tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN January 22, 2012 9:00pm-10:00pm PST
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of being a one term president. >> jimmy carter, his peace making work around the world. >> if i had one constant prayer it would be to bring peace to israel. >> his place in history. >> what is the one piece of advice you would give any president when they walk in the oval office the first time. >> tell the truth. >> what he thinks of the state of america's union. >> we are still the greatest country in the world but we have extraordinary problems at the same time. >> this is "piers morgan tonight". jimmy carter was president from 1977 to 1981. his work since then has won praise world wide and a peace prize. tonight i'm privileged to set down with president carter.
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thank you for coming to this center. i love the dates here. so you became president in '77. cnn is launched in 1980. the carter center launched in 1982. the carter center is unusual in the sense that most expresidents went for a big library. just walking around the library is really a small part of it. you have these different areas covering global charities. what was the overwriting concept for the center? >> two things, human rights and all ramifications and also peace. and we have started out just trying to negotiate peace between people. we still do that. i think now about 80% of our total budget goes in curing diseases or preventing diseases that afflict people in africa and latin america.
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we also monitor elections. we just did our 89th election in egypt. we are still going over there. this is a major part of the carter center's work. >> do you feel that you achieved more outside of the presidency than when you were there? >> i couldn't have done these things if i hadn't have been in the white house. it's a much more human, intimate relationship with millions of people. last year we gave treatment to prevent blindness. we have just about eradicated a disease called guinea worm. we have it down to about 1,000 cases. i couldn't have gone to egypt and participated in detailed meeting with all the political
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parties and monitoring election if i had been in the white house. it is a much more personal intimate relationship. >> do you think you get a bit of a bad rap? if you look at thuchievements and the egypt israel treaty and the way you brought america back into relations with china, the most pivotal relationship now that america could possibly have, on those two things alone, pretty big ticks in the box. >> they were. we kept our country at peace. we had a lot of challenges, a lot of opportunities and a lot of advice to start another war. we didn't do that. so we not only kept peace for ourselves and promoted human rights but brought peace to other people and formed alliances. china is the most important one that had been astranged from america. >> this being the most extraordinary 12 months.
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when you look at the middle east and egypt and isreal and surrounding countries. >> we have to remember egypt has about 90% muslims. and for a muslim political party to be elected is no surprised. i think the muslim leadership are very determined to put on a good face for the rest of the world and to show that islamests can govern effectively and fairly. one of the things that is important to realize is that united states is now recognizing the right of parties to form a government. >> when you saw people being deposed after 30 odd years, gadhafi killed and so on, extraordinary times, the kind of
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thing you couldn't imagine five years ago, did part of you celebrate and the other part slightly think what is going to happen now? >> both. there was a celebration because democracy had come for the first time in egypt and some trepidation about the future. a lot of what happens in egypt and indonesia and libya will depend on the attitude of the united states and european countries towards the new government. will we support them and this is the premises that we will support you or try to do away with them because we don't like the leaders who have taken power? i hope we will reach out to them with a friendly hand and let them have a chance to form a good government. >> what should america's role be? >> i think to promote democracy and freedom. that is what has happened in
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egypt. they have a chance for a democrat government chosen by the people and a chance for freedom to have all the hidden rights that go with a free society. in the past we haven't always done that. there was an election in palestine in 2006 in january when the muslim government won. and in advance of that we had supported the candidates. after they won the election we declared that they were terrorists. >> was that a mistake? >> i think that was a serious mistake. i think we would have peace in the middle east. this is what we are now learning in egypt that i think we will do a different path. >> israel is understandbly pretty twitchy about what is going on. showing big countries, saudi
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arabia, egypt. he put his thumb print on israel. he got a sense of the vulnerability they feel. you have been criticized for being more pro palestinian than israeli. do you think naturally you are? >> no. i don't. if i have one constant prayer the last 35 years of my life it would be to bring peace to israel. i know about the holy land. i have taught lessons about the holyland all my life. you can't bring peace to israel without given peace to lebanon and jordan and syria. i think this is an opportunity for the united states and europe to play a role in bringing about peace based on all the international agreements. with some modifications negotiated. >> how much was your view slightly colored by the fact
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that you said he would always refer to any palestinian as a terrorist. >> yes, he did. >> i got a sense that when you heard this repeatedly it was your determination not to portray every palestinian as a terrorist and instead view them in the same eyes. >> when i first went to israel about 15% of the palestinians were christians. they were my friends and soul mates. now they have almost been removed from palestine. the palestinians are human beings like americans and jews. i think they deserve the right to govern their own territory which is palestine. there could be some modification to that as president obama
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pointed out may of last year. israel has to realize that they will never have peace unless they basically withdraw from palestine and have two governments side by side. that is the two state solution, what the international community all endorses. in the word of mouth he says they want a solution. >> the policies are leading to a one state solution which i believe would be a catastrophe to israel. >> to those who feel you don't fully feel their pain of being on the receiving end of the suicide bombings and attacks and so on, what do you say to them? >> last time i was over there i did meet with the speaker of the house and i met with the deputy prime minister and mayor of
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juruse alm. i urge them to realize that israel can be a strong, safe and recognized country if they go back to 67 borders. i love israel. i have been there many, many times. i have many friends there. i think the current policy departs dramatically from predecessors including the most recent. he has recognized palestinian rights to form a government side by side with israel. >> you brought this amazing peace accord. how much of this is done to individual personalities, leaders who just get it? do we have the right people in charge of israel and palestine? are they the people that you could have done business with as
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president? >> when he was the first elected had a terrible reputation as a yes piece against any accommodation. he had been branded by the british government has the number one terrorist in the middle east. he came around because of persuasion by men and because he knew what was best for his own country. and the peace agreement that we worked out, the camp david accords had two major facets. that is no more war. nobody has violated it. the other was equal rights for palestinians and a withdraw by israel from palestine. and the united states agreed to it, egypt agreed to it. that part has not been carried out. i think that is still an integral part of the process.
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i want them to have peace along with peace for their neighbors. we'll come back and talk about three less than peaceful parts of the world. [ female announcer ] women move the world. and caltrate moves us. helping strengthen our bones. caltrate delivers 1200 milligrams of calcium and 800 iu of vitamin d plus minerals. women need caltrate. caltrate helps women keep moving because women move the world. i'm going to own my own restaurant. i want to be a volunteer firefighter. when i grow up, i want to write a novel. i want to go on a road trip. when i grow up, i'm going to go there.
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it is a new world but america should not fear it. it is a new world and we should help to shape it. it is a new world that calls for a new american foreign policy, a policy based on constant decency. >> that is president jimmy carter speaking at notre dame in 1977. very pressing words there. that could almost be a speech making in '09. american foreign policy is being reshaped before our eyes. if you look at the way iraq and afghanistan played out and compare it to libya.
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you can almost see president obama watching your speech. >> that was a different time. that was when america first instituted the real application of human rights. we promoted human rights and transformed -- for instance almost all were dictatorship. because of that policy they became democracies. now, of course, it is a different time. we bring 2011 into history books as a matter of transforming that entire region of the world into a move towards democracy away from dictatorships. >> could that have happened in iraq? >> i certainly think so. if we hadn't invaded iraq which was a horrible tragedy and mistake in my opinion it may have been that iraq would have been one of the first arab countries to fall as the people rose up to replace the
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dictatorship. the fact that it surprised everyone when it happened in libya and egypt, it shows it would have been the candidate for that purpose. >> there are three danger spots for america right now, iran, syria, north korea, traditional danger spots but probably more so now than ever with the change of leadership in north korea, with iran and syria going up in flames. is there a consistent policy that america should pursue with the three? >> they are different but basic principles that should be followed. one is to negotiate as best you can with the people with whom you have differences. north korea is a good example. i went in there in 1994 to help
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prevent an almost certain war. i negotiated with the grandfather and the revered leader and worked out a complete agreement that he would do away with nuclear weapons and have peace with the united states and south korea. president clinton adopted that agreement and put it into effect. when president bush came into office he threw that away in the waste basket. syria, people are rising up, the regime in power, nobody knows how much support they have among their own people. still very abusive and i think the world is very reluctant to go in. much more powerful country. and much more a respected country having been there since ancient times. >> should assad go there? >> i think likely to go in the next few months. i would like to see some effort
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made. russians are now supporting syria, protecting them. i think the russians would come on board if there was an opportunity for a democratic process in syria to be orchestrated, very similar to what we are seeing in egypt where the people will have the right to decide who will be the leaders. and let the people decide. as far as other problems are concerned like iran, there is a regime that i believe is very likely to go to a nuclear weapon capability. they swear that they won't. i don't agree with what they are saying. i think it is likely they will go to a nuclear capability. >> how does america respond if it has concrete evidence? >> i don't think america has that kind of confidence. i don't think that our secret information, our intelgent information leads us to that capability. they have the right and ability
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to go there, not the right to build weapons, but they have the right to purify urannium in order to use it in research and to generate power. i don't know what the truth is. i think we need to do everything we can to deter them. if we cut off iran's ability to export oil and which would face them with the prospect of devastating economic blow then i think that would be an inevitable move to war. >> you deliberately avoided any kind of military conflict with iran when you were president. >> yes, i did. i was advised by many to go to war with iran and bomb them and punish them for holding hostages. >> you think it would have been an error to do that? >> i do. there was no one killed. i was a military officer by
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profession. i was a submarine officer. i know what it means to have a strong military so we can deter people. whenever possible in government i think we should avoid military conflict and do everything we can to negotiate with other people, even if it feels like we are losing faith. do everything possible before we go to war. >> what president obama or whoever wins the next election cannot afford to do is to look weak in the eye of the iranians. at what stage would the american administration have to consider military action? >> i think a real threat against israel, for instance, of an atomic attack. i'm not sure if iranians are going towards a nuclear capability. looking from their point of view at the pressures exerted on them if they do, but it would be
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understa suicidal, say if iran attacks israel they would be wiped off the map. let's take a break and come back and talk about barack obama. so much to discuss. [ woman ] my boyfriend and i were going on vacation, so i used my citi thank you card to pick up some accessories. a new belt. some nylons. and what girl wouldn't need new shoes?
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i want to talk to you right now about a fundamental threat to american democracy. too many of us now tend to worship self indulgeance and consumption. >> that is president jimmy carter delivers his speech in 1979 which didn't go over very well with the american people. you were right then and you would be right to say that today, wouldn't you? >> as a matter of fact the immediate response to that was the most favorable to a speech. later president reagan attacked the speech. >> the reality is americans carried on consuming.
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many of them carried on being self indulgeant and ended up $1 million in debt with a catastrophic melt down. the grass roots were there. >> we had basically a balanced budget when i was in office which was very important for me. since then we have just abandoned those principles. i don't know how we are going to get out of this. >> what are the ways? this is your book. fascinating book. you took these sunday bible teachings you have done for 30 or 40 years. and you put them into an order that made sense. you related many of your own personal stories from your life and presidency. it is absolutely absorbing. i used to have bible teachings when i was young but never linked like this.
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you tell a story about how you grew up on a peanut farm. one question is do you like peanuts. >> i hope everybody will join me in eating peanuts. >> you tell the story about how when you were very young you would get up at 4:00 in the morning and boil the peanuts and you would walk off several miles and sell them to make money. the money you made from that you did something else. and you started selling other stuff. and then you bought property. and you built yourself a little empire. that kind of entrepreneurial zeal is disappearing from modern american youth. i don't blame them. i blame the kind of culture and lifestyle that they are encouraged to lead. what do you think? >> i think the entrepreneurial spirit was important to me as a farm boy on a remote farm who
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didn't know anything about the outside world but was raised with hard work and had nurturing parents. i made the best of what i had. all i wanted to do was go in the navy. >> when president obama makes the state of the union speech next week, would you like to see him do that kind of speech? a direct message to people. we know times are tough. we know unemployment figures are very, very high. we know people are suffering, but the first thing americans should be doing right now is self starting, getting back on their feet, finding ways to make a living, doing the entrepreneurial thing that you did? >> i don't want to tell president obama how to make a speech, he is a much better speech maker than i am. i think always to tell the truth is the best approach. let the american people know the facts as expressed to them very
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clearly and concisely and inspirationally by the president is very good. we need to be told the truth. we are now approaching $15 trillion in debt. if we do everything we are supposed to do in a few years we will be $20 trillion in debt. there is a way to balance, cutting back on expenditures with increased economic opportunity for american people to take advantage. people are set together. i think he will make a good impression. >> how do you think he is doing as president? >> he hadn't been tiebl accomplish very much because he has been stuck by the most incooperative congress we have had in history. i had very good support throughout my administration. i had a very high batting average. we added more jobs per year in
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my four years than any other president since the second world war. we kept the country at peace. we had problems. that is very much due to the fact that we didn't have the negative advertising. >> how do you personally get along with president obama? >> we don't have relationship much. i met with him early in the administration. >> are you sad about that? >> i wish it was a closer relationship. i get a briefing when i ask for it. before i went to egypt last week i got a briefing from the state department about their policy that was to accept the results of election no matter who won which is very gratifying to me. when i go to north korea or some troubled place in the world and come back i always make a report. in fact, monday morning i sent president obama and the secretary of state, hillary clinton a full report on all the people with whom i met in egypt and what my advice was and my impressions were.
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i stay in close contact with them. >> i heard that you felt a little bit let down when the first chance to speak at a democratic convention he asked you to do a film. you were a bit cheesed off with this. >> i was a bit. his people explained the reasons for that. >> were they good reasons? >> for him to get elected, yes. i didn't need the exposure at the democratic convention. i have been out of office for 25 years at that time. i didn't need to make a speech to the people. the four minute documentary was gratifying for me. i did get to wave at the people. i think he wanted to win the election. we had 22 votes in our family, all 22 votes went to president obama.
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one advantage he will have going into next year, i think we will win, by the way, i had a dwoided democratic party which is partially my fault. i had ted kennedy running against me which divided the party. he has been lucky in many ways. i was luckee to get elected and to be able to serve. i have had a much more productive life and a much more gratifying and happy life than i dreamed i would have when i left office. i'm going to talk to you about the republican field. we are down to the last five. the famous five. i want to know what you think. i'd race down that hill without a helmet. i took some steep risks in my teens. i'd never ride without one now. and since my doctor prescribed lipitor, i won't go without it for my high cholesterol and my risk of heart attack.
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this president is the most dangerous commander and chief we have seen since jimmy carter and that is why this election is about the security of our country. >> barack obama is the most dangerous since jimmy carter. i never thought you were that dangerous. >> i didn't either. >> you found peace everywhere you went. >> i kept peace for our country and peace for others. >> when you hear rick santorum
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using you as a stick to banter president obama, what do you think? >> i think he is hurting himself. i got 85% of the votes in georgia, i think to be attacking me before that is a mistake. >> what do you think of the republican race? does mitt romney has it in the bag? >> what happened in south carolina has a major impact. even if another candidate comes in first in south carolina and mitt romney in second i think he will prevail. >> what could prevent president obama from winning? what are the warning signs that you would say watch this? >> as i mentioned earlier, luck has a lot to do with it. the president has very little power over what happens in the
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economy. the congress with their tax laws, the federal reserve on the supply of money. he is just one of the three players that have an equal balance. if the economy improves and he can take credit for it next year i think he will have a much better chance to win. if the economy will go down hill or stay where it is now i think the republican nominee will have a better chance. i think the republicans have taken such an extreme position to appeal to the tea party that they have abandoned the central part of the campaign. i know from experience that both parties now, democrats and republicans will move towards the center as they get into the general election. i don't know what is going to happen next year. this is an exact replicaof your oval office. >> absolutely the way it was.
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same furniture and same carpet. >> that is the exact same scene. >> when you come in here, how does it make you feel? >> it makes you feel at home. i remember the last three days i was president i never went to bed until we negotiated the final release of the hostages. >> jimmy and i used to put a table between the two chairs and meet every week. >> we had a private meeting every week just the two of us.
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mario cuomo was elected governor three times and now his son is governor, too. how are you? >> very well, indeed. >> i was remembering that you were larry king's first ever guest. >> yes. indeed that's true. i was looking forward to meeting you to see what the differences might be. there is a distinct difference in the english. >> that is definitely true. what is your sense for where we really are right now, where president obama is, where the country is, where the economy is? >> it is tough to do that in just a few sentences. we're still the greatest country in the world. we are still the largest economy with all of our problems.
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we are still the strongest military power. we still have the best rule of law and constitution. we have all of those things. we have extraordinary problems at the same time, new problems. i was fascinated by one of the republican candidates who said i think today that the most important election in your lifetime is going to be this upcoming election. >> do you think that? >> i think, no. the most important election, frankly, was 2000 when we elected bush and we got a false war and a huge tax cut that we shouldn't pay for. and some years later a recession. that was the most important
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election. >> do you feel that cumulative effect of those decisions that were taken, going into war, which many felt was a mistake at the time, the tax cuts which were unaffordable, do you think that led america to the precipice it found itself in? >> it certainly helped push it in that direction. i think to understand where we are now, it's helpful to look back to the clinton years because of one thing in particular. the first four years he didn't do very well. the second four years he did sensationally. he wound up after eight years with 22 million new jobs. fewer poor people than ever.
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how did he do it? newt gingrich and he and some others collaborated. that was the big thing about that period. and he left us after eight years with a $1.5 trillion surplus. now, it's important to remember all of that. why? it is important to remember that because it means we can do it again. if clinton can do it we can do it. >> i interviewed newt gingrich and he was talking very warmly about president clinton and the things they did together. he was highlighting the fact that washington this past year has almost fell in permanent paralysis and there is no negotiating that leads to compromise going on. this is bad for the country and selfish of the politicians in washington. >> i don't want to be overly
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partisan here, but it is the republicans who are refusing to collaborate. it is not the president. it may be that this president was born with two great gifts, one is an amazingly significantly excellent mind. and the ability to give a great speech. but he had very little else going for him. he had no experiences in running a group of people and managing, let alone managing the world's most important government. i think it is fair to say that he started with some great gifts, but not the particular gifts that you need to run. that was true of clinton, as
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well. his first four years were not good. >> do you see parallels between where barack obama is now and where bill clinton was after first term? >> i would like to see in obama the traits that will make him successful this time around. i think they have to be looking at the clinton years and learning what you can from that. more generally he should speak the way franken roosevelt spoke and act the way harry truman acted. if you look at the speeches by roosevelt, he never wrote a speech and he had a voice that was magic that you can't imulate. the words were very simple, punchy and communicated very clearly. he didn't need seven foot sentences. and obama has done that
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recently, i think a couple of times. if he keeps making that kind of speech and acts more strongly which he started, as well. >> what should he take from harry truman? >> act. do it. don't talk about it. don't talk about it. do it. he has the republicans in a very interesting position. he didn't do it to them. they did it to themselves. they are in a position that they started by saying we can't cooperate with him. if we cooperate with him it will make him look good and we will not be able to beat him in the race. it was selfish and stupid. what happened now is the people are beginning to figure out, you guys, the jobs cut, the tax
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involved there, you made a good point for the president. and what they are going to start figuring out now that they are near the real campaign is, we have a choice. if we continue not to cooperate he is going to beat us to death with it. he is going to keep coming with his proposals. some of them will be good. we won't be with him. we'll get no credit. they are going to have to decide to cooperate with him to have a chance to win. >> which could help barack obama. let's take a break. i want to ask you what you think of this republican race. who you would least like to see win the republican nomination race. >> that all in one question? all one question. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.
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protestant or a nonbeliever or anything else you choose. >> a portion of then governor, mario cuomo's speech. mario cuomo back with me now. historic time. when you see these republican candidates today using social issues like abortion, like gay marriage and so on to try and in their eyes sure up their base, what do you think? >> i think the question that has to be asked when you get to religion and politics is if you're going to be the president, will you be ruled by the pope or the constitution. and if you can't answer that question correctly then you are talking about religion. i think the first amendment was
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written with a high degree of intelgence. the first amendment of the constitution says we are going to protect your right to have a religion, whatever it is. we are not going to allow the government to make a religion or to influence the religion. and that's first amendment that speaks very clearly. that is what you have to know. it is nice to be a believer, whether you are a jew or an atheist. i mean, atheists believe in values. it is nice to be a believer. you have to get it clear. we have a constitution and that is the ultimate rule. and that can be hard for some people to live with. >> when you look at the republican nomination race, clearly mitt romney has been the front runner in this for a long time now. is it almost inevitable that he will be the nominee? does anybody else have the fire
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power to take him on? >> i am absolutely certain it is not inevitable. my mother who is not terribly well educated, an immigrant with my father, i talked to her once about campaigns and presidential campaign. i asked her in italian who she thinks will win of this group. she said, why are you asking me the question. she said when is the election. she said between now and then a pope will be born. there is -- all you have to do is say the wrong thing. all you have to do is have the wrong issue in your life uncovered, something you had been hiding. there are all sorts of things that can change the mood of the people. >> who do you think of all th
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