today when they stepped up to the microphones outside the courthouse in sanford, florida, some expected george zimmerman might be with them. instead viewers around the country got this. >> as of now, we are withdrawing as counsel with mr. zimmerman. we've lost contact with him. up to this point, we've had contact with him every day. he's gone on his own. i'm not sure what he's doing or who he's talking to. >> zimmerman, they suggested, had gone rogue, had contacted the special prosecutor's office on his own, and is in a fragile condition. >> george zimmerman, in our opinion and from information made available to us, is not doing well emotionally, probably suffering from post-traumatic

stress syndrome. we understand he may have lost a lot of weight. our concern, for him to do this when he's got a couple of professionals working as hard as we were for his benefit, to handle it that way suggests he may not be in complete control of what's going on. we're concerned for his emotional and physical safety. >> that was hal uhrig. zimmerman for his part has said nothing on his website, which he did update today, writing, "i'm attempting to respond to each and every one of my supporters personally. the support has been overwhelming in volume and strength." joining us are attorneys hal uhrig and craig sonner. why did you decide to speak so publicly about this today? >> a couple of reasons. first of all, we want to make it absolutely clear we're professionals. we have ethical requirements. we've been asked by mr. zimmerman to represent him. we've been in constant communication with him, even while we were in new york this past weekend.

suddenly on sunday, he went quiet and dark. we found out on monday he set up a website on his own without conferring with us, couldn't get a hold of him. and yesterday after additional developments, we talked to the prosecutor this morning, we learned he had communicated directly with both another national news network and the prosecutor's office. contrary to our advice, with us unable to get any kind of contact with him at the phone he was using to talk to them, we couldn't go out in the public and say we still represent him without getting him to confirm it and talk with us. >> mr. sonner, when i first spoke to you a couple of weeks ago, you had not had any meetings with george zimmerman at that time, and today you revealed that you still had not met face to face with george zimmerman. did you find that odd that this late in the game you still had not met with your client face to face? >> no, because there are many times i represent clients who are out of state or in other places. in this case, because of the danger that george zimmerman was in, i understood that he had to stay hidden, and if he came to

my office, there were a lot of people coming through, a lot of media and so on, and the black panthers had a $10,000 reward on his head. so it made sense that it would only communicate by telephone and e-mail and text, and that worked fine. >> mr. uhrig, were you ever officially his attorneys? had he signed a document saying you were his attorneys? had you met with family members, his family members? >> we had been in communication with family members. in fact, the father went to the bank with mr. sonner to set up the bank account, which the website we put up for his benefit so that we didn't touch the money. the money would go to a bank account with only his father's name on it. his father was communicative with us, he was communicative with us. we sent him a written contract. he said he had signed it and sent it back. we haven't seen it. so we decided to let the public know, stop asking the questions.

we don't know any more than you do. >> you said today that george zimmerman is, quote, probably suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. is that ethical to be commenting on his alleged mental state? >> absolutely. it may wind up being a defense. one thing is for certain. we're concerned about his physical and mental state. it did not strike us as rational. you have every right to hire and fire who you want to, but to simply stop communicating with your legal team gives us pause for concern on how he's doing, and it might represent a normal rational explanation for what's happening as opposed to saying he's doing something untoward. >> was that information you had been told by -- maybe i should ask this of mr. sonner since you were actually with his father. was this information you learned from his father or another family member, information that george zimmerman had actually said to you, or simply your impression that george zimmerman is suffering from that mental

state? >> i'm not going to make any comments as to whether -- it's just speculation as to what he's going through because of everything that he's endured at this point. the primary thing was that all of a sudden things -- i think as hal said, he went dark. he wasn't contacting me anymore. he wasn't calling by phone, wasn't sending e-mails, wasn't sending text messmessages. on saturday i talked to him, some little thing we had to resolve, and everything seemed fine on saturday. something happened on sunday, and, of course, we learned there was a website set up, which was fine that he set it up. i had lined up a website designer to do it, and we set up a bank account because i didn't think he was going to be able to do it. it was really better that he was able to do it himself. it keeps me from being involved with his money. that's something that lawyers don't want to do is have their hands too much on their client's money. contrary to what the lawyer jokes say, we want to keep -- the quickest way to get disbarred is to get your hands

on your client's money or in your client's trust fund. so that was just fantastic with me that he was setting up his own. but he was also making contact with -- i was getting calls from the media saying, you know, george zimmerman has contacted us. is this really him? i found out from a prosecutor that george zimmerman had contacted the prosecutor's office. and he wasn't returning my calls. >> so you felt like you had no control over your client, you had no real influence over your client? >> we had lost client control because he wasn't returning phone calls. if it turns out he was just going through a tough time and he wants us to come back for him, i think that things could be resolved. but at this point, it doesn't seem likely as the phone calls aren't being returned. i don't know where he's going from here. >> mr. uhrig, a friend of george zimmerman, frank taffe, has come forward and told us that he spoke to zimmerman yesterday and that zimmerman was -- and i quote -- clear, concise, and lucid. would you characterize him as clear, concise, and lucid in

your conversations with him? >> you know what, i didn't see him yesterday, and i don't know mr. taffe. what i know is this. i've represented thousands of clients over the years. some clients have become dissatisfied. they know how to use the phone and call me and tell me that or send me an e-mail if they don't want to talk to me or send me a text message if they don't want to e-mail me. under the circumstances of this case, it seemed beyond unusual, and we felt like we had an ethical obligation to kind of step aside. we have nothing against george zimmerman. we believe in his case. we believe in his innocence. we were prepared to defend him all the way, but we simply cannot defend somebody who won't communicate with us and who is off the reservation talking to people we advised him not to talk to. >> you said today he's much farther away than florida. are you sure he's in the united states? >> since he's not within my view right now, i couldn't tell you exactly where he's at. we have some reason to know where -- some point in time. i'm not going to start speculating on that. i can tell you this.

i don't believe he's a flight risk. i believe, as we had promised, if he's ever charged, which we hope he's not, that he'll turn himself in. if he calls us and asks us to participate in that, we'll talk to him about it. if not, we'll have some other lawyer help him with it. >> can you say for certain whether or not he's in the united states? >> no, he's in the united states. i have had phone contact and talked with him on his cell phone and so on. he did reveal what state he was in and where he was when he was communicating with me. as of sunday and monday and today is tuesday, those days, i don't know where he is, but i don't believe he's going to leave the country. i mean, he called the prosecutor's office this morning. i don't think he's a flight risk. i never did think he was a flight risk. >> craig sonner, hal uhrig, appreciate you both being on the program tonight. thank you very much. we're going to continue the breaking news coverage. let's bring in our own legal coverage. criminal defense attorney mark

geragos and former prosecutor sunny hostin. mark geragos, as a defense attorney, what was your reaction to this very public withdrawal? >> oh, my god. i'm sitting here, anderson, and this is just a train wreck of proportions i don't even know where to begin. >> explain. >> well, first of all, i don't understand the people invoking their ethical obligations and then going out and blasting the client, which is what they just did. this may be the height of chutzbah for criminal defense lawyers to say we haven't talked to our clients for two days. so therefore we're withdrawing. by the way, there's no court case filed. so there's nothing to withdraw from, number one. number two, who are you to be diagnosing your client's mental state when you say you haven't talked to him? this was completely inexplicable. i thought i was watching a "saturday night live" skit. >> is it unusual to you, mark, that they were never officially

retained by mr. zimmerman? every time i've hired attorneys, i've gotten a document pretty quickly to sign, or even a real estate agent, a document pretty quickly to sign to say, i am retaining you. >> here in california -- you've got jose on the line. you can ask jose. here in california, if it's a retention for over $1,000, the state bar rule is it must be in writing signed by the client. to be out there doing the media tour and bouncing from place to place -- and i'm telling you, my tongue is bleeding because i was biting my tongue as i was watching this because i don't like to second guess other lawyers who are in the eye of the storm. but this, frankly, is one of the most outrageous things i've ever witnessed. this is really beyond the pale for two lawyers to go out there and say, we haven't contacted him in two days, and we felt it was our ethical responsibility to go on the air right now and start blasting him and saying, it may be a potential defense that the guy's got a mental problem when we're trying to say that he was in reasonable fear for his life when he had shot somebody. this is just the height of absurdity.

i don't even know where to begin on this, anderson. it's ridiculous. >> jose baez, what do you make thf? >> well, anderson, first, you can't have mark on before me because he just stole every single word i was about to say. i too thought i was watching a "saturday night live" skit. it's unbelievable that you would get on television and talk about your client's mental state. what you have here, you have -- as an attorney, you have an ethical obligation not only just to attorney-client communications, but attorney-client confidences, things you learn in the process of representing a client are considered confidential. so any conversation that they had or nonconversation that they had with george zimmerman are completely protected. and the holder of this privilege is george zimmerman, not the attorneys. unfortunately, i've seen in central florida this type of

resignation from -- a public resignation from another attorney, who i'd rather not name, and i think it's reprehensible. unbelievable. >> jose, what do they have in the water down there in florida? i don't understand what they're doing. this is just absolutely the worst thing i think i can remember seeing any lawyers do in regards to their client. i thought that some of the previous interviews were train wrecks. those things were toy cars compared to what this is. >> actually, jose, let me just ask you about the florida law. how quickly are you supposed to sign a document retaining counsel? >> a retainer agreement is not required, unlike in other states. it is strongly suggested, and certainly it is something that any competent lawyer would do, immediately get a retainer agreement. especially if you're putting your face, your name, in front of a television camera, saying that you represent someone that

you haven't even met. i think that's incredibly reckless. >> sunny hostin, you're a former prosecutor. what's your take on it? >> for once, mark geragos and i agree. i agree with jose baez as well. i've never seen anything like this. mark, you have me on this one. >> finally. >> i think as a prosecutor you come -- you're looking at a case, and now i'm worried. i'm worried, if i am inclined to bring charges, is george zimmerman a flight risk? can i get to him if i have to issue an arrest warrant? >> exactly. >> now, maybe my investigation is going a little more quickly. maybe now i'm going to bring charges a little more quickly. and so this really harms george zimmerman in the eyes of a prosecutor looking at this case and deciding whether or not to charge. >> who are they going to call? they're going to call these two lawyers as witnesses to his mental state, as jose aptly

described is something completely protected by privilege, and they go out on national tv and say that this guy is unhinged and that he's potentially a flight risk? >> hold on. i've just been given a media alert from the office of angela cory, the state attorney in florida. state attorney angela cory is preparing to release new information regarding the trayvon martin shooting death investigation. within the next 72 hours, miss cory will hold a news conference regarding the case. the media will receive e-mail notification. doesn't go on to say anything more. >> no surprise there. >> what does that tell you, sunny? >> again, it tells me she's certainly concerned about this new development. >> do you think this is in relation to this development or whether she's going to have an arrest warrant? >> it could very well be the investigation is completed, but it could also very well be that she's watching the media, just like everyone else, that she watched the press conference, and now she is perhaps concerned about george zimmerman's safety,

about george zimmerman's mental state, and whether or not he's going to flee the country, flee the jurisdiction. >> do you think this relates to what happened tonight? >> i'm telling you, sunny, this is one of those times, roll the videotape, that i agree with you wholeheartedly. it's exactly you're telegraphing to the prosecutor i don't have control over this guy. i don't know where he is. he's a flight risk. you're asking, anderson, great questions. is he in the country? guy says, well, yes, he's in the country, and yet at the same time, i don't know where he is, and i can't get in contact with him. >> he's not in florida. >> he's not in florida, he's somewhere else. of course, she's issuing a statement because of this. >> you have to assume he's a flight risk. because you have lawyers that are doing something that's ill advised, it still doesn't reflect on whether he's going to do something criminal and become a flight risk. i would kind of disagree with sunny on that one. while it would probably raise an

eyebrow, is still is not any specific evidence of being a flight risk. i don't think it should be held against mr. zimmerman. >> if you cannot control your client, if your client is calling the media or calling the prosecutor without meeting with you face to face, without talking to you, don't you as a lawyer kind of want to step down or step back? >> yes, anderson, and i've done that. i've been in the exact, identical position. you resign. you don't go out and slam him. you don't go out and make some kind of off the court comments about the mental state. you just quietly resign and go on your way. it's not about you. it's not about the lawyer. your duty as a lawyer is to zealously represent your client. if you can't do it any longer, you resign, get out of the way. >> it happens every day. the lawyers withdraw every day. >> it happens every single day. >> it's a fascinating development, as we say. within 72 hours, the state attorney is going to be giving a press conference, it appears, with some sort of new

development in the case, new information, in her words, new information regarding the trayvon martin shooting death investigation. there had been talk all week about a possible arrest warrant within the next 48 hours or so. it seems we'll know something within the next 72. sunny hos tin, mark geragos, jose baez, thank you. strange day. a lot more at cnn.com. tweet me @andersoncooper. i'll be tweeting tonight. talk to me right now. other big news, rick santorum's departure.♪ what it means for mitt romney's chances in the fall. we'll talk to paul begala and we'll talk to paul begala and dana bash about that. ♪ why tell the trees what ain't so? ♪ [ male announcer ] dow solutions use vibration reduction technology to help reduce track noise so trains move quieter through urban areas all over the world. together, the elements of science and the human element can solve anything. [ all ] shh! [ male announcer ] solutionism.

the new optimism.

we're at politics now. welcome to the fall campaign. now rick santorum, the only possible challenger for mitt romney, is dropping out of the race today. >> we made a decision to get into this race at our kitchen table and against all the odds, and we made a decision over the weekend that, while this presidential race for us is over, for me, and we will suspend our campaign effective today, we are not done fighting. >> sources say senator santorum called governor romney before making his announcement. for his part, governor romney praised his former opponent, calling him a worthwhile contender and a valuable ally. >> he will continue to have a major role in the republican party. and i look forward to his work

helping assure help for republicans across the country. we've got to get that done. >> newt gingrich promised to keep campaigning. but really the math, though, the reality is pretty simple. mitt romney now has a clear path to the republican nomination. there's new cnn/orc polling that shows without santorum in the race, romney has a 28-point lead over newt gingrich. it appears to be game over for the primaries, and as we've already seen for both parties, game on for the general election. dana bash is with us tonight. as is senior strategist ari fleischer, and democratic strategist paul begala. it was clear santorum wasn't going to overtake romney in delegates. why drop out now? was it personal considerations or political or both? >> let's start with political. it's been obvious for some time, but in the near future, santorum at several events, first of all, they realized the next big, big state where they thought they

could win, texas, once they thought it was not going to be winner take all, they realized it was going to be very difficult. secondly, they tried very hard in many ways to get newt gingrich, who's been siphoning conservative votes away from rick santorum, to get him out of the race, that doesn't work. and third, the pennsylvania primary coming up. paul begala knows pennsylvania very well. it was going to be tough for rick santorum. their spin is they were going to win. talking to santorum advisers privately, they were not so sure. romney was spending a lot of money. and on the personal side, spending the weekend in the hospital with his 3-year-old daughter for the second time during the campaign, it put things in perspective big time for him. >> certainly our thoughts are with her and with the family. as a democrat, would you have liked to see him stay in the race? >> sure. santorum had very little money, very little staffing. john reberger as his chief consultant, great guy.

but beyond that, i don't think he even had a headquarters. headquarters was wherever his car was. he did a heck of a job in the primaries. he pointed the way for president obama. don't let him outspend you 16 to 1 which romney did. and authenticity, which santorum has in abundance and romney lacks. and second, this blue collar sensibility that even in the republican party rick santorum brought into the race, and even until wisconsin, this last major primary, romney seemed unable to get middle class or low income, even republicans, those blue collar republicans, reagan democrats that are essential to a republican victory. i think president obama would do well to push those two issues, authenticity and the middle class. >> ari, a couple of numbers in "the washington post" and abc poll today, one is a slim majority of republicans didn't want santorum to leave the race yet. what does that say about how they feel about mitt romney? >> from the beginning, romney

had a conservative problem, and here at the end of the republican primary, he continues to have a conservative problem. but he won, and republican primaries always go to the most conservative guy, but he didn't. that actually says romney has more of a chance than people are giving him credit for with independents, with moderate voters. when it comes to the conservative base that doesn't quite trust mitt romney, anderson, paul, dana, we all know it. they are going to be with mitt romney in a powerful way this november because nothing motivates republicans more than a desire to beat president obama. >> ari, polls talking about the importance of reaching out to blue collar voters and thinking president obama has an advantage over mitt romney. both are criticized as being not necessarily the most -- they're not the sort of bill clinton, i feel your pain, kind of candidates. >> i think we're heading for an election where both candidates, president obama and mitt romney, have a lot of trouble with a lot of sectors of the electorate. they are both weak -- mitt romney is emerging from this primary weaker than a lot of republicans would have liked him

to be. so too is president obama. the obama presidency has taken its toll on president obama's rating with the american people, with independents. as hillary clinton proved in her primary against barack obama, the president has a blue collar problem with working class americans. he hasn't done anything to get over that in the course of his presidency. unemployment is so high, he's actually made it worse. so you're going to have one of these races, anderson, where i don't think it's going to be the most uplifting, love-in, positive race that america has seen in a november election. i think you've got surly electorate and two candidates, and the public doesn't seem fond of either one. >> paul is hoping it's not a love-in race. i know you like the clash. >> i do. it's not personal attacks. >> has this made romney a better campaigner? >> no, oddly. usually, it does. it has in the past for other presidential nominees, but not for mitt romney. it's because i think he has wrongly been so freaked out by conservatives. ari is right. conservatives were always going to be with the republican nominee. he's gone so far to the extreme,

he was attacking rick santorum from the right on contraception. rick santorum is to the right of the pope on contraception. he was attacking rick perry from the right on immigration. women and latinos may be the most important constituencies in november, and he has pulled himself out of the mainstream to those two vital constituencies, making him a weaker candidate for november. >> dana, is an endorsement of mitt romney a sure thing from rick santorum? >> i don't know if we'll hear the "e" word in the next couple of days, but there's no question, talking to santorum aides, and there's no question after a phone call between santorum and romney, he is going to work with romney in a big way. he may actually formally endorse him. it wouldn't be a surprise. but i want to be a contrarian to what ari and paul were saying about conservatives. if somebody is going to go out and vote already and be a conservative, they're not going to vote for barack obama. the question, though, is whether or not conservative activists are going to turn up their

machines to get out the vote for mitt romney. i can tell you, talking to leading conservatives today, they're saying no. they're going to focus on the senate now. >> dana bash, thank you. ari fleischer, paul begala. the ceasefire deadline for syria. it came and went. they continue their attacks.

keeping them honest. today was supposed to be the day for the killing to stop in syria. the day by which syria's dictator promised to stop

pulling people out of cities and towns and stop murdering its own people. well, this apparently is how the assad regime keeps the promises it makes. shelling today in homs. syria's foreign minister says the government has pulled forces out of some provinces today, clearly not in this section of homs, clearly not elsewhere in the city either. apartment buildings today going up in flames, the bombardment not letting up. as we're pulling out, tanks are still on city streets, still firing on residential neighborhoods. rolling military operations and population centers is how former u.n. secretary general kofi annan put it, he's the one that brokered that deal with syria, the deal that syria is violating. he says weapons haven't been pulled out. keeping them within killing range of their residential targets. opposition groups say more than 100 people have been killed today. we can't verify that.

this is from yesterday when upwards of 145 people were reportedly killed. 1,100 people died since assad promised to stop the killing. today at refugee camps across the border in turkey, anger boiled over at peacekeeping efforts. secretary annan is under the umbrella there, surrounded by security. the chanting is people throwing insults at him calling him a liar. saying the peace effort was giving assad more time quite literally to kill. senators john mccain and joe lieberman also toured the camps today on a separate trip than annan's. getting a better reception than mr. annan. we spoke by phone. senator mccain, the syrian government agreed to withdraw its troops from major cities by today as part of kofi annan's peace plan. has the u.n. been played here? clearly, they've gone beyond the deadline. >> i think it's very obvious they've been played, just like the arab league proposal that bashar al assad had agreed to before they were played.

the fact is, anderson, if bashar assad withdraws from the city then the protesters obviously take over, and he can't do that. the resistance will take over the cities the moment the tanks and artillery are withdrawn. >> senator lieberman, have we reached the end of the line diplomatically? >> well, i think we have. i don't know how many times world leaders are going to have to be deceived, lied to by assad before they realize that this man can't be trusted. to me one of the most profoundly troubling parts of the trips that john mccain and i have made these last couple of days is talking to the syrian opposition to the free syrian army and find notwithstanding all the sympathetic statements from world leaders, they've basically gotten zero. they're running out of ammunition. they don't have bullets, and they're being fired at every day. so, no, i think the answer is we've got to arm the syrian

opposition, and only when assad feels threatened by that kind of counterattack will he even think about leaving, hopefully, or going to real negotiations. >> to those who say, well, look, we don't know enough about the opposition, there's the fears of al qaeda involved. there's fears of extremists involved. what do you say? >> look, we met with these people. any of our colleagues in congress who are troubled because we don't know who they are ought to come over here and meet with them as well. they're patriots. they're not extremists. and they all said to us, if the u.s. and the moderate arab world doesn't get involved in helping them, then there will be an opening for al qaeda and the islamist extremists, but we can't let that happen. >> there's so many things that we want to say, but, again -- and you've been showing it night after night -- it's not a fair fight. it's not a fair fight. don't we at some point say,

enough of the slaughter? >> the syrian government is now demanding a written guarantee that the opposition is going to lay down their arms. is that, senator lieberman, just another stall tactic by the assad regime? >> yeah, i think it is another stall tactic by the assad regime. you've got to take it in the context of all the broken pro promises and distractions and delays of assad. while he does that, he continues to murder his own people. >> so senator mccain, what are you hoping to see in terms of military involvement, in terms of military action? early on, you called for international air strikes with some involvement from the u.s., that the u.s. is now helping with communications equipment, other states, qatar, saudi arabia, are arming or giving funds to the opposition forces. what are you hoping to see? >> first of all, the information

we have is they haven't gotten anything yet. second of all, i'm pleased we want to give them communications equipment. communications equipment doesn't do very well against helicopters, tanks, and artillery. and i understand the reluctance of the american people, but the job of leaders of the american people is to explain why we should do what we can to stop this, and i think that a sanctuary would be very important, a no-fly zone. the prime minister of turkey alluded to it today. i think the world is getting sick of this slaughter, and maybe, just maybe, we are starting some movement in the right direction. >> senator lieberman, there are a lot of americans who say -- and senator mccain alluded to it -- to say, look, another military involvement overseas. to them, you say what? >> i say two things. first, we've got a moral responsibility here, the whole world does. you can't stand by and watch people being slaughtered of the hopefully, we've progressed some

from that point of world history. the second is every day that we do nothing, it's not just the syrian people that suffer. it's assad that wins and iran wins. and if we can help bring down assad, it's a tremendous strategic victory for us against iran. i want to come back -- >> before you go on, could i just add one point to that. there would be no american boots on the ground, and this would be a multinational effort. go ahead, john. i'm sorry to interrupt. >> no, no, it's okay. i just want to focus on, in my opinion -- and this is exactly the answer we got from the syrian national council, the political leadership, and the free syrian army leadership, they want weapons and munitions. they don't want us there. they just want us to give them the opportunity to defend themselves and their families. >> one thing people in syria have said to me over and over

again when i talk to them on the phone is that they are no longer afraid. we've heard that throughout the many of these so-called arab spring uprisings. there is no going back. >> these are wonderful and brave people who share our values, our rights, and frankly they do look to the united states of america. i'm glad they do. i just hope that we'll give them something that will authenticate their faith and belief in us. >> senator mccain and senator lieberman, thank you very much. >> thank you, anderson. back home, a nightmare scenario. imagine being adopted and then later in life looking for your birth parents and finding out your father might be one of the most infamous murderers of all time, charles manson. we're going to meet the man who said that's what happened to him. plus the latest on charles manson's next parole hearing. i'll talk to the prosecutor who put him away.

in crime and punishment tonight, the latest parole hearing for charles manson, possibly the most notorious murderer of all time. the california department of corrections released photos of manson which were taken last june. he's 77 now. his hair is gray. his hair is longer there. the swastika tattoo still clearly visible on his forehead. his latest hearing is set for tomorrow. he's been denied parole 11 times. vincent bugliosi prosecuted manson, his assistants in the murders, sharon tate, and others. he wrote the book helter skelter. i spoke to him about the latest parole hearing and whether there's any chance at all manson will ever go free. you say there's no way charles manson will be granted parole.

why? >> these hearings are just a formality, anderson. he's had 11 prior hearings. he knows he's going to be automatically rejected, and the evidence of that is he hasn't even shown up at some of these hearings. leslie van hout, one of his co-defendants, was only convicted of two murders, and the parole board has refused to release her. why in the world would they ever dream of releasing charles manson, who's been convicted of nine murders? he's the one that orchestrated and masterminded all of the manson family killings. it's ridiculous on its face to assume that there's even a possibility that he's going to be released. >> do you have any doubt that he's still a danger to society? >> yeah, he's still a danger, of course. of course he is. i think he'd be emboldened if he were ever set free. even if he were not a danger to society, if justice means anything in america, at a very minimum, he should spend the rest of his life behind bars. some people forget, anderson, that manson originally was sentenced to death. i told the jury that, if this is

not a proper case for the imposition of the death penalty, no case ever would be, even challenging them and said, if you're unwilling to come back with a death verdict in this case, we should abolish the death penalty in california. how many people do you have to kill to get the death penalty? they did return verdicts of death against him. but as you know, the very next year, in 1972, the california and u.s. supreme courts both ruled the death penalty was unconstitutional. >> does it disappoint you as a former prosecutor that he continues to get attention? >> well, yeah, because, i'll tell you, he, i think, enjoys his notoriety. >> he enjoys it? >> steeped in infamy as it is. after my trial, or after my trying him and convicting him, he told me, he says, you know, mr. bugliosi, you haven't achieved anything at all. all you did was send me back to where i came from. we used to have sarcastic

conversations back and forth. i said, yeah, but as far as i know, you haven't been to the green room before. that's the apple green room at san quentin, the gas chamber, and he just smiled. but then the next year i was listening to the radio, and i heard the supreme court of the united states had set aside the death penalty, and the first thing that came to mind was what manson had told me. he gets out of prison in 1967, 32 years of age. 17 out of those 32 years have been spent in jails, reformatories, and prisons. he doesn't mind prison life. he's totally institutionalized. and all we do is send him back to where he came from. he doesn't mind it at all. i think he's enjoying himself. it's just a tremendously gross violation of the entire notion of justice. >> vincent bugliosi, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. >> up close tonight, 43 years after the manson murders, a lot of people still have a dark

fascination with that guy. he's reportedly received more mail than any other inmate in the u.s. prison system. what does that say? one man who corresponds with manson is different than the others. he says there's a good chance manson may be his father. something he was shocked to discover. miguel marquez has the story. >> i live in uncertainty and chaos. >> reporter: matthew roberts is a haunted man. is he the son, the spawn of charles manson? >> it's like holy hell, it certainly does seem like it's more than just possible, but probable. >> reporter: roberts, adopted as an infant, had, by all accounts, a normal childhood in rockford, illinois. in 1998 at age 30, he sought out his birth mother, a recluse living in wisconsin, who told him he was conceived in 1967 in san francisco where she met manson at a drug fueled orgy. one account i read of that orgy, there were four men present. >> that's the way i understand it. originally, that's what i was kind of looking at, there was about a 1 in 4 chance. >> reporter: roberts says he wasn't convinced his birth mother knew manson until he

began exchanging letters with prisoner b33920. in those letters, manson quoted things only his birth mother would know, stories about her early life, so sure he's manson's son, roberts has twice tried to get a dna match. the test, though, inconclusive. manson's dna sample contaminated. >> unless i see somebody scrape the piece of skin off his ass and bring it to the lab, i want to know that i know. >> reporter: what is unmistakable is not just that roberts looks like manson. here are two photos, both in their 30s, a striking resemblance -- the eyes, nose, mouth, and forehead -- but it is the way that roberts speaks and what he says that sounds eerily familiar. >> because every time you send someone after me, they can't find me because they're not really there in their minds. >> i know what goes on in my head. you guys can only guess, but i know what goes on in my head. >> reporter: even more eerie,

the similarities between the two men run deep. roberts is a militant vegetarian, pacifist, and considers himself an environmentalist, claims also made by charles manson. roberts moved to l.a. in 1986, and like manson, wanted to be famous, a rock star. ♪ welcome to the world >> reporter: roberts band, new rising sun, is pure rock and roll, manson's music more folksy, and at times down right weird. ♪ today roberts pays the bills working at the blue zebra cabaret in l.a.'s san fernando valley. >> two for one special. >> reporter: he's been accused of cashing in on manson's notoriety. roberts says, it's anything but. >> it's ruined my career. it has got me nothing but grief. >> reporter: roberts just wants to know the truth before the now 77-year-old manson dies. >> if he is my father, then it would be nice to have laid eyes

on him and been in person, person to person with him once in my lifetime. >> reporter: for now, matthew roberts lives with a hope and a fear of knowing who his father is. cnn los angeles. >> interesting story. there is news tonight that is neither dark nor shock. it's about a hero. really the only way to describe the middle school student who took control of the school bus after the driver slumped over the wheel. dramatic moments captured on the bus surveillance camera. ♪ i can go anywhere ♪ i can go anywhere today ♪ la la la la la la la [ male announcer ] dow solutions help millions of people by helping to make gluten free bread that doesn't taste gluten free. together, the elements of science and the human element can solve anything. solutionism. the new optimism.

on december 21st

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two breaking news story at this hour. fighter jets intercepted a korean airline flight that took off from vancouver international airport after a bomb threat was called in to a u.s. call center. the plane landed as the military base in vancouver island and is being secured. in peru, a rescue operation is set to begin to try to reach nine miners who have been trapped since thursday.

engineers are working to make sure the mine is secure. president obama is reiterating his call for higher taxes on the wealthy, making the case for what's called the buffett rule. he says middle class americans shouldn't pay a higher percentage of their income than millionaires and billionaires like warren buffett. and a heroic seventh grader in washington state saved the day after his school bus driver slumped over at the steering wheel. jeremy wuitschick managed to guide the bus to the side of the road. the driver was hospitalized for a heart condition. anderson? >> isha, thanks. did you celebrate dingus day?

time now for the ridiculist. tonight we're adding anyone who missed out on dyngus day. yeah. i said dyngus day. you haven't written all your dyngus day notes or your thank you notes from last year, and here it is again. dyngus day isn't a totally fake holiday like "seinfeld's" festivus. it's a real thing, obscure but real. it's a polish american tradition celebrating the end of lent. the day after easter. all over the country, three places we know of for sure, there were dyngus day parades and parties and lots of drinking and dancing revelry. you could have gotten your dyngus on in indiana or in ohio. but if you really want the most bang for your dyngus buck, you've got to shuffle off to buffalo. >> buff loy calls itself the dyngus day capital of the world. it's hard to argue when you see festivities that break out. >> buffalo, the dyngus day capital of the world. also the birthplace of the chicken wing. little known fact.

they've celebrated dyngus day since the 1800s. it took off in the 1960s. >> it caught on for a number of reasons. dyngus, first of all, is a funny word. it's spelled with a "y." people don't know what it means. >> it's funny because it's spelled with a "y." what does it mean anyway? my new favorite reference spot, dyngusdaybuffalo.com says dyngus can be traced back to a medieval word meaning worthy, proper, or suitable. here's how you celebrate dyngus day. >> the quirky rituals include boys sprinkling girls with water and the girls firing back with a tap from a pussy willow branch. [ laughter ] >> i'm not going to let you do this. i'm sorry.

it's so stupid. it's really so stupid. oh, come on. this is torture. [ laughter ] just got to let it out. got to let it out. i know. i know. it sounds like a bunch of water logged drunk people hitting each other with sticks. and then, of course, there's the drinking and dancing and music, and more drinking.