hello, everybody. i am randi kaye. victory comes when moammar gadhafi is captured. by that standard, there is no victory yet. it's closer this hour than any other time in the last six years. rebels hold most of tripoli. and a celebration today in green square, which the rebels renamed martyr's square, turned into a fire fight with the loyalists.

green square is right on the coast there. gadhafi's compound, a few miles away has taken a pounding from nato air strikes. today is the scene of ferocious gun battles. for now it's still in the regime control. and as for the libyan dictator, he may still inbound hiding or on the run, but three of his sons are in custody. and that included the man on the left, and he is wanted for crimes against humanity, just like his father. and then rebels also captured this woman, a well-known anchor on state tv, and witnesses say she is unharmed and state tv has gone dark. and then sara sidner has spenlt the day on the streets in the capital. what is happening there now? >> reporter: i wanted to go back to what you talked about, the last bit you talked about, the woman who was a news anchor on tv. everybody knew her and she

worked for libya state tv. we were there just after she had been detained. they said that she was detained with her brother. it was peaceful. we wanted to see her to see how she was being treated. she did not want to see the media. but there was a tussle, because people wanted to get at her. people were angry with her after she pulled out the pistol, in such support of gadhafi, and they want the rebels to see kicked out of the country or killed. we had to take shelter inside the building where she was because they started to actually shoot inside the building up in the air and into the ceiling. so a little tense situation in pockets of the city right now. because you do have neighborhoods -- this is a very mixed place, a mixed

neighborhood in a sense where there are gadhafi supporters and those people who really did not like the regime and felt the regime really cramped all of the things that they believe in, and all of their freedoms, so there's a lot of hatred for the regime, and you have the clash you are starting to see now in the city as the rebels take more and more control. there is also news happening now, and we just have gotten the information, and there's gunfire going off near the city square, near green square, which the rebels now call martyr's square. there's a fire fight that has been going on because there are snipers on the tops of building, and we have been able to confirm that with several different people in and around the area. certainly the rebels not in full control of tripoli, but they are trying to gain control of the rest of the city, and they have about 80% of it at this time. >> can you give us an idea what is going on behind you? we have seen a man going back

and forth behind with a flag, and there seems to be celebrating. can you show us around at all? >> reporter: we can't move the camera around, but i can turn around. just behind me, you see a person holding a gun and a flag waving, a few moments ago this area was filled with cars and men with ak 47s, and they all congregate here because they wanted to formulate their plan on how they were going to try and move through the city to try and push any gadhafi forces who were remaining in the city out or capture them. we also notice something interesting with the war. what is happening is they will all come in from all parts of the nearby countryside, come into the city square, and then at night, when it's time for the ramadan meal, they all leave the city and exit the city and they

go eat the meals, and sometimes they stay there for several hours, take a snooze, and then it's back on again in the evening or in the morning time. so an interesting way that they are trying to go back and forth, but it gives you an idea. we're along the coastal road, and behind me is the coastal road, the hard-fought battle over a road that brings supplies directly to tripoli. it has been cut off. so moammar gadhafi ask no longer get supplies. you are hearing gunfire. it's totally normal. we have been listening this all day long, every time the rebels feel like they made gains, they shoot in the air and celebrate. sit dangerous? yes. but this is the way that the rebels are celebrating what they see as a real victory, just getting into tripoli. >> i know you mention that gunfire is safe, but you also talked about the snipers in green square now, which has been

renamed martyr's square. how far are you from there? >> about four kilometers from that area. we have moved out because we were told -- we were not allowed to go down in the area. we don't know exactly where the snipers are, but we have confirmed they are there. the rebels are calling them mercenaries, saying they are from outside the country and loyalists to gadhafi because of money. we cannot confirm that, because if you see a sniper you can be in the line of fire. we did hear gunshots going back and forth through part of the day, and we know that's an issue. we also know that the rebels are trying to figure out how to get real control of the city. it's urban warfare. we know there were several journalists that got caught in an ambush. they are all okay, but each group of journalists going down the streets trying to figure out how to get to the city square did face some trouble.

you never know when you are going to turn the corner and find a tank or find one of the gadhafi loyalists or a gadhafi loyal members, or a rebel that that mistakes you for somebody else. >> the guys walking behind you, are they part of the rebel movement, or are these ordinary citizens who feel like it's safe enough to come out on the street and celebrate? >> reporter: it's a combination of both, really, randi. what we have been seeing all day and listening to all day is rapid gunfire, and then there will be a response often from cars honking, and then somebody else will shoot guns. a lot of guys that look like regular citizens, if you look at their arms, this guy has a rifle there, so sometimes it appears they are just normal citizens, and a lot of these rebels to be clear were not trained soldiers. these are guys that came from their neighborhood and decided they wanted to protect their city. you see that represented in the

people that show up, and often times in front of the camera, but in this case this is where the rebels are congregating every day. >> do you feel safe where you are? >> reporter: i think i have been around this so long, you get a sense that you're okay, and these guys know that we have been covering this conflict fairly, and they really are just here to show the world that they are celebrating. we were faced with a little aggression, because we did notice looting today in a couple buildings, and nobody wants their picture on television, as soon as they saw the camera they batted it away. generally speaking when we come into the situations, we have our credentials and our cnn credentials, and we tell them who we are and they say come on in, unless there's fighting in the area. >> we appreciate your reporting. please stay safe where you are. now i want to get insights

from matthew chance. our reporter is inside a hotel there which is actually surrounded by gadhafi forces. matthew, can you hear us and tell us exactly the situation there for you now? >> reporter: yeah, hey, i can hear you very well. but the communications in the hotel have been very, very bad indeed, because about five or six hours ago all the power went off in the hotel, and so we're in complete darkness and not able to charge any of our phones or equipment, and also the internet went down and the telephone system in tripoli went down, and it only just come up which means i can get through to you and tell you what is happening. we're all sitting here, a number of international journalists, perhaps a couple dozen international journalists in the darkness. we all sort of corralled ourselves on one of the upper floors on the interior of the hotel, in the lobby of the hotel upstairs.

because outside there's a ferocious gun battle, exchanges of heavy explosive as well, and rpgs and things like that, and fighting taking place between gadhafi loyalists and opposition fighters, around the area of colonel gadhafi's compound and around the area of the hotel, and these buildings are next door to each other. there's symbolic value of those attached to each other, and perhaps maybe that's why the lalists have not resisted, and they are putting up a resistance around the hotel and compound. this is one of the pockets of the gau coudhafi loyalists cont. and the fighting is taking place between those loyalists and the p opposition fighters, and they have flooded into parts of tripoli, often meeting no

resistance at all in areas of the capital. >> have the loyalists and his forces actually entered the hotel? they have threatened you and told you you cannot leave? >> reporter: well, they are inside the hotel. one of the reasons we have all come up on the upper floor is because we're quite spooked, because on the lower floors in the lobby area, there are pro gadhafi gunman, and green is the color associated with the progadhafi supporters here. on occasion they behave aggressively towards us and it has spooked many of the journalists in this hotel. and we're sitting in darkness. it's really hot because there is no air-conditioning, and it's hot outside, obviously. we have no kind of connection with the out side world for many, many hours. we have been sitting here in virtual silence, sweating and hoping that this is going to come to some kind of an end.

what has happened is the telephone lines have suddenly come back up again, so we are able to -- excuse me. so we are able to get a phone line out and communicate with the outside world. >> are you aware at all who might be winning this ferocious gun battle outside? is there any chance the rebel forces could get inside to help you? >> i think that might be an objective of the rebel forces to take the symbolically important areas. the compound of colonel gadhafi, and the speculation that the media could be holed up inside that compound but we have no evidence to confirm that. the hotel, where we are at here, it has been the scene of much of the reporting, and there are satellite up links which could be used, and it's an important strategic location for the gadhafi side and the opposition side. yeah, there's a battle outside.

we have no indication who is winning that battle. what we do know is that there are large numbers of gadhafi supporters, and gadhafi troops and volunteers that concentrated in this area around those locations. in other pockets in tripoli as well, where they are putting up defenses, we're hearing. as far as we can tell, and remember we're not allowed to get out of the hotel, the gunman down stairs, the loyalists are telling us we're not allowed to leave the hotel. as far as we can tell from the reports, though, many parts of tripoli have fallen into rebel hands. >> do you feel as though this is certainly a message from the gadhafi loyalists and the soldiers there that this is not over yet, that rebels, you have not won? >> reporter: it certainly seems -- everybody was surprised when the rebels managed to move into tripoli so quickly, especially if it took so long for them to take control.

they were fighting there for more than a week, remember. there was heavy and close combat with the gadhafi forces. they moved into tripoli in many places, virtually without resistance. and so it was very surprising because just the same day that they did that, a government official to gadhafi said there would be a fierce battle. there was 65,000 troops they said that were committed to defendsing the libyan capital. in the event, many of those troops melted away. they have picked their battles. what is not clear at the moment is whether that is a tactic in order to cut off the rebel supply lines, perhaps, and to hit them later on. certainly that has been something people have been imagining might happen. so far we have not seen it, accept in the pockets of resistance by the gadhafi forces. one of those pockets is right here around the hotel, and

around colonel gadhafi's compound just across the road. >> speaking of supplies, how are your supplies? we have no idea how long you will have to be holed up there? >> reporter: well, already supplies are running low. the generators have gone down because there is no fuel for them. we're in blackness and we have no electricity. and in terms of food and water, it's difficult to say. there are quite a few people here. some of the gadhafi loyalists have been taking food from the hotel as well, because they need supplies also. we have some water and we have some food, and we just are hoping that we can, you know, get through this with the supplies that we have got. >> matthew chance, we're all very worried about you. certainly you don't expect to become part of the story when you head out to cover a story. we're thinking about you here. please do stay safe. we will check back with you as soon as we can. we will take a quick break, but when we come back we will speak to a professor from texas

who has been advising the libyan rebels, and we will ask him what he thinks of their success and their victory, as it appears, today. ing to do anything. and i just decided i have more to offer than that. i put myself through nursing school, and then i decided to go get a doctorate degree. university of phoenix gave me the knowledge to make a difference in people's lives. my name is dr. kimberly horton. i manage a network of over a thousand nurses, and i am a phoenix. [ male announcer ] find your program at phoenix.edu. two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project in canada, we'll be able to produce these oil sands with the same emissions as many other oils and that's a huge breakthrough.

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process for national consillation, insuring those people have committed atrocities against libya, and other people are held accountable, and those people have stolen national wealth, and most people should not be held accountable for working with gadhafi, because they had no choice but to work with gadhafi. the other thing important is to quickly, quickly establish a new constitutional framework and a new system and hold elections. the current council itself as it stands is really not legitimate, just a bunch much people that came together and establish a government. that is wrong. they should establish free elections to elect a new body that will over see the elections and the writing of the constitution and the forming of the new government. that has to be done quickly, within the next three months. i am not sure what is taking

place in tripoli, and it's not if they win but when they win. gadhafi ultimately has lost and we have to start planning for the next phase of the development. >> let me ask you about the rebel's success. they have been painted of a rag tag group, and they made some progress, and lost the towns, and then needed weapons. what do you attribute their success to at this point? >> add you told me this about six or seven months ago, i would never believe that they would make it. don't misunderstand. the agility of the insurgents, they are just kids, and not professional soldiers or fighters, and it's only pure gut and will that has pushed them forward. they are learning in the process. and they will learn even more. i think the major success is the willingness to die for the cause. and, again, if you lived under

gadhafi's rule for 42 years, that's the only way out. you cannot take that for too long. and you see the majority of them were actually born during the gadhafi rule. so this is the major process. >> can the rebels govern, though? that's the question. there are so many factions within the rebel group? >> yeah, sometimes things happen that you can't help. you have approximately 12 to 15% libyans that have left libya, and have gone and lived in europe and the united states. i have lived here for the last 30 years, and i love the freedom that i see around me, and i love to see a new government that has checks and balances. i love to see a bill of rights. i am thinking, in the formation of the new constitution.

and i think we're helping them back and rebuilding the country. it's going to take time. but it's going to happen. >> all right. professor, we appreciate your time today and your insight as well. thank you. now, take a look at this. i want to show you how you can keep up with libya, minute by lib minute, and 24 hours a day at your computer. check out the live blog on cnn.com. you're always in the loop. you can see every hour or every few minutes at times, we get an update from somebody that may be traveling with the rebels, and somebody that could be in the middle of the city where there is a ferocious gun battle taking place, and you can check it out at cnn.com, a live blog. let's look at the markets. there you see the dow. up today. 128 points at this hour. alison kosik is live at the new

york stock exchange, and she'll be with us with the latest, next. ♪ [ female announcer ] we're throwing away misperceptions about natural gas vehicles. more of the vehicles that fuel our lives use clean american natural gas today. it costs about 40 percent less than gasoline, so why aren't we using it even more? start a conversation about using more natural gas vehicles in your community.

welcome back, everybody. glad you are with us. wall street is trying to pick itself up and durst itself off, and we want to let you know the president will be making a statement about libya, and that will happen at 2:00 today and we will bring those remarks to you as soon as we get them here in the "cnn newsroom." let's look at the dow meanwhile. the dow jumped nearly 200 points at the hoping bell, after one of the worst declines in history. and alison kosik at the new york stock exchange with the latest. how are things going?

>> the rally fizzled out once already during the session, and now it has come back. it's not based on any fundamental improvements in the economy, it's a bounce back from the past month because of how incredibly terrible the month has been. the dow and nasdaq are down 15 to 18%. it's a drop of more than 1800 points. today's gains are nice, but just a drop in the bucket compared to the recent losses we have had. it's a market clearly over sold. what you see is bargain hunting. people taking opportunity to buy stocks that have been beaten up over the past several weeks. >> and there's a meeting coming up, and how do you think that is weighing into the rally we're seeing today? >> i think you can pin it on the big meeting happening friday. ben bernanke will be speaking in wyoming. this is not a policy meeting, so interest rate announcement or

policy statement will come out of it. sob bernanke's speech will be i. there will be a mention of a stimulus, because everybody is thinking back to last year where bernanke hinted a new round of stimulus, and that helped to spark the rally and helped to keep unemployment from getting worse from where it is now. the question is, with the economy slowing, will we see a repeat performance? will the fed step in again. wall street is actually holding its breath and will watch that one closely to see if bernanke does hint of any stimulus coming our way. randi? >> i am sure a whole lot of folks are holding their breath. alison, thank you. hurricane irene batters the caribbean and is growing stronger as she gets closer to the u.s. what states could get hit? we will bring you the latest forecast in two minutes. my name's jeff.

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here is a look at the headlines and other news you may have missed. fierce fighting continues as rebel forces gain control of the large areas of the capital, and

even control they have taken control of state tv, which has gone black. and rebel forces are said to be regrouping for an offensive to battle the remaining forces in tripoli. no word on gadhafi's whereabouts at the moment. president obama will address the situation shortly, and he is keeping a close watch on libya while vacationing on martha's vineyard. the white house said he is getting freak wunt updates from his national security team. he issued a statement last night saying the momentum against the g gadhafi's regime. and then a fight broke out in the pre-season game at candlestick park yesterday. another beating inside the bathroom left a man onconscious. there were two unrelated

shootings after the game. the mayors of san francisco and oakland vowed to do all they could to keep the peace in the future. irene is hurricane irene. the first in the atlantic basin this year. there are growing concerns hurricane irene could cause flash floods and mudslides in haiti, and the dominican republic. chad meyers is watching it all. what are the odds. chad is making its way towards florida. what are the odds the hurricane will hit florida? >> it will turn to the right. it's a curveball. we look at the curveballs all the time. it's the storm that could chase hundreds of thousands if not millions of people from their homes and only yet to leave them 15 miles away, as it goes away and away and away. here is puerto rico.

there's circulation right there. that's where the low pressure, that's where irene is right now. it continues to get bigger, because it's now in very warm water. it's forecast to be a category one hurricane, where we are now. and quickly, tomorrow to a 2, and then maybe 3 and more. 3 three gets you to major hurricane category. and then the real threat, if this continues to curve and stays along the coast, the damage this storm could do would be tremendous at 115 miles per hour, hitting so much landfall. that theory, as it makes it's way towards florida, they make it's way towards this, and you evacuate this, and then all of a sudden you have millions of people trying to get back into and away from the coast and into the land, and away from the coast, it may never make landfall. there's a possibility it continues to curve to the north.

there's a possibility it could go over virginia and into new york city. that is still a possibility. so you have to understand that millions of people, this big storm could affect all the way from miami to boston in the next few days. you must watch the storm. we have a lot of meteorologist here. you will be seeing them all in the next couple days. >> is this common that a storm like irene will hit the u.s.? >> pretty common. >> and the last one that was big is bonnie. we have been in a tropical storm storm drought. and hurricane ike was the last one to hit the u.s. in galveston, and that's almost 3 1/2 years ago. but i don't think we're due, because i don't think there's such a thing as due when it comes to hurricanes, and it's about to get busy. the peak of hurricane season is not until september 10th.

we're not there yet. >> thank you. after decades in power, gadhafi's rule of libya appears to be over. we will have perspective after the break. job, they're backed by the superguarantee®? only superpages®. wherever you are, wherever you're going, you'll find the super business you need. so next time, let the good guys save the day. get the superguarantee®, only at superpages®. in the book ... on your phone or online. at liberty mutual, we know how much you count on your car and how much the people in your life count on you. that's why we offer accident forgiveness, man: good job. where your price won't increase due to your first accident.

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it is a serious topic many women need to be aware of. 1 in 6 women in the u.s. will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. 73% of them know their assailants. in a 2007 u.s. department of justice report nearly 2,000 women were raped after being given a date rape drug. these statistics is why the next guest decided to make a date

rape detector. this is something that caught our attention. how does this date rape drug detector work? >> well, actually, it looks -- it kind of looks like a pin head, and the end user will have to dip it into the suspected drink, and what it will do, it will sample a small portion of a drink, completely unnotable, and if there's a spiked drink, it will allow to use it. the user doesn't even have to dip it inside the drink. what he needs is some contact with the liquid. it could be liquid remains or the edge of the glass. >> which date rape drugs might it be able to detect? >> currently the system detects ghb, and it's one of the most

popular date rape drugs, and we hope to add to it other date rape drugs. >> what made you think of something like this? why do you think there's such a need to have something like this on the market? >> well, first of all, i was personally told about the person that was the victim of such an abuse. luckily there was no any sexual abuse, just a robbery. was robbed with the help of the date rape drug. and the report from 2007, we estimated the problem is great. >> what will it looks like actually when it becomes available, and when will it become available, too? when it does become available, what does it looks like? is it easy to use? >> it will be very easy to use and carry. it will look like a pin, very

small, tiny discreet, and anybody who will be able to carry it in his wallet, purse, pocket, whatever he wants to, and when will it be available? well, ms a good question. it actually depends on the funding and money. if we can get enough funding, we can get out with the commercialized period within the period of 1 1/2 years. >> thank you so much for joining us today. for more about the date rape drug detector, go to my facebook page. after decades in power, gadhafi's rule of power seems to be over. who is gadhafi and what is he like? [ male announcer ] life is full of missed opportunities.

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we want to take you live to martha's vineyard. we're waiting for the president to make comments about libya. what can you tell us? >> reporter: i came out of a background briefing with the deputy white house press secretary, and he shed a little more information on what is going on behind the scenes, what information the white house is getting. josh pointing out that there is no indication to contradict information that moammar gadhafi

has left the country. in addition to that he was asked whether or not president obama feels vindication by the fact that unrest has been helping in ousting gadhafi. he said the strategy has yielded favorable results. there was a question about whether or not the white house was able to get more information. last night, president obama said they wanted to get more clarity, if you will, before he came out and spoke on camera. so i asked him whether or not they were able to get additional information beyond what we know. he said to wait for the president's remarks at 2:00, but that since last night the white house had been able to get more clarity on the situation about what is going on on the ground. as we speak, president obama is also taking part in a conference call that he convened with his national security team. remember, this is something that

he did yesterday. senior members of his national security team, he had a conference call, and another one taking place now, for the latest developments in libya, and president obama will come out for the remarks, randy. >> just about 15 minutes away from the remarks. thank you so much for the update. >> as we have been talking about, extraordinary events unfoldi unfolding. and the battle certainly is not over just yet. this after the rebels swept into the city of tripoli. a final big push after months of see saw battles with loyals to gadhafi. as for gadhafi, who has ruled with an iron fist for over 40 years, his whereabouts unknown. gadhafi remains an erratic man with a history of bizarre behavior. joining us to shed light on

gadhafi is cnn's jim clancy. you interviewed him three times. >> twice in person and once by satellite. >> if you could sit down with him today, what would be your first question to him? >> why he had to hold on to power for so long. why he couldn't share it? why he couldn't give it up? what was the lure? >> what is he like in person? how did he come off to you? what is his body language like? is he short of outlandish as we watch him on the tv screen? >> he is all theatrics. it was his entrance. a voluptuous woman caringy an ak-47, and he would come in with a long flowing cape, beautifully sewn, and he would pause while the journalists were seated in the carpeted tent, and he would

say you are my tigris, no, she is my lioness, and then he would hurl his cape around himself and it was all theater. he appeared to be on drugs. >> really? >> some kind of drugs. he rambled incoherently. it was a journalists nightmare, ram bulling for two hours, and you could not find a sound bite. he was the first one in his family that learned to read and write. somehow he interpreted that that he inherited a special genius, and he wanted to share it, and he did it with a green book. >> was he always as defiant when you chatted with him as he seems to be today? >> he was always very pleasant when you chatted with him.

but he would lecture. he would not answer questions. he would just ramble all of the time. he was supremely confident that he was in charge of that world, and that the rest of the world just wasn't right, they didn't see it correctly. >> what do you expect will happen here? i know obviously we don't know for sure, but having met the man and chatted with him on three occasions -- >> he has a proud belief, and he stated it many times, and it's a hard tradition, and it's a desert tradition, and he could be someplace in southern libya, we suppose, and it's also quite likely, he is so underestimated by his opponents, this national transitional council that he is trapped someplace in the capi l capital. all the talk about shooting it out, i don't suspect he will end his days shooting it out. >> fascinating details from the interviews.

>> oh, and there is more. >> i am sure. we'll talk about that another time. a teacher in florida has been suspended for something that he wrote on his private facebook page. the question is was he exercising his right to free speech or should he be held to a different standard because he works for children? where do you go to find a super business? you know, the ones who do a super job? superpages.com®. for local maps, reviews and videos & it's the only local search site with the superguarantee®. so next time, let the good guys save the day. get the superguarantee®, only at superpages®. in the book, on your phone or at superpages.com®. a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult.

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will not be in his classroom in mount dora because he has been suspended for something he wrote on his private facebook page. jerry booul, who has been teaching 26 years and teacher of the year last year posted the comments last month when same sex marriage became legal in new york state. here's what he wrote. i'm watching the news, eating dinner when the story about new york okaying same sex marriage was on and i almost threw up. now they show two guys kissing after their announce. don't insult a man and woman's marriage by throwing in the same cesspool of whatever. god will not be mocked. >> the school was made aware of the comments last week and reassigned him to an administration job penitentiarying an investigation. they're looking into whether he violated the code of ethics. he stands by the postings citing his first amendment right to free speech and wants to get back in the classroom immediately.

he and his attorney join me now. thank you very much for coming on the show today. i'd like to begin with you. what compelled you to post those comments on facebook in the first place? do you usually post such personal thoughts on your facebook page? >> well, first of all, randi, thank you for having me on here. i appreciate the chance to express myself. i speak with passion. and it is a free country. being away from the classroom and at home on my own private time, nowhere in -- >> so stand by what you said then? >> yes, ma'am. i stand by what i said. one of things that makes america great is the fact that we can disagree and there's nothing wrong passion. it was not use of bad language or anything. just passionate words.

>> i know you've said this is a first amendment issue as well. that your client has a right to free speech. but the school is calling for a ethics violation here and certainly an investigation surrounding that. what would be your response to how the school is handling this? >> you know, whatever the school's ethics rules are, they cannot purport to supplant the first amendment. if the first amendment does nothing else, randi, it protects the right of all americans, including public school teachers like mr. buell, to engage in robust public discourse about issues of the day and to express their opinions about the issues without fear of reprisal for what they think or how they say what they think. the idea that mr. buell could be punished not for something he did in class or at school, but for something that he said while acting strictly as a private citizen is repugnant to the constitution and should send chills up the spine of every

freedom loving american regardless of where they come on the issue of same sex marriage. >> mr. buell, do you think you should go back in the classroom? i'm curious if you're worried or concerned at all about how your comments might be taken by a gay student who might be in your classroom. >> well, that's where i should be right now. finishing up my fourth period class. let me say this, randi, this is the way i teach. this morning when my group of kids would have come into my class for the first time, within a time period that they had me, they would know that i love them, that i respect them, that i respect them as the children of god and creations of god that they are, that they are the best thing that their parents have to send to me and their parents are expecting me to do a good job with them. i explain to my students, my kids, you won't feel safer, you won't find a place you're more respected and you won't find a place you'll have more fun all day. i would challenge anybody to ask anyone in my thousands of

students if that has not proven to be true. >> jerry buell, hairy mi hechlt et, thank you. thank you. >> thank you for having us, randi. congressional leaders react to the fast moving situation in libya. we'll take you live to capitol hill, next.

-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com leading lawmakers are going public on their take with the crisis in libya. we want to bring in wolf blitzer. let's get to kate baldwin first live in washington. a couple of republicans in particular are talking. lindsey graham of south carolina, john mccain of arizona. what are they saying, kate? >> interesting.

hey there, randi, senators mccain and graham have been among the more vocal lawmakers. they've been calling for u.s. involvement in libya throughout this conflict. both are key members on military informed policy matters. in a joint statement, mccain and graham called an end to the gadhafi regime a victory for the libyan people. as they put it, a victory for the broader cause of freedom throughout the world. they applaud the efforts of the libyan people and the international community for reaching this point. but note what we've heard from many other officials. there's recognition that this is only a step, meaning if the gadhafi regime falls and there remains a long road ahead. listen to senator mccain on cbs. >> it's going to be a big challenge for me. a new government, uniting a country that's never known democracy. we've seen the difficulties with other countries that have made this transition. but we will be rid of a guy who has the blood of americans on

his hands. we will be rid of a guy who has practiced worst kind of brutalities and now it's going to be up to us and the europeans. >> reporter: and while other lawmakers like joe lieberman have released statements saying the u.s. should -- the role they've played. mccain and graham, randi, criticize the obama administration for not doing more to bring the conflict to an end sooner. in their view, they believe that the president was leading from behind and that's one issue that they said that where he has failed. the obama administration at large has failed here. >> all right. kate bold uan, thank you. wolf blitzer is standing by. wolf, what do you expect the president will say or should say? >> i think he's going to probably say on camera what he said in the written statement last night. very similar. i don't think he'll go much further than we heard last night, namely, that this is a turning point, obviously it looks like it's the end of

gadhafi. gadhafi's regime. the end of his rule in libya. that he should surrender. it's over for gadhafi. i think he's going to note the unified nato stance, how the allies have gotten together. i would be surprised if he goes a lot further than that unless he's going to release some new information that we're not familiar with. i think basically it will be a rewrite of what he said on paper in that written statement last night. but we'll see. we'll know soon enough. it's interesting the way he's doing it. as you know, he's on vacation in martha's vineyard, randi. he's going to go before cameras. we'll get that videotape, all the networks have a pool arrangement. about 20 minutes or so after he gives it. we will hear it live. the audio only as you know and i think our viewers are are going to hear it -- hear what the president has to say live and then we'll see him make that statement about 15 or 20 minutes later once we feed -- once the pool feeds in that actual statement. >> you know, we spoke with dan

lothian from the vineyard a few minutes ago. he was saying that the administration was already taking questions about whether or not the president feels vindicated. they didn't seem to exactly answer that question. a spokesman didn't at least. do you think they'll get any sense of vindication that yes, i told you so, this was the right move. >> i don't think he's going to gloat or anything. it's still a very, very uncertain situation. yes, it looks like gadhafi has done, his sons arrested there will be a new regime and transition into this new regime in libya. no one knows for sure what it's going to look like in six days or six months or six years. so i suspect there's not going to be any mission accomplished type of statement along those lines. although, he will praise nato, he will praise some of the arab countries that have helped the libyan rebels, specifically i don't know if i'll get into details, cutter, for example. the united arab emirates. they've been helpful in trying

to get rid of gadhafi. they recognize the rebels as the legit -- long before the united states did that. i suspect he's going to show how the united nations security council action that resolution calling for the no fly zone, all of the international cooperation played a significant role. and if -- i don't know if he's going to do it, but i suspect he may say at the end, others in the region should be watching and listening carefully. if he does say that, that will be a message to bashar al assad of syria. if you're in damascus right now and you're the leader of syria watching what's unfolding in libya, you're obviously getting very, very nervous. this arab spring has revolutionized. been so dramatic in north africa and the middle east, it's by no means over. look at egypt, gadhafi in libya. bashar -- ask himself, am i next? there are a lot of protestors and demonstrators in syria

saying yes, you will be next unless you step down yourself. >> wolf, i know that you, along with many of us have been watching the coverage from our sara side ner in tripoli doing a fantastic job on the ground, putting herself in harm's way. we have her on the phone right now. sara, can you set the scene for us where you are now and tell us what's happening? >> caller: sure. what we've been seeing in the last hour or so, rebels leaving the city. they're not leaving the city because they're fleeing. they go and have their evening meal after ramadan. and then we will start in the evening time as the sunsets, them coming back into the city and regrouping. we do know that there was a firefight today. what we do not know is whether or not that firefight is continuing because we can no longer get close enough to it to hear the gunfire. but we did hear that a few hours

back, some fire near the city center. the rebels are telling us that there were apparently snipers on some of those buildings. so they have not been able to clear the city. there's a general sense of jubilation from the rebels who are running around in their cars, parading around, holding their guns, firing in the air. but generally speaking, they all agree that they do not have full control of the capital. some of them, to be quite honest, i think were standing around today just looking at each other wondering how did this happen so fast. even the rebels themselves surprised at how easily they were able to get in the city. we came in from the west. so we're talking about those folks who came in from za i can't. they told us they are surprised that they were able to get in. now it's a matter of figuring out how they can secure each and

every neighborhood. that's not so easy when you're talking about urban warfare. you don't know what's around the corner. >> wolf blitzer is with us as well. i know he has questions for you. wolf? >> sara, you're doing an amazing job for us. thank you so much. just be careful over there. here's my question. this is what i'm hearing from my sources here in washington. that moammar gadhafi almost certainly, almost certainly is in libya someplace. they don't know where in libya he is, but they think that if he had managed to get out of libya to another country, whether zimbabwe or chad or venezuela or chad, they think they would know that. the u.s. intelligence community would know it. what is the best information that the rebels that you're with are getting about the whereabouts of gadhafi? >> caller: they actually believe that he is in, somewhere in tripoli. they don't know if he's gone undergrou underground. there's a lot of rumors, wolf. this happens at a time like this when there's general chaos basically in the city with no

one really in control. there are rumors going all over the place. rampant rumors. i think that general sanchez says he is either in the city or somewhere very close to the city and so everyone a little bit tense about exactly where he is. they were able, though, to start detaining people. it's an interesting thing that happens here when you see these rebels come in, they have a group of them that often are responsible for starting to -- start sort of their own kind of justice system where they will detain certain people and one of the gadhafi regime's, the faces of the regime to some extent, one of the anchors of libyan state tv was arrested today. so when you start hearing these arrests, you have gadhafi's sons arrested, this anchor, this is a woman who went on television and held a gun talking about i will die or you will die. and people very angry. it's an interesting thing to

watch. a bit scary to watch, to be honest. once they've detained someone from the regime, the residents and some of the rebels really want to get at them and make them suffer because they feel like the regime -- anyone who represents the regime wants to see that person also suffer to some extent. i can tell you that the rebels did have this woman inside of a room. they told us that she was fine. although we weren't able to see her. but there's a general sense that they were going to try to protect her even though a lot of people on the outside wanted to get at her and i'm sure i am absolute certain, that if moammar gadhafi is in tripoli or anywhere that the rebels are in control, there's going to be a general sense from people that he is going to pay for his crimes right now. that could be a really, really ugly situation that you might see if the rebels end up finding him. certainly, it wod beteresting s

never are quite sure what will happen if they find him. who finds him will be significant and what they'll do with him, if they do end up finding him. >> sara, wolf, i'd also like to add to our discussion here. we have william cohen, the former u.s. defense secretary joining us as well and fa reed za car i can't and ken robinson and 30-year veteran of military intelligence. secretary cohen, let me go to you first here. is this what nato envisioned do you think when it launched the mission to protect the civilians in libya. >> there was always something of a mismatch between what nato declared its mission to be and the public statements by the leadership of both france and britain. also president obama, namely that gadhafi had to go. so i think that that was more of a fig leaf to cover the naked truth that this had to be a mission to remove gadhafi under

the rubric of a mission to protect the rebels from being assaulted by gadhafi himself. so i think nato had this in mind. it was not able to express it because it would have contravened the u.n. security council resolution, the arab league resolution to support a no fly zone. >> wolf? >> the whole notion of that no-fly zone, mr. secretary, obviously was very significant. but i suspect the aerial bombardment, the pounding of libyan positions throughout these many months played a much more significant role in destroying what remained of gadhafi's forces and helping the rebels. obviously, the rebels would be nowhere near tripoli if nato hadn't gotten involved. i assume that's your assessment as well. >> there was no question that the bombing campaign was what undermined gadhafi's ability to continue to mount an assault

against the rebels. once the president of the united states announced publicly that gadhafi had to go, then it seems to me we had very little choice but to see to it that gadhafi went. i had hoped at that point there would be an intensification of the bombing campaign so this didn't dragon for months and longer whereby gadhafi would try to say let's have a peace agreement and cease-fire and let me stay in power, my sons in power. that would have been a defeat for nato and the president. i think playing a secondary role, a supportive role, i don't have difficulty with that. as you may recall, secretary gates said libya was not in our vital national security interests. once the president of france, the prime minister of britain declared they would support the rebels and the arab league signed on to the no fly zone, i think the president had very little choice. i do believe he was right in having a leading from behind as such or having a supportive role rather than once again, taking

the lead as he did in iraq and afghanistan and to say that we're now going to take the lead in the third country, arab country, i think would have been counterproductive. in that perspective, it was the right decision. >> one other question, randi and we'll move on to some of the other analysts with us. mr. secretary, mike rogers, the chairman of the house intelligence committee, he issued a statement today saying his number priority right now is whatever stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, specifically poisonous gas, mustard gas, that the libyans have and he says the u.s. intelligence knows that nef stockpiles along those lines, what if anything can be done to secure those kinds of stockpiles? >> well, to the extent that we know where they are, obviously, we would want to work with our nato allies and to communicate directly with the rebels whom we have supported to make an accounting of those and turn those over. that would be something i think the rebels would be most

interested in doing. there's still the issue, wolf, and you pointed this out, we are not sure at this point who the rebels really are. you may recall that once we got into this, who they are, are they supported by al qaeda units, et cetera? we're putting cia personnel on the ground to find out who they are. no boots on the ground but hush puppies so to speak. we've been trying to gather information, intelligence about where they're likely to go. we took a big leap of faith by supporting them and saying gadhafi was so bad that anyone who was opposing him had to be better than what he was. but we still don't know how it will unfold. we hope it will turn into a democratic government over a period of time with institutions being built with some assistance from countries who are willing to do so and the libyan people willing to invite us to participate. but we have a long way to go before we see how this is going to finally formalize itself. >> all right. very good. randi, go ahead. i want to bring in host of

fa rid za karia. is this the end for gadhafi as you see it. if so, what does libya look like if and when gadhafi falls? >> it's unquestionably the end for dpad fi. he may -- whatever happens to him personally, whether he stays in tripoli, whether he escapes or tried, the regime has lost control. the regime lost a monopoly of force. large parts of the country were already under rebel control. now you confront, you're right the big question of what a post gadhafi libya looks like. my guess is that what we're going to see is something somewhat similar to what we saw in iraq in the sense that we will be surprised at how little there is in this country and this oil-rich country. i remember when i went to iraq, the thing that struck you most was this was one of the richest petroleum rich countries in the world and it looked like bang le

desh. very poor country. it has the similar characteristics. limited civil society, very limited infrastructure, very limited sense of a kind of national state that has provided for its people. very strong tribes. obviously the historical divide between the east and the west. from this all, they have to create a workable, political system. it's a daunting challenge, actually one more reason why i think secretary cohen was right that it was actually quite wise for president obama to have a supportive rather than a leading role here. we have enough on our plate in trying to rebuild iraq and afghanistan into modern functioning states in the first place. if we had taken the lead role here, paid the price, beared the burdens, we would have inherited whatever post gadhafi libya will look like. right now, this will necessarily be a libyan operation, a libyan

effort. there will be a lot of international help which we should be part of very much. we didn't break it and so we don't have to buy it. >> fareed stay with us a few more minutes, we want to keep the whole group because we're waiting for the president. we should hear from him we hope in a few more minutes. keep it here and we'll continue this discussion right after a very quick break. bayer aspirin? try this. i'm not having a heart attack. it's my back. no, this is new bayer advanced aspirin... clinically proven to relieve tough pain twice as fast as before. what, did you invent this or something? well, my team did. i'm dr. eric first, from bayer. wow. look. it has microparticles. it enters the bloodstream faster and rushes relief right to the site of pain. better? great! thanks. [ male announcer ] new bayer advanced aspirin. extra strength pain relief. twice as fast. test our fast relief. love it, or get your money back. handle more than 165 billion letters and packages a year. that's about 34 million pounds of mail every day.

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the editor at large for time magazine and william cohen, former defense secretary and ken robinson a veteran of u.s. special forces. fareed, let me pick up with you as we wait for the president to speak in a few minutes on libya. if we could just pick up with what we were talking about. libyans haven't had a voice really for 42 years. they have no experience with democracy at all. is this something that they can learn? >> you know, i think that large numbers of people have not had experience with democracy. it doesn't necessarily mean that they can't learn. it means it's going to be hard. because what happens in the absence of democratic traditions, democratic experience, the rule of law in civil society, which are probably more important, people revert to their oldest associations. so that that would mean tribes, that would mean ethnicity and sectarianism. that's traditionally what tends to happen in these situations. you saw it in iraq where there

was a reversion to kurdish identities. you see it in afghanistan. my guess is you will see a lot more of the tribes and tribal affiliations in libya. the key effort should be as broad and inclusive a national government as possible. this is, i think, the one lesson of iraq and afghanistan. do not exclude those who lose. do not exclude the old elite. try to bring everybody in. >> fareed, i'm sorry to interrupt you. but the president is speaking right now. i spoke to prime minister cameron about the extraordinary events taking place there. the situation is still very fluid. there remains a degree of uncertainty and regime elements who pose a threat. but this much is clear. the gadhafi regime is coming to an end. the future of libya is in the hands of its people. in just six months, the 42-year rein of moammar gadhafi has unraffled. early krer this year, we were

inspired by the peaceful protests that broke out across libya. this basic and joyful longing for freedom echoed the voices we heard all across the region. in the face of the protests, the gadhafi regime responded with brutal crackdowns, civilians were murdered in the streets, a campaign of violence was launched against the libyan people. gadhafi threatened to hunt peaceful protestors down like rats. as the forces advanced across the country, there was the potential for wholesale massacres of innocent civilians. in the face of this aggression, the international community took action. the united states helped shape a u.n. security council resolution mandating the protection of libyan civilians. unprecedented coalition was formed that included the united states, our nato partners and arab nations. in march, the international community launched a military

operation to save lives and stop gadhafi's forces in their tracks. in the early days of this intervention, the united states provided the bulk of the firepower and then our friends and allies stepped forward. the transitional national council established itself as a credible representative of the libyan people. the united states, together with our european allies and friends across the region, recognized the tnc as the legitimate governing authority in libya. gadhafi was cut off from arms and cash and his forces were steadily degraded. from benghazi to misurata to the western mountains, they confronted the regime and the tide turned in their favor. over the last several days, the situation in libya has reached a tipping point. as the opposition increased coordination from east to west, took town after town and the people of tripoli rose up to claim their freedom. for over four decades, libyan

people had lived under the rule of a tyrant who denied them basic human rights. now the celebrations that we've seen in the streets of libya shows that the pursuit of human dignity is far stronger than any dictator. i want to emphasize that this is not over yet. as the regime collapses, there's still fierce fighting in some areas. we have reports of regime elements threatening to continue fighting. although it's clear that gadhafi's rule is over, he still has the opportunity to reduce further bloodshed by explicitly relinquishing power to the people of libya and calling for the forces that continue to fight to lay down their arms for the sake of libya. as we move forward from this pivotal phase, the opposition should continue to take important steps to take on a transition that's peaceful, inclusive and just. as the leadership of the tnc has made clear, the rights of all

libyans must be respected. true justice will not come from reprisals and violence. it will come from reconciliation and a libya that allows its citizens to determine their own destiny. in that effort, the united states will be a friend and a partner. we will join with allies and partners to continue the work of safeguarding the people of libya as remaining regime elements part of the country, i have directed my team to be in close contact with nato as well as the united nations to determine other steps that we can take to deal with the humanitarian impact, we're working to ensure that critical supplies reach those in need, particularly those who are wounded. secretary clinton spoke today with her counterparts of the coalition on these matters and i've directed susan rice to request that the u.n. secretary general use next month's general assembly to support this important transition. for many months, the tnc has

been working with the international community to prepare for a post gadhafi libya. as those efforts proceed, our diplomats will work with the tmc as they ensure that the institutions of the libyan state are protected. we will support them with the assets of the gadhafi regime that were frozen earlier this year. above all, we will call for an inclusive transition that leads to a democratic libya. as we move forward, we should also recognize the extraordinary work that has already been done. to the american people, these events have particular resonance. gadhafi's regime has murdered scores of american citizens in acts of terror in the past. we remember the lives of those taken in those acts of terror and stand in solidarity with their families. we also pay tribute to admiral sam lockly and all of the men and women in uniform who saved so many lives over the last several months, including our brave pilots. they've executed their mission

with skill and extraordinary bravery and all of this was done without putting a single u.s. troop on the ground. to our friends and allies, the libyan intervention demonstrates what the international community can achieve when we stand together as one. although the efforts in libya are not yet over, nato has once more proven that it is the most capable alliance in the world. that its strength comes from both its firepower and the power of our democratic ideals. and the arab members of our coalition have stepped up and shown what can be achieved when we act together as equal partners. their actions sent a powerful message about the unity of our effort and our support for the future of libya. finally, the libyan people. your courage and character have been unbreakable in the face of a tyrant. an ocean divides us but we're joined in the basic human longing for freedom, for justice

and for dignity. your revolution is your own and your sacrifices have been extraordinary. now, the libya that you deserve is within your reach. going forward, we will stay in close coordination with the tnc to support that outcome. though there will be huge challenges ahead, the extraordinary events in libya remind us that fear can give way to hope and that the power of people striving for freedom can bring about a brighter day. thank you very much. >> all right. there you have it. you've been listening to president obama making a brief statement from his vacation on ma that's vineyard talking about libya. let's get back to our team here. wolf blitzer joining me as co-anchor on the battle for tripoli coverage. we have fareed zakaria, william cohen and ken robinson, the veteran of u.s. special forces. let me ask you, mr. secretary, first and we'll get to the others in just a moment.

do you think we heard what we needed to hear there? when the president talks about a support role for the future of libya, what might that role and what should that role look like, do you think? >> well, first i thought it was a very good speech. it was concise. it was modest. and i think it was inspirational as far as the people of libya in hearing that message. in terms of what we should do, i think the question should be not be what should we do now for libya. but rather, asking libyan people what would you like us to do, what help can we give you. allow them to ask us for what kind of assistance they would like to see. i think a danger is, when we sit back and say well now we have to do the following types of things to make in a functioning democracy. i think we have to step back a bit and be more in the receptive mode asking the libyan people to say, how can we help you and then respond. right now we can help them, i suppose. wolf raised the excellent question before. what about their weapons of mass

destruction that have been accumulated over the years. do we know that they exist, can they help us find them and secure them. number two, how can we help you maintain stability. can we continue to help you attack the strongholds that gadhafi forces still have? we're prepared to do that as well. we'll provide intelligence, we'll provide drones that are armed, that can take out tanks to the extent they can be used. how can we help you maintain stability. third, economically, what short term cash needs do you need? how can we help you in calling upon uae, cutter, other countries in the region have been helpful. how can they help in the short term. long-term, what can we do militarily to help train and equip your forces fort future so you have a secure country. all of that i think is possible. much will depend upon where do the libyan people intend to go. what kind of a country are they going to have, secular or

sectarian or a democratic system or in which fareed mentioned -- all of these questions have been sorted out. in the meantime, we have to call this day the day for the libyan people, praise them for their courage, their sacrifice and then ask them how we can help. >> you know, mr. secretary, i was, i guess, maybe a bit taken back by the urgency of what the president expressed the concern over, namely, the potential for a lot of violence unfolding in libya in the coming days and weeks. he said, this is not yet over obviously. but he says as we move forward, he appealed for a transition that is peaceful, inclusive and just and then he went out of his way to also appeal for no reprisals and no violence and reconciliation. but given the passions, given the hatred of gadhafi of his sons, of his entire -- that entire regime, isn't it naive to

think that that that's going to unfold. right now there's not going to be a whole wave of revenge killing and violence unfolding in libya right now. i'm a little concerned about that. i suspect you are as well. >> that may very well take place. i think what we need is a libyan mandela. >> i don't think there is one, though. there is no libyan mandela. >> a truth and reconciliation process whereby the recognition that the libyan people can recognize what has taken place in iraq, what has taken place in afghanistan, how have they failed to carry out producing a democratic system that's unifying rather thandie vice sif. we need to have voices within the -- calling for truth and reconciliation rather than retribution. whether that will take place remains to be seen. that's the message the president is sending fort. hopefully other arab leaders will say the same thing and hopefully the libyan people will see they have achieved their

goal, on the verge of achieving their goal and now what they need to do to hold the country together is put aside the need and the cry for retribution which is very strong to see that they can, in fact, produce a country rich in resource and with the help of international community will be beneficial for the people rather than simply resorting to old time religion so to speak and back to sectarian types of violence. that's a possibility. one we hope that will not take place. >> it certainly is. the potential for violence is enormo enormous. i heard that in the president's own remarks. fareed, you know, at some point the rebels are going to capture moammar gadhafi. by all accounts he's somewhere in libya. no one knows where he is. but he's probably in libya someplace. if he would have escaped, i think the u.s. intelligence community would have picked up indication whether he went to another country. i'm told that most experts here believe he remains in libya. here's the question fareed. when they capture moammar

gadhafi, the rebels, will they on the one head read him miranda rights and arrest him and put him in prison or will they quickly kill him? >> they do not have miranda rights. i think, wolf, it's the central question. it follows directly from the conversation you were having with bilko hen. i think what's crucial is that we, the european community and other arab states make sure the libyans understand this will be perhaps the crucial test of whether or not they come across as trying to build a new libya or to settle scores. of course, they will need to do some things that have the feeling of justice and retribution and things like that. but the manner in which they conduct themselves is going to send a very powerful signal to all libyans. because remember, there were very important tribes that supported gadhafi. it will send a signal that says, we are -- we're going to try to be fair and try to be inclusive. that's why obama mentioned the

word inclusive two or three times. as you pointed out, the need that there aren't reprisals. what did we learn from iraq and afghanistan. by shutting out the sunnis, we invited war. the great -- they had been shut out of power, that gave the taliban an enormous boost. if there's one lesson here, try to include everybody, including the losers. that's why bilko hen is exactly right. we need the spirit of mandela. there are many other countries that have managed some kind of national un knit. the symbolic issue will be gadhafi. so far the libyan opposition has been quite generous in saying that they will give him safe passage. they will not kill him. you know, if they keep up with that spirit, what they do specifically is less important than the sense that they are trying to do this on the basis of justice and fairness rather than revenge and retribution. >> that's a good point. let me bring ken robinson into this conversation.

given the passions, what's going on in libya right now, what do you think is going to happen, ken? >> well, i agree very much with secretary cohen and what fareed has said. the libyans have demonstrated a sense of, they know what needs to happen next and that is a battle for legitimacy and a battle to be seen in the region as part of the community of nations. the only way to do that right is what they've done so far, they've protected the sons, they've allegedly said that they will also protect moammar gadhafi. we do know that there will be looting and there will be a sense of unrest for a certain period of time. but there is plans in place right now by the tnc to retain the police, to move police forces into the city, to try to establish governance very quickly. that's not something we did very well as americans when we occupied baghdad or when we occupied kabul. both of which i participated in. i think that the tribes themselves of the tnc have that

sense of what they don't want a repeat of. that is in lawrence of arabia's case, taking damascus and losing it. or in this case, now finally taking tripoli and losing it. losing the war when they won a battle. the war is legitimacy. >> ken, if i could follow-up with you just for a moment here. we know that the rebels and the national transitional council have created this blueprint because they wanted to avoid exactly what happened after the fall of saddam hussein. what do you think, we don't know what's in the blueprint. but what do you think it should include? >> i any what it includes is exactly what's been urged by the president's message today. it's very consistent. the men in charge of the tnc at the very top, there has been shifts in power there, but for the most part, they're extremely educated men with a sense of history. they recognize what's at stake. the people that did the fighting are not necessarily who o do the governing. the important thing is the message of inclusion, very rapidly establishing governance.

establishing legitimacy for the new government as it takes place and also understanding how to define democracy if that is what's to happen. remember, that democracy doesn't mean that thomas jefferson's hand is going to be on the document. it may take a different form, but we'll pull together what works for them by them since this is their revolution as secretary cohen said. >> wolf, you want to give us one quick final thought? >> i think that these days are going to be critical right now in libya. it could go in either direction. everyone is hoping no one more so than the president, you heard it in his remarks, that there is a period of reconciliation and relative quiet in dealing with those forces loyal to moammar gadhafi. but given some of the history, given some of the passions involved, the great fear is it's not necessarily going to go in that direction and the violence that we've seen in recent month could be a prelude to a lot more in the coming days. but we'll have to watch it closely and see what happens.

as the president says, the situation remains very fluid and there is a period of uncertainty that we're about to see. i think that's obvious. >> it certainly is. wolf blitzer, appreciate having you on with me today as well as fareed zakaria, former defense secretary william cohen and ken robinson. pleasure to have all of you a part of in very important discussion. we'll continue our coverage of libya and the battle for trip will. we'll have other news as well after a quick break. finally, there's a choice for my patients with an irregular heartbeat called atrial fibrillation, or afib, that's not caused

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ask your doctor if pradaxa can reduce your risk of a stroke. as president obama reminded us minutes ago, the situation in

tripoli is fluid. their success today simply amazing. from a poorly armed and trained rag tag group to what they are now, a fighting force on the verge of winning a stunning victory in a bloody civil war. just who are the rebels and how were they able to push into the capital so easily? cnn's michael holmes just returned from libya where he spent two weeks with the rebels. he's here now to talk about this. what are your thoughts? i think a lot of people, even the rebels themselves are surprised by how quickly and somewhat easily they got into tripoli. >> there was that stalemate going on from the east, wasn't there? misurata and other places. there was a stalemate on the western side too. the key is where we were. we were with the western mountain rebels in the mountains. those guys had been waiting and waiting up on the mountains and then when they decided they wanted to go, they went. they took town after town after town. they were very well-organized. they looked like a mad max army.

some of the stuff and the weaponry how they were mounting it was crazy. they're the ones that push to the coast, got to the coast and led to this. >> a lot of people are wondering how did they pull it together. they didn't have the weapons, or enough nato support. they had some gains but they got pushed back. all of a sudden, there they were. where do you think that came from? a real -- >> it was truly a popular uprising. what these guys had, they had their makeshift weapons. but the weapons they were capturing from gadhafi forces are weapons raided from munitions depots they captured as they went along. you've seen the pictures. i put pictures on the web too. you've got pickup trucks with anti-aircraft guns on the back, rocket launchers mounted on the back. the most bizarre one i saw was the top of a tank, the firing mechanism and the top mount of it on the back of a pickup truck. these guys were firing tank shells. there's a couple of pictures of the vehicles.

this was in the battle on the second of three fronts they opened up. we were on the frontlines there and the rockets were going out and the anti-aircraft and gadhafi forces were firing back as well. it was a very, very intense day for all of us, i can tell you. >> you were caught in the middle of battle with them. >> we were right at the frontline of that one. rebels lost eight guys that die that day. you can see one of the rockets taking off from that truck. >> did you think that these guys could actually defeat gadhafi's forces and do they actually believe, they're not calling this a victory yet, the leader of the rebels isn't until they get gadhafi. do they think this will happen. >> yeah, yeah. they were full of confidence. in some ways, it was bravado as well. that battle really convinced me that they knew what they were doing. they had command and control that was beyond their capabilities. that guy there that you're looking at, he was a bulldozer driver, he was a commander in the battlefield. another one of the commanders in

the battlefield was an x-ray technician. this was truly a popular uprising. there was students, a kid from manchester english whose english was better than arabic. he was born and bred in england. two days of training with an ak-47 on the frontlines. they did know what they were doing. they were on a steep learning curve and it paid off in the end. >> do you think they can govern? >> this is the big problem. what you've got there is a marriage of convenience. libya is a very tribal society. it's got some ethnic splits as well. there's a whole other story you can go into. what they've done is come together on this marriage of convenience to combat a common enemy, that is gadhafi, of course. now that he's gone, what's going to happen? when they get in there and try to set up a government, is it going to work? all the old arguments, where we were in the western mountains, they're 20 kilometers apart, they wouldn't have dinner together. that fella there was a teacher.

one of the rebel commanders. they wouldn't have dinner together. now they're expected to get along in a hurry and govern. at the same time, you've got all these weapons out there in essentially civilian hand. >> right. >> if things do splinter, you have ready made local militias armed with very nasty weapons. this could go a couple of ways. that's going to be the test in the next few days. >> we're glad that you're back safely. haven't seen you in the studio. nice to have you back. >> good to see you too. the gadhafi regime is on its last leg. how his possible ouster could impact the oil markets. we'll have it for you. brother credit 'cause you'll need a loan for one thing or another score 'cause they break it down to one simple number that you can use dot to take a break because the name is kinda long com in honor of the internet that it's on put it all together at the end of the song it gives you freecreditscore-dot-com, and i'm gone...

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in today's taking the lead, libya was once the 17th largest oil producer in the world. that's key to the economy. with moammar gadhafi's regime crumbling, we're wondering when it will be back to full capacity. how will it affect oil prices.

unforeseen factors could interfere in resuming pre ducks. christine romans has much more. >> after six months of civil war, already world markets wondering when libya once a proud oil producer will be back on-line with oil for the world markets. it may seem crass to talk about economics when it is freedom that is being celebrated in the streets of libya. it is that money, that oil-richness that will help drive whatever comes next for this country. it is the engine of the libyan economy. it is accounts for 95% of libya's economy as the oil infrastructure. before the civil war, what was the situation with libya and the oil supply? it was the 17th largest oil producer. that was about 2% of world oil supply. about 1.8 million barrels of oil a day. the u.s. consumed only 3% of libya's oil exports. most of its light sweet crude went to the european market. it's the kind of crude that's very easily refined to use in automobiles for example.

it's a palatable kind of product for the european markets. what happens next? remember, having that oil off line was big enough deal that even the president of the united states tapped into america's emergency supplies of oil because just that 3% that the u.s. consumes being off line was enough to make a difference. you already have oil prices moving lower in this country. gasoline prices moving lower already in this country. this is something analysts say will help that situation, but it's unclear how long one year, three years, five years, it could take for libya to be up and running to pre-civil war levels of oil production. christine romans, cnn, new york. the crisis in libya, especially if gadhafi is overthrown will have a definite impact on the u.s. and the upheaval in syria as well. the we'll talk with a former ambassador in two minutes. keep it here. ♪ [ country ]

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welcome back. edward is the founding director of the james baker institute at rice university and a former ambassador to syria and israel. he joins us today from houston. ambassador, if you would, give us your prognosis if gadhafi falls. >> well, if indeed gadhafi does fall, i think there are some immediate and then long-term challenges. first to the libyan people and the national transitional council in libya. i think the challenges then to the united states and the international community on how to face the post gadhafi era and then i also think there are implications of the fall of gadhafi and the rest of the arab world and especially syria. on the first point, the immediate challenge for the national transitional council in libya after gadhafi goes is one to restore law and order, to establish an inclusive and just political process of transition in the country which means

getting a timeline for constitution for parliamentary elections, that is very important and critically, i think in your last segment you talked about libyan oil and it important role is getting the libyan economy going so it can produce jobs. those are the challenges that the libyan people and the transitional council face in the first instance. >> when we talk about the rest of the world -- i'm sorry to interrupt you. i did want to ask you about syria. when you look at president al assad there struggling to hold on to power, what do you think he's thinking as he watches what's happening in libya? >> well, he and his regime have to be very disturbed not only by the arab awakening and the impact on syria, the popular unrest in syria. but here is another dictator,

who used force against his own people and that is a similar context in syria where the syrian regime is using force and killing its own people to remain in power and with the fall of gadhafi and his imminent demise that establishes yet another precedent for the elimination of dictatorships in arab world which is like for whom the bell tolls. that what's coming next will be syria. so the psychological, political impact on syria, which is becoming increasingly isolated in the middle east, is very relevant. but i think in terms of the challenges to us, the united states and the international community, i would hope that the united states will take a leading role in helping to bring together an international coalition of forces, the

europeans, nato to help the libyans in terms of humanitarian and stabilization of issues. >> all right. ambassador edward, appreciate your time and insight. thank you very much. cnn news rooms continues in a moment with brooke baldwin after this quick break. if you missed the president's comments, she will replay them for you. we'll be right back. and this easy to download right to your phone. so it can be almost anything.. like a boarding pass. or do almost anything.. like pay for your coffee. the app store. just one more thing that makes an iphone an iphone.

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