susan candiotti is outside beaver stadium in university park, pennsylvania. susan, lots of people have been filing right behind you, paying their respects? what are they saying? >> that's right, fredricka. among both students and nonstudents here on the penn state campus, there are tears. there are hugs and there are silent prayers for the passing of joe paterno. condolences coming in from all over the country, including from former president george herbert walker bush. the sandusky scandal will be part of joe paterno's legacy here at penn state. he is certainly beloved among everyone here. fredricka? >> susan candiotty, thanks so much. we'll hear from you later on at 2:30 eastern time. join me at that hour. we'll have more on the late joe paterno. we'll also examine the week ahead in the 2012 presidential race following newt gingrich's win of the south carolina

primary. i'm fredricka whitfield. "fareed zakaria gps" starts right now. >> this is "gps, the global public square." welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. first up, private equity. the words are on everyone's lips thanks to mitt romney. we'll sit down with one of the inventors private equity, the co-pounder of the legendary carlyle group, david rubenstein. then i have a lot to talk about with an all-star panel. ariana huffington, steve rattner, david frum and mort zuckerman. next up, what do the shipyard in tahrir square have in common? a lot. first, here's my take. i spent the last few weeks working on an essay for "time" magazine on barack obama's foreign policy. and in association with that piece, i interviewed the president last wednesday in the

oval office. let me give you a few of my thoughts and impressions. obama seemed relaxed, calm, confident. i asked him about mitt romney's attacks on him as indecisive, timid and nuanced. i don't quite know why being nuanced is a bad thing but that is what romney said. obama responded that romney and the rest of the republican field are going to be playing to their base until the primary season is over. after that, he said, he looked forward to having a foreign policy debate. overall, i think it's going to be pretty hard to argue that we have not executed a strategy over the last three years that has put america in a stronger position than it was when i came into office, he said. i think obama has good reasons to be confident on this front. he ended the oval office with the united states deeply unpopular around the world, with vast commitments in iraq and afghanistan, difficult relations with many countries and a large part of the world feeling it had been ignored by an america obsessed by the war on terror. obama was determined to pare down america's commitments, its

military footprint and regain trust and good will abroad. and for the most part, he succeeded. there were 140,000 troops in iraq when he came into office. there are zero now. he added troops in afghanistan, but there, too, a drawdown has begun. he scaled back the nation building aspect but embraced and expanded the counterterrorism angle, fighting al qaeda and other terrorist groups. obam ordered more drone attacks in the first two years of his presidency than george w. bush did in his entire two terms. eight years. and the results have been noteworthy. most of al qaeda's senior leadership has been killed. the strategy's crowning success was, of course, the killing of osama bin laden. if the war against al qaeda is the most visible and dramatic success story, the most significant long-term success might be in asia where obama has pivoted. asia is the new arena of global

wealth, power and politics and obama decided to expand american presence in the region with a flurry of diplomating i, political and military moves over the last six months. he did so carefully and skillfully so it was seen by asian countries as a response to their requests rather than a unilateral assertion of american power. when historians write about an obama doctrine, they might point to his new asia strategy. his declaration that america is a pacific power and we're here to stay. all in all, it's a pretty strong record which is why you actually don't hear republicans talking much about foreign policy on the campaign trail these days. for more on all this, read my cover essay in this week's "time" magazine and the interview or go to time.com for the complete interview. let's get started. looting. that is what newt gingrich says

private equity is all about. but rather than take his word for it, i wanted to go to the top. my next guest is a pioneer of private equity, the term didn't really exist before david rubenstein and his partners founded the carlyle group almost 25 years ago. today, carlyle is, by some estimates, the largest private equity firm in the world. the companies in their portfolio have revenues of approximately $100 billion. if rubenstein's name sounds familiar, he was also in the news this week for donating $7.5 million to fix the washington monument. welcome, david. >> my pleasure. >> do you understand the attacks that people are making about private equity, about mitt romney? the basic argument, as i understand it, goes, private equity companies buy these companies, load them up with debt, fire lots of workers, find some low-cost place to do the same thing and that's how they make money and it's terrible for american workers. >> well, i think that's unfortunate because that's not

the reality. the reality is this. private equity firms are very good at buying companies, improving them, strengthening them, actually increasing employment in many cases and doing a very good job for the investors. most of whom are public pension funds. fire workers, policemen, teachers. they are the beneficiaries principally of private equity. >> do you thing basic model that people look at is wrong then? that they say these private equity comes and -- so when you buy a company, how do you strengthen it? you know, how -- what is the magic that makes you able to grow the company other than firing workers and, therefore, reducing costs. >> firing workers is something rarely done. private equity statistics so when you hire more workers you make more money. private equity firms are trying to hire more workers and make the companies bigger than when they -- >> because they make more stuff. >> that's what the statistics show. when you hire more people and make more products or more services that you sell, you actually make more money and that's good for investors. actually what private equity does is this.

somebody like my firm will buy a company. we are innocecented to do well. the managers of the company, the people who are the ceos running the company. they get a large piece of the profits as well. typically we do this in a private setting. we don't have to worry about public reporting for a long time. the company's ceo can worry about making the company more efficient over a four to six-year term. over a 10-year, 20-year and 30-year period of time if you invest with a good private equity firm you are likely to get a higher rate of return than almost anything else you could invest with. we're simply incenting the workers and ceos and professionals to be aligned with the investors that make the companies grow. >> what do you think of bain capital and the stories you hear about it in the context of this campaign? >> well, it's disappointing if you are in an industry that is actually adding value, creating jobs, making america more efficient in many ways and more

effective in many ways. private equity is dominated by the united states companies. the largest private equity firms are here. many people around the world are looking to us to how we do private -- how they should do private equity there. the chinese, for example. they very much want to import our private equity statistics and -- because those statistics show that we are very good at what we do and they want these skills and these know-how we have here. so why is it the chinese are so interested in learning what we do in private equity? because they want to make their companies more effective, efficient and strengthen employment as well. so i don't think what happened to bain in terms of the criticism is really that fair. they may have done some things i don't know about years ago that aren't the practice of today. remember, much of what mitt romney did happened 20 years ago or more and the practice of the industry have evolved. >> the other part about private equity that people worry about or are kind of stunned by is the kind of money you guys make. so because there may be an ipo for carlyle, you had to report this and the three founders of

carlyle, i think, collectively made $450 million, plus returns from your own investments. you made several hundred million dollars last year. do you understand how a lot of americans look at that and say this just isn't fair? >> well, first, i come from very modest circumstances. my father worked in the post office. probably never made more than $8,000 a year as an employee of the post office. so when people can rise up from very modest circumstances and do well economically, i think that's a good thing about america and we should encourage that kind of activity. secondly, i give away about 50% of my income. so my desire to give back to the country is pretty strong and i intend to give away a lot more. i've signed the giving pledge with warren buffett and i do have a good income by most american standards but i'm giving it away and doing kinds of things like you mentioned the other day, the washington monument. third, i don't really set the rules about what income will be and taxes and so forth. if taxes are something that

people are concerned about, congress should change the taxes in the context of comprehensive tax reform. most importantly, the money that i make or my partners make is perfectly aligned with our investors. if our investors make a lot of money, then we'll make money. so the pension funds that invest with us are doing very well, yes, we will do well. because we are doing well, i'm fortunate to be able to give away the bulk of my money. >> do you know that there is a proposal that the bulk of the money you make which is currently taxed at capital gains rates, which is much lower than income tax rates that that should be changed. a lot of people feel that isn't fair that this is really income and it should be charged at a higher rate. do you support changing the rate of carried interest from capital gains to ordinary income. >> there are very few people who actually go to congress and say please tax me higher. maybe there are some but there aren't many. in my case what i would like is congress to tackle tax reform in

a comprehensive way. trying to do it piece meal doesn't usually work well. when i work in the white house for president carter we try to do comprehensive tax reform. we made some progress. other presidents have as well. if you want to change that particular provision, do it in the context of everything else. the tax system we have today is not fair in many ways. i wish it could be improved. when you have 10,000 pages of regulations and nobody can fill out their own tax return, that's not a good thing. so i wish we would change it, but don't blame me for complying with the law. all i'm doing is filling out my tax returns or my accountants are and i'm paying what i'm supposed to pay, though i'm giving away a large amount of the money and probably lowers my tax rate because i'm giving away so much money. but change the law. but don't blame me for the law. i didn't write the law. >> but in the context of comprehensive tax reform you would be comfortable with -- >> i would like to see what the whole changes would be. i can't just pick out one change. i want to make sure we have good incentives for doing what we do well in our business. the united states does very well

in private equity and we have a very good economy. the most innovative economy in the world. i want to make sure we don't do anything to tax reform that would do away with that. i want to make sure that whatever congress does, it encourages people to do the kind of investing that we do. >> let me ask you about the economy because you are looking at it with all these companies that you own, $100 billion in revenue and this would put you as one of the largest corporations in the world, really if you were to count it that way. do you get the feeling the american economy is bouncing back? >> the american economy is in better shape than people thought it was just six months ago. i expect that this year will grow at 3%, maybe 3.5%. europe will probably be flat to negative. so the united states economy, while we have too much debt and i am very concerned about that. $15 trillion of debt, and we're running a $1.3 trillion annual deficit. that has to be addressed. i hope congress and the president will address that relatively soon and not wait until after the next presidential election to address

it. but given those debt figures, we are doing reasonably well. i think we would do better if we tackled our debt problem, though. >> talk about the stuff you buy and give away. >> sure. >> so you are giving $7.5 million to clean the washington monument. you bought a -- >> more than clean it. it's repair it. earthquake damage, yes. >> you bought a copy of the emancipation proclamation and what did you do with it? >> i have bought a number of historic documents and i put them on display at places where i think people can see them. it's important for people to know about american history. i bought a copy of the magna carta. i put that on display at the national archives so americans can see the document that inspired the declaration of independence and the constitution and bill of rights. i bought a copy of the emancipation proclamation and put that on display at the oval office. i bought a couple of copies of the declaration of independence. one is on display at the state department. i bought a copy of the 13th amendment which freed slaves.

that will be displayed somewhere ne else in washington soon. i'm proud of owning these documents and making sure that people can see them and learn american history. i'm very concerned people don't know enough about our history and the rights we have and the freedoms we have. and i think americans would learn more about american history, would be a better country. >> you buy all these documents. you don't keep any of them at home? >> no. >> if one were to go to your house, would there be any documents there? >> i don't want to have things in my house because how many people are going to see them? i want the american feem see them. millions of people go to the archives. million goes to the smithsonian or state department and they can see these documents. and that's more important than having them displayed in my house. >> david rubenstein, pleasure to have you on. >> my pleasure, fareed. up next, the gps roundtable. the economy, the primary race and more. [ kyle ] my bad.

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aspercreme breaks the grip, with maximum-strength medicine and no embarrassing odor. break the grip of pain with aspercreme. there's lots to talk about today in politics. the economy and much more. let's get right to it.

joining me now, ariana huffington is the editor in chief and president of the huffington post media group. david frum is a contributing editor for the daily beast and "newsweek." steve rattner left a long career on wall street to be the obama administration's car czar. now he is back in business. and mort zuckerman is the chairman of boston properties and the editor in chief of "u.s. news and world report." welcome to you all. david, let me start with you. one of the things i've been puzzling over is, what happened to the tea party? this was the party that -- you know, this was meant to be the thing that was going to totally transform the republican party. and it doesn't quite seem to have that had effect. >> failed to generate an alternative to mitt romney and it's taking a bad humiliation because of it. i think a lot of the energy has gone out of it. especially in south carolina, here's something that i think is maybe relevant. the senator jim demint from south carolina has been a vocal

advocate of the tea party. he's also been the leading opponent of dredging the harbor of charleston. it needs a deeper harbor if it's to compete with savannah. people in south carolina were saying, this is beginning to interfere with somebody's livelihood. that it's one thing to say we refuse all federal dollars for everybody else but when you refuse federal dollars here in south carolina, that's a very different story. >> but it's interesting that you have, within the republican party, it's almost as though each of these candidates represents one element of the republican party. santorum, the more religious, you know, socially conservative. romney, the traditional businessman. is there a sense that even in the republican party, capitalism is on trial, that people are not convinced that being in private equity is such a great thing after all? >> i don't know about that. i must say that i think there is a sense that somehow or other this economy went south in a big way and somehow or other the

business world, but particularly the financial world had a larger role in that than in previous times, certainly since the end of world war ii and there's some real validity to that. but i don't think -- to my mind, what's going to happen no matter where these people go, ultimately they'll choose between a republican and a democrat. the democrat happens to be obama. and one thing that will unite the republican party is their hostility to obama. however the primaries play out, that will be the major residue for the general election. >> what about the economy? i mean, one theory is that the tea party is beginning to wane in influence because it was part of what was fuelling it was just this despair and that economic numbers are getting better. >> there's no question. and i think mort might disagree with me, the economic numbers are getting better. we just had late last week, new claims for unemployment down to 352,000, which is the lowest number, i think, since 2008. and every indicator is pointing

to a continuation of this modest economic recovery. but remember, people's incomes haven't really gone up during this, so there's still a lot of unhappiness. the unemployment rate is still 8.5%, plus or minus at the moment. there's plenty to worry about in the economy. i think the tea party just simply lost its mojo so to speak. i think it lost its sense of purpose and real direction. >> you know, the people and on the ground do not feel that the economy is getting better. i was speaking at the mayors conference in d.c. on thursday, and you have mayors who are republicans and democrats, and they all feel that they are struggling. that their constituents are struggling, that services are being cut. and all these 600,000 public sector jobs that have been cut under obama have impacted communities in a disproportionate way. so when you talk about things improving and the fact that unemployment claims are down,

one of the reasons unemployment claims are down is because about 200,000 people are too discouraged now to look for work. >> that's not quite right. the new claims for unemployment insurance are for people who get laid off and then try to get unemployment. so it's not a -- >> but the 8.5% -- >> i don't disagree with any of you in the sense these cutbacks have been painful. people generally don't feel great about the economy. they shouldn't. and i finishing you look at the polls, what's also -- what struck me the other day in a poll is that democrats actually, by pretty wide margin think the economy is getting better. republicans think it's not getting better. i think that will all play into the politics of november. >> just on the economy. housing is at the heart of it. do you think residential housing is bottoming out and beginning to rise? >> you know, i don't think so. prices are still going down. if you measure it by the case-shiller index. and what is more, given the unemployment numbers, and i'm going to disagree with the unemployment numbers here

because what happens is the 8.5% really measure the people who have actively saute job in the last four weeks. but since the average period of unemployment is about 6 1/2 months, that just doesn't apply when the average period -- that's a record, by the way. so if you measure it by people who have applied for a job in the last six months and people who are working part time involuntarily, that is a couple days a week when they were working full time, that number -- this is the government number. 15.1%. if you add to that, people who have left the labor force, add 2.9% to that. you are talking 18%. we've never seen anything like that. certainly not in my lifetime. >> hold that thought. we will be back to discuss much more with our panel. we're going to talk about lots of interesting things. europe, iran. but up next, what in the world. how arab spring nations are looking to a rather surprising source for inspiration. a former communist country. i'll explain. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550

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as egypt, tunisia and libya transition from dictator sthop democracy, you'd think they'd look to america as a model for their new governments. but they don't. america is still too controversial in the arab world. instead, many of the countries transformed by the arab spring

are looking in a surprising place for inspiration. where is this new city on a hill? recognize this man landing at the airport in tunis, tunisia? it's the man whose actions 30 years ago in the gadansk ship yard in poland helped cause communism to crumble across eastern europe. he was in tunisia to pass on the lessons he had learned. in fact, poland is a good model for these countries. it's a country that started out with many problems, political and economic, but gradually overcame them. today's arab revolutioners do want to see how they did it. they are studying the eastern european experience and particularly the polish baath. and poland is cooperating in various ways. it's started hosting conferences to share its knowledge. it uses a u.s.-made computer game to train arab and east

european civil servants. it's called sense or the strategic economic needs and security exercise. sense simulates a virtual country emerging from authoritarian rule. years after training on it, warsaw is now passing on its own experience to the arab world. poland's political and economic success have given it a sense of confidence and a new profile on the international stage. it's a member of nato. in fact it now holds the rotating presidency of the european union. beyond europe, poland has also been one of washington's most loyal allies. poland was among the largest contributors of troops to the war in iraq and still has troops in afghanistan. perhaps the biggest reason for countries like egypt to pay attention to poland is it's a very rare breed in today's world, especially in europe. poland has a strong economy. the sixth biggest in the european union now and the only

eu country to have avoided a recession altogether. none of its banks needed to be rescued. its economy grew 4% last year and is on track to grow 3% in 2012. why, you ask, did it survive the turmoil in the eurozone. it has strong domestic demand and has been pouring money into infrastructure problems. but the real reason is that poland has yet to be allowed into the eurozone. it continues to use latis instead of the euro. unlike greece or italy it was able to devalue its currency to stay competitive. the irony is warsaw continues to see its destiny as being tied to the common currency. more than half its export goes to the eu. a majority of it to germany, its main trading partner. poles reason that being part of the same currency would encourage foreign direct investment in poland. it's not just about economics. after yearning for decades to be part of europe, its leaders now

feel a resurgent poland could be a full-fledged member of the european community. but perhaps poland should look at england, sweden and switzerland. all european countries, all with strong economies but with their own currencies. that might be the model to emulate. in any event, no arab country is likely to give up its currency any time soon no matter what poland will do. we'll be right back. next, back to our panel. ariana huffington, mort zuckerman, david frum, steve rattner. [ kyle ] my bad.

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and we are back with ariana huffington, david frum, steve rattner and mort zuckerman to talk about everything in the world. so talking about the united states, but, you know, whenever you get despair you can look at europe to cheer yourself up, right? your country of native origin again seems to be teetering on the brink. is it just going to default? what do you think is going to happen in greece? >> well in the end, you know, greece may decide to leave the euro. simply not only to prevent a civil unrest and to be able to

start growing the economy again. trying to get out of the crisis simply through austerity measures isn't going to work for greece. isn't going to work for everyone. and the civil unrest is greece in s a major factor that more and more politicians, economists are really taking into account in making decisions. >> steve you study this stuff. >> if greece were to leave the euro and i agree that's a real possibility, they'd have a completely nonfunctioning economy. their banking system would disappear. they would have to -- they'd be forced to make far more major cuts in their government workers and government programs because they couldn't borrow any money, obviously, and they don't have the tax revenues to cover it. it would be a disaster for greece to leave the euro. >> then what happens because they can't roll over these -- the numbers are too big. >> but the best chance for greece is to do what the rest of europe is trying to get them to do which is to agree to an austerity program and i agree with you on the limits of that and then get the debt holders to

agree to take this haircut down to some level that at least in theory they can do. the greeks have to decide whether to pull themselves together and get to work. >> but there is no work. >> but they also don't pay taxes. >> you have like 40% youth unemployment. i mean, i was in greece in the summer. i went to the square multiple times of the day and night and what's happening there cannot be dismissed. these are people who feel they have no hope for the future. >> but what's your solution? >> what i'm saying right now, just look at what has happened so far. greece has put forward all the cuts that it was asked by the -- >> no it has not. >> yes, it has. >> it has done almost nothing. >> they've not led to the revenue prospects that were expected because there's no growth. >> we've got to go on. i want to change the subject entirely. iran. one of the things the president has done over the last few weeks has been to really ratchet up the pressure on iran.

for the first time that i have ever heard bebe netanyahu is saying the sanctions are working, the iranians are wobbling. do you think this is likely to solve the problem or at least keep the pressure on iran in a kind of effective way? and, b, will it change the dynamic, where people in this country, particularly many jewish americans thought that obama was not doing enough to look after israel's security. >> i don't know how to assess what the impact is on iran. it's a very, very radical government. they are very ideologically driven. nobody can predict what will influence the iranians because they do have one thing that works for them. it's called oil. and that keeps them solvent and keeps them reasonably effective. but the political system is a mystery to a lot of people. >> they are having real trouble on oil. >> the reason the united states has been acting so forcefully

against iran and so many other people is not because of israel's security. it's because of security of the gulf. this is a de facto american, israeli, saudi, german alliance. in some which the stake is not just israel's security. and that is why -- if president obama tries to make this an ethnic point, he will -- it will justly backfire on him. >> the price of oil is now $110 a barrel, with lower demand in the united states, with demand weakening in china, presumably it's that high because everyone is worried. >> yes, and so the numbers are pretty simple. iran produces about 2.8 million barrels a day. about 4 million barrels a day of spare capacity in the whole world. you take iran out of the picture, you are operating on a razor thin margin? this is our vulnerability -- >> can i just finish? >> -- to the oil situation. i do think it is really remarkable how much cooperation we have been able to get out of places like china and india and the second it just shows how

scared people are about the nuclear side of iran. but we have to thread the needle. we have to make this work so that iran cooperates. we get what we need on the nuclear side and they keep shipping -- are able to resume shipping their oil because the world cannot -- oil prices will go a lot higher if iranian oil is out of the picture. >> i think it's important for us to look at how iran got so powerful. and what our contribution to that was because we invaded iraq. we don't want to go back to the invasion of iraq, which i consider one of the most disastrous foreign policy decisions america has ever made. but we must because i think we're going to make worse decisions if we don't understand the unintended consequences of that one. and any time we discuss iran and the growing power of iran and the growing possibility of dangers from iran, we need to remember that we are partly responsible for that. and we see how iraq, the iraqi government is getting closer and closer to iran and the dangers of that. >> shia government is no longer

a sunni government which it was before. >> in 2011 iraq produced for the first time, more oil than it did before the first gulf war. >> is that a good enough reason for what we did given the cost -- the incredible ongoing cost? >> you can buy wae the cost invest benefits but there is a benefit. iraq is back as an oil producer. >> ariana huffington, mort zuckerman, david frum, steve rattner. one on one with pakistan's imran khan. stay with us. lost your appetite for romance? and your mood is on its way down. you might not just be getting older. you might have a treatable condition called low testosterone or low t. millions of men, forty-five or older, may have low t. so talk to your doctor about low t. hey, michael! [ male announcer ] and step out of the shadows. hi! how are you? [ male announcer ] learn more at isitlowt.com. [ laughs ] hey!

pakistan is in crisis. perhaps an even deeper crisis than usual. there are rumors of military coups, relations between islamabad and washington are at an all-time low. my next guest is now perhaps the most popular politician in pakistan. imran khan is the legendary former cricket player whose rallies now command crowds in the hundreds of thousands. welcome imran. >> thank you, fareed. >> tell me first what you make of these rumors of coups. there are lots of people in pakistan as you know who are

talking about how the military is trying to prepare the ground for either a soft coup or an outright coup. do you think there is any validity to this? >> fareed, pakistan has moved on. the media, the independent television journals have changed pakistan. this is no longer the old days where the military could walk in. the level of political awareness in pakistan is such that across the board, this consensus that military dictatorship or military governments are not the answer because now we have a history of military dictatorships. and it's like curing cancer with disparin. the problem eases for a while and then the cancer spreads much more. so i don't think there's any chance of a military coup. >> but what about the way in which the military is taking on the civilian government. we have people say that the

courts are acting in support of the military. they've -- they're attacking the prime minister. there's this case relating to memogate. there seems to be a kind of concerted effort to weaken the civilian government. >> you know, fareed, the biggest enemy of the government is the government itself. it is the worst government in the history of pakistan. it is the most corrupt, the most incompetent government ever. i mean, according to the government survey, the economic survey of pakistan, which is a government report which is published, never has the situation of pakistanis been as bad as it is today. there's an unprecedented inflation. there's unemployment. there's no gas. there's no electricity. factories are closing down. s there lawlessness. corruption has broken all records. so if the people are turning

against the government or if the government feels beleaguered, it's not because of either the army or the supreme court. in fact, people like us think that the supreme court is too soft on the government. remember, this is the only independent supreme court ever in our history. and the way we have an independent chief justice is because people came out in the streets. it was our equivalent to the arab spring where masses came out and supported the chief justice. he was reinstated once. then again he was kicked out. again, people rallied behind the chief justice. now what we expected from the chief justice is to check the corruption in high places. in fact, in other words, if people come into government, they start looting the country. you wanted an independent judiciary to check the corruption. so far, the government has stonewalled the supreme court. >> but tell me about the atmosphere in general in pakistan. it seems as though the problem

of a kind of jihadsi groups and terrorist groups remains unchecked. the problem of out-of-control groups within the military. is that picture you think accurate? >> when you talk about the jihadi groups, this war on terror is the biggest producer of jihadis and terrorists. the longer this war goes, the more polarized the society is getting. the more extremism and radicalization is rising in pakistan. and the way to deal with it is to somehow get out of this war. the only way out is a political settlement which, of course, i have been advocating for a long time and which now, of course, the u.s. is trying to have some sort of a political settlement in afghanistan. it's the only way out. you must understand the problem. i mean, the people in the u.s. must understand what's happening here. in the tribal areas, there are million armed men. every man is -- knows how to wield a weapon.

carries a weapon. so there are a million armed men there. now when you do an operation or when the army does an operation and this collateral sdj, what happens? anyone who loses a narrow -- and they do lose them because there are villages that have been bombed through airplanes, through helicopter gunships, through artillery. remember it's not an army they are fighting. these are fighters in villages. so when there's collateral damage, the local people then become militants. so every military operation has produced momentums. >> you say the obama administration has been trying to negotiate with the taliban, but one of the big problems they have had in afghanistan is that the taliban and elements other groups have had the safe havens in north waziristan and so they can always retreat to that sanctuary and, therefore, feel themselves to be invulnerable and don't want to compromise and don't want to negotiate and

don't want to make any concessions? >> the problem with obama administration is that they are stuck -- they are dealing with the pakistani government which unfortunately is a discredited government. if they had a partner in pakistan, a political government credible, only a credible government, not only would be able to pull our army out of the tribal areas, we would be able to help the americans in getting some sort of a peace process going. at the moment, there is no help from pakistan. all we're doing is military operations and we're going nowhere. >> if you were to be prime minister of pakistan what's the first thing you would do? >> the first thing i would do is have a cease-fire. you cannot talk and fight at the same time. either you talk or fight. fighting has failed so i would go for a political settlement. i would have a cease-fire. i would win the people of the

tribal areas, these 1 million fighters i'm talking about, win them over to my side saying it's the end of jihad. cease-fire. fighting is over. these tribal area people will not take on the militants as long as they think they're fighting a jihad in means of foreign occupation. once it's no longer jihad, they will deliver peace in that area. it's in their interest to have peace. this insanity of pushing this million strong man by bombing collateral damage and pushing them to the other side it's so insane, i don't know who is the think tank leading this senseless policy. surely after seven years, there should be some review of this policy and certainly in pakistan and the oil parties conference all 50 parties of pakistan said, give peace a chance. it's time for a political dialog. end of military actions.

>> always a pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. and we will be back. all energy development comes with some risk, but proven technologies allow natural gas producers to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, these technologies protect air - by monitoring air quality and reducing emissions... ...protect water - through conservation and self-contained recycling systems... ... and protect land - by reducing our footprint and respecting wildlife. america's natural gas... domestic, abundant, clean energy to power our lives... that's smarter power today.

monday is the chinese new year and we are about to enter the year of the dragon in the chinese zodiac calendar. that brings me to my gps challenge question of the week. which of the following is not one of the animals on the chinese zodiac? is it a, rooster, b, rabbit, c, pig, or d, panda? stay tuned, we'll tell you the correct answer. go to cnn.com/fareed for it ten more questions. while you're there check out the rest of our offerings on global

public square our website, always fresh content, insight and analysis on what's going on around the world. make sure you follow us on twitter and facebook. please remember if you miss a show, you can now find full video episodes of "gps" for sale on the itunes tv store. want to make sure you never miss one again, subscribe and get ten episodes for less than $10. go directly there typing itunes.com/fareed. this week's book of the week is "strategic kwigs, america and the crisis of global power." the former national security adviser is always insightful with broad and deep observations about history, politics and culture. this book is no exception. it will make you think and think hard. and now for the last look, we know there are no free lunches, but what about free rides? well in indonesia, thrill seekers and free loaders alike, travel into jakarta riding on top of trains. the authorities have been trying

to curb the train surfing scourge for decades. they seem to have come up with a consolution. the state run rail system has installed concrete balls about the size of grapefruits above the rail tracks. he call them gold balls. and the goal is to show fare beaters it doesn't pay to be cheap. there's already been a glitch. turns out officials made the chains too short leaving a gap of about 16 inches between the balls and the passing trains. they say they'll get on the ball soon. the correct answer to our gps challenge question was d, the poor panda, perhaps the most famous chinese animal, does not get a year named after it in the chinese zodiac. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. if we could do anything, what would we really do? what are the things we lack in our city?

what are the things we would like to do but we can't? and then make them happen that's what architecture should be about. >> that's a small window in the mind of the man you're about to meet. he's a young dannish architect named bjarke ingels. his bold ideas are pushing the boundaries of design around the globe including the manhattan skyline. he's not just dreaming up high in the sky prompt projects, he's getting them built. architecture is not about building monuments but creating possibilities for human life. i'm dr. sanjay gupta. welcome to "the next list." in the big picture architecture is the art and science of making sure ha our cities and bui