pat. still a mother today in her 70s. she and my wife get more worked up about the stuff you saw earlier than i do. i figure it's pa part of the job. but they take it to heart. >> pretty good preparation for the white house isn't it if you do decide to run? you need to have a pretty thick skin. >> any job in politics. you're right. as you mentioned before, sadly, it's gone beyond just having a passionate debate about things. in the end people make it so polarizing and intense. and we just try to get things done. you need to have a thick skin. >> governor, it's been a pleasure. thank you very much. >> it's great to talk with you. >> nice to meet you. governor scott walker. that's all for us tonight. "ac 360" starts right now. piers, thanks very much. good evening, everyone. it is 10:00 p.m. here on the east coast. breaking news tonight. hurricane irene is not through with us yet. new mandatory evacuation under way tonight in northern new jersey from flooding. look at these pictures. local rivers still rising swamping neighborhoods, turning

other neighborhoods into islands where the only way out is by chopper or boat. and some folks in some areas in vermont are frankly stranded and have been since the storm on sunday. here in patterson, new jersey on some streets the passaic river is 18 feet deep. they're been evacuating people from here all day. just down the river in walling ton borough evacuation orders went out two hours ago, 6:00 p.m. eastern time. rescuers have been busy pumming 34 people to safety in patterson, new jersey. 14 kids among them, three dogs. people stayed thinking the worst was over, not knowing the rivers were still rising. even in a place where you'd expect water they've never seen anything like this before. look at these images. this is little falls, new jersey. looks more like niagara falls there's so much storm water flowing through there right now. in vermont where getting around is always tough, it's now almost impossible. hundreds of stretches of roads have been washed away. the national guard is bringing in supplies in some of the hardest-hit areas.

in addition nearly 3 million homes are still without power. coming up you're going to hear from a man who just got married on sunday. his entire wedding party is stranded right now in a small town in vermont. they can't get out because none of the roads are open. upwards of 43 fatalities and officials keep saying is it is not over yet. mary snow joins us from liver falls, new jersey. mary, these pictures of the amount of volume of water is just incredible. does it seem like it's getting worse in some parts of new jersey? >> reporter: you know, it really is incredible. we wanted to show you, too, this is what little falls, the passaic river, little falls looks like right now. this raging water, if you can believe it, this is an improvement from what it was. and we're told last night that as furious as thwart is right now that it was raging even more last night and that there was much more water. the passaic river crested earlier today in this town and others around it.

so some water is receding. you wouldn't know to look at the passaic river tonight in little falls. i was talking to some county officials and they're saying the water is receding that it could take until the weekend in some of these towns before the water really clears out. >> and we've seen evacuations now. have folks been in real danger? >> you know, they have. and we witnessed a couple of evacuations today. we were in patterson, new jersey a few miles away from here. really the danger was that what looked like a few inches of water quickly turned to a few feet of water. and then add the river currents to it. we saw one man and his son having to be evacuated. basically what happened is they went back to their home to inspect the damage, and rescue workers say they were just swept away by the current. and they wound up clinging to a log until rescue workers could come in a boat to get them out of there. >> mandatory evacuations in some areas just announced tonight in

the last couple hours. mary, thanks very much for the reporting. let's take you now to vermont where one of our producers was talking about taking her family to be out of irene's way. didn't work out that way. she stayed in new york and it's a good thing she did. parts of vermont were literally cut off from the rest world when roads collapsed and bridges were washed away. a couple were in vermont getting married. they are still in pitsfield. they and most of their wedding guests. i spoke with mark by phone a short time ago. >> mark, you went up to vermont for your wedding on saturday. everything was fine until irene hit. what happened? >> well, we had a beautiful wedding day. it was our dream wedding. we wanted a rustic wedding. we love vermont. we came up here to pittsfield and had such a great wedding. but sunday we were having brunch with our friends and family, and all of a sudden the storm hit. everyone that came to my wedding

thought they were getting out of new york and avoiding the storms. and they were thinking before it, this is awesome. and then the storm barely touched new york and came to us. >> there's only a couple hundred people who live in pittsfield. obviously they a lot of their homes are gone, their businesses are gone. i mean, do you guys have enough food, water, medical supplies? are people in the town or your party okay? >> we're in need of medical supplies. we have food and we have drinkable water. there's no running water because there's no power. and all the water is run on electric pumps. but the only thing is that it depends on how long we're here. they have limited resources. and we have about 60 people here that are putting a little bit of a drain on their limited sources. >> i'm looking at pictures. it looks like one road is completely cut off. basically the roads are just

impassable out of town? >> yeah. there's several bridges down on route 100. there's a road that just caved in. there's several houses in town that we watched floating. it's been scary. it's been equally amazing how supportive and cooperative people have been up here, though. everybody's getting together, everybody's working together, eating together, making sure that people are safe. we've been sending people up into the back housing areas where elderly folk live and make sure that they get water. >> what kind of medical supplies do people need? >> the stuff that i've heard that's most urgent is specific high blood pressure med since. there's a couple of people with heart conditions that are urgently looking for medicine and getting real nervous. >> well, let's hope the national guard or some folks are able to chopper in with those supplies. mark, i appreciate you being

with us. give my best to your wife and all the wedding party and everybody in town. we wish you the best. we'll continue to check in. >> thanks so much, anderson. >> after being stuck there with your whole wedding party. between the national guard, national hurricane center, homeland security and fee marks the federal response to irene has been massive just as it is in every big natural disaster. what if it weren't that way? my next guest has some ideas on that and they've been causing talk and controversy. ron paul says if elected he'd do away with fema. >> fema is not a good friend of most people in texas because all they do is come in and tell you what to do and can't do. you can't get into your houses. they hinder the local people. and they hinder volunteers from going in. so there's no magic about fema. and more people are starting to recognize that because they are a great contributor to deficit financing and quite frankly they don't have a penny in the bank. >> congressman ron paul, presidential candidate ron paul joins us. thanks for meeting with us, sir.

you say we don't need fema. why? >> well, we've only had it since 1979. they don't have a very good record. i mean, these natural disasters are very, very dangerous. so i don't understand why we'd turn it over to a federal bureaucracy. as a whole they don't do a good job but fema has the worst reputation of almost any of them. and i live on the gulf coast and i've had the same position all the time. we've had hurricanes and disasters. and i get so many calls. i have had more calls on fema being upset with fema than all other agencies put together. when we had katrina going into new orleans, they needed ice. so fema ordered ice from the northeast. and they ordered 211 million pounds of ice. it traveled for two weeks. and they finally ended up in nebraska. and they never got it. but that's a typical way of how fema works. so if you want efficiency, why

don't we look at how things were handled before we had fema. now it's the department of -- homeland security. they don't have a good record. go ahead. i do have another bigger gripe. >> let me just say, i reported extensively on the failings of fema during katrina, the trailers, the ice. but i mean, they also had body recovery teams on the ground very quickly before other people. and that was a fema response. i mean, they do have expertise in some areas that some states don't. i mean, if you'd left everything up to louisiana officials during katrina, probably more people would have died. >> well, that remains to be seen. there's no proof of that. >> louisiana officials certainly were not up to the task. >> well, the thing of it is, you create more hazard by the government by saying, you pay this and the government will be there. they'll always be there to take care of you and pay your bills. well, they're broke. they can't pay their bills. but the worst part is an economic consequence of saying,

well, i can't afford my insurance. these are usually -- a lot of them are middle class people have their beach houses. and they don't -- they can't get their insurance because it's costly. so the government guarantees it. so they give a reason for people to do dumb things. they build in the places that the market says don't build here. it's too dangerous. then there's floods and all these problems. then when katrina hit, some of the guard units, you know, around the country that could have been helpful, they were over fighting wars in the middle east. so it's such a gross distortion. things weren't as bad as they pretended to be. before 1979 without fema, it wasn't a disaster. go and show me where there was a much worse care before fema. and i don't think you can give me any of those -- any of that indication. >> you talked about going back to the 1900s way before something like fema was around. but in gal vas ton, i think part of your district, it was fema

who rebuilt it. they needed fema to -- i mean, i'm sorry. there wasn't a sea wall in galveston before the storm. and they needed to rebuild because locals there decided that it was just too extensive for them to cover all of that on their own using local funds. and because they didn't, 6,000 people died in that storm. i mean, if fema were abolished wouldn't you be setting a stage for life or death decisions or gambles in poor areas of the country? >> no. my point wasn't -- i pointed out in 1900 galveston which is in my district, they survived without fema and they did rebuild the city. and it was mostly local funds. there was probably some state funds in it and that's when the sea wall was built. >> there wasn't a sea wall because they decided to gamble because it was too expensive. if you had a federal government that was involved wouldn't that be -- >> anderson, wait a minute. the sea wall was built shortly thereafter. fema didn't build the sea wall in 1979.

that's been around for a long, long time. you didn't need fema to build it. and just think of the management of all the levies in the country. now they're starting to study even the levees on the river are probably making the floods worse. >> so you're saying there should be no federal -- >> they were all built by the federal government and they failed so the federal government had a lot of responsibility for the creation of the mess in new orleans. >> so you don't think there's any role for the federal government in disaster response? or do you? >> rescue operations, i think so. and as a matter of fact, my approach, i think, was a very modest and reasonable approach when they came for funds, even today or back in when we got hit in galveston. i said, i'll vote for the funds, but you got to cut it. we're broke. the economic condition of this country is dire. so you cut $2 billion from overseas, put $1 billion against

the deficit, put $1 billion into helping the people that we taught to be dependent on the federal government. so i think that's very reasonable. but to say, oh, it's analysts. the government will take care of us and we're broke and we're in the midst of this economic crisis which is going to get a lot worse and not be concerned about it and say, oh, well, the people need it. well, i mean, from the start of fema being involved and taking over land control and taking over these measures, they aren't very efficient. they're very inefficient. they give no-bid contracts. big corporations make a lot of money on this. they would have been better off in katrina if they had just written a check to everybody and not gotten involved in all the mess that they did. they handed out checks to people that didn't even live there. i don't know how anybody could defend the inefficiency of what went on with katrina. and that really hasn't changed. it's part of the department of homeland security. all you have to do is look at the t.s.a.

that's another favori bureaucray that people don't like, either. >> just asaid the syrian government is denying that they're murdering their own people. they've denied they're killing children despited videos we've seen. they deny and deny and deny. they deny they're keeping the rest of the world from seeing the truth. new reporting on what a u.n. mission to syria saw, what they uncovered and what they have to say about their government hosts. remember, the syrian government promised us right here, the syrian ambassador to the u.n. said the u.n. can travel anywhere they want in syria. did they let that happen? we'll find out in a moment and later, crime and punishment, new developments out of aruba in the disappearance of the american woman robyn gardner. how her traveling companion looked and acted the day she disappeared. first let's check in with isha sesay. new information about the health of self-proclaimed polygamist leader warren jeffs. seen shockingly frail in this o

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2200 men, women and children is how many people human rights watchers estimate have been killed in the last several months by syria's dictatorship.

officials in syria blame muslim extremists, roving criminals and outsiders. they die my killing children. what you're about to see we need to warn you is revotering. even after we blurt out portions of it. shows you a young boy shot in the head. claims to be from the city of dara just today. human rights advocates say at least seven people were kill today on the streets of syria, most of them in dara where the upadvising began. at least two dozen killed since the week began. today is the end of ramadan. instead of celebrating, though, syrians are standing up in mass demonstrations. look at the size of this one today in hams. you can see a wave of humanity. people making themselves heard, protesting peacefully. sadly here and other cities across syria, their cries for freedom are being met with gunfire.

[ gunfire ] >> this is how syrian security forces handle dissent, protests. we've seen it again and again. you've seen children gunned down. some like this child, barely a toddler just two years old. you've seen rescuers shot at and ambulances fired upon. and over and over and over again you've also seen syrian officials deny responsibility. watch what the syrian ambassador to the united nations said on this program when i asked him about it just a week and a half ago. >> i mean, how can children be targeted and then returned to their parents? or do you deny that's happening? >> absolutely. children are not targeted by the police, neither by the army. but let me comment on what you have just said. the report of the high commissioner is unfounded and biassed. she didn't reflect any of my government's points of view in her report. she didn't even go to syria.

she just relied on reports coming from syrian refugees in south turkey. >> sir, you yourself said no international commission needed to come to syria or was allowed to come to syria because your government was perfectly capable of being transparent and doing your own investigations. that does not seem to be true. >> absolutely. i'm sticking to my words. we are not talking about the commission coming from geneva. we have aloud after the presidential statement adopted by security council we have allowed mission, humanitarian mission from ocha. >> syria's ambassador to the united nations on this program. after not allowing human rights delegation into syria. despite whatever he says and whatever his fancy suit and all his talk, he did not allow -- they did not allow -- the government there did not allow a delegation back into syria. then the assad regime reluctantly allowed a humanitarian russell missi humanitarian mission to visit. we got a statement" while

there's no country-wide humanitarian crisis, basically there's enough food and water for syrians "officials limited the mission's ability to fully and independently assess the situation. however, the people it was able to talk to in areas of previous and ongoing unrest said they felt extremely intimidated and under constant threat. this is what happened in hams just moments after they left. [ gunfire ] >> so what happened predictably is government forces opened fire and people died. right after the u.n. left. now, as always these videos come via the internet. they're posted by human rights groups and syrian dissidents. we can't independently verify them. we should point out we're not permitted into syria to see for ourselves. the ambassador lied again saying of course journalists are welcome in and you can go anywhere, you can travel freely. that's not the case. we've had people there and they're not able to travel freely. they're not able to go around

without government minders. syrian officials deny responsibility for what seeing even as they deny they're stifling access to outside reporters and observers. >> you don't know all the faces of the story, anderson. >> because you're not allowing us in. you're not allowing reporter toss actually go to the front lines and see. this you're restricting reporters. so it's a little disingenuous to say you don't know the truth when you're not allowing the international community to seat truth. >> anderson, this is wrong, too. because we have aloud three delegations, big delegations of tourists and journalists and reporters to enter the country. >> oh, come on. you keep them in damascus or control them very carefully. >> we don't control anybody. we are there to protect them from armed groups. >> i went on to tell him i reported in syria years ago in damascus, five years ago, and i had a government minder who followed my every move and observed what i talked to. that was in a time when there wasn't allegedly these armed gangs as they keep saying. yet again that claim is contradicted by the u.n. mission. take a look at the q and a they

published with their statement. was the mission given free and independent access in answer, although the mission was permitted to visit any location requested it is doubtful that syria has fully complied with its assurances of providing free and unimpeded access". remember ambassador's claim that government minders are only there for protection? take a look at what happened when the american ambassador to syria went out on the streets of damascus. he was surrounded, harassed by a pro-assad mob. this video aired on a syrian tv station owned by assad in laws which heavily edited the footage and tried to paint him as leading an anti-government protest. takes a lot of editing to make even cheap propaganda. the rest of the video you've seen for months now we barely even edit for length. we think that its truth speaks plainly. joining us now is profess or ajani from stanford university. do you sense any real change? >> not at all. i think what's really

interesting in a way now, it's now for the opposition they have to think whether peaceful protests work. the debate now rages in syria among the of significance. do we stick to peaceful protests? and are we always being slaughtered by this regime? should we take up arms? and i think many of the wiser heads have prevailed. if they take up arms that's exactly what the killer regime wants. it would lure them into a test they cannot win. but syria has become a test of this notion of peaceful protest against the violent regime. >> and that's what we have seen and still stuns me the fact that these people like lambs to a sword are going every day on the street holding their heads with dignity and just talking and calling out and getting shot because of it. you say the regime is running out of money. >> if you take a look, even the head of the central bank in syria has come up with this very lame play on marie antoinette. he says, well, the syrian people should eat cake. they should eat brown bread. that is a lower quality bread and cheaper bread. they're running out of money.

there's even talk that the village lab tees who go around with clubs and beat people and kill them. >> they're dressed like civilians but have free rain from the regime to beat people. >> i think they mostly come from bashar's community. they're hoodlums. they've now begun to threaten that they will go on strike, they will not do the dirty deeds because they are running out of money and the regime is running out of money. and i think the syrian economy is on the ropes. if the europeans go through with the ban on the importation of syrian oil, i think the regime will have a real moment of reckoning. >> even iran of all horrific regimes, iran which has been a stalwart ally of syria, they're starting to say you got to listen to your people. >> don't you love it? in fact if you really want an example of the moral bankruptcy of this killer regime, goons in power in damascus, two groups, not only iran. you're right, the iranians. called on bashar al assad to

respect the will of his people. it's amazing. and even hezbollah has gun to would have. bashar has violated the norms of his world. when you kill people who are coming out of prayer, when you ban people from prayer, when you attack mosques. they're already now beginning among many, many religious juryists in the region talk about the ill religious nature of bashar assad. he is a hair tick to many of them because of the contempt he's shown for all the norms of his country. >> often the mosque is the only time people are allowed to gather in groups. and it's after the mosques that often demonstrations break out. but we're seeing people being killed inside the mosques as soon as they come outside. >> right. and i think now there is another question which has offered itself. should the syrian opposition, should the syrian opposition invite foreign intervention? it's not they could dial a number and people would come. it sounds like nato is ready for another engagement. but the success of the libyan

opposition now has raised the question for the syrians. why not enlist foreign intervention? thus far they've been too proud. they thought they could do it on their own. but the question is going to arise before very long. >> and the other question then is would anybody respond internationally? >> that's exact actually it. a couple new developments out of libya tonight to tell you about. opposition forces say that upwards of 50,000 combatants and civilians have been killed in the uprising so far. the casualties could grow if gadhafi loyalists do not give up by saturday. that's the new deadline for areas still under loyalist control to surrender or face attack. those numbers we can't verify. in algeria, sources say gadhafi's daughter has given birth. the baby's gender so far undisclosed. coming up tonight, crime and punishment, the latest in the search for the the american woman lob bin gardner missing in aruba for four weeks now. the man in custody suspect in her disappearance could be released soon even as more startling details come to light about his behavior on the day she disappeared.

we'll have the latest from marty savidge in aruba tonight and the debate over whether accused gunman jared loughner could be forced to take anti-psychotic medication. a new hearing and reports about loughner's behavior in prison. we'll talk about that coming up. [ doorbell rings ] hello there. i'm here to pick up helen. ah. mom? he's here. nice wheels. oh, thanks. keeps me young. hello there, handsome. your dinner's in the microwave, dear. ♪ where do you want to go? just drive. [ engine revs, tires screech ]

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crime and punishment tonight, as the search for an american woman missing in aruba now enters a fourth week, there are new details about the man being held in connection with

her disappearance. 35-year-old robyn gardner was last seen four weeks ago today at a bar in aruba with gary year dawn know. tonight we're getting new reports about overdawn know's appearance on the day he says she got carried out to sea while snorkeling. abc says according to a police report giordano asked three people for help that day. witnesses say he was covered in sweat but was very calm and he had a cut on his throat. martin savidge has been covering all the twists and turns from the story since the beginning. he joins us live from aruba. abc news is reporting this information about giordano's throat having some sort of a cut on it. what have they found out? >> reporter: well, this is the first i've heard of that. and i've talked to a lot of witnesses. i've talked to a lot of people and i've read the police reports. i have to point out that during the interrogation of gary giordano authorities did ask him do you have any wounds on you? he said he had a couple of scratches on his legs and he

showed it to them. regarding a cut on the neck, you can take a look for yourself. there's his mug shot that was released. that was taken just a couple of days after the alleged drowning. and if you look at it quite clearly he's got a t-shirt, his neck is exposed. i don't see any mark there. as far as the clothing, wet, dry. i heard varying accounts. so many people said it was his bathing suit that was wet but he had dry socks and shoes on. if he had rushed out of the water and rushing for help who stops to put socks and shoes on? but this shows you you get a lot of different accounts from eyewitnesses and they don't always jibe. that's a real problem for authorities to work through. >> he's been in custody since this disappearance, but he could actually be released soon, is that right? >> reporter: right. and you talk to legal experts on the island and they'll give you two trains of thoughts. one is that judge will have to release him tomorrow because based upon the evidence that's been brought out so far, they can't possibly warrant holding him for any longer than they

already have. there's the other side that sides with the prosecution and says, no, there's a lot more that needs to be learned. this is a serious crime. and a lot of the investigation has to be done in the u.s. which the arubans can't do. they need the fbi. and that takes time. thereby they need more time. but the reality is it's up to the a judge, and the judge could give them 60 days or say i'm give you 30 days or say no, gary giordano gets to walk. we really don't know tonight which way it's going to go. >> and there's also a rumor going around i heard in aruba that gardner is still alive but disappeared as part of an insurance scam that she and giordano planned. are authorities putting any credence to those rumors? >> reporter: they won't say so publicly. but here's the way that thinking goes. she disappears, allegedly drowns in an area where everybody else who has drowned has floated back to the surface. she hasn't. if she was done in somehow and her body disposed of on land nature would have give than away by now. birds circling. animals would have found it. they've searched the area.

her body isn't here people say. if she's not here her body isn't on the island. they extrapolate and say she must have been part of perhaps an insurance fraud as you point out. they say venezuela is only 18 miles away. you make it there you can disappear quickly. they point out she lost her job, she was pretty much separated from her family. maybe she wanted to start a new life with a new name with $1.5 million of insurance money. but is that theory or is it just fantasy in maybe it's wishful thinking on the part of the island that they don't want to be blamed again for the death of another american. >> it seems hard to believe she'd make it to venezuela. anyway, obviously just a lot of rumors floating around in a case like this. marty, appreciate the reporting just ahead, new details what happened with gabrielle giffords's accuser, the shooter jared lee loughner was taken off his medication for schizophrenia with one day to go, august is the deadliest month yet for u.s. forces in afghanistan. 66 american troop have died,

including 30 who were killed when the helicopter was shot down by insurgents. a 360 follow, a top federal official who oversaw a botched sting that allowed thousands of assault-type weapons to be sold illegally is being reassigned to a lesser port. -- kenneth melson will be replaced as acting director of the atf tomorrow a faulty weld should have been caught by officials caused the natural gas explosion in san francisco last year. a report slams the pipeline's owner, pacific gas and electric, for "a litany of failures". and actress darrel hannah was arrested outside the white house while protesting plans for an oil pipeline expansion. hannah and roughly 100 other people were taking part in a sit in were taken into custody when they refused to move. so there you have it. in case you've been wondering

what she's been doing all this time. >> there you go. time now for the shot. if you're not quite sure what dog tired looks like, this video from youtube should clear things up. meet ziggy the snoring sharpei. [ snoring sounds ] >> oh, very cute. >> that makes me think of when people are on planes and they're falling asleep? >> i hate that on the plane? >> that nodding thing? because the seats don't go back far enough? i like this one airline, i can't remember which one it is that, has like the seats -- the pillows -- >> like shields? >> like a shield so your head has something to go against. i hate it when they don't. it's the most disorienting sleep. >> it's very disorienting. but i'm going to see your senatoring sharpei and raise

you -- it's a favorite. you know what's coming. that singing husky mishka. >> i love you. >> i love you. >> i love you. >> i love you. >> i don't know why that still makes me laugh. we've seen it how many times? >> i love you. >> i love you too, anderson. >> thank you. up next, new developments in the battle over forcibly medicating jared loughner. gabrielle giffords's accused shooter. what loughner did inside his cell when prison doctors were ordered to stop his medication. we'll tell you about that plus the latest on what landed polygamist secretary leader and convicted child rapist warren jeffs in the hospital and set off reports he may have been in a coma. ah. mom? he's here. nice wheels. oh, thanks. keeps me young. hello there, handsome. your dinner's in the microwave, dear. ♪ where do you want to go?

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tonight in crime and punishment, new developments in the legal battle over forcibly medicating this man, jared loughner, so he can stand trial in the mass shooting that killed six people and wounded 13 others outside an arizona shopping center where congresswoman gabrielle giffords was meeting with constituents. that's how he looked before. now, giffords has made progress, remarkable progress since she was shot in the head at point blank range in january. you remember this image earlier they're this month. she returned to the house fluorescent for the first time since the attack to vote on that debt ceiling bill. her staff said she still has a long way to go in her recovery. loughner has been diagnosed with schizophrenia and is being held in a prison hospital in missouri. his lawyers have been fighting to stop prison doctors from forcibly medicating him.

today an appeals court in san francisco heard oral arguments in the case. meantime federal authorities have asked for more time to try to make loughner competent to stand trial. the district judge has ruled that for now prison doctors can keep medicating loughner because of what happened when they stopped the treatment. prosecutors say that without anti-psychotic medications loughner had screaming and crying fits lasting for hours, that he paced his cell endlessly, physically harmed himself and claimed a radio had inserted thoughts into his head. he also said he wanted to die. he's been judge add danger to himself and others. joining me now to talk about it all, senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin and criminal defense attorney mark garragos. >> just criminal. >> sorry about the stumble. >> that's okay. >> so jeffrey, back in july, the reason his lawyers are fighting him being medicated is that they're essentially saying, you're just medicating him so that he'll be competent to stand trial and possibly face the death penalty. >> they're basically saying

you're fattening him up for the slaughter. there is no doubt here that he did the shooting. so their only defense is some sort of mental capacity insanity defense. and basically, the crazier he is, the longer they can delay this trial, the more it can be about his obviously very damaged state. the better it is for the defense. the prosecution has the right to give him medication so that he's not a danger to himself or others. and that's what they say they're doing. >> but mark, his defense attorneys are essentially saying, well, look, these guys are just trying to make an end run. they're claiming he's been a danger to himself or others as a way of not having to go through having representation, going through official court proceedings in order to medicate him. >> yeah. and it's exactly what they're doing. both sides are a little disingenuous here. the prosecution and the prison authorities are arguing that he's a danger to himself.

you know what that danger is? they're saying because he's constantly pacing he's getting blisters on his feet. i mean, that tells you about the essence of how he's a danger to himself. and jeff is spot on. the defense wants to delay this because they can then establish i think something that is clearly obvious that this guy is short of a full deck. so i think part of the irony of this and what's so frustrating about this is that we're talking about forcibly medicating somebody who is obviously damaged goods in order that we can then house him or kill him later on. to some degree that just kind of puts it all in perspective from my standpoint. i just think the whole thing is the height of ludicrous. >> jeff, is it all right to have somebody if he is in fact schizophrenic, is it the kind thing to do to have this guy just acting out in prison? >> no. and that's where i think mark is a little off. i mean, you do have to medicate

him somewhat. even in prison, prisoners cannot have untreated mental illness. and that is part of how we house people in prison. >> you can also make the argument if he has shot somebody which he hasn't been convicted of, but if in fact he did shoot these people, he dud have the potential to be a danger. >> right. that's the other area i would disagree with mark. it is important that he be housed that, he be kept away from other people. this guy is obviously a danger to other people. he's probably also a danger to himself. i mean, how this plays out down the line i'm not sure. but the one thing that is certain is he's never getting out of custody. whether it's a mental hospital or a prison or perhaps an execution. but he's not going anywhere, nor should he. >> mark, you've had some experience with this judge i understand. what do you expect him to do here? >> i think he's going to order that he's forcibly medicated. where i would take issue with jeff is, look, what happens in

prisons all over this country every day is that prisoners are put into solitary confinement, they're put into the hole. i can't think of anything that will affect your mental health quicker or more easily than putting somebody in the hole and doing the whole sensory deprivation thing. we're quite medieval when it comes to this. nobody here, let's disabuse people of this idea, this fantasy that somehow we're concerned about his mental health. nobody's concerned about his mental health. the prosecutors are concerned with getting him in there and getting a conviction. and jeff, in retort to that, he's never going anywhere, i remember 20 some odd years ago people saying the exact same thing about hinge about hinckley, the gentleman convicted, ngi for shooting president reagan. so you never know. there's situations here that i think are a lot more nuanced. and there's really a dance going on between the prosecution and the defense that really is not what is being said. >> you're saying the prosecution

is being disingenerous. isn't the defense being disingenerous? don't they have an interest in making loughner look as insane as possible when he stands trial? >> that's exactly what i was saying before. i think both sides here are doing a dance where we're not really getting at what the real motivation is here. i don't think that -- it's fine to argue whatever they're argue in the briefs, the defense said it's a due process violation, the prosecution, that we're trying to save them from harming themselves. that's really not what's going on here. what's really going on here is the defense wants to show that he's clearly what he is, crazy, and the longer it goes on the better. and the prosecution wants to get him in and get a conviction. >> the way these cases usually end is the judges, the lawyers say, look, we're going to just defer to the doctors in prison. let them do what they want. we're not going to tell the doctors how to do their job. and they want to medicate him, so chances are he'll still be medicated. >> mark garregos, thanks very much. jeff toobin as well up next, new tropical storm on the move in the atlantic

tonight. the verge of becoming a hurricane. we'll tell you where it is. later, the absurdity of hurricane duty especially when you cross paths with naked folks. we'll explain that ahead. we're going to add them to the ridiculist when we continue. every time a local business opens its doors or creates another laptop bag

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hi, i'm isha sesay. here's a 360 news and business bulletin. tropical storm katia is gaining strength and expected to become a hurricane late tomorrow or early thursday.

the storm is about 750 miles west of the cape verde islands and is packing maximum sustained winds of 60 miles per hour. two survivors of the casino fire in mexico say when gunmen stormed the building they told them, we're going to kill all of you, before shooting at gamblers and setting the building on fire. 52 people were killed in the attack. police say the five drug cartel suspects in custody told them the casino owners didn't meet their ex portion demands texas prison officials say polygamist leader and child rapist warren jeffs remains in critical condition at a hospital but he's not in a coma and is expected to recover. jeffs was fasting when he fell ill, and prison officials say he had "bigger issues that needed medical attention". citing inmate privacy rules, they won't elaborate further and president obama says he'll unveil his new plan to create more jobs next week. he made the announcement today at the american legion convention. the president also called on congress to break the gridlock

over deficit reduction to get the economy moving. now back to anderson. >> isha, thanks very much. hurricane irene knocked out power, downed trees, swept one guy right onto the ridiculist. let's just say chad myers did not tell us there was such a height chance of streaking. ♪ [ male announcer ] they'll see you...before you see them. cops are cracking down on drinking and riding. drive sober, or get pulled over. before i started taking abilify, i was taking an antidepressant alone. most days i could put on a brave face and muddle through.

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time now for the ridiculist. tonight we're adding someone we can only call the naked guy on the news. now, as someone who's covered my fair share of hurricanes, i can

tell you it can be pretty challenging. there's nothing quite like willingly standing outside when you really should be inside, braving the gale force winds, sometimes hanging onto whatever you can hang onto so you don't get swept away. there's punishing rain and wind. i know we all look like idiots. you never know when some other idiot is going to run by and pull his pants down on television. a reporter on the weather channel learned that this weekend reporting on hurricane irene live from virginia beach suddenly out of nowhere there was also a full moon. take a look. >> one thing that has not decreased that we like to see is the traffic. no shortage of incredible -- well, i'll by the my tongue -- people who have been coming out. we're talking about dos of people who have walked by me up to be honest i'm pretty much speechless. >> i went believe he also went on to show he had been tackled. i know how that reporter feels. when i was in lower manhattan sunday covering irene there were actually some guys walking around in nothing but their

underwear and cowboy boots and cowboy hats who were almost live on cnn. thankfully they were courteous enough to wait to walk by the camera until i was finished being on air. i thank them for that. but if a fool wants to get on live tv he's going to get on live tv. all you can hope is that they're wearing clothes. so for that i thank you guy who ran into my shot during hurricane ike. >> we just showed you some of that discussion with charlie gibson, raising some eyebrows tonight. >> dude. i thank you to the guy in the chicken suit. >> we are live throughout the next two hours when laer larry king takes is live. then live for another hour. much more coverage of hurricane ike. there's a lot of people, in houston a couple of bars are still open. >> yeah. i think we can believe that a couple of bafrs were still open. i think maybe the strong winds just sweep these people off their bar stools out in front of the cameras. sometimes during a heavy snowstorm the