strike zone. isn't that treating reporters like little leaguers? that's it for this edition of "reliable sources." i'm howard kurtz. join us next sunday morning 11:00 a.m. eastern for another critical look at the media. down load our program as a podcast on itunes. "state of the union" with candy crowley begins right now. the campaign trail. en fuego. the words are sharp and time is short. today, all in in iowa. a conversation with rick santorum. then, going negative on newt. we talk to romney surrogate john sununu and gingrich supporter bob walker. debates, presidential politics, and an unpopular congress with anita dunn and tom davis. and the future of the mailman with postmaster general patrick donahue. i'm candy crowley and this is "state of the union." there was a boxing match

here in washington last night, but the real punches were thrown in des moines. >> let's be candid. the only reason you didn't become a career politician is you lost to teddy kennedy in 1994. >> the last thing bibbyi netanyu needs to have is not just a person who is an historian but also someone who is running for president of the united states stand up and say things that create extraordinary tumult in his neighborhood. >> if you want a difference, michele bachmann is the difference. >> if freddie mac is bailed out by a bailout, so i think, newt, you got some of our taxpayer money. >> if you will cheat on your wife, if you will cheat on your spouse, then why wouldn't you cheat on your business partner or why wouldn't you cheat on anybody for that matter? >> back in 1984, newt, i was running for the united states senate and i did not support an individual mandate and i was a conservative. you strayed on that issue as you have on others. the record is important. >> and presidential candidate rick santorum joins me now from des moines. senator, thank you for joining us.

let me talk to you about the topic of the day and get your take on why you think at this point newt gingrich is doing so well. >> you know, i think people are looking for a strong conservative leader, and that's what we've been out talking to the people of iowa about. newt's done well at the debates. i think that's been his forte. his forte is glib. there's no question about it. newt is full of ideas and has a professor-teacher mentality, if you will, an ability, and i think he's connecting with the audiences out there. i think people are also going to look at his leadership ability and look at his record and whether what he says he's going to do is actually what he did when he had the opportunity to do it. and i think that's where as people start focusing a lot more on those details, i think that's where we're going to rise and in fact are rising here in iowa, that if you look at the leadership difference between

the two of us, i was able to lead and successfully get a lot of things done when i was in washington, d.c. and had the respect of my colleagues, was elected to leadership positions and i think newt had, let's say, a much more difficult path once he was in leadership. it wasn't just about ideas, it is about executing those -- on those ideas, and i was successful in doing so, and i would say that newt had a bit of a problem that caused him to not have a lot of support among his colleagues and had problems as speaker. i think that's going to be a difference between the two of us. the other thing is, the issue of being a consistent conservative, someone -- trust is a big deal. >> sure. and the consistent conservative is something that you've hit very hard on, saying, look, i'm the real conservative in the race. you have suggested that newt gingrich is not. and yet in poll after poll, what we're seeing is that members of the tea party, which i think you would agree are the most conservative element of the

republican party, overwhelmingly are supporting newt gingrich at this point. >> yeah. i would still say it is, believe it or not, still early. there's still three weeks left even before iowa. a lot of information is yet to disseminate out, and i think as it continues to get out there and settle in people's minds, they're going to see a very different record. it is interesting if you watched the debate last night between romney and gingrich, they were back and forth on some peripheral issues but the core issues, whether it was the wall street bailout or cap in trade and globe global warming which is a huge government takeover. the same thing with individual mandate. again, another big top-down government takeover of a sector of the economy, gingrich and romney are in the same place. that's not -- heck, the tea party was formed as a result of big government and the health care issue and gingrich is on the wrong side. i think we need -- and i think

the tea party people realize -- we need a clean, clear contrast. we need this race to be about barack obama and his record, not with republicans agreeing about that record. that's the last thing we should nominate is someone who has a bad record on some of the most important issues that we're going to be dealing with, like bailing out wall street, like climate change, like the obama care. >> on the substance of things that you talked about, but you also mentioned earlier the idea of leadership, what kind of a leader would newt gingrich be, what kind of a leader has he been. i want to play you sort of a montage of what some of those who worked with him in the house had to say. >> most of us are terrified to death that he would become the republican nominee. we know that he has these visions of grandiosity. >> i'm not inclined to be a supporter of newt gingrich's having served under him for four years and experienced personally his leadership. >> he's too self-centered. the time he was speaker was one crisis after another and they were almost all self-inflicted.

he puts himself at the center of everything. >> susan molinari, tom coburn, peter king, all names familiar to you, i know. you have, in fact, praised newt gingrich along the line saying he was an inspiration to you, sort of getting you on your conservative path in politics. will the real newt gingrich stand up, which is it? is he a man who you say has some questions about his leadership or is it the guy who's been kind of a far-away mentor to you? >> he is a great teacher. that's what he is. he is a very good teacher. he was a teacher before he came into politics and he's a very bright man who has a lot of ideas. the question is, can you stay focused on those ideas, can you execute those ideas, and can you motivate the american public to be able to support those ideas. >> but does he have the temperament to be in the oval office? do you think he has the temperament to be in the oval office? >> well, i would just say, look at the experience he had as speaker and look at my

experience i had when i was in leadership in the united states senate. >> and what do you think? >> three years into his -- i would just say, three years into his speakership there was a conservative revolution to try to get rid of him as speaker. that doesn't happen very often where you have the speaker of the house in a time when republicans are on the ascendancy and the person who led them in large respect to that would have that kind of rebellion within the ranks among conservatives. i think that should tell you something and just the opposite, i was a leader. if you were a conservative around this country and you wanted something done in the united states senate, you came to rick santorum's office because that's where it got done, whether it was national security or agricultural or economic, second amendment, we were the go-to guy to get conservative things accomplished in the united states senate. i just think that's a very distinct difference between a conservative revolution among house members about his leadership as opposed to conservatives coming to rick santorum and trying to get things done in the united states senate.

>> let me move you along to something that you said last wednesday at a republican jewish conference talking about the president, his foreign policy. i'm going to play that for our viewers as well as something that the president said in response. >> this president, for every thug and hooligan, for every radical islamist, he has had nothing but appeasement. >> ask osama bin laden and the 22 out of 30 top al qaeda leaders who have been taken off the field whether i engage in appeasement. >> appeasement? i mean this is a president who's killed more terrorists than were killed in the bush administration. he took out osama bin laden. he has launched more drone attacks against terrorist targets than the bush administration did and yet you accuse him of appeasement, which is a very loaded word, as you know, toward terrorists. >> it's a very accurate word.

what president obama was doing was continuing existing bush policies with respect to al qaeda and respect to afghanistan. i was talking about the new threats that have come up under his administration. and at every single turn the president has appeased those who would do us harm. let's talk about president ahmadinejad and the iranians who are the biggest threat to israel and to our national security. he has done nothing but appease the iranians to say that he will negotiate -- in fact did negotiate -- >> he imposed sanctions, did he not? >> he opposed weak sanctions. he opposed tough sanctions. >> imposed. >> and continues to impose any meaningful sanctions on the iranians. he has done nothing to try to stop their nuclear program. i mean we have a nuclear program that is underweight. he's refusing to do anything covertly or militarily to try to stop the development of a weapon

that will fundamentally change the national security position of this country and the world by having this purveyor of terror who has -- >> what would rick santorum do -- >> purveyor of terror -- rick santorum would be funding the pro democracy movement, which president obama has not done. there was a bill that i passed, i was author of back in 2006 that gave money -- was supposed to give money to help the pro-democracy movement in iran. the president has not spent a penny in iran to try to do that. imposing tougher sanctions, which the president has opposed. number three, we would be using all of our assets to use covert activity to disrupt and destroy the capability of them to develop a missile technology as well as nuclear technology. and fourth, i would be working with the israelis and publicly stating that iran must abandon this nuclear weapons program, must open it up to inspectors or else we will work with the state of israel to take out and degrade that capability via military force.

>> let me try to button this up by saying a couple things. first, i know the president has in fact imposed some tougher sanctions and has said nothing's off the table when it comes to iran and its nuclear capabilities -- >> candy, hold on. hold on. stop, candy. that's just not true. ask robert menendez and ask all the folks in the united states senate who want to impose the real sanction that will make a difference on iran, and the president has opposed it. now that's just a fact. he also has recognized the state of syria, called assad a reformer, has continued to have an embassy there when in fact this is a real thug that is a real threat to the state of israel and to the stability of the region. and again, here's the interesting link. this is a state of iran -- the greatest area he's appeased is iran, which is the greatest threat, and here he is, recognizing assad setting up an ambassadorship with a client state of iran who is a great funder of hezbollah, a threat to israel and the region. you go to egypt. again, he supported the muslim

brotherhood as it turns out into overthrowing an ally in egypt. there is a consistent pattern of contingencies that have come up under this administration where he has opposed the freedom fighters and has gone with the radical islamists. that is a problem for the security of israel and our country. >> okay. let me move you on. i think we could probably go round and round a couple times on this, but two really quick questions here, if i could. the first is, have you in fact talked to sarah palin about receiving her endorsement? and do you intend to follow through and, as far as you know, is the trump-moderated debate going to happen with the two of you, newt gingrich and you? >> well, i certainly hope so. donald trump i think would be fairer than a lot of the folks that have been moderating debates over the past few months. >> what about sarah palin? >> i would look -- sarah palin? i reached out to her just to thank her for her kind comments and said i'd appreciate any help that she could give us.

she was very kind in responding. she's going to make her decision as to when she's going to endorse or if she's going to endorse. i did not reach out to her before she made the kind comments about me and, but i did want to thank her for doing so. >> senator and presidential candidate rick santorum, thanks so much for your time today. later in the program, when you're a presidential candidate, everything about you becomes relevant, even your high school nickname. we'll tell you what rick santorum's classmates called him. but next, is newt gingrich a changed man? >> i mean, i think he is a vastly more mature, much calmer individual at this point, that he really is of a temperament these days to become president of the united states. >> the conservatives that he's turned his back on should recognize the fact that he's not a conservative. and people that care about that point to other things, his endorsement and co-sponsoring of legislation in 1989 with nancy pelosi. ♪

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joining me now from manchester, new hampshire, john sununu, former governor of new hampshire and supporter of mitt romney. here in washington, bob walker, form you are u.s. congressman who is advising the gingrich campaign. je mank, thank you for being here. >> nice to be with you. >> if only because the calendar is closing in on them and because the race still appears to be pretty fluid, it was quite the debate last night. the consensus seems to be, reading some of the analysis, that newt gingrich held his own and did very well and that mitt romney made a huge mistake. so i want to start out just by playing for our viewers something that happened last night in the debate between rick perry and mitt romney. >> i'm just saying, you are for individual mandates, my friend. >> you know what? you've raised that before, rick. and you're simply wrong. >> it was true then. and it's true now. >> no, rick.

i'll tell you what. 10,000 bucks? $10,000 bet? >> i'm not in the betting business -- >> oh, okay. okay. >> governor sununu, first to you. this is widely being interpreted as yet another example of mitt romney not totally being in touch with the american people. the democrats are off and running with what could you do with $10,000. your response. >> well, look. he used a figure of speech. i think the only thing that will come out of that is remind people about a $5,000 -- $500,000 outstanding bill at tiffany's. those are not the things you should judge whether somebody should be a president. >> they aren't. but don't -- sure, but people do judge -- i mean these little moments get bigger than they are. i will grant you that. but nonetheless, that's what happens. is this harmful to him, do you think? >> look, you have the same thing happen to poor rick perry. i think rick perry would make a decent president, but to have him judged by a 30-second senior

moment is as silly as -- and as unwise as judging people on the basis of a 30-second quip or a response in a debate. you've got to go to the issues. this country has big problems. we have a jobs problem. we have a president that's doing nothing on jobs. i think what mitt romney did last night was focus on jobs. and i think that's the right place to go. >> congressman, on a scale of one to ten, how damaging is that kind of clip, which i can assure you is getting played all over the place. >> the fact is that anything that comes out of these debates that ends up being carried in the way that this one is is going to be harmful. but i agree with john sununu that there needs to be a focus on the big issues, which is exactly where newt gingrich has been throughout this campaign. he has focused on the need for economic growth and how we can create jobs in this country. he's focused on the need for changing our foreign policy so

that we speak with a very, very strong voice in foreign policy. i mean he has made the campaign an issue-oriented campaign and has not done the kind of thing that you just heard from the romney campaign of going personal all the time in terms of the debate formats. >> it is easy not to go personal when in fact you are the front-runner. >> he hasn't been the front-runner -- >> but that's not true. last night governor romney avoided going personal. >> but you just went personal a few minutes ago, john. >> on what? >> well, using the business of the tiffany stuff. it -- that's a very personal thing. >> isn't that analogous to the $10,000? >> no, it is not at all. it is not at all. >> oh, come on. come on. >> the fact is that the quip by governor romney last night fits a matter of perception and so on. but the fact is here that newt

continues to be a positive force in this campaign. he continues to define the big issues. the people who are coming after him are coming after him largely for speaking the truth, and that is a major item in this campaign. the fact is that he spoke the truth about the palestinian history. the fact is he's spoken the truth about the need for tax cuts. >> that's absolutely -- that's absolutely ridiculous. and the fact is that what he did with that statement on the palestinian history is take bipartisan u.s. policy that's been the policy of a number of previous presidents, of both parties, and a u.s. policy that is trying to deal with a tough fragile situation in the middle east, and in an effort to put himself above the whole -- a little smarter than everyone he throws out a phrase that can undermine the u.s. capacity to deal with issues. >> spoken just like an establishment republican, candy. the fact is that all those establishment republicans opposed ronald reagan when he called the soviet union the evil empire and so on. >> he was already president at the time.

>> the establishment republicans supported ronald reagan. >> that is not the fact, john. the fact is establishment republicans turned on reagan at that point -- >> oh, come on. you guys are trying to wrap yourself in mantels of grandeur with churchill and reagan. i got news for you. >> it is not a matter of grandeur at all. >> yes, it is. every time this man speaks he tries to put himself in a position where he's perceived as being better than those that are involved in the discussion. >> that's just wrong. the fact is that newt gingrich throughout this campaign -- >> he did it to paul ryan! he did it to paul ryan! he took paul ryan and threw him under the bus! >> john, you going to let me talk for a minute? >> governor, hang on one second. i'd just like to get a word in here. go ahead. >> the fact is that throughout this campaign it has been newt gingrich who has praised the other candidates and so on for the strengths they bring to the campaign. >> let me first of all, for those of our listeners who may not have known what newt gingrich said, he was talking to the jewish channel and he was

talking about the israeli-palestinian dispute and here's what he had to say. >> i think that we've had an invented palestinian people who are in fact arabs. >> listen, this has set off the palestinian world. it does run against how u.s. policy at this point which is trying to find a statehood for the palestinians and a peace for israel. but let me take it to what's really going on here and it is really not about u.s.-israeli policy. it is about the temperament of newt gingrich. governor sununu, you have suggested he is not stable. we do have some of his former colleagues, certainly not congressman walker, but some of newt's former colleagues, coming out and going, whoa, you know, the guy is way too mercurial to be president. do you believe that newt gingrich doesn't have the temperament to sit in the oval office? >> look, i sat in an oval office with a president that knew how to deal with those kinds of pressures and those kinds of things and understood that you speak in an analytical way.

you don't try and be a professor sitting at the front of the room. you try and deal with things after you've thought about them. you don't just shoot your mouth off. i think this tendency of even going after people who should be his closest colleagues, going after paul ryan on the paul ryan plan to cut the deficit and to deal with some of the entitlement problems. that's not constructive. that's not beneficial. that's not leadership. that's cutting your friends' legs off. >> well, the fact is that most of the people that you've heard from are a part of the romney rottweiler group that are the attack dogs that they have sent out. this is a strategy of the romney people to try to undermine newt gingrich. >> there's no truth -- >> tom coburn is not a romney supporter. come on. >> if i can be a little bit in on the argument here, the fact is there are a number of people

who are unhappy with newt from his congressional days because he was a very tough reformer who tramped on some toes along the way. so you've got people digging up things from 20 years past where they've had concerns about things that they thought hurt them. and so they're coming out and saying these kinds of things. there are a lot of us who worked very closely with newt gingrich who understand he was very disciplined and very focused. he was the one who developed the contract with america. it is the single most important conservative document both in terms of politics and governance in the last 20 years. he saw it through to completion. he in fact balanced the budget. he in fact helped to create the whole welfare reform. he in fact brought about economic growth that created 7 million jobs. that took focus and discipline and so on and i think he deserves credit for it. >> congressman bob walker, governor -- i'm sorry, i have to end it here. i hope both of you will come back and i look forward to seeing both of you in new hampshire. >> okay. coming up -- our political panel tells us who's up and

who's down after last night's debate. and later, big changes coming to the postal service. we'll ask the postmaster general about how it affects you. ♪ [ electronic beeping ] [ male announcer ] still getting dandruff? neutrogena® t/gel shampoo defeats dandruff after just one use. t/gel shampoo. it works. neutrogena®.

joining me now, anita dunn, who was the obama white house communications director, and tom davis, a former republican congressman. thank you both for being here. we calmed the set down now a little after the last two. but nonetheless, these were, i thought, revealing debates and i want to get your take, both of you, on who you think came out on top. >> well, the debate you just had between bob walker and john sununu? >> last night's debate between the candidates. >> i was going to say that that's worth watching. i think there is no doubt that last night you saw a revealing moment with mitt romney and it is the kind of moment that is important, despite what john sununu said. the reality is mitt romney's running ads in iowa talking about his character. so if you're going to talk about your character, then there's little windows into your character. the $10,000 bet? become important. >> those people can't have character? >> they can have character, but the question is sort of who are you and what are you for and who are you going to stand up for?

but i was watching the $10,000 bet moment last night, i was thinking about the great book by michael lewis, "liar's poker," and guys sitting around on wall street making these gigantic bets based on whether the number's on $1 bill. that's his background. that's not one of his former colleagues said recently, they didn't see their job as job creation. so i think all of those issues are coming into play now with mitt romney. >> we've had lots of rich presidents, shall we say. it is very hard not to get to a certain level, whether they tend to be highly educated, have great jobs before they came, et cetera, et cetera. do you think those little things matter? did mitt romney lose that debate on the basis of what appeared to be an off-handed "i'll bet you $10,000"? >> i think you'll see that again, in some ads, it will be talked about by the chattering class in terms of a window. but frankly, this is heating up. this is a race now. >> you could feel that last night. >> you could feel the tension, the game plan.

they've got to maybe go to plan b. >> what should plan b be for romney? >> first of all, iowa, they're not going to win iowa. secondly, new hampshire now they have gingrich ahead in some of the polls. this is the backstop for romney. he cannot afford to lose iowa and new hampshire going into south carolina and to florida. that all of a sudden knocks the whole game plan off as the front-runner, the bandwagon effect. so their backstop is new hampshire at this point, but iowa at this point, he hasn't played to date. he's just come in very late, romney has, and he may run third or fourth. >> let me play for you something -- super pac made this ad, put it up, brought it down, but nonetheless, this was a romney-supported super pac who put an ad up on the web. i want you to take a look at it. >> why is this man smiling? because his plan is working. brutally attack mitt romney and help newt gingrich as his opponent. why? newt has a ton of baggage. >> is that true? >> let me say, i think right now

whatever baggage newt has is baked into the cake in terms of at least republican primary voters. we have seen a narrowing in the gap between gingrich and the president in some of the head-to-head polls. the poll last week showed gingrich beating the president in ohio, so i wouldn't be too quick to jump on the bandwagon that somehow gingrich is going to be easy to beat. >> yet you all, meaning democrats, have really -- the re-elect campaign has really gone after romney a lot more so than newt. >> well, i think, candy, one of the reasons is because until quite recently, you know, you, along with everybody else, didn't really see gingrich as a player. but the reality is -- and the dnc released a web video on newt after the debate last night. the reality is that both of these candidates are offering the american people the same bad package. and i think you'll see a lot of that. for instance, you know, the attack from romney on gingrich on not standing firm with paul ryan -- and by the way, romney spent a lot of the summer, as you remember, trying to avoid having to say he supported paul

ryan and now he's going strong on that but both of them want to privatize medicare. >> right. but would you rather go up against newt gingrich? do you consider him the weaker candidate? >> whoever wins the republican nomination is going to be a candidate who has said that they want to privatize medicare, turn it into a voucher system. whoever wins the republican nomination will be a candidate who has said that they are opposed -- given whatever day of the week it is -- to a payroll tax cut for regular, average americans but they want to protect low tax rates for the wealthiest. whoever -- >> congressman, that's been cooked into the cake on both of them and they're running pretty even -- >> candy, let me make this point. at the end of the day, it is about results. if the administration doesn't get better results on the economy at this point, you're going to have competing visions. the public don't know what policy it wants, they just know when things aren't working well. >> let me take a quick break. when we come back, congress is deadlocked again. this time over extending a tax cut.

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we are back with our political panel, tom davis, anita dunn.

the president gave an interview to "60 minutes" that's airing tonight. he was talking about the economic recovery and had this to say. >> it is going to take more than a year. it is going to take more than two years. it is going to take more than one term. probably takes more than one president. >> may i add to that that a news cbs poll shows only 41% of the electorate thinks president obama deserves to be re-elected. saying, listen, this economic recovery may take more than one president is not a great place to be starting a re-elect campaign. is it? >> candy, this week the president traveled to kansas where 100 years ago teddy roosevelt gave an extraordinarily speech about what makes this economy great and how do you build an economy that's going to last. and the president spoke about his belief that at the end of the day a vibrant middle class, helping the middle class, is how you get to that strong economy. and that is how -- >> he thinks it is going to take another four years and another president to get there?

>> we didn't get into this problem overnight. the american people understand it was years and years of policies that let the wealthiest write their own rules, let wall street do whatever they wanted, and that it was years of policies. >> 41% of americans think he shouldn't be re-elected. >> this is 29 years of politics talking. voters are not policy wants. they want results. if you say i can't solve it here, i need another term or another president, it is not a good place to be starting off. >> candy, 29 years in electoral politics? people see elections as choices. the choice that's being set up if you watched the republican debate last night, two hours of candidates who have no plans to create jobs, candidates who have no plans to help the middle class, and whose political party in congress has been actively fighting against things that the american people think are commonsense things that should be done. >> why don't we just say the republicans disagree that they don't have any plans to create jobs? because i want to move you on to congress and the payroll tax. can we all agree that there is no way that congress is going to

leave for christmas on the eve of an election year and say to the middle class, by the way, that break you've been getting on your social security payroll tax no longer exists, your taxes are going up, average, about $1,000. that's not going to happen, is it? >> candy, i actually can't speak for what republicans in congress will do. they were willing to let this country default on its obligations in august. who knows whether they'll decide to raise taxes on the middle class. okay? >> both of those leaderships say -- >> leaderships say that but we haven't seen all of the rank and file republican members of congress in the house say this is something that should be extended. >> they've already passed one version. they're going to pass another version. they're going to have to attach some other things to make it attra attractive. this drives up the deficit. it will be a temporary fix for one year, now they are extending it for another. unemployment insurance is a part of that, the doc fix. i think they'll get a package, but you want to offset the cost of this, and the real issue is how are you going to offset.

>> how are you going to pay for it. >> how are you going to pay for it. those are important issues because the deficit keeps going up and up and up and it jeopardizes america's future. thoo. >> thank you both very much. after the break, the wait prescriptions from your local mailman could get longer. still ? neutrogena® t/gel shampoo defeats dandruff after just one use. t/gel shampoo. it works. neutrogena®.

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next year, first-class mail will be more expensive and slower. that is not by any definition progress, but it is survival for the u.s. postal service, which has to cut costs by $20 billion in the next three years to become profitable. the postmaster general says that means shutting down half of the mail processing centers across the country as early as this spring, thus lengthening delivery time. parts of the overall plan need congressional approval, which may be a problem. >> this guy, this so-called postmaster general, should be fired because of a lack of any imagination or initiative.

he's proposing the death nail for the great united states postal service. 100,000 people laid off. whoa, that's just what we need in america today. let's lay off 100,000 people. great idea. >> 18 senate democrats sent a letter to congressional leaders urging them to delay the postal plan, but it may be too late. up next -- the postmaster general, patrick donahoe. ncer ] you never know when a moment might turn into something more. and when it does men with erectile dysfunction can be more confident in their ability to be ready with cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day, so you can be ready anytime the moment's right. ♪ [ man ] tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. [ man ] do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach,

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airfare credit, plus save up to 65%. call 1-800-sandals. certain restrictions apply. joining me to talk about the future of the u.s. postal service is postmaster general and ceo patrick donahue. thank you so much for joining us, especially since you are not entirely a popular man on capitol hill these days. >> thank you for the invitation. >> let me play for you something that senator bernie sanders also said when he looked at this plan to try to make the post office a little more profitable. actually, this is from a quote from the hill in which he said, "if the post office starts making these drastic cuts which will lay off workers, slow down mail delivery, cut back on rural postal services and saturday deliveries, they're going to give us a fait accompli. they will have made major irreparable decisions before congress has time to act." so you are absolutely set on closing half of your

distribution centers. >> here's the situation. the postal service is very important for the american economy and american society. and we take no taxpayer money. so what's happened over the course of the last four or five years, we've lost about 25% of our volume. the economy -- >> e-mail -- >> e-mail, people paying bills online. and that's natural. we know that. so what we need to do, like any other responsible business, is to cut costs in order to get our finances back in order. >> but aren't you making the very thing that, you know, helps you is speedy delivery of first class mail. you're slowing it down. don't you just drive people that are using the post office to the internet now to pay their bills, to get their news magazine off the internet? don't you just -- aren't you just guaranteeing that this is the famous final scene for the post office down the line? >> many people are making choices to move there anyway. what we know from what the future of the postal service will look like, we'll be

delivering business first class, advertising mail and packages. there is nothing in our plan at all that would have any slowdowns there. as a matter of fact, we're working to speed the package delivery up. first-class mail, commercial mailers will be able to enter mail into our facilities that are remaining and get overnight service into a larger area of territory. >> are you not -- in larger areas of territory, some of these cuts will harm the rural areas and will be in places where people might not have these -- in some instances, poorer areas who may not have access to the internet, whose only real way of getting things is the u.s. postal service. >> we don't have any plans on doing anything differently in the rural areas than we do in the city areas. one of the things we are proposing besides the consolidations as part of our $20 billion plan is to move from six-day to five-day delivery. post offices will remain open, though. so access to rural communities is still there. >> but lines are getting longer. it's getting more expensive.

it's getting slower. this is not a business plan for the future, it doesn't seem, to a lot of people. it seems as though you are putting yourself out of business. >> what we're looking at from an access standpoint when you talk about lines, we are making a lot of changes there. 37% of americans today buy postage and mail packages outside the post office on the internet, at stores. we're trying to go from an access and retail standpoint where americans go. you'll see us a lot more at shopping centers, at pharmacies, online, so it's more convenient. and we will eventually shrink down some of our footprint out there. >> why don't you -- what would you have to raise the price of a first-cent stamp be in order to deal with this huge deficit? >> here's the thing. if we wanted to not have -- not have to change deliveries on saturday, keep six-day going, we'd have to raise prices across the board 6.8%. that's a big increase.

now, if we wanted to maintain the number of processing facilities out there, a first-class stamp would cost about 57 cents. it's 44 today, we're moving it up to 45 cents. the key thing is this -- we are facing this year, if we didn't get action to delay the payment we've got, we would have had a $10 billion loss. we have to reduce costs in this organization by $20 billion, and that's what we're proposing to do. >> i need a one-word answer. how many workers will get laid off as a result of these closings? not attrition. how many people actively will be told, "i know you want a job but you don't have one"? >> it's our goal to have zero. we've reduced the organization head count by 250,000. never laid anybody off. i'm proud of that. we have 155,000 people that can retire. we want to try and move in that direction. >> postmaster general, thank you very much for coming by. >> thank you. up next, our "sounds of sunday," highlights from the other sunday morning talk shows. neutrogena® t/gel shampoo defeats dandruff after just one use.

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time for today's "sound of sunday." it's more like when and how congress will extend the cut in your social security taxes. enjoy it now because the top republican in the senate says 2013 is another matter.

>> i believe that we should extend the payroll tax holiday another year, avoid a tax increase on working people for another year. i also agree with senator reed, my counterpart, that we ought not to do it again next year. >> the number-two senate democrat, dick durbin, says it's the highest priority for the president and democrats to get that tax cut passed this year. senator lindsey graham, who helped plot the failed coup attempt to oust newt gingrich as speaker in 1997, is not exactly a supporter in 2011. still, gingrich has a healthy lead among republicans in south carolina. after a friendly phone call from newt last week, graham is not the newt critic he once was. >> i think if the election were held tomorrow he'd win south carolina, and i saw bits and pieces of the debate. it's clear to me that newt gingrich has established himself as the republican front-runner. he's been out of government for a long time. he's a matured himself as a person, reattached himself to

his faith. we had a good conversation about energy policy, talked about the past. you know, the coup started in my office, so obviously the guy doesn't hold grudges. >> 22 more shopping days until the iowa caucuses, but the state's most prominent conservative republican, congressman steve king, still hasn't selected a candidate. >> i'll just be, you know, straight honest with you on what's going on inside of me, and that is i have to come to a conviction, just like these candidates come to a conviction for president. i need to come to a conviction to get fully behind a single candidate. and so that's what's holding me back. i hope to get there. >> absent from the debate stage last night in iowa, jon huntsman, who has pretty much taken up residence in new hampshire, a strategy he says is working. >> we are doing better in new hampshire than half the people on that stage last night when you look at the recent polls. we are going nowhere but up. we started as a margin of error candidate. i'm no longer a margin of error candidate because our messages

are working. >> new hampshire, of course, one week after the iowa caucuses. and now a quick check of the top headlines. an opposition group in syria says that 18 people have been killed during protests across the country, including two children. cnn cannot independently confirm these figures. meanwhi meanwhile, a monday night deadline looms for demonstrators to hand in weapons or face bombardment by the syrian government. a 6.5-magnitude earthquake rattled southern mexico last night, killing two people. the quake was felt 100 miles away in mexico city where the mayor says there are blackouts but no major damage. the head of u.s. special forces in afghanistan has endorsed a plan to trip it will number of unarmed afghans to paid by nato to protect local villages. admiral william mcraven said the proposal, described as a community watch with ak-47s, could go into effect over the next two years. iran says it will not return

an alleged u.s. drone that it claims to have brought down. american officials have not confirmed that the stealth plane, shown in a video released by iran this week, is actually a u.s. aircraft. but a pentagon spokesman says that a missing american drone has not yet been recovered. former dictator manuel noriega is on his way to panama for more jail time and another trial. noriega's return to his native country comes after more than 20 years in u.s. and french prisons for drug trafficking and money laundering. panama convicted him during his captivity overseas for the slayings of two political opponents in the 1980s. those are your top stories. we now want to end where we began, with presidential candidate rick santorum. a conversation with him from a slightly different angle. a friend from your high school says your nickname was rooster. >> yeah, yeah, it was. >> because? >> it was when i was -- i was playing basketball in eighth