a billy bob thornton as a drunken, cursing santa claus? all our reporters were at the north pole covering the drug testing of the elves at santa's work shop which takes a long, long time. but the kids nestled all snug in their beds will be traumatized by the sugar plum fairy dancing in tun employment line or peeing in a cup for that matter. a merry ridiculist to all and to all a good night. that's it. thanks for watching. erin burnett "outfront" starts now. thanks for watching. good evening, everyone. tonight, as more accusers comes back, there's more news on the penn state scandal. the breaking news, assistant coach mike mcqueary, speaking out for first time about the child rape he says he witnessed as a graduate assistant back in 2002 allegedly at the hands of retired coach jerry sandusky. he's been e-mailing former teammates telling them the grand jury got it wrong when they concluded he did nothing to stop the abuse.

quote, i did the right thing. you guys know me. occupy wall street protesters here in new york. like pictures from zuccotti park. the verdict came down as dark descended this evening. the tents were removed and protesters allowed to go back in to get their personal belongings. the new york state supreme court overturning an earlier ruling on this and we are going to have the latest on this breaking story and the implications from the park tonight. but first, we have developing news in washington. the co-chair of the super committee charged with cutting america's deficit said just moments ago, quote, we are in the hours to go. and the countdown is on. this is important and we are watching. the panel of 12 has got eight days, four hours and as you can see 58 minutes i and 11 seconds and counting to make a deal that cuts america's deficit.

if there is no deal when this clock hits zero, our economy will be hurt. your interest rates may go up and companies won't hire. we reached out to our sources. we know that today the six republican members met for breakfast and the six democrats met at the capitol in the afternoon. we need all 12 to be super heroes. they can really change the world and one came "outfront" tonight. congressman bassera. he said this week could be magical and i asked him what he meant. >> if we're going to have the stars align, it has to be this week. in the next few days, we'll know if we're able to put aside those special interest pledges and come out with a good compromise for the american people. >> do you think that -- you've been a proponent of going big as in shooting for $4 trillion of cuts to the deficit as opposed to the $1.2 trillion minimum the committee must come up with.

do you think there's any chance of going above $1.2? >> i think there is a great chance. it does require us to be by partisan and come out with balance. the bigger you get, the more the hurt. so if we want to do something where there's shared sacrifice where everyone participates and you go big, you send a very strong signal but it is tough. i think the public and the markets will appreciate if we do something big that shows that america can get itself back on track and put americans back to work. >> they sure will. we don't have to come back and do this again in another year or so, because at $1.2, we might end up in that position. there was a great analysis in the "new york times" magazine noting that taxing millionaires at 100% wouldn't have as much of an effect as actually having an increase in taxes of 8%. the point was not to say you should not tax millionaires. the point was to say that no one group could solve all of our problems if we were to raise taxes. is that something that the super committee as a group, democrats and republicans agrees with?

>> i would say that this should never be a process about targeting people or programs. it should be a process to come out with the best way to come out with the plan that shows balance in how we go about extracting savings. and so every time you hear about increasing revenues, it is more because we understand over the last decade, it is the wealthy that benefited so much by the policies in place through the bush tax breaks and so forth. it's not a matter of just telling wealthy. because you're wealthy, we want to target you. they're the ones that benefited at a time that the american middle class was being hollowed and there are 14 million americans still looking for a job. most of them, part of that middle class until a few years ago.

>> right. absolutely the case. it is interesting when we looked at it from a numerical perspective. i know this oversimplifies the debate. if you were to get rid of the bush tax cuts on people making over $250,000, you could raise -- it would be $800 billion. if you got rid of them on everybody, it is $2.8 trillion, according to the cbo. it does make a big difference to this point. not any one group. whether cutting medicare order over who or raising taxes only on the wealthy. >> you have to have a balanced approach. it makes no sense to tell seniors that their social security benefits will be cut to pay for deficits when social security didn't contribute a cent to these deficits. but if you're requesting to have a big package that really goes into the future, certainly could you ask everyone to participate. but it's simply a matter of making decisions about your priorities. and in this case, if you want to really get the country back on track, you really do want to go big. be bold. but certainly, tell the american

people that it will be fair. it will be balanced. >> what about defense? one of the big issues, secretary of defense panetta has been very, very loud about this saying that if you don't do your job, he has to cut $1.2 trillion in total from the defense budget. that would hurt america's defense. but when you look at the numbers, and i would ask this question recently. eisenhower, george h.w. bush and nixon all cut defense by a lot more than that. so are massive and extra defense cuts on the table? >> well, they certainly are on the table because of the sequestration, the automatic cuts that will come if we don't come out with a deal. i will say this. the department of defense has to acknowledge that in the last ten years, the increased spending that occurred in those ten years, two-thirds went to the department of defense.

so if the problem here is excessive spending, 65% of the excess spending was done by one department and one department only. that doesn't mean we should do anything to harm the training and equipping of our troops and making sure they have what they need if we send them into battle but it does mean the department of defense shouldn't undergo an audit. it is the only department that could not undergo an audit because they don't have their books in order. that doesn't make sense. everyone has to be more responsible. >> thanks again. >> thank you. >> so, let's bring in john avalon, senior columnist for the daily beast and "newsweek." good to see you tonight. going big. that's what bacerra wants. you're hearing probably not. >> we're hearing a lot of cynicism in washington but cynicism passes for wisdom in washington. i think there are folks holding out hope. i liked that he said they could make a deal. maybe bigger than $1.2.

although that $4 trillion that you seem to be referring to seems to be too far. >> it does. we have patty murray out tonight saying there are hours to go. but she was saying it is in light of there's hours to go. we'd better get a deal, not in the sense of we'd better get an hour to go until we get a deal and we're making progress. >> that's right. we all know the path here. congressman bacerra was talking about cutting defense. raising taxes. those are base-pleasing measures for democrats. the trick is to get democrats to agree on entitlement reforms. it is part of bending that long-term cost curve. both sides will have to be willing to gore the ox that their base is most likely to protect. that's what it will take, to go big. they have the ability to do this. they know what needs to be done. they need to follow through on the super committee. >> let's hope they do. and our countdown clock every

second of every day, we will be playing with it. john will be with us after the break. we have a new cnn poll that says more and more americans disapprove of how the president is doing his job. what does this mean for re-election? then africa's most active volcano explodes. we've got the pictures. lava, 650 feet into the air. and we've crunched the numbers. it all adds up to one thing. brad pitt. streaming, real-time quotes. earnings analysis. probability analysis: that's what opportunity looks like. it's all visual. intuitive. and it's available free, wherever the web is. this is how trade strategies are built. tradearchitect. only from td ameritrade. welcome to better trade commission free for 60 days when you open an account.

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now to politics. we have a poll breaking today with some startling number for the president. a year before the election, the number of people who disapprove of how president obama is handling his job is up to 52%. that would mean a 46%, as you can see, approve. 52% disapprove. on the handling of the economy, that's where you see the stark difference. the number one issue into 2012, 63% disapprove. 35% approve of his handling. john avalon, what's your take on this? especially when you look at history where a lot of people like to say okay, with an approval rating of the magical what number you can get elected? >> well, what folks say is that

you need to be -- your approval rating is over 50% you have a good sense of being reelected. let's view with it a sense of history. that 46 is a slight uptick on recent polls as crazy as that may sound. gerald ford had 44% and lost re-election. jimmy carter had 32% a year out from the election. soundly defeated. but george h.w. bush had 62% and he was defeated. the issue is the trend. and the only bright spot for the president, independents, he is underwater. 42%. centrists, 52%. and midwestern voters, 54%. so there's some good news there but he is a very vulnerable incumbent. those are just the facts. >> do you feel good when you see this, that the trend is a slight improvement? or are you terrified, especially on the economic front? >> the other good news for the president is the president is actually beating his opponents when you look at one to one races. you look at romney and the aggregate of the polls. he is beating romney by one or two points.

and he is frustrated about the economy. the president is frustrated on the economy. i think you have to go back and remember where we came from. the last month of bush's presidency, this economy shed 800,000 jobs. you fast forward today. consumer spending is up. last month we gained 80,000 jobs. everybody wants those numbers to be better but the president put forth a plan that the economists say create 2 million jobs. when you go back to the one-on-one numbers, the president's numbers are very good. >> david frum, what did you look at, the one-on-ones, like tim is saying or the approval rating where he doesn't? >> i look at french interest rates. >> now here's a new little curveball. okay. >> the real puff of winter for the president in these economic numbers is that they are responding to the drumbeat of fear and bad news from across the atlantic, from the risk of the crack-up of the euro. if that happens, and if it is bad news, and it may mean cheap vacations in italy and greece for americans which no one on this side of the atlantic will

mind too much. if it portends, a sharp recession in europe, 2012 could be another bad economic year. and the president really can't control that very much. and that will be, i think, one of the major determinants of his fate. does europe go into a slide? if so, presidents lose. they get blamed for everything. there's a famous study of the 1916 election where woodrow wilson up for reelection got penalized by voters in new jersey for a series of deadly shark attacks off their coastline. if they'll punish you for shark attacks, they'll punish you for a recession in europe. >> when we talk about the polls in iowa, these are out today. herman cain, still number one. ron paul, number two. romney, number three, gingrich, number four. you can see the gainers. paul and gingrich.

the guy that tim is saying could potentially beat the president, mitt romney, is not the guy that seems to be running away with even now. >> i have to say this. this makes my blood boil. it is so insulting. i can only imagine how mitt romney feels about it. he is the guy who looks the president and the republican voters keep moving from one joker to another. newt gingrich less of a joker than herman cain but newt gingrich, not going to be president, with all these negatives, who reopens all the debates of the 1990s, meaning the election becomes a referendum on the past, not the future. i think the choice for republicans is obvious. and yet republicans seem to be wanting to nominate an obama critic-in-chief rather than a commander-in-chief. >> obama is coming out now. romney romney will come out and fight against obama. the obama camp has already been

making it clear, they think they're running against romney. he will come out against romney. your unemployment is 9%. you're done. coming out with a bunch of ads. can you get traction there as a businessman? well, no, when we look at your private equity record. >> mitt romney has a free ride right now. he can be out there and be the critic-in-chief without putting forward any kind of concrete plan. at the end of the day, it will be one person versus one person and one plan versus one plan. you'll have mitt romney as a businessman, a venture capitalist. he wants to lower taxes on the wealthy americans. and there be their will be a and there be -- there will be a clear choice. >> final word? >> look, mitt romney is the only guy in politics with a glass ceiling. what matters in other with a and -- with iowa can replace all the troubles.

it is the ground game that's the key to winning the caucus. paul has very devoted supporters. gingrich and cain, big numbers. >> thanks very much. we appreciate it. the race makes for good tv. tonight's look beyond the video, take a look at these pictures out of africa's most active volcano.>tonight's look beyond video, take a look at these pictures out of africa's most active volcano. this is lava that you're seeing going up 650 plus feet into the air. the volcano is located in a remote area of the democratic republic of the congo. in the midst of what could be the biggest eruption this century. surprisingly, there is no immediate threat to the population. they're keeping a close eye on it. this eruption could last from a few days to weeks to months. they don't know. it is that remote. officials at the park, and it is in a park where there are a lot of gorillas, they're saying it's safe for tourists. volcano fanatics have to pay

$300 to see it. people have to be escorted to see it. they've been racked by conflict. the worst genocide since world war ii is ongoing. it is tragedy because it is one of the richest countries in the world. we've been to the southern part of congo. it is called the copper belt. richest reserves of copper and cobalt in the world. it is safe to say almost every car, every iphone may have something in it from the the democratic republic of the congo. still "outfront," mike mcqueary breaking his silence. disturbing details about the black market rhino trade in tonight's outer circle. and brad pitt's days as an actor are numbered. ugh, my sinus congestion,

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how much longer would you like to do your business? >> three years. >> three years. and then what happens? >> hell if i know. i'm really enjoying the producer side and development of stories and putting those pieces together and getting stories to the plate that may not -- that might have had a tougher time otherwise. >> that was brad pitt speaking to an australian television channel. he says he will quit acting in three years. that's when he turns 50. our number is 35. that's the number of films that brad pitt has started or voiced characters in since 1991 when he got the big time. brad has still got it. he has two films set for

release next year. he also co-owns a production company called plan b entertainment which produces movies like "eat, play, love" and "the departed." he is best known for being a family man? is that what he's known for? he is still sort of a sex pot. he and angelina jolie are raising six kids, speaking of sex pots. when asked if there would be more, he says he is open to that. we'll see how big their brood would become. still "outfront," the court tells a protesters they're no longer allowed to camp in the park and a look at south africa's black market rhino trade. we go there tonight in the outer circle. and new developments in the penn state scandal. [ male announcer ] drinking a smoothie with no vegetable nutrition?

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we start the second half of our show with stories we care about. we focus on our reporting, do the work and find the "outfront" five. tonight it's a busy show. we have more breaking news. an earthquake hitting indonesia. the 5.8 quake was centered in papua, indonesia. we've learned a tsunami warning was not issued. obviously important. number two, leon panetta appeared before the senate armed services committee. john mccain accused the obama administration of putting politics before the security of iraq and america. >> the truth is that this administration was committed to the complete withdrawal of u.s.

troops from iraq and they made it happen. >> senator mccain, that's not true. i guess you can believe that and i respect your beliefs. >> and i respect your opinion. but the outcome has been exactly as predicted. >> that's not how it happened. >> it is how it happened. >> this is about negotiating -- this is about negotiating with the sovereign country. an independent country. >> there were sparks there. president obama announced the complete withdrawal of troops after iraq refused to grant immunity to u.s. troops past december 31st. number three, the u.s. postal service lost more than $5 billion in its 2011 fiscal year. "outfront" crunched the numbers. here's what we found. the amount of first class mail in this country has dropped more than 20% in the past five years. with half the revenue coming from first class mail, postal service is getting crushed by e-mail. the competition, fed-ex and ups,

a lot more flexibility, posted quarterly profits. number four, the clock is for the super committee, there are just hours left to go. and congressman xavier bacerra said he thinks the committee is on track to do a deal and go a lot bigger than the 1.2 trillion they're mandated to cut. more cuts to the deficit mean more jobs. it has been 102 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? hopefully more than belgium. it has the same credit rating that we do. they haven't had a government in place for 520 days. their economy did not grow at all in the third quarter. ours did. the lawyer for former penn state assistant coach jerry sandusky said the alleged victim of a shower rape denised the incident ever took place. this contradicts mike mcqueary's

testimony that he witnessed the attack. he has been e-mailing friends and said he stopped the rape but not physically. i'm not sure what that means. jerry sandusky broke his silence last night about the allegations that he sexually abused eight boys over 15 years in an interview with bob costas. paul callen is a former new york city prosecutor, cnn legal contributor. i want to begin for people who haven't heard it, it will make your jaw drop even if you heard this before. let's listen to jerry sandusky speck to bob costas last night and let me get your reaction. >> are you a pedophile? >> no. >> are you sexually attracted to young boys, to underage boys? >> i am a sexually attracted to underage boys? >> yes. >> sexually attracted? i enjoy young people. i -- i love to be around them. i -- i -- but no. i'm not sexually attracted to young boys. >> did he help or hurt his case? >> oh, this is the most

disastrous thing i've ever seen in a criminal defense case. the jonestown defense. remember? the leader, the religious leader and all of his followers committed suicide. he has admitted that he may in fact be a pedophile. did you hear how long the delay was before he answered the question? you just got a thumping in your stomach as you were listening to it. he admitted that he showered with these little boys. he's admitted things that prosecutor might have trouble proving and he's already put that up on the board. the prosecutor is 60% of the way to proving this case already just on his statement alone. >> so what does the fact that he chose to do this interview with the press on television, with his lawyer sitting there, does that change anyway what will be admissible, what isn't going to be admissible? >> it changes something in a major way and i haven't seen this happen in a high-profile criminal case ever. i think the attorney now could be called as a witness against

him because he has waived the attorney/client privilege. when you allow your attorney to go on television and reveal conversations that he has had with you about how the alleged crime took place, that's a waiver of the attorney/client privilege. >> that's the guy you see sitting next costas? >> approving the interview and endorsing this theory if you just say you were taking showers with little boys, that means you're not a pedophile. i don't know who concocted that defense. but it's not going to play in a pennsylvania jury room or any other jury room. >> that was the most -- i don't know what was the most shocking thing about that interview. my jaw was dropping. i was truly shocked. but to even think that in in way being naked with a boy, a 10-year-old boy -- >> that it is acceptable? it's athletes horsing around? he is just -- they have a view of the world that is so at odds with the real world.

i don't know what's going on in the happy valley of penn state, but they're very distanced from reality there. 55-year-old men don't shower with little boys. and when they do, it's an indication that something is radically wrong. >> something is terribly wrong. thank you very much. paul will be with us later in the show as well. the former head football coach legend joe paterno as you are likely aware by now, was fired last week after the grand jury testimony revealed that paterno was told that sandusky raped a boy in the locker room in 2002. at the time, paterno told his boss, hey, sandusky, you can't come in the locker room anymore and the matter was dropped. despite the scandal, many are still believers in paterno and one is hall of famer franco harris. he served on the board of second mile, sandusky's charity for young boys. we've seen him on our station covering this. he is "outfront" tonight.

>> he was pretty distraught about all the sexual -- alleged sexual abuses of the kids. and you know he is hurt also. and just, you know, also talked football a little bit. and we definitely talked a little about what's going on. >> what did he say about jerry sandusky specifically? or did he give you any sense as to, well, gosh, i wish i had done this differently or that or i feel this is unfair right now or any kind of clarity on that? >> well, he didn't have any clue about jerry sandusky, of all these allegations that were going to happen. and i really didn't ask him about the situation with reporting stuff. because when i read the grand

jury report, and when joe reported to his superior. then i read the part, the superior is the vice president of penn state met with mike mcqueary. and i said, wow! okay. here's a guy who actually saw it talking to the higher-ups. >> you've been adamant that it was not right that he lost his job as head football coach, given that he did report what he was told to his higher-ups. do you still feel that way? >> you know what, erin? he wasn't charged. and if you look at it, there has been no trial yet. and you're absolutely right. i think there is a rush to judgment. and i think he should not have been fired and i believe that

they should rehire joe as soon as possible. >> all right. thank you very much. we appreciate your being with us again. >> thanks, erin. always nice to talk to you. >> the thing is that joe paterno was not alone in knowing about the child sex abuse and going to authorities. after all, he learned about it from the defensive coordinator, mike mcqueary, who just spoke to cbs news and we have this breaking sound for you. >> do you have any idea when you think you might be ready to talk? >> this process has to play out. i don't have anything else to say. >> okay. >> and then just one last thing. describe your emotions right now. >> all over the place. just shaken. >> crazy? >> crazy. >> you said what? like a snow globe. >> yes, sir. >> like a snow globe. of course, mike mcqueary was the man who heard what he described

as rhythmic slapping that night in the locker room at penn state. he said that he walked in on jerry sandusky raping about a 10-year-old boy in the shower, and then went the next morning to tell his boss, joe paterno. what they did was tell their boss. and what happened was jerry sandusky wasn't allowed in the locker room anymore. but no one told law enforcement authorities and laws on reporting abuse vary from state to state in this country. in 39 states, it is a misdemeanor for failing to report abuse with no jail time. it is a felony in only three states. senator menendez wants that to change. he is "outfront" to unveil action that he is taking. this is action that you'll be taking tomorrow. you put it forward. what would it do? >> the child abuse responsibility and enforcement act would do three things. number one, it is the law of the land that you have to report. you have an obligation under the

law to report acts of child abuse. two, that you have to report that to a police department and the social service agency. and number three, that failure to do so would mean a year, potentially a year in prison. and we seek to have the states make that the law of the land in every state by saying if you don't pass a law or if you don't have a law that has those three conditions, then you won't get access to $1.7 billion in social service block grants. and we think that is ultimately the way in which we protect our children. you think there would be a moral obligation to do this. but this will make a very clear legal obligation that if you see something, you have to say something and that has to be the police and social service organizations. >> i googled today, i typed in what is child abuse. on google i got 44,100,000 responses. one example came from the santa clara county, california, county website talking about what would

constitute forcing you to go and tell authorities. and i'm just curious, is part of the reason here we haven't had these laws in place because there is a lack of clarity about what abuse really is? >> well, we'll let the definition of abuse go by state law. but what is not clear in many states is what is your obligation, your legal obligation to report and what are the consequences? in some state, there are consequences for not reporting. we want to make sure there are clear consequences and we want you to understand that your failure to do that. you should that be worried about your job or any other consequences. your failure to do that could land you in jail up to a year. we think this is the best way to protect our children. >> up to a year or minimum a year? >> minimum of a year. >> minimum. so in the case of joe paterno who told his boss but no one at penn state told authorities, in this case, mike mcqueary, joe paterno, all of those people could go to jail? >> well, first of all, the law

is prospective. we would say anyone who found themselves in those conditions in the future, they would have an obligation to go directly to the police department. tell them what they saw. what they know as well as the social service entity of that state. therefore, they would meet their obligation under the law. failure to have gone to the police and the social service agency could land them in jail for a year. >> thank you very much and good luck with this. i think every one would say it's about time. shocking we didn't have this in place. senator menendez has been fighting for this for a long time so let's hope it goes through. the court rules the occupy wall street protesters no longer allowed to camp in the park. and details about the south african rhino trade. and the ceo of ringo. we'll tell you what that is. what it will take. what's this? it's progresso's new loaded potato with bacon.

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[♪...] >> male announcer: book now, save up to 65%. call 1-800-sandals. we do this at the same time every night. our outer circle. we reach out to sources around the world. to be we begin in syria. protests have claimed 3,500 lives. today alone, 15 people died. ivan watson is in istanbul, turkey. why are they facing more international pressure now? >> reporter: the syrian government seems to have lost credibility in the eyes of many of its former allies. after eight months of violence, the arab league has suspended syria's membership after it dragged its feet. the turks threatened to cut off electricity to their neighbor

after three turkish diplomatic missions were attacked on the same day by pro-government mobs on saturday. the europeans have slapped sanctions against 18 more senior regimes in syria. >> thank you very much. now to afghanistan where a title -- vital meeting of tribal elders begins tomorrow under tight security and threats from the taliban. nick peyton walsh is in kabul. what's the focus of tomorrow's meeting? why is it so important? >> reporter: it's been called by hamid karzai to discuss the u.s. long-term military presence here but we've learned it may also hear important news for the transition away from nato forces to the afghans. two of the country's most volatile areas, may be among the next to be handed from nato forces to the afghan army to secure. now some say the afghans may not be ready to face this test. others say it is good that they

try and see if they can while nato is still here in sufficient number to help out. >> thank you. to south africa where one rhino is killed every 21 hours. the black market rhino horn trade is threatening the animal's extinction. why the surge in rhino poaching? >> reporter: it is falsely believed in places like vietnam that rhino horn can cure all sorts of illnesses. this is fueling the black market which is run by organized criminal syndicates. coming here to south africa with very sophisticated weaponry, night vision, helicopters and hunting down and murdering rhinos. people here are feeling helpless. at the current rate, people feel that rhinos will be extinct within a matter of years. >> thank you. now to occupy wall street. the new york supreme court overturning a ruling meaning that while protesters will be

allowed to demonstrate in the privately owned park during the day, they are barred from setting up camp again. in addition to today's eviction in new york, the officials have cracked down on protests in at california, tulsa, oklahoma oakland, california, st. louis, missouri, portland, oregon, and denver, colorado. and late today, the texas judge cleared the way for the eviction of protesters in dallas. joining us today, poppy harlow. you've been there throughout the day. what is it like tonight? are they going ahead and removing their belongings or no? >> reporter: no, they are actually gathering in a general assembly behind me. i'm told by one of the protestors, this is the biggest he's ever seen, by his estimates about, 1,000 or more protesters. in the park, in one protester's words, this has just galvanized the movement. what we had happen around 5:00 eastern today is in new york, the state supreme court judge reversing the earlier ruling saying the eviction was illegal and upholding the stance of the city and the company that owns this park, saying basically the first amendment rights do not apply to these protesters in

terms of camping out overnight. they have the first amendment right to protest. they cannot set up camp here and live here. there's a lot of anger here at occupy wall street over exactly that. >> poppy, thank you very much. poppy has been covering this since the very early hours this morning when she went and saw the police begin to remove the protesters. let's talk about the first amendment issues. paul callan is with me again. this is an interesting issue. they're being allowed to come in during the day and protest, but you can't camp out and it's a private park. is that okay or what? >> judge stallman, the new york judge who just said it's okay to throw them out temporarily so the city could clean it up comes from a liberal democrat background himself. he's a supporter of the first amendment. there's a long line of cases that says you can restrict time,

manner and place of peaceable protest. it's allowed, and the city here has said this was a public health hazard. there was garbage and human waste accumulating and, by the way, this zuccotti park is kind of private and kind of public. it was given a public easement because zuccotti -- they were allowed, the developer was allowed to build if he created a public-accessible park. >> so it's quasi. >> so nobody really knows if the first amendment totally applies to zuccotti park. but the judge said i will assume it does. even if it does, you don't have a right to camp out there permanently. you can't close down a train station, subway station, public highway to protest. you can reasonably protest at reasonable times and places, that's protected. but you can't move in and deprive the city of new york of one of its parks. >> this is where i'm curious, has this been tested before? you have a community of people who say their lives have been disturbed. they have shops there, they work there.

then you have people coming in protesting. from a first amendment perspective, you have to choose between those people and the protesters, what's the precedent? >> it's been tested repeatedly. the precedent is that as long as it's conextent neutral, in other it's content neutral, in other words, you're not adopting a resolution because of certain kinds of speech. it's a public health regulation. but protesters are going to come in here and say that regulation saying you can't camp out in zuccotti park, it was passed after we started camping out in zuccotti park, which is true. it did come about after the protests because nobody thought that anybody -- >> tents, there are new things that help get established, you try a new thing and test it. >> which is why the judge didn't depend on that regulation. he said the city has garbage regulations and public health regulations that are being violated. take it out, clean it up and protest during the day. what does your ringtone have to do with the future of innovation?

john medved "outfront" with the mojo story. ♪ chips from here, boards from there ♪ ♪ track it all through the air, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ clearing customs like that ♪ hurry up no time flat that's logistics. ♪ ♪ all new technology ups brings to me, ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪ riding the dog like it's a small horse is frowned upon in this establishment! luckily though, ya know, i conceal this bad boy underneath my blanket just so i can get on e-trade. check my investment portfolio, research stocks... wait, why are you taking... oh, i see...solitary. just a man and his thoughts. and a smartphone... with an e-trade app. ♪ nobody knows... [ male announcer ] e-trade. investing unleashed.

♪ i will never make it by without you ♪ that's a ringtone. and it's big business. the ringtone market is a $2.1 billion industry. according to the "new york times," the next big thing in ringtones is a company called ringo. and ringtones are just the

latest thing for ringo's founder, john medved. he's invested in 60 companies, including shopping.com and answers.com. jonathan medved comes "outfront" tonight. great to see you. you're coming outfront to talk about what america can do to ge about what america can do to gek about what america can do to get it back, it being that excitement, we're number one, this is the best place in the world to create a business. >> mojo is state of mind. the real challenge for america is how do you go from silicon valley to silicon nation? there are many companies growing and getting public here. you just don't feel it in cleveland, you don't feel it in rural parts of the country. entrepreneurship is driven by culture. the culture that basically accepts risk taking, that says risk is a good thing, i don't want government to take risk out of my life. risk is something that you just have to live with, okay? >> right. >> and if you build a company, you start a company and it fails, big deal, get over it. that kind of cultural driver for entrepreneurship is absolutely critical. >> how do we get it back in

cleveland? especially where we're in an environment in this country where we seem to feel depressed about ourselves as opposed to feeling empowered that because things have been rough for a while, you now can surge? >> you basically start with the kids. kids today don't know what they don't know. they're ready to dare, they're ready to do it, but they're being told by their parents, you can't do that. for example, my company, ringo. when i wanted to go public on the stock exchange, i didn't have revenue. everyone said, you can't do that. you're never going to get it done. it's not going to happen. i said, uh, watch me. and i went out and we came very close to not making it. you know, failure was at my door, but we succeeded. because without that kind of daring, it's not going to happen. there has to be a culture that accepts failure. that says failure isn't the end of the world?

>> and doesn't have somebody coming out and taking that out of the equation, i.e., government. >> government can't be the thing that's going to essentially cushion your failure. >> what can the government do? >> the government has to realize they're playing in a flat world about and everybody wants these entrepreneurs. and if the american government or any other government doesn't make it hospitable for entrepreneurship, somebody else is going to grab them. but the most important thing is stay out of the way. let the private sector do what it needs to do. in a certain case, for example, in israel, there is a law that gives basically a taxbreak for early-stage venture investors, people are called angels. >> you put money into an unproven company? >> the government says you can write that off. and your basis goes to zero. if you make money, get part of it back or make a lot of money, you pay taxes. but encourages people to take that risk both as an entrepreneur and as an investor. >> we can do that in the u.s.? >> i think we can. >> immigrants are part of it? >> in silicon valley, with all due respect, the people building these companies are not named wilson, jones and smith. they're coming from somewhere