>> a size zero chef is like a size zero opera singer. it is not right. >> i will always love it no matter how skinny i get. i don't think skinny will be an adjective used in the same sentence with mario. political war of words being paged from top to bottom from democrats to republicans. it's not our job to tell you who to support on election day. ours is to show you who is waging the war so you can hold them accountable. president obama has been on the road, pushing his jobs bill, and is using campaign style language. today, paul ryan accused the president of in his words sowing social unrest and pushing for a plan for raising taxes on the

wealthy. >> to my great disappointment, it appears the politics of division are making a great comeback. instead of working together where we agree, the president has opted for divisive rhetoric and broken politics of the past. he's going from town to town impugning the motives of republicans setting up straw men and scapegoats and engaging in lazy arguments as he tries to build support for punitive tax hikes on job creators. >> he went on to say that many americans share my disappointment. here is some of the language that ryan and other republicans are objecting to. >> their plan, which is have dirtier air, dirtier water, less people with health insurance. all right. so far, at least, i feel better about my plan. >> president obama in north carolina last week suggesting the republicans favor pollution and letting people go without health insurance. and here's vice president joe

biden when asked by a reporter about the stakes involved in the president's plan to pay to keep local police officers on their job. >> and if the republicans don't pass this bill, then rape will continue to rise? >> murder will continue to rise. rape will continue to rise. all crimes will continue to rise. >> tough talk. the language and tone from this white house has indeed changed as it gears up for the upcoming election, something we reported on in the last couple weeks. for congressman ryan to suggest that it's white house and democrats that are being divisive, that's not fair. mitch mcconnell called on obama to get to work on bipartisan legislation on jobs and designed to pass and not designed to fail. the same senator who said that his goal and his party's goal is to make sure that president obama failed. >> you said "the single most important thing we want to achieve is for president obama

to be a one-term president." how do you respond to those democratic lines of attack? >> well, that is true. that's my single most important political goal, along with every active republican. >> on most important votes, nearly every active republican has taken senator mcconnell's advice. in reality, a lot of their language has been divisive. listen. >> you wonder why the price of gas has more than doubled at the pump since barack obama has been president, it's because of his failed policies. >> they are scare tactics. they have been men to intimidate republicans in voting for the package that the administration wants. >> this administration hasn't sought to transcend politics of washington, d.c. this has been the my way or the highway administration. >> everything good that he said it was going to do, we got the inverse of the president's promise. >> the president has set back and tweeted but you have to do more and you have to lead. >> sample of the gop rhetoric directed at president obama and examples of democrats doing likewise against republicans,

mainly on the jobs bill but the question is how much tolerance do voters have for any of it with 9.1% unemployment? it's pretty clear that it got precious little faith in washington to begin with. and a new cbs/"the new york times" poll shows 89% of americans say they distrust government to do the right thing and 84% disapprove of congress. we invited congressman ryan to come on the show and he declined. here to talk about it, former george w. bush spokesman, ari, you worked for a president who was criticized by the opposition side. at some point, democrats say at some point it's understandable that president obama would use the same rhetoric or tactics that republicans are using. >> when i was there, harry reid, democrat majority leader, called george w. bush a loser and a liar and al gore and john kerry called him unamerican. unpatriotic. you don't see the same vitriol against barack obama. when you go through those quotes, remember 1800.

this is nothing. remember 1800. the election between jefferson and adams was far, far worse. it's part of the noise of american democracy. people don't like it. i think you have to keep it within bounds. a lot of those things are substantive disagreements. there's nothing wrong with that. >> there is no denying republicans have blocked votes for the president and appointments at pretty high levels, probably unprecedented levels, isn't it? >> i don't know about unprecedented or precedent but it's the habit of whoever is there to prevent the other party from getting its appointments through and especially as it gets closer to the election they do that. i don't like that. i regret that. i think presidents should have a free hand in their appointments because they won the election and appoint people and get any more in place, if that's what you're referring to. >> bill, your former boss came to washington and promised to change the tone and rhetoric. it's understandable that there's disappointment among some that they are now using those kind of

tactics to pass bits of a jobs bill and to get republicans to vote on it, even though they know it's going to pass just to get republicans on the record. >> for starters, i agree with ari that some of this is just politics. politics is okay. you have two sides which are making an argument trying to advance their side or their cause. but secondly -- >> especially with unemployment the way it is, people just seem fed up with this kind of politics. >> i think that people would prefer republicans in congress work with the president to make progress on things they agreed on and allowed things through. the president has signaled he's willing to work with republicans and supported the trade bills and supports other ideas that republicans have. now it's time to go back to the jobs act and actually move some more of these things through. when you have mitch mcconnell, as you showed on the screen just now, saying that his number one job is to stop president obama from getting re-elected, you're not going to make progress. all you're going to do is make politics and that's when politics becomes a problem, when it gets in the way of doing anything at all and making progress for the american people. >> is what mitch mcconnell saying accurate or fair?

>> i think what he's saying is he wants to stop those policies and limit them to four years so they don't do eight years worth of damage. i understand that. that's the point he was making. it's not as bad as people make it out to be. go back to the last big clash and that was debt limit increase. the boehner/obama agreement, where overwhelming majority of the republican freshmen voted for it, they compromised and went against the ryan budget and compromised and got this done. the house democrats split 50-50 on it. freshman republicans voted for it by about 75-25. there are things that get done. it's just a very noisy system along the way. i do think that distresses people. at the end of the day, they have been able to work things out. another big test is coming up and that's on the bigger deficit/debt reduction deal due in november. have to see if that can get done. another big clash. at the end of the day, will they get it done? huge issue. >> do you think they'll get it done? >> it's hard to say.

there's a lot of politics that's broken out and that may be okay, the intransigence that you have seen from the house republicans, especially freshmen, has prevented a lot of important things from being able to move forward. in this one case that ari mentions on the debt limit, yes, a good chunk of the house republican freshmen voted for it, but keep in mind, the house republicans control the house of representatives and boehner really had to do a lot to drag them along and get that done. the president wanted to do something bigger. couldn't do it because house republicans stopped it. >> republicans were more willing to work with barack obama than democrats were. that was the point i was making on that initiative. >> there's an interesting fox news poll. they asked whether they thought the president's re-election strategy was to bring people together. 56% said the president's message was going to be hopeful and unifying. 32% thought it would be partisan and divisive. it seems at least this poll, the majority of americans don't agree with paul ryan's assessment.

>> i think what you're going to see in this election is some pretty sharp contrasts. this is a different kind of election because in 2008, no matter what, there was going to be a new president of the united states. in 2012, you have an incumbent president who is in a tough economic time, a tough political situation, and you're going to see him lay out his vision and he's going to lay it out against whatever the republican vision for the country is. i think as those contrasts come about, it's going to be tough. there's going to be tough rhetoric that flies around. at the end of the day, i don't think this is going to be anymore vitriolic than in the past. >> not anymore than it's been? about the same. >> from the past, sure. >> it's far simpler to be the chief executive and one central messenger to cut across and reach the public than the cacophony of sounds that come from congress. that's historically been the case. the beauty of having a bully

pulpit. barack obama knows how to use it. barack obama's problem isn't he won't get re-elected on rhetoric, but his problem is substance and the economy. those are the two thing he's running into head winds on. >> ari fleischer, bill burton, thank you. up next, new developments on the gop campaign trail. everyone wants to know if herman cain is for real. new polling numbers could provide answers on that. john king is here to crunch them for us. follow me on twitter tonight. later, rick perry's journey to birther land and believes that president obama was born in hawaii and is saying something else that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. later, michael pearl joins us. co-author of a parenting guide called "to train up a child" joins us and we'll ask if the brand of discipline his book is advocating is endangering kids. >> why not use your hand instead of these materials? >> let me show you something. does that hurt? >> doesn't feel good. hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices?

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okay... uhh. the bad news, it's probably totaled. the good news is, you don't have to pay your deductible. with vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance, you got $100 off for every year of safe driving, so now your deductible is zero. the other good news ? i held on to your coffee. wow. ♪ nationwide is on your side ( laughing ) it's actually a pretty good day when you consider. that's great. in the republican battle for the white house, there's a new poll from the first four states to hold presidential contests this year, iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, and florida. in two of those states, republican voters have mitt romney and herman cain in a very close race.

john king has the poll results. >> new numbers, anderson. the first four states on the republican nomination calendar. what do they tell us? mitt romney is the front runner. herman cain his principal conservative challenger. romney ahead a tie. cain behind him there. that's a warning for texas governor rick perry down to 10%. why is iowa breaking down this way? evangelicals are critical. among born again kragss, herman cain has the lead. romney holding his own. among those saying they are not evangelical christians, romney leads. new hampshire is next. this one is a runaway for mitt romney. the former massachusetts governor. owns a vacation home in new hampshire. 40% to 13% to 12%. rick perry down in single digits. that's a runaway lead. why? moderate lib republicans support romney. conservative republicans by far support romney. hard to catch in the state of new hampshire. south carolina often decisive in the republican race comes up third.

this is a tie essentially. slight advantage for romney over herman cain. that's trouble for rick perry. he's in fourth place in south carolina. if you're the texas governor, you need this state to have a prayer for the nomination. evangelical support, romney holding his own and way ahead of those who say they are not born-again christians. florida votes fourth. diverse state on the republican calendar and a big lead for romney there. cain the closest challenger at 18%. another warning sign for perry in single digits. this one looks like new hampshire. liberal republicans, they like romney. conservative republicans, romney leads. cain the big challenger. look if that for perry among conservatives. that's a trouble sign. if romney could keep the numbers as they are, 100 nights from tonight, florida votes in 97 days, 100 nights from tonight, he could have a lock on the nomination. that's a big if. these numbers show us clear advantage romney. cain, herman cain, is the

principal challenger right now. if you're rick perry, you have to wonder why are you limping when not that long ago you were among the leaders. anderson? >> fascinating stuff. thanks. ari fleischer, former white house press secretary for president george w. bush and also chief political analyst gloria borger. ari, if memory serves me correct, the headline last night was herman cain was leading in a national poll and now mitt romney ahead in four crucial states. what does that tell you about the field right now on the republican side? >> number one, state polls are more important than national polls. this is a statewide series of elections. number two, interesting piece of data from those polls, 20% to 30% in all of those four states said they know who they are supporting. 70% to 80% could change their mind. this republican race for months to come is still marked by fluid electorate. people are not locked in. the foundations are not secure. anything could still happen, almost anything could happen. >> do you think there are people that could enter the race?

>> i don't think that. i think among romney, perry, cain and something tells me, nobody agrees with this, huntsman in new hampshire, you have to keep your eye on him. things can change in politics and change fast. and nobody having a strong foundation underneath them means they can crumble easily. >> mitt romney leading in new hampshire is no surprise but iowa is a state that romney hasn't campaigned much in compared to his opponents. >> he was there last week for a bit. he hasn't spent a lot of time there. he had a near death-experience there last time. he came in second to mike huckabee and spent money trying to get caucus voters out to vote. it was terrible for him. this time, they have a decision to make. our poll looks good for him, but closer you get to those iowa caucuses, you have to poll the likely caucusgoers. the romney campaign has a decision. do they go all-in and try to win iowa or do they decide, okay, we're in. if we come in second, we can

spin it as a victory. important thing to look at in iowa though was that he was making inroads with those evangelical voters, which was really surprising to me and very good news for him. >> what about south carolina? cain's strength, perry's weakness. >> it's impossible to look at south carolina without knowing the results of iowa and new hampshire. they create momentum for whoever is left in the race when you get down to a smaller field in south carolina. let me go back to iowa for a second. i spent time up in boston with the romney people. when you ask them about iowa, they just smile. what they're really saying is we're not going to go out there and overtly contest iowa but with all of this divide and conquer going on, if these conservatives keep splitting themselves, this could be a romney dream come true in iowa. >> it's hard to secretly contest iowa because you have to organize all of these caucusgoers and bus them into the caucuses. >> herman cain is doing a good job with that.

secretly contesting. he doesn't have much of a staff. >> at this stage, you are still in iowa. even if you don't physically show up there, they still have tv sets and radio stations. they get this stuff. at a certain point, you have to organize and you have to get people out on a caucus night, which is an organizational feat. the time is coming. the romney people are very happy with their standing in iowa without having done a lot of work in iowa. >> it's fascinating stuff, ari. thank you very much. gloria borger, as well. thank you so much. one other political note. last night we have cornell belcher on. we identified him as a democratic strategist and pollster for the obama campaign 2008. he is currently working for the 2012 campaign. coming up, "360," rick perry changing his tune on the birther issue. we're keeping him honest. and dr. conrad murray tears up at his trial. some of his former patients testify in his defense. we'll have the latest from the courtroom today. i'm your blind spot.

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keeping them honest, it seems gop hopeful rick perry is changing his story about where president obama said he was born. he has played with the idea that president obama wasn't born in america. first came up in an interview that perry came with "parade" magazine. he stoked it further on cnbc when he talk about how it came up when he was in new york visiting donald trump. >> i said it's a good issue to

keep alive. donald's got to have fun. >> sounds like you do have doubt about it. >> look, i haven't seen his grades. my grades ended up on the front page of the newspaper. if we're going to show stuff, let's show stuff. that's all a distraction. i get it. i'm really not worried about the president's birth certificate. it's fun to poke at him a little bit and say how about let's see your grades and birth certificate. >> governor perry said it was all fun. some republican insiders like karl rove said that the birther issue is bad political juju. >> you damage yourself. i know he's trying to cultivate, as all of them are, donald trump in order to get his endorsement. that's not the way to do it. it starts to marginalize you in minds of some of the people you need to get the election. >> influential mississippi republican governor haley barbour also spoke up, saying drop the birther talk. seems governor perry may take that advice to heart.

in an interview today with florida's bay news 9, he changed his tune on the whole birther issue. >> jeb bush said republican candidates for president should reject the notion that barack obama was not born in america. this came after you expressed doubts about that. what would you say to him? >> i don't think i was expressing doubt. i was having some fun with donald trump. >> are you comfortable that he's an american citizen? >> oh, yeah. look, it's -- lighten up a little bit. >> you have no doubt he's an american citizen? >> i have no doubt about it. here's more interesting thing. let's lay out our income taxes. let's lay out our college transcripts. mine has been on the front page of the paper. if we're going to lay out all those things, let's lay them all out. >> rick perry convinced president obama is an american citizen. let's hope that's the end of the whole birther thing. somehow, we think it won't be. we're following several other stories tonight. fredricka whitfield joins us now. >> hey, anderson.

new bloodshed in syria. 17 people, including two children, killed in clashes between government and opposition forces as opposition leaders call for a nationwide general strike. and better news in eastern turkey. two more people pulled from the rubble there. three days after the 7.2 magnitude earthquake hit. rescuers have been working around the clock looking for survivors. at least 471 people have lost their lives so far. and residents of bangkok, thailand, are urged to leave town because of rising floodwaters. flooding has already shut down the airport and the worst is expected to come this weekend. and good news for mexico. hurricane rina has weakened to a category 1 and is expected to keep losing strength before making landfall near cancun. and the first commercial boeing 787 dreamliner landed in hong kong today. the jet, not the flight, was

more than three years behind schedule due to manufacturing holdups. 787s are the first airliners made primary of lightweight carbon fiber instead of aluminum. and changing planes. a cat that vanished in baggage claim at jfk airport in new york two months ago has been found. jack the cat was taken to a vet, and is doing well and is being flown to california to be reunited with his owner. anderson? >> fredricka, thanks. still ahead, we reported on the death of two adopted kids whose parents followed michael and debi pearl, the authors of a christian guide called "to train up a child." they say that parents should spank their kids until it hurts. they take no responsibility for the deaths of kids whose parents use their techniques. we'll ask michael pearl about that when he joins us. what killed amy winehouse? we have the answers to the inquiry of her death coming up.

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last night, we reported on the death of a 13-year-old named hannah williams. prosecutors say her adoptive parents beat her and left her in the cold. she died of hypothermia. the case bears a striking resemblance to a story we called "ungodly discipline." 7-year-old lydia was killed by her tonightive parents. both were convicted in the case

and sent to prison. like hannah williams, the girl was adopted from africa. the girls had something else in common. their parents own copies of a christian parenting guide called "to train up a child." authors michael pearl and his wife, debi, says their writings are based on the bible. michael told gary tuckman, the book doesn't advocate abuse but they said it does say to spank their children. >> i don't use the term hitting. >> what's the word? >> spanking. >> and is there a difference? >> absolutely. a hand is hitting. a little switch is spanking. a wooden spoon or rubber spatula is spanking. >> in the book, the pearls describe exactly how to spank a child. they also talked about that with gary. >> let's say a 7-year-old slugs his sister. >> he would get 10 or 15 licks and it would be a formal thing. in other words, you maintain your patient air. you explain to him what he's done is violent and that that's

not acceptable in society and not acceptable at home. and then i would take him like into his bedroom and i would tell him i'm going to give him 15 licks. >> with what? >> probably a belt on a kid that big, a boy. i would probably use a belt. it would be handy. i might use a wooden spoon or a piece of, like, plumbing supply line a quarter-inch in diameter, flexible enough to roll up. >> why not just use your hand instead of all these materials? >> look here. right here. let me show you something. does that hurt? >> it doesn't feel good. >> look what it is doing to your whole body. you don't use your hand on somebody. that's a karate chop. >> you say the material can't cause permanent pain? >> my children never had marks left on them. >> the point that pearls make is that a spanking should hurt. anything short of that is a failure in god's eyes. >> rubbing the spaghetti all over your head, you shouldn't

have done that at 7 years of age. >> okay. that hurts. i'm 50. >> there aren't any marks on you? >> you would hit a 5-year-old like that? >> yeah. sure. >> the pearls deny the book played any role in the death and what happened to her is not what their book teaches. they've release ad similar statement about michael williams. tonight, michael pearl agreed to come on the program to answer some of our questions. i spoke to him just a short time ago. mr. pearl, you're explicit that you are not advocating child abuse or the extremes that cause these girls' deaths in the two cases, but people think they are following your book and end up killing kids, does that concern you or worry you? >> yes. what that does is causes us to renew our efforts to reach these people before they do something terrible. there's a lot of people out there, probably in the millions,

that are abusive to their children. there are men abusive to their wives and wives abusive to their husbands and children and these things go on and where we can, we need to do something about it. >> but you don't feel it has anything to do with what you're advocating? >> of course not, no more than alcoholics unanimous would feel like they are responsible for an alcoholic they failed to reform that had a drunk driving accident and killed someone. >> your analogy doesn't hold up because alcoholic unanimous tells people not to drink. you are advocating people hitting kids, spanking, beating, what have you, a severe form of corporal punishment for parents. >> that's absolutely incorrect. we do not advocate hitting children. we do not advocate any severe corporal punishment. in my literature, if you read

it, i speak against corporal punishment. our book is called "to train up a child." we talk to parents about how to train up their children to be happy, creative, cheerful, emotionally stable and so we teach that in the process of training small children, we use corporal chastisement. it's not to punish the child for misdeeds. it's getting the child's attention to admonish him, teach him and guide him in the way he should go. >> i want to read something you write about what parents should use to spank their child.

you say that you don't advocate hitting or hurting or beating kids or leaving any marks on them, which under the law is considered child abuse, but in fact. in your book, you say spankings have to cause pain and you talk about spanking a baby under 1-year-old with a ruler. how does a baby not end up bruised and hurting when it is hit with a ruler? >> well, you're changing the word spank to beat or hit is inflammatory rhetoric that obscures what i'm saying. >> spanking is hitting. you can argue about semantics but you use the specific example of a ruler on baby under 1-year-old, how does that not cause pain and leave a mark? >> if it were insignificant semantics, you wouldn't be bent on changing the word spank to beat or hit. spanking is understood. i represent 230 million parents who practice corporal

chastisement on their children. they call it spanking or swatting. they do not call it beating or hitting. there's a clear distinction. the distinction is spanking is administered for the child's good and done with an instrument. it's not done in order to create significant pain or create suffering. it's done to gain the child's attention so you can admonish them. >> what about talking about it? does that not work? >> did it work for you and for your family? does talking make a 1-year-old and 2-year-old -- >> i don't try to put what happened in my family to other people. in your opinion, what's wrong with talking to the child about why you don't grab food off somebody's plate? >> if you read our book, you would know that talking precedes that. there's a whole lot of conditioning. >> talking alone is not enough? >> in many cases, it's not. in most cases, it is. but spanking is not something we do all the time.

sometimes you might not spank a kid over once a month or once a year. >> you do advocate carrying around and having in various rooms of the house and in the car in some cases, i want to make sure i have the wording right. you advocate they carry plumber supply line with them so they can spank their child any time through the day. >> i went into an amish woman's house who had ten kids under 12 years old. that's a pretty big brood. she had a piece of supply line about a foot long maybe hanging around her neck. so every time i asked her why it was there, she said when children are disobedient, i have

it at hand and just the presence of it hanging around my neck lets them know they have to walk the line, so they are obedient. i thought that was a humorous thing. i suggested to people that you make sure you keep your swatters close at hand because we don't want to make a big deal out of spanking children. we want to have something ready to where they sit. a boy that reaches over and pulls the hair of his brother, you say don't do that. if he pulls again -- >> you know in both cases of the girls that were killed, the parents kept these plumbing supply lines around the house. the american academy of pediatrics believes it creates fear and intimidation for child that it affects their development by changing the way nerve connections in the brain develop. do you buy any of that? >> there's lots of science, lots of research that's been done and lots of psychologists that disagree with that.

research has been shown that spanking creates children that are more higher educationally and that they are less aggressive and that they are more entrepreneurial and make better citizens when young children are spanked. that's just statistics and facts. 90% of all americans practice spanking. all i'm doing is representing -- >> i don't want to interrupt you, sir. >> all i'm doing is representing what traditionally americans have done. as to your question about the children, no. when you have -- there's been about 1,600 children a year are killed by their parents through neglect or direct abuse. that's an awful number. and the fact that in 15 years of writing books and reaching several million people with our literature, only three parents happen to have our book in their home. that's like saying that an alcoholics anonymous book in the

home is what caused them to have a drunk driving accident. there is no correlation. these parents had the book because they were already molesting their children. one of the parents was making their child eat feces and locking them outdoors in the cold and starving them. those are not things they could get out of my book. those are things that they had a predisposition to. the book there didn't cause those things to take place. i'm just sorry it didn't reach them soon enough to stop those negative habits. >> no doubt about that. the american academy of pediatrics say your teachings go beyond most people's understanding of corporal punishment. they say they're violent and you can't train a child like you do a dog or horse because human brains develop differently at a young age and will respond differently. >> they are a small minority voice in a great number of scientists and researchers who

say differently. >> you say that you can train a child like an animal? like you would train a horse? >> i live on a farm. i have horses and cows and chickens and pigs and all that sort thing. i read a lot. i notice that the zoologists and people that work with animals study animals in terms of how it compares to human behavior. when i was in college and took a course in psychology, there was quite a few articles in there that dealt with animal behavior and how it compares to human behavior. so all i have said is that if you can train a stubborn mule to go up a hill when he doesn't want to go, then you can train a 1- or 2- or 3-year-old child that gets stubborn. the training principles are similar. let me give you the first principle in training an animal. the first principle in training an animal, you establish a relationship of trust.

the first principle in training a child is establishment of trust. the second principle is the animal must know that you are not going to hurt him and you must know that he's not going to hurt you. and that's the second principle in training children. that's to be confident that neither one of us are going to hurt the other one. and then you have to communicate to the animal your will. that's the third principle in training children. communicate your will. so yes. there's a parallel between training dogs, training horses, training cows, training chickens, training a turtle or a lizard. the principles are the same across the board. any psychologist would tell you that that's the case if they're familiar with animals. >> mr. pearl, i appreciate your time. it's a controversial subject. you represent a lot of people's beliefs. i respect that. i appreciate you being on. thank you. >> well thank you. >> we asked mr. pearl's representatives after the interview about the study he was referring to. he mentioned a study where we called mr. brunson who has been a guest on this show before and asked about the study and he said the study doesn't condone spanking and is a misuse of the

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competent and selfless doctor, in other words, the exact opposite of how the prosecution has made him out to be. randi kaye joins me now. what did his former patients say about him? >> the defense called five former patients of dr. murray to show a different side of him. dr. murray has been taking a beating in court from the state so much that this was really needed. murray was visibly emotional during the testimony. he was actually crying in court and wiping his eyes. these patients told the jury he was the best doctor they ever had and that he saved their lives. this was a very good day for the defense because the patients testified that murray took his time with them and never rushed them through his appointments. here's testimony from a patient who says he considers dr. murray his best friend. >> it's because of dr. murray. the way he cared for you. the way he makes you feel. the concern and the love he has

for you. >> the last character witness, ruby moseley, lives in a lower income housing unit for elderly patients in houston where dr. murray set up a clinic in honor of his father. the defense used this to show that murray was not greedy or money hungry even though he was being paid $150,000 a month by michael jackson. she testified that murray was thorough and told her exactly what he was going to do. >> do you think dr. murray is greedy? >> do i think? >> yes, ma'am. >> no. he made a commitment to the community that he would open a clinic in honor of his dad to come to the community and to continue to take care of the patients in that community where his dad had been a physician for a number of years. >> even the jackson family smiled during her testimony.

randy jackson said at the end she's sweet but the prosecution jumped on the fact that dr. murray treated these patients in a hospital and not at home, like he was treating michael jackson. >> is the case coming close to an end? >> it seems that way at least. tomorrow, the defense is expected to put their key expert on the stand. that's dr. paul white, who they hope will help them prove their theory that michael jackson self-administered the propofol along with eight pills of lorazepam without murray's knowledge. if the jury buys dr. white's story, they may buy the idea that jackson overdosed accidentally in a desperate attempt to get some sleep. >> any change in dr. murray's decision to take the stand? >> today in court, the judge advised dr. murray about his right to testify and it was his personal right and nobody else can make that decision for him. after he said that, murray appeared to be talking it over with his defense team, but we really have no indication as of yet that murray plans to

testify. he may be waiting to see how well this expert, dr. white, does for him first. >> interesting to watch that. let's check in again with fredricka whitfield. >> hello again, anderson. the wife of jailed ponzi schemer bernie madoff is speaking out. ruth madoff telling "60 minutes" she and her husband attempted suicide using pills shortly after his ponzi scheme was exposed. >> i don't know whose idea it was, but we decided to kill ourselves because it was so horrendous what was happening. we had terrible phone calls. hate mail. just beyond anything. and i said i can't -- i just can't go on anymore. >> she says they took the pills and woke up the next day. her husband now wakes up in prison, where he will stay for the rest of his life. >> a british coroner's verdict

is in. it says amy winehouse died of alcohol poisoning. the pathologist found her blood alcohol levels were more than five times the legal limit for driving. and some eye popping number from the college board. the cost of studying and living on campus at the average public university rose 5.4% this fall to nearly $22,000 a area for instate students. the chief cause, a dramatic spike in tuition and fees. >> thanks very much. a dust-up on "dancing with the stars." one of the dancers had it with one of the judges. it's not nancy grace. the rediculist is next. [ male announcer ] at transamerica, we are the tomorrow makers. we're making tomorrows like clockwork. ♪ for all the different things our customers planned for. like a college education. or, the perfect wedding.

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>> finally, tonight, the ridiculist. big news about everybody's mom's favorite have the have the show. finally, someone has taken a stand against the tyranny that has been perpetrated against a group that has been silent far too long, in my opinion, talking about the professional dancers. night after night they work hard perfecting their craft. do they perfect their craft? do you think it's easy to teach the difference between a foxtrot and the jitter bug? i had to look up who he was. they're judged harshly by the judges who sit at the table and get all judgy on them. one professional dancer, whose name is max had had enough and took it upon himself to

challenge the justice system. >> this is your worst dance of the whole season, in my opinion. half of the fault is yours. the audience like the effect. i've been in this business for nearly 50 years. >> maybe it's time to get out. >> don't be disrespectful like that. >> judgmental comments. it's a little much. i'm not being disrespectful. i'm just protecting my partner. >> i'm out of order? i'm out of order? you're out of order. this whole dance floor is out of order. this isn't a kangaroo court. this is "dancing with the stars," damn it. a little decorum, please. when i heard someone went off on the judges, i was sure it was nancy grace, but i stand corrected. maks says he's tired of judging standards being different for different contestants on the show. here's what the judge had to say about all this on access hollywood. >> what they got to understand

is they are on trial and we're the judges. you can't be a judge at your own trial. >> i'm no jeff toobin, but i think that's true. you can't be a judge at your own trial, even if the trial consists of people evaluating your lindy hop. do they do that? when courtroom drama meets ballroom dancing there will be confrontations. it's a pressure cooker. people will say things in the heat of the moment that they will regret. now that every one has had time to waltz it off, let's hear what maks had to say on "good morning america." >> any second thoughts about what you had to say? >> not really. >> you want the truth, robin roberts? you can't handle the truth. >> everyone is waiting for me to bow my head, take a knee and say i'm sorry and plea for forgiveness. i have nothing to apologize for. >> he took a stand and is sticking by it. occupy "dancing with the stars."