camels, i love my life. a number of charities allow you to donate a camel to a village in need. thanks for watching. here's piers morgan tonight. i felt sorry for this girl. >> is michael phelps the greatest of all time? >> plus, the winner circles. greg louganis and carl lewis. >> you can't top the first olympics. >> this is a gold medal edition of "piers morgan tonight." good evening from london. the 2012 olympics have been rocked by a huge scandal tonight.

eight players from three countries expelled for trying to lose their patches. some are accusing a chinese swimmer of doping. they charge they're not only wrong but racist. i know you alord coh. >> thank you. >> you must be the most excited, relieved man in the world right now. it's all gone so smoothly. >> i was excited before it started. i'm now into that sort of, it's got to work. very, very grateful to hundreds of thousands of brits who have helped us get this far. you know what this area was

like. this was desolate. we've now got a thriving community and sport kicked it all off. >> we got pride back in the country, which is great. some big stories developing today. one i'm very interested to get your take on. one is the badminton farce. i heard you before they got eliminated saying this is completely unacceptable. what i was pleased about was the chinese reaction, pretty swift to condemn it and say this isn't part of the olympic spirit. >> it was a good reaction, the right reaction. in fairness, of course, it's from a country that's already staged an olympic games. so maybe once you've staged the games, your whole history changes. the city changes, you look at the world in a different way. and like you, i was really pleased with the swift response that it was unacceptable. >> it was one of the worst things i have ever watched.

>> the sadness is i was in that venue yesterday afternoon, watching three nail biting competitive matches. it was only when i got out of the venue driving on to my next, the next job that somebody told me that -- yeah, it was depressing. >> if you had been there when it was happening and you saw team after team doing the same thing, do you have any power to actually do something? >> no, not as an organizer committee. that is entirely within the international federation. they hit it hard this morning. they got rid of the eight players. i think the international olympic committee were watching or would have watched very closely the international federation made exactly the right call on it. >> one of the olympic stories, ye shiwen, the swimmer. >> as a teenager, i took four seconds off my 100 meter time in one race.

what people tend to forget is i i had been doing that for the better part of seven or eight years. so we tend to -- you know, the sadness of it is, of course, in a way we're almost, you know, visiting the sins of the parents on the children. i think that in terms of the global approach to drugs in sport, we're in a much more grown-up world. people are prepared to talk about it. there's no ambiguity about what the rules are. i felt actually sorry for this girl. that was an extraordinary performance. it's not unusual for teenagers to perform at an extraordinarily high level. >> do you feel comfortable that somebody like duane chambers is going to be running for team g.b., given that he was a drugs offender? >> i'm reconstructed on the subject. my first contribution to this debate was back in 1981 at the ioc's congress in germany.

i was the first athlete to actually speak. and i had four minutes to talk. i spoke 2 1/2 minutes about the real problems of drugs in sport. i won't ever change my view on that. the difficulty, of course, is, you know, that these athletes are eligible to come back to the sport after a two-year ban. >> should they be? >> personally, no. do i think a two-year ban is not long enough? yeah. i don't. we made a mistake of moving from four to two years. we should have left it at four years. if you have a four-year ban, by implication, you miss the games. >> i kind of think the only way you'll really eradicate it is to be incredibly draconian, to say if you get caught, you're banned for life at the olympics. wouldn't that in one hit do more effective work than what's going on at the moment? >> you're right. but of course, the problem you then have are the legion of

lawyers that will fight it on all sorts of grounds. and that's why the international federations, the international olympic committee as well as the world anti-doping agency have settle on a ban that gives nominally those competitors a second chance so that you don't close the door if they're prepared to come back and be clean and maybe go out into the sporting community and talk to kids about the dangers of sport. the reality of it is that you're then tied up into legalese. i don't think a lifetime ban would stick. >> let's turn to michael phelps, he smashed the record last night in dramatic style as the biggest medal winner in the history of the olympic games, sparking the debate, is he the greatest olympian ever? >> the thing about the olympic games, is david beckham going to be on the team? who's going to light the flame? the usual things that have been the stuff of the tap room most

nights of the week. we' now got the global pub game which is, is he the greatest? >> who do you think is? >> you have to say winning 19 medals or whatever he managed last night makes him certainly the most successful or prolific medal winner. is he the greatest? i'm not sure he is. >> carl lewis won nine golds but in a variety of different disciplines. many say that is more difficult in the athletics track and field than swimming. would you go along with that? >> yeah, i'm from track and field. i would stay statistically it's tougher to win a medal in track and field than any other sport because there's 240 sports competing at it. it's one of the few truly global sports. that's not to decry swimming. >> if i were to win you day and say right, lord coe, you could have one name of one olympian that you would personally want to see again? >> well, modesty probably prohibits me.

i don't know. for all sorts of reasons and given what he did and where he did it and the extraordinary athletic talent, i would probably say jesse owens. >> would you? that's a good call. >> 1936. >> i will make my first comments to carl lewis. lord coe says jesse owens is better for you. in the opening ceremony, i would surprised to see your great rival wasn't invited. >> he was. >> he wrote a piece saying he hasn't. >> we were trying to get him to run in the torch relay. the problem is he didn't actually arrive in london until literally -- >> so he was invite popped. >> all of our olympic medallists are invited. >> it wasn't payback for snuffing you out that time? >> all of our medallists, 180 of them that gathered on the

infield to be celebrated just before the caldron was lit. i know steve was invite popped. >> i'm glad we put that one to bed. it's been a fantastic success. on behalf of everyone in britain we are very proud of what you've achieved in olympics. thank you you've put us back on the map in a great way. >> i'm proud of what my fellow countrymen have achieved besides us. >> you've shown leadership. thank you very much. the whole world is talking about the 16-year-old chinese swimmer. but what's the reaction in her own country. jaime, what is the reaction on the ground in china to what is going on here? is there a feeling if she was an american or british swimmer, we wouldn't even be debating it? >> surely. well, the chinese are cheering and celebrating ye shiwen's success. in the "beijing times" they have her on the cover, on the front page and the headline reads ye shiwen is clean.

and they said she had passed the strict drug test of the ioc in london. so yes, the chinese feel they're being unfairly singled out. they feel if it had been a michael phelps or another swimming sensation, we wouldn't be talking about it. it would have been fabulous news and yet in this case, it's cheating. >> i think i was encouraged, and i said this to our guest tonight by the reaction of the chinese over here in london to the other scandal involving the badminton teams, one of whom was the china team, where they deliberately lost to avoid meeting some of their rivals in later stages. the chinese were very quick to come down on this thing. it wasn't in the olympic spirit and endorsing the decision to suspend and throw them out of the games. how has that gone down in china? is it being seen as a sign that

china really has changed? they are now prepared to play by the rules of the olympic games? >> yes, it is one of the top trending topics, especially in the micro blogging sites here. and indeed, most of the people who were posting were supportive of china's quick response. they think that that is in the spirit of the olympics of fair play. but there are some who also are conflicted and who think that the chinese athletes aren't to blame, the chinese coaches aren't to blame, nor the other athletes. they say it's the group system that forces these people to play this tactic. it's a question of whether it's good tactics or cheating. but overall, i think the chinese here are saying that the first gold is not the most important, it's not the ultimate thing, that participation is more important.

and that fair play in this case is just as important. >> they're quite right. it's not tactics. it's just cheat. when you play to lose to face an easier opponent, that's cheating. coming up, why greg luganis stayed away from the game for 16 years. ♪ ♪ i want to go ♪ i want to win [ breathes deeply ] ♪ this is where the dream begins ♪ ♪ i want to grow ♪ i want to try ♪ i can almost touch the sky [ male announcer ] even the planet has an olympic dream. dow is proud to support that dream by helping provide greener, more sustainable solutions from the olympic village to the stadium.

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>> that's a way to make a splash. greg louganis, no athlete quite has the story like the four-time gold medal winner. you haven't been to the games in 16 years. why is that? >> i know. well, i wasn't invited. i was kind of thinking -- my name is greek. and i was raised greek. i thought athens would be it, but i forgot that was the year i lost my mom. so i was a little preoccupied i think. >> let's turn to swimming. it's been an extraordinarily

exhilarating week in the pool. michael phelps broke the all-time medal record. ryan lochte, and the frenchman. how exciting has it been for you? >> i love to see incredible performances. that's what you get at the olympic games. everyone knows who the top athletes are. you know who your competition is. it's whoever puts it together on that day. >> when you go back to your extraordinary story. this great secret that you kept, the drama of when you smashed your head. i remember it vividly. what do you make of where you've got to now. have you gotten through all the traumas and dramas . >> definitely. back in 1988 when i was diagnosed with hiv, we thought of hiv as a death sentence. my doctor, who was also my

cousin, he was treating me and he said, the best thing you can do is just continue training. it was much more positive to focus on the diving. so that's what i did. it was really a blessing. but honestly, i didn't think i would see 30. >> magic johnson and now you, both have had hiv for 20 years. the fact that you look so fit, healthy and well and happy is all you need. it's such a radical change now in public opinion precisely because of people like you and magic. >> now young kids are seeing us, well, they're alive and thriving. but i wouldn't wish my drug regiment on anyone. >> you have to take a huge amount of pills a day? >> it's not as many. they combined some medications. i take meds in the morning and

evening and go about the business of living. when you're magic johnson, you have your own nutritionist and chef. you have people looking after you. i don't have that. i'm working on it. it's challenging. it's challenging. making sure you take care of yourself. one thing i have noticed is with long-term survivors, they do stay active. they go to the gym, live active lifestyles. i think that's the one thing that kind of helps us metabolize the medications and tolerate the medications. >> what do you make of the whole chic-fil-a fury. mike hukabee has ordered christians to go eat at chic-fil-a to. and every gay person in the world is going to converge on chic-fil-a on friday. is it a bit silly?

were you angered when the boss said what he said? >> well, you know, i'm not real political and i know what's right for me. equal rights for everybody. the chic-fil-a. who eats that stuff? really. i mean, who eats that stuff. i kind of like my arteries. >> you shouldn't be going there for health grounds. never mind views about same sex marriage, right? >> exactly. >> let's turn to the chinese wonder swimmer. she's been one of the big stories of the games. and the whole issue of china, drugs, cheating. the badminton thing. where are you on all of this? >> you know, i am so thankful that i was in a sport that we didn't have that really as -- an issue. you don't want a 200, 300-pound diver. fortunately i didn't have those issues. it's sad that that's an issue, you know?

it becomes about the science. rather than the performance and the individual. >> we know the worst dive you ever did. what was the greatest dive of your life. >> the greatest dive was the dive after that dive. i wrote about it, i wrote a blog. at that moment in the time, i became the toughest sissy in the world. i thanked all the people who bullied me and were really hard at me. beat me up at the bus stop, took my lunch money because if it weren't for those experience, i wouldn't have been as tough as i was to be able to get through that. >> when you went back and dived again and you came back up and your head bounced up through the water, what was going through your mind? the first thing you thought? >> well, going through something

like that, okay, i hit my head on the board. your confidence is totally shattered, you know? i'm supposed to be a pretty good diver. you're not supposed to do stuff like that. so when my confidence was shattered and i turned to my coach and we decided to continue, he knew my confidence was gone. and he said if you don't believe in yourself, believe in me because i believe in you. and we'll get through this together. there's always somewhere there, whether it be a coach. my mom was always there. >> she was my main stay, my rock. no matter what happens, my mother is still going to love me. she would be saying oh, that was a pretty splash. you know? >> greg, it's a great pleasure to see you. >> good to see you. coming up, i talk to the one and only carl lewis.

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>> carl lewis is considered one of the greatest olympic athletes of all time. winner of 10 medals, nine of them gold. carl joins me now. welcome. >> thank you. >> this is a great moment for me. when you were doing your stuff, i watched every second of it. it was my era. and you're one of the most extraordinarily athletic characters i've ever seen. >> thank you. >> that's a good way to start an interview, it puts you in a good move. >> we can end it right now. >> it wasn't just me. after your amazing gold medal run, the ioc called you the sportsman of the century as well in 1999. and that prompted this debate, post michael phelps, who's the greatest olympian. i asd lord coe and he said if

you really pushed him, he would go for jesse owens. he said you might be surprised, carl might say the same thing. who is your first choice? >> we're so often and quick to say here's the greatest one of all time instead of allowing them to define their generation. michael is defining this generation in a way that no one has ever done before. i wouldn't say anything. the person that affected me the most was jesse owens. i think we should focus more on who defines the generation and who casts the memory of their time. >> we've got your kind of time to come. usain bolt is the talking point. you and him, who would win? >> look, i ran against people in my time.

and one thing they eave been doing all week is saying what do you think about the race, what do you think you can do? i refuse to inject myself into their race. it's their time, i'm retired. and i always end it with look, i ran against people and beat the people in my generation. jesse did it, everyone did it. do you think hayes or owens wouldn't be the top right now? let's let them compete in their era. >> did you come up against someone you possibly thought you couldn't beat? >> i looked at it in a different way. i was always competing against perfection. when you're around from 1980 to 1986, i had layers of people. there are people who came in when ben came in and i knew he was on drugs and i said this is going to be tough. or leroy, he was younger than i was and i was 30 and i said this is going to be tough, too. i want to be at a point when i thought hey, it's over, i can't beat people anymore, it's time to move on. that's where i put myself.

>> when you talk about ben johnson now, i remember that race. i remember saying there's no way ben johnson could beat carl lewis by that margin. and it turns out it was drug. a chinese swimmer can't do a great performance without everyone assuming she must be on drugs. you faced allegations in the past, never proven. what is your view about the whole drug issue? are we better off today when ben johnson got caught? >> what's sad is it's never going to end. bernie madoff is in jail because he stole money. that's the nature of our society what i'm excited is the passport program. they're keeping your tests for future. you have to be accountable for year. that's the most innovative problem they've had in order to try to stop the drug problem.

>> when you sea duane chambers, the sprinter, two-year ban, back he comes at the olympics. to me, jars with me. nothing against him personally. i don't want to see the cheats back so soon. if it was up to me and lord coe said the same thing, pretty well ban for life. make the pishment so severe that it defers them. >> i agree with you. i think it should be at least four years because you missed an olympic cycle. and if it was up to me, i would make it indefinite. no one can get on drugs and have a program by themselves. it's always a conspiracy. but the problem is we get to an athlete and don't get to the root of the problem. >> what was the best for you? >> you can't top los angeles, the first gold medal. and i had this vision -- >> why? >> well, because it was the first one, you know, and i crossed a line and i remember

taking a lap and i had the american flag. i was in my home country and i looked up in the stands and my parents were standing there. there's nothing that will top that. i think the one that gave me the most fulfillment is i'm happy to end my career at this stage. >> do you think michael phelps had in his mind, if i get three medals i'll be the all-time record winner and i'll be part of the olympics again. is there anything quite like the olympics? >> the olympics are unique. i think he came in here saying i'm winning all of it. you can't say neighbor this. sports isn't like a light switch. you have to have it all the time. you can't turn it on in the middle. that's why you saw the frustration on him getting that silver. when he got the silver before the gold, he said you've got to be kidding me. i did everything i was supposed to do. i think he'll have a chance --

>> barack obama called him to congratulate him personally. did you ever have that in your time? >> no, he didn't call me. it's president reagan when i won in l.a., and the times were different. it's so great we've evolved to this time when this was acceptable. acceptable. in our day, we did not have the social media and everything where we could actually communication in a way we do now. i think it's wonderful we can do that.. >> when you were competing at your very best, did you ever imagine that you would have an african-american president? >> no, i didn't. my parents were good friends with dr. martin luther king. we were involved in that society. i didn't think so. >> do you think america is less or more racist since barack obama? do you think it opened a can of warms of more racism do you think?

do you think it's easier or harder to be a black man or woman? >> i think a lot of people said wait, wait, let's go back to the old times. so they're showing it again in a way we did not see five years ago. it's amazing the discussion we have about our president, the demeaning character we have about someone who's the perfect american dream. grew up, went to college, finished, has a beautiful wife, wonderful children and is a leader. that's a perfect american dream. >> finally, all of these athletes competing here for their country, you've been in their shoes. what does it mean to a, compete for your country, for america. and b, to win. >> to win is something that's unimaginable. and people ask me, they say when you're athlete of the century, what's it like? how do you know about that? how do you feel it? the title of the best olympian

of all time. when we were in the relay, you know, i'll run it all the time and we pass the baton and we cheer. but when we're in the olympics, we're carrying america's baton. it's a whole other level. >> a pressure you can't imagine, right? you sympathize with them? >> they love it and i love it, too. >> coming up, michael johnson.

as a sprinter, four-time medal winner michael johnson was billed as the fastest man on earth. welcome. my first and obvious question to you, where are the golden nikes? i loved those boots. >> everybody loved them. the problem is they became more famous than me. that was the only mistake.

there was a different pair for every race. i had eight races during '96, eight races during 2000. i kept the ones i wore in the finals and there was a different pair for each race. my coach has the left one and i have the right one from each of those races. the other ones we auctioned off for charity. >> i used to try to run like you. you were one of my heros. i used to get the piston action, but not the speed. >> that's the hardest part, actually. the piston action. it came naturally for me. >> it was a natural thing? >> all the other kids said i ran funny. i said well, you run slow. what happened was i did get a lot of criticism for the style early on. my coach and i had a lot of studies done we found that actually it was much more efficient. then we started to incorporate things into the training program

to enhance that style. >> we've got the big sprinting to come. usain bolt, the charismatic jamaican. are you a fan of his style? >> i'm a fan of his speed, that's for sure. his style is not that great actually. let's not as good as some of the other guys. they're very efficient if and good sprinters technically. he is just amazing. because if he were, just imagine if he can ran. >> do you think he's like thoroughbred racehorse, saving himself for the big one? >> he's had some injuries. people say he's going to lose it, it's going to be his countryman. he ran 9.58 to win the world championships. that's his world record.

he doesn't have to be at 100%. he's had a month since his last race. i think he'll be fine. >> this young 16-year-old swimmer, ye shiwen, you believe that she should be innocent until proven guilty and celebrate her talent. >> anyone should. we have to understand that's where we are with sport now. that's the damage done to sport when people achieve. it makes everyone not believe what they see. that's unfortunate but that's where we are and we have to understand that. it's unfortunate for her that she has turned in these incredible performances. instead of being asked how great she feels about it, she's asked whether or not she's cheated to get there. and that's unfortunate. china has invested a massive amount of money into sports.

my sports performance company, they're one of my biggest clients. they're searching around the world for people to help them develop their talent. they have 1.2 billion people there. talent is there. they're doing a great job in developing their sports and their athletes. but as far as she's concerned, she's probably one of them. the only thing we can do is, you know, trust in the system. the system tests the athletes. they're turning it around here. in 24 hours, she hasn't been found to be positive. so it's a negative test. and, you know, it's incredible performance. no doubt about it. but bolt has had incredible performances, bolt has. i have. what's too incredible. are you going to say she's too incredible. where are you going to draw that line. you can't. >> i was encouraged by china's reaction to the badminton furor. shameful behavior, and i blame the ach mainly, but then you

have to blame the athletes for doing it. china has been quick to say no, the coach is wrong. we agree with the decision. i thought that was terrific. that was a real sea change in attitude from the chinese. >> i agree. i think they did the right thing. the badminton federation is going to have to come in and change the rules. when you have sport, people are going to do whatever they can. you can't rely on the athletes to govern themselves. >> then they shouldn't b be in the olympic games. if you can't have a group system because too many people will cheat. it's disgusting. >> but it's just like society. you have to have rules in society. people are going to try to cheat. >> i say send them home, ban them for life. that will stop the others. >> maybe you should be the ioc chair. >> i would send them home, ban them for life. >> people were booing them in the crowds. you want to see the best athletes at their best. and that's by and large what you

do get at the olympics. >> oscar paetorius, you're not a fan of this. >> he's a friend of mine. >> right. you think it gives him an advantage? >> i think it does give him an advantage. some scientists say it gives them an advantage. some scientists say they don't know. let's take oscar out of it. he's a friend of mine. in order to be totally objective about the situation, which is all about at the end of the day, it's not about oscar. it's about fair competition. when you're talking about fair competition, you have to take personalities and people out of it and just look at the rules. it's difficult for anyone to understand this when you're talking about oscar who's such a hero and inspiration to so many people. i consider oscar a friend. since he's here and he's going to be running in the stadium for the next few days i'm going to

be cheering for him hoping he gets to the final. it's unfortunate he's not running as fast this year as he was last year. >> i think a guy who can run with the best of them with prosthetic legs. >> do you think if he gets an advantage, he should run? >> i think he's earned that advantage. >> the reason why you're saying that is because well, you feel like he's probably not going to get a medal. go ahead and let him run. >> do you think he might? >> no, he's not going to get a medal. >> wouldn't it be an amazing moment for the olympics? >> it will be. but when you get an athlete who's faster, you're going to say, we know we let oscar run, but we're not going to let you run because you're too fast. >> it's an ethical dilemma where are you looking for big american achievement for the olympic games? >> the sprint is where we always dominated. the jamaicans killed us the in the last olympics.

but on the women's side, i believe we're going to have some great performances. i think that allyson felix will run fantastic. i think she could win it finally after being silver medallists the last two times. i think it's going to be a real battle in the 100 meters with the 100 meter world champion. but ashton eaton, the world record holder, i expect him to win here. we can do well here. i think we'll finish at the top of the medal, but it's been tougher. >> great to have you. >> appreciate it. >> you still running? >> i wouldn't call it running. >> you're down to my level, eh? michael johnson. coming up, legendary olympic gymnast and the sport she revolutionized. ♪

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welcome back to london. gold medal gymnast olga korbut is considered the mother of gymnastics. welcome. >> thank you very much. >> you were like the darling of those olympics. i was only seven, but i have a vivid memory of you falling, everyone heart broken and you came again and you won all the gold's. everyone loved olga korbut. how do you feel about that? >> i feel good. >> when you walk around here, do you get a good reaction? when people realize it's you? >> yeah. i don't know why they shaking when they see me. i been in stadium yesterday when women team, and i wanted to jump from my chair and go to the, and do some, some routine. >> did you really? >> yeah. >> it all brought it back to you?

>> i felt like i was 17 again. this atmosphere, this is public clapping, this is brought me all my memories back. >> when you see the american gymnasts, the young girls, they are amazing. they're starry eyes, into the magic, looking forward to these amazing and exciting games. what's the reality? as you did, you become hugely famous almost overnight, what was your life like after that? was it all easy? >> no. it's not easy. first of all when you finish, you don't know where you going. you don't prepare. but i quit gymnastic and did horse riding. >> really? you just gave it all up and went and road horss. >> yeah, two years. >> and you moved to america because of the chernobyl disaster. >> yeah. i travel a lot, back and forth back and forth and i had a small

son and he needs mother. and i get him here. i put to there russian family and i travel. i didn't see him and i found a job and this is how it is. i didn't mean to move, but i fell in love with people and i love. >> finally olga, in all the great moments you had, what was the greatest for you personally >> great moment? >> if i could relive it for you now, which one would you choose? >> i don't know. >> the first gold? is that always the best? >> oh, no. i never by the way competed for the gold or silver. i competed for public. maybe why they fell in love with me. i always smile from heart. i give them piece of mine.

>> i remember that smile. it hasn't changed. >> thank you. >> it's been lovely to meet you. >> thank you very much. >> enjoy the rest of the games. >> we'll be right back from london. i'm only in my 60's... i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ]f you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, it helps pick up some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you thousands in out-of-pocket costs.

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finally tonight, only the olympics meet the guy who is literally stealing the show here in london. if you're british, bradley wiggins looks like the ultimate hipster. all he's a psych list of team great britain. he is the greatest single medal winner in british olympic history. he also just won the tour de france. but surely wiggo as we call him has saved his greatest achievement for last. he single handedly have brought back the side burn.