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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  October 19, 2011 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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mark twain is talking about poll tings in a way that we can relate to now. is he running for president and he says, before i run for president, i'm going to tell you all of the terrible things that i've done so the press doesn't find out about it later. you read these things and think, wow, mark twain, if you were on twitter, would he be following me. >> i will add no comment at all. andy, thank you so much for coming in. >> thank you, erin. >> thanks for watching. "anderson cooper" starts right now. lions and tigers and bears let loose by a man who committed suicide. man who shot to death they didn't have tranquilizers. it's a picture that never had to happen. endangered species now laying
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dead in an ohio farmland, including 18 bengal tigers. >> i won't sleep for a long time even thinking about that. >> jack hanna talking about what he says is the saddest day of his life. later tonight, about those animals. the animals that never should have been kept, where they were, and whose lives never had to live the way they did. sheriff deputies became reluctant hunters in the name of public safety. >> we begin tonight, keeping them honest. holding the people who want to be president to their word. >> you won't hear a lot of shape shifting knew wants for me and want to give you a bit of true unbridled truth. >> keeping them honest, there were a number of incorrect statements made last night at the republican debate.
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let's take a look at the statements. >> 40%, half of the jobs created in texas were created for illegal immigrants. >> that is absolutely false. >> it's actually -- >> that is absolutely incorrect. >> let's look at the study. >> there's been a third party that looked at that study and it's absolutely incorrect. >> the study was done by the center for immigration and what's more, the c.i.s. admits that looking differently at its own data could give a much lower percentage. here's governor perry on the romney creation ad. >> when you were governor during that period of time, you were 47th in the nation in job creation. during that same period of time, we created 20 times more jobs. as a matter of fact, you've created 40,000 jobs total in your four years. the last two months we created
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more jobs than that in texas. >> texas has created more jobs than massachusetts, but that's largely because the state is so much bigger and the population is growing so much faster. according to figures from the dallas federal reserve bank, governor perry is wrong about the last six months. the fed numbers are 3,000 short. the labor department is about 20,000 fewer. governor romney is flat out wrong about this. >> americans are hurting across this country and the president's out there campaigning. why isn't he governing? he dint have a job to play even now. >> the president is in campaign mode traveling to swing states. you can't deny what he's campaigning for. >> last month i introduced the american jobs act. don't just applaud it. vote for it. >> i want you to send a message to congress that this is important. let them know. >> and this is the bill that
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congress needs to pass. >> you should pass it. pass this jobs bill now. pass this bill. we need to pass this bill. pass the jobs bill. we should pass it right away. i have the pens all ready. >> now, other candidates laid into governor romney for the health care reform ep introduced in massachusetts. >> you've blown a hole in the budget up there and offered in obama care which is going to blow a hole in this country. >> that's actually not true. employers, government and individuals pay approximately the same proportion of health care costs after reforms they did before the law went into effect. on the other hand, they found that the governor went too far when he said that the governor's insurance didn't play a part of his plan. some qualified for state covered
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medicaid. romney said they either got help or paid for it themselves. >> the problem is in the first place, several people up here, the quote business people, supported the t.a.r.p., supported the bailout. >> congress as debating t.a.r.p. for the governor association, joe mansion and rick perry. it reads, and i quote, as leaders of our respective organizations, we don't always see eye to eye on policy but we come together with one clear purpose. we strongly urge congress to leave partisanship at the door and pass the package. governor perry said, in a free economy, govern in the should not be in the business. so in one sense he was for congress doing one thing when in fact the only thick they were
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considering t.a.r.p. on the other hand, he was oef posing the same one thing that congress was considering. keeping them honest. other fact checkers have found problems with herman cain's claim that middle and working class americans would not pay more under the 9-9-9 plan. perry, a democrat at the time had no leadership role in the campaign. and finally, keeping them honest, the moderator, me. >> congressman bachmann, you also said at the last debate that everyone should pay something. does that mean that you would raise taxes on the 47% of americans who currently don't pay taxes? >> i said during the debate and the discussion afterwards, i was flat out wrong of what i knew. what i meant to say was that 40% of americans don't pay federal taxes. they pay other taxes, state taxes, payroll taxes, on and on. i made a mistake. i apologize. >> eric joins us, gloria borger and james carville.
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james, i didn't talk to you last night. >> well, when newt gingrich makes more sense than all of them put together, you probably got a problem. i think perry might have helped himself a little bit last night and then he comes out with a version of flat tax. the truth of the matter is, there are only two people up there that have any chance of being a nominee and that's perry and romney and to that extent he -- >> you think herman cain even though he's surging in the polls -- >> i can say that because i'm a contributor. you can't. you're an kor. he has no chance. >> no chance? >> i wish he would but ep doesn't. >> eric aerickson, you like wha
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you heard from governor perry? >> you could see there were a couple of times he had scripted answers, like his response on the reverend jefferies matter. they are asking for an alternative and he went off script several times, including that one moment where he called the lawn service company and said, i can't have illegals, for pete's sake, i'm running for office. that buys into the conservative's claim that he's just there to run for office. >> when you think about the fact that rick pair vee doing the same thing that barack obama is doing to mitt romney. he's trying to remind people why they didn't like mitt romney, why they didn't nominate him last time around. that's exactly what barack obama is doing. so in raising the lawn company
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issue with illegal immigrants, he's raising that issue again just to remind people that, you know what, you think i've got some problems on immigration policy? well, he's not totally clear on it either. and so i think you're going to see him continue to go back to a lot of the 2008 scenarios that mitt romney doesn't want to go fwook. >> it does seem, james, that the barack obama team is focusing still very much on mitt romney. is that the way to go? >> it would make sense. i mean, logically he's got to be the favorite. but you know what? the republicans just don't want to vote for him. and if perry can do anything -- i mean, this guy is a bad candidate. they can't put perry on fox. that's how bad he is. >> what do you mean? >> he can't speak, he didn't debate, he can't do an interview. they can't put him in a situation where anybody might ask him a question.
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>> that's the problem with getting in late. when you're a candidate whose actually run one time before or you get in early, you kind of learn on the job, but rick perry doesn't -- >> how has he gotten this far? >> he can raise money and he was the governor of texas. he went to 30% and now he's at 9%. maybe he will come back. maybe he will get an incremental -- at least last night he went there with a purpose. it was to hit romney and obviously that was successful and everybody jumped in and helped him. but it was kind of odd that he -- he doesn't have a thought out sort of way that he can do things. he's not very good on his feet. he gave a terrible speech to the values summit voters. it's just amazing how good a skill people are supposed to have, how few of them he possesses.
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>> you know, erick, clearly you don't agree with that? >> no. i see where jim is going with this. he hasn't been great on the debates and that's the problem with getting in late. but this is a man who has been elected for the governor of texas longer than anybody. he's been in politics since 1992. even in texas, going back to 1992, you can't get as far as you have gotten and be a horrible politician. but he does have to grow on the campaign. >> it's a whole different issue set, no. you're a governor of texas, that's one thing. this is a completely different issue set. mitt romney is a very, very tough opponent here. republicans are divided. they are not clear who they want. it's a whole different sort of audition that you've got going. it's a completely different arena. >> if rick perry is going for a flat tax, which it seems like there's an indication that he
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is, will that take away some of herman cain's 9-9-9 program snl. >> i think it's going to be a program that it's looking at the income tax. like newt gingrich said last night in the debate, he applaud applauded herman cain for the plan but they should build on the foundation. so we're not going to have a national tax on the plan. it will refocus on perry. but he needs to be ready. >> this guy was a 350 hitter and maybe he'll get his footing. he had an energy plan, a little better debate. he's got his flat tax campaign coming out. he's got to get out and sell it
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because believe you me, that's going to come out and that's going to come out -- >> anderson, i'm ashamed that james used a baseball analogy in light of lsu. >> it's like people saying, are you going to eliminate my home mortgage deduction? he's going to be besieged with a lot of questions about flat tax just as steve forbes was. >> thanks very much. appreciate it. let us know what you think on facebook. coming up, shock in ohio. wild animals let loose from a farm, lions, tigers, bears, and the sheriff calls it senseless killings. we'll be talking live with that sheriff and with jack hanna. >> dramatic evidence that the defense calls terrifying and
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inflammatory. what it showed, coming up. and let's check in with isha. >> tear gas and protests in the streets of athens. [ dr. banholzer ] every once in awhile there's a moment where everything comes together. where there's magic. and you now understand what nature's been hiding. ♪ at dow we understand the difference between innovation and invention. invention is important. it's the beginning. it's the spark. but innovation is where we actually create value for dow,
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well, the terror is now over in rural ohio but the sad news and outrage is just sinking in. dozens of dangerous animals and endangered species cut loose by their suicidal owner. terry thompson. 56 animals in all were roaming the rural country side. this is how they ended up. this is heartbreaking. lions, bears, grizzlies, tigers, shot down. one animal, a monkey, may be unaccounted for. although, as you hear tonight, it may have already died. there's so many questions. why did so many have to be killed? why would a private citizen keep such a collection? why was he allowed to do it at all. tonight you'll hear from the
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sheriff that was involved in the case and jack hanna. first of all, you spoke with someone who got within feet of a bengal tiger? >> reporter: yes. it's really sad. that's the way she described it this morning. it was one of the last animals that was actually out on the loose. bengal tiger. there's been so much debate going back and forth whether you tranquilize these animals and whether you take them down. she had a perfect example. she came within feet of the bengal tiger and actually tried to tranquilize it and hoping that it would take the drug and roll over. unfortunately what happened, the dart went into the animal, the animal reacted and then lounged at her and sheriff deputies had no choice to take the animal down. a lot of people think it's like in a movie, you shoot it with a dart and it immediately collapses. but with a wild animal,
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depending on its size and weight, it could take a while for that drug to take effect and that's just one of the things that folks had to deal with. >> you listened to some of the 911 calls. what can you tell us about it? >> reporter: yes. 911 calls started happening around 5:30 last night. people calling in saying, i see a lion, i see a bear, i see a wolf on my property. the sheriff deputies knew exactly where to go. take a listen. >> 911, what is your emergency? >> that's a lion right out in front of me and was standing there under the street light. >> we just saw the a lion that is missing.
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>> how far off of 40? >> about half a mile. it was going west. >> it's going west. >> it was heading west in a hurry. >> all right. we'll get somebody out in that area. if you see it again, don't approach it, okay? >> i'm far from there. i was driving. >> reporter: and obviously, anderson, that lion had to be taken down a short time later. the big question now for investigator, why terry thompson, a man by all accounts loved these animals, why he set them free and opened the cages and then took his own life. >> a short time later i spoke with sheriff lutz. >> mr. lutz, what's the status of the animals? >> right now we believe we have one animal unaccounted for. that animal could be missing or could have perished in one of
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these incidents with the lion eating it. >> that's the monkey? >> yes, the monkey. >> so there was a wolf earlier on the loose. was that wolf put down? >> yes. it was actually shot last night. with everything going on here -- it had crossed a road from the property that it came from. deputy mary was able to shoot that wolf last night. however, we didn't recover it in time to include it in the count. >> do you know how many animals total were killed? >> we had a total of 56 animals. we have one missing, which took us down to 55. we had six that were transported to the columbus zoo and 49 that were killed and buried today. >> obviously there are people who are going to question, could darts have been used, tranquilizers have been used? it seems to me, you didn't have much time. your deputies aren't normally carrying around animal
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tranquilizers. >> we don't carry tranquilizers in our cruisers. if this had been a 9:00 or 10:00 incident in the middle of the day, odds are high that we may have been able to surround the area and keep everything contained but our biggest problem that we had was nightfall. we had about an hour, hour and a half of light. and we just couldn't take the chance. >> what do you know about this guy, terry thompson? i understand he was well known -- i don't know to you personally or law enforcement in the region who had visited him before. >> yeah, i'm very familiar with terry. i've dealt with him personally before. terry has done local jail time in our jail for animal
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violations. and we knew of him and his situation. >> so authorities had gone out there and checked the permits and monitored the situation? >> yes. the moderation of this complex, he was not using it for an attraction or took for pay. we had several inspectors to inspect things and nobody could ever order is to hit him down. >> i know it's been a long 24 hours. i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. >> well, we frequently talk to jack hanna when the subject is animals in the wild. some people don't understand that taking care of animals in the wild is a totally different experience. jack hanna is director of the columbus zoo and arrived on the scene early this morning to try
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to help out. i spoke to him earlier tonight. >> so, jack, have you ever seen anything like this is? >> you know, anderson, i won't forget this the rest of my life. in between here, noah's arc crashes and the result of it, we have 30 something, 42 animals, i don't know the act animals. thank goodness no human life was lost. i can tell you this, anderson, if these animals were not put down last night, this is a sight you would not have wanted to see. 18 bengals, bears, wolves, probably the largest escape ever. the veterinarian got within 20 feet and actually shot the animal, what did the animal do? come exploding right towards the
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veterinarian done. what would anybody else have done? >> that was just today. even though this tiger had been hit by a dart, it still lounged for the veterinarian? >> yes. it takes anywhere from three to six minutes for a tranquilizer to take effect. that animal is full bore until it takes effect. did it hit the muscle? did it hit the bone? we have the great medicine and rifles and all of that stuff -- >> so even today, that guy shot the animal within 20 feet with the dart but immediately the animal leapt so did the authorities put the animal down? >> exactly. but can you imagine, we only have four tranquilizer guns. whol would imagine that we would need dwarkness was coming within 30 minutes to an hour. >> basically, you had deputies having to respond to this
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immediately trying to stop these animals from spreading out further. they are not armed with tranquilizers because under normal circumstances, why would normal sheriff deputies be armed with tranquilizers. you're saying that they did what they had to do. >> very good point. these deputies are not trained -- they had to use their weapons, their pistols. can you imagine sitting right there in front of them? those officers saved some human lives. >> i heard a report of a farmer who saw, i think it was a lion, going after one of their horses on his farm. >> i've heard that. one bear was found next to interstate 70. right next to that is a property. that bear was about to go across interstate 70. a cat was hit by a car. a cougar or a lion. that's why they have the big, red signs, exotic animals loose. call 911.
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right now, anderson, it looks like everything is taken care of. we found a carcass of the monkey. we don't know if it was eaten and that might be the monkey we're looking for. we took four leopards to the columbia zoo, a grizzly bear and we will check them out, make sure that they are happy and everything and cared for and then figure out what to do. >> what are you hearing about the man at the center of all this, this man who killed himself but not before opening up these gates? >> well, this man was a pilot. this man loved motorcycles. the condition was deplorable. he just got out of prison, from what i understand. his wife left him. the animals were in fill this.
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he says, that's it. he goes down there, lays down and shoots himself and all of a sudden, that ends his life. that's great. but out here, 18 bengal tigers lost their liveses. i will never forget what this is. lions, bears, if you saw this carnage laid out up there, that's why they are buried right now. we buried them about an hour ago. we dug a hole and they are buried up there. >> what's that like, you've spent your whole life saving animals and teaching people about animals, to see the bodies of these animals laid up like that? >> i'm a pretty bold person, anderson, but what really got me was the wife -- nothing is left, except for the little primates and a fi cats. she said, my husband is dead, he killed my whole family.
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she was shaking violently. they said she was mad at me so i was getting ready to have a confrontation. you know what i did? i started crying. that may sound corny to you. i can understand the love for animals. there's a love for animals but they don't understand what you're doing. she said, you're taking my children. i'm not taking your children. i'm taking them to the columbia zoo to give them a proper home. that's what i'm trying to do for you. i don't know what's going to happen to her. you can see the carnage. yes, i cried. >> a lot of people love animals but loving animals, that doesn't mean that you can care for an animal nor should that mean that you should buy or house an animal. >> you're right. you're buying a bunch of loaded guns, is what you're doing. and you're waiting for them to go off. that's what happened out here today. >> jack hanna, i know it's been a long day and night for you.
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thank you. we appreciate it. >> thanks, anderson. up next, secretary state clinton stopped in afghanistan. what she hopes to accomplish. and the michael conrad trial resumed again today. at bayer, we've been relieving pain for over 100 years.
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and in crime and punishment, the state is wrapping up their
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case. first, isha is joining us for this news bulletin. >> secretary of state hillary clinton landing for an unannounced visit in afghanistan. she's meeting with president karzai to discuss the commitment there along with afghanistan's relationship with pakistan. violent clashes outside of the parliament in athens as they prepare to vote on budgets cuts that could mean thousands of job losses. apple employees paying tribute to steve jobs. apple stores across the country closed their doors to take part in a webcast. remembering the company's co-found dr. no doubt an emotional day for apple employees. michael winslow, the 1,000 voices from the police academy movies? maybe not.
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he appeared on a norwegian talk show to prove that he can do led zep plin's "a whole lot of love." that is pretty incredible. it's all him. >> i thought it sounded like a whole lot of noise. >> you're not impressed? >> i'm not impressed. but then again, i was sitting here thinking, i don't think i know any led zeplin songs. >> well, i got that sense as well. i got that sense as well. >> don't worry, i grew up
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listening to bugs fears. >> excuse me? >> it's a group from england. >> i don't know if i clearly heard what you said there. >> google it. >> this should be kept clean. it's a family show. >> i'm trying. >> i don't know what you're talking about. >> i'll get you a clip. >> i make you nervous. >> go ahead. serious stuff straight ahead. drl conrad murray's lawyer is starting to make their case but not before prosecutors call one final witness. what he's saying about what could have done to save michael jackson's life. and lindsay lohan is back in handcuffs. what a judge said she didn't do that got her in trouble this time. whoa. whoa. how do you top great vacations? whoa. getting twice the points on great vacations. whoa!
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crime and punishment tonight. an emotional day in the michael jackson trial. the doctor that took the stand today questioned conrad murray's practice and his priorities. >> when dr. murray agreed to treat michael jackson with propofol, he thought about himself, not about michael jackson. >> reporter: taking the stand today, anesthesiologist that said propofol is an outstanding drug and if in the right hands would not have caused the death of michael jackson. >> every day i'm asked in the
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operating room and i'm asked, are you going to give me the drug that killed michael jackson. i get that question daily. this is a fear that patients do not need to have. >> reporter: dr. steven shafer presented this video to the jury about how to administer propofol safely. >> he's doing a review of the machine, checking the he quipment and making sure that everything is in the proper place. it's not surprising that we're starting our setup with airway equipment because the single most important aspect of anesthesia, ever, is continued movement of air into the lungs. >> reporter: this photo shown earlier in the trial is michael jackson's bedroom, where dr. murray said he administered a small dose of propofol on the day he died.
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prosecutors say that murray had none of the necessary equipment to monitor jackson while under sedation or to revive him in an emergency. shafer made the point that quick action is needed when the patient goes into cardiac arrest. >> the heart has stopped beating, patient is not breathing. this is a cardiac arrest. again, you have to respond instantly. and i cannot emphasize enough the first response to an emergency. those of you who have taken a cpr course may remember the instructions for cpr. you find a person who is unresponsive, what's the first thing you do? call for help. >> according to the prosecute cushion time line, murray didn't call for help until 12:22, more than 20 minutes later. >> the facts in this case, in my view, suggest that virtually none of the safeguards for
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sedation were in place when propofol was administered to michael jackson. >> shafer said jackson's life could have been saved if murray took the necessary precautions. but the bottom line, according to shafer, murray never should have give inmichael propofol in the first place. >> if dr. murray had acted like a doctor, the very first time michael jackson said, i need propofol to sleep, a doctor would say, you have a sleep disorder and you need to be seen by doctors who specialize in sleep disorders, not by having me show up with propofol. >> the defense is expected to start its case on fli. they will try to convince the jury that michael jackson accidently killed himself by administering the final dose of propofol. the jury could possibly get this case for deliberation some point next week. >> let's bring in mark geragos
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and sunny hostin from our sister network trutv. mark, dr. shafer says that dr. murray was more like an employee for michael jackson, not a doctor. pretty damaging stuff. >> well, it is for the evidence of gross negligence. and the prosecution has done a whale of a job proving that he was grossly negligent. the problem they've got is in order to convict dr. murray, they have to prove that his gross negligence caused the death. and i don't know that they've made that burden. their burden is beyond a reasonable doubt the pro pop poe follow and theed a minute strering is what caused his debt. it's the idea of causation. >> sunny, do you think they have enough evidence? >> i don't know what trial, mark, you're watching. the bottom line is, not only has
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the prosecution proved that conrad murray did not have the proper monitoring equipment, they proved that he shouldn't have been putting michael jackson to sleep with propofol but for those actions michael jackson would still be alive today. witness after witness after witness has testified to that. >> do you know what the problem is, when you do these packages, and i don't mean to condemn cnn, and i love cnn, and all you show is the direct testimony with the prosecution's case -- >> they haven't done anything on cross-examination. >> exactly. exactly. and that's why -- wait until tomorrow and then ask one question of this doctor. i predict that the question will, be, aren't all of your conclusions that you just testified to yesterday based on an i.v. drip? and when the doctor says yes then they will say, this wasn't an i.v. drip? right. sole where are we left? >> that's not how it's going to
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happen. >> that's the problem. this is espn doing an nfl -- this is -- i'm just going to tell you something. you can't look at a trial as if it's an nfl football game. he is presumed innocent. they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and you have to wait until all of the evidence is in. so far, i don't think they have met their burden on causation. >> it's interesting, sunny, he could be facing four years in prison but there's a new law in california that means he may not serve any time in prison. >> that is right. the maximum jail sentence is four years but there's a new law in california that is sort of intended to relieve this prison overcrowding. if you're a nonviolent offender, your first offense, you get to serve your time in the county jail and your time is cut by 50% and then the rest of your time could be served at home on house
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arrest. but the bottom line, he will lose his medical license. >> even if he is found guilty, we are a long way from that, but even if he is found guilty, chances are he would not see any jail time? >> it's called the alignment. just took effect october 1st. exactly what would happen is he falls under this provision that, number one, even more realignment, he never would have done more than two years actual, even if the judge maxes him out and he could be eligible for the electronic monitoring. but as i've told you before, he caught the biggest break in the world when prosecute aors did n charge him with implied malice murder. right now he's kind of playing with house money. >> mark geragos and sunny hostin, thank you. say it isn't so.
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was really sleeping on live television? the ridiculous is coming up. but first isha? >> calling an outrageous terror attack against turkey. soldiers were killed in the southeastern turkish town. secretary state hillary clinton blamed the attack from a kurdish
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group. lindsay lohan was led out of a courtroom in handcuffs today after a judge revoked her probation. she has not been showing up for community service at a women's center. she said it wasn't, quote, fulfilling. she now has to do service at the l.a. county morgue. a 1,000-year-old fully in a viking warrior buried in his boat along with the sword, sphere, and ax. the whole enchill lad da. >> let's look at what is coming up on piers morgan tonight. piers? >> a stunning debate last night. i thought you were a boxing
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referee at one stage. >> i let them do what they were going to do. it was fascinating. >> very, very interesting and entertaining. tonight, we have herman cain with me for the hour. it's a fascinating insight that really, really is known as the pizza guy with the charming grim. he talks about growing up and his faith and how he battled back from cancer after being given a 30% chance of survival. and what he really thinks of his chances in the republican race. all that and more. back to you, anderson. just because his eyes were closed doesn't necessarily mean that he was sleeping on live television. the ridiculous is next. i'm not a number.
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i'm not a line item on a budget. and i'm definitely not a pushover. but i am a voter. so washington... before you even think about cutting my medicare and social security benefits... here's a number you should remember. 50 million. we are 50 million seniors who earned our benefits... and you will be hearing from us... today and on election day. ♪
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time now for the ridiculous. it's kind of a bed time story, featuring harry bontapele and watch what happened when it came to talk to the morning news team at krak. >> good morning, harry. harry, wake up. harry? wake up, wake up. okay. this is your wake up call,
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harry. >> um, indeed. this is a classic journalistic dilemma. it's early in the morning, the celebrity is all miked up, you have your questions ready and what is a news team to do? >> i have been doing this for quite some time now and i have never seen that. >> come on. >> let's just say this. the way this works is, they do a lot of interview -- early morning, a lot of them -- and perhaps obviously if he could hear us he -- >> i don't think he could really hear us. >> in the business, we like to call this technique stretching, just basically talking until the thing that was supposed to happen has happened. sadly, it does not always work. >> does r.e.m. sleep? he was just -- >> yeah, he couldn't hear. he couldn't hear. he couldn't hear. oh, and he's taking a nap over there. >> it's r.i.m. sleep.
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>> well, harry was never asleep. i quote, he was not sleeping. in what is the most awesome statement ever, here is his publicist. his ear piece wasn't working so he decided to take the the time to meditate before his rest of his day-o. mr. belafonte and i agree it is quite beneficial. i definitely feel my best when i can meditate seven to eight hours a night. here's vice president biden meditating during a speech. here's a little puppy trying to meditate on a set of stairs. there are even times when news anchors meditate on the air. >> that lovely stretch where we -- >> hello? >> half of our ice. >> you went crooked and