>> the "washington post" reports that the first lady has not appeared on a sit com since nancy reagan on "different strokes" 29 years ago, kate. >> well, good timing. that is not easy if you have never -- well, she is on camera quite a bit, but she did a pr pretty good job. >> nice to see she is having some fun there, and those kids can't vote i don't think, but maybe some of them can. we will stop to see if michelle obama has a second career. kate, that is afor us tonight. we will see you tomorrow from charleston, south carolina. and right now, erin burnett "outfront" taking it away. well sh, the shutdown of wikipedia on at midnight. the site goes dark. jimmy wales exclusive. and under pressure to reveal

his tax rate, mitt romney reveals his tax rate. fair or unfair? and fact or not? are the congress members back in session refresh and ready to change the world -- or not? let's go "outfront." well, good ooevening, everyone. i'm erin burnett and "outfront" tonight, and welcome back, congress. we missed you. we really did. after -- well, that may have been a bizarre and appropriate slip of the tongue. but members are back in the house today to make up for frankly an abysmal 2011. the track record. full of failures. they didn't raise the debt ceiling which caused america's credit rating to be cut which hurts all of us. and they didn't agree on a budg budget. and they didn't have a super committee deal.

and no tax cuts. so it is no surprise that the cnn poll shows that 11% of americans approve of the way that congress is handling the job. that is an all-time low. more people approved of how bp handled the gulf coast oil spill. while members were off, some took trips abroad. majority leader eric cantor led a delegation to the middle east and france. both delegations of both parties went to west africa and india and the philippines, but all of this could be something that americans could deal with if next session was productive. certainly not like 2011. right now, real challenges. the battles ahead are eerily similar to last year. and the debt ceiling limit expires on the 29th. and our super committee hopes reside on you. and bush tax cuts expiring in 2013, in january, and we have to

figure that out by the end of the year. major challenges, but we are hopeful. we have had divided governments in the past and everyone says it is not worse, but they fixed it and got better and that is the american can-do way. all right. we want congress the feel the heat, but see the light. let's make them work. we are joined by congressman sewell from new york, and congresswoman grimm. i am glad you are smiling after the intro, but you are sitting here a democrat and a republican, and are you going the work together? >> i think that one thing i have learned as a freshman is that it is important to collaborate. collaboration is important. i have hope because in alabama my delegation had to come together after the april tornadoes. republicans and democrats, in order to provide for disaster assistance for the constituents so with that hope springs eternal. >> i can tell you that i am standing next to one of my

favorite freshmen colleagues regardless of the side of the aisle. she is great, and we have had many conversations on the floor and it is the process that needs to happen. we are a polarized nation right now and nobody can deny it, by it is our job to get it back together, and i know i am willing to do it, and my colleague is. this is a new year and opportunity to overcome the challenges and put the country first and i'm excited to get to work. >> i am, too. >> okay. let's keep that sound bite, because it sounds happy and i'm elat elated. congressman, last week your president came out and said i want to get rid of six agencies and made them one, and some people in your party said we want to do more than that, and so we won't give you that. we won't give you anything. that really came ouf ff as more the same and bad spirited. what are you going the do about that? >> well, first of all, the part of the frustration on the republican side is that we've put a lot of the initiatives on

the table already and if you look at the bills that have passed the house already there are duplicative things that we should have consolidated going back to the last year, and it is frustrating feeling that the president is taking some of the initiatives and dusting them off and saying they are his own and we are supposed to support it, but why didn't we support it all year long? it is frustration, but at the end of the day, we will get it done. >> you will get it done. let me ask you about the debt ceiling issue, congressman gram, you again. you have to cast a vote disapproving in your case? >> yes. >> why is that? why not say, we all know that we have to do this? that could be a good way to make a goodwill gesture? >> well, i think that because the negotiations up to this point have not been completely in goodwill. i think that most of the republicans and a lot of my

colleagues on the other side realize that we are facing an out-of-control debt crisis, and we have not been able to get it under skcontrol. we have not put together a plan that the rest of the world deems credible as well as the united states. >> well, i agree, they are playing political games and we have to raise the debt ceiling, because america pays the bills and i know that and you know that and having a resolution on the floor just to vote no about raising the debt ceiling when you know that we have to work together to do so is brinkmanship. >> i respect that opinion, i really do, but at the same time america pays the bills, but america has been living way above its means for so long that if we continue on that, we are three years away from italy. we know what is happening in europe, and what is going to happen there. >> and how about that representative grimm, the debt problem awareness is a credit,

but -- >> why aren't we dealing with it? this is another step to say, we have been fighting all year long to control the debt and put a plan in place to deal with it, but we have yet to do it. so it is not ceremonial, but a reminder to america and the president that we are living above our means and we are spending money that we don't have and borrowing from nations like china and putting ourselves in a debt crisis that we may not get out of. we have to continue to ring the bell, and have america get a handle on it. >> and the super committee was charged with doing that and failed. what will each of you agree to that might upset your party that you would agree to that might help that problem. we agree there is a problem? >> if you want, i will take it first. we can join a group go big which is bi-cameral and work on procedural to do something tangible and the world says it makes sense, whether it is $4 tr

trillion or $5 trillion and what i promise and i will promise my colleague on tv is that anything you put on the table i agree not the de t to demonnize or shootdown. i want to listen to each other, and we need to do it in parties an conferences to not demonnize each other's ideas and work together even if we disagree. >> i agree with you. listen, i agree that we agree on this issue which is collaboration and working together for a common cause. i think that for me i have joined a bipartisan caucus as well, the common cause which is a group of freshmen both republican and democrat and we are committed to working t ing together to solve some of the biggest problems and i look forward to working with you, michael, and we will get this worked out. >> if there were more members like this, we'd have it figured

out. >> what are you getting married? you are wearing the same outfits, and -- >> i asked, but she said no. >> my mom is watching. >> thanks to both of you. we appreciate it and we will hold you to it and have you back. >> thank you. >> thank you. and democrats and republicans have gathered a recall for governor walker. the end of his days? and now iran says they are give back the secret drone, sort of. really, i have the drone. really. and we have obtained the tapes of the downed cruise ship in italy and they indicate that the port authority had to yell at the ship's captain. man: my eltrill s king ban this team of guinea pigs to ty bo so to save some y, d inea pig: row...row. they genatectry, wch le me rf t.

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protesters of unions shutting down the legislature for weeks last year. in the end, the republican bill to cut union worker es rights passed. democrats are still angry, and they are not going quietly. we asked the man leading the charge to get rid of governor walker, and wisconsin democratic party chairman mike tate whether it was worth the $9 million taxpayer money to have a recall election right now, and this is what he told me. >> it is a irregular step to go outside of the political process, but it is necessary in this case, and 1 million of my fellow wisconsinites agree with mement when governor walker ran for office he did not talk about how he would govern or taking the collective bargaining rites away from the public employees or talk about the largest cut to public education in the country or talk about defunding the university of wisconsin system and many other things. while it is going to cost a little bit of money to have the elections, it is the best down payment we can make on the

state's future and the future of the families. >> so, are recalls the best way to hold elected officials accountable and worth the people's time and money that you are running for election all of the time? it already feels that i wa. "outfront" now, the author of "grand new party" and also, the deputy communications director for president obama. good to have both of you with us. good to see you, jen. and rihan, only two governors have been successfully recalled, so is this a good example of the people's process, and they got the signatures and is this how the system should work? >> well, it reflects the depth of the frustration and how the ideological divides are shaping the electorate. last time it happened in california it was a democratic governor recalled and this time it is a republican governor recalled and my fear is to see it a back and forth and again and again and a tit-for-tat, and

i think that the underlying issues are much more scrambled than people understand. >> jen, what is your point of view, because the people recalling him say he didn't say he would do all of these things, but a loft opeopt of people are to office including presidents who come in and don't do what they say they are going d and they do it, and is this enough of a ground to have is a recall? >> well, erin, recalls are rare and there is a high bar to jump over to recall someone, but this is more than a million people who have signed petitions in wisconsin. that is 25% of the people who are eligible to vote in the state who are so dissatisfy and so unhappy with the governor, they have right through the democratic process, and the process allowed by law to take action. so i don't think that this is the start of a trend, but i think that it is more of a case where people in the state are so dissatisfied with the governor's attack on worker's rights and they are taking action. >> i think that it is absolutely

the start of the trend. the last time of the recall, arnold schwarzenegger came into office and tried to curb the power of the labor unions and he then lost, because these folks have extraordinary resources at their disposal and they spent $25 million to go against a group of senators, but much more th time, because they are saying that dues are no longer mandatory, and you should be able to choose whether you want to pour your salary into what are essentially political campaigns and they know that if you drain that money away, they will not choose who their bosses are. choosing your bosses is a great way of seeing to it that you're constantly getting paid more regardless of the productivity. walker is not the best messenger, but this is fundamentally a purple proposal and not red proposal, because it gave the republican and the democratic mayors to come to common sense bargains with

public workers in the state. >> even chris christie who has had tussles vocally and in the midst of them with new jersey said that governor walker did not go about this politically the best way. >> here is what i know about governor walker, today, nearly 1 million people, and the petitions are turned in and nearly 1 million people signed to oust the governor and he is in new york doing a fund raiser with the former ceo of aig so it is clear that he is disconnected with the challenges of the workers and the families in his state, but at the same time, budget cutting has become an attack, and a weapon by the republicans across the board and not just governor walker, but you know, you look at the cut, cap, balance which is something that the republican candidates including mitt romney and others in congress have touted. there are concerning issues that i think that people are going to take a closer look at over the next couple of months. >> but they have state jobs though, and that is a national thing that there is improvement there, but they have, jen?

>> wisconsin -- sorry? >> wisconsin among others? >> well, that is true, but at the same time, people are concerned, also, about making sure they have the rights. making sure they have the, you know, the ability to stand up for their workers in the state, and workers, you know, ak cro a the country and this is an example of someone overreached and trying to cut down on the rights of workers, and people will take a close look at this. >> and this is straight forward, illinois is right next door to wisconsin and it is a state where they tried to balance budgets and a state where they laid off huge public workers where wisconsin said a common sense agreement on the labor agreements on health care costs, et cetera, and they fired way fewer workers and better for the public workers who wanted to keep the jobs in wisconsin than illinois. so if you want to go illinois down the road and see services deteriorating go that route. if you want a situation where the democratic and the

republican mayors can come to common sense agreements that is what walker's proposal did. >> two different world views and thank you both for coming on to share. >> all of you, let us know what you think on twitter. >> thank you very much. security today is tighter in teheran. the country taking quote remarkable measures to protect the nuclear scientists after last week's murder of a leading scientist. now we are not sure exactly what that entails for security, but the government is has arrested several suspects linked to the assassination. we are trying to find out if the arrested were iranian or american or other nationalitien, because iran is keeping the nationalities secret and they are blaming the united states and israel for the murder. we asked cia security expert about it.

>> we have asked the iranians to identify either agents of israel or another foreign power such as saudi arabia if they can produce any kind of evidence that connects them with a foreign power, we could be looking at a major international incident, so this is something that we need to watch. also, today, egypt sent a nation to the united nations signed by 140 countries, including china, saying that they quote condemn america for violating iran air space with the sentinel drone. now, iran has the top secret drone and you see it there on display and there is a big development on the return of the drone. remember president obama saying this -- >> with respect to the drone, inside of iran, i'm not going to comment on intelligence matters that are classified. as have already been indicated, we have asked for it back.

we will see how the iranians respond. >> all right. well, iran responded today and saying it is sending a toy replica of the drone, yep, and they are going to inscribe on the belly, here on the star wars here, and we will tramp the u.s. they offered to send it to the united states in pink. yeah. presidential candidate mitt romney, a multimillionaire pays a lower tax rate than you. we will talk about that. and the government says that america is overrun by giant snakes and planning to do a number of things about it. and which of these beers comes from america's largest brewery. place your bet on facebook or twitter, and yes, these beers are chilled and ready for the staff to drink after the show. the answer up next. helps defend against digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. hit me! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'.

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five, four, three, two, one -- this is prohibition! >> this is a raid. >> open it up.

so the u.s. fish and wildlife service announced today that it is banning the import and interstate transport of four non-native constrictor snakes. the decision that takes -- oh, ah. the decision takes place in two months. the burmese python and the yellow anaconda, and the northern and southern africa pythons and injurious wildlife has threatened the everglades and other species like wood rats

and wood storks. according to the fish and wildlife services quote, burmese pythons have already caused substantial harm in florida. by taking this action today, we will help prevent further harm from these large constrictor snakes to native wildlife. that brings us to the number, $100 million which is the amount of money that the department of interior spends every single year to control pythons and other invasive species. the figure includes the hiring of adorable snake-sniffing dogs like thomas. we met thomas. he is supposed to find and eradicate pythons and other constrictor snakes. we met the dogs and visited the homeland security training center, and because pythons can devour animals such as a 60-pound deer, this has to be the worst job ever for dogs that weigh 20-25 pounds.

still "outfront" -- the outfront five -- >> abandoned ship. >> this bill is badly written and it will damage the internet. >> all of this is "outfront" in the second halfment there is a platform built for the purpose of driving innovation. one that's transforming how companies from every industry-- and of every size-- are doing business. a platform built for now.

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we start the second half of our show with stories that we focus on our own reporting and

do the work and find the "outfront" five. welcome back, congress. the house is back in session after a month-long break. hopefully rested and ready to make up for 2011. unfortunately for us the battles ahead are not different from last year. the first fight will be raising the debt ceiling limit, starting tomorrow, coming to a place near you. and then the payroll tax cut that expires next month, and remember the two-month deal. and the super committee, we hold out hope for that. and the bush tax cuts will expire at the end of the year, and that is going to be one hell of a ticket. and two congressmen came out tonight who promised they would not fight each other, and we will be watching. number two, a convicted murder pardoned by mississippi governor haley barbour and refusing to cooperate. that is what jim hood told cnn. joe osmond was freed a week ago but they said that he and four others shouldn't have been

released. everyone buzz ozment has contacted the state. he was convicted to prison for murdering a clerk. >> and number three, the yuengling, and the beer sales -- and somebody stole it. is it open over there? and it passed boston beer sam adams the boston-based beer maker since 1911. and also, anheuser-busch, and miller and corazon by a canadian conglomerate and none of them are truly american beers anymore. who has it? and also 40% of the cuts of the layoffs for kraft are coming from the sales units. that is after ritz ra crackers

and post decided to split into snack foods and breakfast foods. the president said that making these choices ist never easy. our plan for a more nimble company combined with the current economic and competitive pressures, led us to this point. well, it has been 180 days since america lost the aaa credit union. we were fold that we are down 11% from a year ago. mitt romney is under intense pressure to release his tax returns, and today, he showed us a little leg. >> what is the effective rate i am paying? closer to the 15% rate than anything, because the last ten years, i have -- my income comes overwhelmingly from investments made in the past rather than earned annual income. i get a little bit of income from my book, but i gave all of that away.

and then i get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much. >> all right. the comment got a lot of reaction and mostly from the people who thought it was unfair they were paying a higher rate than mitt romney. so we went to look at the numbers and found out something surprising. thanks to the nonpartisan tax foundation, we learned that there are 138 million tax returns in 2009 and the latest year available. 75% of the taxpayers paid a rate lower than mitt romney and 25% paid more. back to two of our favorite people to tell us what they think. david from and john avalon. >> and the win over the segment? >> a cold one. >> so he showed the leg and said he would release the tax returns in april though? >> right, in april when the primaries will be over and now we know why he is resistant to turn over the tax returns, because this is what makes

people so angry, because we are talking about overturning the bu bush tax cuts. and now we want to know why he does not support the buffett rule, and what we are learning which is an election liability, he is not paying the topper c t percentage, but 25%. >> they are in the active workforce earning income. if you are earnbing income, you pay income tax rates. mitt romney is retired from the earning income part of his life. he draws his money from the inv investments and there is a strong case for capital tax rate than earned income rate. we have a market control of assets whether it is land or corporate governance and we want to make sure that the transactions happen as seamlessly as possible. if you own a piece of land and

somebody has a better idea of what to do with it, we don't want to make a 50% barrier of flipping over the piece of property from the lower-valued user to the higher-valued owner. >> like someone selling their home. >> we want to make it seamless and quick and we don't want artificial barriers in the way and that is why we have low capital gains taxes. >> and interesting that people benefit from one shape or fashion, and homeowners and capital losses for a while, but older americans who have a lot of dividend income and pay a much lower rate, and if you change the rate, you are hurting those people, too? >> yes, and the rate should be low on widows and orphan stocks, but this is different here. it is not barriers to sell property, but someone living off of smart investments and good for him, but therefore paying a lower rate -- >> you are even to the left of the president on this one.

he is not trying to get the rate up here. >> we should have a flatter and fairer tax code with fewer loopholes. this is the middle-class squeeze that people are feel where there is a distinction between the super rich, living off of 15%, and the middle-working class that is working everyday and feeling squeezed. >> fair point. >> understand the abuse is. theoretically, you want the capital gains as low as possible. the thing that is making people upset is that we have not had a lot of capital gains in the american economy in the last ten years. consult the standard and poor's, because land prices are not up, and this is what enraging people and valid complaint, that people investing not their own money, but other people's mo thee who have persuaded congress to treat them what is looking like income as capital gain. if your own money is not at risk -- >> this is something that mitt romney in the past would have benefitted from as a partner of

bane capita bain capital. >> well, if he is with shares on the ground and active investor, then for economic reasons you want a lower capital gains tax. >> and this is something that he has said in the past, lower taxes create jobs, because that is not true. he has not created jobs and he is paying on a low rate based on previous investments. so that is when you start to push the issues to the front. >> and we won't know that until the elections. >> and that is because he is not going to release them until the election is over. >> hit pause. the wrecked cruise ship captain tape, and we will play that for you. and also, the older brother of kim jong-il speaking out tonight, kim jong-un, and we will hear that. and tonight, the co-founder

of wikipedia is exclusively "outfront."

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we do this at the same time every night, the outer circle to reach out to the source around the world. tonight we begin in north korea. kim jong-il's oldest son predicting that the regime led by his half brother kim jong-un who was passed over of the exclusive estate when he enraged the father over a decade of ago trying to sneak into japan to visit disneyland.

he has been living in exile. he says that the brother is too young and not groomed for the position. we asked him what has given him the confidence to talk right now? >> the biggest mystery about north korea is the how kim jong-un could walk around without a body guard and make the subversive statements, and i think it is because beijing was protecting him. they wanted to use him as a puppet if circumstances warranted it. and now the afghanistan. the u.s. is inching closer to the peace talks with the taliban. a representative for afghanistan and pakistan mark grossman is in the region to work out details. he is working the secret taliban negotiators for more than a year and this is on the heels of the taliban's announcement it plans to open up a political office in the gulf state of qatar.

we asked what they are negotiating to get this done? >> this is preliminary talks so far between the u.s. officials and the taliban representatives. everybody agreeing at this point that they have to get the afghan government onside to come along with the process. that is what the u.s. officials have to do in kabul to convince president karzai that he needs to be a part. >> and meanwhile, the cruise ship, the costa concordia is off of the gulf port today. the ship's captain is under fire for abandoning ship before passengers, including children and disabled, were evacuated. listen to the coast guard ordering him to get back on the ship.

[ speaking foreign language ] schettino could face manslaughter charges and 15 years in prison. a judge placed him under house arrest while they consider the

charge charges. and divers struggle to move through a labyrinth of debris and furniture, and we are joined by a couple who were fortunate to escape. they arrived in albany, new york, this morning. thank you for being with us, and appreciate your time, and i want to hear your reaction, because you can hear the angry and the frustration of the port authority officer telling the captain, christ, it is your job to be there, and him fighting back. what is your reaction hearing that given that you were there that day? >> well -- >> it is -- it's incredible to believe that the man just left the ship, and with everything that was going on, people dying, and people panicking, with no direction from anywhere, and he just up and left the ship. it is just incomprehensible. >> it is hard to maintain a chain of command when the top

man leaves the boat. >> let me ask you, brian, what happened to you. you know, you were -- you got on the deck as you ran out of dinner. and you were trying to get life jackets. what happened and how did other people trying to escape treat you? it seemed like a darwinian moment. >> well, when we first got up on the deck for whethe lifeboats w first priority was to find a life jacket. i went to the first few lockers along the gunnell, and there were no life jackets in them at all. finally the third or the fourth locker, therer were three in the bottom of it, and i dove in it. absolutely dove in it. took them out and started fighting my way through the crowd back to joan and alanna. people were just grabbing at the life jackets trying to pull them out of my hands. luckily i was holding them like a football that they could not get them away.

i got them to joan, and first to alanna and then one to joan, and then a woman tried to pull the life jacket away from joan and actually tore it in half. so i gave her mine, and then i don't even remember where i found another one. and so we all three had the equipment we needed. >> joan, what was your memory of exactly what happened at that time and were there moments of heroism from other passengers or really just a panic and some horrible moments like people trying to grab your life jacket off your body? >> well, there was panic. every time the lights went out, people would start screaming and there was utter chaos. as far as heroism, i have to commend my daughter. she saw one little girl with a life vest that was literally as big as she, and alanna who had a

smaller life vest, you know, took hers and gave it to the little girl so she would have something more suitable for herself. she was helping the children, and there were children there being squashed just by the pressings of the crowds. she was really trying to help the children. some people really tried to get control of the crowds. just trying the get silence so people would listen to the announceme announcements, and to stop pushing and every now and then people would catch their breath and settle down a little bit, but if there was another jerking of the ship the panic would start all over again. >> brian, if you could talk to the captain schettino, what would you say to him? >> well, that is a tough one. i think that i have to let the courts and take care of that.

it -- he'd have to realize how angry the whole world probably is at him at this point, and certainly, he's ruined the reputation of the professional captains around the world, and he certainly hasn't helped the costa are back home safe and at home and your daughter as well. we appreciate you coming on tonight. i know anderson cooper has a lot more on the cruise ship crisis in italy. what do you have tonight? >> we're following that story closely. it's just stunning. we will have more on the disaster and the newly released audiotapes really tell the story of what happened, the captain abandoning ships, according to the transcripts before the passengers were off. we will take you under water with a real life rescuer to see

how dangerous the conditions are the crews in italy are searching now trying to find bodies and hopefully somebody trapped in the ship. and we talked to several on the candidates last night, some from fuzzy math to scuffle over food stamps. we'll take a look at the most important moments of the debate and where the candidates stand and theory dick -- and the the riduculist. something about brad pitt. >> we were talking about piracy and wikipedia blacking out and goinging away. the cofounder, jimmy wales, in "out front." o0 c1 2 o0 [ beep ]

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today, i was on youtube and typed in the phrase "barbie g l girl" as is i'm a barbie girl. i was going to play it. and off with the band when i downloaded it and we taped this and i was paying it and danced and all that but will, our executive producer was worried we would get sued so we're not playing it. the point is, if you know the song, the giant passion inflaming millions, including the co-founder of wikipedia. if you go there tonight, it will

be dark, you can't go there. it is shutting down in protest of the stop piracy act or sopa. we were one of the few to report on it. since then it's blown up with facebook, yahoo, google, and others supportering throwing their muscle behind it including this network, timewarner which owns hbo. it's to crack down on copyright infringement to keep people like me downloading songs and obtained without permission and critics say it's unreasonable and will cost a lot of money. earlier, i spoke to the man at the center of this entire story, co-founder wikipedia, jimmy wales. he spoke to me from switzerland and we talked to him about stealing songs by aqua and barbie girl and why he's so

passionate about this issue. >> for us, the openness of the internet and freedom of speech issues are paramount. one of the things we do know is in the u.s. we have a perfectly reasonable and workable regime for dealing with copy right violations. if the group, aqua, wants to have that song removed from youtube, they just notify youtube and youtube has the responsibility to take it down. that's not really the issue here. the issue is things like dns blocking, blocking overseas sight that have infringement content, placing all kinds of burdens on community generated sites like wikipedia to police what our users are doing in an unreasonable way. i'm a big believer we should be dealing with issuespiracy and in a serious way but this is not the right bill. >> it appears to be a fair point, how are you supposed to police everything in a site created by millions and millions

of people around the world. there's a website we found, called pirate bay, really exists for the purpose of sharing content it doesn't own, pirated content. they have a lot of popular shows available. "glee," "deadliest catch" and others. do you support sites like that or do you feel that's a problem that needs to be fixed? >> for me, that site is a problem. the right way to fix it is not to place sensor ship on the internet, not force google to stop listing them or force wikipedia stop talking about them. the right answer is follow the money. if you have large scale piracy going on, it's this same as any other trade dispute and i think that's the right approach. >> give an example how this would restrict free speech on something like wikipedia, if this act passes. >> there's a lot of different versions in the act. in the worst versions of the bill, wikipedia would be defined

an as search engine and not able to link to something like the pirate bay even in our encyclopedic description of what pirate bay is. that's a real problem and raises serious first amendment issues. >> rupert murdoch, obviously news corp. and on the side of people that like this act because they make a lot of content. here's what he said. he was angry at president obama jumping on your side of this. obama has thrown in his lot with silicon valley pay masters who threaten all software creators with piracy plain thievery. why is he so wrong? >> it's such a ludicrous statement, i don't even know where to begin. certainly for wikipedia, we're not anybody's pay masters. we're a charity devoted to sharing free knowledge or community that's come together to build an encyclopedia and give it for free to everyone. we have no positive interest of encouraging piracy or