we'll all be ruring out to see "jersey shore the movie" or "growing pains" in 3d many i'm already getting growing pains just thinking about this. come on, hollywood, move forward, not back. have your own ideas, you can do it. tomorrow night, krp condition's team join me for live results of the illinois primary. that's all for us tonight. "ac 360" starts right now. piers thanks, it's 10:00 here on the east coast. good evening, everyone. we begin keeping them honest going into the illinois primary. rick santorum is making the case that a win tomorrow could be the beginning of the end for front runner mitt romney. that it would pierce romney's bubble of inevitability as he calls it. it would pave the way for a santorum nomination. today campaigning ronald reagan's hometown, rick santorum billed his campaign as the

second coming of reagan '76. >> and reagan ran that insurgent campaign in 1976, and people were saying, why don't you get out of the race? you have no chance of winning. and he fought. he won 11 states in 1976. i might add just parenthetically, that if we happen to win illinois, that will be the 11th state i've won in this election. >> keeping them honest, ronald reagan did lose in 1976. but his spokesperson believes in a different outcome in 2012. they put out a memo called santorum path to delegate victory. and the candidate has been promising victory for weeks. >> we're doing great. we're in this race. we're in it to stay. we have won in the west, the midwest, and the south. and we're ready to win across this country. we feel very good that we're in a position to still win it right out. and if we have to go to an open convention, we like our chances just as well.

we are going to win this nomination before that convention. well, obviously, we're in this to win. we're going to come out with illinois and a huge surprise win. i guarantee you that we will win this nomination. >> here's where it begins to fall apart. governor romney has a 2-1 advantage in delegates so far. and a new poll shows little sign a santorum victory tomorrow in illinois, instead suggesting a romney blowout. polls can end up being wrong though. assuming the complete opposite, assuming a santorum landslide which would be a stunning psychological blow to the romney campaign, there is little chance for santorum to gain much ground in the delegate count. that's because of the 54 district level delegates up for grabs tomorrow. the santorum campaign only managed to take the proper steps to qualify for 44 of them. he's already leaving 10 delegates on the table, about 18% of the total no matter what happens.

by our calculations, he'll have to take 70% of the delegates tomorrow and in every single race after tomorrow to get the 1,044 needed for a nomination. in a moment we'll bring in alice stewart from the santorum campaign to make her case. but first john king is at the wall with the numbers. >> let me echo what you said. shortcomings in illinois tomorrow leaving delegates on the table. he didn't make the ballot in virginia. santorum had the same problems in ohio and tennessee. if two months from now we're still having this discussion, they may regret the organizational shortcomings. let's look at here and now, as we sit tonight, governor romney in puerto rico, he gets 519. that's not quite halfway, but he's much closer to the 1,144 it takes to win. santorum is in second place well behind romney. illinois is lit up on the map for tomorrow. i'm going to give you a good case in what many would be an over-generous case for santorum going forward.

i won't make you go through every state. let's jump to the head of the process. if santorum won everything -- won everything, anderson, from here on out, governor romney is getting some of the delegates along the way, governor romney would not get the nomination. he would be shy. santorum would be in second place. under this scenario, he could say i stopped mitt romney in the last 20 contests. i'm the guy with momentum, then he would have a strong argument. however, you just mentioned the illinois poll, most people think that's not going to happen. hard for most people to see. hard to see him take new jersey. i'm giving him north carolina here. i'm giving him west virginia, i'm giving him indiana. romney campaign people are watching at home saying no way. this is a hypothetical to be generous to santorum. here's a huge one in the west. california. most romney people say we don't have the organization, the resources to take california. just gave a few states back to governor romney including illinois tomorrow, look what happens, governor romney clinches in this scenario.

that would be enough. and there's still other states the romney campaign thinks it might beat santorum in his home state of pennsylvania. that's an april contest. we'll have that conversation in a few weeks. under this generous scenario, governor romney still clinches. senator santorum comes up short, he's still in second place. if i could give him california. look at that. if i gave senator santorum under this scenario. right at the finish line. just a little bit over. so even if senator santorum somehow stuns us in illinois tomorrow, he would have to run the map. as you noted, currently he's winning 20% of the delegates. so far, of all the delegates allocated, he's won 20%. he needs to win 70 to clinch the nomination. he would have to win 60-plus to deny governor romney and go to the convention with an argument. maybe alice wants to play with the math a bit. >> no doubt. i want to bring in alice stewart. thanks for being on the program. you heard john king say he would have to win over 70% of the delegates to clinch the nomination. 1245 realistic? do you believe that's going to happen? >> we're optimistic at the way the map will play out for us.

i'm not disputing john. he is the undisputed heavyweight champion when it comes to counting these delegates. but we have counters looking at this differently. and the difference now stands at around 124 delegates. also have to factor into the equation there are many bound and unbound delegates out there on the table. typically as you know, those will go to the more conservative candidate. not a moderate like mitt romney. we're also looking at it. john is looking at the numbers from straight on. we're looking at the possibility and the very likely scenario that we're looking at states like florida and arizona. we'll do away with the winner take all strategy of all the delegates going to the winner and do with a proportional allocation of the ballots. also in iowa and missouri we're banking on the fact that they will look at the ongoing contests, not just the initial beauty contest. and with that it narrows the gap between us and romney. has us about 124 behind.

while it will be very difficult, it's certainly not impossible for someone to achieve 1,144 prior to tampa. >> john, does that map make sense to you? >> alice is a friend and i respect her opinion. no because you're asking for so many things to happen. in this wacky year we've lived through is it possible? sure. but essentially, you're asking for some of the states that have already voted to go back and redo their rules. you're asking for the unpledged delegates. many of them are members of congress and the like of that. if they were going to come to senator santorum's way my question would be why haven't they done so already? alice has a point, if he goes into the convention with a lot of momentum, that would change things. they made a huge risk to go down to puerto rico and paid the price for it. polling shows him down 14 points in illinois. if santorum can surprise us in illinois, we can have this conversation. the challenge for santorum or speaker gingrich, they have to start beating governor romney in the places that he is favored like illinois.

and they don't just have to beat him, they have to beat him by a lot. to get the delegates. you have to beat him 70-30 or 60-40 to make up the math. is it impossible? no. is it improbable? yes. >> alice, let's talk about the idea of a brokered convention. senator santorum brought that up today. if he ends the delegate hunt in second place, why would he be the party's choice in an open convention? why wouldn't they side with the voters and choose the candidate with the most delegates even though it fell short of the required 1,144? >> for the very reason we're here. while mitt romney has more money, name i.d., and longer time in running for president, he is not energizing the base. he is not sealing the deal. he shouldn't be up against the ropes like he is rick santorum who doesn't have the money and the name i.d. that mitt romney has. but he is. and as we get to the convention, as we said, and john agrees, there's more of the grassroots, conservative base of the party, they'll be the ones at the convention, and they'll rally behind the conservative candidate, not the moderate

candidate we have in mitt romney. and that's what we expect to happen at the convention. >> the conventional wisdom has been that gingrich and santorum are splitting the conservative vote. if you look at this poll that asked gingrich supporters who they would vote for if he bowed out of the race, 40% said mitt romney. doesn't that spell trouble for your candidate? if and when gingrich drops out. or if they get to a convention. >> there are a lot of polls along that very line. and many of them show a majority of the gingrich supporters would come to rick. and what we're also seeing is what we're calling for. the conservatives, the tea party, the grassroots of the party to rally behind the candidate in rick santor pump we're not asking by any stretch of the imagination for gingrich to get out. we're asking for conservatives to rally behind rick. certainly we can take mitt romney head on. we're looking for this to be a two-man race, which it will be sooner rather than later. we will see that rick will

energize the base. and he certainly is the person to take on mitt romney. with mitt romney we take the key issues off the table. we take obama care off the table, we take cap and trade, the wall street bailouts, those issues are off the table. we can't go head to head with barack obama with the important issues of the day not being able to be discussed. >> john, briefly, the polls in illinois right now. where are things looking? >> right now in illinois you showed the one off the top romney had a 14 point lead. 44-30. santorum has generally overperformed his poll numbers. i go into tomorrow having i lived through the last few months saying, let's let the voters vote. advantage romney going in. the short-term calendar, the state of louisiana, that's a battle ground santorum should be able to win. then the map tends to favor romney. the challenge for santorum is to surprise us tomorrow if he's going to have a feasible chance. then when you move on to places like maryland, he needs a big win in louisiana. he needs to have a huge win next

month in his home state pennsylvania. it's not impossible, it's just that he's won 20% of the delegates so far. what is going to lead us to believe he can get 70% to take it to the convention. that's why we count the votes every tuesday and beyond. >> and we will do that tomorrow night. alice stewart, appreciate you being here. john king as well. stay with us tomorrow night as republican candidates slug it out in illinois. our coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. eastern with "erin burnett outfront." 8:00, a live edition of 360. john king will join us for that as well. the entire cnn political team will be on at 10:00 for another live edition of "ac 360." let us know what you think right now. we're talking a lot on twitter now about the trayvon martin case. the 911 tapes of martin being shot have been released. the unarmed teenager who was shot dead by a neighborhood watch captain. do those tapes cast real doubt on the shooter's claims of self-defense? we'll talk to trayvon martin's father and the family attorney and our legal team next.

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keeping them honest tonight. the killing of 17-year-old trayvon martin, shot dead by an armed neighborhood watchman named zimmerman. he's yet to be charged with anything. in the words of the local police chief quote, we don't have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense. keeping them honest, from everything we've heard today, there is something. 911 tapes of the incident. they show that zimmerman did not

flee or stand his ground. but that he pursued trayvon martin with a 9 millimeter pistol. martin was on his way back to his dad's fiance's condo. to watch the nba all-star game. he was not armed. he was carrying a bag of skittles and iced tea. he was wearing jeans, white sneakers, and a hoodie. as we mentioned, we have 911 tapes of the incident which we've kept in sequence, but edited for time and the appropriate content. they start with george zimmerman's call from his car near the gates. >> this guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something. it's raining and he's just walking around looking about. >> okay is this guy white, black, or hispanic? >> yeah. now he's coming towards me. >> okay. >> he's got his hands in his waistband. and he's a black male. something's wrong with him. yep. and he's coming to check me out. he's got something in his hands.

i don't know what his deal is. >> okay let me know if he does anything. >> can you get an officer over here? >> yeah, we've got them on the way. let me know if this guy does anything else. >> okay. these [ bleep ] they always get away. >> well, what trayvon was doing was heading back to where he and his father were staying. his family says he may have been listening to music on his iphone and not even aware zimmerman was watching. they claim zimmerman pursued trayvon. and as can you hear in the 911 tape, zimmerman admits it. >> are you following him? >> yeah. >> okay. we don't need you to do that. >> okay. >> in fact, dispatchers told zimmerman not to even get out of his car. police, they said, were on the way. that advice was for zimmerman's safety and trayvon martin's. zimmerman could have stayed where he was, stood his ground and as long as he reasonably believed his life was in danger, he could have shot in self-defense. but as you heard there, he

apparently didn't. he followed trayvon martin. and about 1 sao yards away from where trayvon was going to meet his dad confronted him. the moment is captured in another 911 call this from a neighbor who hears shouting outside. >> okay is it male or female? >> it sounds like a male. >> and you don't know why? >> i don't know why. i think they're yelling help, but i don't know. just send someone quick please. >> does he look hurt to you? >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what's going on. >> they're sending. >> so you think he's yelling help? >> yes. there's gun shots. >> you just heard gunshots? >> yes. >> how many? >> just one. he just said he shot him. yes the person is dead lying on the ground. >> just because he's laying on the ground -- >> oh, my god. >> trayvon martin died of a gun shot wound to his chest.

george zimmerman is free while state authorities decide what to do next. shortly before air time, i spoke with trayvon martin's father and the family's attorney. mr. martin, first of all, i'm so sorry for the loss your son. when you hear these 911 calls, what goes through your mind? what do you think? >> it's heart wrenching because those were my son's last words. and to hear his last words being cries of help is devastating. it tears me apart. >> you have no doubt that's his voice crying for help? >> i'm sure that that's his voice. i'm positive that's his voice. >> police say this man zimmerman had blood on the back of his head, his face. have they said anything to you about how it got there?

if it was his blood or your son's blood? have they given you details? >> they told me that it was an altercation. between the two individuals. but the details, they didn't give them to me. >> as you know, the father of zimmerman gave a statement to the orlando sentinel. he said the media reports of the events are imaginary at best. at no time did george follow or confront mr. martin. when the true details of the event become public everyone should be outraged by the treatment of george zimmerman in the media. he's saying he did not follow your son. but clearly in the 911 calls, the police say are you following him and he says yes. and the police say we don't need you to do that. >> exactly. george zimmerman's father is -- i guess he's being a father trying to protect his son. obviously, he hasn't heard the

911 tapes. and if he did, he must have heard a different version than what the world has heard. >> mr. crump, in your dealings with the police, with the local police, do you think they have investigated this fully? do you think they have taken this seriously? >> i don't. i don't, anderson. i think from day one they didn't. and those 911 tapes tell a big part of the story. but it doesn't tell the whole story. for instance, they get to the scene, trayvon is dead on the ground. and they don't even run a background check on the person who killed him. but number one, if it was trayvon martin who was the trigger man, they would have arrested him day one, hour one on the spot. he would still be in jail right now. >> you have no doubt if it was

trayvon martin who had shot a white person that trayvon martin would be in jail. that if it was any african-american who had shot a white person, that person would be a suspect and in jail? >> absolutely, anderson. they could say self-defense all they want. they would still be arrested and put in jail. i have to say this one other point, anderson. and that is if trayvon martin was white, don't you think they would have ran a background check of george zimmerman no matter what he said? >> mr. martin, let me ask you. one of the things when i heard that 911 tape that immediately got my attention is one of the earliest things mr. zimmerman said. he says this guy looks like he's up to no good or on drugs or something. he's a black male. something's wrong with him. he's coming to check me out. so the idea that mr. zimmerman thought there was something

suspicious about your son. your son was wearing white sneakers, jeans, and a hoodie which i have to tell you, i wear that every single day of my life when i'm not on camera. and i don't think anybody even if they didn't recognize me would have said i look suspicious and i was wearing the exact -- i wear the exact same thing your son was wearing. to you is that just a matter of race? >> i think it's a matter of profiling. which i think that's an issue that mr. zimmerman himself considers as someone suspicious. a black kid with a hoodie on, jeans, tennis shoes. but as you said, thousands of people wear that outfit every day. so what was so suspicious about trayvon that zimmerman felt as though he had to confront him? >> well, mr. martin, again i'm so sorry for your loss. the words seem hollow.

but we'll continue to focus on this. i appreciate you talking tonight. and mr. crump as well. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> let's dig deeper now. with legal analyst sunny hostin and jeffrey toobin. jeffrey, you say this case just makes you want to scream? >> this is a 17-year-old kid who went to buy skittles and came back dead. that's what this is about. however, florida law is so peculiar and so protective of people who shoot people that i am not surprised that zimmerman has not been arrested and i'm not sure he's going to be arrested. because i think the law is basically an invitation to use deadly force under basically any circumstance. it allows disproportionate use of force. it says that you if you feel threatened, reasonably threatened, even without a gun,

can you use deadly force as a response. >> even if you've gotten out of your vehicle? >> even though it's a robust law and probably the broadest law out there, bottom line is there's always that exception. if you are the first aggressor and pursuing, you can't use this self-defense claim. this is so clear. had this been in any other jurisdiction, he would have been arrested and charged with a homicide. >> well, i think that's -- i don't know. the problem here is, we don't know what happened between the 911 call, where he says stay away. and the altercation. >> right. >> i mean, that's a lot of time. >> trayvon martin's father is sure that's his son calling out for help. that hasn't been confirmed by witnesses at this point. >> how they wound up next to each other is not clear. >> well, it's clear he pursued him. >> he said he did. he said he was going to. >> but he also claims the 911 tape that martin is approaching his car. >> right. >> but he runs away. because zimmerman says on that tape on one of them he is running. he's running away. and that's what we tell our kids all the time.

stranger danger. you run away. i tell my son that. if somebody's approaching you, you feel unsafe, you run. he did the right thing. >> identified this guy as a neighborhood watch person. we have no idea. >> that's why -- i mean, it's important to reserve judgment for awhile and let an investigation go forward. this was a residential neighborhood. there could have been people that saw what went on here. >> but it's been a month. this happened february 26th. i think in any other jurisdiction with the same set of facts, perhaps with a different race attached to the parties, there would have been an arrest. it's flooring me. >> a young male with a hoodie and white tennis sneakers. this is what i wear every day. if it was a white male in his neighborhood, would zimmerman been saying this person looks like they're on drugs? and suspicious? >> i doubt that. >> the lawyer said if trayvon had been the shooter, is there any chance in the world he would not be in custody? the answer is no.

but i just think -- i've been looking into this today. there are a bunch of florida deaths where someone with a gun shot an unarmed person and as a result of the stand your ground law, there was no prosecution. >> and that is true, but the exception of the first aggressor still stands and applies in florida. i can't believe that the investigators are saying that there's nothing to dispute the self-defense claim. >> do you hope there will be an arrest? >> i hope there will be. >> i just don't know. i hope we learn more about the circumstances. because there's a lot we don't know. and this is -- i mean, it's just a sickening story. because this young kid is dead. >> carrying skittles and iced tea. >> that's right. and he was unarmed. clearly. >> sunny, appreciate it, jeff toobin, we'll continue to follow this. former miss miss governor

haley barbour is speaking out about his pardons. what he's saying? we'll keep him honest. next. you were there the day the priceline negotiator went down in that fiery bus crash. yes i was. we lost a beautiful man that day. but we gained the knowledge that priceline has thousands and thousands of hotels on sale every day. so i can choose the perfect one for me without bidding. is it hard for you to think back to that day? oh my, this one has an infinity pool. i love those they just... and then drop off, kinda like the negotiator.

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tonight former mississippi

governor haley barbour is finally speaking out about his controversial pardons. we've been asking him on the program for weeks. we asked him again today. yesterday for the first time in weeks he addressed the pardon situation. here's what he said when asked if it was a mistake not to consult victims and their families before issues a pardon. >> the family that complains the most in 2010, came and met with my lawyers about this, because they knew if this man successfully completed his time, he had zero infractions in the 19 years he was in the p penitentia penitentiary, he had been a minimum security prisoner for years, as were all of these guys. but they were told by my lawyers if this guy successfully completes, he's going to get pardoned. and if they had complained to me, it wouldn't have changed anything. this last set of inmates, they had been incarcerated an average of 20 years. no judge could look 20 years

down the road and say that one is going to be okay and that one's going to still be bad. that's why we have the power of pardon. because we really do believe in second chances for people who get rehabilitated or redeem themselves. >> one of the inmates who barbour says has redeemed himself is this man david gatlin. in 1993 he shot and killed his estranged wife tammy gatlin, while she was holding their 3-year-old son. the ellis family says they were never consulted about the pardon. gatlin also shot his wife's friend walker. randy, when barbour quotes the family who complains the most, you think he's talking about you? >> definitely. and, you know, i'm a grown man. i'm perfectly willing to take responsibility for everything i say. he doesn't need to say the family. my name is randy walker. the walker family is complaining the most because we're outraged.

and we're not ready to roll over and die. >> he says while you've met with lawyers, you said yes you met with a lawyer but the issue of pardons never came up. >> no, the issue pardons didn't come up at that point. we were talking to one his lawyers named lucien smith. we met with him in april 2010. what we discussed was in the department of corrections inmate handbook, it says clearly no inmate convicted of murder or serving a life sentence is eligible to be a trustee. that includes the governor's mansion. so we met with lucian and asked what to do to remove the trustee status. and that's what we talked about. it was a short meeting. he referred us to christopher epps, the director of the mississippi department of corrections. we had a meeting with him. i think you have documentation and letters that went back and forth between the attorney we had helping us write letters and stuff like that. you can see what we talked about was trustee status. not a pardon.

>> so is barbour lying or mistaken? what's going on, when he says you were told that gatlin would be pardoned if he successfully completed the trustee program? >> we were never told that david gatlin would positively be pardoned at the end of governor barbour's term. the only time a pardon ever came up was after we had gotten that last letter. i think you got there that's from july from david scott saying that the trustee status wouldn't be revoked. then we started pursuing phone calls trying to see the governor about maybe stopping the pardons or whatever so we could get our say in. >> right. >> but our focus at that point was just to get the trustee status revoked. >> when you hear the governor say, if you had complained to him, it wouldn't have changed anything, how does that make you feel? >> if you go back and look at the timeline, anderson, he thinks because he didn't attend any of these meetings, he doesn't know what was discussed.

he's kind of shooting from the hip, and his facts are grossly incorrect. you know, he's just -- no, i wouldn't say -- i don't think he's lying. i just think he's confused. i would like him to name the lawyers, plural, we met with and i'd like you guys to interview them. >> we'd like to do that. all along he has said, look. these are crimes of passion. and therefore we believe in redemption and our experts say these people aren't likely to commit another murder like this. all the experts we have says just because someone commits a crime of passion doesn't indicate anything. frankly, from what i know mr. gatlin did you, and to his wife, this wasn't a crime of passion. >> no. it's far from a crime of passion. when somebody's looking at you and following you around the night before. then you're not where he expected you to be the next morning so he hunts you and finally finds you.

then he stops himself and buys fireworks to cover up the sound of gunfire, he had plenty of time to stop. he spent the night in mississippi that night. there's just so much stuff here that's premeditated. and for haley barbour to say that there's nothing i could say to him that would change his mind, what if -- and i haven't been. i want to say this as just a what if. but what if david had contacted me some way and said the day i get out of jail on this pardon, i'm going to kill you and your family? now, you think if i hadn't been able to get to a meeting with governor barbour that would not have changed his mind? he can't say nothing would change his mind because he didn't give me a chance. >> we also reached out to lucian smith, the attorney, without any discuss on that. randy walker we'll continue on this. we appreciate you coming in. thank you, sir. >> thank you. it's a win for us already because tonight there are no

governor -- trustees at the governor's mansion. >> that's a big change. it's been a long time. that's a long tradition there. again, randy, thank you very much. we're going to continue to follow that. isha sesay has a 360 bulletin. >> moving closer to the center of power. fierce fighting between rebels and government forces broke out today in a damascus neighborhood that's home to security buildings and top aids to assad. at least 34 people were killed across syria today. southwest france is on high security alert following a deadly shooting today at a jewish school. a gunman on a motorcycle pulled up to the school and opened fire killing one adult and three children before speeding away. frightening moments, passengers on a cruise ship along the vietnamese coast,

collided with a container ship in heavy fog. this animation details how it occurred. passengers said they were knocked off their feet but oregon there were no reports of injuries. both ships have sustained quite a bit of damage. and anderson, in england, catherine the duchess of cambridge was at a hospice for children praising the staff for the work they do. there you have it. your roundup of royals news. >> thanks very much. we've got a 360 investigation tonight. tax refund fraud. stealing billions every year from unsuspected victims. you could be one them. see how identity thieves are getting away with it right now, next. [♪...] >> announcer: with nothing but his computer, an identity thief is able to use your information to open a bank account in order to make your money his money. [whoosh, clang]

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it's happen ago cross the country. some police departments say the irs isn't doing enough to stop it. randy kaye investigates. >> this is a known gang member. >> put your hands on the car. >> we've just rolled up on what police say is evidence of one of the biggest and easiest frauds in america to pull off. a crime hidden on a piece of plastic. a debit card. >> he's got the cards. he just purchased them it looks like. >> those debit cards, police say, are used to take advantage of fast tax refunds from the irs. here's how it works. the thieves are stealing those refunds by stealing people's social security numbers from insiders at hospitals, doctor's offices, even car dealerships. any place where you have to give your personal information. they then use the stolen information to go online and file a tax return making up the income the person earned for the year. the irs then puts the money on a

doesn't card purchased by the thieves. >> this is what they're buying. see, green dot money cards, target. he went to target and spent 600 bucks. and he paid with a debit card. >> what'd you get? a thousand dollars for christmas in gift cards? >> the man they pulled over who is already facing identity theft charges is part of the money avenue gang which specializes in this kind of fraud. not surprisingly, he's in no mood to talk. >> i'm curious what you do for work that you drive such a fancy car. >> i don't know nothing about that. >> you don't know nothing about that? can you tell me if you know anything about identity theft happening around here? >> i don't know nothing about nothing. >> any tax fraud? >> i don't know nothing about nothing. >> the detectives of the north miami beach florida police department will later charge him with buying these gift cards with stolen tax return money.

police say here's the same guy on video at target using a debit card in someone else's name with the money from a fraudulent tax refund on it. and police say he used that debit card to buy those gift cards that were on the front seat of the car. >> come on, man. >> he's arrested for marijuana possession. but police later charged him with grand theft in connection with tax refund fraud. how easy is it to do this? >> they're so easy it's like the federal government putting crack cocaine in candy machines, it's that easy. >> the criminals cash in those debit cards as quickly as possible showing off their riches with expensive luxury cars. they flaunt fancy watches, diamond pendants worth $55,000, and other jewelry. this one inscribed with the words money hungry.

just a few hundred miles north up in tampa, police estimate the fraud approaches a staggering half billion dollars in the last two years. >> that's over 2,000 in cash. >> just one example of what is happening nationwide. police chief jane caster says the irs efforts to curtail it aren't working. >> i don't think that i have ever seen this magnitude of fraud that is just wide open. it's wide open. there just doesn't seem to be much done about it. >> for its part, the irs identified $6.5 billion in tax refund fraud related to identity theft last year. >> i'd like to hear the other side of that equation too. an estimation of how much got through. >> that's what we wanted to know too. just how much fraud has gone undetected. after weeks of asking, the irs deputy commissioner couldn't

give us an answer. >> just to be clear. you can tell us how much has been caught. but the irs can't say how much of this fraudulent money has ended up in criminals' hands. >> we process 140 million tax returns at irs on a given year. we're doing a balancing act. because one thing we want to do is get refunds out to the hands of legitimate taxpayers as quickly as possible. and with as little intrusion. but for the actual size of the problem, we probably need to get back to you with a number. >> we're still waiting on that number. typical says tampa mayor who is furious with the irs. >> has the irs disappointed you and your city? >> i don't know. i haven't seen them. as far as i'm concerned, they're missing in action. they have not been helpful. they have not been a player. they have not taken responsibility for their side of the enforcement. >> is the irs missing in action in tampa? what's your response? >> no. the irs is not.

in fact, we have significantly increased the amount of resources we've devoted to identity theft which is a heinous crime. >> just one week after our interview, the irs sent a team to meet with tampa and north miami beach police officials. law enforcement tells us there's a simple solution to curbing much of the fraud. don't allow the refunds to be put on debit cards. >> why hasn't the irs stopped that? >> not every taxpayer has a bank account. so the debit cards that are issued by a third party provider are a legitimate way for taxpayers to get their refund. >> and the fraudsters know time is on their side. the faster the irs sends out the returns, the sooner they get some hardworking taxpayer's cash. >> it's an underground epidemic. it's taken the place of street

level drug dealing. >> are these your cards? >> it is a scary proposition. >> so randi, where is the guy we saw arrested in your story? >> he is in jail awaiting a court date. but he hasn't yet entered a plea for the marijuana possession or the grand theft. as far as the victim in that case, her identity was out there because her purse had been stolen. somehow her information ended up in his hands. it's that easy. >> what about all those victims? how do they get their refunds? >> it is such a nightmare for them, because the burden is on them. they have to prove to the irs that their identity was stolen, and someone filed taxes in their name. and this can take more than a year for them to get their refund back. the treasury inspector general says that the irs isn't realistic about giving victims a time frame. he's also criticized for the improvements they've made. he says they've fallen short.

the good news is the victims do eventually get their refund. the irs pays twice. once to the fraudster and once to the victim. but it is a nightmare of a process you have to go through. >> that's unbelievable. randi, thanks. you can see more investigation into tax fraud on sunday night. 8:00 p.m. eastern. video of the tsa patting down a 3-year-old boy in a wheelchair is getting a lot of attention, it's easy to see why. thanks for babysitting the kids, brittany.

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news and business bulletin. breaking news, a tornado touched down about 25 miles southwest of a central texas city. no reports of injuries or damage. the twister, part a long line of dangerous weather in the area. >> people who know bales say they're stunned he's accused of slaughtering 16 civilians in afghanistan. in a statement, his wife extends condolences to the victim's families. the owners of the mets have settled a lawsuit over the bernie madoff ponzi scheme. they will pay $162 million to the trustee in charge of getting the money back that madoff stole. they say they knew madoff stole, but never knew it was a scam. and take a look at this. it's a video of a tsa agent patting down a 3-year-old boy in a wheelchair. the video has gone viral. the boy's father recently posted the video. he said it was upsetting. last september the tsa changed its rules on how it searches

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yes. it is time for the ridiculist. tonight we're adding a toilet kapper that's been perpetrated on the good citizens of the denver metro area. the man has been arrested for stealing toilet parts from businesses in and around denver, colorado. the guy hit office buildings, a movie theater, grocery store, hospital, university, and restaurants including a taco bell. take it away.

>> it's back to business as usual here, but the thief did inconvenience customers needing to take care of business. >> we started calling him the crapper scrapper. >> the crapper scrapper. how much fun do you think the police had fun coming up with that nickname? i would have had yielding tank yanker perhaps. but crapper scrapper works with too. usually the guys from jackass, they're the usual suspects. bam margera once stole all the toilets from his father's house. and potty mouth hilarity ensued. >> come on, [ bleep ]. >> that's disgusting. >> leak it into the tub! [ laughter ] >> there's nothing you can do. >> oh, man. [ laughter ] >> youth. seems kind of fun when it's a made for tv prank.

not funny we're you're at a taco bell. and suddenly you realize you've been foiled by the crapper scrapper. so this point you may be asking what is the crapper scrapper's motis operandi? why must he steal the toilets? for the toilet metal. and it turns out the guy is a plumber so he knows exactly what he's doing. >> he shuts off this water then steals the metal plumbing selling them for scrap. the money he got was little. perhaps 30 to 40 bucks at a time. compared to the cost to his victims. >> yes. the high cost of holding it. not to mention the cost for replacing all the toilets. so much paperwork. this toilet plundering spread went on for two months. toilets all over the metro area were rendered useless. it was a scourge on the city. but people were taking it in stride. >> people say it stinks. >> you go into a bathroom