there and i think just the determination from that has helped me with my basketball. >> coming up one hour from now. time for "your money." a victim of president obama? is president obama a victim of the economy or is the economy a victim of president obama? welcome to "your $$$$$." i'm christine romans. ali is off this week. this is a professor at the university school of maryland. peter, the president will be forced to run a re-election campaign in a terrible economy. you say that's not because of the legacies of president bush or financial crisis but president obama has been his own worst enemy? >> absolutely. he inherited a mess but he's made it worse and gotten in deeper. look at health care costs. the health care bill did not resolve the problem. they are rising steeply. banks continue trading, do not make loans. dodd/frank has not succeeded. most importantly the president promised to do something about

energy and china when he was campaigning. he promised us thousands of green jobs. he shut down drilling in the gulf more or less. he hasn't replaced them with another industry. in china he simply hasn't acted. that trade debt is choking the economy, there's not enough demand for what americans make and the economy doesn't move forward. >> he doesn't have a compliant congress at the moment, specifically parts of the house of representatives. >> that's true. the reason he doesn't is because he squandered his first year. now as a consequence, the country elected a congress that wants a change in direction. the congress for its part doesn't seem much capable of providing it. to say mr. obama is alone in not getting us out of this mess would not be fair. the republicans aren't providing a path either. >> this is a senior fellow at demos and author of "it takes a pillage, epic power, deceit and untold trillions." the americans condition to give president obama low marks, only

9% say the president's policies made the economy better while 39% feel his policies prevented things from getting worse. about the same amount, 37%, say president obama's policies actually made the economy worse. is the president at the mercy of the financial crisis or do you agree with peter some of his own policies have exacerbated this? >> i think it's a combination. peter is right, certain policies have not necessarily made things better. on the other hand it's because those policies haven't really addressed not the financial crisis, but how the banking system has been a culprit in continuing the problem that the financial crisis that began in 2008 showed, in that it is isn't helping to refinance loans, ebs tending new loans to small businesses which employ nearly 50% in this country and create 48 to 50% of small jobs. when people are upset or confused, which those numbers show, or negative, it's because

that's the result of what's happening. the economy isn't getting better. better job creation isn't positive. whatever those policies are isn't helping that. also not having a policy that addresses the fact that the banks continue to deteriorate themselves and the economy and not assist in giving forward to the population either in the form of small business loans for jobs, refinancing for mortgage market when the housing market continues to tank and foreclosures continue to rise, the necessity to lend money they received in cheap subsidies from the government and continue to from the federal reserve, that's a fundamental mishandling of policy. >> let's bring in a senior writing at cnn money. the president announced his debt reduction plan to the nation. republicans slammed that plan saying we see a lot of taxes. but where are the major spending cuts? there were some $500 billion in spending cuts, but the bulk of this is paid for by taxing the rich. do they have a point? >> they do have a point but more from the fiscal hawk side than political side.

senior administration officials basically said this is not a compromise proposal. this is really the direction the president would like to go. this is not about the summer's negotiation over the debt ceiling. what he did, a third of his savings comes from higher taxes, two-thirds from spending. fiscal hawks say it's not really two-thirds because one-third is from spending drawdown which was going to happen anyway. it's a big debate whether those should count as deficit reduction. he doesn't attack entitlement programs very much. social security isn't even in the plan. medicare and medicaid cuts are mostly on the administrative side which has to happen to but not as comprehensive as they were hoping for. >> was this a political positioning or positioning for the economy? i mean, that's what i'm wondering? >> right. the more i think about it, having covered it, i really think it was more of a political stance document. he's going to get a lot of support for taxing the rich more.

fiscal hawks, anybody really serious about the budget says that has to happen but they say other people need to be taxed more. he's really trying to appeal to his base as much as anything else with this document. >> peter, you brought in structural deficits, structural imbalances earlier on in the program. it's something you and i talked about for years now. when you look around, do you see any of the big problems, the big imbalances that cause this whole crisis in the beginning. do you see them moving in the right direction? >> no, i don't. the trade deficit with china is getting worse. oil dependence stabilized in terms of the quantity, the prices have risen and president reducing u.s. production. on the banking side, which we heard a lot about, the big banks are monopolizing, share over 50%, they are acquiring deposits not because they want to make loans to regional customers that need them, small business, homeowners but so they can trade and do business with large corporations very often

financing outsourcing. my feeling is the banking system has become dysfunctional, not in business for america, simply in business for itself. the president of the united states bears responsibility. this is happening on his watch. >> we've got 13 months until the next election. is it fair to say you've got all parties in washington working quickly to try to come up with important policies to mitigate the pain of unemployment, rising deficits and a slowing economy worldwide or have we turned completely into campaigning mode already? >> i think we've been in campaigning mode since obama came into office. it's worse because the general economy has continued to deteriorate because financial and banking infrastructure continues to suck from it and not being addressed. all the conversations happening in washington about whether it's a spending cut, social security, which is really not the problem are failing to address the fundamental problem of a banking system not just because it's consolidated deposits but

it's fundamentally deteriorating our entire economy as it stands. that is not being addressed. we raised -- the treasury department issued $4 trillion worth of debt in the last two and a half years, $1.6 trillion currently sits on the federal reserve books through the banks from treasury to banks to fed doing absolutely nothing productive. think how many jobs we could create with $1.6 trillion. we are debating a $400 billion stimulus. we're just focusing on a minor part of the problem and ignoring the bigger problem. >> you know, jeanne, here is the issue, if we are in campaigning mode and you have this important, delicate operation that needs to be -- needs to, you know, needs to happen, which is you need to have long-term deficit reduction and short-term you have to show the world you're serious about deficit reduction but not so quickly and indiscriminately it's going to hurt your economy that's going to take nuance and

finesse and i don't see a lot of finesse in washington at the moment. >> there's none whatsoever. yes, people who, again, are very serious about the budget say we do have to go on two tracks at once. republicans aren't having it. they don't want any sort of stimulus really. they think cutting the deficit will be stimulus enough that alone will help job creation. a lot of economists don't agree with that position. president obama for his part, he's proposed a jobs plan that isn't really going to garner bipartisan support. he gets credit for proposing a plan but a plan he knew walking out of the gate wouldn't get everybody on board. >> stay where you are. treating the crisis as an emergency, one president says it's long overdue. that's next on "your money." bm [ junior ] i played professional basketball for 12 years.

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now that president obama has announced his plan for deficit reduction all eyes are pinned on the super committee. their plans are due in november. will the super committee succeed where so many others have failed? >> they are asked to do so much in a short time. they have to reduce the deficit by $1.2 trillion, a lot of pressure on them to so-called go big, cut 3 or $4 trillion. asked to form a tax code, create jobs, show the world that the congress can function. they have to write this in legislation. it's not the same as plain english. they've got a real load on their backs. >> until thanksgiving to do that. >> until november 23rd. i don't think they will accomplish all of that. they might accomplish a small piece. >> a lot of work done before then, simpson bowls commission. lots of other deficit reduction. it's not as if there are new ideas. which ideas have been hashed out and rejected and figuring out what we have to do. >> to get to that agreement you have to get both sides together. even just on tax reform they are

under competing directives. president obama says i want it to raise revenue more than the current system. speaker boehner says no, i don't want it to raise more. they have to keep in the leader leadership and the folks in congress because congress has to vote this through. >> a poll shows 65% of americans want president obama and congress to pay more attention to creating jobs rather than reducing the deficit. peter, americans sending a very clear message to washington here. is now the right time for the super committee on deficit reduction. i guess we don't have a choice, right? >> we don't have a choice. there are bond rating agencies that evaluate the united states as they do greece. we're talking about deficit reductions that are going to happen in the out years. what we need to do to create jobs now doesn't need government spending or to reduce the deficit. if we jump-start oil and gas in the united states that gives us the very same kinds of jobs we would get from infrastructure spending. spending on construction

workers, concrete, steel and the like. with some folks like princeton and some of the republican candidates have suggested, doing something about the trade deficit with china, that would create private investment in the united states, wouldn't create spending. >> charles evans made it clear in a speech he thinks the federal reserve should be reacting to unemployment. evans said, imagine that inflation was running at 5% against our inflation objective of 2%. is there a doubt that any central banker worth their salt would be reacting strongly to fight this high inflation rate. no, there isn't any doubt. they would be acting as if their hair was on fire. we should be similarly energized about improving conditions in the labor market. when it comes to job creation, should the fed do more? should there be an employment target the fed is trying to meet? >> there should be. the fed has abjectly ignored unemployment except to discuss

it as part of the reason the economy isn't doing well, which is a circular set of logic. really, the fact the fed has supported banks and banks have not helped to lend that to small or medium businesses is one of the reasons we're not creating as many jobs. whether that be in small energy, middle energy, technology companies or other types of companies or infrastructure and construction, all of that has to do with money that can partially come from the government, for the government component of the infrastructure and those jobs but from the fed in terms of creating a situation where banks are tied to on lend what they have received. they are getting money at 0%. they are not lending it out. you have this choke hold on any business that wants to grow because it doesn't know how to fund itself. therefore it cuts job. we don't have new jobs created to make up for the fact that 14 million are unemployed and 17 million additional people are underemployed. there are no jobs to get.

i think it has to be a combination. the fed can control what banks have been doing with the money they have very, very easily been receiving. >> everyone is sitting on their money. peter i'm in no position to defend banks. they are sitting on an awful lot of money that could be lent. companies are sitting on money they could be using to grow and they aren't. aren't they looking around at the rest of the world, slowing growth, the rest of the world, they're concerned about, a china slowing down, potentially european financial crisis and they are saying we've got to do now what we should have done before, which is make sure we have more money on hand. >> certainly a lot of companies are shoring up their cash. some of the biggest companies have lots of cash on hand. they have been investing. they are investing in china because they see business conditions there and business conditions more friendly growing very rapidly. in order to get american businesses to invest fundamentally there has to be more demand. general electric is not going to invest in a light bulb factory unless people buy more bulbs. unless we do something about

energy, china, dysfunctional in the banks they're not going to invest. >> long-term solutions that take reform, collaboration in washington. >> i don't think so. i think i could free up oil and gas development in 90 days in the united states. you just need a secretary department of education that believes in fossil fuels. >> department of education? i think you mean department of energy. that would be interesting if the department of education was putting out drilling permits. maybe that would stream things along. >> let's not use up the time. if they took a position and wanted to free up development that could be done. with regard to china we could put on the tax romney suggested tomorrow morning at 9:00 and get results out of china in two weeks. >> we have to leave it there. have a great weekend, everybody. it's everything a hot novel should have, controversy, betrayal, infighting. we're not talking about a novel, we're talking about the hot new book on the obama white house. the author with the juicy details and response to the

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a new book claims that president obama's economic team suffered through infighting struggling to get a grasp on the 2008 financial crisis. ron sus kind -- suskind, the pulitzer prize and author of "the confidence men, wall street and education of a president." welcome to the program. secretary geithner disputes your version of reality. let's hissin' to what he said about your book. >> again, i lived the original. the reality i lived, we all lived together bears no relation to the sad little stories i heard reported from the book. >> pretty concerted effort by current and former officials to discredit the reporting of the book, a book that you say pulls the curtain back on a young presidency making mistakes at a historic time. >> it was a difficult time. the president was largely a victim of circumstances. as i point out in the book, part of his appeal he was not a washington guy. someone with something of a clean slate. here at a time of crisis,

largely exacerbated, maybe even caused by the washington new york axis that the book examines with such care. obama arrives, though, has to both own washington, tame new york, save the economy. he has around him a variety of senior advisers, all of whom i would say had a hand in some of the mistakes that were made that caused the disaster that the president now faces. >> mistakes like what? deregulation of the banking system, you mean like sort of an open arms, full throated endorsement of gloenlization, not realizing you're going to have millions of americans out of work eventually. >> precisely. other officials going through their nomination process, don't do policy and don't admit mistakes. don't admit we made any mistakes from the days of yore. frankly some of them said yes to that, some doesn't. gary gensler is an example of someone much more candid to say look, we did make mistakes. you know, the key is to admit that so we can go forward.

>> in the book you relay a conversation in which larry summers is alleged to have said to piece orszag, another member of the economic team, we're really home alone. there's no adult in charge. clinton would have never made mistakes. here what is summers had to say to "the washington post." you spoke to so many people from the obama administration past and present for this book. are you surprised by their reaction? >> not really. i'm surprised by some of the personal qualities of it. what i did in this book was really try to go back to everybody, prior to publication and say here is what's going to go next to your name, give me your response. larry summers does give a full paragraph response to the home alone quote in the book. i think that's the real response, that's one he's sober,

he talks about we were overwhelmed, had five times as many problems and not five times as many people. essentially we're a victim of circumstances. who knows what any president could have done. i think that's the appropriate and accurate response. as well, i think importantly is that time geithner responds in almost two pages of quotes, all from a transcript of a final interview i did prior to publication with the treasury secretary. people can judge for themselves. whether he slow walked the president or not from that. >> it comes at a tender moment for this president and that's probably part of the sensitivity on the part of the white house and people loyal to him in this book essentially would walk over hot coals for this man. people are loyal to him. journalists are loyal to him. journalists that want access going forward. we're in a difficult period. this is a hard book in a way to report. i was identified by the bush administration as a lifelong democrat. i am a lifelong democrat. to report some of these things,

to get these disclosures, to sit down with person after person and hear what they have to say, go over the tapes, i'm like, wow, this is unsettling some of it, hard to hear. but i think the key to the book is this education of and evolution of a president. so many of the disclosures being discussed are firmly placed in past tense by the book because they are in past tense in the view of the president. he feels he has grown, learned and hardened himself by virtue of these difficult times. he says that with real force in the last interview. >> the last third of the book is looking forward, what's been learned from these mistakes. all the press is about the controversy between people who said they did or didn't say whatever. where is this president now? judging from the mistakes that happened at the beginning of the financial crisis and if he was president. where is he now in terms of a very serious jobs crisis and political crisis as well. >> the sweeter the uses of adversity.

clearly this president found many uses for adversity. he gives voice to that in this final long 50 minute interview we do. he says going forward he has a model that works, he has a staff i need now to do what i need to do. it's a much more dynamic version of leadership. essentially i can do this. i've got this job in my grasp, a president with a big p. he knows the crises are acute. i think what you're seeing in the last week, in fact, is something the president would point to and say there is the president you're going to see more of. tougher, saying it's about choices, not everyone will be pleased. tough choices taking on opponents. not saying we can all figure this out and come together. i think that period may be over. that's where the president telegraphs at the end of this book. >> you say you're a lifelong democrat. from what you know about this president and the people around him, are you ready to say he needs another four years. >> not the kind of thing i talk about. >> that's a very diplomatic answer and it is early, 14 more

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plenty of unfinished in washington, the super committee's recommendations to cut long-term debt, the president's $3 trillion reduction plan and the $450 billion american's jobs act. congress hasn't touched the jobs bill consistently criticized by republicans. >> if a bridge needs fixing, by all means let's fix it. but don't tell us we need to pass a half a trillion dollar stimulus bill and accept job killing tax hikes to do it. don't tell the people of kentucky they need to finance every turtle tunnel and every solar company on some bureaucratic's wib list to get their bridges fixed. >> robert zimmerman, democratic strategist, will cain a cnn

contributor. i'll start with you, republican mitch mcconnell is making a point will has made many times on this show. is this jobs act about real job creation or short-term stimulus that's only going to add to deficits. >> actually it's going to be about both. the reality you just saw from mitch mcconnell is an illustration of what's wrong with washington. because in the sense, conflict works in politics. that's how they got there was through conflict. the economy doesn't work through conflict, the economy only works through cooperation. ultimately we're not going to see see any real progress in terms of job growth or stimulus to the economy unless there is more cooperation. ultimately it's up to the american people to demand it. >> the economy is not working but everyone disagrees how to get it working again. will, let's talk about taxes. one of the things the president would like to do, something called the buffet rule named for the billionaire, who says washington has coddled rich people like him too long he doesn't pay enough in taxes. the buffet rule headlined a plan by the president centered on the wealthy paying more, allowing,

also including allowing the bush tax cuts to expire for the wealthiest. republicans say class warfare. with the poor getting poor and the rich enjoying the only growth you saw over the past ten years, is it time for the wealthy to pay more? >> is your motivation to even out the wealth spectrum so the rich doesn't have as much and poor have more, it might be effective. if the goal is stimulate jobs and growth as bob suggested, i think it's a poor measure to affect that. president obama is giving lip service in the past, christine. you can use the tax code to stimulate economic growth and create jobs simplifying it, doing away with loopholes. when you have an over-complicated tax code, you know who knows how to negotiate it best? rich people and their accountants. simplify it, a huge economic boon, you can lower tax rates and have tax revenues to the government go up. >> can these guys decide, simplifying the tax code, tax

reform sounds so great. i don't see any give-and-take in washington. could they do it. >> i think there's a bigger issue here. the first goal is to create economic growth and stimulate the economy. ultimately we're not going to do that. we're not going to move this economy forward without creating economic growth. if your focus is deficit and taxes, that's going to paralyze the congress. i think you've seen what the american jobs act a program even republican economists like mark zandi. a mccain adviser said this could reduce unemployment by 1%. that's got to be the first focus to grow this economy. the deficit and issue of taxes in the outer years, that's got to be addressed at a later time after the economy is moving forward. >> we have to do it all. the only problem is, it has to be done all together. we're not in a position -- we've given up an awful lot of time, pushed this forward years and years. they have to do it the right way. i think we look at washington and not sure they can do its right way. >> to answer the question whether or not stimulus is an effective way to stimulate the

economy, this is a serious economic argument and debate to be had there. one thing people seem to agree on, whether or not it's the obama reduction or deficit reduction panel, they have this idea of tax simplification. my point is whether it's conservative economists or president obama this is an idea people have rallied. there's a reason they haven't enacted it. the tax code is a way to use social engineering, influence people's behavior. we decide people we want to buy homes we give a tax break to do it. we have to let go of that. >> the bottom line the rivlin commission, bowles simpson commission talked about shared sacrifice and every national poll shows the same thing. >> i'm not making an argument for flat taxes here. >> that's not the point. the point is shared sacrifice is part of this. we also have to recognize both parties should increase their doses of dramamine they are all spinning themselves. >> i want you to listen to mitt romney making

a case for middle class tax cut at the presidential debate this week. listen. >> i know there are some that say we should lower taxes for the highest income people, other folks have different plans. my view is simple. the people that have been hurt most by the president's economy, the obama economy is the middle class. that's why i cut taxes for the middle class. >> robert, is it responsible for any politician left or right to offer tax cuts when we're talking about a drastic need for deficit reduction. >> the drastic need is grow the economy. the president put forward a bill with many proposals the republicans support, payroll tax cuts, giving working families $1500 extra through tax cuts, great incentives for employers to create employment. romney is doing political posturing and it is an example of the type of conflict that paralyzed this economy. i would make this point to you. we have seen the economy grow in sectors of our country. we've seen tremendous growth in pittsburgh through nanotechnology.

we've seen cleveland expand through the cleveland clinic or silicon valley come back. we are seeing economic growth emerge when there's cooperation between the government and private sector. the problem, in washington it's just the opposite. they were elected to oppose cooperation. >> last word, will. >> i would say i'm glad bob admits in addition to government spending tax cuts can have a stimulative effect. the obama admission is going about its wrong way, another loophole, exemption for payroll taxes are temporary measures that don't have the effect of simplifying the tax code. >> bottom line is, will -- wait. >> he gets the last word. >> okay. >> interrupt you. >> took my best shot. >> will cain, there you go, guys. have a great weekend. come back and do it again, right? is it possible to anger 750 million people at once? apparently it is. we'll explain what it's all about and why you very well might be one of them next. that works at the molecular level to help your engine run more smoothly by helping remove deposits

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welcome back to "your money." richard florida is the senior editor at atlantic, richard quest, host of business. european markets rocked this week. the u.s. market followed suit posting steep losses of its own. christine lagarde head of international monetary fund warns the world is in this together. >> it's a problem that concerns

just each and every country, each and every member of our institutions. we are in this together and we can pull out of this together, because from the fund's perspective our analysis says there is a path for recovery. well, that's nice to know, a path for recovery richard quest. could that path go steeply downhill before it gets to the end? >> there is a new reality. there's a new seriousness. i would say it's come in the last two or three weeks. people are now talking about finance ministers, analysts, economists, everyone talking about a window closing to sort this thing out. if you look at the last four or five days in the market, that's exactly what we are seeing. this window is getting tighter and tighter. but we're hearing the same rhetoric. christine lagarde is a fine finance minister and leader of the imf, but you've got to do

more than say we're in this together. angela merkel has to do more, sarkozy has to do more, the president has to do more. whichever way we look, it's the same rhetoric. but frankly where's the action? >> richard, one of the things here, people keep saying starting to feel like 2008 again. if you said that six months ago, too premature. feeling like 2008. this time it's europe and financial crisis there instead of a crisis in the united states. is that too dramatic that comparison? >> no. it was easily predictable. you know, what we are going through is not a typical business cycle. this is a great economic and financial crisis. i call it a great reset. you know, if you look back in history at the two analogous events, great depression of 1930s and panic and long depression of '70s, those were generational events, two to three decades long from crisis to reset to recovery.

it's quite predictable. while monetary fixes and meetings of financial ministers could mute the most onerous and heinous and tragic outcomes of this crisis, we need a different kind of focus on long-run recovery, real innovation, productivity improvement, building new ways of consumer demand. the current approaches can only mute the worst outcomes they're not going to set us on a path of prosperity. >> all is not hopeless around the world. richard florida you came out with a list of the top 25 most powerful cities in the world. i want to look at the top five. new york comes in number two behind tokyo. not listed is boston at number six. that's three u.s. cities among the six. are rumors that america's decline have been exaggerated, richard florida? >> i do not think america is in decline and i would predict that america will come out of this crisis in the single best

position of any economy, including china and asia and the world. we're already ahead. look at europe getting back on track. the fact of the matter is that list we ran at the atlantic cities this week shows the crisis is terribly uneven. and this comes out in the new census data. while places like new york and washington and boston and san francisco and other countries, london and paris are doing okay and even tokyo, other parts of our own country and the world are sinking. so one of the things we have to come to grips with is not only a growing economic inequality but growing geographic inequality at home where some places are recovering so nicely and others in detroit and the sun belt are falling further behind. i think the united states comes out in the best shape of any economy. >> richard, such an interesting analysis. the crisis had an uneven effect. i think you see that along the income stream, how much money you make, where you live, what you do for a living, what country you live in. >> we're in very dangerous

territory in this interview. i have to tell you. for the first time you have a guest on with me that i completely agree with me everything he's said so far. >> thank you, richard. thank you. >> this is very worrying. let's hope it's not a trend. this concept that we are in a generational great reset is absolutely what's happening. the tinkering that's going on by mealy mouth politicians is really what's worrying. on this other point, if i look up britain, london is doing okay, frankly. you talk to british airways, they will say their flights from london, their yields have held up, passengers have held up. the london economy is one on its own. >> i want to switch gears quickly and talk about facebook, 750 million members, about 750 million of them are quite irked by plans to make major changes to the site. i did log in this week and it gave mae headache. the social media giant prompting users to take to twitter other

online venues. to vent petitions popping up, richard quest you're in london, richard florida in toronto, you're i presume friends on facebook, i'm in new york, would we all be friends without it? >> the thing about facebook is, it's a very short period of time it's enmeshed itself into people's psyche. just as much as if "the new york times" changes one bit of formatting or cnn we change our program schedule one bit, zillens of people start getting upset. people have nothing better to do than get irked and write long letters to the newspapers. facebook is suffering the same syndrome. everybody believes it's theirs, the moment you tinker with it wait out the volume of mail. >> richard, 750 million anything is a lot? isn't it? >> yeah. i don't think facebook is going away. but i'll tell you, it would seemingly give a boost to things like google+ and certainly help twitter along. i think, you know, social media

is part of our life. the one thing it's done, which is really interesting related to the previous conversation, it's actually help create this concentration of economic assets and kind of exemplified the divide. i think social media and globalization and this uneven crisis all go together. as richard said, we have a mutual admiration society, two richards make a trend. one of the things we have to come to grips in our social media globalized world is we're all, depending on where we live, we're going further and further apart. wrapping this back to the last conversation. solving this problem not only of socioeconomic inequality in the united states but the growing inequality between cities is one of the key factors to getting us on the path of recovery. >> we have to leave it there with the richard mutual admiration society we should start a segment named after it. thank you. the unemployment rate for african-americans is at a 27 year high, double that of whites. not a new problem but why is it getting worse? accept it.

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the jobs crisis in this country is not improving and there are few signs it will in the near future. the outlook particularly grim for african-americans. the overall u.s. unemployment rate is 9.1%. but for black males, it is more than twice as high, a staggering 19.1%. job were the focus at the congressional black caucus annual meeting in washington this week. cnn contributor roland martin has been participating. welcome to the program. >> glad to be here. >> the jobless rate hit a 27-year high last month for african-americans. and this was shocking. you got to go back to the reagan administration to see a situation that has been so difficult for this particular group. what's the problem? what solutions are being discussed? or are we not discussing race-specific solution and that's a problem? >> well, first of all, we're not discussing race-specific solutions. do understand, there is a common phrase used that when america gets a cold, black america gets pneumonia. so whenever there is an economic

downturn, folks who are at the lower end always are impacted. first of all, you talk about with black men, you have to tie the jobs situation to education. so when you talk about detroit and chicago and other cities, where you have 25, 35, 40% of black men graduating from high school, what that means is that you have people who are not even -- not even a high school diploma, now in the position where they're really looking at lower wage jobs, possibly customer service jobs, or opting for jobs in pharmaceuticals, also known as being drug dealers involved in crime or whatever. folks absolutely out of the marketplace. so education is a direct correlation. but, when we also study the stats, the unemployment rate of college educated african-americans is twice that of white americans, that says something as well. but clearly when you talk about across the board education is

the fundamental issue that speaks to the high unemployment rate. >> yeah. and you know, i'll tell you one thing that a lot of the research i've covered over the years is that the first job is critical for the rest of the path. if you don't have that first job, you know, it sets you back. so you've got, you know, 20 years, 18 or 20 years to really groom an american to get the right foot hold in the economy and education is the big part of that 20 years. go ahead. >> when you also expand this conversation beyond the issue in terms of having the job, it also applies to the creation of wealth. we have seen the loss. i talked about this two years ago, 53% of black wealth has been wiped out as a result of the home foreclosure crisis. so when you also talk about low jobs, low wage jobs, then you talk about the whole education issue, christine, being in your situation that i'm familiar with and that is that i might be educated, high earner, but i

might have a brother or a sister who is in need of economic help and so what ends up happening is a lost african-americans deal with this, you're providing so much resources to siblings, you're unable to truly save accordingly. so therefore your wealth creation is not as great as it should be and so now it is -- now it is -- it is a circle issue. so it affect you, you, you and you have a greater problem. so that's why it is vital for african-americans to have the education, get that particular job, so you're not having to sustain the rest of your family as a result of your one income. >> all right, roland martin, fascinating discussion and we should make sure that discussion never ends just here in one week that we keep going, keep talking about it. roland martin, cnn contributor. what could the u.s. government learn from corporate america, a lot according to the leading successful brand

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when discussing solutions for unemployment on this show, we often ask what will it take to encourage businesses to expand and hire. ali velshi posed that question. >> you're at a conference here where they really aim to come up with solutions. the participants are meant to take action, to improve things. one thing that is a focus of this particular conference is jobs. it seems to be an intractable problem. is it? >> we are faced now with a situation where companies and corporations, small or medium sized or large, are actually doing pretty well in the united states as a result of the actions that they have taken. but they're not employing people. and so we're faced still with a very high unemployment rate. i think unless we can take some really bold action, both at the federal government level, policymakers, as well as at the

local level, we're not going to come out of this current dilemma of decoupling of growth and employment. and i think we -- it is incumbent upon us to do that. because at the end of the day, we'll be faced with a big social issue if this -- if this continues and the divergence continues. >> ultimately, jobs are mostly created when there is demand for those jobs to be created. so look at your own company. is there something, some policy that can change, some initiative that could be taken that would cause you to create jobs and hire people that you're otherwise not hiring right now? >> there is this motion that growth overseas takes jobs overseas. not necessarily so. not always the case. but i think what we really need more in the united states is clarity, is more trust, is a

poli policy, creative incentives, creative incentives for business in the united states, for business that is going to invest and that are going to invest also in especially sustainable -- >> is that going to be businesses like yours or midsized businesses or smaller businesses? >> i think all, for all. i will -- we would be investing more if there was more creative investment incentives given to our business, especially for sustainable innovation, and for sustainable infrastructure, and for green infrastructure, both production and distribution. >> fascinating stuff. thanks for joining the conversation this week on "your money." we're here every saturday, 1:00 p.m. eastern, sunday at 3:00. you can also catch me and your bottom line saturday mornings 9:30 a.m. eastern. and stay connected to us, 24/7 on twitter. the show handle @cnnyourmoney. i'm christine romans. have a great weekend.