don't be that. and on that note, here's piers morgan tonight. -- captions by tonight raising cain. >> don't even bother asking me all of these other questions that you all are curious about, okay? don't even bother. >> herman cain facing a third accusation of sexual harassment, but more popular than ever. what really happened? will we ever find out. and one of the most powerful women in america, condoleezza rice. the ultimate bush white house insider. why does she say dick cheney attacked her integrity? why did she threated tony resign after 9/11? what did she really think about muammar gadhafi's crush on her?

this is piers morgan tonight. good evening. herm ann cain's campaign gets a third report of sexual harassment and they call it baseless allegations. a consultant in oklahoma says he witnessed inappropriate behavior by cain at the national restaurant association back in the 1990s. before all this the press seemed to be just getting herman cain with reporters earlier today. >> so don't even bother asking me all of these other questions that you all are curious about, okay? don't even bother. >> but are you concerned about the fact that these women do want to -- >> what did i say? >> are you concerned about -- >> excuse me. excuse me. >> step aside, please. >> what part of no don't these people understand? >> all getting rather heated. joining me to make sense of all this is john king, anchor of

"john king usa." what's extraordinary is the more revelations that he gets, the better his polling seems to be. >> well, the most recent polling, piers, captures -- >> did you call me anderson? >> i did, and i'm very sorry about that. i was just watching the prooefr program. i'm a fan there. >> that is bordering on harassment, i might add. >> it is. it is. you have me now. i'll have to sign an agreement and leave. the most recent polling -- we need to be careful. captures maybe a day or two. herman cain is still shown leading nationally, but, again, the last day or two maybe. we need to look at the polls in a week to ten days because this is still come out. you have what you mentioned the associated press quoting a third woman is saying when she worked at the restaurant association mr. cain did something that made

her uncomfortable, made her feel that he was infringing on her rights. that's number one. another allegation. an anonymous allegation, but still an allegation. tonight gloria vorger reporting that one of the women is meeting with her attorney trying to get permission from the restaurant association, whom she signed a confidentiality agreement to issue some kind of a statement, so he says the attorney she does not want to be "the next anita hill." she does want to issue some kind of statement. we don't know where this is going, but we do know this. it's not over. >> let's listen to this guy, chris wilson. he is an oklahoma polster. he says he saw herman cain harassing women. let's hear what he had to say today. >> i was the pollster at the national restaurant association when herm ain cain was the head of it, and i was actually around a couple of times when this happened, and anyone who was involved with the restaurant

association at the time knew this was going to come up. >> i mean, john, is herman cain handle this very badly, or is it all kind of playing to his folksy i'm not a politician reputation? you know, that behavior with the reporters earlier, you would never see a conventional politician talking to them like that, and, yet, that is part of herman cain's charm, isn't it? >> it is. he is not a politician, and he sticks it to the establishment, and he is not afraid to stick it to the news media, although he has been very media-friendly, as you well know. you had a conversation with him that he is still trying to recover from with the abortion questions. you asked him about. on the one hand being the anti-politician helps me. is there a cumulative affect of having conflicting accounts here. maybe the issues are not true. maybe the allegations were a misunderstanding. he didn't think he did anything

wrong. the women thought he did. that happens sometimes in life. how he handle this is raises a lot of questions. that clip that you just played would be the first eyewitness, the first person to go on the record saying i saw him doing things that are offensive or at least the women could fairly assume was some sort of sexual harassment. again, though, this story is so complicated because you get something like that, and you say there's a witness, and then we find out this witness who says he saw it at the time has a political connection to texas governor rick perry. he is working for a political action committee that is not run by mr. perry, but that is run by one of his former top aides and that is supporting the perry campaign. >> wolf blitzer, thank you very much. i'm kidding. john, thank you. >> thank you, piers. will these allegations be fatal to herman cain's campaign?

joining me is harvard law professor and anchor of "the blaze." from a legal point of view i guess the trigger moment for herman cain will be if any of the women behind these so-called harassment charges is able to come forward, identify herself, and talk publicly. how likely from a legal point of view is that, do you think? >> well, i think it's quite likely. herman cain has in a situation not completely of his own making, at least recently, he didn't voluntarily disclose anything or breach the agreement. somebody else did. he obviously as a presidential candidate had to issue some kind of a statement, and the question is does that waive the confidentiality agreement in relation to the other women? do they now have an opportunity to come forward and present their argument? courts are not particularly accepting of confidentiality agreements, particularly when they involve public figures. if he were asking me my advice as a lawyer, just to predict

what will happen, i think that these confidentiality agreements will be broken and each of the three people will have an opportunity to present their case, and then it depends on what kind of harassment it is. was it quid pro quo, which is the worst kind, sleep with me or i'll fire you. was it harassment of a particular individual kind of aggressive behavior, but not physical touching? or was it just creating a hostile environment which could be bad jokes, dirty jokes, that kind of thing? a lot will depend what she they say when they come forward, but they will come forward. >> amy holmes, i mean, it is bizarre that even though the scandal had started and it had been running for a couple of days, the latest polls suggests that the public certainly at the moment are not put off by herman cain. what do you make of that? >> i would say more specifically that the gop voters sht put off

by the allegations because she went through the sexual harassment whiplash of the 1990s, of the anita hill accusations and paula jones accusations and we saw a lot of feminists changing their tune. susan even said in the paula jones case that not every woman tells the truth, and not every accusation should be used to destroy a man. i think for those gop voters, they're rallying around herman cain really in part because of a common enemy, and that's what they see as hypocrisy in the political class and in the media. in terms of this scandal, how far does this go? only herman cain really knows, and up to this point we have gotten a lot of conflicting stories from herman cain, which i think could eventually hurt him. >> alan, the level of money that these women have been paid doesn't seem to be very high. what does that tell you about the nature of these allegations? >> well, it tells me two things.

first, they're too high for simply a severance package for people earning relatively small amounts of money. they generally don't get a year severance package. they're just dismissed or they want to leave, so something was going on, but it also suggests that it wasn't the worst kind of sexual harassment. that it was probably some intermediate level, which, by the way, back in the early 1990s might not have been taken as seriously as it would be taken today, so he may be caught in a kind of time bind whereas what was if not acceptable in the workplace certainly tolerable or not as condemnable back in the 1990s as it would be looked at today, so we just don't know enough to make a final assessment, but the amounts involved suggest that it's at a middle level of seriousness. not at the lowest level. not at the highest level. >> and amy holmes, we've had charges of racism here both from herman cain and others.

ann coulter called it a high-tech lynching. there was an extraordinary comment that black conservatives are better than the democrat blacks at the moment, which i thought was offensive on almost every level. what do you think of the central charge that there is a racist undertone to the way that people are now going after herman cain? >> well, i haven't seen a racist undertone to this. herman cain, he is one of the front contenders for the gop nomination at the moment, and is he coming under the kind of scrutiny that any candidate should. however, i would point out that the media did not put the same scrutiny on john edwards when he was running for president, and it was revealed by the national enquirer in the midst of his campaign that he was carrying on an affair with a campaign staffer, who we all know now, and he had even impregnated this woman, and bob schieffer of cbs said we're going to ignore this

story, the washington press corps. this is the kind of thing that we should really give a miss because this doesn't look like there's anything to it to me, and, in fact, you saw that the washington press corps did not dig further. this was an affair that was ongoing during the campaign, so i think that with herman cain and with his political future, again, it really depends on what other allegations come forward and how he handles it. >> but i think there's an enormous difference -- yeah, i think there's an enormous difference, no matter how despicable you might think edwards was it was entirely voluntarily. there were no unwelcome advances. here you have three alleged victims, and i think it's impossible to ignore allegations of real victims. we have to find out what the allegations are, how serious they are. for example, what the race of the alleged victims are. obviously, in the --

>> why would that make any difference in terms of the veracity of the allegations? >> not in terms of veracity, but in terms of any racism being involved. he called it a high-tech lynch and if his accuser is of the same race, that discredits his allegations. it would in some way he either lend or discredit claims of race inch. you can have racism no matter what if the motivation by those that are making them outside of the victims was racist. this does not sound like race. this sounds like politics. it sounds like it might be a little bit of dirty politics from some of his republican opponents. he first alleged that the perry campaign may have been involved, and then the perry campaign issued denials, and sort of apologies. we have a lot more to go before we get to the bottom of this, but i predict we will get to the bottom of this, and herman cain would be well advised get in front of the story and not let it constantly creep up on him from behind. >> and piers, if i could add. >> let me bring it to a halt. let me ask you both for a prediction. as things stand, does herman cain survive this scandal, do you think? alan? >> i think he does if it's not quid pro quo sexual harassment. i think he sdpt does not survive a quid pro quo if it's credible. >> i think it's far too early to tell, but i would say that

herman cain should have given mike murphy a call, and he was the gop strategist that had arnold schwarzenegger say where there's smoke, there's fire. >> amy holmes, alan, thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up, a woman who knows more than most about crisis in the white house. condoleezza rice live. what is that? oh, we call it the bundler. td ameritrade can. they've got trading specialists i can call for help. and paper trading. free practice trading that helps me hone my technique. complex options. and free tutorials online or in person. can a trading site really make a difference? if it can't, why are you trading there? number one in online equity trades. td ameritrade. [ male announcer ] trade commission-free for 60 days. plus get up to $600 when you open an account.

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>> i condoleezza rice do solemnly swear that i will support and defend. >> that i will support and defend. >> the constitution of the united states. >> the constitution of the united states. >> against all -- >> that's condoleezza rice being sworn in as president bush's secretary of state in 2005, and she's here tonight to talk about life inside the bush white house. her new book "no higher honor" and condoleezza rice joins me now. welcome back, dr. rice. we last spoke in january. i first launched this show. it's been pretty quiet since then. i mean, what's really happened? we've had the arab spring uprisings, bin laden has been killed. gadhafi has been killed. we've had the biggest financial crisis again we've ever seen. we've got a guy who used to sell pizzas running your party's charge to take on the president. >> it's been a busy several

months. that's absolutely right. >> what do you make of the whole herman cain phenomenon? it is a phenomenon. he has come pretty much from nowhere to storm the gop ratings. he is engulfed in maybe a scandal. we don't know the full extent of it yet. what do you think of him personally? zi don't actually know him, but this is what our primary season is all bshgs and he is an interesting person. he has an interesting background. obviously, a lot of business experience. he is sort of shaking up the race. i don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but this will all settle out over the next several months, and the republican party will choose a nominee, but our primaries tend to be a little bit like this. >> reading your book, obviously you make a big play of saying no one needs to tell you how to feel as a black american, as a black woman. when you see the charge of potentially racism in the herman cain case, people saying that

people are only going after him because he is a black conservative, do you think that holds any merit? >> well, i actually don't like playing the race card on either side. i don't like it when people say that the criticism of president obama is because he is black. the criticism is because is he the president, and we tend to criticize our presidents. so i really don't like playing the race card on either side. obviously, i view myself as a black republican, as someone who can stand up for myself, and as i have often said, don't need anyone to tell me how to be black. i've been black all my life, and if you don't like my political views, then that's really too bad. >> what do you think of the gop race generally? it's been fluctuating wildly over the last couple of months. i guess it may still fluctuate. mitt romney has been the steady eddie, if you like. consistently polling around the

25% mark. others have leapt above him and then crashed below again. what can you read into this from your experience? >> well, i don't think you can read anything in at this point. we really will get a much better view, i much better barometer how to think about this race after the first of the year, after the first primary, so, you know, i was associated with the campaign very closely. in the george w. bush campaign going all the way back really to the beginning of 1999, and there was a lot of turbulence in that campaign too. people forget, for instance, that george w. bush lost the new hampshire primary by 17 or 18 points. so there's a lot of settling out to do here, but i think our political system is not too rough. you want to see people under pressure. you want to see them when things get a little difficult because when they get in the oval office, things are going to get rough and they're going to get a

little difficult. >> without actually giving me names -- i know you probably won't of who your favorite is. >> right. >> chf the candidates do you find yourself agreeing with most on their policy statements? it may not necessarily be the one that you would vote for. >> well, there's no single candidate right now about whom i can say that. i think we have some very good candidates in the race. i myself am enjoying for the first time in quite a long time just sort of watching the campaign as a voter, as obviously a committed republican, and i think they're debating the issues. that's important. i probably like to see a little bit more attention to foreign policy, but i understand that given the issues of domestic internal repair that the united states has to do that a lot of people are not focussing on foreign policy, but i'll just watch the debates and, you know, i'll make my choices later on.

>> i mean, when the frontrunner, herman cain, doesn't appear to know anything about china's nuclear policy, do you get itchy fingers? do you think maybe you should throw your hat in the ring, albeit, belatedly? >> no, i don't get itchy fingers about throwing my own hat in the ring. isn't that a mixed metaphor? i don't myself. what i see is someone who may have misspoken. i really don't know. i know that there were many times during the 2000 campaign when issues, does the governor know this or that? the president of the united states, the people who come to the presidency of the united states very often don't come with foreign policy experience, but they get it rather quickly, and so the important thing to look for in candidates is what do they stand for, what are their principles, do they understand the unique character of the united states and its unique role in the world? >> let's turn to your book.

a fascinating read. a complex read. covers eight extraordinary years really from the start of the millennium. when you finished the book, what was your emotion when you finally signed off on it? what did you conclude about that period in your life? >> well, first of all, there was the relief that i finally finished the writing, which, as you know, can be quite trying. >> it's a big book, too. >> it is. piers, it's only 740 odd pages, and that's less than 100 pages a year, because we were in office for eight years, so i think it's actually not that -- not that big, but it is for me an opportunity to talk to people about what it's like to be in the white house, to be in the state department, to try to give people a glimpse of not just what the decisions were, but how they were made and the distinctly human character of the people and being in those circumstances. we're all human beings.

there are personalities. there are disagreements, but most importantly, people are working hard on behalf of the country and i called it "no higher honor" because that's really the way that i feel about those years that i served. >> i've read all the books now by the chief protagonists of that period in the administration, and my conclusion of your thoughts on them, if i was boiling it down, would be you admire the president, president bush, you hated dick cheney, you tolerated donald rumsfeld, and you felt sorry for colin powell. how have i done there? >> let's start over. i did indeed admire the president. there's no doubt about it, and i really do believe that he did an exceptional job under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. the vice president i have a high regard for. we simply didn't agree a lot of the time, and particularly in the second term. i think the vice president exhibited some disappointment in

the turn that the foreign policy took in that second term, and associates it with me and the state department, and that's fine. people can disagree, but i don't have any less regard for the vice president. as to don, don and i have been friends for a long time, and i know that don is a kind of irrasible character. i think he did a fine job on many things as secretary of defense. we didn't agree ultimately about the course of the war in iraq, and that was ultimately settled, and colin powell is my friend, and he is a great patriot. he served as secretary of state at a time when we were at war, and the hard thing about being secretary of state when we are at war is that especially in the early phases the pentagon is first on, and so, yes, sometimes it was very hard being america's diplomat between 2001 and 2004, and i respect him for the job he did. >> i mean, you describe -- you say every public appearance with

donald rumsfeld was a disaster. >> well, because -- well, the one in baghdad was a bit of a problem because i describe in baghdad that the president -- in the book that president bush had sent don and me to baghdad to sort of show unity between the defense department and the state department and don was impatient with the whole thing, and, unfortunately, sort of came through in the press availability and i'm afraid we wrote stories that we really didn't intend to write about how well we were getting along, and that one was a bit of a disaster, but those things happen, and as i said, don and i remain friends, and it's awfully important for people to realize that you can have substantive differences -- you can have intense debates and even intense arguments, and can you still do it in a civil war where you may have personalities involved, but it doesn't have to become personal. >> before we go to a break, very quickly, dick cheney said that he saw you crying in a professional situation. i found that very hard to believe. >> yeah, i find that kind of hard to believe too. no. i don't think i went to the vice president crying about something in the press. it doesn't sound like me, and i'm pretty sure it didn't happen. >> no.

i didn't -- it didn't sound like you at all to me. coming up after the break, i want to talk about the revolution in the middle east, the death of bin laden and gadhafi, and whether you feel the way you went about war in iraq triggered all this or actually was the way that it shouldn't have been done.

>> reaction in libya to the demise of muammar gadhafi. back with me now is the former secretary of state condoleezza rice who famously found herself the object of gadhafi's weird affections. >> yes. >> those are nice, but it was a bizarre setup.

they found this glorious scrapbook in your honor. you actually write in the book at the end of the determine gadhafi told me he made a videotape of me. ah oh, i thought. what's this going to be. it was quite an interesting collection of photos of me with world leaders, set to the music of a song called black flower in the white house, written by a libyan composure. it was weird, but at least it wasn't raunchy. >> right. >> quite extraordinary. >> quite extraordinary. weird and a bit creepy. i had actually known that he had this fixation on me. a couple of foreign minister friends had told me and a couple of my staff. i was going to libya. my job was to go there. he had given up his weapons of mass destruction. he had paid rep rags to the families of the victims of his terror stacks. my job was to go there and do diplomatic business and get out. so that's what i did, but i have to say i did have that terrible moment when he said that he had the video tape.

i am just glad that it all came out all right. >> and he never made any kind of move ow then? >> no, no. absolutely not. >> being more serious about thsh the end of gadhafi was a suitably gruesome end to a gruesome tyrant in many ways. when you saw the way he was killed, dragged out by the rebels and basically executed, what did you feel about that? was there a debate about whether it was the right thing -- it shouldn't have been allowed happen? what did you think? >> well, revolutions are not pretty, and there are any number of circumstances in which the tyrant who stays too long and refuses to leave and when fear breaks down and on behalf of his people and the tables are turned, those ends are often very violent and so it might not be the way that we sitting here in a stable democracy that's more than 200 years old, almost 300 years old might want things to happen, but revolutions aren't pretty. >> when you watch the extraordinary events of this year throughout the middle east,

clearly there's a pattern of revolution driven from the ground up through mainly young people disaffected with their lot you should these tyrants seizing control of their own destiny. in libya in particular you saw the end of gadhafi driven by these pretty heroic rebels who decided take him on and see him off. the american military and the american administration very much hands off, and the difference, of course, in cost was huge. the libya campaign cost $1.5 billion. iraq was worst at costing almost that a week. very different way of going about the same objective of getting rid of a bad guy. do you look at what's happened and slightly regret the way you helped the administration go about iraq? >> well, the circumstances were fundamentally different, and the times were fundamentally different, and we went after saddam hussein because he was a security threat. he caused wars in the region. he had used weapons of mass destruction. he was going after our aircraft. we didn't actually go after him

to bring democracy to iraq. we brought -- we were going after him because he was a security threat. once we had deposted him, it was important to give the iraqi people a chance for a democratic future, but i think it would be a mistake to think that saddam hussein would have permitted an arab spring in iraq for even a moment. it would have been over in hours. we have seen how he deals with uprisings. the way that he dealt with the uprising in the south when he gassed the shia or the kurds immediately after the gulf war in 1991 where he slaughtered hundreds and thousands of people. thismore march gadhafi was a monstrous leader. he was not saddam hussein either in terms of his reach, his capability, or his capacity for systematic brutality, and so saddam hussein was not going to fall by these means, and i am very glad that he is gone, and, in fact, it probably helped to stimulate gadhafi's decision that he would give up his weapons of mass destruction, coming as it did right on the

heels of the -- i'm awfully glad that we were able to disarm him of his most dangerous weapons before this revolution because gadhafi sitting in his bunker with dangerous weapons might have been -- there might have been a very different outcome. >> what was the biggest mistake of the whole iraq campaign? the reliance publicly on establishing that he had weapons of mass destruction or the kind of drip, drip, drip. you call it the embarrassment of the president becoming almost a wmd fact checker, which was clearly a pretty degrading experience and deeply flawed and in the end it turned out that the public reasons for going to war with saddam were totally incorrect, whereas had you done what the administration did here with gadhafi and say we're going after saddam because he is a bad man and it will be good for the region, at least you could sit back now and say, well, we got rid of him for the reasons we said we were going to get rid of him.

>> i think we did make those reasons, but we didn't emphasize them. i talk about this in the book. we belief he had weapons of mass destruction. that was the immediate threat particularly in the aftermath of 9/11 when you worry about nexus between terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. weapons of mass destruction were not a theoretical probability with saddam hussein. after all, had he used them before. he had been seen in 1991 after the gulf war i to have a crude nuclear device in perhaps a year, and so we believed that the weapons of mass destruction case was solid, but as i said, i don't think it was wise to have any of us, but particularly the president, debating or defending an intelligence nugget. did he buy uranium ore in niger, what were aluminum tubes for, why was he buying so much colorin? the reasoning was this was a cancer in the region, saddam hussein, who had caused two massive wars in the region, who had tried to assassinate a president of the united states,

who had put 400,000 of his people in mass graves, was breaking out of the constraints under which he had been put in 1991 and was reconstituting, according to our intelligence agencies, his weapons of mass destruction. that broader strategic case, i think, got lost in, as you call tshg the drip, drip, drip of intelligence nuggets. >> let's take a break and come back. i want to talk to you about the moment you heard that saddam hussein was dead, the man who committed the 9/11 atrocity on your watch. welcome back my special guest dr. condoleezza rice. dr. rice, i'm getting lots of tweets wile we had the break there saying i wish that she would run for president. >> well, that is very nice, but thanks, i'll pass on that honor. >> is that a total lifetime pass, or could he see yourself tempted back? >> i'm really a policy person. i'm not a politician, and i've been through a campaign. i know what that takes, and i'll leave it to others. >> you're not entirely ruling it out? >> piers, that's a no. >> let me ask you, where were you when you heard that osama bin laden had been killed, because for you personally, never mind professionally, it must have been an extraordinary moment in your life having spent so long trying to catch him after 9/11.

>> it was, indeed. i had just come in actually to washington d.c. i had landed that evening from california, and i flipped on the television, and they were getting ready to have the news conference, and i thought the president of the united states doesn't go into the east room this time of night. i think they got bin laden. i was so gratified. i was grateful to president obama for taking a difficult decision because by all reports, it wasn't a certainty that osama bin laden was there, and i was very glad that i think we had left the infrastructure in place call now to find out how an aarp... medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company, helps cover some of the medical expenses... not paid by medicare part b. that can save you from paying up to thousands of dollars... out of your own pocket. these are the only medicare supplement insurance plans... exclusively endorsed by aarp. when you call now, you'll get this free information kit... with all you need to enroll. put their trust in aarp medicare supplement insurance. plus you'll get this free guide to understanding medicare. the prices are competitive. i can keep my own doctor. and i don't need a referral to see a specialist. call now to get a free information kit. plus you'll get this free guide to understanding medicare. and the advantages don't end there.

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welcome back my special guest dr. condoleezza rice. dr. rice, i'm getting lots of tweets wile we had the break there saying i wish that she would run for president. >> well, that is very nice, but thanks, i'll pass on that honor. >> is that a total lifetime pass, or could he see yourself tempted back? >> i'm really a policy person.

i'm not a politician, and i've been through a campaign. i know what that takes, and i'll leave it to others. >> you're not entirely ruling it out? >> piers, that's a no. >> let me ask you, where were you when you heard that osama bin laden had been killed, because for you personally, never mind professionally, it must have been an extraordinary moment in your life having spent so long trying to catch him after 9/11. >> it was, indeed. i had just come in actually to washington d.c. i had landed that evening from california, and i flipped on the television, and they were getting ready to have the news conference, and i thought the president of the united states doesn't go into the east room this time of night. i think they got bin laden. i was so gratified. i was grateful to president obama for taking a difficult decision because by all reports, it wasn't a certainty that osama bin laden was there, and i was very glad that i think we had left the infrastructure in place

to make that moment possible. the courier, for instance, who in 2007 we learned of this courier who eventually gave up bin laden, and so -- or led us to bin laden, and so this was a great story of american perseverance over ten years said to foes in particular we don't give up until the job is done. >> who was the first person you told when you heard the news? >> well, i actually had a couple of people with me traveling with me. one of them that worked with me at the state department. we immediately talked about it, and it was a really very -- very gratifying moment because even though i don't believe that al qaeda is done as an organization, in many ways the organization that did 9/11 is a very different organization now. it's been cut down to size. not just through the kill of bin laden, but also the many field generals who were taken off the battlefield, so this is a good story for american perseverance. >> do you miss high office, or

are you just relieved to be out of it all, because the book details again and again the sacrifice that you have to make, like so many people at a high level of white house administration. you talk about envying your driver because every weekend he would be off doing stuff with his family or having fun, and you were off around the world on another trip. so i guess mixed feelings? >> well, of course, it was a wonderful experience, and it was a very high honor. as i said. i was glad to be done. eight years is plenty. especially eight years under the circumstances under which we served, but i am so happy to be back at stanford, and i'm a university professor again, which is really my vocation and my calling in life, and i don't -- i don't miss it. i like reading the newspaper and saying, oh, isn't that interesting and moving on to the next thing. it's really quite nice. >> very quickly, if i was to pin you down and say your biggest triumph in the eight years and your biggest regret, what would

you say? >> well, clearly, associating the united states of america firmly with the freedom agenda in the middle east after 60 years of trying to trade democracy for stability and getting neither, i'm very proud of that speech in cairo in june of 2005 that set a different tone based on president bush's second inaugural. in terms of regrets, of course, there will be many over the years, and we'll see how this all plays out. it may surprise you that in many ways the thing i most wish we had started earlier was the work on immigration reform. we were going to work with mexico to really take that issue on. i think 9/11 for very good reasons didn't allow us the time and energy and focus to do it, and when the immigration bill came up in 2007, it failed even though john kyl and john mccain and george w. bush and ted

kennedy all wanted it, and we're still fighting the immigration issue in ways that i think are getting increasingly more difficult and really threatening what is one of america's really great strengths, which is drawing people here from all over the world who just want a better chance in life. >> well, dr. rice, it's been a pleasure, as always, talking to you. it's a terrific book, fascinating read. it's called a memoir from my years in washington "no higher honor." it's certainly the aspect of honor that comes through on every page, and i thank you for your service and for coming on the show again. >> thank you. >> really appreciate it. >> thanks. thanks for having me. we'll be right back.

fine you live under a rock, you have undoudly heard about the breakup of kim kardashian's all too tragically brief marriage. well, i recently sat down with kris jenner. >> you're the boss, aren't you? you're the god mother? >> i -- somebody has to be in charge. it might as well be me. yeah. it's a great job. it's -- i wear a lot of different hats, for sure, because i'm their mom, and i'm their manager, and i'm bruce's wife, and, you know, kind of in control of what happens. >> what are you first? what's the most important role you have? >> mom. i'm definitely mom first. i think that's my instinct. that's my nature. that's what i wanted to have sex

kids since i was, you know, 14 years old. that's my most delicious role, and delicious role, it's my hardest role for sure, but it's what i enjoy. it's what i'm kind of made of. >> and you're genius. this is a family. i met two of your daughters earlier this year. >> uh-huh. >> this thing about branding, you have taken a brand to virtually unparallel lengths. recently a survey came out that said you made $65 million last year. which has not been denied, i've noted. >> well, it's probably a combination of all of the neighbor's money and the people in calibasis. >> that is not a normal place. singers, actors -- >> that's right. they can sing or act or -- >> all of the unconventional talent is not there but there's a market for branding and marketing for business. >> uh-huh. >> tell me how the car kardashian business was created. >> well, we had clothing stores and a children store and that's been in my blood since i was a child because my mom has had stores and so many people that

always said to us, you guys are so crazy, you guys should have your own show. that sort of resonated with me for a couple of years and then finally one thing led to another and then a friend approached me and said, you should meet with ryan seacrest and i did and he pitched it with me to e! and we were filming it later. >> do you ever feel like we shouldn't be doing this? >> no. everything that we put out there, it is who we are. there are a lot of things that you don't see on your show. but it's an agreement that we all made with each other when we first started filming. we said, if we're going to do this, let's be real. >> in vegas. >> kardashian chaos.

>> everything is kardashians? >> yeah. >> what's the weirdest stuff that you have in there? >> okay. i decided that since the store was next to pool, every girl has their own towel and you can buy the beach towel and take it to the pool -- >> so you can literally lie on kim kardashian by the pool. >> exactly. >> this is a bizarre part of your life, involving the o.j. simpson trial. >> uh-huh. >> which many of people don't realize, you were best friends with nicole and your husband was part of the defense team. >> he was. >> he wasn't completely convinced with o.j.'s innocence although he defended him as a friend, out of loyalty he defended him. >> he felt it was the right thing to do at the time and he certainly changed his stance before he died. the day we lost nicole as a friend, a dear friend, we lost o.j. the same day. >> let's take a break. i want to talk about kim because apparently the marriage is all over. >> oh, no. >> there's no denial.

we'll have to wait until the break to finish. apparently it's all over. the marriage is on the rocks. >> don't tell me that. no. >> they have been unpacking suitcases right and left and center and it's all over. >> well, they have been in new york for the last couple of months shooting kourtney and kim. for a long time she seemed

apparently it's all over. the marriage is on the rocks. >> don't tell me that. no. >> they have been unpacking suitcases right and left and center and it's all over. >> well, they have been in new york for the last couple of months shooting kourtney and kim. for a long time she seemed really happy. >> how much of your brand -- and i'm playing slightly devil's advocate here, but how much could it be because of the explosion of the sex tape involving kim? >> honestly, we had a show kind of in the works and they had a tape done before that happened. >> honestly, we had a show kind of in the works and they had a tape done before that happened. it was quite the opposite. when it happened, it was a hour nl time for sure.

but all i thought about was, there goes the show, you know, and it was actually quite the opposite. so i was -- it was shocking to me. >> did you say, there goes the show, there goes my daughter? >> well, that came first. >> how did you hear about this tape? >> um, kim told me. >> hard conversation. >> yeah, it was a very difficult conversation. but at the time it was quite a few years ago and at the time you just -- you have to pick yourself up and you have to -- i went into my room and i had a good cry and i had a good cry with my daughter and then you have to, you know, make some lemonade out of some crazy sour lemons. >> what are you proudest of with your family, would you say? >> my girls and my son, their hearts, they are good people, they work hard. they have the best work ethic in the world. i'm proudest of my grandson, who i adore. and the way that my kids handle themselves, they are so professional, they are so into this for the long run, they are

-- they go to work every day at the crack down and work until they fall down and get up the next day and do it all over again. and they never complain and they are having the best time. i think i'm proud because they feel blessed. we feel very lucky. >> well, i feel lucky could have the kardashian's in my life. >> thank you. >> i still get vicarious pleasure. >> that makes me happy. >> the crazy kardashians. makes me feel like my mad is not so bad after all. >> that's right. i think everybody finds one person they can relate to and they enjoy that. >> i've got a favorite. >> who? >> kim. >> shocking. >> i have a life size cardboard that she gave me in my new york office. >> i heard that. will you tweet it to me? >> it's lovely. it sits behind me. >> is it taller than she is. >> it's slightly risque but it's like kardashian power bursting