will be giving away passafree copies of the alcoholism & addiction cure. to get yours, go to ssagesmalibubook.com. we ran out of time for the riduculist. we went long on the conversations. thanks for watching. erin burnett outfront starts now. >> the countdown to the wikipedia blackout at midnight. jimmy whales exclusive out front tonight. and under pressure to release his tax returns,imate romney backs down and reveals his tax rate. fair or unfair? >> and the bottom line of congress. back after a month-long vacation. are they refreshed, ready to go, make a dinchlsh, change the

world. let's go outfront. well, good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett and "outfront" tonight, and welcome back, congress. we missed you. we really did. after four weeks away from washington, the house is returning to work today, hopefully rested and ready to make up for an abysmal 2011. the track record. full of failures. they didn't raise the debt ceiling which caused america's credit rating to be cut which hurts all of us. and they didn't agree on a budget. causing several near shutdowns. committee deal. and no tax cuts. so it is no surprise that the newest cnn poll shows only 11% of americans approve the way congress is handling it job. that's an all-tie low. more people approved of how bp handled the gulf coast oil spill.

in the month that congress has been off, some members have taken tax funded trips abroad. john boehner went to mexico and canada. majority leader eric cantor led a delegation to the middle east and france. both delegations of both parties went to west africa and india and the philippines, but all of this could be something that americans could deal with if next session was productive. certainly not like 2011. right now, real challenges. the battles ahead seem eerily similar to last year. first up, raising the debt ceiling limit, paying for the tax roll tax, which expires on the 29th. and our super committee hopes reside on you. and bush tax cuts expiring in 2013, in january, and we have to figure that out by the end of the year. major challenges, but we are hopeful. we have had divided governments in the past and everyone says it it's never been worse, but they fixed it, and got better, and hat is the american can-do way.

all right. we want congress the feel the heat, but see the light. let's make them work. we are joined by congressman sewell from new york, and congresswoman grimm. i am glad you are smiling after the intro, but you know it is what it is. you're sitting here, a democrat and a republican, are you going to work together? >> i think that one thing i have learned as a freshman is that it is important to collaborate. collaboration is important. i have hope because in alabama my delegation had to come together after the april tornadoes. republicans and democrats, in order to provide for disaster assistance for the constituents so with that hope springs eternal. >> i can tell you that i am standing next to one of my favorite freshmen colleagues regardless of the side of the aisle. i may be standing on at the time, she's great. we have had many conversations on the floor, and it's the process that needs to happen. we are a polarized nation right now and nobody can deny it, by it is our job to get it back together, i'm willing to do it,

i know my colleague is, and this is a new year, an opportunity to overcome the challenges and put the country first. and i'm excited to get to work. >> i am, too. >> okay. let's keep that sound bite, because it sounds happy and i'm elated. a lot of people from your party have come out. congressman, last week your president came out and said i want to get rid of six agencies and made them one, and some people in your party said we want to do more than that, and so we won't give you that. we won't give you anything. that really came off as more of the same and bad spirited. what are you going the do about that? >> well, first of all, the part of the frustration on the republican side is that we've put a lot of the initiatives on the table already and if you look at the bills that have passed the house, a lot of it deals with these things, there's a lot of duplicative things that we said we should consolidate going back to last year, and it

feels like the president is taking some of those initiatives, dusting them off, and saying they're his own, and we're supposed to support them. but why didn't we support it all year long? it is frustration, but at the end of the day, we will get it done. >> you will get it done. let me ask you about the debt ceiling issue, representative gramm, you again. you have to cast a vote disapproving it, and you're going to cast it disaprievingering right, in your case? >> yes. >> why is that? why not say, we all know that we have to do this? that could be a good way to make a goodwill gesture? >> well, i think that because the negotiations up to this point have not been completely in goodwill. i think that most of the republicans and a lot of my colleagues on the other side realize that we are facing an out-of-control debt crisis, and we have not been able to get it under control. we have not put together a plan that the rest of the world deems

credible, let alone the united states. >> well, i agree, they are playing political games and we have to raise the debt ceiling, because america pays the bills you know that, i know that. and i think that having a resolution on the floor just to vote no about raising the debt ceiling when you know we have to work together to do so is to me just brinksmanship. >> i respect that opinion, i really do, but at the same time america pays the bills, but america has been living way above its means for so long that if we continue on that, we are three years away from italy. we know what is happening in europe, and what is going to happen there. >> don't you think you have made that point before. we know that, and the tea party contributed to the awareness of the debt problem. and we know it, and this is going to pass anyway. >> if we know it, why aren't we dealing with it? this is another step to say, we have been fighting all year long to control the debt and put a plan in place to deal with it, but we have yet to do it. so it is not ceremonial, but a reminder to america and the president that we are living

above our means and we are spending money that we don't have and borrowing from nations like china and putting ourselves in a debt crisis that we may not get out of. we have to continue to ring the bell to say, wake up, america. we have to get a handle on it. >> and the super committee was charged with doing that and failed. what will each of you agree to that might upset your party that you would agree with to deal with that problem. we know there's a problem. >> if you want, i will take it first. we can join a group go big which is bipartisan, bicameral, that is working day and night on a policy and a procedure to do something tangible, something the world is going to say, that makes sense. whether it's $4 billion, $4 trillion, $5 trillion, i don't know the number, but it's a big number. i promise and i will promise my colleague on tv is that anything you put on the table i agree n to demonize or shoot down. it doesn't mean i'm going to agree with it, but i'm not going

to shoot it down. at least listen to each other, and i know i can with you, but we need to do it as parties and conferences that we're not going to demonize each other's ideas. we have to listen to them and work together even if we disaglee. >> i agree with you. listen, i agree that we agree on this issue which is collaboration and working together for a common cause. i think that for me i have joined a bipartisan caucus as well, the common cause which is a group of freshmen both republican and democrat and we are committed to working together to solve some of the nation's biggest problems. and so i look forward to working with you, michael, and i'll take you up on the offer to work together. >> if there were more members like you, would we get this worked out. >> what are you getting married? you are wearing the same outfits, and -- >> i asked, but she said no. >> my mom is watching. >> thanks to both of you. we appreciate it and we will hold you to it and have you back. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> wisconsin democrats and

unions have collected more than a million signatures demanding the recall of scott walker. posturing or the end of walker's days? >> and iran says they're finally giving back america's superspy drones, sort of. sort of. we have the drones. really, i have the drones. >> and we have obtained a tape from the downed cruise ship in italy. they reveal the coast caguard h to shout at the captain to return to the ship. we'll play that for you. i won't go without it for my high cholesterol and my risk of heart attack. why kid myself? diet and exercise weren't lowering my cholesterol enough. now i'm eating healthier, exercising more, taking lipitor. numbers don't lie. my cholesterol's stayed down. lipitor is fda approved to reduce the risk of heart attack and stroke in patients who have heart disease or risk factors for heart disease. it's backed by over 19 years of research. [ female announcer ] lipitor is not for everyone, including people with liver problems and women who are nursing, pregnant or may become pregnant.

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all right. see that box, that is just one of several that hosts more than a million signatures from voters in wisconsin. they want republican governor scott walker gone. why the outrage? well, it stems from the governor's push last year to cut the collective bargaining rights of state workers. he and his republican legislature argued it was necessary in order to cut the state deficit without raising taxes. you remember this? remember these images? it is sort of riveted the country and us.

protesters of unions shutting down the legislature for weeks last year. in the end, the republican bill to cut union worker es rights passed. democrats are still angry, and they are not going quietly. we asked the man leading the charge to get rid of governor walker, and wisconsin democratic party chairman mike tate whether it was worth the $9 million taxpayer money to have a recall election right now, and this is what he told me. >> it's an extraordinary step to go outside of the process, but it's a necessary one in this cay, and 1 million of my fellow wisconsinin terx s agree with me. when governor walker ran for office, he didn't talk about how he would govern or taking the collective bargaining rights back, or anything.

while it is going to cost a little bit of money to have the elections, it is the best down payment we can make on the state's future and the future of the families. >> so, are recalls the best way to hold elected officials accountable and worth the people's time and money that you are running for election all of the time? it already feels that way. "outfront" now, the author of "grand new party" and also, the deputy communications director for president obama. good to have both of you with us. >> great to be here. >> good to see you, jen. and rihan, only two governors have been successfully recalled, so is this a good example of the the people's frustration, they got the signatures they needed, and his is the way the process should work? >> well, it reflects the depth of the frustration and how the ideological divides are shaping the electorate. last time it happened in california it was a democratic governor recalled and this time it is a republican governor recalled and my fear is to see this become a back and forth, again and again, a tit for tat,

and i think the underlying issues are much more scrambled than people understand. >> jen, what is your point of view, because the people recalling him say he didn't say he would do all of these things, but a lot of people are elected to office including presidents who come in and don't do what say they're going to do and then they do it, so is this enough of a grund to have a recall? >> well, erin, recalls are rare and there is a high bar to jump over to recall someone, but this is a million people who have signed petitions in wisconsin. that is 25% of the people who are eligible to vote in the state who are so dissatisfied and so unhappy with the governor, that they have the right through the democratic process, through the process allowed by law to take action. so i don't think that this is the start of a trend, but i think that it is more of a case where people in the state are so dissatisfied with the governor's attack on worker's rights and they are taking action. >> i think that it is absolutely the start of the trend.

if you look at the last time we had a recall, arnold schwarzenegger came into officer and tried to curb the power of the labor unions and he then lost because these folks have extraordinary resources at their disposa disposal. they spend $20 million the last time around to dispute a group of senators, and this time they're going to spend more because part of the law that could be up to $11,000 a worker, they're saying the dues are no longer mandatory, and you should be able to choose whether you want to pour your salary into what are essentially political campaigns and they know that you drain that money away, they will not choose who their bosses are. choosing your bosses is a great way of seeing to it that you're constantly getting paid more regardless of the productivity. walker is not the best messenger, but this is fundamentally a purple proposal and not red proposal, because it gave the republican and the

democratic mayors to come to common sense bargains with public workers in the state. >> even chris christie who has had tussles vocally and in the midst of them with new jersey said that governor walker did not go about this politically the best way. >> here is what i know about governor walker, today, nearly 1 million people, and the petitions are turned in and nearly 1 million people signed to oust the governor and he is in new york doing a fund raiser with the former ceo of aig so it is clear that he is disconnected from the challenges going on with the workers and the families in his state. but at the same time, budget cutting has become an attack, and a weapon by the republicans across the board, not just governor walker, but you know, you look at cut, cap, and balance, which is something where republican candidates including mitt romney and many in congress have touted, and there are concerning issues people are going to take a closer look at. >> but they have state jobs though, and that is a national thing that there is improvement there, but they have, jen? >> wisconsin -- sorry?

>> wisconsin among others? >> well, that is true, but at the same time, people are concerned, also, about making sure they have the rights. making sure they have the, you know, the ability to stand up for their workers in the state, and workers, you know, across the country. and this is an sxmp of somebody who has overreached and trying to cut down on rights of workers, and people will take a close look at that. >> and this is straight forward, illinois is right next door to wisconsin and it is a state where they tried to balance budgets and a state where they laid off huge public workers where wisconsin said a common sense agreement on the labor agreements on health care costs, et cetera, and they fired way fewer workers and better for the public workers who wanted to keep the jobs in wisconsin than illinois. so if you want to go down the road to illinois and see services deteriorate, go that route. if you want a situation where the democratic and the

republican mayors can come to common sense agreements that is what walker's proposal did. >> two different world views and thank you both for coming on to share. >> all of you, let us know what you think on twitter. >> thank you very much. security today is tighter in tehran. the country taking quote remarkable measures to protect the nuclear scientists after last week's murder of a leading scientist. now we are not sure exactly what that entails for security, but the government is has arrested several suspects linked to the assassination. we are trying to find out if the arrested were iranian or american or other nationalities, iran is keeping their identities secret for now. blaming israel and the united states for the murder. we asked cia official chad sweet about the sig knls of the arrest.

>> they are significant if they have been able to identify them of israel or another foreign power such as saudi arabia, if they can produce any kind of evidence that connects them with a foreign power. we could be looking at a major international incident so this is something we need to watch. also, today, egypt sent a nation to the united nations signed by 140 countries, including china, saying that they quote condemn america for violating iran air space with the sentinel drone. now, iran has the top secret drone and you see it there on display and there is a big development on the return of the drone. remember president obama saying this -- >> with respect to the drone, inside of iran, i'm not going to comment on intelligence matters that are classified. as have already been indicated,

we have asked for it back. we will see how the iranians respond. >> all right. well, iran responded today and saying it is sending a toy replica of the drone, yep, and they are going to inscribe on the belly, here on the star wars here, we will trample the u.s. they offered to send it to the united states in pink. yeah. presidential candidate mitt romney, a multimillionaire pays a lower tax rate than you. we will talk about that. and the government says that america is overrun by giant snakes and planning to do a number of things about it. and which of these beers comes from america's largest brewery. place your bet on facebook or twitter. and yes, these beers are all chilled and ready for the staff to drink after the show. the answer up next. [ male announcer ] talking a big game about your engine is one thing. having a proven history that can back it all up is a whole other story.

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so the u.s. fish and

wildlife service announced today that it is banning the import and interstate transport of four non-native constrictor snakes. the decision that takes -- oh, ah. the decision takes place in two months. the burmese python and the yellow anaconda, and the northern and southern africa pythons and injurious wildlife has threatened the everglades and other ecosystems by killing species like wood rats and wood storks. according to the fish and wildlife services quote, burmese pythons have already caused substantial harm in florida. by taking this action today, we will help prevent further harm from these large constrictor snakes to native wildlife. that brings us to the number, $100 million which is the amount of money that the department of interior spends every single year to control pythons and other invasive species. the figure includes the hiring

of adorable snake-sniffing dogs like thomas. we met thomas. he is supposed to find and eradicate pythons and other constrictor snakes. we met the dogs and visited the homeland security training center, and considering the pythons have been known to devour animals such as the 60-pound deer, this has the be the worst job ever for dogs that weigh 20-25 pounds. still "outfront" -- the outfront five -- >> abandoned ship. >> wikipedia takes a stand. >> this bill is very badly written. this will damage the internet. >> all of this is "outfront" in our second half.

we start the second half of our show with stories that we focus on our own reporting and do the work and find the "outfront" five. up first. welcome back, congress. the house is back in session after a month-long break. hopefully rested and ready to make up for 2011. unfortunately for us the battles ahead are not different from last year. the first fight will be raising the debt ceiling limit, starting tomorrow, coming to a place near you. and then the payroll tax cut that expires next month, and remember the two-month deal. and the super committee, we hold out hope for that. and the bush tax cuts will expire at the end of the year, and that is going to be one hell of a fight.

and two congressmen came out tonight who promised they would not fight each other, and we will be watching. number two, a convicted murderer pardoned by mississippi governor haley barbour refusing to check in with the state. the family refusing the cooperate. that is what jim hood told cnn. joe osmond was freed a week ago but they said that he and four others shouldn't have been released. everyone but osment has contacted the state. he was convicted to prison for murdering a clerk. >> and number three, the shakeup in the beer world. the largest brewer in the world is now yuengling. where did it go? you took my beer away. i had a cold beer here. some stole it. is it open over there? and it passed boston beer sam adams the boston-based beer maker since 1911.

and also, anheuser-busch, and the belgian brazilian company, miller and corazon by a canadian conglom wrt, and none of them are truly american beers anymore. who has it? and also 40% of the cuts of the layoffs for kraft are coming from the sales units. that is after the maker of ritz crackers and post decided to split into snack foods and grocery foods. the president said that making these choices is never easy. our plan for a more nimble company combined with the current economic and competitive pressures, led us to this point. well, it has been 180 days since america lost the aaa credit union. what are we doing to get it back. americans are cutting their credit card data, for one. the average balance last year went down 11% from a year ago.

mitt romney is under intense pressure to release his tax returns, and today, he showed us a little leg. >> what is the effective rate i am paying? closer to the 15% rate than anything, because the last ten years, i have -- my income comes overwhelmingly from investments made in the past rather than ordinary income or earned annual income. i get a little bit of income from my book, but i gave all of that away. and then i get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much. >> all right. the comment got a lot of reaction and mostly from the people who thought it was unfair they were paying a higher rate than mitt romney. so we went to look at the numbers and found out something surprising. thanks to the nonpartisan tax foundation, we learned that there are 138 million tax returns in 2009 and the latest year available. 75% of the taxpayers paid a rate lower than mitt romney and 25% paid more. back to two of our favorite people to tell us what they think.

david from and john avalon. someone handed me this to prove it was here. at the end of the segment, pop a cold one. he showed a little leg and said he would release his tax return in april, though? >> right, in april when the primaries will be over and now we know why he is resistant to turn over the tax returns, this is what frustrates so many folks. we're having a fight about the bush tax cuts. we found out that a lot of folks in the superrich category are paying 15%. now we know why he doesn't support the buffett rule, and what we're learning is which is an election liability, he's not paying the top percentage, but 25%. >> they are in the active workforce earning income. if you're earning income, you have pay income tax rates.

mitt romney is retired from the earning income part of his life. he is living on investments. therefore, he's paying capital gains rate. and there is a strong case for capital tax rate than earned income rate. we have a market control of assets whether it is land or corporate governance and we want to make sure that the transactions happen as seamlessly as possible. if you own a piece of land and somebody has a better idea of what to do with it, we don't want to make a 50% barrier of flipping over the piece of property from the lower-valued user to the higher-valued owner. remember, the asset pays tax to whoever owns it. whether it's a company or a piece of ground paying property tax. we want to make the transaction seamless, quick, and we don't want to put artificial barrier in the way. and that is why we have low capital gains taxes. >> and interesting that people benefit from one shape or fashion, and homeowners and capital losses for a while, but older americans who have a lot

of dividend income and pay a much lower rate, and if you change the rate, you are hurting those people, too? >> yes, and the rate should be low for people living off widows and orphan stocks where they're living off their dividends, but we're talking about something different here. it is not barriers to sell property, but someone living off of smart investments and good for him, but therefore paying a lower rate -- >> you are even to the left of the president on this one. he is not trying to get the rate up here. >> we should have a flatter and fairer tax code with fewer loopholes. this is what frustrates so many people. this is the middle-class squeeze that people are feel where there is a distinction between the super rich, living off of 15%, passive income in many cases and the middle-working class, that is working hard every day and feeling squeezed. >> fair point. >> understand the abuse is. theoretically, you want the capital gains as low as possible. the thing that is making people upset is that we have not had a lot of capital gains in the american economy in the last ten years. consult the standard and poor's, it's not up. land prices aren't up. what is happening and this is

what enrages people and this is a valid complaint. people investing not their own money but other people's money that have persuaded congress to treat what looks a lot like income as capital gains. >> this is something that mitt romney in the past would have benefitted from as a partner of bain capital. that could have been significant. >> if he actually owns shares in companies or pieces of ground and he's an active investor with his own money at risk, you want a lower capital gains rate. >> and this is something that he has said in the past, lower taxes create jobs, because that mitt romney hasn't been creating jobs. he's paying a lower rate based on previous investments. so that is when you start to push the issues to the front. >> and we won't know that until the elections. >> and that is because he is not going to release them until the election is over. >> hit pause. thanks so much.

>> we learn more of the questionable behavior of the costa concordia cruise ship tape. we'll play it for you. and also, the older brother of kim jong-il speaking out tonight, kim jong-un, and we will hear that. >> this show talking about soapa. we're staying out front on the eve of the blackout of wikipedia. exclusively outfront. i checked the schedule and it's not on it. [ laughs ] you never know when advil® is needed. well most people only know one side of my life. they see me on stage and they think that that is who i am. there's many layers to everybody everywhere. singer, songwriter, philanthropist, father, life's a juggling act. when i have to get through the pain, i know where to go. [ male announcer ] take action. take advil®. i just saved a ton of money at staples. great job, dave. suck-up. [ male announcer ] in a small business, it's all you. that's why you have us.

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the world. tonight we begin in north korea. kim jong-il's oldest son predicting that the regime led by his half brother kim jong-un will fail. he was passed over as leader of the reclusive state when he enraged his father more than a decade ago after trying to sneak into japan to visit disneyland. he has been living in exile. he says that the brother is too young and not groomed for the position. we asked him what has given him the confidence to talk right now? >> the biggest mystery about north korea is the how kim jong-un could walk around without a body guard and make the subversive statements, and i think it is because beijing was protecting him. they perhaps saw the ability to insert him into peon young and

use him as a puppet if circumstances warranted it. and now the afghanistan. the u.s. is inching closer to the peace talks with the taliban. a representative for afghanistan and pakistan mark grossman is in the region to work out details. he is working the secret taliban negotiators for more than a year and this is on the heels of the taliban's announcement it plans to open up a political office in the gulf state of qatar. we asked what they are negotiating to get this done? >> these are preliminary talks so far between u.s. officials and the taliban representatives. everybody agreeing at this point that they have to get the afghan government onside to come along with the process. that is what the u.s. officials have to do in kabul to convince president karzai that he needs to be a part of. >> thanks. five more bodies recovered from the italian cruise ship the

costa concordia off the gulf port today. the ship's captain, schettino, is under fire, for abandoned ship before all of the passengers, including children and the disabled, were evacuated. listen to the coast guard ordering him to get back on the ship. [ speaking foreign language ] schettino could face

schettino could face manslaughter charges and 15 years in prison. a judge placed him under house arrest while they consider the charges. and the italian coast guard continues to search for survivors. the divers struggle to move through a labyrinth of debris and furniture. and we're joined by a couple who were fortunate enough to escape. they arrived in albany, new york, this morning. appreciate your taking the time. let me ask you your reaction. i know you can hear the anger and frustration of the port authority coast guard telling captain scutehettino, christ, i your job to be there, and him fighting back. what is your reaction given you were there that day?

>> it is -- it's incredible to believe that the man just left the ship, and with everything that was going on, people dying, and people panicking, with no direction from anywhere, and he just up and left the ship. it is just incomprehensible. >> it is hard to maintain a chain of command when the top man leaves the boat. >> let me ask you, brian, what happened to you. you know, you were -- you got on the deck as you ran out of dinner. and you were trying to get life jackets. what happened and how did other people trying to escape treat you? it seemed like a darwinian moment. >> well, when we first got up on the deck the lifeboats were, my first priority was to find a life jacket. i went to the first few lockers along the gunnell, and there were no life jackets in them at all. finally the third or the fourth

locker, there were three in the bottom of it, and i dove in it. absolutely dove in it. took them out and started fighting my way through the crowd back to joan and alanna. people were just grabbing at the life jackets trying to pull them out of my hands. luckily i was holding them like a football that they could not get them away. i got them to joan, and first to alanna and then one to joan, and then a woman tried to pull the life jacket away from joan and actually tore it in half. so i gave her mine, and then i don't even remember where i found another one. and so we all three had the equipment we needed. >> joan, what was your memory of exactly what happened at that time and were there moments of heroism from other passengers or really just a panic and some horrible moments like people trying to grab your life jacket off your body?

>> well, there was panic. every time the lights went out, people would start screaming and there was utter chaos. as far as heroism, i have to commend my daughter. she saw one little girl with a life vest that was literally as big as she, and alanna who had a smaller life vest, you know, took hers and gave it to the little girl so she would have something more suitable for herself. she was helping the children, and there were children there being squashed just by the pressings of the crowds. she was really trying to help the children. some people really tried to get control of the crowds. just trying the get silence so people would listen to the announcements, and to stop pushing and every now and then people would catch their breath and settle down a little bit, but if there was another jerking

of the ship the panic would start all over again. >> brian, if you could talk to the captain schettino, what would you say to him? >> well, that is a tough one. i think that i have to let the courts and take care of that. it -- he'd have to realize how angry the whole world probably is at him at this point, and certainly, he's ruined the reputation of the professional captains around the world, and he certainly hasn't helped the costa line. >> well, brian and joan, thank you so much, and glad you are back home and your daughter as well. we appreciate your coming on tonight. >> up next, the prioracy act

last week, and we're on the eve of wikipedia shutting down, blacking out, going away. the cofounder out front. toward accomplishing something is showing up. [ thunder crashes ] and with the most advanced all-wheel-drive system in its class that adapts to conditions as they change, now all you have to worry about is what you accomplish when you get there. ♪

so today i was on youtube and typed in the phrase barbie girl, as in i'm a barbie girl. i was able to find a download of the audio version of the song, and i was going to play it. and also the band behind it that didn't get a cent when i downloaded it, we taped it and i

was playing it and dancing, and our executive producer was worried we'd get sued, so we're not playing it, but the point is, if you know the song, this is part of the giant battle enflaming the passions of millions, including the cofounder of wikipedia. in fact, if you go there tonight, the website will be dark. they're shutting down in protest of legislation of an act called sopa. we were one of the few to roepot on the story last week. it's blown up with twitter, google, facebook, and yahoo supporting them. and throwing their muscle behind it, including the parent company of this network, time warner. what is sopa? it's a proposed bill that aims to cut down on copyright infringement. they would also restrict access to entire websites that host one

piece of information. critics say that's unreasonable and would cost a lot of money. i spoke to the cofounder of wikipedia. and we asked him about stealing songs by aqua and barba girl and why he's so passion about this issue. >> the openness of the internet, the freedom of speech issues are paramount. you know, one of the things we know is in the u.s., we have a perfectly reasonable and workable regime for dealing with copyright violations. if the group aqua wants to have that song removed from youtube, they have to notify youtube and they have the responsibility to take it down. that's not really the issue here. the issue is things like dms blocking, overseas sites that have content, placing all kind of burdens on community generated sites that police everything our users are doing in an unreasonable way i'm a big

believer we should be dealing with issues of privacy and in a serious way, but this is not the right bill. >> let me ask you about something specifically. you're talking about wikipedia. how are you supposed to police everything in a site that is created by millions and millions and millions of people around the world. there's a website we found called piratebay, really exists for the purpose of sharing content that it doesn't own. they have a lot of popular shows available on the piratebay, glee, deadliest catch, lost, a whole lot of others. do you support sites like that, but do you think that's a problem that needs to be fixed? >> yeah, for me, i think that is a problem. and i think the right way to fix it is to not place sensorship on the internet and not force google to start listing them, not force wikipedia to stop talking about them. follow the money. if you have large scale piracy

going on, it's the same as any other trade dispute, and i think that's the right approach. >> for you, give an example of how this would restrict free speech on anything like wikipedia if this act passes. >> well, there's a lot of different versions of the act. in the worst versions of the bill, wikipedia would be defined as a search engine and we wouldn't be able to link to a pirate pbay, even in our description of what it is. that's a real problem. they raises really serious first amendment issues. >> rupert murdoch, news corp. and on the side of people who like the act because they make a lot of content, but here is what he said. he was angry with president obama for jumping on your side of it. he said, quote, he's jumped in the lot with silicon valley paymasters who threaten -- why is he so wrong? >> it's such