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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  October 19, 2011 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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>> my favorite pizza is obviously with a nice tangy tomato sauce, and i like a lot of italian sausage on it. but i like a lot of meat. >> so a bit like you. fiery. >> yes. >> emotional. >> yes. >> passionate. >> meaty. >> bursting in meat and substance. >> yes. substance. thanks, piers. >> it was a pleasure. >> it was a pleasure. i've enjoyed it. >> that's all for us tonight. "ac 360" starts now. tonight, one man's obsession with wild animals. his dying act that unleashed his collection of predators on the public. and the deadly force taken to stop what could have been a lethal feeding frenzy. it all adds up to a very ugly picture. we have to waurn. the picture of a tragedy that never had to happen. endangered animals, some nearly extinct, now lying dead in ohio farmland, including 18 of the rarest bengal tigers. >> can you imagine 18 of them running around in the neighborhoods here this morning? i won't sleep for a long time even thinking about that. >> jack hannah talking about
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what he says is the saddest day of his life. we'll hear more from him later tonight about those animals. the animals that never should have been kept, where they were, and whose lives never had to end the way they did. you'll hear as well from the local sheriff whose deputies became reluctant hunters in the name of public safety. we're live on the scene later this evening. we begin however tonight keeping them honest, holding the people who want to be president to their word. >> you won't hear a lot of shape-shifting nuance from me. i'm going to give the american people a huge, big old helping of unbridled truth. >> texas governor rick perry today promising to be a truth teller, suggesting his gop rivals are not. keeping them honest, though, last night there were a number of incorrect statements made at the republican debate. let's take a look at some of the statements made and how they fit the facts. >> over the last several years, 40%, almost half the jobs created in texas were created for illegal aliens, illegal immigrants. >> that is an absolute falsehood on its face, mitt.
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>> you have 30 seconds, governor perry. >> that is absolutely incorrect, sir. >> take a look at the study. >> there's been a third party -- take a look at that study, and it is absolutely incorrect. >> well, the study in question was done by the center for immigration studies, and in fact a third party did question how cis got that 40% figure. what's more, even the cis -- even cis admits that looking differently at its own data could give a much lower percentage. now here's governor perry on mitt romney's job creation record. >> mitt, while you were the governor of massachusetts, in that period of time you were 47th in the nation in job creation. during that same period of time we created 20 times more jobs. as a matter of fact, you created 40,000 jobs total in your four years. last two months, we created more jobs than that in texas. >> in fact, texas has created more jobs than massachusetts, but that's largely because the state is so much bigger and the population is growing so much faster. according to figures from the
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labor department and the dallas federal reserve bank, governor perry is wrong about that last part about the last two months. the fed numbers are 3,000 short. the labor department's are about 20,000 fewer. and governor romney is flat out wrong about this. >> americans are hurting across this country, and the president's out there campaigning. why isn't he governing? he doesn't understand -- he doesn't have a jobs plan, even now. >> keeping them honest, you can say that president obama is in campaign mode, traveling to swing states around the country. you can't deny what he's out there campaigning for. >> last month, i sent congress a piece of legislation called the american jobs act. don't just applaud about it. vote for it. vote for it. i want you to send a message to congress that this is important. let them know. >> and this is the bill that congress needs to pass. >> you should pass right away. you should pass it right away. >> pass this jobs bill. >> now. pass this bill. we need to pass this bill. >> and everybody would be better off if we pass it. pass the jobs bill.
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>> they should pass it right away. i'm ready to sign a bill. i've got the pens all ready. >> there's president obama campaigning for the jobs bill that mitt romney says the president doesn't have. other candidates laid into governor romney for the health care reform he instituted in massachusetts. >> you've blown a hole in the budget up there and you've authored in obama care which is going to blow a hole in the budget of this country. >> well, actually, that's not true. a recent report in the "nungd journal of medicine" shows that employers, government and individuals, pay approximately the same proportion of health coverage costs after reform as they did before the law went into effect. the other hand, factcheck.org found the governor went too far when he said the government insurance didn't play a role in his plan. some of the newly insured did in fact qualify for state-provided medicaid. others, as mr. romney said, either got state help in buying private insurance or paid for it all themselves. governor romney fired back and senator rick santorum over the t.a.r.p. bank bailout program
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which president bush created and president obama continued. >> the problem is, in the first place, is that several people up here, the, quote, business people, supported the t.a.r.p., supported the bailout. >> at issue, a letter, sent as congress was debating t.a.r.p. from the chairman of the democratic and republican governors association's joe manchin and rick perry, it reads, and i quote, "as leaders of of our respective organizations we don't always see eye to eye on policy but we come together today with one clear purpose. the letter goes on, "we strongly urge congress to leave partisanship at the door and pass an economic recovery package." the same day, governor perry issued this statement. "in a free market economy government should not be in the business of using taxpayer dollars to bail out corporate america." so in one sense governor perry was for congress doing something when the only thing they were considering was in fact t.a.r.p. on the other hand the governor is also on the record opposing that same one thing congress was considering. keeping them honest, cnn and other nonpartisan fact checkers found problems with herman cain's claim that middle and working-class people would not pay more under the 9-9-9 plan.
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and another false claim, romney saying rick perry was al gore's campaign chairman in 1988. perry had no leadership role in the campaign. finally, keeping them honest, the moderator, me. >> congresswoman bachmann, you also said at the last debate that everyone should pay something. does that mean that you would raise taxes on the 47% of americans who currently don't pay taxes? >> i said it during the debate and the discussion afterward, i was flat out wrong, of course. what i knew and meant to say was 40% of americans do not pay federal income tax. they do of course pay plenty of other state, local and federal taxes including federal payroll tax, gasoline taxes, on and on and on. i made a mistake last night, and i apologize. no corrections or apologies needed for the panel. erick erickson of redstate.com, gloria borger, and james carville. james, i didn't talk to you last night. what do you say about last night? >> when newt gingrich makes more sense than everybody else put together, you probably got a problem.
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las vegas, we've got a problem here. i'd be interested to hear whaeric had to say in particular. i think perry helped himself. he's got a version of the flat tax -- but the truth of the matter is the only people up there with a chance of being the nominee is perry and romney. maybe perry did help. >> you think herman cain, surging in the polls. >> i can say that because i'm a contributor, you're an anchor, he has no chance of being a republican nominee. >> you are saying that -- >> no chance. just no chance. no chance of being the republican nominee. i wish he would, did you but he doesn't have a chance unfortunately. >> you made your point there. erick erickon, i didn't talk to you last night, although i read a lot of your tweets. you liked what you saw in governor perry, or at least that he came basically loaded for bear on stage. >> where has this guy been? they said they wanted to get him off script.
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you could see there were a couple of times he had scripted answers like his response on the reverend jeffress matter and he flupd the script. he went off script, did he well. i think he bought himself a lifeline last night. look, mitt romney is captain, the clear politics average, average the polls together, never gotten above 25%, voters asking for an alternative and the pounding that he got from santorum and gingrich and perry, he went off script several times, including that one moment he said he called the lawn service company and said i can't have illegals for pete's sakes, i'm rubbing for office. that buys right into the narrative so many conservatives have of him that he's just there to run for office. >> you know, anderson, when you think about it, rick perry is doing the same thing that barack obama is doing on mitt romney, he's trying to remind people of why they didn't like mitt romney, why they didn't nominate him last time around, and that's exactly what barack obama's doing. so in raising the lawn company issue with illegal immigrants, he's raising that issue again just to remind people that you know what, you think i've got some problems on immigration policy, well, he's not totally
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clear on it either. and so i think you're going to see him continue to go back to a lot of the 2008 scenarios that mitt romney doesn't want to go back to. >> it does seem, james, that david axelrod, the obama team, are focusing still very much on mitt romney. is that the way to go? >> it sort of makes sense. i mean, logically, he's got to be the favorite. but you know what? the republicans just don't want to vote for him. and if perry can do anything -- this guy's a very bad candidate. they can't put perry on fox. that's how bad he is. >> why do you say he's a bad zmnd. >> well, you can't. he can't do a speech. he can't debate. he can't do an interview. he can't do an ed board. he can't do anything. they can't put him in a situation where somebody might ask him a question. and at some point he's going to have to do that. >> that's the problem with getting in late. when you're a candidate who's actually run one time before or you get in early, you kind of learn on the job. but rick perry doesn't have
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enough time to do that. >> james, how has he gotten this far if he's so bad? >> he went to 30% -- he can raise money. okay? and he was the governor of texas. he went to 30%. now he's at 9%. i mean, maybe he will come back. maybe he will get better, grow. there was some incremental -- at least last night he went in with a purpose. i mean, it was to hit romney. and obviously, that was successful, and everybody jumped in and helped him. but they -- it was kind of odd that he still -- he doesn't have a thought-out sort of way that he can do things. he's not very good on his feet. he gave a terrible speech to the values summit voters. you know, and it's just amazing how of the skills that people are supposed to have how few of them that he possesses. >> erick, do you agree? you clearly don't agree -- >> no, i don't really agree. i see where james is going with this. yeah, he's not good with the debates, he hasn't been great on the stump he hasn't found his footing yet, that's part of the problem with getting in late.
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but this is a man that's been elected governor of texas more than anybody. he's been in politics since 1992. you can't -- even in texas, going back to 1992, you can't get as far as he's gotten and be a horrible politician. but he does have to grow on the campaign trail. and last night i think we were probably seeing a pulse of that growing. >> look, i -- >> it's -- >> i'm sorry, go ahead, gloria. >> it is a whole different issue set, though. you're governor of texas, that's one thing. this is a completely different issue set. mitt romney is a very, very tough opponent here. republicans are divided. they're not quite sure who they want. so it's a whole different sort of audition that you've got going. it's a completely different arena. >> if rick perry is going for a flat tarks tax, which it seems like the indication is he is, will that take away some of herman cain's thunder on 9-9-9? >> you know, it very well could. already seeing steve forbes come out, full disclosure, i have gotten hints of the plan myself and it looks to be a very compelling plan he's going to trot out.
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and i think people will get it in the sense that it's looking at the income tax -- like newt gingrich said last night in the debate, he applauded herman for his plan but he said we probably need to build in reform on the existing foundation, which is the way perry's going. so we're not going to have this debate on a national sales tax under the plan. it will completely refocus the debate on perry. but then to james's point, he's going to have to be ready for the questions on his plan. >> and look, i think it's smart politics for him to do this, but he's been -- this guy is -- he's a .350 hitter in aaa that has gotten smoked by every curveball he's seen. he can't do anything. maybe he'll get his footing and maybe he's -- there's a reservoir of skill left somewhere. he had a little energy plan. he had a little bit of a debate. he got his flat tax thing coming out. and he's got to go out and sell it and defend it. because believe me, the distribution table's going to come out, this is going to come out, that's going to come out and he's got to learn on his feet. >> anderson, i have to say i'm very disappointed james use the a baseball analogy instead of
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saying he's like tennessee playing lsu. >> when this flat tax comes out, people are going to say are you going to eliminate my home mortgage deduction? you know, he's going to be besieged with questions about a flat tax. just like steve forbes was when he ran -- >> he's got a couple weeks before the next debate. so. >> right. >> glorgia borger, erick erickson, james carville, thank you very much. let us know what you think we're on facebook, follow me on twitter, @andersoncoop yerp. coming up shock in ohio, a menagerie of wild animals let loose from a farm by a guy who then killed himself. we're talking bears, lions, wolves, tigers, most now dead in what a sheriff calls senseless killings. a closer look at why and how this happened. i'll be stalking with that sheriff, also with animal xbt jack hanna live at the scene. at the michael jackson doctor trial. something the defense called inflammatory. isha. tear gas and anger in the streets of athens. we'll tell you what has demonstrators so fired up. that and more when "360" continues. 's probably totaled.
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dangerous predators and endajd species, kept in a collection and then apparently cut loose by their suicidal owner, a man named terry thompson. 56 animals in all were roaming the rural countryside. this is how most of them ended up. if you love and respect animals, this is simply heartbreaking. lions, bears, grizzlies, 18 bengal tigers, most of them hunted down and killed in the name of public safety. only a few of them saved and being cared for tonight at the columbus zoo. just one, a monkey, that may be unaccounted for. although as you'll hear tonight, it may have already died. there's so many questions. why did so many have to be killed? why would any private citizen keep such a collection? why was he allowed to do it at all? in a moment, you'll hear from the local sheriff who led the fateful hunt today. also, we'll talk to wild animal expert jack hanna, who arrived on the scene. first, though, the very latest from jason carroll in zanesville, ohio. jason-u spoke to someone working with the sheriff's office who confront aid bengal tiger. she got within feet of it, right? >> oh, yeah, anderson.
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it was really sad. that's the way the director of wildlife at the columbus zoo described it this morning. it was one of the last animals that was actually out on the loose, a bengal tiger. there's been so much debate as you know, going back and forth about whether you tranquilize these animals or whether or not you try to take them down. she has a perfect example. she told me, again, she came within feet of this bengal tiger and she actually tried to tranquilize it, hoping that it would take the drugs and that it would roll over. but unfortunately, what happened, anderson, as was the case with so many wild animals, the dart went into the animal, the animal reacted, then lunged at her, and then sheriff's deputies had to choice but to taye take the animal down. i think a lot of people think it's like in a movie where you shoot the animal with a dart and then it immediately collapses. but with a wild animal, depending upon its size, how much it weighs, it could take a while for that drug to take effect. and that's just one of the things that folks out here had to deal with in terms of trying to take down all these wild
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animals on the loose. >> jason, you've obtained some of the 911 calls. what can you tell us about them? >> reporter: yeah. well, 911 calls started coming in around 5:00 yesterday to the sheriff's department, people calling in sxaying i see a bear on my property, i see a lion on my property, i see a wolf. everyone in the area very familiar with terry thompson and his reserve of the animals that he had. so sheriff's deputies knew exactly where to go. take a listen. >> 911, what is your emergency? >> there's a lion on mount perry road and brayshaw. >> there's a big horse farm. i just drove by and walked out in front of me and it was standing there under the streetlight. >> s.o., we've got one of those lions that are missing ouflt muskingum county. >> you just saw it on mount perry road? >> yeah. >> okay. how far off of 40? >> about a half a mile. it was going west. >> it was going west? >> it was heading west in a hurry. yep. >> all right. we'll get somebody out in that area. if you see it again, don't approach it, okay?
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>> i'm far from there. i was driving. >> wildlife -- >> reporter: and obviously, anderson, that lion had to be taken down a short time later. the big question now for investigators is why terry thompson, a man by all accounts from everyone that i've spoken to out here, loved these animals-y he opened up the cages and set them free and then took his own life. anderson? >> jason, thanks for that. a short time ago i spoke with the local sheriff, matthew lutz. >> so sheriff, what's the latest on the status of the animals? >> right now we have one animal that we believe is unaccounted for. that animal could be missing. however, it would have been -- it could have perished in this incident with one of the lions eating it. >> that's the monkey you're talking about? >> yes, i'm sorry, the monkey. >> so there was also a wolf earlier today that was still on the loose. was that wolf put down? >> yes. it was actually shot last night.
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in everything that was going on here. it was actually -- had crossed a road from the property that it came from. deputy mary was able to shoot that wolf last night. however, we just did not get it recovered in time today to get it into the count. >> do you know in total how many animals were killed? >> we had a total of 56 animals. we have one missing. which took us down to 55. we had six that were transported to the columbus zoo. and we have 49 that were killed and buried today. >> obviously, you know, there are people who are going to question, could darts have been used? could tranquilizers have been used? it seems to me you didn't have much time. i mean, your deputies, obviously, aren't normally carrying around animal tranquilizers. >> we don't carry tranquilizers in our cruisers. if this had been a 9:00 or 10:00 incident in the middle of the day, odds are high that we may have been able to surround the
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area and keep everything contained, but our biggest problem we had in this whole thing was nightfall. we had about an hour to an hour and a half of good light. and we had several animals roaming free on this property going into darkness and we just couldn't take that chance. >> what do you know about this guy, terry thompson? i understand he was well known to -- i don't know if to you personally or to lane forcement authorities in the region who had visited him before. >> yeah, we're very familiar with terry. i was very familiar with him personally. we've been to his house on numerous occasions on investigations. terry has done some local jail time in our jail for animal violations. aand you know, we knew of him and knew of the situation. >> so authorities had been out to check his permits and to monitor him as best they could over the years? >> yeah. the moderation of this complex,
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basically, you know, he was not using it as an attraction to show people or to take for pay. so the bottom line was, you know, we had had several different agencies out there, several different officials out there to inspect them and all those kinds of things. and you know, nobody could ever order us to shut him down. >> sheriff lutz, i know it's been a long 24-hour period for you. i appreciate your time tonight. thank you. >> thank you. >> well, we frequently talk to jack hanna when the subject is wild animals. sometimes the stories deal with people who don't understand that caring about such animals is one thing is actually taking care of them, something else entirely. but never in our experience or his have we seen anything quite like this. jack hanna is director emeritus of the columbus soo and host of "jack hanna's into the wild." he arrived on the scene early this morning to try to help out. i spoke to him earlier tonight. so jack, have you ever seen anything like this is? >> you know, anderson, i won't forget this for the rest of my life. i'm trying to picture what this
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is like. all i told somebody was columbus zoo, one of the finest zoos in the world, 50 miles, 10,000 acres behind me, ten miles, and in between here, noah's ark crashes. you know, and as a result of it we have 30-something, maybe 42 animals, i don't know the exact number. dead now. thank goodness no human life was lost. but i can tell you this, anderson, if these animals hadn't been put down last night, this would have been a sight you that wouldn't have wanted to see this morning. 18 bengal tigers, as the sheriff says, coming down a road, or all of he them spread out. grizzly bears, wolves, leopards. can you imagine this? probably one of the largest escapes in the history of this country. this afternoon about 3:00 we found a tiger laying in the grass over there. you know, just kroushd down. the veterinarian got within 20 feet -- our veterinarian that's an excellent shot. shot the animal. what did the animal do? come exploding right toward the veterinarian. what would anybody have done? >> so even though this tying dwlaerks was ju tiger, even though it had been hit by a dart it still lunged for the veterinarian? >> yeah. see, anderson, it takes anywhere
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from three to six minutes for a tranquilizer to even begin to take effect. begin to take effect. nothing happens. that animal's full-blown for three to six minutes until it goes to sleep. plus you have to hit it in the muscle. did you hit the bone part? did the plunger go in? it's pretty good today, we have the great medicines, the great rifles, all of that stuff, but you're not 100%. >> so even today that guy got within 20 feet, shot the animal with the dart, but immediately the animal leapt. and so what? deputies put the animal down? >> exactly. but last night, can you imagine, anderson? we only have four tranquilizer guns. whoever thought that 40-something animals would be running around? 18 tigers with four tranquilizer guns in the dark? i mean, darkness was coming within 30 minutes to an hour. something had to be done. >> basically, you had deputies having to respond to this immediately, trying to stop these animals from spreading out further. they are not armed with tranquilizers because under normal circumstances why would sheriff's deputies be armed with tranquilizers?
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you're saying they had to do what they had to do. >> very good point, anderson, first one to bring it up. these deputies are not trained -- some of them had to use their weapons, their pistols. can you imagine sitting right there in front of them? these deputies hadn't been trained in this. >> i heard -- >> those officers saved some human lives. >> i heard one person, one report of a farmer who saw i think it was a lion going after one of their horses on his farm. >> i've heard that. right now, one bear was found next to interstate 70 here. 70's right here next to me. and there's the property. that bear was getting ready to go across tinterstate 70. that bear was -- one cat was hit by a car, a cougar, a lion, not sure what it is there. that's why the interstate has big, red signs. exotic animals loose. call 911. right now, anderson, it looks like everything is taken care of. there was one monkey left. right now we found a carcass of a monkey. you're one of the first people i told this. looks like we found the carcass of a monkey.
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we don't know. it was eaten. and that might have been the monkey we were looking for. we took four leopards to the columbus zoo, a grizzly bear and three primates up there right now that were just left there. and that was all. and we took those to the zoo right now until we can check them out, make sure they're happy and everything, all cared for and then legally figure out what to do. >> what are you hearing about the man at the center of all this, this man who killed himself but not before opening up these gates? unsecuring these gates? >> well, this man was a pilot. this man made motorcycles. this man loved to collect exotic animals but they were in filthy conditions from what i understand from my people that went up there. he just got out of prison, from what i understand. his wife left him. this guy comes out of prison, sees these animals in filth, he says, that's it. he cuts all the cage wire. opens the doors, goes in there lays down and shoots himself. to his life that's great. but to us out here, 18 bengal
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tigers lost their lives, anderson. i'll never forget what that is. bengal tiger, 1400 left in the world, 18 gave their life today. lions, bears. if you saw this carnage laid out up there, that's why they're buried right now. they buried them about an hour ago. took them up, dug a big hole and buried up there. >> what's that like, for someone you've obviously spent your entire life focused on saving animals and teaching other people about animals, to see the bodies of all these animals laid out like that? >> i'm a pretty grown person, anderson, but what really got me was the wife came in back. all right? when she heard all this. and she said -- because right now nothing's left. all right? except the little primates and a few cats. she said, "my husband is dead, you've killed my family." she was shaking so violently. finally, i looked at her, anderson, i saw a defeated person. it was wrong what happened no, doubt about it. but what was i to do? i really wanted to -- they said she was mad at me. so i was ready to have maybe a confrontation. but you know what i did? i started crying.
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that may sound corny to you. but i can understand her love for animals. but it was a love that people have, that don't understand what they're doing kind of. even though she had this great love, i said i'm not taking -- she said you're taking my children. i said item not taking your children, i'm taking to the to the columbus zoo to give them a proper home now. i don't know what's going to happen to her. she's lost everything now. buck see the carnage left over after this terrible mess now. yes, i cried when i was with her. >> a lot of people love animals, but loving an animal, that doesn't mean you can care for an animal, nor does that mean you should buy and house an animal. >> you're right. >> that should not be in someone's private home. >> you're right, anderson. what you're doing is you're buying a bunch of loaded guns is what you're doing. you're buying a bunch of loaded guns and waiting for them to go off. that's what happened here today. >> jack hanna, i know it's been a long day and night for you. i appreciate you joining us. >> thanks, anderson. >> that's very sad. up next, secretary of state hillary clinton's unannounced stop in afghanistan. why she's there, what she hopes to accomplish. and the trial of michael
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jackson's doctor resuming today. will a controversial video pl played in court hurt the doctor's defense? see for yourself when we continue. [ inner voice ] establish connection. give me voice control. applications up. check my email and text messages. hands in position. airbags. ten of 'em. perfect. add blind spot monitor. 43 mpg, nice. dependability. yeah. activate dog. a bigger dog. [ male announcer ] introducing the reinvented 2012 toyota camry. it's ready. are you? ♪ d
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and in crime and punishment, the prosecutors in the michael jackson death trial preparing to wrap up their case by presenting a video the defense calls terrifying and claims is meant to inflame the jurors. we'll let you be the judge. first isha sesay joins us with the "360" news and business bulletin. isha? anderson, secretary of state hillary clinton landing under tight security in afghanistan
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today for an unannounced visit. she's meeting with president hamid karzai to discuss america's commitment there along with afghanistan's relationship with pakistan. violent clashes between police and protesters outside the greek parliament. it comes as lawmakers there prepare to vote on budget cuts that could mean thousands of job losses. officers fired tear gas and arrested more than a dozen demonstrators. apple employees pausing to pay tribute to steve jobs. apple stores across the country closed their doors to take part in a webcast remembering the company's co-founder. no doubt a very emotional day for many apple employees. anderson? some might remember michael winslow as officer jones, the recruit with 1,000 voices from the "police academy" movies. well, maybe not. he appeared on a norwegian talk show proving that he can use those vocal cords to belt out his own take on led zeppelin's "whole lota love." check it out.
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♪ ♪ >> i think it's interpret incredible. it sounds like a guitar. it's all him. >> i think it just sounded like a whole lot of noise. >> you're not impressed? >> i'm not impressed. but then again, i was sitting here thinking, i don't think i know any zeppelin songs. >> well, yeah. i got that sense as well. >> oh. >> i got that sense as well. >> don't worry, i grew up listening to bugs fierce. google that. >> what? >> bugs fierce. it's a group from england. >> let me take my i.v. out of my ear so i can hear you more clearly.
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keep it clean, isha, this is a family show. i don't know what you're talking about. >> i'll give you a clip. keep going. you're making me nervous. go away. serious stuff straight ahead. conrad murray's lawyer is starting to make their case but not before prosecutors call one last witness. we'll tell you what he said about the pop star's final moments and what could have been done to save jackson's life. and lindsay lohan back in handcuffs. what a judge said she did not do that got her in trouble this time. whoa. whoa. how do you top great vacations? whoa. getting twice the points on great vacations. whoa! use chase sapphire preferred and now get two times the points on travel, and two times the points on dining and no foreign transaction fees. whoa!
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crime and punishment tonight. an emotional day of testimony in the michael jackson death trial. prosecutors calling their last witness to the stand, an anesthesiologist. he questioned dr. murray's actions during the pop star's final moments and his priorities. >> when dr. murray agreed to treat insomnia with propofol, he put dr. murray first, not michael jackson. >> ted rowlands has more from the courtroom. >> reporter: the prosecution's last witness took the stand today, a leading anesthesiologist who called propofol an outstanding drug, a drug that in the right hands would not have caused the death of michael jackson. >> i am asked every day i'm in the operating room, i tell patients what i'm going to do, and i am asked the question, are you going to give me the drug that killed michael jackson? i get that question daily. this is a fear that patients do not need to have. >> reporter: dr. steven shafer presented this video to the jury
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to demonstrate how to administer propofol safely. >> the first thing you do is you have to do the preparation of the room. so at this point professor hung is reviewing the anesthesia machine, checking the equipment, and going through to make sure everything is basically properly in place. there's emergency airway equipment that must be available. it's not surprising that we're starting our setup with airway equipment because the single most important aspect of anesthesia ever is continued movement of air into the lungs. >> reporter: this photo shown earlier in the trial is michael jackson's bedroom, where dr. conrad murray says he administered a small dose of propofol to jackson on the day he died. prosecutors say murray had none of the necessary equipment to monitor jackson while under sedation or to revive him in an emergency. shafer used his video to make the point that quick action is needed when a patient goes into
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cardiac arrest. >> the heart has stopped beating. the patient is not breathing. this is a cardiac arrest. again, you have to respond instantly. and i cannot emphasize enough the first response to an emergency. those of you who have taken a cpr course may remember the instructions for cpr. you find a person who is unresponsive, what's the first thing you do? call for help. >> reporter: according to the prosecution's timeline, murray first noticed jackson wasn't breathing right before 12:00. the 911 call didn't come in until 12:22, more than 20 minutes later. >> the facts in this case, in my view, suggest that virtually none of the safeguards for sedation were in place when propofol was administered to michael jackson. >> reporter: shafer said jackson's life could have been saved if murray took the necessary precautions. but the bottom line, according
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to shafer, murray never should have given jackson propofol in the first place. >> if dr. murray had acted as a doctor, the very first time michael jackson said i need propofol to sleep, a doctor would say, you have a sleep disorder and you need to be seen by doctors who specialize in sleep disorders, not by having me show up with propofol. >> reporter: the defense is expected to start its case friday. they'll try to convince the jury that michael jackson accidentally killed himself by administering that fatal dose of propofol. the jury could possibly get this case for deliberation at some point next week. ted rowlands, cnn, los angeles. >> let's bring in mark geragos, criminal defense attorney, who once represented michael jackson, and sunny hostin, a former federal prosecutor and legal contributor for "in session" on our sister network, trutv. mark, dr. shafer says that dr. murray was more like an employee to michael jackson than he was a doctor, basically taking orders from the patient.
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pretty damaging stuff. >> well, it is for the element of gross negligence. and the prosecution has done a whale of a job proving he was grossly negligent. the problem they've got is in order to convict dr. murray they still have to show that his gross negligence caused the death. and i don't know that they've made that burden. their burden is beyond a reasonable doubt that the propofol and the administering of it is what caused this cardiac arrest. and i think that's what the jury's going to be wrestling with. and that's certainly what the jury instruction is going to say. this idea of causation. >> sunny, do you think his gross negligence caused the death, by not having the right equipment even in the room? >> there's no question about it. i don't know what trial, mark, you're watching. the bottom line is, not only has the prosecution proved that conrad murray did not have the proper monitoring equipment, they proved that he shouldn't have been putting michael jackson to sleep with propofol. but for those actions, michael jackson would still be alive today.
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witness after witness after witness has testified to that. >> you know what the problem is? is when you do these packages -- and i don't mean to condemn cnn. i love cnn. and all you do is show the direct testimony with the prosecution's case -- >> they haven't done anything on cross-examination. >> exactly. and that's why -- wait until tomorrow and they ask one question of this doctor. i predict that the question will be, aren't all of your conclusions that you just testified to yesterday based on an i.v. drip? and when the doctor says yes, then you're going to say, and this wasn't an i.v. drip? right. okay. and then where are we left? how does that show that it caused the -- >> mark, that's not how it's going to happen. >> that's the problem with this. this is not espn doing an nfl -- this is -- i'm just going to tell you something. you can't look at a trial as if it's an nfl football game. he is presumed innocent.
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they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and you have to wait until all of the evidence is in. so i'll tell you, so far, i don't think they've met their burden on causation. >> wow. >> it's interesting, sunny, he could be facing four years in prison, but there's a new law in california that might mean he doesn't -- wouldn't face any prison time. >> that is true. he certainly faces up to four years in prison. that's the maximum jail sentence. but there's this new law in california that basically -- it's sort of intended to sort of relieve this prison overcrowding. so if you're a non-violent offender, this is your first conviction, you get to serve your prison term in the county jail. but the county jail is overcrowd as well. so four four-year sentence automatically becomes a two-year sentence and the bulk of that sentence could be basically served at home under house arrest. but the bottom line is if he gets convicted of this, anderson, he loses his medical license and not only does he lose his liberty then, he loses his livelihood. and that's the what concern is -- >> but mark, it is interesting. even if he is found guilty, which we're a long way from that, but even if he is found guilty, chances are he would not see any jail time.
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>> well, we have what you've been referring to is called re-alignment. just took effect october 1st. and exactly what would happen is he falls under this provision that, number one, even before re-alignment he never would have done more than two years actual, even if the judge maxes him out. and he could be eligible for the electronic monitoring. but i've said before, anderson, i've told you before, he caught the biggest break in the world when prosecutors did not charge him with second-degree implied malice murder because that carries a life sentence. so right now he's kind of playing with house money. >> mark geragos, thank you. sunny hostin as well. up next, say it ain't so. lindsay lohan back in front of a judge. we'll check in with isha to see why. re-inventing aspirin for pain relief. with new extra-strength bayer advanced aspirin. it has microparticles so it enters the bloodstream faster and rushes relief right to the site of your tough pain. in fact, it's clinically proven
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[will be giving away passafree copieselief. of the alcoholism & addiction cure. to get yours, go to ssagesmalibubook.com. turkish troops are striking back in northern iraq. they're moving into the area and vowing revenge after 24 of their fellow soldiers were killed by kurdish rebels. known as the kurdistan workers' party. those rebels are on the u.s. state department's list of designated terrorist organizations. turkey's president has a tough message for the killers. >> translator: no one should forget this. those that inflict this pain on us will endure pain many times over. those that think they will weaken our state with these attacks or think they will bring our state into line, they will see that the revenge for these
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attacks will be very big and they will endure it many times over. here in the u.s. the fda says bad sanitation at a cantaloupe packing facility in colorado may have contributed to the listeria outbreak that has been linked to 25 deaths. jensen farms recalled the cantaloupes last month. lindsay lohan was led out of a courtroom in handcuffs today after a judge revoked her probation. lohan apparently hasn't been showing up for her community service at a women's center. lohan had said it wasn't "fulfilling." the judge ruled she now has to do community service at the l.a. county morgue and has another hearing in two weeks. an incredible discovery in the scottish highlands. a 1,000-year-old fully intact viking grave. british archaeologists found the grave of a viking warrior who was buried in his boat along with a sword, shield, spear, and ax. and french president nicolas ar sowsy and his wife, carla bruni, welcoming the birth of a new daughter.
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a close family friend says the new mother is doing well. this is the couple's first child, though president sarkozy has three from a previous marriage. now back to anderson. erin burnett "out front" is ahead at 11:00 p.m. eastern. erin, what's next? >> we're going to talk about a flat tax. last night in your debate rick perry said we're going to have an economic plan by the end of the week and today he said it's going to have a flat tax in it. does a flat tax work for america? we do the math, get to the bottom line and get the numbers. then we're going to be talking about what could be done to make the republican ticket exciting for republican voters. well, a lot of that might have to do with the vp part of it. and one of the men in contention is the republican governor of virginia, bob mcdonald. he'll be our guest coming out front tonight. until then back to you, anderson. >> erin, thanks. looking forward to it. coming up, just because harry belafonte's eyes happen to be closed didn't necessarily mean he was sleeping on live television. we're getting to the bottom of this. the ridiculist is next. i'm not a number.
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i'm not a line item on a budget. and i'm definitely not a pushover. but i am a voter. so washington... before you even think about cutting my medicare and social security benefits... here's a number you should remember. 50 million. we are 50 million seniors who earned our benefits... and you will be hearing from us... today and on election day. ♪
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time now for the "riduculist." and tonight it's kind of a bedtime story featuring the one and only harry belafonte. the singer, actor, and activist has been doing interviews for a few weeks now promoting his new documentary, memoir, and cd. watch what happened when it came time for him to talk to the morning news team at kbak in bakersfield, california. >> harry belafonte joining us live this morning from new york. hey, good morning, harry. harry, wake up. harry? >> yeah. >> wake up, wake up. >> i can't hear anything. >> this is your wake-up call, harry. >> there's nothing --
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>> okay. >> okay. um. indeed. this is a classic journalistic dilemma. it's early in the morning. the celebrity you're about to deliver is all miked up. you have all your questions ready. but he's fast asleep. what is an eyewitness news team to do. >> i've been doing this for quite some time now. i have never seen that. >> he was -- come on. >> let's just say this. that the way this works is they do a lot of interviews all at once -- the early morning, a lot of them -- and perhaps, obviously, if he could hear us he wouldn't have been -- >> i don't think harry could hear us. >> see, in the business we like to call this technique stretching. basically, just keep talking until the thing that was supposed to happen actually happens. it's a good technique. sadly, it does not always work. >> was he in his r.e.m. sleep? he was just -- >> yeah. he couldn't -- he couldn't hear. he couldn't hear. >> yeah. >> he couldn't hear us. oh, he's taking a nap over there. >> it's r.e.m. sleep. sought interview never happened. but there is more to the story.
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harry belafonte was never even asleep, it turns out. i repeat, he was not sleeping. in what is pretty much the most awesome statement ever, here's what his publicist says, and i quote, "his earpiece wasn't working, so he decided to take the time to meditate before the rest of his day-o. mr. belafonte is 84 years young, but sharper and more awake than most who have been interviewing him. maybe the world would be a better place if more people took a moment to meditate." i agree. meditation can be quite beneficial. i know that i definitely feel my best when i can meditate for seven to eight hours every night. hey, look, here's vice president joe biden meditating during a speech that president obama was giving. see, sometimes when you don't get enough meditation at night the whole next day you might fall into mini meditations at inopportune times. here's a little puppy trying to meditate on a set of stairs. there are even times when news anchors accidentally meditate live on the air. >> well, we hit 50 in february, remember. >> oh. well, then i guess it wasn't that long -- hello. you made perkins fall asleep. >> no, no,