surpass jet fuel. did you know there's only 1800 places on earth to fuel airplanes? i was stunned by that. that's among the things you'll see on our website from richard branson tonight. thanks for watching. we appreciate as always. have a great night. in the meantime, anderson cooper 360 starts in a couple of seconds. erin, thanks very much. good evening everyone. we begin tonight keeping them honest. with your elected representatives in washington with things if you do, you'll land in jail. not if you're a member in congress. hearings were held to stop legal legislative graft. on the outside, could be considered insider trading, shady real estate dealing, even bribery. he wrote a book approximate it, 60 minutes did a stunning report on it. >> why kos does congress get a pass on had? >> it's the way the rules have been defined and the people who make the rules are the political class in washington and they've conveniently written them in such a way they don't apply to themselves. >> the buying and selling of

stock by corporate insiders who have access to nonpublic information that could affect the stock price can be a criminal offense. just ask hedge fund manager roj roger rat number who got prison for doing it. congressional lawmakers have no corporate responsibilities and have long been considered exempt from insider trading laws. even though they have daily access to nonpublic information and plenty of opportunities to trade on it. >> we know that during the healthcare debate, people were trading healthcare stocks. we know that during the financial crisis of 2008, they were getting out of the market before the rest of america knew what was going on. >> steve croft from 60 minutes is going to join us in a moment. what was going on was gop congressmen like spencer back us of alabama and fellows of the house financial services committee were getting dire top secret briefings on the crisis from treasury secretary hank paulson. at the same time, according to

60 minutes, congressman backus started making stock bets that the market would go down. his office says he never trades on nonpublic information but the timing is suspicious. it's a bipartisan story here. take democrat nancy pelosi, the former house speaker. in 2008 she took part in visa credit card company's invitation only vish stock offering buying 5,000 shares just as legislation that would have hurt credit card companies like visa began its trip through the house. legislation that incidentally failed that time. ultimate ultimately, it passed through the senate. steve croft asked her about that. >> i wanted to ask you why you and your husband back in march of 2008 accepted and participated in a very large ipo deal from visa in a time that was major legislation affecting the credit card companies making its way through the house. did you consider that to be a

conflict of interest? >> i don't know what your point is of your question. is there some point that you want to make with that? >> i guess what i'm asking is, do you think it's all right for a speaker to accept a very preferential favorable stock deal. >> well, we didn't. >> you participated in the ipo. at the time you were speaker of the house. you don't think it was a conflict of interest or have the appearance of that? >> no. only appearance if you decide if you're going to elaborate on a false premise. it's not true and that's that. >> i don't understand what part is not true. >> yes, sir? that i would act upon an investment. >> house minority leader nancy pelosi talking to 60 minutes steve croft. kate bolduan kaud up to the congresswoman today. there's a hearing today in senate taking a look at a couple bills to stop or prevent insider trading among members of congress. this, of course, follows a report which you well know you

were one target of this report having to do with that question. would you support such legislation to prevent insider trading amongst members of congress? >> yes. >> is it important to push it through? >> i think it's important. i think that -- i don't think that -- i would hope that it's not as necessary as the hoopde-doo that it seems. i think that we all disclose what we do and that's really important. everything that we do is a matter of public record. so it is in the public domain. so it's not insider. >> whoop dee doo. >> the law only demands disclosure once a year and it may prohibit the deals -- or require lawmakers to put stocks in a blind trust. the in the report, it details more than eyebrow raising stock deals. fofrmer house speaker dennis

hastert came into congress wortd a few hundred thousand dollars. he left a multimillionaire. 60 minutes revealed the earmark he got to run a highway past property that he owned. property he later sold and made $2 million on. speaker hastert is now a lobbyist. his office said the land was rising in value before it bent through. brian baird who joins us shortly as well introduced a bill to disclose stock trades every 90 days and bar them from trading on nonpublic ngs. guess what sm it was three years before it got a hearing. here's ha looked like when the hearing finally happened. see all the empty chairs. no one was interested. listen carefully, you'll hear the sound of crickets chirping. lawmakers getting richer while the public approval shrinks into single digits in a recent poll. there were senate hearings on a pair of bills to address the issue. we're going to talk to melanie sloan who testified. first steve croft who is

reporting prompted congress to act. how big a problem is it? i was stunned when i saw your report initially. >> i was stunned when i heard about it. >> you had no idea that congress didn't have to abide by insider trading rules? >> no. just in response to nancy pelosi's comments about the whoop dee doo. if you or i did -- wient out an bought stock in a company we were doing a story on or sold the stock, we would get a call from the s.e.c. probably within 48 hours. >> right. >> we'd be in danger of losing our jobs because both of our companies have ethics rules that would prohibit us from doing that. in congress, nothing. >> and the idea that they could be inside hearings and hearing about dire financial information back in 2008 about the stock markets, this is going to tank in a few days, the bubble is bursting and to then short the market so that you will actually

profit off the collapse is pretty -- that's stunning. >> one of the most interesting examples is you can be on a healthcare committee, you can have -- learn in advance months in advance the certain drug is going to be disapproved for coverage or for medicare. >> which would have a devastating impact on that company. >> on the drug company and nothing to prohibit you from trading on that. members of congress in healthcare committees did. >> in your report it was amazing because you went around like sort of traipsing around congress to ask people if they knew about this. if they knew about the stock act, the effort to prevent this from happening. and everyone is like, oh, no, never heard of it. sounds like a great idea. never heard of it. >> now, everybody is jumping on the bandwagon. i'm glad to see. this is a bill that didn't draw flies. now it has 138 co-sponsors. everybody wants it now. a few weeks ago -- the bill has

been around for years >> the idea too of congress members -- members of congress doing shady land deals as well. buying land in an area where lo and behold they get an earmark for a highway that goes through that area or close to the area and their land is suddenly worth a lot more. >> yeah, it happens all the time. judge greg from new hampshire was involved in -- he got an earmark to buy an old air force base or that was closed down. he was involved in development around it and his brother was one of the people that was a major involvement in it. and the ethics committee, i think, looked at it and said his defense was, look, as long as my constituents benefit from this earmark, then it's perfectly legal for me to do this. as long as somebody else benefits. doesn't matter -- i can benefit too. >> and when you were trying to get members of congress to actually sit down for interviews, speaker boehner,

nancy pelosi, nobody would do it? >> no. none of them even called us back. they had people call from their spokesman call and give us a written statement. >> right. that's when you ended up at the press conferences asking in public forums trying to get an answer. >> yes, yes. >> how often -- it's pretty remarkable that -- when you get a call from steve croft of 60 minutes, you would expect that foep call to be returned. >> we usually do. >> i want to bring in melanie sloan into the kfgs. she's executive director in washington. i want to bring congressman brian baird who years ago tried to get the ethics bill ball rolling without much luck. congressman, is this another example members of congress playing by a different set of rules from everyone else? >> i'm afraid it is. when i tried to raise this with people, some thought it applied. others said it would be

inconvenient, the implication being that if the kind of rules that apply to other people applied to us, that would be inconvenient. i don't agree with that lonl i can, but it seemed to block the legislation from moving for far too long. >> melanie, after you testified today, did you get the sense that passing the stock act is a priority for congress? >> i definitely got the sense it was a priority for chairman lieberman and ranking member susan collins. they were going to aim to have a markup on the bill by december 15th. but they recognize there were complications to it and it wasn't as simple as passing the legislation in front of them. they need to work on it a little. they had a bunch of securities experts who they'll be talking to and they want it out of their committee by the end of the year. >> it's not just, steve, members of congress, and members of the staff who profit. you talk about political intelligence also. again, i never heard of it. what is that? >> it is essentially as brian baird told us in the 60 minutes piece, a business model successful business model in

washington that would be a criminal enterprise anyplace else. it involves political firms usually with former staffers and congressmen and senators on their staff going around, getting nonpublic information and then selling it to clients. which we don't really know very much about the clients other than we know that some hedge funds are involved in it. >> congressman, how does that work? basically, it's like intelligence operatives basically talking to former friends, what's the scuttlebutt about this bill or that bill? >> well, the key is, you know, if it's public information from a hearing, that's okay. but the real value comes from the nonpublic information and that's the intelligence part of it. you're trying to get information before the other guy does and again in the corporate world, if it's from inside the company and not public, it's illegal. in congress it's incredibly valuable and not clearly legal. that's how the intel firms work. they're not happy with my

efforts to say you have to disclose your clients so we can see who is trading on this information. >> melanie, does the current bill address these firms at all? >> the current bill does address that. that wasn't discussed at the hearing today. they may well put that question off to another day because it raises other issues that they haven't explored yet and they don't seem in as big a rush to deal with that as they are with insider trading things. it's in large part because of the 60 minutes story and the occupy wall street movement and the incredibly low regard in which most americans are holding congress these days. 46% of americans believe that congress is corrupt. >> and congressman, when you introduced the stock act and you had a handful of co-sponsors, had a difficult time getting any hearings. now as steve pointed out, the bill has over a hundred co-sponsors and counting -- do you feel vindicated? >> well, i won't until we solve the problem. the fact that we have over a

hundred co-sponsors. we still need 435. i think every member of congress ought to say this is wrong and fix it. whether or not they vote for it, we have to hold -- than we impose on the rest of the public is not going to fly politically or as good policy. >> i can't imagine steve, any member of congress publicly disagreeing with this idea. >> i think it has to pass and everybody has to sign it otherwise they'll be vulnerable to these kinds of questions in november elections next year. >> we should call up every member of congress and ask them where they stand and get them on the record as we've done in other things. maybe we'll do that. thanks, steve croft, melanie sloan, congressman brian baird, appreciate your time, sir. let us know what you think on facebook, twitter, i'll be tweeting tonight. a pharmacy full of drugs being prescribed to young kids. we're not just talking ritalin, two drugs, three drugs. we're talking five drugs

combinations of mind altering medications. we're talking about a report, and perspectives from dr. sanjay gupta. ungodly discipline, our series continues looking at the disciplining of kids in schools. a former assistant principal who lobbies for corporal punishment in parochial schools is accused of paddling his former students. those students say they will never forget it. >> whack, whack. i would never cry and the man hated that i wouldn't cry. this time he got me to cry. but -- i said this guy isn't going to stop. >> our gary tuchman investigates ahead on the program. [ engine revs ] ♪ [ male announcer ] oh what fun it is to ride. get the mercedes-benz on your wish list at the winter event going on now.

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and prescription drug coverage for nothing more than what you already pay for medicare part b. don't wait another day. you only have until december 7th to make sure you get the medicare coverage you need. call unitedhealthcare to learn about medicare plans that may be right for you. with some plans, you can enroll right over the phone. don't wait. call now. keeping them honest. on kids and mind altering drugs. psychiatric medications prescribed by doctors and given in doses that are mind blowing to society's vulnerable kids. powerful tranquilizers and sedatives, all the familiar brands, prozac, ambien, zoloft. with the familiar side effects given to kids, sometimes infants. it's been documented in a new report from the government accountability office, the gao which looked at foster kids and

other children in five states. what it found is that foster kids were anywhere from two four times more likely to be prescribed psychotropic drugs. found more than 20,000 kids taking more than the maximum recommended dosages. higher dosages than recommended. 1700 kids in both groups were taking five or more different drugs at the same time. five mind altering drugs or more at once. according to the report, more than 4,000 infants were on psychotropic drugs. kids a-year-old or younger given drugs that no child should actually take. the report points out that many of the foster kids have greater mental health needs because of what they've been through in life. yet, the report warns there are potentially at higher risk for health problems "according to gao's experts, no evidence support the use of five or more psychotropic drugs in adults or

children." thousands of kids in or out of foster care on such combinations. many of the drugs are nightmarishly hard to quit as we found. >>. [ screaming ] >> those were kids going through withdrawal. the question is, are we overmedicating kids, in particular the most vulnerable of kids and if so, why? digging deeper, sanjay gupta, the court special appointed -- the number of kids being medicated seems high. in some cases kids run five or more drugs at one time and at levels exceeding fda regulations. what do you make of it? >> first of all, there's not a lot of data or guidelines and using some of these medications in children that young.

so it's striking just from that regard alone. flying a little bit blind and then as you read, anderson, sometimes five or even more of the medications being used in the same child, it was pretty striking. a lot of my colleagues and i were talking about this today that the concern of some of the foster children have been neglected, have been abused may need some sort of therapy but using this many medications, i think, was concerning for everybody. also, the longer term effect an on the brain. something i'm interested in. we just don't know. a lot of the medications, anderson, are tested in adults first. a lot of the data in terms of safety comes out of adult data. it's hard to apply some of that to children. there can be long-term effects on the brain and some of the medications cause significant weight gain. some of the medications can double even triple the rigs risk of a child developing diabetes down the road. you know, i think there's lots of reasons to be concerned.

with one thing i tell you quick. here's what michael says. we talk to others who say in the general population, we're seeing the study now. but in the general population, nonmedicated children, children not in foster care, the numbers if you sat down and analyzed them would also likely be strikingly high. >> michael, you say this is one of the biggest concerns that you're hearing from people working with foster kids. i mean, are kids in the system being given drugs that they don't need? because that's what it seems like in this report. >> it really feels like that. the numbers that you read are awful. when you hear the stories, the suffering that kids are going through when they have five. but they're even more medications some kids have. there are kids with 12. they describe being like zombies and the suffering they go through is terrible. we feel strongly that this is a serious issue and it needs to be changed. >> i mean, i can understand, michael, kids who are in the foster care system may be

obviously they're dealing with issues that come from different backgrounds and they might have a higher incidence of needing medication. but the combinations, the high numbers of combinations beyond what's actually effective, that may be counter active and also the age of some of the kids, giving children under the age of one-year-old some of these medications, this is as sanjay was saying, uncharted territory. >> i can't imagine giving infants these drugs. but on the other hand, we've heard of toddlers, toddlers who have been placed in hospitals for behavior problems and then they're put on medications. i'm not a physician, but i can't believe that we can't do better, can't provide better care, better thoughtful diagnosis when we do need to use these drugs. to me, this is one of the big issues is this is a system that is chronically short of time for kids. if you're going to be using psychotropic medications can

them, touf do it carefully. >> sanjay, the gao reporter is saying there's no evidence about the efficacy of using five or more of these drugs. >> right. and that's part of the problem. that data, we looked hard for it today in terms of using that many drugs, isn't readily available in adults even. in whom the drugs have been tested. even less so in children. you mentioned, anderson, about children under the age of one. that completely blew me away when i read that. >> 4,000 infants under the age of one are being given medication. >> i don't even know how they're diagnosing a problem. so we made calls on this trying to figure out what was going on. as you might expect, if you try and dig a little deeper, a child might be getting medications because they're colicky, crying, difficult to care for in some way in that setting. i have some of the numbers in front of me. a lot of the medications being prescribed in children that young were antihistamine med

kags. anti-anxiety medications but like benadryl for example, which aren't recommended in children under two in the first place. they give this medication to try and put these kids to sleep. they're doing it in the high numbers that you just mentioned. >> michael, ha needs to be done to fix the situation? >> i think at least four things have to be done. one is in every state there ought to be court review of the use of psychotropic medications on every one of these kids. the other one is there has to be informed consent for young people who are capable of giving it and that is not consistent across the states. we also need more mental healthcare providers, child psychiatrists and psychologists and i would propose we look at loan modifications and loan forgiveness for them if they're willing to treat foster youth. every one of these kids needs an advocate. we really need to make sure that somebody is watching. if things aren't going right, somebody raises the alarm and says something is wrong for

every one of these kids we need that. >> sounds like all good advice. michael, appreciate your time and expertise, sanjay as well. >> thanks, anderson. >> shocking report. still ahead, a new look at an apparently deadly hazing incident. we have the 911 call made after robert champion collapsed on the team bus after a football game. we'll hear from the former band director who was fired because officials say he didn't stop hazing in his marching band. also ahead tonight, our series continues, ungodly discipline in school. he's accused of spanking his students. >> the fist one i started crying. i just remember counting as i pretty much went into a private place in my mind so i didn't have to feel anything. and i kept going and it kept going. i said, this guy is not going to stop. he's going to kill me. [ male announcer ] sometimes a hint

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tonight disturbing details about the death of robert champion, a drum major at florida a&m university who died in a parking lot after performing at a football game. investigators have said that hazing was involved. they've given no other details. today authorities released a 911 call made from that parking lot after champion collapsed. we're going to play it in a moment. the school expelled four students involved in the incident. the band director fired shortly after the he died is firing back at the school. he's been warning school officials for years he insists about dangerous hazing in the band. >> one thing about this entire event, i have a zero tolerance for hazing. and the record documents that i have provided leadership, proper

leadership and guidance as well as bringing attention to the fact that we do have a zero tolerance for hazing in the band and in the university. >> the medical examiner has still not reported a cause of death for robert champion who was 26 years old. but the 911 call gives new details about his final moments. david mattingly joins me now. let's listen to a portion of the call for help. >> are you with the person right now? >> well, i'm outside the bus so i can hear you. >> okay. so he's inside the bus? >> yes, he's inside the bus. >> okay. how old is he had. >> he is 25. >> okay. is he awake? >> he wasn't responding. we thought he was breathing, he was making noises imt but i don't even know if he's breathing now. >> okay. is he awake do you know? >> his eyes are open. he's not responding. >> okay. but is he breathing? >> i have no idea. i cannot tell you that.

>> okay. >> he just threw up. >> he just threw up. >> yeah. >> like i said, i have help on the way. i want you to keep -- was he like shaking or anything like that prior to this? >> no. he wasn't shaking. >> you interviewed robert champion's parents after his death. what we're hearing on the tapes, is that consistent with what they say happened that night? >> yes, it is consistent but that only goes so far. there's no clear cause of death released. the sheriff has said that hazing was involved. we don't know to what extent. when i talked to his parents, they did confirm that they talked to the doctors fighting to save their son's life that night. i asked them, what did the doctors tell you in did they see any signs of injuries or anything that contributed to the death? on the advice of their attorney, they're not answering that question. they want their own answers, they want to root out what they call this culture of hazing that they believe is going on at this

university as well as the culture of silence they say that goes along with it. so when we heard the 911 tapes, it's the first sign that we've seen of anything that's been going on behind the scenes with this. we heard in this 911 tape how robert champion's friends, his fellow band members were rushing to his aid and doing everything they possibly could, quite possibly in his final moments of life. listen. >> is he putting him on his back? >> excuse me? >> is he flat on his back? >> yeah. we're trying to get him on his back now. >> okay. >> all right. cool. he is flat. he is flat on his back. >> he is? okay. i want you to kneel next to him and look in his mouth for food or vomit. >> yes. it's vomit. >> there is vomit in his mouth? >> yes.

>> okay. then i want you to turn his head to the side and clean out his mouth and his nose. >> can you hear me? >> what? >> sir, can you hear me? >> did the university's obviously fired the band director. the governor is looking for more action. >> governor rick scott getting more involved as the days go by. he originally said the state needs to investigate and he's call on a state investigation. apparently not happy with just the university itself investigating this incident. he's also now calling on all universities in the state of florida to re-examine their hazing policies to make sure everyone knows that this is a practice that is absolutely condemned. well, everything we're hearing out of florida a&m is that, as you heard the band director say, he was very aggressive in trying to stop this. he holds workshops every year. he makes sure that the students know not only is it illegal in the state of florida to be

involved in hazing, but it's something that could get you kicked out of the band. in the weeks leading up to this incident, he actually kicked almost 30 members of this band out for hazing. so he's saying there wasn't enough follow-up higher up the chain at this university to make sure that this was rooted out. this is something that's going to be obviously worked out in the courts as we go along. >> lot of questions about what happened on that bus that led to this. david mattingly, appreciate. let's check other stories. susan hendricks has more. thanks. serious crackdown on demonstrators killed at least 4,000 people since march. that's according to the commissioner for human rights who says the number could actually be much higher than that. a local activist group says 23 people were killed today. official results from the first round of parliamentary voting won't come until tomorrow or saturday. egyptians voted for the first

time since hosni mubarak was forced out of power. on this world a.i.d.s. day, president obama announced a new investment in treatment options across the country. the a.i.d.s. virus was discovered 30 years ago. more than 600,000 americans have died from it. president obama and the first family helped to light the national christmas tree in washington. this was the 89th tree lighting ceremony. the tradition began with president coolidge in 1923. new moms, if you named your baby sophia. it tops the survey of the baby names. followed by emma, isabella, owe live why i can't. jackson, mason, liam and jacob rounding out the top five. another name is proving to be a contender. check this out from the "today" show. >> you say there's an anderson cooper effect? >> he's the baby name man of the

year. this is a first name and rising on the list. anderson is up 101 spots on the list. >> wow. >> babies with gray hair? >> that's right. >> very, very blond hair. >> and cooper as well? >> cooper. which maybe bradley cooper. he's a sexiest man alive. >> no. it's not bradley cooper? >> come on. what are you nuts? >> please. who is bradley cooper? >> who is that? >> never met him in the family reunion. wow. i just heard about this. still, though, there's this -- but it's climbed off the list. it's still number 600 or something on the list. >> no. come on. it's an anderson cooper effect. >> all right. susan, thanks very much. we'll check back with you shortly. at a christian school in wisconsin spankings in the name of god. the students who are hit, they're adults now and angry and they're speaking out. >> i was in pain and in addition to it, it was humiliation too

because i knew that once the spanking was over, i don't know which hurt worse, the spanking or going back to class and having everyone look at you and know that that's what just happened to you. also ahead, is former penn state coach jerry sandusky getting ready to make a plea deal? what do the lawyers say? the answer coming up. ♪ - ♪ bum-bum, bum-bum - ♪ [ ice rattles rhythmically ] ♪ bum-bum, bum-bum, bum-bum ♪ ♪ [ imitates guitar noise ] ♪ [ vocalizing up-tempo heavy metal song ] ♪ [ vocalizing continues ] ♪ [ all singing ] the redesigned, 8-passenger pilot. smarter thinking. from honda. with thermacare heatwraps. that's 8 hours while you wear it, plus an additional 8 hours of relief after you take it off. can your patch say that? for up to 16 hours of relief...

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crime and punishment tonight, over the last couple

months, we've been reporting on parents who spank their kids in the name of god, often using implements like rods or rulers. it's a story we first called ungodly discipline. these parents believe the bible tells them it's their duty to spank their kids with paddles or objects. the leaders have preserved the right to hit children at schools. this man founded a group called wisconsin capital watch and lobbied the lawmakers in the state for years on this issued and was an assistant principal at a school in wisconsin where some students remember him all too well. here's gary tuchman's report. >> he picked up the board and it's a rather thick wooden board. it has holes drilled in it. and i got five swats pretty hard with it. >> amy cranke is 39 years old, a wife and mother. but she vividly remembers what happened to her in elementary school. what she calls beatings in the

name of god. >> i cried every time i had to go in there. >> doug mcnell said he was hit about the by the same man as amy. >> show me the force that was krood with the paddle. >> it was up against the wall. my body was just -- the chair was up against the wall. if it wasn't, i would have fallen over. that's why it was like that. >> scott mcnell is doug's brother. >> it hurt like anything you can ever imagine. >> nancy mcnell is their mother. >> it was huge, long, made out of oak with a handle on it. and it holes drilled in it to cut the wind resistance so you could get the hardest impact. >> what was the name of the assistant principal who hit your son? >> marvin mun i don't know. >> it's nice to have you here. >> this is him. making an appearance on a christian tv station in wisconsin. >> back in the 1980s, he was an assistant principal at the

calvary baptist school in watertown, wisconsin. proponents of spanking say it comes from the urging of of the bible not to spare the rod. their translation, children should be physically punished. marvin munyon left in 1986 but before and after he was an influential state lobbyist. one of his main interests? protecting the right to spank students in wisconsin's private schools. he's been successful at that, it's still allowed. but corporal punishment is banned in the public schools in wisconsin. just a few months ago, he talked about legislation which would increase the number of school staff obliged to tell police about suspected abuse. >> every employee in the school system would be required to be mandatory reporters of child abuse and neglect. >> it's abuse that several former students are saying they suffered at the hands of munyon. they said they were beaten, not just spankds. >> i was in pain and in addition it was humiliation. i knew that once the spanking was over, i don't know which

hurt worse, the spanking or going pack to class and having everyone look at you and know that that's what just happened to you. >> you start whack, whack. i would never cry and the man hated that i wouldn't cry. this time he got me to cry. the fist swat, i said this guy isn't going to stop. i was always good at math. my dad was a math teacher. i was counting. i started crying and i remember counting as i pretty much went into a private place in my mind so i didn't have to feel anything. and i kept going and it kept going. i said this guy is not going to stop. he's going to kill me. it stopped at 53. >> he was crying and i said who spanked you. he said mr. mun yon and he said my butt is pleading. he was old enough that i wasn't going to pull his pants down but

i looked. i looked at the upper part of his buttocks. there was strike marks with little beads of blood on it. >> marvin munyon lives in this house, minutes away from calvary baptist. i've talked to him on the phone several times. i requested an on camera interview with him. first he said yes, then he later changed his mind and said no and then maybe. after that he said i need to talk to my lawyer. finally he stopped answering my calls. the pastor who leads the church wasn't in charge when munyon was there but regards him as a friend. >> do you think before you came to this institution that on some occasions there was abuse by the teachers? >> no, i don't. >> pastor robert loggins says munyon acknowledged he carried out corporal punishment but lawfully without marks or bruises. the pastor no longer allows it at the school. instead, he leaves it up to the parents at home. >> if he used a paddle with holes in it to hit children,

would that have been abusive? >> i really don't know. i am not sure. >> so you're not sure because you're feeling like you don't want to criticize marvin munyon or you don't know if that's abuse or not snoo. >> i don't know if that's abuse or not. i know the teachers used it in the public schools. i never looked at it as abuse. >> if a teacher did that today in our school. >> we wouldn't allow them. >> would you consider it abusive today? >> i probably would use. nancy worked at the school with her husband. she felt if she didn't let her children get hit. >> i would not be right with god and my kids wouldn't be right with god. i was indoctrinated with this. >> something she feels terrible about now. her son doug has serious health problems. he's an alcoholic and considers himself a broken man. he says he's never been able to recover from his discipline from marvin munyon. >> you were only a child and

here you are at the age of 41 and you're still reliving it. >> it doesn't go away. it will never go away. >> so munyon declined to go on camera with you. during the number of phone conversations you had, did he say anything about the ak sayings in. >> what's interesting, he said initially he would go on camera with me and admitted that he spanked students when he was an administrator at the school. when i called him back to set up the exact date, then he was much less interested in talking to me and frnkly, i think it's because he saw some of our coverage. he got very paranoid about this, about this interview while i was talking to him on the phone. at one point he said are you recording this? i said no. i just want your viewpoint. he did not want to talk to me on camera or on the record about the accusations. we gave him lots of opportunities to talk to us. >> gary, appreciate it.

thanks very much. up next, will former penn state coach jerry sandusky take a plea deal or not? his lawyer speaks out. herman cain talks about what his wife knew about his connection to an atlanta woman who claims she had a 13-year affair with him. did his wife actually know about it? find out, ahead. or hires another employee, it's not just good for business. it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities. that's why we extended $13.2 billion to small businesses across the country so far this year. because the more we help them, the more we help make opportunity possible.

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anderson, no plea deal from jerry sandusky according to the former penn state coach's attorney who responded to rumors that he will cop a plea. sandusky faces child sex abuse charges in a civil suit as well. he claims he's innocent. herman cain met with the editorial board of the new hampshire union leader and said he gave money on a regular basis to ginger white without telling his wife. white claims she had a 13-year affair with cain. he says it was a friendship and nothing more. . on wall street, a mixed day for stocks after yesterday's big rally. the dow lost 26 points, the s&p fell two and the nasdaq added six points. talk approximate a super profit. number one, superman made his debut in 1938. the comic book sold at an on-line auction for $2.16 million. the seller, actor nicolas cage. cage bought the original 14 years for 150 grand. >> that's amazing. the profit on that.

who knew? >> someone wanted that book. >> good for him i guess. susan, thanks very much. here's piers morgan with more on his show. thanks, anderson. breaking news on herman cain's campaign. i'll talk to the candidate's attorney, lin wood in what's a pretty high explosive interview in which we lock horns about the merits of all the charges against his client and he hits back pretty strongly. we'll also ask insiders what this means for the republican party and their efforts to retab the white house. that and more at the top of the hour. anderson, back to you. >> thanks, piers. look forward to that. achieving internet fame for all the wrong reasons and wind up on theory dick lust. the sports car edition next. whoa. whoa. how do you top great vacations? whoa. getting twice the points on great vacations.

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time now for the ridiculist. we're adding the texas vette racers. i'm talking about two specific guys and an incident in houston. a guy named jared was going to pick up a turkey for his family when he noticed two guys revving their engines at a stoplight. he got out his film and started filming and narrating. >> little kid crossing the street. let's see how stupid these guys are. middle of the woodlands. >> biker.

>> and yep. knew that was coming. >> that, ladies and gentlemen, is what you call karma with a c, revved up, fully loaded sports karma. how did they explain this. two beautiful cars wrecked and for what? a drag race on thanksgiving day on a street with kids and joggers and bikes going by. way to go, guys. way to go. they weren't injured. according to the montgomery county police reporter, one said his leg hurt and he was dizzy. i think he meant ditzy. did i mentioned he was driving with a suspended license? oh, yeah, he was jared, posted this video on you-tube and titled it two turkeys on thanksgiving wrecking their corvettes in the woodland. it's gotten a few million hits. arrest warrants have been issued for both the drivers. jared breaks it down as follows

to houston news station ktrk. >> these were adult. to act this way to me is irresponsible. >> irresponsible, illogical, idiotic. those are the words starting with i that i can think of. >> maybe this will help teach somebody a lesson if they face consequences that hey, before i pull up and race this guy, i remember what happened those guys on you-tube and maybe it will save lives. >> saves liefg one video at a time. the cautionary tales from street racing comes from better off dead. >> you must obey the proper speed limits. a car is not a toy. >> so the moral of the story is unless it's 1985 abdomen your name is john cusack, don't race on the street. if you don't kill someone, you might wreck your corvette and