us. >> can i have a hug? >> reporter: to have a group hug. thank you! jeanne moos, cnn. >> bye-bye. >> reporter: new york. very nice. that's it for me. thank you for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. we begin with breaking news. a presidential announcement that is important, urgent, yet oddly familiar. >> now today, what i want to focus on is housing. which is something obviously on the minds of a lot of folks here in nevada. probably the single greatest cause of the financial crisis and this brutal recession has been the housing bubble that burst four years ago. >> president obama moments ago in las vegas, nevada. the place hit hardest. his new plan, making refinancing

easier. >> this will help a lot more homeowner refinance at lower rates which mean consumers save money. those families save money. and it gets those families spending it and it makes it easier for them to make their mortgage payments so they don't lose their home and bring down home values in the neighborhood. i'm going to keep on doing everything in my power to help to stabilize the housing market, grow the economy, accelerate job growth, and restore some of the security that middle class families have felt slipping away for more than a decade. >> tonight, conservatives already are calling it another misguided government bailout. some democrats call tight little too late. whatever you think, the president is fighting his own history here. did you get a sense of a bit of deja vu listening to the president? this is president obama a month after taking office 2009 in hard hit, mesa, arizona. >> the plan i'm announcing focuses on rescuing families who

played by the rules and acted responsibly. by refinancing loons for millions of families in traditional mortgages who are underwater or close to it. >> back then, 20% of the nation's residential mortgages were underwater. now, 27% of mortgages are underwater. a state by state look shows the biggest problems are in some big 2012 battlegrounds. 6 in 10 mortgages in nevada underwater. shy of half under water in arizona. obama administration officials won't tell us just how many home owner are likely to benefit from this new program and the truth is this president's history is again at play there. here necessary 2009. >> through this plan we will help between 7 and 9 million families restructure or refinance their mortgages so they can afford, avoid foreclosure. and we're not just helping homeowner at risk of falling over the edge. we're preventing their neighbors from being pulled over that

edge, too. >> you heard the president. 7 million to 9 million. the truth? two and a half years later, the "washington post" reports just 1.7 million families have been helped by the home affordable refinance program. that mesa announcement in 2009 came one today after president obama signed the nearly $800 billion stimulus plan. and he said the combination of that stimulus spending and the housing plan would put the economy on a path to recovery. >> it will prevent the worst consequences of this crisis from wrecking even greater havoc on the economy. and by bringing down the foreclosure rate, it will help to shore up housing prices for everybody. >> sadly, the number don't lie. home values nationally declined 4.5% in the last year. the unemployment rate, 8.2% when the president signed the stimulus and gave that speech of it's 9.1% now. and analysts are predicting a record 1.5 million foreclosures in 2012. will this latest white house

plan finally help? the secretary of housing and urban development is with us tonight mr. secretary, if you go through that history, it pretty sober. why should anyone think this latest plan will prove to be the difference? >> we've taken the housing market that was literally falling off a cliff. and we've stabilized it. it is also true that we haven't done enough. and we haven't gone far enough. and we're going to keep pushing, keep expanding these efforts to make sure that we do get to a point where the housing market isn't just stabilized but it is recovering and recovering in a way that homeowners again have a light at the end of the tunnel and can see themselves getting back above water. so we're continuing to push. today's announcement is part of a broader strategy to keep making a difference in the housing market. those are the facts. >> how many people, how many homeowners do you think will be held by this new revision of the rules? >> well, we're going to finalize the rules over the next couple weeks with the federal regulator

that is primarily responsible here. we're going to have to see how the private sector responds. ultimately, we need the private sector to step up. whether on the streamlining that we've done with second leans or mortgage insurance. if you look at the broad population of who is eligible. about 4 million families that have fannie mae or freddie mac ploens are underwater and could benefit by a refinancing. the average benefit is over $2,500 a year. a substantial benefit for those families. we'll to have see how many of them actually take this up. the other thing that is important here is the kinds of changes that we're making. common sense changes to stream 39 mortgage process. to bring down costs for refinancing could also benefit many other homeowners as well. there are 6 to 7 million borrowers who are above water. that have equity in their homes and could benefit from a substantial reduction in their interest rate. but haven't refinanced.

and so we hope that removing some of these barrier could also help them to refinance as well. that would provide another boost to the economy. >> is it fair to say you're a bit cautious about putting a number on this because the predictions in the past, the president said 7 to 9 million. and under the stimulus plan they said unemployment wouldn't go above 8.1. is part of this caution about history? >> part of the issue is we've gone, we've sat down with the private sector. we've figured out how to make these changes to streamline a process that has been too difficult to unwind to this date. we're going to have to see how those work. what there's no question about is that this is the right thing to do. it is something that will put more money in the family in the pockets of american families. it is something that will help the housing market more broadly. and the economy more broadly. because it is going to be better in terms of consumer spending. the other thing i would say, it is good for the taxpayer in the sense that these will be safer

loans. the fannie and freddie loans will default less because payments will be lower. in that sense it is a win/win for the private sector. for the american home opener. but also for the taxpayer as well. >> appreciate your time tonight. >> thank you very much. >> continuing the conversation with a polythigs thing crisis all too well. dennis cardoza. three cities in his central valley district. modesto, stockton, and the third, fourth and sixth highest in the country. you heard him say this is a win/win. this is finally at least the beginning of the help to get people back. is this enough? >> well, i'm glad the secretary is refocused on this. frankly, i told him in 2009 that these programs weren't going to be enough themselves wouldn't be effective for my district. and they haven't been fiktive for most of the country. where these problems exist.

>> what's wrong them? you heard the president in 2009 themselves sold this at the time. they were very ambitious, very optimistic and frankly they haven't worked out to match the numbers. is it their fault? >> good intentions but they haven't put enough pressure on the banks. the programs were too cumbersome to begin. with in my area, many of the home are 70% underwater. when they limited it to 105 and then to 125% of loan to value, they immediately cut off the worst hit areas. and those markets just continue to decline. >> there's an argument about thissism want to you listen to the former massachusetts governor out in las vegas. he gave an interview. you stay administration hasn't done enough and you talk about those who are way underwater. 150%, 170%. what you view as the government's responsibility to help them. listen to governor romney. a very different perspective. >> don't try to stop the foreclosure process. let it run its course and hit the bottom. allow investors to buy homes.

put renters in and let it turn around and come back up. the obama administration has slow walked the foreclosure process. >> his perspective is that the government willer in get it right. you say it's too cumbersome. too many rules. his perspective is you know what? the government willer in get this right. get out of the way. painful maybe but let the market run its course. >> look at his state of michigan that he is so proud of being from. and you look at detroit. and because of the spiraling values, the homes they 40 now cost less than the car they make. what cars they still make. it is a very intractable problem. when the appraisals and the values start declining, they tend to be a vortex that keep going until it hits bottom. we can't afford as a country to let this problem continue until we all hit bottom. >> you're not running for re-election. >> i'm not. >> how much does this factor in? >> it's a big frustration.

that i was not able to get more people focused on this sooner. the neglect to this crisis until now of the administration. they talked a good game. they put in some programs that i were well intentioned but they simply haven't worked. >> neglect is a pretty strong word. this is a president who is about to go around the country saying i want four more years. i've tried my best to have a democrat saying he has neglected one of the biggest, if not the country's biggest economies. >> this is the administration's biggest failure. without excising this cancer from the economy, you are never going to cure the patient. and i support the president. i'll vote for the president next election. i hope he wins. >> he won't get done what he wants with the republican house. why did it happen in the two steer democrats controlled everything? >> we could not get them to focus on it. >> could not get the white house to focus on it. >> right. >> you tried. >> we tried. we did a lot of meetings. i brought mr. donavan to my district. he told me he had the answer.

clearly he didn't. you showed tonight in your statistics. the statistics don't lie. when i told him that they didn't have the correct answer, they were pretty arrogant about it. he said you don't understand what you're talking about. a former realtor, a former businessman, i think i know what i was talking about. they didn't listen to the members of congress were telling them there was a better way. >> piers: this may sound a crass question. what will the political ramifications be for the president? i don't think you think he'll lose california. but your part of the state which is a little more dicey. >> the president has a chance to get it right. he hope he duxs america needs him to success succeed. it's a baby step. i think it's a positive step. an acknowledgement that the upon is significant. i'm glad he's going to las vegas to announce it. hopefully he'll talk to enough people there that he nldss the depth of despair that's going on in our country. my folks have been living through a depression. and 30% of my folks have lost their houses.

it is significant. it is awful for the people in the families going through it. and it really needs to be addressed. >> appreciate your help tonight. >> thank you. ment? tunisia was the first arab country to overflow it's long ruling dictator and it is now the first country to have an election. ♪ oh, beautiful ♪ for spacious skies ♪

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sun life financial. after five days. letting people view moammar gadhafi's rotting corpse, they are about to let them be buried. they tell reuters news agency, it will be a simple ceremony tomorrow attended by muslim clerics and will be held at a secret location. also torngt reuter reports his son saif al islam gadhafi has a forged passport and was trying to get out of the country. dan, let's start with the burial of moammar gadhafi. this has been quite controversial. his family and the tribe commanding the body back. it doesn't sound like this is going to happen. >> reporter: i think it is going to happen. we were there and they were clearly trying to wrap up the

sort of public display of the body. we're hearing from one government source saying it is likely to happen tomorrow. another unnamed source saying possibly it will be moved by helicopter into the desert and buried out in the middle of nowhere, basically, so that it doesn't become a shrine, his grave. they have been stung pretty badly by the criticism of the handling over his capture. then his killing and now his burial. and i'm sure they want to draw a line under this and move on. >> when you talk about stung by the citizen civil. secretary of state clinton over the week saying we need a clear and thorough investigation of whether as the traditional government says he was caught in a cross fire while they were trying get to him out of there. whether he was executed. how specific has the traditional council been about such an investigation and the transparency of it? >> they said there is going to be a committee effectively set up, looking into it.

it is just how indiana is that committee going to be and how thorough will it be? there has been no independent expert able to go in and examine the body. yes, there was a post mortem but we still haven't been will whether the gunshot wound to the head that we can see was at close range or was from the cross fire further away. i think the more suspicious case, the more difficult case for the ntc is the son. he was shown in a video captured clearly alive and an life threatening condition and then wound up with a bullet in his head work the bullets in his neck and five bullets in his back. no one has explained how that happened yet. >> serious questions for the transitional government as we approach a very important time as they try to prove their credibility. dan rivers in tripoli. and next door in tunisia, the first country to overthrow the dictator. set to announce the results of

the first ever free elections for representatives. they will write a new democratic constitution. tonight a moderate islamist party predicts it will have the most votes. is that likely to prove true? a moderate islamist party getting the lead out of this first round of elections? >> reporter: it does look like it's headed toward a victory. and it was banned in this country a little more than nine months ago when the dictator was still in charge here. not only is this party predicting that it will win but so are some of the parties that ran against it. one secular party in particular. but it doesn't seem like they are going to have enough votes, enough seats to have an outright majority. it will likely have to form some kind of a coalition with at least one other secular political party to form consensus on writing a constitution on forming a new government. and that may comfort some people

who are worried about an islamist party coming to power here who have expressed fear that it could restrict secular life styles or take away women's rights. all accusations the party itself continues to deny, john. >> and they are watching next door in egypt. they are watching in libya. they are watching around the region and around the world. describe for us how this worked out in terms of the safety and security and the emotions of this historic vote. >> reporter: well, the election monitors here, diplomats i've talked, to tunisians themselves are applauding what was, appeared by all appearances to be transparent, free, fair election. and a complicated one. you had more than 60 political parties competing on sun. thousands of independent candidates. and the ballots were enormous. i looked in one district. there were 95 choices that people could pick from. if you consider that you basically had single party rule

here for close to a quarter century. and people didn't really feel like they had any freedom, or any choice on who to vote for. that's a pretty incredible change. to have organized this in such a short period. all the election monitors i've talk to have said this is an incredible accomplish many for tunisians and we have to remember, this arab spring, this arab awakening couldn't have been possible without the first tunisian example in january when the tunisians rose up and peacefully overthrew their dictatorial president and inspired many other arab countries to try to do the same. >> an inspiration then and programs now, an inspiration now. live for us in tunisia. let's get some perspective from the new york time columnist. nick, i want to start with where he we left off with ivan. it is remarkable to see this carries out so soon after the dictator was tossed. will this now be a litmus test

for egypt, the transitional government in libya and maybe beyond? >> i think that it will, frankly. at the beginning of the year, tunisia set an example for all the world. and today it did the same thing by being the first to have free elections. and we're focussing on the apparent victory of the islamic party. at the end of the day, this wasn't just a victory for them. this was a victory for democratic party in tunisia and the entire arab world. >> the president of the united states had a conversation today. he is the military leader of egypt at the moment. the senior military leader. the president says both leaders agreed, they would have an open democracy and things would move quickly toward the elections scheduled quite soon in egypt. how confident are you? there's been a lot of tensions and activists have been quite skeptical. >> i'm not terribly confident of the process and a number of other countries and egypt is one of them. it the mill has been not a particularly helpful part of the process.

in egypt. but tunisia will help. it will set an example once more. and i hope that americans don't just focus on the fact that it was an islamist party that won. i think there's a tendency for americans to have this nervousness about an islamic party winning. if he end of the day, their end is not something like iran. it looks more like turkey where you have a secular democracy run by a moderate islamic party. >> there's a lot of nuance to learn about these. how about libya? how important do you think it is for the transitional party to have a transparent investigation as to whether gadhafi, perhaps one of his sons was just coldly executed, and how might that slow stall if you will, any sort of next phase, next chapter in libya's transition? >> i'm skeptical that investigation will get very far. it is important for the international community. but i think among libyans

themselves, there's probably, a, pretty broad acceptance that probably gadhafi was executed. and b, pretty big acceptance that's no problem at all. so from outside, we may see that as a lapse in the process and it is. but at the end of the day, i don't think that will be something that libyans themselves will focus on. and right now they're the ones in charge. >> we want to cross north africa there. we don't have to go very far to see tumult and change in the region including iraq, when the president asked by the end of the year all the troops will be out, there were some saying does iran win here? after nearly 4,500 american fatalities in iraq. billions of dollars spent. does iran somehow win? i want to you listen to this, the secretary of state saying iran better take notice. >> we have a lot of presence in that region. so no one, most particularly iran, should miscalculate about our continuing commit many to

and with the iraqis going forward. >> what's the biggest question when it come to iran right now about how they get the next play, if you will? what's the next card they will play? >> i guess it's that iran has won so far, since 2003. but part of that was based on the nationalistic resentment on the part of iraqis about our presence, what was perceived as our occupation of that country. now as americans are pulled out, i think it is quite plausible that at that point, the nationalists turn against iran. there's a really difference between arabs and persians. i guess the question would be, once we're good morning whether it become more dill for iran to exploit that kind of anti-pathy within iran for outsiders. >> and the administration decided to recall ambassador ford from syria because they believed the regime was putting his life at risk them say they'll try to get him back as soon as possible. he's been a very important

spokesman and witness for the united states there and the world there. do you think watching what happens in tunisia, what has happened in libya, will it embolden syria? >> first, ambassador ford has been truly an extraordinary ambassador. he's been a wonderful spokesman for not only american interests but also american values in syria. he deserved a hero's welcome here. i think what happened in tunisia and libya will embolden them. they're facing people with machine guns and sometimes boldness and vision and courage isn't enough to defeat an army with tanks and machine guns. >> important points and perspective. thanks for your time tonight. ahead here, rick perry's organization campaign. plus, rexer say debris from the earthquake in japan has crossed faster than expected. ie

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texas governor rick perry is announcing a major reorganization of his presidential campaign adding a half dozen operatives with deep experience in republican and national politics. one man not on the list, karl rove. the former appreciate political guru that was once close to perry but not so much anymore. he offered some unsolicited advice. and tonight address truth.

rove was dead on and governor perry would be wise to listen. he answered with the so-called birther debate. governor perry got off on the right foot saying i have no reason to think otherwise when he was asked if he believed president obama was born in the united states. but then the governor wandered into the birther conspiracy theory mess. i don't know. i had dinner with donald trump the other night. he doesn't think it's real. governor perry when asked about the long form birth certificate president obama released in ax trump as i found out firsthand simply doesn't want to believe it. or at least simply doesn't want to stop getting credit and publicity. >> he didn't do it for hillary. he didn't do it for john mccain. he did it for me. the fact is i get things done. and i don't understand yes didn't do it a lot sooner, john, but he didn't and it's a shame. >> are you at all maybe a little embarrassed for stoking what many in the country see as a foolish debate?

>> no. i think i really did a great job in getting him to, first i haven't seen it. i'm looking at that. i'll look at it later. i don't need to look at your copy. >> to quote mr. trump, governor perry, is to stir the birther debate anew. the truth is karl rove says it best. >> you associate yourself with a nutty team like that and you damage yourself. i know he is trying to cultivate as all of them, are donald trump to get his endorsement but this is not the way to go about doing it. it starts to marginalize in the minds of the people you need to get the election. and there is a simple answer. yes, he was born in the united states. yes, he is eligible to serve and don't associate yourself with this nutty fringe group. >> it starts to marginalize you. good advice. especially when you're a thuk has talked of seceding from the you've and has suggested sending troops into mexico -- >> to kill these drug cartels

and to keep them off our border and to destroy their network. i don't know all of the different scenarios that would be out there. but i think it is very important for to us work with them to keep that country from failing. >> and also, talked of giving the chairman of the federal reserve a not so friendly texas welcome. >> i don't know what you would do to them in iowa. but we would treat them pretty ugly down in texas. i mean, printing more money to play politics at this particular time in american history is almost treasonous in my opinion. >> to be fair, governor perry has run his state for a decade so maybe texas voters know when he is being serious and when it is all tongue in cheek. his national zrouks still a work in progress. and it's been more than a little rough. so it's wise to be a bit more careful. here is the simple truth.

the birther debate isn't funny any way. up next, an important milestone in the trial of michael jackson's doctor. and michele bachmann's new hampshire crisis. what it does to her campaign strategy and the 2012 race. ht these were electric? uh, it is, yeah, it's a chevy volt. so what are you doing at a gas station? well it still takes gas to go farther. but you're not getting gas. true. not this time. uh, don't have to gas up very often. so you have to go to the bathroom? no. yes you do. thought these were electric? yes, it's a uh, a chevy volt. so what are you doing at a gas station? delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet they're closing thousands of offices,

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welcome back. here's the latest news you need to know. thousands of now homeless earthquake survivors in turkey face a second night outdoors in near freezing temperatures. yesterday's magnitude 7.2 quake killed at least 279. pieces of debris from this earthquake in japan are crossing the pacific ocean more quickly than expected. between 5 and 20 million tons of junk, everything from plastic bottles to refrigerators to fishing boats may reach the u.s. west coast in as little as three years. days after meeting with secretary of state hillary clinton, hamid karzai is telling pakistan, get this, he'll be on their side if pakistan ever goes to war with the united states. >> the prosecution rested today in the involuntary manslaughter trial of dr. conrad murray. the defense may finish its witnesses by the end of the week. gabrielle giffords in asheville, north carolina, for two week of intensive therapy as she continue her remarkable

recovery for being shot in the head last january. we wish her the best. erin burnett out front at the top of the hour. you're here with a preview. you had an interview with steve king. this was a very important interview. >> it was an endorsement everybody wants in iowa. he endorsed fred thompson last time around and that's what gave them leg up to finish third in iowa. he went pheasant shooting with rick perry this weekend. we'll talk all about that including, you know, is rick perry as good with a gun as he says. and we'll get to the bottom line. plus a special guest to solve all the problem in washington. i found someone who could do it, john. >> elmo, excellent! >> yeah. i thought it's just that bad that we need somebody like elmo. so we got that coming up. >> elmo would understand the daycare center here. that's a brilliant idea. i'll get the endorse many part

better. i'm interested in the gun part. >> if elmo would endorse many, that endorsement would probably deliver the win. first michele bachmann's staff quit en masse. today they let everyone know why. in america, we believe in a future that is better than today. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams. buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to. ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one. together, for your future. ♪

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on the trail today, the former massachusetts governor mitt romney filed his paperwork for the new hampshire primary and picked up another big endorse many. john sununu who served as the new hampshire state chairman. they then side by side at a rally. >> what happened to the first stimulus? did it work? did obama care work? did the president's plan for trade to trays cost of energy work? >> don't look for michele bachmann in new hampshire any time soon. her entire senior staff resigned and then released an open letter criticizing her national campaign team. listen to this. the manner in which some in the national team conducted themselves toward team new hampshire was rude, unprofessional, dishonest and at times cruel. more concerning was how dismissive were toward the citizens. the hopes of the campaign now rest on mark the word, iowa.

let's discuss the dust-up and more with aide alice stewart. she joins us from little rock, arkansas and do nota brazile. i have to start with you and these tensions between team new hampshire and team national. you heard that. they said the national team of which you are a senior part were discourteous to them. in their words also somehow discourteous to the people of new hampshire. what gives here? >> that's unfortunate. they want to call names, that's their prerogative. we wish them the best. we came off a fantastic four-day bus tour in new hampshire a few weeks ago and we had a great time. enjoyed meeting the people and michelle did what she does best. better than any candidate. meeting the people of new hampshire one-on-one. the great people about the people of new hampshire, they make their decisions on meeting in candidates face to face. you've seen it. it is not about the pundits or the polls or what the pachs say.

it is about meeting the candidates face to face. one or two or three times. she was able to do that and connect with the people in new hampshire and we had a great visit there. at the end of the day, our focus has been on iowa. we man to spend quite a bit of time in iowa and new hampshire is a critical state. we're going to file our paperwork there to be on the ballot this week. our focus will be on iowa as it has been from day one. as a sign. support she has in iowa, she won the iowa straw poll which she did with less money and less time than any of the other candidates. that's because she connects with the people of iowa. >> she did win the straw poll but she's recently slipped in the poll. mr. cain rising in the race. the latest university of hawkeye poll october 12-19 cain, 37, romney, 27, bachmann a 4%. so you have a staff issue in new hampshire. you've been involved in campaigns. these things happen. they're not usually as publicly bloody. iowa, the, if you're 4% in iowa,

she has a lot of work to do. >> it is crunch time. this is when voter look at the candidates. wee been going through dating season. it is time to find somebody that you really want to go to the primary or caucus night with. and it she is having a very difficult time finding track outside of iowa and also getting a single message that will resonate with voters in the caucus state. i still believe this race is volatile and fluid. and if she can pull together her campaign staff, get them refocused on winning the caucuses. she might be able to make a comeback. how much does this hurt you? she was, she did, she had a great new hampshire debate in june. she was rising in the poll. a tea party favorite. you would think it's a good match for iowa. >> she raise ad big bunch of money as a member of the house of representatives. it is true that she had similar kinds of office issues when she was a member of the house of representatives. a lot of turnover in that congressional office. part of it may be the pressure

of being such a national celebrity. and part of it may be that what works in iowa, especially this year, emphatically not to work in new hampshire. it matters so much to those iowa caucusgoers. people really need to observe the difference in the kind of person who votes. you have to be in a room for a long time if you want to participate in iowa, new hampshire, you go, you pull the ballot, you drop the paper. you are much less committed. there is a much bigger audience and they vote in different way. >> have you talk to the congresswoman about this? it has to sting a little. it who is the leave her unnerved. in this letter, the new hampshire said they would like bachmann. most said they will vote for her. they said it sadden this is team to see a person so dedicated so behind a waffle pretense. guarded by political operatives could not soold by their own egos. what is she saying?

i assume she is agreeing the national staff. what is she saying when people give her this letter? >> it is disheartening when members of the staff or volunteers or people who are working with the team decide to communicate with the media as opposed with the campaign. we haven't heard anything from these people. it is unfortunate they chose to make it in such a public way. but at the end of the derrek as we said, new hampshire is important. our focus is on iowa. and michele will continue to do what she does and campaign in iowa. first and foremost, we have to get through the important first caucus state. that's what she's focused on. things come and go. and as they both said, there is a lot of work to be done between now and the time the i'm thatary starts. the voters throughout are through the dating phase. its time to choose who you want to walk through. but this time in 2008, rudolph giuliani was leading in the poll

and governor huckabee came on. and i was with him and i know what it feels like to be at this point and be down in the polls. the tremendous hurdle you have in upon the of you. he just like michele can connect with the people in iowa and share the views and values and to go a coffee shop or a machine shop and really connect one-on-one which is what the people of iowa speck. >> you might not see it on television every nightism guarantee, every campaign right now is making some major staff changes. this is when you shake things up. i became campaign manager in october 2000. >> everybody hang on. stay with us. we'll see you in iowa. i hope you've got cold weather there in little rock, arkansas. pack the warmest clothes you've got. when we come back, joe biden help us out.

ford fusion has now been named the most dependable midsize car by jd power and associates. we go to kimberly. any thoughts on this news? i have no idea what's goin on. we are out. what was that? they told me it's the most dependable midsize sedan and they ran back into their little box. i'm not a line item on a budget. and i'm definitely not a pushover. but i am a voter.

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that she was coming to a place like this! but somebody didn't book with travelocity, with 24/7 customer support to help move them to the pool daddy promised! look at me, i'm swimming! ♪ [ gnome ] somebody, get her a pony! [ female announcer ] the travelocity guarantee. if your booking's not right, we'll help make it right, right away. from the price to the room to the trip you'll never roam alone. tonight's number? it comes courtesy of the vice president. 74. that's how old joe biden would be now the vice president of the united states if he won the 2016 presidential election. he would be that old, 74 on inauguration day. most of you probably thought, wait. he is not going it run for president is he? i thought that too but listen here. he talked to candy crowley this weekend. >> probably in the best shape i've been in my life, doing pretty well, enjoying what i'm doing. as long as i do i'll continue to do it. we'll find out.

let's get the president re-elected. >> reporter: okay. but a possibility. you're not closing that door. >> not closing anything. >> i saw the vice president recently. he is in great shape. how would that match up? joe biden 74. the former governor of alaska, nope. ron paul at 76 is running now. ronald reagan was elected at age 69. john mccain ran at 72 and would have been the oldest president in our history if he had won. ronald reagan was 77 years old when he left office but joe biden in 2016 is that a possibility? not closing any doors. >> it was shocking to me, absolutely stunning. i mean, i remember when dick cheney ran and he said, you know, i'm running with george w. bush and i've given him my word that i will never run for elective office and he didn't. and so i thought biden was kind of on the same page but i guess

not. >> let's listen to a little bit more, listen a little bit more where he is saying, look. i wouldn't have this job now vice president if i didn't think i was qualified to be number one. >> i wouldn't have run for president in the first place. i don't think the president would have picked me unless he thought i'd be good at the job. my job now and will be and remains vice president of the united states and we've got the order right. president obama, vice president biden. >> i'm fascinated by this. it's a theory at the moment, a theory. we'll see what happens in 2012. maybe he has four more years as vice president. maybe obama loses it and biden is sitting out there and would have a powerful job in the democratic party. you managed al gore's campaign. if a vice president winner or loser, walter mondale was a huge figure and ran after they lost, if the vice president holds such huge sway if he runs what kind of signal is joe biden sending by saying not closing any doors? >> it is a long way as you know from 2016 and our concentration is on the re-election of barack obama but when i think about 2016 i think about joe biden but

i've also written down my own list. >> hillary clinton? >> well, clinton. but also in the senate you have kirsten gillibrand, senator landrieu. >> you telling joe biden to get out of the way for the women? >> we have a lot of other male governors, duvall patrick, andrew cuomo. >> david let the record reflect the men were low on donna's list. >> you asked this question. you're presupposing he thought about the question even 11 seconds before he started talking. >> obviously he didn't. >> he was just gassing. again that raises a sharper and more immediate question. why is he on the ticket in 2012? why doesn't president obama want to have a chance to shape the party after him by picking somebody who would be a credible candidate? >> that is the bush-cheney question. a lot of this turmoil in the republican party people say might not be the same. >> and what is this loose person bringing to president obama right now?

that is the kind of thing -- >> if you watch him in small town america blue collar america he is great in the union hall. if joe biden gets rapid in this town a lot but is good on the trail. a good question for the next generation of the party. a lot of people in this town make a mistake. >> you have to include joe biden as well as hillary clinton in the recipe for president obama's success on so many issues. >> he and president obama get along a lot better than a lot of people think. this president really values joe biden. i do not believe he would ever dump him. >> whether you like or dislike the results he's also been important in recent negotiations. >> he won't do that because presidents don't like to question their original choice. but we've had many more vice presidents in american history than presidents. they did used to come off the ticket all the time. >> sure. >> and the habit of not rotating them out does raise a question. if you want to shape the party after you, this is the moment to do it. >> if the polls, if the polls are pitiful in three or four more months this question will come back up again. >> sure. >> all right.

but if the president of the united states is looking, is looking maybe, if he's looking maybe or if people are thinking for the future of the democratic party you would look what, for a star of screen and stage, someone who gets politics, can do a great job in television maybe you'll look for donna brazill. >> i just don't want him to blow up in our face. >> how will he blow up in your face? >> his marriage. >> are you hearing something? >> of course i am. i'm hearing they live apart. and if i'm hearing it the republicans are hearing it, too. >> fe this were hearing it they'd use it. >> no they would do what we would do. release it the day before he speaks. of course you don't have an issue with it, eli. he's in office. when he runs for governor they will use it. they will use all of it. not just on him but his wife too. >> now in the fictional "the good wife" there eli has tried to get peter a speaking spot at the democratic national

convention and donna brazile is saying no way. >> that's right. i had a lot of problems with it. i imagine rahm emanuel sitting across the table and i said, let her go. >> you are tough. one tough lady. >> i looked at eli and i said, that's rahm. >> but that is not acting. how many times have you had that conversation with people trying to get spots? >> a lot. it wasn't acting but a great opportunity. i want to thank the producers and cast. it was great to work with them. i look forward to my next gig. >> how is she as an actress? >> she was terrific. >> thank you. >> better than being a news actress right? >> but i love my colleagues here at cnn and of course abc and other places so i'll stick with it. >> that is art imitating life, david. getting ready for a convention. a lot of people want to have their star. barack obama if not for john kerry in 2004 we might not see him in the white house today. everybody wants those spots and sometimes you have to say no. right? >> sometimes you have to say -- of course the only time anyone remembers is when you say yes. >> i've been lucky ove