prepared to change their diet, exercise more, could actually reverse a lot of their blockage. >> heart disease could be as rare as malaria today if we put into practice what we already know. >> it's possible to keep everybody from having a heart attack with education, with knowledge, with information. now the question becomes are people going to do this? >> reporter: i hope i have given you food for thought today. if this makes you want to overhaul your diet, especially if you are a heart patient, talk to your doctor. look, we have a long way to go in this country. i hope you will join me. together we can work for the last heart attack. i'm dr. sanjay gupta. thanks for watching. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight, strong men with a

strong opinions. you see the country tanking again? >> is this coming to praying? >> again? >> if it helps do more, because you are telling me that people are not praying enough? >> and remember this -- >> i have been unfaithful to my wife. i have developed a relationship which started out as a dear, dear friend from argentina. >> that was the beginning of a long two years for mark sanford, disgrace and divorce and the end of any hope for the white house. tonight, mark sanford, the former governor of south carolina inside of his private life today. >> over the kous course of my l there needed to be some healing there. >> and the potential come back, this is "piers morgan, tonight."

the outspoken half of the larger act of pen and teller "god, no!" signs you are an atheist and other pendulum tales. >> "god, no." >> i should have had the book on tape and you should have released the title. >> here is the thing about you, i read the little intro here, you may already be an atheist, if god, however you perceive him, her, it, as you say, told you the kill your child, would you do it? if you answer no, then in my book, you are an atheist. there is in doubt in your mind, love and morality are your faith. that is strong stuff. even by your standards. >> well, the point is always to be an atheist, i think that you have to be a tremendous optimist. and i think that the way to turn

someone to an atheist is to just flood them with love. i had a beautiful -- >> and you used to be a tremendous pessimist, because many atheists declare my colors here, i believe in god and i was reared an irish-catholic boy. >> there is no hope for you. >> i had spiritual education from nuns and so i'm a believer. >> i love it when you call them the monkees. i loved it. >> and here is the things i have always had a belief about the atheists that my irritation with atheists is that their belief is a non-belief. and when you write a book about it, you are basically writing a whole book telling a bunch of people who have a genuine sincere faith in something that you don't believe what i believe in. and you don't believe in something to rival it from what i can gather, but you just don't believe in their belief. it is a negative thing, isn't it? >> i don't believe that is true. i don't find it negative at all. that is one of the points of this. one of the important things when people come up to me about

atheism, and they do, is that they talk about the bitterness and the having all of the answers and the hubris of thinking that we can know everything. >> you talk about alternatives being love, family, spiritual things. >> that is not spiritual. that is real. >> well, most people who believe in god also believe in love and family and all of the things that you offer as some kind of strange alternative. >> absolutely. >> by the way, i say this to you as a huge fan of you as a magician. you have been on "america's got talent" and i urge everyone to go see you, but when it comes to god, you anger me. >> do i really? >> yes, because i believe it is a deliberately provocative stance that you take and it is designed to annoy and agitate people who have a sincere belief. >> i don't believe so. you won't find anywhere in this book any attacks on people. i don't know if you have seen the book of mormon of matt stone

and trey parker which they describe as a love letter to religion from an atheist. and that's one of the things that matt said about it, and a lot of the talking, and i have been talking to matt and trey for years about this, and when they did the richard dawkins episode of "south park" one of the things that we talked about was that idea of bitterness and the y of the anger that comes from that. i am a huge fan of proselytizing and a huge fan of speaking your mind, but the only way that we can share the universe, the only way that we can share humanity is by talking very strongly about what we believe. >> you are the chief atheist out there. how did you get here? how did we get here? >> well, let me ask you, how did we get here? >> i believe in this superior being, a god. >> of course. >> and therefore the questions which always baffle atheists, the hard reality of life, i

believe there is something greater out there. there is a greater entity which is a spiritual being that allows comprehension on a scale that we could never understand. >> exactly, but the comprehension -- >> but you don't believe it. so what do you believe happened? >> if it is comprehension on a scale that we can't possibly understand, then aren't you done? why do you need to label that as something that is god or something? >> because i have never heard an atheist explain to me -- >> why is there a humility to say we don't know. >> i have never heard an atheist say how did we get here and what happens at the end of our lives? >> well, the answer to saying we can't understand it is not an answer. >> right. so how do you think that we got here? >> i don't know. >> what do you think happens when we die? >> nothing. there is no evidence at all. >> where do you go? >> where do you go? >> i mean when you die. you must be terrified of death? >> not at all. not even slightly. how scared are you of 1890.

does 1890 terrify you? >> 1890? >> you weren't alive then, right? >> no. >> you weren't alive and you didn't exist in any way and is that a horror to you? >> no. >> so why is 2090 any worse than that? >> i'm not horrified of dying, because i believe you go on to a celestial place that is beautiful and for you, atheist, you must be miserable. >> and how do you know that place is there? >> because i come back to the issue of creation, and where do yait yists -- >> well, all you have answered with the issue of creation is that you have answered, the answer to my answer is that i don't know, and your answer is, something beyond comprehension. aren't those the same answer? >> you cannot write a book basically telling a bunch of people around the world, billions of people, that ywho b in god, that you are wrong. you don't have any other answers. >> well, you are.

>> and however, there are many, many christians who are watching this who find it offensive that you would write a book called "god, no!" and no, i don't have any explanation for anything, but you are not barking mad. >> and you say the same thing and i never said i am barking mad, and that is kind of english. >> we are a bit crazy though, a bit nuts? >> no, not at all. one of the things that is so important to me and maybe you are wrong about americans here. i did a show called "b.s." for eight years where i said this stuff that was very, very provocative, and when i pitched this show to showtime, i say with embarrassment that i pitched it kind of cynically. i pitched it saying, you know, that the people will hate us, and it will drive the whole thing, but what i found out is that when we would do shows that were, that were strongly atheist, we would get hundreds of letters from christians saying, it is nice that people

are being passionate and saying what they believe from their heart. >> that is my point. i have a spiritual and religious belief -- >> i don't believe it is a belief. >> and the same way with prayer and faith, and -- it is a belief. you believe in god. your belief is a non-belief. it is an anti-belief. you don't have a belief. you just don't believe that what i believe is right. >> let me just ask you. do you believe in thor? >> thor? >> yeah, thor. >> no, because that is not the type of god they believe in. >> but you are an atheist on every single god except for the one that you happen to be taught when you were a child. on everything else, you are an atheist. everything that you believe is a negation of every other god that ever existed. >> it is interesting that you compare thor to god. >> why? >> because it is not the same thing and you know it, and you are being deliberately perverse. >> okay. pick any god. >> i think that a soccer player

henry therrie is god -- >> well, you are saying that god of catholics and protestants are all the same god, but different rules? >> i i have a respect for anybody from any religion who has a spiritual and religious conviction and belief of any god entity in their lives. >> are you as active as garth brooks or -- it is a relative term. >> probably not as active as garth brooks. >> so you will have people on every spectrum and the most important part of this is that i believe that proselytizing is good. i love the jehovah witnesses saying what they believe. if you believe in your god, tell people about it. pray for me, and explain it to me. >> what if you were dying, hypothetically. >> i am dying, and so are you. >> you but a hypothetical in

here, and i can be horrendous to you. say you have a week to live -- >> wait, do you know this? because i have other stuff to do. you are not packing are you? because i mean, sometimes people like you pull a gun and shoot you in the face. you are dying, bang, i'm dead. >> i can reassure you, i am not about to shoot you. >> you are not packed. >> no. you have a week to live and you have two young children. >> yes, i do. >> and you need to explain to them what is going to happen to daddy, and what do you say? tough to comfort them in this terrible time? >> i don't think that to comfort them i lie to them, and i don't think that i have the immodesty to say that i know. i say that they will miss me and hope they will remember me. i have lost my mom, my dad, and my sister and the love will live on as long as i do. there is not a second in my life that i will not love my mom, my dad, my sister and everybody that i have loved that has died. >> we will take a short break

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so, look, you live in las vegas. >> yes. >> sin city. and you have never touched alcohol. >> i believe touching it might be wrong. >> but you don't drink it? >> no. >> you don't do drugs? >> i don't drink caffeine.

>> you don't fornicate with ladies of the night? >> although my wife exists in the night. >> you don't gamble? >> when i say i haven't drank, i mean it, but when i say i haven't gambled, that is not true, because i have put $5 or $10 in the slot machine. >> and why would you live in las vegas? >> because there is nothing more than i like than my show and in new york we had two broadway runs that were successfulf and two off broadway are successiful, and that is pushing your luck. so in las vegas, we have a penn and teller theater, and we were told that a cheap theater in some ways, but las vegas can seem that way, but i park very close to my dressing room. i don't even walk through a casino and i walk to my dressing room and do the show, and i'm also very much in favor of people living their lives in different ways than i do. >> so other people do.

>> so the fact that other people drink does not bother me. >> when you see the state of the economy so completely tanking and the politicians squabbling like little children, and no one seems to really have an answer to how to get out of this, you are a successful business guy. >> it is going to come to praying again? >> well, praying does help. >> well, do more. do more. if it helps, do more. we haven't -- i mean, you are telling me that people are not praying enough. that's what's wrong? >> give me the yait yiatheist w how to get ouf economic strife? where has america gone wrong and what is the answer? >> i always soeem to think that the most important thing is individuals and the most important thing is diversity and the most important thing is to have someone like you, someone like me who disagree on a very important issue constantly talking, constantly working it out. i think that the problem is

maybe thinking that somebody above us, someone in power can take care of all of us, can fix everything. >> well, they should, because it is their job in government, isn't it? it is why you vote people, and why they get elected and run for office? >> i am not sure that is exactly the way i see it. >> you know, america has been revived in the past whether it is fdr or harry truman or john f. kennedy or bill clinton or ronald reagan and when you have had great recoveries from difficult times they have come from great leadership and government and ideas. >> well, that is not the way it feels to me is because when you wait for for a a decision to be from someone in power above you and you give up the personal responsibility you give up your own power, and that is where the danger comes from. >> and right now, small business people right now, they have absolutely no mechanism out

there to get the businesses going again. they just don't. it is not there. >> right. >> so what do you say to those people? how do they operate? and unless government -- >> for the g. to give them money? >> i think that the solution is to do a little bit of that, and the solution is to raise taxes and cut spending and do special incentivizing business people. >> and you think that not raising the taxes on the business people. >> well, get revenues from the higher income -- >> well, it is the middle-class to pay. you can't get the money are the rich, because even if you tax them 100% -- >> yes, i come from a quaint old fashioned view, you look after the poorest people in the community first, and they are the biggest problem in america right now. i don't worry about whether the middle-class is going to have two holidays or one, but i saw that there has been a 70% increase in families living off of the stam independence the last five years i think it was.

shocking statistics, and those are the people that i care about. >> and i assume that you are helping them. >> well, i'm talking about it. >> and you do give money? >> yes. i won't say i don't give the money directly to the people, because i don't know who they r but i can tell you yes. >> there is a place for clarity, and there is a place for compassion. >> this is not charity, is it? that is the wrong response it is not about you and me giving a handout, because it is about a system in america that is going horribly wrong, and there are six or seven americans in ten who are doing okay. >> well, that is six or seven people who can help. >> and you have seen -- >> yes, i believe so. >> on a mass scale? >> yes, kiva making microloans all over the world without any government force at all, and they have done huge things

overseas and working a bit in the usa. >> so if you were president, what would you do to get americans back to work? >> i think i would make the government much, much smaller. i think that i would give people more individual responsibility and give them more money back, and i don't have to worry about this, because me being president is as likely as your god being 100% right. exactly, precisely. >> we will take another break just to shut you up. >> just to shut me up? >> let's talk magic. >> just to shut me up! you asked me on your show. >> you don't need prayer. >> you asked me on here. you don't want to shut me up. get outta the car. get outta the car. ♪ are you ok? the... get in the car. get in the car! [ male announcer ] the epa estimated 42 mpg highway

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♪ penn and teller doing tricks ♪ with blood and guts ♪ penn and teller ♪ they will drive you nuts that was from your -- >> that is real horns.

>> that is from the penn and teller show from the hotel in vegas and i commend my viewers to go see them. your two kids are called zolt and penn, a multicrime fighter. >> yes, my wife's maiden name was zolt and my father-in-law had nothing but girls and he has one of the grandchildren -- >> moxie crime fighter? >> moxie, as you may not know, knowing from ourb wonderful country, but moxie is a brand name out of maine, a beverage that is one of the odd brand names that went into the dictionary not as coke meaning soda, but rather as meaning guts, gumption and so on. >> right sglcht a.

>> and my wife does not have a middle name and i have to explain why my wife is called crime fighter and my wife gets the blame for it. i said what is our daughter's middle name, and moxie gillette, and she said i don't want anything to do with i don't care anything. our piano player said in a novel you wrote named "sock" you have a character that says simply call me crime fighter, and why not crime fighter, and my wife said, i am married to you and i don't know your middle name, and middle names don't matter so we are going with crime fighter, and so her name is moxie gillette, and if push comes to shove, it is crime fighter. so it was a genius idea of my wife, because my thinking was that when she is 17 and pulled over by the police for whatever

she does, she is able to pull out our driver's license and say, my middle name is crime fighter, and we are on the same team. that is my thinking of my wife's genius, but my wife is smarter than that, because when moxie was 3, she was sitting in the back seat and my wife was speeding with the children in the car, and speeding a police officer pulled her over, and my wife said, you know who this is in the back seat? it is our daughter, and her middle name is crime fighter, and the police officer said, well, if she is fighting crime, i don't have to, and drive a little slower, so that middle name has gotten us out of one speeding ticket so far. >> let me talk about your other wife, teller. you have been partners for 35 yea years. >> longer than that actually. >> does it feel like a marriage to you? >> no. i think that the whole trick to having a partnership that lasts a long time is an awful lot of respect and very little after

fek shun. when i first started working with teller. >> you like him? >> there was no sort of cuddly feeling for him. it was strictly intellectual. it was essentially an e-mail before e-mail, but an e-mail-type relationship and i felt i did better stuff with teller than alone and he was never late for a meeting. i could put my life in his hands and i was safe, and the relationship was business and essentially two guys running a dry cleaning business. >> how do you get along now? >> wonderfully. i can't understand people who get more successful and them start arguing. when teller and i started out, we were carney trash. we were in the same car all day sharing hotel rooms at night, eating every meal together, and now we have separate houses, and separate friends, and it so ease is now, but the problem is -- >> do you socialize away from work? >> about twice a year, we go out

socially together. maybe see a movie or go to dinner. work is at least 10 hours a day. >> do you do all of the talking? >> no, no. teller was a high school latin teacher. >> so you are more garous -- >> much more than me. and the joke when we were rehearsing is that penn talks on stage and never talks off stage, and teller does not talk on stage and doesn't stop after the show. so before the show i sit over in the corner and read the paper. >> so if i could give you the power of prayer, and awarded it to you, what would you pray for? >> i would pray for, i think, more perfect knowledge. i would pray for information. >> you certainly need it. [ laughter ] >> you laugh. >> you try to be nice to a guy. >> actually, surprisingly good fun. >> surprisingly? i expected to have fun with you. why was it surprising?

>> good luck with the show, man. >> a pleasure. >> and coming up former south carolina governor mark sanford about his rise and fall and the affair with the argentinian sole matt. sole mate. m purina cat chow. delicious, real ingredients with no artificial flavors or preservatives. naturals from purina cat chow. share a better life.

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[ male announcer ] it's the at&t network... a network of possibilities... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. ♪ carolina governor mark sanford

mark sanford is a man who knows the republican party from the inside and he knows how fast things can change in politics. the former governor from south carolina was once talked about a possible presidential candidate. that is before his divorce and a departure from the governor's mansion. and now he has joined me again. i suppose that the obvious first question is why doing this interview? what would you hope to gain from this? >> i can't hammer nails for the rest of my life. i have been out to the farm that you were kind enough to come visit and you get to the point where as comfortable as that would be, it is time to begin speaking out again on issues that i have cared about for 20 years of my life. you don't invest 20 years of your life in politics if you don't really, really care. i care deeply and i'm very worried about the direction of

the country. i think that if we don't watch out, we could lose it. i think that benjamin franklin's words were i'm going to hand you a republic and you can keep it. this that we are in a precarious points that the people don't graspp or understand. >> in a way, you were the first leader of the tea party before it was formed into a proper revolutionary party, a when you see what has happened to america and the emergence of the tea party as a proper formidable political force, do you feel a twing of regret that you are not at the forefront of it? >> well, there is not a lot to gain from the would have been or could have been to life, but i know that there is an amazing fuel to tea party that people don't fully grasp. i think that a lot of people think it is about spending, but i think that it is about much, much deeper american values. one is fundamental angst about opportunity. it is -- the beauty of the american system is that my kids

are going to do better than that, and my grand kids are going to do better than that and the fuel of the tea party is people calling that into question and saying i don't know if my kids are going to do better than i am. i saw in the debate where i spoke out vociferously against the stimulus when it came out and the first governor to formally reject it. what i saw then is people genuinely concerned about the issue of equity and the glue that holds us together as americans as dispaired as we may be is the american seem, you will work as hard as you wshg and the idea of ameritocracy and people calling it into question, because they were saying, mark, sop investment banker with a beachhouse in the hamptons getting bailed out and meanwhile my cousin with a pizza shop is not getting bailed out. it is a genuine question of --

>> would you agree with warren buffett that the tax system has to be reforred to hammer people like him, the super rich paying a disproportionate of taxes than the guy compared on the street? >> i absolutely believe in the notion of tax reform and in other words, we need a fair tax or flat tax or simpler form. i think that warren buffett was terribly misleading with what he said in two different levels. one is, you know, he was basically looking at the capital gains tax, 15%. what he is not including is the fact that he also owns the company, and so there is a corporate tax of 35%, and we e6k9 ti effectively have the highest corporate rate in the world and you combine them, it is 50%. and he was not containing the corporate tax, and his company berkshire hathaway does not pay dividends because it is on dividends, and so what is that

tax rate? zero. so he does not need the tax rate like a secretary or someone, because he can make millions and milli millions, because it is appreciating the assets. >> the republicans at the moment, and we are seeing a clear pattern emerge with romney, and bachmann and perry and so on, and who do you think fundamentally has what it takes in the overall package to seriously challenge barack obama? >> i think that the primary system will winnow that out. >> what is your gut feeling? you are a smart political mind? >> well, you are trying to get me to pick a horse and i don't want to do that? >> well, if you are in the paddock and you are shown the horses who is an early feeling of who could beat him? >> well, there are a couple of attributes that the american people are looking for. and part of it is paul ryan's expertise in the budget, and a lot of of times the platitudes are talked about cutting

spending, and the beauty of the ryan budget and whether you agree wit or not, it was specific in nature and i believe we are at that point with the crisis coming our way that we need specificses. >> so you need a hybrid of him and somebody like chris christie, and i spent a day with him and i found him impressive, but he made it clear he would not run this time. do you believe him? is he persuadable if the with go into the next few months and the the first proper primary, could you see him rallying to the cause of the party if no one has emerged that he could beat upon? >> well, it could happen, but i am listing attributes whether it is him or rick perry and you go down to list, and each one has the attributes and the two things that are most needed at this point given the fact that we have $57 trillion in contingent liability in the country and a real issue with competitiveness is real earnestness and plain spokenness on how bad the problem is,

because the american public can handle it, but they need to be educated in the plain facts laid out in terms of how desperate the situation is. >> presumably though, you would lean more toward a tea party nominee than a moderate type like a -- >> absolutely. >> so is michele bachmann the one in that case, the obvious person now beginning to capture enough of the public's imagination to potentially be that person? >> no, you cannot look at it that simplistically and ron paul who was just on had a huge tea party backing. rick perry has really excited folks with, you know, across both financial and social circumstances in that he is a hybrid between bachmann and perhaps romney so i think that there are a couple of folks out there vying for the tea party and what i will say is whoever captures them will be the republican nominee. >> i don't want you to necessarily name someone if you are not ready to, but of those names, of the three, you know,

which one if you had to put one in the race tomorrow? >> i'm not going to pick a horse. but i will say and let me go back to the reason i'm on the show which is that i think that we are looking at a global depression coming our way, and i think that our ability to survive as a republic will be determined by how we respond. historically and i think that thus far, we have gotten in essence is prescription wrong and if we continue to apply the wrong prescription, we will see hyperinflation that could very well cause to us lose the republic. >> i want a break and i want to take you back to the scandal that led to you not being center stage now, and get your feelings now with reflection on what happened. [ carrie ] i remember my very first year as a teacher,

setting that goal to become a principal. but, i have to support my family, so how do i go back to school? university of phoenix made it doable. a lot of my instructors were principals in my district.

i wouldn't be where i am without that degree. my name is dr. carrie buck. i helped turn an at-risk school into an award winning school, and i am a phoenix. [ male announcer ] find your program at phoenix.edu. [ male announcer ] they'll see you...before you see them. cops are cracking down on drinking and riding. drive sober, or get pulled over. discover aveeno positively radiant tinted moisturizers with scientifically proven soy complex and natural minerals. give you sheer coverage instantly, then go on to even skin tone in four weeks. aveeno tinted moisturizers.

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from october 15th to december 7th, so now is a great time to review your situation. call now or visit us online to get this free answer guide from unitedhealthcare medicare solutions. call right now. there was so much destruck snun the last chapter of my life that i wanted to build something. i wanted to construct something, and in particularly, i wanted to do something like that with my boys. so i think that there was, i don't know, something of a healing process that went with

building this and the other structures that marked my summer. the thing that anybody thinks about who has failed at some level, whether one fails in their marriage, whether one fails in finances or whether one fails in any chapter of life which is, you know, god, how do you use me in the next chapter of life? and will there be a next chapter? and what can i do to use whatever limited talents i have to some meaningful purpose and some good? >> candid mark sanford at the private retreat where he lives now. you have been kicked all over the place. publicly humiliated and trashed by the media, and trashed by almost everybody. you know, you were public enemy number one in politics by that period and followed by others and the cycle moved on and others falled down and they get kicked, too. and what was the experience like for you on a human level, because you are not the caricature that we read about and you were the guy honest enough to say in an interview

that you used to pick up the papers and say, you idiot, and other people who had done what you had done and suddenly, you are the guy. and how does it feel? it is humbling. i will have to say off of the set we were speaking a moment ago and i said candidly that i have done thousands of interviews back through congress and through the governorship and i never one moment afraid. it is that we could agree or disagree on an issue, and now as you step back out, because i think that i need to do my best as best i can in warning the country on what i think that is coming our way if we don't change the direction, you still walk out scared. i have never been scared before. but i'm a little bit frightened inside and i think that it is because, you go through that process that was rather glaring and you don't want to disappoint anybody. you -- you know that you let a lot of people down. there's a whole lot of anxiety that comes with an interview there for thinking on how you

might let somebody down, and you don't want to do that. >> looking back on it, you are still with the woman that you left your wife for, an argentinian, and maria bellan shepore to prove that it was not a short-term fling and you didn't throw everything away for nothing, and that there is a love story there, and given that, do you feel great regret or is that the wrong emotion to put to you? >> well, i think that, you -- i mean, anybody who has been married doesn't start out the beginning thinking, boy, i hope some day i get divorced and i hope some day that the train comes off of the track. so there has to be a regret and something sacred about a family unit. i have four boys and you have some boys, and anything that brings harm to your boys, you have genuine regret about. i think that, you know, part of the journey for me over the past couple of years has been, you

know, first for family in wake of the whole storm, you know, and the question of do you quit and walk out of there and never see a camera again, which is by far the easiest thing to do. >> but you stuck it out. >> and professionally make some good of this, because what people telling me at the ground level, mark, you messed up and you disappointed and you finished strong so we had the most productive legislative year in the last year of the eight, and from a personal sense you hope you learned from it. >> and what have you learned about yourself? >> well, i have learned a lot. you werelot. i never publicly judge, but privately i judged. i think we're all prone to do so. and you read the paper and indeed, you say loser, loser, idiot, moron. >> you voted for the impeachment of bill clinton over the monica lewinsky. >> you look at things and say by the graves god go i. i'm going to worry about the log

in my own eye before i worry about the splinter in somebody's else's. there's a phenomenal amount of human grace out there. >> how has the public been with you? >> they're incredible. again, people would come up and say look, you're human. you're going to not get it perfect. so i think it is true, as i was saying in that clip a moment ago, whether it's a financial mishap, a personal mishap. we're all going to make mistakes. an old timer says one of the keys is the only real mistake you make in life is the one you don't learn from. >> i heard a few weeks ago, you had this extraordinary moment i think in the street or something. a woman just came up to you and said can i give you a hug. you look like you need a hug. >> that was actually more than -- that was back in the middle of the storm where i thought i might be stoned to death if any woman saw me and i was in sumpter, south carolina and this black woman was walking

down the street and said do you feed a hug. i had little choice in the ma matter. >> how did that make you feel? >> it was fabulous. we all need grace and love. there's plenty of judgment to go around and there's certainly a role by folks in the media and others to be played in getting things uncovered and wrongs right but i think that there is abiding need for human grace and love. i got it that day on the street and many times since then with people across my state. >> is it satisfying to you that the relationship has lasted with maria? does it give you a sense of you all hammered me at the time thinking i was having some mid life crisis. but this was actually a real love story. i fell in love. >> well, i did. i've said i'm guilty of that, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that i certainly handled a whole number of things wrong. there have been consequences for that and that's something i've had to deal with and hopefully learn from. >> what would you do

differently? >> a whole host of things, none of which are particularly productive in terms of my boys who might be watching the show. >> would anything really have made much difference? >> yeah, i'd say a couple different things. in other words, people tend to focus on what goes wrong at the time of an affair or another or whatever. but in reality, that's a long time coming. and so really, if you go back ten years earlier, i was doing things wrong in the marriage that caused things to get derailed. i think that anybody out there, you know, ought to really think about this notion of fireproofing their marriage by having their priorities right. as men we tend to define ourselves by what we do. i think trying to impact the direction of our country is an incredibly important job but pales in cox pair son to what i believe is to be my first job which is to love god and love your neighbor as yourself. if you get that part as true north, a lot of the other is

going to take care of itself. i would say that i failed in terms of properly loving my wife. a lot of guys complain my wife doesn't do this, she doesn't do that. there was a song when i was in high school. if you want to get closer to me, or you want me to get closer to you, get closer to me or something along those lines. a guy took me aside in the middle of the storm. i wish there was a school for this kind of stuff. my dad got sick when i was in high school, died when i was in college. you kind of figure it out as best you can. i think that i didn't properly love my wife. i think that you know, fundamental to a woman, i'm not trying to be a chauvinist is the need for security whether it's emotional or financial. if she gets that, she's happy and encouraging. if she doesn't, she can be other things. and core to a guy is a need for respect and he may get a job, if he doesn't get the job, he may become a scout master or little league coach. if you get that dance right

between the husband and wife, some really great things happen. if you get it a little bit off because the husband, the bible says the man is to love the wife as christ loved the church isn't doing what he ought to be doing on that front, again some things can go wrong. i would blame myself. i've said how do i be a better person going forward. i think there were a number of missteps from my end. >> having got it wrong in your marriage, do you feel like you've learned enough from that whole experience and the bruising exposure and scandal to get it right now the? >> i hope so. >> are you happier in yourself now do you think? >> oh, yeah. i said to a friend, i probably have more to offer as a human being than i've ever had in my life. but i probably have a smaller canvas to paint on and i accept that as a reality. you know, i don't know where life would have gone but it could have been i would have been in the presidential mix because i cared deeply about these ideas and long been talking about them. i can't control that part. all i can control now is what do you do going forward.

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back now with mark sanford. another tweet from jared emerson. love the sinner, hate the sin. >> uh-huh. >> how do you feel about that? >> it's true. it's true. i think that's the challenge of faith and grace. >> do you have any plans to remarry? >> we'll see.