from the gun. the problem is everyone has a gun. >> 20 years later, still much remains the same. we'll be here tomorrow night as well from mogadishu. thanks for joining us. that does it for 360. piers morgan tonight starts now. tonight, roaring back, stocks soar 400 points. are we out of the woods? what it means for you and your money. also barney frank and what he said is really to blame for america's downgrade and the union of american business. t boone pickens where america goes from here. how bad is all of this for president obama. started to hear the white house in the kennedy years. dan rather. ever seen washington or wall street like this? and anarchy in the uk, what's behind the days and nights of rage in london and other uk cities. where will it end? this is piers morgan tonight.

good evening on a busy news day around the world, thousands of police on the streets of london and other uk cities are getting the upper hand on the fourth night of the scene. wild gyrations ending with the dow up, that's right. up nearly 4%. what it means for your money is legal ger, personal finance expert juan ulreich. a crazy day in the market. heading for another day of the dow falling. the rally in the end end up 400 points plus up. what do you make of it all? >> the fans shl markets were trying to figure out what the fed said. to distill it down, the financial markets figured out

that ben bernanke with a bit of resistance was going to stand by the statement that the g-7 said and that was to do anything it could to shore up the economy and provide liquidity on the face of what happened in the last weeks. the economy is weaker than what they thought it was. the debt ceiling crisis dealt a blow. and the downgrade to the s&p. >> all of that with the u.s. economy almost stalled out. the fed said we're not going to let that happen. the financial markets at the end of the day once they read through it all, believed it. >> you had me curious. watching the whole thing unfold, the immediate reaction is negative. you're saying they waited to grasp what ben bernanke was saying and realized it may not be bad news. i think there was a bit of a shock of how much the fed acknowledged that the economy was weak by saying in an unprecedented statement that

they would keep interest rates at their zero target on the fed funds rate until mid 2013. they put a date on it. that's not done by the federal reserve. there were some members who dissented on that. we're all a little fatigued by the dissent and the debate in washington. some people weren't sure, does this mean more indecision. but frankly ben bernanke has a good record of corralling the cats within their own corral. even when they're mountain lions. he gets them to go where he wants them to go. that's important. we could do things with the balance sheet. we're not out of bullets yet. when all was said and done and they digested the massive amount of news, they said maybe we won't have a recession now. the bad news is we'll sputter along and also the good news. >> do you agree with this? are we now avoiding the double dip recession? has the fed run to the rescue? ben bernanke, the hero of the hour?

>> as interesting is what bernanke said today is what he didn't say is that the fed was widely expected or hoped by the portion of the market that he would do another round of bond buying or intervention. that's sort of the salvation from above that the market was hoping for. that didn't happen. on the other hand, the fed came out as diane said, a clear same, for the first time, put a target date on how long it will keep interest rates, the target rate towards zero. that led to a kind of collective sigh of relief. we know we can expect interest rates for the foreseeable future. the fact that the fed didn't do the massive intervention maybe led people to think, okay, maybe it's no it that bad.

that's sort of the last thing that it could have done. and wages have to be falling really fast and prices have to be falling significantly for the fed to go and do that again. it didn't, maybe things could be worse. the market took that as a sigh of relief. >> where are we in reality? where are we? >> for those who are saying be calm, carry on through all of this, feel a little bit of i told you so today. here's the thing. markets do what markets do, which is go up and down. for regular american consumers, for folks who invest in 401(k)s, this is not the time to panic. but there's a real crisis of confidence here. the american consumer is not where they should be or where

they want to be right now. and they've taken all of this mess really to heart and they're saying we are not confident this economy is going to get better any time soon. that's dangerous. consumer spending is 70% of the american economy and consumer confidence and consumer spending do a dance together. hen one dips, the other goes down, and that's what's going to happen. that means less growth in the economy. corporations are not going to be hiring. that means that job numbers are not going to improve. until job numbers improve, the american people are not going to feel better and feel confident in this economy? >> where should the average american put their money now. starring with you. where should an american put their money right now? >> i'm not an advisor, an investment advisor. i bet long on the u.s. economy and u.s. equities, so i'm long in the stock market. we're seeing the opportunities in the stock market to do a double dip. when they dip, they do allow us to double down. >> that wasn't ten words.

>> which kinds of stock? you've used way past your limit but what kind of stocks quickly? >> i'm bullish on exports and multinationals, manufacturers and that sector. >> can we try the ten-word rule with you? >> i'm an editor. it might work. this is already seven. if you pull out, you have to pull it out right and you have to be right when you put your money back in. equities are still a long-term thing. you have to think for the long term though, you have to. >> i would be tempted to shove it in a bag under my mattress at the moment. are you heading that way? is gold an option? are you still sticking to treasury bonds? where are you going? >> folks start talking about

mattresses, it's a bargain sale going on and you should buy more. consider time frame, know where your money is, and calm your stomach. >> you did that in ten words. >> i'm a former editor too. >> barney frank says that it's time for president obama to face up to liberals in budget cuts. what did you make of a fed statement today? >> it's appropriate. mr. bernanke and his colleagues are doing the right thing to the extent they can offset the opportunities. it's interesting that ben bernanke, a george push appointee originally warned congress not to do too much cutting in the short term. he said we've got a longer term deficit problems. he said in the short term, the cuts you're talking about are head winds against the economy.

he's doing everything he can. but we need to do now something on the fiscal front. it's now overwhelming, borrow from your country's history. the late 40s, prime minutester, he called harry truman and said, look, i'm facing a terrible economic crisis postwar. i cannot continue the inter international efforts to maintain the british remnants of empire. if you want to do it, fine. the time has come to recognize the crisis, withdraw from iraq, afghanistan, tell our good friends in europe that the cold war is long since over. they're well able to defend themselves. it's time to substantially reduce the worldwide military commitment, put some of that to deficit reduction. but save some immediately. to help save local governments to get some of the employment they lost.

the notion that they've come in the situation, and the same time the president talked about taying in iraq longer than bush wanted, it appalls me. the time has come. people say, you have to get real. you have to understand the cop strains. we can cut $200 billion a year on the military expenditures that go not for our own security but for our worldwide policemen. the wealthy allies spent far less as a percentage of that product that we do on the military. the time has come for us to recognize that we can't afford to do that and we'll suffer no loss in security. an interesting point is the trouble being the world's policemen as america has been for the 50, 60 years, it's a lonely place and you end up as america found itself now getting hardly any credit from anybody. if the expenditure you're laying out is so fast, there's a good argument to say, you know what? as the chinese do, for example,

look out for number one here and bring it all back to america. >> south korea needs help against that nuclear-armed lunatic. israel is in a difficult situation they never asked us for troops. western europe -- when harry truman went to western europe, the countries there were poor, they were devastated by world war ii, they faced stalin. the was a good thing to go in. but we're still protecting western europe from i don't know what and they are well able to do it themselves. we're building -- i guess because of cold war hangovers a missile defense system in poland and in the czech republic nobody needs. as you said, you wind up worse off politically. i'm not talking about america being anything less than the strongest nation in the world. pu the world doesn't need a policeman as much as we do. it's a hard thing to do. begin with iraq and afghanistan. we accomplished whatever purpose we could have had with osama bin laden.

we never should have been in iraq. the pentagon budget is $700 billion a year. medicare, which people want to blame unfairly for the crisis costs $580 billion a year. we can with no loss in our own security scale back. you can say on one hand america has to recognize constraints and act as if it's still 1960 and we can spend whatever we want when ever we want all over the world. >> the devil's advocate position is if you look at afghanistan, the reason they were able to ferment the situation there is because no one was there keeping an eye on it. the counterargument is there are lots of places in the world that were unstable where if america reduced any presence, you could see that situation recurring. that would provide a -- an attack to the homeland security in the homeland. >> if we shut down afghanistan, they're in yemen.

if you shut down yemen, they're in somalia or sudan. we can't plug every rat hole in the world. we did a significant amount against al qaeda. a major battle now is with the taliban. george bush became president. the taliban was running afghanistan. they were destroying buddhist statues, mistreating people. they were outrageous. but america can't solve every wrong in the world. if we did, we would shoot mugabi, a terrible abuser of people and others. in terms of national security, we dealt with oh sama, if you look at the $120 billion we're spending in afghanistan, plus the billions i think we're wasting and the pakistanis who are playing a great double game, small percentage of that back home would make us more secure than what's happening in afghanistan. >> congressman frank, thank you very much. >> thank you, piers. the world gyrations are a problem, not just in this country but around the world.

joining me now is james fouler. he surprised me. he said china may be on america's side in all of this. interesting position you're taking. if you listen to donald trump, he foams at the mouth at the mere mention of china. he believes they're an enemy to the national interest. why do you believe he may be a friend? >> the media crisis, the financial crisis going on now despite all of the bombasts coming from the chinese side how america needs to pull up the socks and behave better, fundamentally, their interests are the same as ours at the moment. the two big threats to the chinese economy are number one, they won't be able to sell things to a largely american market. so the recession would hurt them.

second, the extensive holdings in the u.s. treasuries and u.s. dollars will be at risk. so for the time being, the interests are avoiding recession and having a calm return to u.s., u.s. economy and financial markets. >> secretary geithner spoke to vice premier wang today. how do you think it sfwhent. >> the editorials in the state papers for the last couple of days have been strong on the finger pointing at the u.s. for all of its bad behavior. we imagine the two financiers got past that. the main concern on the chinese side would be what the u.s. was planning to do. what weapons were still in the financial arsenal to calm things down. in the u.s. and world markets and avoid the onset of a recession. the thing that the chinese fear the most is the same thing the obama administration and most americans fear is a plunge back to greater unemployment and slowing economic activity. that's the threat to them as well. >> is it healthy or unhealthy

that china holds so much of the american debt right now. >> it's a compared to what question. it's fundamentally for both economies and they're distorted with one another to the degree they have been. especially the last ten. china has depended on the u.s. market to provide demand for their own factories, all of the peasants going to the cities and having manufacturing jobs. at the same way the americans have pretended having the low-cost goods from the suppliers. the chinese surplus lent here to keep our tax rates down and keep our mortgage rates down. in the long run, it's not wholesome for either country and going to be uncomfortable on the process. less reliance on borrowing, less reloins on overexporting there. >> i worked in america and china. it seems to me the fundamental business practice difference is bureaucracy.

things in china get done quickly without the mown tape of red tape. everything in america seems consumed. is it time for america incorporated to revisit this whole area, do you think? >> aspects of china's performance is more or less impressive while you're there. the beijing olympics or the high speed rail project that's a double edge situation that the chinese can get done with great speed. the recent tragedies in the high-speed rail projects, the fatal crash and the evidence of corruption suggests that the chinese approach has its problems too. there's a huge overhang of the white elephant projects that kept the demand going up in a short run. but you go to the remote cities, there are giant airports, giant

shopping malls and everything. it can be romanticized from the -- out of our frustration with the bureaucracies in the u.s. >> thank you very much. >> my pleasure, thank you. >> london calling 16,000 police on the streets. can they restore order? the eagle flies at dawn. the monkey eats custard. price-line ne-go-ti-a-tor. so, you've been double crossed by other travel sites and now you want to try the real deal. yes, is it true that name your own price... ...got even easier? affirmative. we'll show you other people's winning hotel bids. so i'll know how much to bid... ...and save up to 60% i'm in i know the lady in leather travels on three wheels. wait, is that code? that's my secret weapon... ...naomi pryce see winning hotel bids now at priceline.

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seriously putting people's lives at risk. >> i can't believe this is happening. >> you know, i'm going to give out some extreme views, but i think they should bring the army down, show these people what real guns and real bullets are all about. this has got nothing to do with anything that happened last week. this is opportunists that are breaking in to shops and taking what they can. they're doing what they do best and that's thieving. >> 16,000 police on the streets of london tonight, more than twice as many as last night. will that be enough to stop the riots, looting, and general mayhem. not just there, but other british cities. dan rivers there for us now.

what's the latest from london tonight? >> all over east london. i don't know if there's another area down there. they've flooded this town, 16,000 across the city. the minute there's been a slightest inclination, they've come down like a ton of bricks, back chat back here, they're taken to the vans. a lot of stop and search going on as well. it's different to the terrible scenes last night 24 hours ago in london when there were buildings burning out of control. we were down and felt threatened down there as things got volatile indeed. >> the catalyst was the shooting of a young black man in north london.

interestingly, they withdrew the initial claim that they opened fire on them. the early findings say that this guy had a loaded firearm when he was shot. what was your understanding of where they are in that investigation? >> they still haven't gotten a complete picture of the icc. we know that the guy mark duggan supposedly had a firearm on him. it wasn't discharged. the police fired two shots. he was hit in the chest and in the arm. beyond that, we haven't gotten a particularly clear picture at all. so, you know, that -- that was obviously the spark, piers, in all of this. but this snowballed way beyond that particular incident to be something much, much bigger. reports right now of disturbances up in manchester, birmingham, bristol was affected. it was bigger and not something that's different people that got involved in this. not from one particular area of london. one particular city.

quite ride range of ages as a matter of fact. a lot of them, you have a white face, a black face. i don't think it's a race thing at all. >> law abiding people saying these are a bunch out of control seizing this incident to try to create mayhem. is it something deeper? is it a social malaise that's created an underclass of kids who feel they have no education, no hope of getting a job. and this is the tinderbox, if you like, being lit to a deeper problem? >> i think that's fair. firstly and frankly, yes, there's been massive amounts of opportunistic of copy cat crime

of people going, well, if they're doing this, up in totting ham, we can do this as well. now they're saying they're doing it in peckham, we'll do it as well. a lot of people are taking the opportunity saying the police have their hands tied there. they can't do anything. they realize they can't do anything. and therefore going to help themselves in a free tv from a local store. underneath that, people feel there's no jobs, no opportunities, they've been failed by the school system by society at large. and they feel it's their chance to frankly let off a bit of steam. dan rivers, thank you very much. market turmoil battles with congress. a bad time to be president of the unite. two men who know the white house better than most. how is president obama doing?

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president obama in a solemn moment today with the returns of 30 american troops who returned from afghanistan. a tough time all around. two men who have seen the white house up close. dan rather, and anchor and manager of dan rather reports. dan rather remembers as on hd net on september 11. the story, douglas brinkley. let me start with you, a dismal time for america and for americans right now to put it in historical context. more you reported on over the years. how bad do you think it is right now? >> the news is grim on a lot of fronts, the economy being first and foremost i would say within those jobs. this country has tremendous

resilience. people are angry. they don't feel they're being well led by republicans or democrats. democrats. through everything through valley forge, through the civil war, to the resignation of president nixon, america bounces back. it may be the world has overestimated the united states with the military and economic power since the end of world war ii. it might not be such a bad thing they're starting to underestimate us. we'll be back strong and bold. but people are absolutely angry if you saw the poll today, i've never seen a poll like that. not that i'm a great believer of polls. but 59% of those poll ed ed indicate indicated they were dissatisfied with the republican party. 49% of them said they're dissatisfied with their local congressman. that hasn't happened in my lifetime.

>> a great master plan. truman had the marshall plan. jfk took america to the moon. what is the obama master plan? do you see a sign of what it could be, which will rejuvenate america and americans? >> we're going to dub this something, i would call it generation downsize. the companies are downsizing. universities are downsizing. and president obama happens to be in the white house when he had to downsize. it's hard to get people enthralled with cuts. young people aren't coming in buss to the obama library some day, the presidential library to see the pen where he slashed some government programs. so he -- the bigger question is what does obama stand for? most people thought he was a continuum of progressivism. he's having a summer of malaise right now. and i believe the president has to turn it around as dan said,

jobs this fall. the trim line of 9% is unacceptable for the president looking for re-election. he's positioned himself pretty well as saying vote for me because behind me are crazy crazies. but that's hardly a position you want to be on running -- you want to be optimistic and for something. he's going to have to present a big jobs plan this fall to show he's taking this unemployment issue seriously. >> in terms of the jobs, everyone agrees needs to be done, what would you say, doug brinkley, should be at the basis of any such plan? how do you get americans back to work? >> you have to put a plan, fight congress on it. on what people see as the smart

grid. why does china have a great transit system and we don't? can you link seattle to los angeles with a train system and put people to work. do we close bases in se germany? we've won the cold war. do we need nato american bases in germany? and perhaps build basis for security here at home in twenty palms california, for example. can we take lands and do solar farms? this comes from the president. he has kept the base at bay. there's deflation. and without the visionary great american future rollout of jobs, his presidency could be in parl.

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big year next year. what are obama's chances right now do you think?

>> i think the chances right now are 50-50 at best. what you know, overnight is a long time in politics. it's an election that's well over a year away. clearly at this moment, mitt romney is the lead and most likely candidate, though i would not underestimate michelle bachmann think no way, i'm not in that category. so much depends on who the republicans put up. i come back to it. whether the unemployment line or not. he has to convince the american people he understands it's not a deficit issue here. not a ceiling on the debt. it's jobs. he's thinking about jobs, jobs, jobs, he's got a chance to be

re-elected. >> doug brinkley, do you agree 50/50 at best for the president to be re-elected. >> 50/50. i would go a little different than dan. i think he's got better odds than that. i think rick perry is the heavyweight for the republican party right now. but the president is not running against romney or perry. he' going to be running against the economy. and it all matters next year at this time if we reconvened, are we better off than we were at this point? is unemployment down to eight point, not nine point? but the president has an advantage to the mountdown this summer that it happened now, not next summer. it gives him a year to show he's doing things with the economy. we're talking about winding down the wars in afghanistan and iraq. what can he do as president with china? can we get some of our debt with

china forgiven if we -- if they accept inflated dollars. the democrats are unified and the republicans have a split. it's not hard to see with this new commission getting, you know, a tea party person like tancredo. getting a third party that would destroy the republican party. you don't have a breakaway. you don't have what jimmy carter faced in 1980, ted kennedy. if he can keep his base together, which i believe he will, i think his chances for re-election look good. >> it's a decade on from the terrible day. it's been dramatically affected by the event osf that day.

do you think america ten years on is a better or worse place? >> it's ten years. i think we're better off in that we understand now in the shadow of 9/11 still in the shadow of 9/11 that we're not invulnerable. i think we are better off than we were before. more realistic if you want to call it that pragmatic, foreign policy, military policy, almost all other policies. in terms of the economy, we're not as well as we were. wars in afghanistan and iraq being obvious ones. it's mixed. but i will say that we're different today, a lot different than we were in -- on september

11. that hawthorne in the early stages of our country wrote, he said, you know, a time passes over us, flies over us. but the shadows remain. for the president in the foreseeable future, we live in the shadow of what happens that clear and terrible day. >> we do. dan rather, doug brinkley. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, legendary texas oil man t. boone pickens. what would he do to keep america great? my name is marjorie reyes. i'm a chief warrant officer. i love the fact that quicken loans provides va loans. quicken loans understood all the details

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t. boone pickens made his fortune in the oil business.

i don't think anyone would consider him unfred friendly to drilling was right when he said this is one emergency we can't drill our way out of. >> president obama giving a shoutout to my guest in march. t. boone pickens says the man is thankful for the tea party and says the trouble in washington is a lack of leadership. boone pickens joins me now. you like being called j.r. ewing through or not. but needs a little bit of j.r. action. >> we need action. no question. if i was asked my opinion by the white house i would say get on your own resources. we have resources in america. and every day, we're spending a million, 200 million for foreign oil. totally unnecessary. getting on their own resources. get off of foreign oil, creates a tremendous amount of jobs. it would be good. >> but you have an interest in that. you have a company that's the alternative to oil, many would say.

do you feel slightly compromised when you stand up for something that would help your business like that? >> when you say i'm in the business. i'm i got out of school since 1951. i've been in the oil and gas business. actually, the business i'm in would be clean energy fuels and clean energy fuels does better with a low price for natural gas. not a high price. i'm not a natural gas producer, i have very little natural gas. i do. i'm in a stockholder in clean energy fuels. >> i'm fascinated by you, you build a billion dollar business by having big ideas and taking big decisions. >> when you look at america incorporated as a business, what are the big decisions you think need to be taken, put aside energy for a moment. how should president obama get this great country back being great again?

>> well, i was disappointed in congress when they struggled to make a decision and finally came up -- they had been told by s&p that 4 trillion, it was going to take a $4 trillion cut in spending, they kept them up with a kind of a questionable one trillion and i don't think anybody should be surprised. we should have cut spending more is what we should have done. that is absolutely necessary. and so here we are. they came up with a trillion dollar cut in spending, left for vacation, which i thought was unusual. i would have hung around to see what the results were going to be, and how the market interpreted that. and the market didn't like it, now you're down 500 points in two days on the market and they're on vacation. i don't know, i think that --

what would i do? well, the first thing, you say, well, let's get some jobs out of this. i'm not -- the jobs are not created by the government, the jobs are created by industries in america. and so you need to pull away some of the regulations on them, let them get to work. for instance, in the gulf of mexico, get back to drilling in the gulf of mexico. and there's just so many things we could do, but put it on the private sector, the government doesn't need to develop jobs. those jobs are not our best jobs anyway. >> we're going to take a break, when we come back, we'll talk to you about china. whether you see it as america's friend or foe. my guest t. boone pickens. what do you make of china? donald trump says he's the

my guest t. boone pickens. what do you make of china? donald trump says he's the enemy. other guests are saying they're potential friends. where do you sit? >> i think they're a competitor. enemy? i don't think so.

but, you know, we have the most developed military any place in the world. we have 12 aircraft carriers, there's not another aircraft carrier in the world, but the chinese are building a state of the art aircraft carrier. what am i saying? i think that we -- we're not -- we don't look like -- we don't have the same structure as any other country. and i don't understand, we could get our people out of the mideast. i don't like all of our military in europe, for instance. 50,000 people. i think we come home and start to look at our overall picture more clearly and decide how we're going to spend our money. because we have got to cut down on the $14 trillion in debt. now, that is not going to work, and we've had an early warning

from the s&p on that. and i think everybody understands we have to cut spending. here the most subsidized resource in america is foreign oil. and so we don't have to do that, because we have resources in america to use. we have plenty of oil, we have plenty of natural gas. we can go for the real -- more expensive, but we need to start to get into the development of wind and solar. not a large part of our spending, but we should start to move in the direction of those renewable fuels. there's so much we could do here and bring our people back home. i really, the afghan war just breaks my heart to see people killed there every day. and i do not understand what we're going to get out of that war. i know we don't ever win. i don't think we ever win.

and so why are we there? why do we get 30 people killed over the weekend? i just don't like it. >> finally, who do you have in your eye to be the republican candidate that may take on president obama in the election next year? >> i don't know. i mean, our governor from texas, rick perry is going to announce in the next few days. and -- but, you know, i know all those people and friends with all of them, but i -- you know, you'd have to say, i don't know michele bachmann. i don't know her. i know sarah palin, i know jon huntsman. i know all those men and women, they'll come up with somebody. i think from my standpoint, the reading i do, and all. it's probably going to come down to mitt romney and rick perry.