative measures that are running their course and now concluding. we had the economic stimulus bill.

we had the home buyer tax credit. we had cash for clunkers. we had the federal reserve's quantitative easing program and they are running their course. >> and so if you look around the country, manufacturing data, unemployment, consumer confidence. now this very sober outlook from the fed, add in the downgrade of the u.s. credit rating which you say suggests the u.s. downgrade has the potential to be as bad or worse than the layman shock. that's a tough sentence to read, you lived through the days. do you see the possibility of a double-dip recession on the rise? >> it is definitely a possibility. i think the odds have really increased over the past couple months. the economic data has been so weak. it's not my base-case forecast, but it certainly is very possible. add to this the dysfunction in washington is a real problem. in a sense washington is telling the american economy, you're on your own. you cannot look to us for any leadership, neither republican

leadership, nor democratic leadership, nor the president. it's just going to be gridlock in washington, so markets, investors, americans, you're on your own. and that's why the markets are reacting the way that they are, and until we see real leadership out of washington, to try to tackle our spending, to try to tackle our tax code, i think we're going to see markets that continue to be nervous and continue to be volatile. >> you mentioned the nervous, volatile markets. the president spoke yesterday, they stayed quite nervous and volatile. the fed speaks today and they stay quite nervous and volatile. i want you to listen -- you mentioned the dysfunction in washington, there's a debate over what to do next. here's a bit of the president's view -- >> if congress fails to extend the payroll tax cut and the unemployment insurance benefits that i've called for, it could mean 1 million fewer jobs and half a percent less growth. this is something we can do immediately. something we can do as soon as congress gets back. >> in your view, are those steps more small-ball, short-term steps or are those steps that would get the economy back on a path to sustained long-term growth?

>> unfortunately that's more nibbling around the edges. you know, the president created a bipartisan fiscal commission a year and a half ago, simpson and bowles did very serious work, came up with a serious bipartisan package and then he ignored the proposal and then the congress ignored the proposal. if i were to offer the president my humble advice, i would say take the simpson-bowles proposal to congress and say pass it now, i'm ready to sign it. we need long-term, multistructural levels to get the economy to grow again and get reform of our spending and get ahold of our tax code. bold, long-term measures are needed, not one-year band-aids or one-year stimulus measures. we've tried it for a couple of years and it has not led to long-term economic growth. >> in your sense, what is the clock ticking towards, meaning when do the markets and the people need to know that washington is serious? they have the supercommittee that is supposed to report by thanksgiving, if that is a credible product, is that enough? does washington have to act faster?

>> i think if the supercommittee were to be as bold as the simpson/bowles proposal and come up with a bipartisan comprehensive grand bargain, i think that would be a shot of adrenaline for the markets and the economy and, then, that could lead to long-term economic growth. you know, our corporations have a lot of cash. they've become very profitable, big companies. they're holding back. they want to invest, but they're afraid. if washington could come together and show real bipartisan, structural leadership, i believe our businesses are ready to do their part, ready to invest, ready to create jobs and get our economy growing again. but the world, not just america, the world is screaming for american leadership. >> appreciate your help tonight. >> thank you, john. >> thank you. and as the president plots his next move on the economy it's worth noting he has a gif and a smaller economic team than at the beginning. dr. christina romer, she was with us last night, she was a top economic adviser, she's back in academia, and she was replaced by austan goolsbee, he left the white house recently and no replacement yet.

peter orszag was with the budget director at the beginning of the administration. he stepped down and was replaced by jack lew. and jared bernstein worked in the white house's economic advisory position, and ron bloom, he's the manufacturing czar to advise the president on manufacturing policy. the administration announced he was leaving his position today. at least as of now, no replacement announced. larry summers was a top white house economic adviser early on in the administration, he left as well. gene spurling who was a counselor to tim geithner, moving over to the white house. and you have jack liu, gene spurling and secretary geithner announced he'll stay through the presidential election, this is a smaller team than those there at the beginning of the administration. jack lew, a newcomer, as the president plans his next move on the economy. issue number one to you. when we come back, the president left washington today for dover, delaware, a very sober day for him as commander in chief and the country, the president traveling there to welcome home the remains of those 30 americans killed in the

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welcome back. if you're just joining us, here's the latest news you need to know right now. the senate majority leader harry reid made his appointments to the supercommittee that will

hash out deeper cuts to the u.s. deficit. the republican committee already complaining about senator murray's selection because she heads the campaign committee. two passengers on american airlines flight from miami to washington, d.c., ended up in charleston, south carolina, hospital this afternoon, the plane ran into severe turbulence and had to make an emergency landing. the los angeles city council today unanimously approved a plan to build a privately financed $1.2 billion stadium in an attempt to lure an nfl team to the city. north korea says at least ten people are dead and 2,400 acres of farmland damaged in the wake of a tropical storm that came ashore monday. turning now to a country reeling from famine, cnn's anderson cooper is in somalia's dangerous capital of mogadishu where thousands have died. he arrived in mogadishu today. give us a sense of the situation on the ground there. >> reporter: john, this is

probably one of the strangest cities in the world. i mean, there has been now 21 years of conflict in this city. there is not a street, there is not a building in this city that does not bear the mark of a bullet hole on all the walls. destroyed homes and buildings and nothing has been untouched by war. it's an extraordinary situation. somalis have come here to th war-torn city looking for aid and food, and they may be out of food supplies, food stocks, in about three weeks given the current level of donations, given the current level of international aid promised by countries around the world. that's an extremely serious situation because the drought here is expected to last not just three weeks but several more months, and famine is believed to be spreading in the south of somalia, where you have this group al shabaab, an extremist terrorist group according to the united states,

a group of militants still in control of the country, kicked out aid workers, have stopped allowing children to be vaccinated and inoculated so diseases like measles are killing little children here, tens of thousands of kids have already died. many more are likely to die in the coming days and weeks. it is an urgent situation. in mogadishu there has been some good news, john, al shabaab actually left mogadishu on friday. the fighters who have been here now since 2007 battling african union peacekeepers just picked up and left the city. they say it was a tactical retreat. they say they're going to come back and launch waves of suicide attacks. they've certainly done that before. there was a suicide attack last year close to the place where we're broadcasting from tonight. the situation in mogadishu, there is an opportunity for change here. but it is a very desperate situation, a very tenuous situation, we'll have a lot about it tonight on "360" at 8:00 p.m. eastern and 10:00. >> you mentions the bleak dire

situation now. you were there two decades ago. if you can, different times, maybe a different disaster, but give us a comparison. >> reporter: well, you know, i remember going out on patrol with u.s. forces, u.s. troops, who were patrolling the streets on foot in mogadishu. i remember that was part of "operation restore hope." it then became a hunt for black hawk down, more than 40 u.s. troops were killed overall in "operation restore hope." they did bring humanitarian aid, they opened up corridors for food to be delivered safely. but it did not end the way that the u.s. hoped. you have a situation with 9,000 african union peacekeepers fighting since 2007, not just doing peacekeeping but peace enforcing, they have especially in the last year taken the battle to al shabaab and today for the first time they took us to the marketplace that al shabaab has controlled for years. it's the first time the african union troops have been inside the market and it was

extraordinary to see them being able to get to areas that they have never been in before. they say this is a real opportunity if the international community responds right now to get some more african union peacekeeping troops in here to really stabilize the situation and perhaps -- perhaps -- give somalia a chance, but this is a country that has had chanced in the past, those opportunities have been missed. it is -- it is the most unusual city i have ever been in, john. it was unusual 20 years ago when it was reeling from two years of war. it is now been 21 years and it is just extraordinary to see what is left of this city. >> anderson cooper on the ground live in mogadishu, "ac 360" coming up at the top of the hour. then again at 10:00 p.m. in the east. anderson doing fabulous reporting. the president is back at the white house today after one of his most sober, somber duties as commander in chief, traveling to dover air force base in delaware to welcome home the remains of 30 americans -- 30 americans -- killed in the deadliest day in

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about an hour ago marine one brought president obama back to the white house after an emotional day at dover air force base where the president paid tribute to u.s. troops killed

over the weekend in afghanistan including the 30 who died when a u.s. helicopter was shot down saturday. no pictures were released, but we're told the president met with both planes that returned the dead and met with 200 of the victims' colleagues and the family members. leon panetta accompanied the president has been asked by commanders not to reveal the troops' names out of concerns their families could be in danger. with us now to discuss this john maguire who was a navy s.e.a.l. for ten years, and fran towns d townsend, who advised president bush. john, i want to start with you, because there are competing interests here. we should want to honor these heroes. and yet there are pressures from commanders to the defense secretary saying in 22 of these cases there are navy s.e.a.l.s, your comrades and colleagues, who covert units and could their families be at risk if the names are publicly disclosed?

what's your take on that? >> i think the commanders are absolutely right, you know, we do what we do, we're not looking for thank yous, you don't need to know a soldier's name to pray for a soldier, you don't need to know a soldier's name to say thank you. the problem is operational security, if you know their names you could put pieces together and then the men and women who serve have a threat at home or maybe their families. i think the operational commanders are absolutely right. >> fran, how do you deal with the competing interests in the sense that some of these families themselves, because they want us to know the stories of their loved ones, some of them do want to speak out, do they -- it's a tough one especially with this latest incident so raw. do they need to be counseled by the pentagon please be careful, it's your own safety you could be putting at risk? >> certainly, john, the pentagon has got a responsibility. commanders have a responsibility to advise the families of the risks. but then it really is their decision. you know, i really think, john, in many of these cases we've heard the heart-wrenching memorials from the family members and children and it's

part of the catharsis, it's part of the grieving process, and frankly the nation is so fascinated and so taken with the service and sacrifice of the special operations community, it's understandable that there are people who want to hear these details. but it's different coming from the families than it is from the government. it shouldn't come from the government. i also agree. i think the commanders are absolutely right. the government needs to keep the amount of information they put out there to a minimum. and leave it to the families to make personal decisions. >> do you believe that the government in the case of the bin laden raid, it was s.e.a.l. team 6 we talked about at the time, obviously this horrible tragedy in afghanistan, is the government by reflex too transparent, too open, too willing to disclose names, information, even acknowledging that these were navy s.e.a.l.s, for example, in afghanistan? >> in missions like this we don't like to acknowledge this unit or units like that. i think that we do know too much. i think they should know that we took care of a problem and that the united states will not stand for terrorism. >> and when -- take us inside

the culture a bit. this is a culture within a culture. some people may think they under the military culture but they might not understand the top secret, covert units who are asked to do the most secretive, the most sensitive, the most difficult missions. what were your communications back and forth with your own close friends and family members when you were serving for ten years about what you were doing? >> one of the things we are special operations forces, we can blend in in society, and when you know the name of our fallen, then it kind of hampers our ability to blend in, which puts our lives at threat. so, you know, only our buddies know, and we keep -- even our wives don't know where we're going to go, when we're going to be back for safety and security of our nation and our brothers. >> and so, fran, i know you think that too much has come out, both in the case of the bin laden raid and now this tragic incident over the weekend in afghanistan. if you're back in the government or if you're asked by your friends in the government, what needs to be changed, how do you specifically draw up a policy in a country that is designed to be open, transparent and as i said at the beginning i think all americans want to honor the

heroes, how do you rewrite the rules? >> look, this is the best example is, look, you don't deny that there's been a tragedy of this magnitude. you don't deny that the helicopter went down and the numbers of u.s. troops that were lost. but you don't need to identify the unit. you don't need to identify the mission that they were on. i mean, there are -- you can give enough information, john, that the public feels informed without giving the details that put other operators -- we're going to have other people who are going to be asked on immediate reaction forces and quick reaction forces and go into firefights to help other soldiers, and so what you don't want to do is give out too much information. i want to be clear, though, this is not me saying that we don't honor the fallen. we absolutely honor them. but every man and woman who puts a uniform on, whether they're in the special operations community who are asked to do very difficult things or whether they're in a regular unit or brigade serves and deserves both

our thanks and praise and the honor that americans are showering now on those we've lost. it's not about not honoring them, it's about doing it in a way that doesn't put other soldiers at risk. >> amen to that, appreciates your insights on this horrible tragedy. hopefully we'll learn lessons from it and amid the tragedy, a 10-year-old boy who contacted cnn to speak up for his father, one of the fallen soldiers. he's from the kansas city area, and he lost his father in that weekend crash in afghanistan. for days now, he's been watching tributes to the navy s.e.a.l.s who died. and braden nichols wanted to tell the world, don't forget about his dad. my father was one of the 30 u.s. soldiers killed in afghanistan yesterday with the s.e.a.l.s' rescue mission. my father was the pilot of the chinook. i've seen other pictures of the victims from the deadly mission. i wish you would include a picture of my father. he is the farthest one to the left and we'll show you that photo, sincerely, braydon nichols, 10 years old, kansas city, missouri. thank you for contributing and

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helping you to bounce back. ensure! nutrition in charge! personal pricing now on brakes. tell us what you want to pay. we do our best to make that work. deal! my money. my choice. my meineke. tonight for the fourth straight night there's rioting reported in great britain and tonight it has spread beyond london. trouble in manchester, liverpool. the pictures we're showing you here are from manchester. dan rivers in london which appears to be more relatively quiet. dan, what's the latest? >> reporter: yeah, john, it's a lot, lot quieter in london today. this is in sort of the hackney northeast london where things have calmed down a lot. the turkish community sort of around here have been out

protecting their own businesses to try and prevent a repeat of the kind of violence that we've seen. there have been some minor low-level clashes over in the east of the city, but really nothing that -- that compares at all to the stuff that's been going on over the last 24 hours. >> and, dan, talk of using rubber bullets, giving the police, the prime minister said he'll put 10,000 extra police on the streets. the talk of using rubber bullets. would that be unprecedented within england? >> reporter: that would be unprecedented on the mainland here. they've been used in northern ireland before, but never on the mainland here, and talk of sort of water cannons we're seeing discussed, some people have been calling for the army to be deployed. but, in fact, what's happened is that they've flooded the city with 16,000 police officers drawn from all over the country, and certainly here in london that seems to have worked. it kept a complete lid on the --

on the violence. the police we've seen firsthand complete zero tolerance approach, any sign of trouble, they've been on it immediately. and that seems to have calmed things down in the capital. but as you said, elsewhere, manchester particularly we're hearing this evening there has been further trouble and further incidents. >> dan rivers on the streets of london reporting live for us tonight. dan, thank you. for more now on the riots and the reasons for the unrest we're joined by the london bureau chief of "the new york times," john burzin, and things appear to be spreading on night three according to your reporting. tell us the latest. >> they are and they aren't. in london there are only minor flare-ups tonight, but there are much more considerable flare-ups in manchester, birmingham and liverpool, other major cities. so, it's something of a shell game going on here, because the cameron government has moved large numbers of police officers into london, 16,000 people out there, police out there tonight,

compared to 6,000 on monday night, and that appears to have had -- made a positive effect of tamping things down in london, but the situation looks fairly serious in the other cities. >> let's listen a bit to the prime minister. he cut short a vacation and he came home, and as you mentioned he put 10,000 more police on the streets. listen to these tough words. >> i have a clear message for the people that are responsible for the wrongdoing and criminality, you will feel the full force of the law. and if you are old enough to commit these crimes, you are old enough to face the punishment. >> tough words now. was he caught a bit flat footed being on vacation as this played out? >> he was. it's the second time in a month that's happened. he was very slow on the pickup as the murdoch newspaper phone hacking scandal developed.

he had to fly home on that occasion from leading an official business delegation to india. he was slow in doing that and returned to find that his only option was in effect to sign on the proposals that were put to him by the leader of the official opposition here. this occasion he didn't come home for two days, hesitated until it got out of hand and outside downing street on tuesday morning taking control and devowing that the government would take extremely tough action. so it's been a bad month for him. >> the spark was the shooting death of a 29-year-old black man. is it about more than that as this plays out? >> first, the shooting of the black man. the independent police complaints commission and independent regulatory body announced tonight that both shots fired in that killing came from a police pistol, there was at this time no evidence that the man shot.

though it seems pretty clear he was a gang member. and he did have a gun with him, that he did not fire. his weapon has not been fired. but what's interesting about this is that the reaction in the communities affected by this riot i rioting where it began. a dozen other communities across london, and the community leaders as well as politicians representing those areas. has been to condemn the violence outright. describing it as villainry, thugg thuggery, krcriminality, too mu to demand it's stopped. and so much of the criticism has been they failed to act robustly enough. >> thank you for your time. your changing opinions to the tea party is next.

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close with politics. the texas governor rick perry plans to get into the republican race. your opinion of the tea party is changing. the freedom works chairman, and the former republican house majority leader dick armey from texas and paul begala. two texans with us tonight. i want to start with this poll. the democrats don't like the tea party, that's no surprise.

when the s&p downgrade happened over the weekend this became the democrats refrain. >> this is essentially a tea party downgrade. >> i believe this is essentially the tea party downgrade. >> i believe they've been smoking some of that tea, not just drinking it. >> you've been instrumental in helping the tea party. favorable, 31%, in july 37%. unfavorable, 51%, 47% in july. increasingly negative view of the tea party. why is that? >> there's a constant drum beat wining about the tea party as if it were a political party. when people understand that this is a movement in america about the essential policy requirements of america, the activists understood what needed to be done, a serious large

change in spending in the direction of reduced spending or you will not avoid a downgrade, that was validated by the action that was taken by s&p and by the whole investment community including the imf. that's warning america, if you don't find some way in which you can reduce this government spending and get not only the size of your government under control but your ability to manage your dealt under control, you're headed for serious trouble. so the fact of the matter is, yes, these activists understand a hard and difficult truth. and they're out there fighting for the right solution to it. for those folks that want to live on easy street with other people's money, it's not a very popular movement. sometimes you just have to be tough to straighten things out when a mess has been made. >> you have a different view? >> i do. i do.

dick, you called the participation in medicare tyranny. they want to end medicare as we know it. they want to turn wall street -- put wall street in charge of social security. how would that have worked out this week, for example. they support a radical agenda that's had enormous damage to the country now to the republican brand. that's what we're seeing in the poll. people know what the tea party stands for. they don't like it. >> spend more time on the tea party in the future and later in the week. first to you, mr. armey, your governor rick perry is about to jump into the republican race for president. is he the savior many republicans want or is he fred thompson that gets in with all of the hullabaloo and fizzles? >> bless paul begala's heart. he continues to be wholly misguided and uninformed about what goes on in the world. the fact of the matter, we in texas -- paul you must agree with that, we're proud of our economy. how jobs are created. we see the governor as been a man of powerful conviction,