human beings can deliver. so until there's a zero tolerance policy in sports, we're always going to have players that try their luck. some get away with it and get bigger and stronger. and then that pressures others to compete and so more people cheat. it's a terrible and vicious cycle. >> tonight, who's the real obama? what you don't know about the leader of the free world. i'm talk to david marannis, the best selling author. what's different from the stories the president told in his own book? >> i said no, mr. president, i actually complimented you, i called it literature. >> plus, will zimmerman make bail or stay behind bars? >> he may spend the rest of his time in jail. >> what's changed and what hasn't since the l.a. riots 20 years ago. >> we became a better society

through what rodney king went through. >> plus, a big announcement of what's next for or seen ya. plus, the family feud to end all fields this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight. president obama is at the g-20 summit in mexico. we also learned -- this is not the story the president told in his best-seller. david marannis' book differs from that account. he writes about his friends, his classmates, and he found himself face-to-face with the president in the oval office to talk about what he'itten. welcome. it's a fascinating book. it ends in 1998 as obama's driving to harvard. obama doesn't even appear in the

first seven chapters. the confrontation isn't quite the right word. a fascinating book to read next to the dreams book. because there are at least someone counted 38 significant parts of barack obama's version of events you take issue with. the republicans have jumped all over this. saying this is evidence he's made up half of his story. what is the reality about your findings in totality? in terms of the veracity of barack obama's story? >> there are several true of almost anyone you would study. in this case, there's the pathology that obama himself portrayed in his memoir. as an historian, my goal is not to fact check all of that but to tell the truth.

and let the chips fall where they may. in the case of barack and his memoir, the mythologies range from early on, for instance in high school, in his memoir, he says that he wasn't a starter on his basketball team because he played black and the coach coached white. of course i discovered in fact barack obama was about the eighth or ninth best player on that team. that he was one of the few players who couldn't dunk the ball. so it had nothing to do with race. everything in his book is seen through the lens of race and that sometimes distorts things. like the girlfriend that he writes about in his memoir in new york city he defines her through the lens of race. as a white woman who doesn't understand the anger of black people. then a completely different perspective on race. the other mythology of the right wing birtherings.

the fact he was born in honolulu on august 4, 1961, is indisputable. >> you have a lot of detail on that. you've spoken to people who were in the hospital. >> in the hospital who said the remarkable thing was stanley had a baby. that's the name his mother. the fact that someone named stanley would have a little baby is what people remember from that. there's one other document that's been ignored. which is the immigration and naturalization service was watching barack obama sr. during that whole period. he was on visa from kenya. he was trouble for the i.n.s. there's no way he could have left hawaii and had a baby somewhere else and come back. it doesn't fit with the documentings. >> when he wrote his huge selling book, he did have a piece of -- saying, look, this is not 100% accurate book. i have morphed various parts together.

various characters. it's very much a memoir done in that way. not historical record. how much should we factor that in to perhaps some of the things you've unearthed that aren't quite right? >> he did say that in his introduction to his book. >> does that give you license, though, to rechange the narrative? >> he says he only changed the narrative -- used characters and compressed chronology in order to make the story smoothly but in fact he did it for other reasons. when he would use -- exaggerate or enhance the role of a black figure in his life just to advance the story when, in fact that person wasn't much of a figure in his life, that sort of thing. >> how significant is it he has done that? opponents will say, come on, this is actually quite interesting. because barack obama certainly portrayed himself as coming

through quite a struggle when he was young. your book makes it clear actually it wasn't a struggle at all. >> piers, we live in a really sick modern political culture. what happens is the opponents will dismiss my book and then pick every single thing in it that's negative about barack obama. i can't control it. i'm just trying to write the truth about it. i gave him the introduction of my book to read. it talks about sort of those issues. and he said, david, it's an interesting introduction you called my book fiction. i said no, mr. president, i complimented you, i called itly the rate ur. there's a big difference between accurate rigorous historical biography and memoir. that's all i'm doing. >> what is the barack obama like from what you discovered from 350 separate interviews with people who knew him very well? >> he's introspective, he's cautious, he's what i call an observer in his own life. his mother was an anthropologist.

he has some of that characteristic. where you're both participating in life but you're both observing it from above or at the same time. it makes life seem sort of surreal in some instances. he's even president and observing. he also has a writer's sensibility which is much the same thing. you're participating in life but also observing it. that makes him cautious. it makes him a little bit -- seem a little bit cool at times, all of which comes across in his presidency. >> did you find him basically an honest man? >> i did. i found that with the caveat of his memoir he took license. he dealt with the questions honestly. he was not afraid of the truth. if i presented him with something, he didn't try to say no, that's not the way it was, he said, you're probably right. >> he talked about his drug abuse which he admitted to himself. you think he has a free pass on that to some degree. >> well, it's a different

generation it the bill clinton generation had it a little bit tougher with that. clinton said he didn't inhale. which actually from my reporting of that book he didn't inhale. >> because you wrote a -- >> barack obama's response, you know, a generation later is that was the point, wasn't it, so i think that the country has moved on that. although interestingly when the details of obama's marijuana use came out, people who support legalization were sort of upset with him that he's done so much dope smoking. >> how did you find the comparison between president obama and president clinton, having now immersed yourself in their lives? there are parallels. largely dysfunctional families without fathers. clinton, though, from a much younger age than obama. >> completely. clinton ran for every possible office in high school to the point where his principal had to tell him you can't run for any more offices.

at georgetown, he ran for class president so often his classmates got sick of him. obama never ran for anything till he got to harvard law school. you didn't see any political involvement at all. finally, he's president of harvard law school. so it came much later. what i found most fascinating in contrasting them, as you said, they both came out of dysfunctional situations. bill clinton dealt with that by just plowing forward. forgiving himself every day and the world around him. not dealing with the contradictions of his own life. that ability to survive and go on got him to the white house, got him in trouble in the white house, as we all know. then he had the survival mechanism to get out of it. obama by con tracht spent ten years of his young life, from the time he got to college, through chicago, going to harvard law school, those ten years intensively introspectively trying to resolve his own contradictions. he was pretty good at it.

he worked it out. >> what is the single biggest negative you think you unearthed in this book? what is the one thing you thought, you know what, that isn't good? >> well, i didn't see anything venal. so it's all relative. but what i did see was in extraordinary caution, and -- well, a little bit -- it's interesting because he always dismissed his mother as being naive but he came into the presidency with a bit of being naive. in my book, in my interview, he said he couldn't find a reason to exist if not for that universality. >> -- identified, you see that now in the presidency -- >> with an occasional bold action. >> like bin laden. >> like bin laden. health care. he sort of holds back quite a

bit and then takes action. that frustrates his supporters. >> conversely, what are the big positives you found are consistent? >> what i've found that's positive largely is he is a human being who's growing and learning. i'm run across a lot of politicians who just become more so of whatever they are. i've seen obama has the capacity to react and learn and grow. it's a slower process with him but i've seen it take place. >> mitt romney is accused of being very secretive with his life. interesting thing about obama is you could level the same charge. he is actually not quite the open book you may assume from somebody who's written -- >> that's kind of an interesting paradox with him. he's written this long memoir, revealing so much about himself. and yet in some ways not really. he's a very cool character. and his white house has been fairly closed.

it's not an easy operation to get in and see what's really going on in there. and in so many ways that creates, you know, sort of frustrations for journalists. >> how normal is barack obama would you say? i mean, people sort of pick out all the headline grab -- the basketball pot smoking group and so on. actually these are all the little bombshells which leap out of the page. but in terms of his overall persona, he's already struck me as a fairly regular kind of guy. >> you know, i wouldn't put those in the outrageous category either. growing up, playing basketball -- >> pretty normal. >> so his opponents are the people who hate him. there's a significant group that do for various reasons, try to portray him as sort of abnormal, un-american. there couldn't be a more american life in so many ways. it is an immigrant country.

he has -- he does represent all of the different strands of american life. and of the globe. and, you know, i think that his family -- you know, his life is an arc for a home. he started with a dysfunctional family. without knowing his father. with his mother off and gone. you can see in this book the gradual arc toward finding his home, which is chicago, personally, michelle. she's sort of not even in this book and yet she's the magnet of this whole life. you can see him leading in that direction. >> the obvious question when you get to the end is, is there going to be volume 2? >> there will be but i don't do quickie books and i want to wait till the documents are out and i can do it right. >> well, it's one to do research. it's an amazing piece of work. it takes you to harvard. the fact you've managed to find so much fascinating material about him is extraordinary given all the attention he's had. i congratulate you. it's a great read.

barack obama. the story by david marannis. come back for the next one in four years time. coming up next, george zimmerman's jailhouse phone calls revealed. [ male announce] imagine facing the day with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine living your life with less chronic low back pain. imagine you, with less pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one non-narcotic pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain. tell your doctor right away if your mood worsens, you have unusual changes in mood or behavior or thoughts of suicide. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. cymbalta is not approved for children under 18. people taking maois or thioridazine or with uncontrolled glaucoma should not take cymbalta. taking it with nsaid pain relievers, aspirin, or blood thinners may increase bleeding risk. severe liver problems, some fatal, were reported. signs include abdominal pain and yellowing skin or eyes. tell your doctor about all your medicines,

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you know what's exciting? graduation. when i look up into my students faces, i see pride. you know, i have done something worthwhile. when i earned my doctorate through university of phoenix, that pride, that was on my face. i am jocelyn taylor. i'm committed to making a difference in people's lives, and i am a phoenix. visit phoenix.edu to find the program that's right for you. enroll now. trayvon martin case transcript and jailhouse phone calls and accused shooter george zimmerman and his wife were released.

instructing his wife to transfer money between bank accounts. this is george zimmerman's defense attorney. it's his first national tv interview since zimmerman's wife was arrested. welcome back to the show. obviously, a pretty significant -- >> piers, how are you? >> it's good to talk to you again. a significant day in this case because the transcripts are either very significant or they're not. you're maybe the man who can clear this up. the prosecution clearly think they are. that is why zimmerman is back in jail. that's why his wife is in hot water. what is your reaction to these transcripts? >> they're certainly significant to the one minor issue, if you will, of whether or not shelly new about the amount of money that was in the accounts. clearly they show she did. and we acknowledge that literally four days after the

bond hearing so by the 27th of may we had acknowledged that. >> the prosecution say when they talk, as they do, let's play a bit of -- we may as well hear this and i'll talk to you. >> i thought you said there was something like 300 total. >> huh-uh, ken inflated. >> okay, so total everything, how much are we looking at? >> like $155. >> clearly, when they talk about $300 or $155, the prosecutions say you can add three oughtoughts here. is the reality they do have hundreds of thousands of dollars? >> there's no question they were talking in this sort of simplistic kind of code where they were talking about $155 when, without question, they

were talking about $155,000. >> right. so would you -- >> we've never contested that. >> are they deliberately talking in code to hide the truth? as the prosecution clearly believe? >> if you really want to look into it, i would ask the question, who are they hiding the truth from? maybe shelly had her own reason. in those 30 hours of tapes, there's not one phone call that evidences their intent to deceive the judge. now, granted, they do not tell the judge the absolute truth. if you listen to the tapes, there's not one tape there that suggests anything. there's not one tape that we're going to bring out that shows george said before you testify, pray first and tell the truth. obviously, it didn't come out that day. it came out four days later.

but it truly has so little to do with what counts in this case, which is what happened the night that trayvon martin passed away. >> it does matter if the sense it's about their integrity as witnesses, as people telling the truth or otherwise. there's no doubt, i watched the live hearings, they were asked about the earnings and the amount of money they had. clearly, you were not given the inpression they had much money at all. which may have factored into the judge's behavior that day. if you were putting a prosecutorial hat on, you can see why the prosecution would be pretty agitated. >> no question, they did not tell a complete truth to the judge. and that attacks their credibility. and credibility is always an issue in a case like this. grant you, credibility only deals with those subjective issues and the objective issue, the witness statements, the

injuries, are more objective. they're not as susceptible to interpretation. there is no doubt, as you say, they did a great blow to their credibility in this case by being as frightened as they were and not trusting the judge and not trusting the system. >> it doesn't help you, to be brutally frank, that they appear to have lied in this, because when it comes to george zimmerman defending himself and saying x, y, z, about what happened with martin, there will be critics now, understandably, saying, why should we believe you. >> absolutely true. i only hope those critics give it a more global perspective which is what he was going through and what his family was going through, as to why they may not have been completely honest about the money, one, and sort of what they were facing. the state was attempting to keep zimmerman in jail for the entire

year before the trial. he thrown out of his job. so, again, sounds like i'm cusing his behavior. maybe an explanation and literally four days later, the first time i spoke to him about the money, he owned up to it right away and transferred the money without question. so i think that sort of lends rehabilitation as to why he did what he did. >> how confident do you feel, mark, that he clearly -- they lied to you as well? for a period of time. they didn't tell you the truth. how confident are you you can believe now what george zimmerman has told you about, as you say, the more serious issue of what happened that night with trayvon martin? >> i would tell you that as we know the conversation between client and lawyer are so privileged, but i will tell you this, i had never asked him a

question about that fund because i was never aware of it. four days later, when we were closing down his internet presence, he was immediately straight forward with it. he told me about it and transferred the money. so, do i think he's being straight forward with me? all the evidence and statements i've had support that. >> do you fear, now that he will not be let out on bail? that he could just be, now, in jail for possibly up to two years before this s to trial. >> judge lefter put his neck out for george zimmerman. there's no question about that. he allowed him to stay basically in secrecy. he allowed him some freedoms upon his release. george and shelly maybe didn't realize that favor was coming. might have believed their mistakes more.

we now know the earliest he may be released is the 29th. spent a month in jail. you're right, he may spend the rest of his time in jail if george lester decides he can no longer trust him. >> want to talk to you about other parts of the transcript. particularly the revelation that george zimmerman suggests to his wife have you got the bulletproof vest. want to get your reaction to that. ♪ how are things on the west coast? ♪

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get on it asap 'cause you know the, first of all, i want you wearing one. >> okay. >> as uncomfortable as it is, i want you wearing one. second of all, i want o'meara having one. >> okay. >> and third, i would like to have one at least here. >> absolutely. >> so, mark, obviously pretty concerning, that george zimmerman believes he needed to have bulletproof vest for his

wife and for you. what was your reaction when you saw the transcript? >> well, piers, they truly take this very seriously. there have been a number of threats both by e-mail, television message, to them, and they're concerned about it. and i understand they want to protect those they care about. i'm in that category now as well. >> are you concerned about serious threats to your life? >> this is what i do for a living. i've represented people much, much more nasty than george zimmerman ever has been or even considered by those who don't know him. i just hope -- i believe in the process. george now does as well. i can't ignore the fact i have a heightened level of concern. we're going to do our job. let a good jury decide. >> one thing that companies over in the transcripts, six lengthy transcripts released today, they

have a solid marriage still, george and shelly. how would you describe their relationship? >> they are good. trauma brings people even closer together. i know in my own life when i've had trauma and whatnot it brings you closer together so i think that may have a common goal of trying to show who he is and not who people have said he was. i think that will bring them closer together. >> let's move to the other big story which is the jerry sandusky case. you've obviously been watching this from afar. the prosecution rested. the defense got up today and have tried to pick holes in the witness's testimony and time lines and so on. also trying to play out this affliction they claim jerry sandusky suffers from, histrionic personality disorder. what do you think of that strategy by the defense?

>> it may be the one strategy they have. it's a very difficult one. you've got to convince a jury all of the behaviors by him are explained away by some personality trait. juries have a tough time with that. we have a standard of insanity. something less than that could explain away that type of behavior is going to be very difficult. >> how credible have you found the witnesses so far? >> the witnesses for the prosecution i found them to be very credible. the core testimony has been very believable. of course very consistent with other witness's testimony. >> the prosecutors have apparently asked for the unaired portions of the infamous interview that jerry sandusky gave to nbc's bob costas. when i read what hadn't aired, many people are saying it's hard to disagree.

it borders on a confusion what he is saying there. how relevant do you think that can be? >> i think it's very relevant. i think it's probably going to come in. we need to question whether or not he's going to testify. if that happens and i think it will come in, and i think that type of off-hand almost ad hoc statement is going to be or could be very devastating to him because, like you said, it is very close to saying, i didn't do it to everyone. >> yeah, he basically implies he didn't touch all the boys. but the implication is he did touch some of them in an inappropriate way. >> the prosecution is certainly's going bring that implication to a jury and i think a jury can consider that and it's one of those statements out there that the defense i'm sure never wanted out. >> the, i'm sure, defense are weighing up now the possibility of putting him on the stand. would you if you were defending

jerry sandusky risk him on the stand? >> these are very difficult cases to have a client or deft testifying. there are so many land mines that are going to occur. my gut would be i would not put a client on the stand in a case like this unless there was some reason why it absolutely had to happen. realizing the enormity of the risk. and there is just too much risk in this case. >> i think you're absolutely right. mark o'meara, thanks for your time. coming up, rodney king and the l.a. riots. arsenio hall remembers. ♪ what started as a whisper

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have you forgiven in your mind the policeman? >> i have. america has forgiven me for so many things. and gave me so many chances. i've been in the country all my life. one of the wonderful things

about it you get to have a second chance. >> that was rodney king. he died at his los angeles show over the weekend. my next guest remembers that time very well. arsenio hall. great to have you on the show. a major announcement about your career a little while later. first, let's talk about rodney king. because i felt very sad when i heard the news about his death. i spoke to him very recently. in many ways, he was this iconic symbol, wasn't he, for race in modern america? >> not only an iconic symbol but i think he actually unbeknownst to him when he was doing it, i think he saved the city. that whole collaboration came about through the problems of that night. we became a better society for

what rodney king went through. you know, that will be his legacy. it sounded corny then but i'm glad he said it. >> people have try to make it about race. do you below it will -- >> well, i think in this country, it's hard to escape race whenever you have a child who's killed by a man who is not an african-american. race works its way into things you would never, ever believe. but i love the direction that it's going because we're

starting to get the truth. and that's what's important ultimately, that we get the truth, and we make sure that our children don't continue dying senselessly. >> you knew rodney king well. you took natural a vh1 documentary with him. take a look at this. let's watch a clip. >> you could see smoke and you realize, okay, it's on. those people in beverly hills. there's people in the big pink hotel on sun set that were nervous. because the riot wasn't confining itself just to the ghetto, you know. black people were saying suppose we don't just [ bleep ] up our neighborhood. >> times have changed. one of the crucial parts, it was captured on video. i think that's played a huge part in tackling blatant racism in the streets. because now there are cctv cameras everywhere.

everyone has a cell phone which has a camera or a video. >> yeah, those little phones have changed our lives. i remember when this happened and i thought to myself, oh, we got 'em now. we finally have something on video that is impossible to capture on video. because then it was rare a man named holiday had a camera charged and ready. and then i think this concept of cameras contributed to the anger and the unrest. because the fact we had it on video and this man was still -- these men were still set free created a big problem. >> rodney king, i mean, he was quite a sad character in many ways. i definitely got that feeling. he didn't want to be famous. he didn't want to be involved in that incident at all. he certainly wasn't blameless. by his own admission, he had lots of problems with substance abuse, so on.

you said his legacy will be things -- people did get along better. what do you think of the way his wife unfold in the end? how much was affected by what happened that day do you think? >> you know, i felt bad for rodney. i remember b roll or footage as we call it in the business. i remember b roll of him in a pool that was circulating a while back. i remember hearing that he loved to swim and he was comfortable in the water. the most shocking thing would be to find out that he drowned. so i guess we know all the facts. but the whole back half of his life was kind of sad. i don't think this was a bad guy, piers. i think this was a good guy. this is a guy who actually i've heard apologize to the people and happy that people forgave him for what he did.

and this is a guy who got beat, you know. he was a sweet guy. he had a good heart. >> i tweeted about him to that effect, he seemed a nice, unassuming man to me. i was shocked at some of the vitriol on twitter. saying he wasn't a nice guy. he almost deserved what happened. that's why i'm not so sure how far we've moved. i was like, wow, this is not good. >> piers, let's keep in mind, because i heard a man on the news say that this morning. this is a guy who was driving too fast. he was probably avoiding apprehension. because he had priors and he didn't want to go back to jail. but what he got is not justified. that's not what speeders get. and i don't understand people who hated him. because, hey, driving too fast and -- obviously had a substance abuse problem. the bottom line is, he didn't deserve that.

i think deep down inside there was a sweet warm heart. a lot of brothers when given a microphone and a lot of cameras wouldn't say "can't we all get along." >> i think that's absolutely right. think if that is his legacy, it's a very powerful one. may god rest his soul, rodney king. i enjoyed meeting him. it's a real tragedy his life ended so early. let's take a break. happier news. you have a massive announcement to make. i couldn't be happier. i just want to know whether it's more down to me or donald trump. don't give it away. i like the way your finger's pointing. [ woman ] for the london olympic games, our town had a "brilliant" idea.

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>> arsenio hall making his bid for celebrity apprentice. i had you on before you won and afterwards. you lit up the screen. it reminded me of the glory days when you had this amazing edgy, fast, funny talk show. all i kept thinking is, this guy should be back doing this. i believe you have an announcement for us? >> yes. i am going home mr. morgan. i am returning to cbs to the exact place i did the arsenio hall show. and i'm doing the arsenio hall show again. >> brilliant muse. i'm thrilled for you. i know what it means to you. i've had the pleasure of getting to know you have. you're a great guy. you've been itching for a chance

to go back, but do it in a new way, right? >> yes. and i want to thank you, not only for letting me come here and tell the world that i'm coming back, but i want to thank you for all your help during the apprentice. i don't know if i'm supposed to say something like this. i called you and asked for a piece of advice. you gave me advice, read everything about mr. trump. and i did. you have no idea how many times i was able to throw a quote of his at him. when you look at donald trump and you say, sir, never sit on the tarmac without a flight plan, be ready, know what you want to do. he would look at me and say, this brother is ready. and i had my -- i was ready for anything. you told me to do that. >> when did you get the offer? when did it all start to happen? >> i went to cbs about two years

ago and told them i wanted to come home. and it took a while. i had to host your show, for instance, to let people see me do that again. you allowed me to interview magic johnson and cookie johnson to talk about his 20 year announcement. it was a lot of fun, but it let people see me do it, and be reminded in a i can. little things like sitting in for a week when billy bush went away at "access holly wood." and finally the got the call, we're ready. we think we can sell this to stations. then i went away to do apprentice. that could have been the kiss of death, if you're fired the second week, maybe that tarnishes what you're creating. but you know what, the stars were aligned, and god was in the boardroom, because i won that thing. or at least i got to the end with my friend clay aiken.

and the bottom line,that was the icing on the cake, at that point all my stations signed on. i think after apprentice 52% of all my stations in america reupped and they were ready to bring me back. i'm excited. i thank you, i thank mr. trump. and i think america, because i had a lot of love and support during that. i'm having a lot of love and support to come back, i'm on cloud nine right now. this is the best. this is better than the first night of the show, it's all good right now. >> you were last on the talk show in 1994. you don't look a day older. what is the secret to you avoiding the aging process? >> i drink my own urine. no. i don't know. i saw a bomber do that, it came to mind. you know what? i live clean -- there's a part of me that thinks going away for a while kind of keeps you young. if i had stayed i'd have jay leno's hair right now.

>> arsenio, i couldn't be more thrilled for you. i think it happened to a genuinely nice guy, america is ready for arsenio part two. when will you hit the air waves? >> in 2013, the fall. i got a little time to write a theme song, get the set ready and book jay-z and beyonce's baby for the first night. >> i wish you luck but not too much because i'll be talking myself out of a job. >> you're on like 50 times all over the world. you have no problem. and you're doing a great job by the way, i love to watch you. >> thank you. i congratulate you. it's an amazing story. everyone will be thrilled to see you come back. thanks for coming on and sharing the news. arsenio hall great guy. coming up next, the biggest family feud in this country's history.

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tonight only in america, family feud.

it's the battle between the hatfields and mccoys. it began on the west virginia/kentucky border after the civil war. they fought over land rights even a stolen hog. over a dozen people killed, eight jailed and many hanged. >> you go first. certainly we can settle the feud between our families. >> the series had a stunning 14.3 million viewers. the only true mark of success reduces a casting decendent to the once mortal enemies starring in a tv show together. the story is a story of honor,