potatoes when the chains are off and nobody's chasing you. >> i think it's obvious why robert blake called me charlie potatoes i couldn't be happier. i'll change the name of the show to charlie potatoes tonight. that's all for us. be happier. that's all for us tonight. >> we begin tonight keeping them honest on the campaign trail where attack ads are flying and so is the spin. presumptive republican presidential nominee mitt romney today demanded president obama back off his attacks on romney's record at bain capital. the attacks focused on whether romney actually left the firm. the obama camp claims romney lied about his end date at bain. even suggesting his actions could be criminal. in a series of interviews on friday, romney accused of obama campaign of stooping to new lows. in an interview that aired today on cbs this morning, president

obama was asked about the negative ads his campaign was running. here's what he said. >> first of all, we've done a whole slew of positive ads that talked exactly about how we need to change our education system, how we need to change our tax code, how we need to rebuild america. how we need to promote american energy. so those just don't get attention in the news. >> the president said they've run a whole slew of ads, positive ads. we wanted to -- we wanted to check and see if maybe we'd overlooked a slew of ads either candidate was running. keeping them honest. we checked with c-mag, the consultants who track ad spending for us. they told us last week the obama campaign aired negative ads more than 19,000 times and positive ads fewer than 150 times. less than 1% of their ads were positive. according to other reports, since the general campaign began, as many as 3 in 4 of president obama's campaign ads have been negative. 3 in 4. to be sure, both campaigns are playing hard ball.

during the two weeks ending july 9th, about 89% of obama's ads carried an anti-romney message. and 94% of romney's ads criticized president obama. that's, again, according to c-mag. those are the numbers. the obama campaign, however, is spinning a different narrative. ere the word "negative" doesn't really exist. an obama campaign spokesman said they wanted to have a, quote, high brow debate about whether americans really care about. keeping them honest, all weekend long, they instead focused on attacking romney's ties to bain and his personal finances. >> he's taken advantage of every single conceivable attack shelter and loophole. >> mr. romney attested to the sec multiple times that he was the chairman, ceo and president of bain capital. >> that company also was investing in companies that "the washington post" called pioneers of outsourcing. >> if you're telling the sec you're in charge but you're telling the american people you bear no responsibility, one of

those things is not true. >> stop whining. if you want to claim bain capital as your calling card to the white house, then defend what happened to those jobs that went overseas. those jobs that were cut and eliminated. >> i don't want a pioneer in outsourcing. i want some insourcing. i want to bring companies back. >> the attacks continued on paper as well. virtually all the press releases and statements they issued on saturday and sunday hammered romney on those fronts. the obama campaign also released a new attack ad. >> i'm barack obama and i approve this message. ♪ o beautiful for spacious skies ♪ ♪ for amber waves of grain ♪ for purple mountains majesty ♪ above the fruited plain ♪ america >> in a moment we'll talk with paul begala and ari fleisher. first, david axelrod, a senior strategist for the obama campaign. i talked to him earlier.

i want to ask you about something the president said this morning on an interview for cbs. >> first of all, we've done a whole slew of positive ads that talk exactly how we need to change our education system. how we need to change our tax code. how we need to rebuild america. how we need to promote american energy. so those just don't get attention in the news. >> the consultants who track ad spending for us tell us that last week your campaign aired negative spots more than 19,000 times and positive spots fewer than 150 times. that's less than 1% positive ads. can that really be considered a slew? >> well, anderson, you've got to go back to when we began our media campaign. we began our media campaign in may. the whole month of may, we ran nothing but positive ads. right now, we're running ads, some of which are comparative. i don't know how the tracker -- how the tracker characterizes them. some were comparative on the

respective records on taxes. and some are on elements of governor romney's record. but we've been -- we've been very -- we spent tens and tens of millions -- $50 million or more on positive ads. in contrast, you look at the other side, and 90% of their media dollars from the very beginning have been spent on negative ads. the whole premise of the romney campaign is a negative premise -- >> three quarters of the ads from the beginning have been negative or characterized as negative. three quarters of your ads. >> of their campaign. >> no, of your campaign. >> well, that's -- we can have that discussion. i can -- we can go over that. but i also would invite you to go out and you guys ran some of the president's speech today. the president's campaigning all over this country. talking about how we rebuild the middle class in this country. how we rebuild the economy. about education and revitalizing american manufacturing. all the things we need to do to

build -- to build our economy in a way that gives people a chance. >> the tone of this debate has come under criticism. jen sachi, an obama campaign spokeswoman says the president wants a high brow debate over "what the american people actually care about." the same day your campaign released a brutal spent featuring mitt romney singing "america the beautiful" off key. does that quall identify as highbrow or somethg the american people really care about? >> i think what they do care about, anderson, are we going to have a tax code that encourages outsourcing? that's what governor romney supports. he has a history in this area. or are we going to support insourcing and end those tax breaks and reward folks for creating jobs here in america? that's what the president supports. are we going to spend $100 billion a year in off shore tax shelters of the sort that governor romney has availed himself of? or use that for better purposes? these are the discussions we'll

have moving forward. the perspective you bring to it is important. >> is it just coincidence these bain attacks really came about after some very bad job numbers came out about two weeks ago? >> anderson, you may have talked about it on your show, we've raised issues about bain, and let me tell you, long before these last couple of weeks, and let me tell you why. the only credential romney is offering for the presidency is his business experience. never talks about the fact he was governor of massachusetts. and with some good reason, because that record wasn't exactly a glittering record of job creation. he talks about the fact he's a business man. and he has great insights into the economy as a result. of course we'll look at what that business experience is. we began that -- taking a look at that as soon as he became the nominee. if this isn't something new, it's part of the discussion. he entered it into the discussion. and now we're engaging in that discussion. he say wait, don't talk about my business experience. so he can talk about his business experience but he doesn't want us to talk about his business experience. >> your campaign has even said

romney may be guilty of a felony. he's demanded an apology for that. i know you made it clear there's no apology coming. at this point, though, is there enough evidence out there to really make that claim? >> and no one really made that claim, anderson. what stephanie cutter said was that if in fact you filed paper as he did in 1999 through 2002, saying you're the chairman, chief executive, president and sole shareholder of a company, but now you're arguing that you had nothing to do with the activities of that company, then it raises questions about that filing, or it raises questions about what you're saying now. as i said yesterday, to candy crowley, i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. i think he's misleading people now. but either way, it's not a recommendation to make a guy president of the united states. >> i want to ask you something that -- about something that a bush adviser, mark mckinnon, who worked on his re-election

campaign eight years ago, had to say about this race. he said, "team obama is doing just what we did in 2004 which is to define the opposition early." "in this cycle, that may be enough, but it's a very risky approach." he's not the only one making a comparison. are there parallels in your opinion between what the bush campaign did to john kerry and what your team is doing to mitt romney right now? basically trying to define him based on what is it considered by his campaign as a strength? >> no. because what was done back then was toake a guy who was a certified war hero ando suggest that somehow he wasn't. and that was grossly unfair. the fact of the matter is that governor romney has a background and an approach and a set of policies that are far different than the ones the president supports. we are very much for policies that are going to boost the middle class. we believe in building this economy from the middle class out. he believes in a top-down

approach. and it flows from his experience and the lens through which he sees this economy. and so that's very much fair game. i wouldn't say it's the same at all. let me just add one thing, anderson, and that is, one of the reasons why mark notes -- as mark notes that people don't really know governor romney. even though he's run for president twice. is because he's never told them who he is. he's never told them what motivates him. he's never put his own experience into any kind of framework that people could appreciate. and the real question is to address that campaign. why do they feel that simply running negative ads against the president from the beginning was sufficient? >> david axelrod, appreciate your time, thank you. >> okay, good to be with you. >> here's one more number from c-mag to factor in. the obama campaign has so far outspent the romney campaign on television ads three to one overall. more context for their insistent they spent more money on

positive ads than romney has. let's talk politics again. former white house press secretary for george w. bush ari fleisher. cnn contributor paul begala. joins me as well. paul, you advise the super pac which has run a lot of these negative ads many thousands of times. negative campaigning, you're more than okay with it? >> totally, absolutely. the ads to the pac i advise which is priorities usa action. they have featured the most powerful ads. and the ones we have run the most of. the real words of real people that mitt romney laid off. he came and took over these companies. he loaded them up with debt. he in some cases he bankrupted them. paid himself millions. and canceled the health benefits. we sent cameras to places like marion, indiana, kansas city and we filmed these people and their heartbreaking stories. the "los angeles times," "l.a. times," terrific journalist, called our ad the most effective democratic ad this year. >> so did the president say -- can the president say there's been a slew of positive ads?

>> yeah, i don't know how many is in a slew. i thought you nailed ax pretty well on this. my job i think in this pro-obama super pac is simply to define romney. if we run a single positive ad, i'll be disappointed. i'm hoping to go over 100%, anderson. we might run more negative ad after the election just to get over 100%. >> you say you'll be disappointed? >> i'll try to save enough money to run one more after the election so it will be 101%. here's why. people already know a lot about the president. they don't know much about mitt romney. they know that president obama killed osama bin ladin, they don't know that mitt romney killed thousands of jobs all across america. i want to tell that piece of the story, and i think you guys ought to keep us honest. i think the press ought to fact check our ads about but when we take real people, put them on camera and tell their stories about what happened to their lives, it's pretty powerful stuff. >> these attacks on bain, focused in swing states, do you think they're working?

>> no, because if they were working, mitt romney wouldn't have cut the gap against barack obama. primaries, mitt romney was down by 5, 6, 7 points in most of the averages. now he's running neck and neck. he's not really running a very good campaign. he has spent almost $100 million on ads. amount roughly -- he spent a lot of money on ads. as you just demonstrated. almost entirely negative ads against mitt romney. mitt romney is running neck and neck. he's cut the gap. the reason is, in the cycle like this, voters are so focused on who can fix the economy, who can create jobs, who can reduce the deficit and the debt. they know the president can't. he's had four years to do it and he hasn't been able to. even with an overwhelmingly democratic congress for his first two years. this is one of the change elections. the change this cycle is mitt romney. i also want to say the obama campaign end today would be the felony charge. this is barack obama's own

birther movement against mitt romney. >> what do you mean by that? >> i defended obama against the whole birther allegations that he was illegitimate, that he committed a crime by not being born here and running for president. and they're doing the same thing that they said was despicable against mitt romney. stephanie cutter today repeated that charge in an interview with wolf blitzer. that's the shame of this race. the 2012 obama would not recognize the 2008 obama. >> paul, is this the birther movement by obama? >> no, come on. there's some people that -- >> a felony? a felony? >> just a second, ari. some people maybe think they got over their ski tips a little too far on this one. if you look at what they said, is mr. romney and bain capital filed securities and exchange commission documents that swore under oath that he was the president, ceo, chairman and sole owner of the company. then in 2011 romney signed a personal financial disclosure form also under pain of perjury that said he had nothing to do with bain capital.

during the same time the other sworn document said he was ceo and president and chairman. so one of those two documents seems to me inarguably to be wrong. and i think that's probably where the argument should be. i don't think mitt romney's a felon. i don't think that at all. but actually i think both those documents may well be in error. in other words, i don't think he s really running bain capital every single day while he was running the olympics. i also don't think he was completely wholly totally divorced from it. he swore both. that's the problem he's got. >> ari, his attorney said he returned multiple times to massachusetts to attend board meetings and the like. >> that doesn't mean he's running it or making the investment decisions. you know, when i went to the white house and when paul went to the white house, we both have signed commissions that gave us our white house jobs. they're signed not by the president but by the secretary of state. you don't work for the secretary of the state. the secretary of the state wasn't our boss. but he signed our commission. >> so did the president, ari, that's -- by the way, the president signs it too --

>> -- how to comply with laws actually don't have a whole lot of relevance to what you might have to do in the private sector or even the public sector. mitt romney had to sign as the ceo and the owner of the company because he owned the shares. the way it works is he didn't make the decisions because he indeed had left. even if he owned the shares. that's the difference. what it really comes down to, you remember before there was an official with the environmental protection agency who got fired because he spoke out and he said their view is you take three people and you crucify the first three people in the business community you come across. and nobody else -- you charge them with criminal charges. in effect crucify them, was his words. and nobody else will even think about even messing with you. that's the kind of campaign the obama campaign wants to run against mitt romney. these are the tactics they're employing. 2008 post partisan. we need to rise above. barack obama, he's given up looking for work like everybody else in this economy. this is such a different candidate in 2012. he's just clinging to his job. i don't think it's going to work. >> ari -- sorry, paul, do you

think it's a different candidate? >> yes, it's a different election, absolutely. but, you know, it amuses me, i have to say, i'm an older man, i'm 51. when i was a kid, conservatives were tough. it was john wayne. and ronald reagan. everyone said liberals were wimps, it was alan alda and mike dukakis. i'm heartened if we've gone from toothless in ari's eyes to ruthless. i'm rather be tough. these are tough times. this is romney's record. his sole calling card for the presidency i was a businessman, i was a ceo. so we are taking a look at that record. and it is very good in some ways. but appalling in other ways. and romney can't answer that. he can't defend the things he did. that's his problem. >> we got to leave it there. paul begala, ari fleisher, guys, thank you very much. let us know what you think, we're on facebook. follow me right now on twitter. @andersoncooper. we're keeping them honest on capitol hill, five members of congress are showing the pictures right there -- have launched a campaign to root out muslim extremists in the u.s.

government. they're saying there's this massive infiltration. they're naming names. including one of hillary clinton's top aides. the question is what evidence, if any, do they actually have? and if they're really concerned about this alleged security threat, why are they making it so public? that's next. on december 21st polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space. which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd, and you still need to retire. td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans?

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critics say it's nothing more than a politically motivated mccarthyism. bachman and four of her republican colleagues are demanding an investigation into the potential infiltration by muslim brotherhood operatives intent on destroying western civilization into the highest levels of the united states government. bachmann along with representatives trent franks, louie gomer. have sent letters to the inspectors general of the state department, justice department, defense department, homeland security department and the office of the director of national intelligence. they also made the letters very public. we're going to get to some of the big claims in those letters in just a moment. listen to what bachmann said in a radio interview. >> it appears there has been been deep penetration in the halls of our united states government by the muslim brother hood. the muslim brotherhood has been found to be an unindicted co-conspirator on terrorism cases. and yet it appears thathere

are individuals who are associated with the muslim brotherhood who have positions and very sensitive positions, in our department of justice, our department of homeland security, potentially even in the national intelligence agency. and i am calling upon the justice department and these various departments to investigate through the inspector general to see who these people are and what access they have to our information. >> deep penetration. those were her worlds. now, to the letters themselves. one being in reaching out to the american muslim community the justice department has been meeting with groups that could be, could be, fronts for the muslim brotherhood. these groups also appear to have been afforded access to senior policymakers in the justice department. in ways that align with muslim brotherhood agendas. and that could prove detrimental to our national and homeland security. in other letters, bachmann and others accused three department of homeland security advisers of having extensive ties to the muslim brotherhood.

and says other dhs advisers, quote, appear to share their sympathy for islamist causes. in yet another letter, bachmann and her colleagues claimed that the state department has taken actions that have been, quote, enormously favorable to the muslim brotherhood and its interest. and they single out huma abedin, an aide to secretary clinton, a top aide and wife of former congressman anthony weiner. the department's deputy chief of staff, huma abedin. has three family members, her late father, mother and brother connected to muslim brotherhood operatives and/or organizations. her position affords her routine access to the second and policy making. the suggestion is abedin's loyalty should be called into question. now, at this point, you may be asking, where this group of representatives is actually getting its information. keeping them honest, time and time again, the letters cite the work of a group called the center for security policy.

its website is muslimbrotherhoodinamerica.com. a man named frank gaffney. who says the muslim brotherhood is infiltrating every aspect of american life in order to impose sharia law. his critics call him a conspiracy theorist. the southern poverty law center calls gaffney the anti-muslim movements most paranoid propagandist. says he wants to see credible evidence for the allegations made in the letters. in response, bachmann defends letters and repeats her view that a multidepartment investigation into potential muslim brotherhood infiltration into the u.s. government is not only necessary but of course beyond timely. we invited bachmann and the other four congressmen who signed the letters to come on the program tonight. our invitation stands it joining me now is james zogbe, author of

"our voices." analex seats seitz walt, a staff writer. i read it and i got to say the things she cites as evidence to support her claim seem to tenuous or tangential that it really doesn't make -- to me, there's not really much evidence there at all. i know you've been digging into this. do you see validity about the claims she's making about deep penetration? >> no, absolutely not. this letter was supposed to spell out the evidence that she had. and it leaves us with more questions than the original claims make. for example, against huma abedin, the deputy chief of staff to hillary clinton. in order to connect her to the muslim brotherhood, have you to go through her dead father to an organization he started in saudi arabia, to a guy who supposedly supported him, to the organization that the guy was the head of. to europe in the 1970s when his organization was supposedly connected to the muslim brotherhood. these claims are just completely outrageous and there's nothing

to back them up. on the abedin case, she's basically having you -- in order to believe her, you have to expect that she knows more than, say, the cia or the fbi, who approved her security clearance. so, i mean, you know, the leaps that you would have to get to here probably wouldn't even fit on glenn beck's black board. >> the thing i also don't understand is if you really believe that there is a massive security threat in the highest reaches of government, you don't make that public. there are ways for people in congress tlaunch investigations or ask security agencies to launch investigations without going on some radio show. i mean, is this about politics or is this really you think a concern about security? >> yeah, i mean, the fact that we're even talking about it right now should underscore how ridiculous this witch-hunt is. that's exactly what it is. she wrote these letters and she immediately put them on her website. you can go right now and see them.

they're completely public. she sent them to the local newspapers. then she went on this right wing radio show. you would think if you're trying to root out secret infiltrators. you would not tell the entire world you're after them. anybody who knows anything would see that. this is clearly just a basic media ploy. this is exactly what she does. her presidential campaign has failed. it's the doldrums of the summer. she's trying to grab some headlines. classic michele bachmann. unlike a lot of other claims. unlike saying that the census data will be used to create interment camps, this has real consequences. i mean, she's going after real people here whose lives and careers could be potentially ruined or damaged because she's trying to get -- stay relevant for her political career. >> jim, it's also painting with a very broad brush hundreds of millions of people. billions of people around the world as potential threats to the united states. i mean, it's -- it's going against the very, you know, security interests of the united states.

we're fighting wars in support of some muslim governments against extremism. >> more than that, anderson, it's a threat to the millions of american muslims. look, i've been through this myself in my own life and my family's been through it. when we've been attacked unfairly. by some of the very same cast of characters. it hurts. and so i'm thinking right now of those young muslims working in the state department or working at the justice department. or, you know, getting out of college and wanting a career serving their country. and being told by these members of congress that you're a threat and we'll keep our eyes on you. the damage this does is not only to america abroad but it does profound damage to the notion of america as an inclusive and absorptive society that becomes one with many people from all over the world. sharing an identity and sharing a set of goals. that's what this president has tried to do. that's what michele bachmann and company