-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com i'm erin burnett. cnn projects the republican governor of wisconsin, scott walker, survived a recall election today, defeating the mayor of milwaukee, tom barrett in a massively expensive battle which has been widely

characterized as a litmus test for the presidential election. mitt romney right after the verdict came in released a statement, praising the governor and saying tonight's results will echo beyond the borders of wisconsin. now, we're waiting to hear from the governor, governor walker will be speaking any moment. we'll bring it to you live. as you can see, a lot of people getting ready in the badger state for him to make his appearance. john king is with me now. john avlon, reihan salam, gloria borger. let me ask you something, john avlon, the whole litmus test for the election. and mark theissen talked about how the vote would go. 56% for walker, 43%, barrett. that means there's significant number of independents in wisconsin who support scott walker and barack obama. what does that mean for november? >> this is going to have far-reaching implications and it

will probably be overstated over the next 72 hours or so. but here's one thing that's clear. debbie wasserman schultz wishes she never said this was a dry run for the national election because this a big win for scott walker and a big wake-up call for the democrats. >> you're talking about how the exit polls did not give us an indication. 73% of the precincts are reporting, but a very big spread for walker. >> it clearly undercounted the walker votes. did the republicans not want to talk to the people with the surveys, is there something wrong with the statistical model? john mentioned the policy implications were through political implications. herman cain is not the republican nominee, rick perry is not the republican nominee. don't project anything from tonight to 154 days from here. but here's one lesson. the democrats are going to complain and they already are. outspent seven to one. guess what the republican groups are going to say it works. you better start trying to raise money. when you lose it's harder to

save money. when you win it's easier to raise money. the republican super pacs are going to prove 23 you give us money, the people who write our check, do they belong in the politics? and they're going to say send us the money. go county by county and scott walker overperformed two years ago in an election that was a referendum on him. >> pretty amazing. for those of you out there, the big players, sheldon adelson who supported ne-- supporter for ne gingrich, they were all playing in this. debbie wasserman schultz is going to regret saying this was a dry run for november. >> that is a big sound bite and i'm sure the chair woman would like to take it about. most special elections don't have an impact on the national elections. at the same time, you know,

recalls always kind of make me feel a little squeezy because i feel like we ought -- elections have consequences. you vote for a person, you vote for a right-wing politician, you have to live with the consequences. >> gloria, what do you think the implications are? as we said at the beginning how the independent vote is going to go in this country. you have a state like wisconsin where independents, obviously a lot of them prefer barack obama. but some of those people chose to vote for a more right-wing republican scott walker tonight. so that is what appears to be a conflict. >> well, i think you just have to look at this vote and what it was about and say that there's a message here from the voters in the state like wisconsin of all places, which says that an aggressive brand of conservatism from a governor against public employees is something that they welcome. that they believe there is a lot

of bloat in their government. there's a lot of unfairness in their government. and that they wanted it corrected. i think this is something the republican governor's association put $9 million into this race. that's no coincidence. that this is something other governors are going to look at and they're going to be emboldened by this. they're going to say you know what? this is something the public approved off in a state like wisconsin. and it may make sense for us to start doing this. if i were mitt romney i'd take a look at this message and i would say this is something i'm going to start talking about on the campaign trail as well. >> but reihan, what's the risk, that mitt romney does that and embraces it too much and alienates a lot of union voters and a lot of key swing states who may not embrace this message that he jumps too quickly and too right on it. >> well, look, these were very particular issues. at the federal level, you don't have the same kind of collective bargaining that you had in a state like wisconsin. so i think that you can take some broad ideas about reform,

reforming the public sector, shrinking the public government and i think that'll resonate. but it's not the particular set of issues you saw in wisconsin. one thing i want to say about the spending. there's something we refer to as earned media. the free coverage you get from becoming part of the big event. for months and months, you had democrats and labor allies in wisconsin generating a tremendous amount of earned media around the protests surrounding the state capital. making their case in a very forceful and aggressive way that their way was the right way. and then later on to try to even the score, you had a lot of folks trying to advance a different message. wait a second, property taxes have fallen in this state. that wait a second, we avoided some of the big layoffs in the areas where mayors and other town officials were able to renegotiate labor contracts. this was a case in which both sides were a full and frank way able to have a real conversation about the way that state and local government works. and it seems that a lot of voters decided that wait a second, saying that having laws

that are more like virginia or utah doesn't suddenly mean that scott walker is hosni mubarak or osama bin laden or the other pay he was compared to every night on evening news. >> a very important point. what we are learning here, yes some of the governors have taken dramatic steps, reforms. if you're going to oppose them you can't say they're radical right wing. they want to do something. every family in america has had to do something about their personal finances. >> they've a plan. >> a lot was painful. so when the governors are doing things that are painful they're not as opposed as they were five years ago. if you oppose it, do it with an opposing point of view. >> john avlon, this may be taking it too far, but to what john is saying s this a split between the entrenched senior management and unions across this country and the rank and file who may see things differently in the unions? >> absolutely. a profound split between public

sector and private sector unions. you asked about swing voters and independents, these voters are not in love with public sector labor unions and the costs they're bringing out of the taxpayer dollars. if a governor all of a sudden -- republican governor stands up to them, to balance a budget to reduce costs some of the swing voters who might barack obama on a local level will say that's a stand we need to take in the name of fiscal discipline. that message can resonate as a reform. >> john, go ahead. >> i don't think we can overinterpret the results to mean that americans have decided they're against unions or unions are the problems of what we faced. i think americans do think the spending we're doing needs to be curtailed. people have taken tough action in their own homes but they know that we have to raise more revenue. when we do polls people say you know what, we can't do this on one side of the ledger and not do it on the others and republicans if they overreach,

they try to do to this by overspending, i think they'll be overreaching. americans want everything in the pot, let's get some more tax revenue and fix the problem. >> thanks. we'll only hit pause on this. we'll be back in a couple of moments. we're awaiting scott walker to give his speech. people there are waiting for him to come out. it will be interesting how far he tries to go in this speech on these union issues that's coming up in a couple of moments. we'll be right back.

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all right. we're awaiting governor scott walker from wisconsin. his challenger, the milwaukee mayor, tom barrett is giving his concession speech. as you can see, obviously got to be a tough one to make. he fought hard for this. whatever side you're on, on a human level, tough to lose these things. but we'll be listening to governor walker in a moment. it's amazing how walker won than what he won by in 2010. right now it will get tighter, 55/44. exit polls are showing 50/50.

how does that happen? >> number one, sometimes there's a police take in the data collection. we have very good people that do this. but the key part of the exit poll you have cautious, and that's why you always say you want results first to match up. people vote an exit poll. as they exit, you interview them. but they volunteer. they select you if you will. >> it's not everybody -- >> a pollster who is calling 500 households in the state, the pollster selects them based on the statistical model. if you're standing outside the polling place with the clipboard, five people come out, two people might say yes, three others say no, maybe they're grumpy, they don't trust the media, or they're late for work. you have to adjust it and one way you adjust is when you first get results and that's what we did. >> very different. >> what happened, who knows. you know, one theory is republicans don't trust the media and so they don't want to talk to you.

the other part is barrett voters think they're part of the revenue and they're prodder and more -- part of the revolution and they're prouder and more part of the campaign. >> and they thought 50/50, now it doesn't appear close at all. in fact, governor walker won by a bigger margin than first time around. >> i think this was a one group of people not a surprise to is the people at the white house, barack obama which is why you didn't see him in wisconsin over the course of the last week. the tweet was all you needed to know in the president's confidence in this elect. >> you're referring to the tweet last night, look, i'm rooting for you barrett, good-bye. >> yeah. it was as tepid of an endorsement and an effort as you can imagine. but one that i think said he wasn't going to completely give up. i was getting a lot of e-mail messages today, people were holding on hope, talking about

turnout, talking about some of the long lines in different places. but you know at the end of the day, labor unions can do a very good job. they can get us 47, 46%, you know, almost there. but you really got to also reach out and bring some people across the finish line. we have seen that time and time again over the course of the last 20 years. >> john avlon, as jamal was just talking, you heard john king was mouthing barack obama is going to pay for not going there. you think? >> he could pay for it. he didn't have their back. if the labor union is a big part of the democratic base, in a lot of the very close states, he didn't have their back, he wouldn't take a risk for them, why should they take a risk for him? >> yeah. that's the argument reince priebus talking about on our air. barrett wasn't the first choice, they were backing a different candidate. this contributes to the lack of spending. the dnc not pulling out the cash

and boots on the ground that they could. one of the major factors driving -- throughout the whole recall, the rnc, they have a lot of wisconsinites in the leadership. these are local elections. they're able to deploy national resources to. that's a significant advantage when it comes to days like today. >> gloria? >> erin, can i make the point that mitt romney didn't exactly show up in wisconsin either. i think you had -- >> fair point. >> you had -- you know, you had both of these candidates who quite frankly were not willing to make a solid bet on the outcome and they didn't -- they didn't want to take a risk. i think both of them were cautious. yes, the republican national apparatus put an awful lot more money into this. scott walker himself was a fund-raising machine. and could do that quite easily. but, you know, look, mitt romney wasn't there either.

of course now republicans, mitt romney released a statement within a nano second saying this is great for the country and so goes wisconsin so goes the rest of the country. so, you know, it's clear that mitt romney as a result of this will probably be spending more time in the state of wisconsin and so will president obama trying to defend what's natural democratic turf. >> reihan, do you think there will be some donor fatigue? winners get more money. will it backfire? this is something that president obama could say, look, we don't have as much money, but that's because of all the big fat cats are supporting mitt romney and sort of get that resurgence of people who sort of want to fight against big money in politics. >> even before we had any results, erin, you had david axelrod talking about the fund-raising advantage on the part of republicans and other pro walker allies in wisconsin. not mentioning the enormous fund-raising capacity and the cash on hand that the obama

campaign has. but you say that, you complain about the fund-raising in order to encourage the almost 90% of donors from the 2008 cycle who haven't donated to the obama campaign this cycle. they have a real problem with enthusiasm among those voters and it's very shrewd of them try to get at least some of the folks to get active, to get in this race this time around. one thing i want to throw out as well, erin, we talked about the special elections and how they might foretell general election results. harris wofford won in washington against dick thornburgh who was a member of president bush's cabinet and that election was something that, you know, there was no guarantee that it was going to lead to bill clinton's victory in 1992. but that was an election that showed that wait a second, there's something softening about the president's support this time around. president bush was the guy who won the gulf war. he was someone who is seen as very popular. that was a sign, an early sign, wait a second, something has

changed here. that doesn't necessarily mean that the special election means anything grand or big, but wisconsin is in the upper midwest. this is a state that the democrats have fared very well in. they fared well in in 2008. yeah, you have to do everything you can. talk about fund-raising, try to get your base excited, try to get them think, gosh, the dangerous old republicans are going to come after us unless we get active and motivated. this could be advantageous for team obama. >> a malcolm gladwell tipping point or not? hind sight is 20/20. scott walker is going to come out and give his victory speech. he's politely waiting for mayor barrett to finish his concession speech. great shot.

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and we are back. as you can see looking at the podium where governor scott walker will soon come to give his victory speech. he is projected as the winner of the recall. a winner by even the bigger margin when he first won back in 2010 that's a strong mandate. final results aren't in, but

right now we have a winning of about 55% to 44% for the mayor of milwaukee, mayor barrett. what's interesting about this is it was seen as sort of a proxy for the power of union -- against unions, austerity. john king, you have looked at from the exit polls which by the way were not indicative of how this came out, who voted by income and it's surprising. >> the exit polls were weighted anti-walker, pro-barrett. you know, almost two-thirds of the vote for walker. $55,000 to $75,000, your middle class voters a split among the 30 to 50, 50-49. and among those who make between 75 and $100,000 a year, it is governor walker who wins. 52% to 48%. so if you're studying this going forward, key voting bloc, key constituencies you're talking about middle class, mostly white voters. if you're the republicans you're saying that's a building block.

how do we build on it until november? >> you can't just look by income group, you should be receptive to the president's message of fairness, you're not necessarily going to vote democrat. >> and even though it was a referendum, right now walker and the fellow conservatives are going to say that gamble paid off. we'll continue. other governors will take their cue from this. democrats it's a wake-up call. if you thought this would be a cake walk, think again. >> jamal, what do you take away from that? the exact income level, the union families to be the people who would be receptive to mayor barrett's message, barack obama's message on taxation, voted republican. and what is the lesson that the president just pragmatically needs to take from that? >> i think the lesson for the president here is if you look at the poll numbers, at least the numbers i just saw, i think 17% of barack obama voters voted for

governor walker. i mean, people are voting for walker, but they're still saying they're going to support the president when it comes time to november. maybe this has more to do with local and state politics than it has to do with national politics. but you can learn a lot from a special election. and it's going to be up to the democrats in the state to really figure out what they did wrong and compensate for that to make sure they have the kind of ground game and messaging that will work in november. >> gloria, this is still amazing though. i know this happens all the time, but taking a step back i say it's amazing you can have republican governors that always go democrat. how people do people get their arms around that? you think people will vote one way or the other. not so. oh, sorry, gloria, before you go, looks like the gloovernor i walking out. it looks like his wife and two sons who is introducing governor walker. well, you heard his wife say it. and the governor should be walking out. there he is right there.

he's going to give his victory speech while he celebrates with his family there. 65% of precincts reporting, about 55% to 44%, that's wider than the margin he won back in 2010 and not reflective of the exit polls which indicated about a 50/50 split. so let's see what he says. here is governor walker. wow. what a crowd. first of all, first of all, i

want to thank god for his abundant grace. next, i particularly want to thank not only you here, but people across the state. i want to thank you for your prayers because for the last year and a half, the thing that has sustained tonette and i and matt and alex is not just at campaign events, but at factories and farms. i have met people at every one of those stops and what has sustained us is people many times, people i never met before come off the line, come off the farm and say, governor, we're praying for you and your family. i can't tell you what that means for me. and speaking of my family, how about keeping tonette as the first lady of wisconsin?

she has been a rock. she is so courageous. so strong. i'm so glad more than 20 years ago on may 1, 1992, she agreed to have that first date with me and it's been heaven ever since. together we're proud to have two sons. i was going to say boys, but they're not boys anymore. two sons, matt, alex. they have been through a lot this last year and a half. i couldn't be more proud of them. matt is going to graduate on saturday and alex is going to be a senior -- they have been spectacular. tonette mentioned the rest of the family. my mom and dad, i know you have my mom's chocolate chip cookies. my mom and dad, my brother

david. my sister-in-law maria. my two beautiful nieces, isabella and eva. my father-in-law, tony. to all my family here. to so many of the long-term friends, so many who lifted us up, even when times were tough. we say thank you for all of them. >> thank you, scott, thank you scott! >> well, thank you. >> thank you, scott, thank you scott! >> thank you. >> thank you, scott, thank you, scott! >> it's great to see so many kids out here, because that's what it is all about. faith, family, freedom. i want to thank our tremendous lieutenant governor rebecca kleefisch. to rebecca, to her husband state representative joe kleefisch, their two beautiful daughters, thank you to them for standing up with us as well.

for the proud taxpayers of wisconsin. i want to thank my incredible staff, both on the campaign and the cabinet. and our capital staff. to all the tremendous volunteers from all across this state. tonette talked about more than four million voter contact, the staff, the supports. we cannot thank you enough. thank you to here. that's a tent outside with an overflow because we couldn't violate the fire code here, but there are people all over this area and all across the state. on behalf of our family, we say thank you to all of you. and thanks to all of you and everybody at home watching tonight. thanks to all the people who yet again entrusted in me your vote as the governor to be the 45th and continue to be the 45th governor of the great state of wisconsin.

i want to tell you something though. just let me share with you a quick little story. last fall, tonette and i had a chance, i was going to a governor association meeting. we had a chance to travel to philadelphia. i went to independence hall. as a kid, we drew up in a small town where i loved to study history. we didn't have a lot of money, so we didn't get to go to places like philadelphia and washington. for me it was the first trip to independence hall. i got to tell you i was so touched. i stood in there and i looked at the desks and i looked in the chairs. even though i was a kid growing up, i thought of our founders as superheroes. these were ordinary people, ordinary people who did something quite extraordinary. they didn't just risk their political careers, they didn't just risk their businesses. they literally risked their lives for the freedom we hold so

dear today and the men and women in uniform in this country defend every single day. moments like that remind me why america and why wisconsin are so great. you see, what has made our country unbelievable, what has made the united states of america exceptional, what has made the united states arguably one of the greatest countries in the history of the world. is that in times of crisis, be they economic or fiscal, be they military or spiritual, in times of crisis, what has made america amazing has been the fact that throughout our history, throughout the more than 200 years of our history there have been men and women of courage who stood up and decided it was more important to look out for the future of their children and

grand children than their own political futures. and what has sustained them? what has sustained them here in wisconsin across our country has been when this have been leaders of courage. what has sustained them is they were good and decent people who stood with them, shoulder to shoulder and arm to arm. that's what you have done for wisconsin. and for america. tonight, we tell wisconsin, we tell our country and we tell people all across the globe that voters really do want leaders who stand up and make the tough decisions. but now, but now it is time to move on and move forward in

wisconsin. tomorrow i'll meet with my cabinet in the state's capitol and we'll renew our commitment to help small businesses grow jobs in this state. we'll renew our commitment to help grow the quality of life for all of our citizens. both those who voted for me and those who voted for someone else. because tomorrow, tomorrow is the day after the election. and tomorrow we are not no longer opponents. tomorrow we are one as wisconsinites so together we can move wisconsin forward. a few minutes ago i talked to mayor tom barrett. no, no, no. no. the election is over.

i talked to the mayor and we had a good talk and i said, i'm committed to working with you to help the city of milwaukee and to help the state of wisconsin. tomorrow. the election is over. it's time to move wisconsin forward. i have learned much over the last year and a half. there's no doubt about it. you know, early in 2011 i rushed in to try to fix things before i talked about them. for years, too many politicians not only in madison, but in washington and beyond talked about things but never fixed them. well, but i want to tell you, looking ahead, we know it's important to do both. looking ahead to tackle the challenges that face all the people of wisconsin. we're both going to be committed to talking together about how to solve problems and then working together we're going to move forward with the solutions that put our state back on the right

track towards more freedom and more prosperity for all of our people. bringing our state together will take some time. there's just no doubt about it. but i want to start out right away. in fact, next week i'm going to invite all the members of the state legislature, republican and democrat alike. what better way to bring people together than to invite them over for some brats and some burgers, right? and then maybe a little bit of good wisconsin beer as well. because i believe there is more that unites us than divides us. we can move on, move forward. i believe that for the sake of our children and our grandchildren, now is the time for us to come together. to tackle the challenges that face our small businesses, to tackle the challenges that face our families and our businesses and our seniors and all the

people who care about the future of this state. now is the time to move forward. i've got to tell you i'm committed to it. i'm committed not only to you here, but to everybody back at home. whether you voted for me or not. i'm committed because the most important reason i ran for governor two years ago, the most important reason i was willing to make the tough decisions and why i'm committed to working with anyone and everyone in this state are the two young men standing on the stage back behind me. i believe -- i believe as i believe people across this state do and we have had amazing numbers turn out to vote, but i believe what inspires in this stays is we work hard every day. those who are moms and dads, we go to work and which work hard every single day.

not just for a paycheck. not just to put food on the table. not just to put clothe on the backs of our kids. we work hard for the same reason you work hard and people all across the state work hard. we work hard because we want our children to inherit a better life, a better home, a better community and thanks to your vote today, a better state than the one we inherited. together, we're going to move wisconsin forward. thank you. god bless you. and god bless the great state of wisconsin. ♪ >> all right. you were listening to governor scott walker of wisconsin giving his victory speech. that appeared to be a hey, look, i know everyone is watching, i know it's being taken on cnn as a dry run for a -- in the national race. maybe for vice president. >> i'm not sure he wants to be

on the ballot again this year. interesting part of the speech. i'm right, i won. this is a national model, look at me. the second half is oh, yeah, i have to get up and be governor tomorrow of a polarized state. we're going to bring in the state legislature, we'll have brats and beer. he wants to celebrate. but he has to be governor for a while. it's a tough state tomorrow. >> all right. we'll debrief what this means and what that speech means. that was strategically done. we'll be back with our panel in a moment. would be on that list. in 25th place. let's raise academic standards across the nation. let's get back to the head of the class. let's solve this.

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breaking news tonight. cnn can report that governor scott walker has won the recall fierce battle in wisconsin. up to $80 million spent on both sides. exit polls have showed an even split, but that's not the way it appears to be with 88% of the precincts right now. 54% to 45% at this point. it was a tryout for a national speech. dana bash was there. there was a lot of celebrating. the big national republican song playing. dana, what is the mood there and

he was talking about there being so many people they had to have overflow tents. was it that crowded? >> extremely crowded. erin, i was covering a lot of the republican primaries. presidential primaries at the beginning of this year. saw nothing that compares to this that compares to the size, the scope and the stage craft and the energy. people here have been absolutely riled up. no question about it. and you really felt it. it was palpable here in this room. in fact, you can probably see behind me the governor is wading into the crowd, he is still shaking hands. you heard him calm people down. he said it's over, trying to say, we want to -- not do this anymore. and reach out across the aisle. it was hard for him to calm people here down. before he came out, mayor barrett was speaking. we took some of it live i know. people in the crowd here were booing and booing and booing. this is a very, very polarized state. and it certainly -- that

particular part of it can be indicative of what happens in november. >> gloria, what's your take on the governor's speech? was it really a tryout if your view for a national stage, vice presidential stage? what did you hear? >> well, you know, he's on the national stage whether he wants to be or not. i would gather since he won he would want to be. i don't see him wanting to go through another election as john said earlier. but i do think that he could be a very effective surrogate for mitt romney on the campaign trail. i mean, this wasn't just about collective bargaining. this election started off with the anger of the labor unions about this governor trying to take away public employees' collective bargaining rights but it devolved into something else. there then became anger on the other side of the ledger and the discussion sort of shifted, not only from the public employee unions, but it became about jobs

and taxing and spending and the role of government in our lives. about what government should and should not be doing for us. that's the kind of conversation that mitt romney is going to be having in this election against president obama. so i would have to say that scott walker would be kind of in the top tier of surrogates for him to preach that. >> reihan salam, how do you judge the tryout? >> well, like gloria i don't think he's necessarily angling to be the vice presidential nominee or anything like that. but yeah, certainly going forward if he continues to enjoy some political success, might he consider running for president at some future point? perhaps. but you got the sense and again this could be my impression, but you've got the sense that here's a guy who ran for governor not just in 2010, but ran in 2006. he's been thinking of the way that government works in wisconsin for a long time. he was the county executive in milwaukee county. in that role he had to deal with some of the struggles

surrounding collective bargaining. he's been thinking very deeply just as chris christie as someone who had been around new jersey politics for a very long time. once you get into that role, once you're actually in a position to do something to affect change, well, that's a very powerful position to be in. i think that's why he said, look, maybe i didn't talk about it that much, maybe i moved too far, too fast. he was itching to get something done at the level of wisconsin. >> look at chris christie, he's known as a bruiser, but he was forced to work with other people on the other side. he didn't show an ability to work with anybody. that's why we had a recall. >> the fact of a recall is a repudiation. a million people signed the signature, but right now he's a republican hero for taking the policy steps. the real question is can he pursue a further agenda without being so polarization? you heard a focus, tomorrow is a new day. i'm having all the members of

the legislature over. don't boo my opponent, tom barrett. move wisconsin forward, borrowing prime minister brmbo w borrowing barack obama's slogan. he knows he needs to start unifying his state. >> thanks to all of you. a preacher in minnesota he said he's for gay marriage and he was repudiated by the congregation. a man standing up for what he believes in. companies have to invest in making things. infrastructure, construction, production. we need it now more than ever. chevron's putting more than $8 billion dollars back in the u.s. economy this year. in pipes, cement, steel, jobs, energy. we need to get the wheels turning. i'm proud of that. making real things... for real. ...that make a real difference. ♪

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and now the cost of supporting same-sex marriage. a church leader in minnesota spoke out publicly seven years ago in support of gay couples and their right to marry. it's something he believes in. and this was just of massachusetts became first state in the country to legalize gay marriage. reverend white never expected what happened after this. he had a predominantly black congregation and they abandoned him, they didn't agree. now he's on the verge of losing his church. so we sent our david mattingly outfront to find out if the reverend regrets what he said. ♪ >> reporter: the grace community

united church of christ in st. paul, minnesota, has seen better days. the empty pews, signs of a congregation shattered. by a single issue. >> categorically they said i cannot be a part of a church that accepts same-sex marriage. >> reporter: reverend oliver white voted in favor of accepting same-sex marriage at the 2005 national meeting of the united church of christ. the vote was historic. the fallout, immediate. white lost two-thirds of his predominantly african-american congregation. >> they thought i was a heretic, that i was not leading them to christ. >> reporter: seven years later, white's congregation still has not come back. i was invited to watch what could be the last service before the church closes its doors for good. what i saw was a far cry from the days when the seats were full. when services started a few minutes ago, there were only

about 20 people in the pews. a few people have come in since then. but more than half attending today are visitors. the church is now in financial ruin. the few members that still remain say they couldn't overcome a stigma. >> just hush hush, you don't talk about it. >> right. >> if you're gay, you're wrong. it is very much -- very prevalent in the black church that you do not talk about it. >> reporter: you pray about this a lot? >> every day. >> reporter: what do you pray for right now? >> $200,000. >> reporter: $200,000. that's what white says will keep his church afloat. but he has just a few days left to raise it. >> $2. >> reporter: little miracles arrive in the mail every day. donations along with words of encouragement and at times temptation. this man was going to pay all your bills, all your worries would be gone. >> all my worries would be gone.

>> reporter: all you had to do what? >> renounce what i have been saying and come back to god as he said. >> reporter: did you think about it? >> well, maybe for one-tenth of a second. ♪ ♪ we shall overcome >> reporter: better to be a heretic in the eyes of many of his fellow christians than he says to preach what he believes is a lie. david mattingly, cnn, minneapolis, minnesota. >> pretty amazing story. what would you have done if you were given that choice? thanks so much for watching. "piers morgan" starts right after this break. [ woman ] for the london olympic games, our town had a "brilliant" idea.

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