something you might call a self-spanking. that's it for this edition of "reliable sources." i'm howard kurtz. join us again next sunday morning, 11:00 a.m. eastern for another critical look at the media. "state of the union with candy crowley" begins right now. >> simmering anti-western sentiment in afghanistan boils over into nearly a week of violent protests and 30 deaths including four americans. today, is it time for the u.s. to go? a conversation with the u.s. ambassador to afghanistan, ryan crocker in kabul. then, gas, taxes and 2012 with obama campaign adviser robert gibbs. >> it's good to be back here in michigan. >> eye on michigan and arizona. republican politics with senators john mccain and lindsey graham. plus their recent trip to afghanistan. then the rapid increasing gas prices. how high and how long with the former ceo of shell oil.

i'm candy crowley. and this is "state of the union." the afghan government says the man who killed two american soldiers inside a highly secured government african building is an intelligence officer. hamid karzai has offered condolences of the families of the four americans killed since news that u.s. personnel apparently inadvertently burned copies of the koran at an air base in afghanistan. karzai called for calm in his country but insisted the u.s. must prosecute those responsible for burning the muslim holy book. joining me from kabul, u.s. achl bass door to afghanistan, ryan crocker. mr. ambassador, let me ask you first, the u.s., over more than ten years, has spent half a trillion dollars in afghanistan, almost 2,000 american lyes have been lost. and the american people wake up this morning to find that two high military officers sitting inside a secured afghan government building were murdered, basically, by someone

who was, you know, freely walked into that building and the burning of the u.s. flags, two soldiers killed in trying to combat these protests. why in the world should not americans be waking up saying we've got to get out of there? >> well, candy, it was a terrible event, strongly condemned by secretary panetta and others. general allen and i are just back from the ramp ceremony for these two fallen heroes in which we saw them off on their last journey home. we all feel it out here. that said, and as president obama said yesterday, we remain committed to a partnership with the afghan government and people as we seek to achieve our shared goal of disrupting, dismantling and defeating al qaeda and strengthening the afghan state. and we're doing that so that afghanistan can never again be the refuge for terrorists who have struck the american homeland. >> i understand that, but the

question is why do we still have this relationship with a government that is either too weak or unwilling to do some of the things we needed to do so u.s. troops can come out? i think it took five days for president karzai to get out there and say to the folks on the street, calm down here. he's demanding the prosecution the military officials. it doesn't seem like the best atmospheric for putting together some of these agreements you're going to need from the karzai government. >> i think we need to bear in mind that the afghan security forces, throughout this whole process, have been seeking to quell these demonstrations. they've done so with loss of life on their side as well as some of the protesters. and they have been defending u.s. installations. so they are very much in this fight, trying to protect us.

and i'd also point out that president karzai's statement today was by no means his first. president obama, in his statement yesterday, after he spoke to general allen, praised president karzai for his calls for calm which he's doing -- been doing almost since the beginning. look, candy. this is hard. i opened this embassy here more than a decade ago. and there was nothing. no institutions. no ministries. no police. no army. no nothing. coming back after almost a decade while the challenges are huge, the achievements are pretty considerable, too. and the stakes, again, as i said, remain high. if we decide we're tired of it, al qaeda and the taliban certainly aren't. >> one of the things that we're told from our reporters in afghanistan is that today's sunday, there were attacks in the north, seven more u.s. personnel were injured. how does this end? this is the sixth day of these violent protests. >> candy, i've seen this kind of

thing before when i was ambassador to pakistan. religious sensitivities run very, very deep in this part of the world. and several times while i was there, we saw countrywide violence. at a certain point, it tapers off. and i think we're all hopeful that the appeal for calm that president karzai made today, and he did so with the backing of the entire political leadership of the country, will create a condition in which this diminishes. there were some tough attacks up in the north. the rest of the country, though, was pretty calm today. >> and yet, mr. ambassador, nato and the u.s. have pulled all their personnel out of the afghan ministries. so basically, you have a situation here where the u.s. is working with the government, but we don't trust the security

inside the ministries of that very same government. we won't put u.s. personnel in there because we don't think it's safe. how do you reach agreements under that kind of tone? >> again, you just keep pushing ahead. the very prudent step that general allen took yesterday mirrors my own. i pulled embedded civilians out of ministries. tensions are running very high here. and i think we need to let things calm down, return to a more normal atmosphere, and then get on with business. and it doesn't mean that we're not doing business now. we are. with both military counterparts and civilian counterparts. again, these are terrible tragedies. and very worthy of the condemnation they have received. this is not the time to decide that we're done here.

we've got to redouble our efforts. we've got to create a situation in which al qaeda is not coming back. >> we have heard over and over again that from various u.s. officials that this was inadvertent. they did not know, in fact, that they were burning the koran when they emptied out a detainee library, essentially. what i'm wondering is, privately, does president karzai accept that this was inadvertent? >> candy, both privately and publicly, president karzai has said he recognizes this was an inadvertent mistake. >> and yet he's calling for the prosecution -- >> this was very early statements. and we have said on our side that there is an investigation under way, and people will be held to account. >> and finally, could i ask you a slightly different note, do

you think that the continuing presence of enemy sanctuaries, particularly farrakhanny, is undermining u.s. strategy in afghanistan? >> well, i think there's no question that the safe havens have been and remain a problem. it's difficult for the afghans and ourselves and our nato allies to decisively defeat an enemy who can take sanctuary and maintain its headquarters in another country. we've been clear about that. we've been public about that. the pakistani government needs to take action for their own sake as well as afghanistan's and ours. >> u.s. ambassador ryan crocker, thank you so much for your time. after the break, president obama seems confident about his re-election chances, but will rising gas prices get in the way? obama campaign senior adviser robert gibbs joins us. and later, secretary of

state hillary clinton emerges in a new interview as the president's biggest advocate later in the hour. i am loving this greek yogurt. i like yoplait. it is yoplait. but you said it was greek. mmhmm. so is it greek or is it yoplait? exactly. okay... [ female announcer ] yoplait. it is so greek.

joining me now is robert gibbs, former white house press secretary and a senior campaign adviser for president obama. re-election campaign adviser, i guess i should say. i want to just continue a little bit in this talk about afghanistan, what's going on there, and play for you something that newt gingrich said on friday. >> candidly, if ha mid cmid kar doesn't feel like apologize, i think we should say good-bye and good luck. we don't need to risk our lives and waste our money on somebody that doesn't care. >> now, i imagine that in a lot of ways, gingrich is voicing what a lot of people are thinking at this point. the koran was burned, we think, inadvertently by u.s. personnel. and in response, four u.s. military personnel are dead, including two sitting in an

office in an afghan interior ministry. doesn't that capture the public mood, like what are we doing there? let's just get out. >> well, i think it's important to understand why we went, and that is to, as ambassador crocker said, make sure that al qaeda doesn't have a safe haven. >> we are told al qaeda is gone. they're in yemen. >> but candy, let's be clear. so they don't have a safe haven for which to plan a terrorist attack like on 9/11 that killed 3,000 americans. we have disrupted and dismantled a large amount of al qaeda's network. as you know and your viewers know, osama bin laden is dead. and what the president is trying to do now is get us to a point where we with hand off the security of afghanistan to the afghans and that we can bring our troops home. i think what he's trying to do now is defuse the tension that's there and, you know, quite honestly, i'm not sure many people are looking to newt gingrich for foreign policy advi advice. if there's a problem on the lunar colony, he'll be among the first we call. >> okay.

there you go. back at him. let me move you to some domestic issues. right now, gas prices. and the president has said, and a lot of economic advisers and gas experts agree, there's very little that a president can do to immediately affect what's going on at the pumps. does the president have anything left in his quiver that he can use to try to bring some of this down? >> well, look. as you mentioned, candy, oil is a global commodity. it is at the whims of a world that is using more and more oil, and because of that demand, pushing the price up. what the president talked about this week is we have to employ an all of the above strategy. we cannot have 2% of the world's oil, use 25% of it on a daily basis, and think that the only thing we can do is drill. about a week or so ago, the president approved more permits to explore drilling in the arctic. we just signed an agreement with

mexico to develop areas in the gulf of mexico that span the two countries' borders. >> but in the immediate -- >> we're doing all that we can because we're using less foreign oil than we have in the past 16 years. and we're drilling more and producing more than we have in the past eight years. >> some of the republicans argue that all those things were sort of set long before the president came to office. >> don't they always say that, candy? >> beyond that -- >> these are the same people that when gas hit a record high in 2008 were blaming george bush. don't look hard for that video because it's not there because there are a series of people that want to tell you that there are very easy magic-bullet solutions to the problems we face. we know that's not true. >> but the president last year when gas prices got high did let loose some of it that's in the central te strategic oil reserves. >> i am no longer in the white house. i know that they're going to look at every viable option. >> on the campaign trail -- and this is a brief sound bite -- i want to play something that

president obama said this week. >> my presidency is not over. i've got another five years coming up. we're going to get this done. >> so you guys sitting back at the re-election thing, it's done. >> look, i'm glad the president thinks we're going to win. i'd be worried if he didn't. but obviously, look, this is going to be a very close election, candy. there's a lot of people working very hard to make sure that the president gets back. >> listen, we asked -- quinnipiac had a poll out, asking do you think president obama deserves to be re-elected, which may be why this five more years may be a little premature. right now 45% -- only 45% of people say yes, he deserves to be re-elected. 50% say no. it really hasn't changed since november. why is that? >> well, look. they're going to be -- there's 100 different polls that will tell you 101 different things, candy. i think virtually every poll that i've seen in the last three months shows you the terrific damage that the republican primary is doing to the

republican candidates. >> their numbers have gone down. >> people like mitt romney are watching their approval ratings and their favorable ratings with independent voters, their unfavorable ratings, skyrocket. you know, in his home state of michigan, a public poll just a week ago showed him trailing the president in what should be a battleground state by 16 points. it's because they're rushing to the right to try to convince conservatives that they're conservative. >> democrats in the dnc and the re-elect have been taking a little time looking at rick santorum. size him up for me as a possible rival to president obama. >> well, look. i think, you know, i don't think tuesday is going to be a clarifying event in the republican primary. i think because of the way delegates are apportioned, this is going to go on for weeks and weeks. and i think he's got a legitimate chance to be the republican nominee. he's clearly somebody who has a very different economic background than mitt romney. he's somebody that is, you

know -- >> mean s he's blue lar. >> blue collar. he's from pennsylvania. he's not worth $250 million, and i assume his wife doesn't have several cadillacs. i think he clearly brings a little bit different challenge. but i will say this. if you look at their economic plans and you look at the economic plan that mitt romney put out this week, in many ways, they are very much similar in the sense that they have tax cut plans that would add trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars to our debts and our deficits. not one of those candidates is serious about controlling government spending. >> so at least you won't have to change your message regardless of who it is. >> it's more of the same from them. >> robert gibbs, senior adviser for the re-elect campaign, thank you for joining us. coming up, the unpredictable primary race. will it go all the way to the convention? senators john mccain and lindsey graham join us. and later mitt romney takes the prize for most creative use of an adorable baby. who else is a winner in our campaign awards? stick around to find out. ♪

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joining me to talk about the state of the republican presidential race as well as the latest developments in afghanistan, former republican presidential candidate and romney supporter, senator john mccain and senator lindsey graham who has yet to pick a horse in this horse race.

thank you, gentlemen, both, particularly after your long trip for joining us this morning. i want to play something for you that jeb bush who, you know, lots of people think he ought to get into the race. here's something he said about the race itself. >> i think, though, it's important for the candidates to recognize, though, that they have to appeal to primary voters and not turn off independent voters that will be part of a winning coalition. >> basically, senator mccain, let's start with you, what jeb bush has said and is saying is that he thinks these candidates have been pushed too far to the right to actually appeal to independents. and we see that in a fallout of the number of independents that have moved back to president obama. have they moved too far to the right? >> well, i think that these continuing debates and the tenor of the debates which have turned into mud wrestling has certainly raised the unfavorables of the candidates. i don't think there's any doubt about that.

and then you throw in these, quote, super pacs where one casino mogul will inject $20 million into a political campaign, most of it in negative campaigning, and it's predictable. and by the way, the united states supreme court's disgraceful decision on citizens versus united has made this possible. the united states supreme court displayed a level of ignorance and arrogance that i don't think is with precedent. >> senator graham, let me put up for our viewers a graphic here. these head-to-head polls. president obama against those in the race. basically, it's president obama, 51%, 52% and everybody in the race right now, santorum, gingrich, romney and paul are all around 43%, 42%. is this not a sign that this

long race and the tenor of this race senator mccain is talking about have come to hurt the republican party? >> i think the number to look at is the president's re-elect number that you were mentioning before. but yeah, primaries, you do bruise people up, and your negatives go up. eventually there will be a one-on-one contest to talk about the president's pathetic budget, the budget he's going to send to capitol hill got no votes this year. it's not going to fare much bettbet er next year. every time it's going to be because of president obama's inaction. from 2012 to 2017, his offshore drilling plan by the obama administration opens up a whopping 3% of offshore drilling, areas that are subject to offshore drilling. and they take off the table 50% of areas already leased for offshore drilling. so this will be a big issue. i like our chances. we just need to get the primary behind us. >> senator mccain and then to you the same question, senator graham, do you -- i know you support governor romney, but do you foresee the possibility of a brokered convention or a knight

in shining armor that comes in next month or the next to kind of wrap this all up? do you see either of those two scenarios, senator mccain? >> no, i don't. could i just mention also the pipeline. once the president canceled the pipeline, the prime minister of canada said they would be selling their oil to the chinese. interesting. i don't see a brokered convention. almost every time there's been contested primaries, people predict it. the system doesn't lend itself to it. i'm confident that mitt will do well on tuesday night in arizona and in michigan and hopefully that will move this process forward so we can concentrate on the real adversary. >> how about new entries in march or april, somebody that can come in that everybody will love? >> no. there are only, i think, ten states left where you can still have your name on the ballot. these things are always talked about, but i have -- the system is really set up so that it almost precludes that entirely. >> senator graham, do you see

any possibility of a brokered convention? and while i have you here, would you like to pick a horse in this horse race? >> well, i appreciate the invite, but no, i don't. if romney had lost michigan and he's not going to lose michigan, that would throw things into the ditch. i think he's going to win both states. and let me tell you, governor romney is a better candidate today because of the primary process. in south carolina, newt beat romney. he beat him bad. he just dominated the state, and he dominated the debates. but by the time florida came around, romney really took it to the field, and he's getting better and better. so the up side of the primary process is our front-runner, mitt romney, really is sharpened his skills, and i think that will pay dividends if he gets the nomination. >> senators, i want you both to stand by. after the break, we are going to turn to afghanistan. the burning of the muslim holy book and the fallout that has followed. afghan president hamid karzai has called for calm, but has the u.s. mission there been jeopardized? and later, secretary of state hillary clinton has some choice words for president obama's critics.

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we are back with senators john mccain and lindsey graham. let me start off, both of you, on the subject of afghanistan. we are now in a situation where

the u.s. does not want its personnel in ministry buildings of the very government that we're working with, the karzai government, because we think it's not safe for u.s. military personnel. how does that bode for these agreements that we need to get with karzai in order for u.s. forces to begin moving out? senator graham. >> well, the strategic partnership agreement that we're trying to negotiate with the afghan government is very important. it's the last card to be played. what we're trying to do is have an enduring political, economic and military relationship. the hope is after 2014 to have somewhere around 20,000 troops, several air bases with special forces units and air power so the taliban can be permanently defeated. afghan security forces will always have the help of the u.s. american military to ensure that afghanistan never fails. this episode with the koran burning is terrible to watch. ambassador crocker has got it

right, keep your eye on the ball. it is very sad that four americans would lose their lives because of an inadvertent burning of the koran. i do my reserve duty in that prison, candy. there is a lot of sensitivity to the islamic religion, but it is a dangerous place. they're not choir boys being held there. and karzai, president karzai, is insisting that we turn over all 3,044 prisoners to the afghan legal system as part of the strategic partnership agreement. i cannot agree to that. the legal system in afghanistan is very immature and porous. and he's also insisting we stop night raids. we're putting afghans in the lead in night raids, but that's how we're capturing and killing these people. it's a very successful military operation. general allen says continue night raids. so i will be backing up allen. we're not going to turn over everybody in that prison to the afghans at this moment. they're not ready for that. but we need the strategic partnership agreement, and this koran burning shows the world in which we live, a world in 2012 where people can lose their

lives because of an inadvertent burning of a holy document. things have to change in the mideast. >> senator mccain, looking at it, i think most americans sort of, as i asked ambassador crocker, they wake up, and there's this inadvertent burning of the koran by u.s. personnel on the base. and then there are riots and protests, violent protests, for six days, and two americans are murdered inside the interior building. can you see why americans go, speed up this withdrawal, and let's get the heck out. it's been a half trillion dollars, 2,000 lives and 11 years. like when it enough enough? >> i can certainly understand the anger and frustration and sorrow that the american people feel. and this is a terribly unfortunate situation there. i also think we have to take the long view, and that is that a strategic partnership agreement. by the way, the original idea for that was senator graham's,

is the way that we can leave afghanistan but in a secure environment and a chance for a democratic government to remain in power. look, they just saw the united states leave iraq completely and iraq unraveling. if we'd have had a strategic partnership agreement there and a residual force which this president did not want, things would be a lot different. they watch what happens in the middle east, and they are starting to make their own arrangements because they have to remain in the neighborhood. and we still continue to have this very looming problem that ambassador crocker pointed out, and that is sanctuary in pakistan for the network, taliban and others. but have no doubt, that if afghanistan reverts to a chaotic situation, you will see al qaeda come back and it again be a base eventually of attacks on the united states of america. >> i have two more countries i

want to cover here, if i can in the couple minutes we have left. senator graham, first to you, i want to talk about egypt which is not allowing i think about seven americans to get out of there because egypt -- the egypt military government has wanted to try them. these are ngo folks, nongovernment organizations, including secretary lahood's son. when will we -- when will this come to some fruition? the administration says we're talking, we're talking. when is this over? >> well, i hope it will be over soon. they're being charged under an ngo law, a holdover law, from the mubarak administration that kind of clamped down on any efforts to spread democracy. the army did not bring this case. it's brought in the judiciary, and it's a politically motivated case with no foundation at all. the ngos have done a great job helping the people. here was the breakthrough on the ground. senator mccain and myself and our delegation met with the muslim brotherhood. they got a large number of votes. they're going to be conservative

islamists. we'll judge them by what they do and not by what they say. while we were there, they issued a statement condemning the fgo law, promised to reform debt -- reform it in the future, and that was a very positive sign because the muslim brotherhood, the largest bloc in the new parliament, basically said they don't like this law. they think it is unjust and unfair. they want to change it. that should give everybody the political cover they need to let our people come home. >> senator mccain, i've got 30 seconds left. i wanted to ask you about benjamin netanyahu who is coming over here next week. i'm wondering whether you believe that the relationship between president obama and prime minister netanyahu is complicating the u.s. longstanding relationship with israel. >> i think so. and i think the prime minister has every reason to be upset. the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff that calls iran a rational country and the national security adviser go to

israel and then leak that they are trying to urge the israelis not to attack iran, that clearly weakens the israelis' position vis-a-vis in a region where they have enemies dedicated to wiping them off the map. i can understand why relations are in very bad shape right now. >> thank you very much, senators, for joining us. after the break, secretary of state hillary clinton on the violence in afghanistan and campaign politics. and "sound of sunday," highlights from the other sunday morning talk shows. and later, will $5 gas be the norm? and what girl wouldn't need new shoes? we talked about getting a diamond. but with all the thank you points i've been earning... ♪ ...i flew us to the rock i really had in mind. ♪ [ male announcer ] the citi thank you card. earn points you can use for travel on any airline, with no blackout dates.

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secretary of state hillary clinton was in morocco earlier today where she sat down with cnn foreign affairs reporter lise labbot to talk about afghanistan and her assessment of the 2012 presidential election. >> president obama's apology has become very controversial. i mean, obviously newt gingrich and others have made this apology part of the campaign, but other experts in afghanistan are saying this apology sends the wrong message. it gives the taliban the excuse to go against us, to help use our enemies against us, and also a lot of these attacks that are

happening against americans, these horrible attacks, seem to be in retaliation for something the u.s. is taking responsibility for. >> well, i find it, you know, somewhat troubling that our politics would inflame such a dangerous situation in afghanistan. i well remember during the eight years of president bush's administration when something happened that was regrettable, unintentional as this incident was. president bush was quick to say, look, we're sorry about this. this is something that, you know, we obviously did not mean to do. that's all that president obama was doing. and it was the right thing to do, to have our president on record as saying, you know, this was not intentional. we deeply regret it. and now we are hoping that voices inside afghanistan will join that of president karzai in speaking out to try to calm the

situation. it's deeply regrettable, but now it is out of hand, and it needs to stop. >> you said yesterday that president obama will be re-elected. it's not -- raised a lot of eyebrows. it's not really the secretary of state to say anything about an election, and it seemed to be kind of a campaign statement. >> well, remember the context of it, you know. i was asked whether the comments in the primary campaign, some of which have been quite inflammatory represented america. and i represent america. and i know what happens in campaigns. i've been there, done that. and i know that things are said that, you know, are not going to be put into practice or policy. but i did think i needed to point that out to the audience. and probably, you know, my enthusiasm for the president got a little out of hand. >> no political juices flowing there? >> well, you know, i'm trying to dampen them down.

i've tried to have them taken out, you know, blood transfusion. you know, occasionally they rear their heads. >> does that suggest maybe going back in at some point? >> no, no. it just suggests that i want what's best for my country. >> more of elise labott can be found on cnn's security clearance blog. now time for "sound of sunday." two days before her state's primary, arizona governor jan brewer revealed her pick for the republican presidential nomination, mitt romney, a guy who's feeling pretty bullish about tuesday's primaries. >> well, i'm planning on winning here in michigan and also arizona. that would be huge if we were able to do that, particularly having come from so far behind here in michigan. so we're planning on winning. we're making -- obviously the momentum is in the right direction. >> and though they rarely find commonality on the campaign trail, romney and rick santorum found a bit of it on the sunday morning talks. president obama's apology to afghans for the apparently accidental burning of the koran by u.s. personnel.

>> we've made an enormous krbs contribution to help the people there achieve freedom, and for us to be apologizing at a time like this is something which is very difficult for the american people to countenance. >> i think it shows weakness. i think what we say is, look, what happened here was wrong. but it was not something that was deliberate. and we are -- you know, we take responsibility for it. it's unfortunate. but to apologize, i think, lends credibility that somehow or another that it was more than that. >> and all that talk about a brokered convention or a knight in shining armor riding in at the last minute to unite the republican party remains the game. chris christie has repeatedly said no as to questions whether he would play that role and has been repeatedly asked and repeatedly said no, but hey, while we're on the subject, what about vice president? >> governor romney were to come and talk to me about it, i'd

listen because i love my party enough and i love my country enough to listen. but i love being governor of new jersey. >> though not as prominent in the republican primary season, democrats are only too happy to cheer for a prolonged and bitter republican battle and happy to show up sundays and sell the obama team's re-election mantra. the president's not perfect, but the alternative is dangerous. >> obama took over the country after it was in a gigantic mess. we were losing 700,000 jobs a month, and now we're on the road to recovery. i think what we're looking at is a reasonable man versus reckless men. and that's really becoming very evident through the republican primaries. >> that's today's "sunday of sunday." up next, the economics and politics of high gas prices. we'll talk with a former oil insider, john hoffmeister, who once ran shell oil. calories or less per serving and are now weight watchers-endorsed. try green giant frozen vegetables with sauce.

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one chance to hunt down the right insurance at the right price. the "name your price" tool, only from progressive. ready, aim, save! grrr! ooh, i forgot my phone! the "name your price" tool. now available on your phone. get a free quote today. joining me, john hofmeister, former ceo of shell oil.

he heads up up nonprofit citizens for affordable energy which is really not at the moment affordable. i want to talk about gas prices. and first show our listeners where it is. right now the national average for gasoline is $3.67 a gallon. that's just the national average. there are many places where it's selling for $5 a gallon. so let's start out with some basic questions. how high is it going to go? >> well, my concern is that the crude oil price could hit $120, $130 a gallon. it's $109 today. that's up about $10 just in the last two weeks. and it's going to get worse, candy. because what has changed dramatically from before, and nobody talks about it, are the actual statistics of china's demand. ten years ago, 4 million barrels a day. last year, 9 million barrels a day. by 2015, 15 million barrels a day. >> so they're competing in the world market for oil, which

naturally -- or will be -- which naturally drives up the price of oil. >> they have played their ace on us. what they have done, they have granted loans, $120 billion in loans in the last three years alone, to state-owned oil companies so they get first oil. that oil's not going to come on the global trading market. our demand -- our demand is down 6% year over year, and prices are skyrocketing. it's going to stay that way. and it could get worse in 2014, 2015 as well. >> can you translate $120 per barrel per oil, crude, or $130 into a price at the pump? >> in the more expensive states like california, new york and some other places, it could get, you know, beyond $5 a gallon. i don't know if the national average would get to $5, but it could. because in addition to the crude oil price, there are three refineries closing. that's going to put the states in even greater jeopardy of

having to bring in high-cost imports from elsewhere because these refineries are closing because they can't make money. what we need is a fix-it plan. >> and let me ask you how long you think these prices will stay elevated. i know it's very early. usually prices go up in the summer because demand is higher, et cetera. but how long do you think these high prices, 4 or $5 a gallon will last? >> in 2011 we paid the highest average price throughout the year in our history. 2012, we'll beat that average price of 2011 by some factor. 2013 could get even worse. and so we really have to get on with fixing the problem. and i would take four different steps. one, we use 20 million barrels a day every day in a full economy in this country. we only produce 7. we used to produce 10. let's go back to 10. we know how to produce 10. we have the oil to produce 10 for decades to come. two, pay attention to what the u.s. energy security council is talking about, which is turn our natural gas into methanol and

ethanol with flex fuel engines. that could deliver 4 million to 5 million gallons per day equivalent. we're now at 15. if we then use higher efficiency vehicles to save two, we're at 17 equivalent. and if we use oil that's in canada and mexico, 3 million barrels a day, we're at 20. we could tell opec to take a hike. and that's what we should be doing in this process. how long would it take? between now and 2020. we could be on our way. and that could well be an all in, all of the above-type plan. the president hasn't been specific. we have to get specific about it. we've got to stop the blame game from happening. and the people who represent the citizens of this country have got to get their act together because we could be in gas lines in addition to high prices if we don't fix this problem. >> let me play for you something that secretary geithner said earlier this week about what the administration might or might not do. >> there's a case for the use of

the reserve in some circumstances, and we'll continue to look at those and evaluate that carefully. >> talking about the strategic oil reserve, which the president tapped into last year. it's supposed to only be there for sort of national security reasons, but nonetheless presidents are known to tap into it for high gas price reasons. how much would that help if he let loose some of that oil? >> very little. because you can't take the reserve down far enough without jeopardizing national security. and just 1 million or 2 million here and there, it's not going to make a big difference. people should not underestimate that right behind china is india. they're going from 4 million to 7 million barrels a day demand. that's 10 million barrels day and we need to be getting to 96 or 98 million barrels. that's the big problem. it's a game of math. and even if we're using less and paying more, we're headed for gas lines, that's not good for the economy. i worry about the future of the economy under this high-price

scenario. >> right. because high gas prices always undermine the economy. >> exactly. >> thank you so much, john. always appreciate your time. after the break, roll out the red carpet because we're bringing you the winners of d.c.'s oscars. but first, this honorable mention for best cameo in a political speech. he is not running for office. we don't even know his name, but you can call him the sleeper candidate.

with a nod to tonight's academy awards, we pulled political gold from the past year for this week's campaign trail. the envelope, please. most aggressive campaign for the cool vote. john huntman. >> governor romney who called it a fraud in his book "no apology," i don't know if that was written by kurt cobain or not. i want to be the president who embarks on a grateful deadlike concert tour around this country. >> best impression of a stand-up comedian, mitt romney. >> the gap between his promises and his performance is the largest i've seen -- well, since the kardashian wedding and the promise of till death do we part. my son had a motorcycle which i

would ride on occasion, rarely. >> could you get on that? >> no. i'd put on a helmet maybe, dukakis style. >> for best choreography, hands down, michele bachmann. here busting a move with iowa supporters. it's been rumored she was joining "dancing with the stars," but darn it, she denies it. most ironic campaign moment. newt gingrich. >> pleased to find yourself using one word and one word only. >> cheerful. >> best debate exchange. ron paul and rick santorum. >> he's a fake. >> i'm real. i'm real. >> congratulations. >> thank you. >> maybe that explains why ron paul was the resip yentd of one of the most passive aggressive handshakes of the campaign. most overused campaign catchphrase, say it with me. >> 9-9-9.

9-9-9. >> the plan's so fine, they named it 9-9-9. >> i thought it was the price of a pizza when i first heard about it. >> best single moment to bring down a campaign belonged to rick perry. >> i would do away with education, the -- >> commerce. >> commerce. and let's see. i can't. ed thie irthird one, i can't. sorry. oops. >> best unintentionally funny campaign ad, herman cain and his chief of staff. ♪ i am america ♪ one voice united we stand ♪ i am america >> and best parody of an unintentionally funny campaign ad goes to cain's number one fan. stephen colbert. ♪