be successful. you're on your way to a better you. >> all right. i think i'm going to gow out side now. i'm debra feyerick. thank you for joining us today. "cnn newsroom" continues right now in new york with ashleigh banfield. >> thank you very much. very nice to see you. hello. it is officially 11:00 on the ea coast. it's 8:00 on the west coast. let's get right to it. with the romney/ryan ticket, 48 hours old, both campaigns along with their surrogates and supporters are still fixed on one big question, who the heck is this guy? you've heard the republicans call him a fearless defender of small government and fiscal discipline and the democrats call him a reckless ideologue who punish the poor to help the rich. but the reality is most of us americans don't really even know him at all. just last week our cnn orc poll found 54% of us are unsure whether they like paul ryan or not. guess what, you're getting to get a heavy dose of who he is.

the seven-term congressman and chairman of the house budget committee still lives in his hometown of janesville, wisconsin. what a great shot. green bay packers fan, camper, bow hunter. you've seen pictures of him with a deer. and his wife has a law degree from george washington university. she decided to stay at home to raise their kids. they are young, 7, 9, and 10, and that is officially a mittful. but paul ryan, what about him and his background? he's young. joining me now is cnn political editor young paul steinhauser in washington. nice to see you, paul. i've had such a great weekend watching tv. i hate to see it but i was glued from friday night on when the rumblings were out that he was the pick. i have had a fascination with him. i have to admit. the blue eyes got me at the beginning. the fabulous hair, and then the plan had me hooked on him. now i'm finding out so much more about his background. this dude has been at the job a long time. >> he sure has.

you know, he's been portrayed since saturday when he was named the running mate as a creature of outside washington. ashleigh, in a lot of ways this man is a creature of washington. coming right here to the nation's capital to work for republican lawmakers in congress soon after graduating college. and spending about five years here before going back to wisconsin and then as you mentioned, at 28 years old, back in 1998, being elected to congress, coming right back here, serving seven terms. and jumping over a lot of people back a few years ago when he became the ranking republican on the budget committee. jumping over a lot of more senior republicans and, of course, since 2011, thanks to those 2010 victories and the midterm elections where the republicans stormed back and took control of the house. most americans who do know something about him know about his howe house budget plan and how it would affect medicare. you showed that poll number, ashleigh. more than half the people we polled last week didn't know enough about paul ryan to form an opinion or didn't know him at all. even among republicans, his own party that number was pretty close to 50%.

ashleigh, that all changes now. i think a lot of people come november 6th will know a lot about paul ryan. >> here's one of the things that, i mean, he had me at hello with the fact that he was a bartender once. i have to admit -- >> come on. >> six years i was a bartender and a cocktail waitress getting myself through college. >> we're going to learn about you. >> there's so much more that you don't want to know about. but the thing is, what i found fascinating was that as he was bar tending on capitol hill when he had his first itty-bitty jobs and started to really get some clout, one of the people i least expected him to get advice from was a big democrat, barney frank. >> yeah. this is fascinating because barney frank is vilified by so many republicans. long time congressman from massachusetts, progressive, a liberal, who is not running for re-election. but barney frank giving him advice to just stick to a few big ideas, few issues and not be the expert on everything. you know what? i think to a degree paul ryan take that advice and one of the reasons why he rose so high so

quickly on the budget committee and he is basically the spokesman for the republican party when it comes to fiscal matters, when it comes to tax matters. cutting government spending. and his plan, of course, last year creating so much of a controversy among so many americans, but it's a plan that republicans basically followed in lock step behind, ashleigh. >> so talk to me a little bit about this background where he's just a no nonsense kind of guy. turns out that early days on the hill he slept in his office and maybe not so early days on the hill, saving no anyone and sleeping in his cramped quarters and spending a lot of time on his ipod. i'm not sure if it' becaus ved leppelin so much ohe didn't wt tonswer questions om pe likeou and maybe that was a goody's traction to keep him away from talking to media. everybody is looking into the early years on the hill, intern and working for congressional lawmakers and then as congressm congressman. here are the numbers. first elected in 1998 at 28 years old. this is interesting.

ashleigh, last election, 2010, he won 68% of the v in his district. guess what though, the district seems to be not as conservative as him. president obama slightly carrieded district by a small edge in 2008. he is a fiscal hawk, we know that, but guess what, he did vote for t.a.r.p. which is the wall street bailout and the auto bailouts as well. auto jobs big in his district. yes, the chairman of the house budget committee since 2011 poop we' . we're all going to talk so much more about this man in the next two months. >> he's a big p-90xp fitness fan and he drove the wienermobile. i love him. >> you can't go wrong with the wienermobile. the workout, both father and grandfather died as heart disease and he's serious. lots more to find out. i'm sure the microscope is just fine-tuning at this point. paul steinhauser, thanks for coming on. fresh off a homecoming in

chico, our president, mr. obama, is starring his three-day bus tour. guess ere, you wa. ile paul ryan is is at the state fair in des moines today, the president instead will be somewhere tween council bluffs boone with more m. more stops on his schedule. brianna keilar is watching from the white house. i expect this is probably not the last stop that will be in iowa. three full days. >> three full days but, of course, iowa is very important to president obama. he won it in 2008. now it's up for grabs. and you should expect, ashleigh, to hear president obama talking again about paul ryan, who will continue with the theme that he's been talking about now for months. he will be portraying himself as fighting for the middle class and mitt romney and paul ryan fighting for the wealthy. we heard president obama talk about paul ryan yesterday at a fund-raiser in chicago. expect for him to perhaps be gracious on the personal level, welcoming paul ryan to the race,

but attacking him on policy. here's part of what he said. >> he's an articulate spokesman for governor romney's vision, but it's a vision that i fundamentally disagree with. my opponent and congressman ryan and their allies in congress, they all believe that if we just get rid of more regulations on big corporations and we give more tax breaks to the wealthiest americans, it will lead to jobs and prosperity for everybody else. >> reporter: now, ashleigh, david axelrod, a key campaign adviser to president obama, wasn't quite as ice. he called ryan a, quote, certifiable right winger and i think what we'll be expecting to see a lot of especially in the coming days is the president and the campaign really attacking mitt romney's pick because of

medicare, because under the ryan budget, he wants to change medicare into a voucher system and that's something that the campaign is going to try to use to chip away at some of romney's support from seniors. >> all right, brianna keilar, live at the white house. thanks. we'll be having more on the truthiness of it all as we continue on throughout the week. make sure you stay tuned for full coverage from the campaign trail right here every day. [ male announcer ] let's say you need to take care of legal matters.

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i tell mike what i can spend. i do my best to make that work. we're driving safely. and sue saved money on brakes. now that's personal pricing. the xxx olympiad is now officially over, and now it's heathrow's problem, dealing with the challenges of getting 10,000 athletes on flights and out of town. zain vergee luckily covering this story for us. they decided to tent the parking lot and set up, i would assume, a extraordinarily secure terminal to get out of these athletes and their 90,000 or some odd bags out of the country? >> reporter: exactly. they're gone. wahoo! no, not really. they brought us so much fun and joy. look at the "daily telegraph."

thanks, it's been a blast. now good-bye. 116,000 people at heathrow airport today. it's always busy. but you've got 10,000 or so athletes. they've actually tried to make it look like a very british park and they've tried to recreate the trees and the scene. they put a little telephone box as well as a double decker bus. people can also put their favorite little memory as you can see there on this tree and then just stick it there before they leave. that's pretty cute, right? when they're all gone, it's going to go back to being a parking lot, as it should be. >> yeah. and then all those venues, you get to use for your own devices, zain. it's a lot of fun. i remember when i was covering the sydney olympics in 2000 for nbc, the closing ceremony was a big highlight because we got to party afterwards. last night i had my chips and my hot cocoa in bed and i'm watching the closing ceremony and lo and behold nbc goes to some tv show and makes me wait. >> i know.

>> makes me wait to see one of my favorite bands of all time. what is the deal? >> reporter: well, what was your favorite band of all time, the spice girls? i think you would have seen that one, right? >> yeah. you know what? it was the who, a long time ago. >> yes, yes. >> i think the worst part of it is you had to wait a whole hour and then the who came on for almost six minutes. >> reporter: i know. how dare they? that's what nbc did of the closing ceremonies and they showed us "animal practice" instead, a preview of a new show about a vet who loves animals and sex. how dare they. but the who and muse and a couple of others added a little bit later. the outcry has been online as well. just check this out. #nbcfail on twitter says, i think nbc has managed to become even less popular than congress. is that possible, ashleigh? another tweet. hey, nbc, it's sunday. many of us would love to be watching olympic closing

ceremonies. and then this one from stacey, gee, i can't wait for the closing ceremonies to be over so i can watch "animal practice." my favorite part was, always look on the bright side of life. >> oh, yeah. harkining to the monte python days. that was awesome. i liked mr. bean, too, in the opening ceremony. >> yea >> that was the good closer. >> very cute. >> well, if you get some time now that you've worked, what, 100 days in a row, come visit. >> i will. i promise. >> good to see you, zain vergee. as always, my dear, thank you so much. i want to move on to other news out of europe right now. this is a case that really rocked the vatican. rocked that place for months, in fact. judge has ordered the pope's butler, former butler, is going to stand trial on charges of leaking hundreds of secret papers that were stolen from the pope's personal apartment. it happened, believe it or not.

palo gabriele is highlighted in this video. the vatican says he acted because he saw, quote, evil and corruption everywhere in the church. a second man, a vatican computer expert, is being charged with aiding gabriele in this effort. in egypt, a key military shake up that caught just about everybody by surprise. one bold move to regain total civilian power. president mohammed more si just went ahead and dismissed he's top generals. just dismissed them. among the top brass now out of the military, defense minister who took power after the ouster of the dictator last year. given a medal and then, quote, sent to retirement.

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so we've had the big announcement and we have mitt romney's choice for vp. the candidate paul ryan. so now what's going to happen? if you think back to 2008, the media went bananas. it was all sarah palin all the time. in fact, she didn't like it one bit. many times complaining that there was virtual media in the bushes behind her home.

so, she turned a lot of the blame on what happened to her during her race on us, the lame stream media. and she blamed us for a lot of the negative coverage and the negative image. take a look at hbo's "game change." >> this wasn't my fault. i wasn't properly prepped. i miss my baby. >> she's on the verge of a complete nervous breakdown. >> telling me what to say, what to wear, how to talk. >> all right. so that's the hollywood version of how it was for sarah palin. she disputes that it was anything like what you saw in that hbo program. but, we all remember that the media was thick with images of sarah palin, her family, her daughter, her dog, her ice machine, her moose hunting, and you name it. larry from the university of virginia center for politics. he joins me now to talk about whether mr. ryan is about to undergo the same scrutiny. larry, is he? >> well, he's going to get a vetting, ashleigh, but, look,

this is a classic case of a known quantity versus an unknown quantity. yes, paul ryan isn't known to the country but he's known to the constituency that matters in this case, washington political reporters and anchors. i don't think there's a one of them that hasn't interviewed ryan a half dozen times, whereas four years ago they couldn't pick sarah palin out of lineup. >> in fact, i think a lot of people had no idea that she was even the alaska governor when she was trouted out for the very first time and then just really captured everybody with her extreme popolism. she was breathtaking on stage. and then came this, larry, the charlie gibson interview in september of 2008 when she was asked about the bush doctrine. let me replay it. oh, what a huge intro to no tape. sorry about that. let me imitate for a moment. what are you thoughts about the

bush doctrine, governor palin. in what sense, charlie? well, what's your sense of it? and then it was kind of just a big debacle. it was very clear that she just didn't know what the bush doctrine was. and, larry, it seemed after that, her handlers kept her from us. they were very, very few interviews that governor palin did after that. me thinks that paul ryan is so media savvy he will be out there for all of us to question at leisure. >> i think they'll put him out there. i don't know how much they will. look, he's known as an expert at least in his field, the budget. clearly, he knows what he's talking about there. sarah palin's problem was she had not been properly prepped over the years about many national and international issues. that isn't going to be paul ryan's problem. i don't think anybody is going to ask paul ryan which newspaper he reads in the morning. >> larry that bugs me when people say properly prepped because i've got to be honest with you. there's only so much you can prep for if you're going to be the leader of the free world.

you need to be generally prepped and a question like that was something even a news anchor would know without really reading up much on it. i have that sound r sound bite now. let me replay it so people can watch whether she's not prepped or not savvy. >> do you agree with the bush doctrine? >> in what respect, charlie? >> well, what do you interpret it to be? >> his world view? >> the bush doctrine, dated september 2002, before the iraq war. >> i believe that what president bush has attempted to do is rid this world of islamic extremism. >> and there you go. and that was terribly uncomfortable and it led to a lot of comedy, particularly saturday night live. so sarah palin game became a bit of a character a chur. it doesn't seem as though there have been any interviews in which paul ryan would provide that kind of fodder to the comedy channels or the late

night comedians. >> well, we just got started, ashleigh. >> yeah, but he's been on tv a lot. larry, he's been on tv a lot. we know him well. >> sure. but -- and that's the key there. he's a creature of washington. he knows washington speak. he knows the washington terminology. you're not going to stump him about the bush doctrine. you're probably not going to stump him about foreign policy matters and he isn't an expert in foreign policy. he's specialized in domestic fiscal policy. governor palin came from alaska. she didn't have to focus on the bush doctrine. she was focussing on local alaska issues. that was her job. but, you know, all in all, there will be times when paul ryan stumbles because they all stumble. nobody is perfect. mother teresa was not available for the position. >> yeah, and i am now sitting in a glasshouse. so i hear you loud and clear. larry sabato, good to see you. >> thanks, ashleigh.

paul ryan's budget proposal which incorporates some pretty significant changes to medicare has at least one critic saying it would, quote, end medicare as we know it. that has echoeded several times around washiton as well. other team have speculated it could cause mitt romney some serious challenges in winning senior citizen rich florida. guess what, florida's really, real 4ri important this time around. the two men on the 2012 republican ticket addressed the questions about ryan's controversial proposals in a joint interview on sunday on cbs. >> paul ryan and i have talked about is saving medicare, is providing people greater choice on medicare, making sure it's there for current seniors. no changes for current seniors or those nearing retirement. but looking at young peopl down the road and saying we're going to give you a bigger choice. >> the senior medical

correspondent elizabeth cohen is joining us live now. elizabeth, this is complex stuff. really hafrd to break down in a couple of minutes on television. but generally speaking, can you tell me what the differences are between medicare now and how medicare might look if paul ryan had the changes that he would see fit. >> okay. to put it very simply, ashleigh, medicare is a federal health program for people over the age of 65. and what ryan's proposal says is in 2023, let's make it so you can either do medicare the way it is, the way it has been since, you know, for many, many years now, or you can go get a private insurance policy, after you turn 65, and get a voucher from the federal government and the federal government will -- will pay for it. so, in other words, you get the voucher and it will go towards that private program. if that private insurance policy is less expensive than that voucher you get to pocket the money. if that private insurance policy is more expensive than the voucher, well, you'll have to pay for it out of your own pocket. >> all right.

so obviously this is something that mitt romney has thought through because he's got a very big budget plan that some people love and some people hate on capitol hill, among republicans. how much of it is he going to employ, how much of it does he say he doesn't agree with, particularly when it comes to medicare? >> to use a non-medical word, ashleigh, it's a little bit mushy. and i'm going to tell you two things that romney senior adviser said over the weekend when he was asked that very question, or similar question. first he said, quote, it is the romney/ryan ticket, and as president ryan putting forth his own budget. but then he went on to say that if he were president, if romney were president and ryan plan was presented as the nation's budget, he would sign it. which makes you think that he does support it. so it's a little bit fuzzy how much he is, is he 100% behind it, is he not, would he sign it if it went in front of him

today? it's a little bit unclear. >> i love p mushy descriptor. he has said he's putting out his own plan. we'll have to be patient and see how much is incorporated from the romney plan. elizabeth cohen, nice to see you. thank you. more than 100,000 foster kids, 100,000 foster kids, are still waiting to be adopted in our country. think about that number. there is someone who is fighting very hard to try to find each one of those kids a family. and it's a cnn hero. after finally winning a ten-year battle to become a parent, david wayne is uniquely qualified to help other gay americans fulfill a dream of becoming a family. >> i was adopted, and i felt that i wanted to adopt a kid that needed a home. my son was in foster care for four years. from the minute michael and i met i knew right away that we were going to be a family. i thought everything was going

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already passing judgment, right now. >> i saw that kind of excitement four years ago wn john mccain appointed sarah palin as well. there were huge crowds. much of the same kind of reaction. i don't think it worked out very well. i think when the reality catches up with the moment, it's not going to be a plus for governor romney. >> cnn's wolf blitzer joining me now with thoughts on presidential tickets that clicked and others that maybe didn't click quite so much. all right. so we heard from david axelrod, wolf, and we know that paul ryan is no sarah palin, nor reverse. but do you think that david axelrod's assessment is accurate or fair? >> i think he's going to help mitt romney/paul ryan even though he does bring some baggage to the table, he's very, very smart. he's actually well liked not only by republicans and conservatives but well liked by a lot of his democratic colleagues, as well. he's got very different views

than they have, especially on some sensitive issues involving the budget, medicare, some of the entitlement programs. but i suspect he's not going to have the -- he's not going to make the kind of blunders that we saw for some other vice presidential candidates and i think he will bring excitement to the base, energize them. one of the big things on november 6th, ashleigh, as you well know, is going to be voter turnout. who is going to be have more enthusiastic supporters? there's always been reluth tans on the base to except mitt romney. i think this shores it up a lot and they're going to get out there, not only vote because they don't like president obama and joe biden, they're going to vote because they're more enthusiastic about this republican ticket. >>ly say sarah palin certainly got a lot of people out. they were really energized in '08. >> and sarah palin, to her credit, did really energize the republican base and the numbers were turning around, if you remember, on labor day, it was

neck and neck between then candidate obama and john mccain. she really helped john mccain a lot. what happened then was the economy really took a nose dive and morgan stanley and big financial firms were going down. and unemployment was going up. and that really turned things around for john mccain. i don't know if you can we simply blame sarah palin for the disaster that john mccain saw on election day. >> let's go through other choices in history because a lot of people would think, if you remember ike nixon, wow, how can anybody decide onyx exxon as a running mate. we remember him differently. at the time that eisenhower chose nixon as a running mate, he brought a lot to the table. >> much younger and to a certain degree he brought in a lot of that intellectual spark, if you will, because nixon, whether you liked him or not, was a very, very smart guy as well. everybody loved ike. he was a war hero, the world war ii hero. i don't think nixon really made much of a difference in '52 or in '56. but that's another story. >> and then just quickly,

bush/cheney. i remember the time when we all knew that cheney was on the search committee and lo and behold became the vice presidential pick himself. there was a cry at that time, too. >> i don't think cheney really brought a lot of votes necessarily for george w. bush. but he was a very, very powerful vice president. that line you opened up with about a warm bucket of spit or whatever, you know what, if you look at some of the recent vice presidents, including joe biden right now, he's playing a very, very influential role, al gore as bill clinton's vice president, very influential role, and whether you like dick cheney or not, he was extremely important during the eight years of the bush administrations. so i don't accept that warm bucket of spit stuff. >> in case anybody is wondering, wolf, and i was actually, i remember the quote but i couldn't remember who said it. the quote mentioned at the beginning of the segment, that was john nance garner, the guy known as cactus jack. fdr. >> right. and maybe he felt like that. but i think in recent years that

vt shul slot has been increasingly important. >> well, and mitt romney's seven points behind obama in the polls so it better be important for him. >> you know one thing i'm going to watch, these next few polls, to see if there's a paul ryan bounce if it's really going to help mitt romney at least in the short term. we'll see. >> and how long it lasts, which is critical, because we're a long way away from election day. thank you, mr. blitzer. good to see you. >> good to see you. 11:00 a.m. eastern. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] its lightweight construction makes it nimble... ♪

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if you're still having difficulty breathing, ask your doctor if including advair could help improve your lung function. get your first full prescription free and save on refills at advaircopd.com. if you doubt power and influential social media, consider this case of cold-blooded murder. two michigan brothers who spent the past 25 years in prison on a murder conviction are now instead going to get a new trial possibly. thomas and raymond hires were found guilty of gunning down a suspected marijuana dealer way back in 1987. but they were granted a new trial last month after a post on facebook prompted a man to come forward saying he witnessed the killing and that it wasn't done by the hooir brothers who are white but instead was done by

four african american men. you cannot get further off in an eyewitness id. jason carroll is monitoring the case. first of all, what? >> incredible story when you look at it from every particular angle. let's talk about first what's happening today. today we've got a bond hearing that's going on. >> still in prison. >> this bond hearing which is happening actually right now will determine, a, if the judge decides to release them, how much bond they will be released on. you can imagine how tense it is for the family, for the two brothers who served 25 years so far for this crime. >> so why are the new witnesses any more credible than the old witness snes like anybody could come out ft woodwork and say i've got new information for you? spring my friends. >> i think that's what the prosecution is saying in all this. they're saying, look, this has been a conspiracy from the beginning. why are we all of a sudden believing the new witnesses coming for ward? >> you have to remember that these two brother, according to what the defense says, they've maintained their innocence all along. their story has not changed.

and because of this facebook posting that started this whole thing, new witnesses now coming forward telling a different story. >> it turns out these guys, while in the slammer for the last 25 years, didn't perhaps behave as model citizens. they had a few run-ins. if you're in prison for 25 years, you're doing to have a few fistfights. >> that's what their defense would say and what their attorneys would say. what's happening during this bond hearing, you've got people te testifying in their defense. one of the people testifying in the defense, the former warden for the prison and she says she believes in their innocence. she will exclaim they've had problems while in prison but this is what you will have with a lot of inmates. >> the warden? >> the judge will take that into account. >> i thought i heard it all. keep an eye on this one and let me know what transpires after this hearing today. >> you bet. >> jason carroll, excellent work. thank you. defense attorney, legal commentator joey jackson, by the way, lots to say about this. he's going to join me with his take on this case only on cnn. at shell, we believe the world needs a broader

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so, time for legal briefs. we were just talk with jay con carol about the two brothers in michigan who have spent the last 25 years in prison, turns out maybe they should not have. maybe there was a misidentification when it came to the witnesses who testified originally at trial. and it turns out someone on facebook makes a posting and new witnesses come forward and this raises a lot of questions. not the least of which is, what? and, number two, how good are we at identifying people, how good are we at being eyewitnesses? here is the case in a nut shell. 46-year-old raymond and thomas highers, twin brothers, getting a new trial because both were found guilty in 1987 of murder, murder of suspected drug dealer in detroit. but their murder convictions were thrown out by a judge just earlier on this month. that judge now could decide

today whether or not they should be granted bond and be sprung from prison after 25 years behind bars. defense attorney and law professor joey jackson joinin g joining me on this one. and the first question for jason carroll who was reporting this story, is what? because how on earth can you have eyewitnesses at trial who say that two white guys did it and new eyewitnesses who come forward and say, no, four black guys did it. >> crazy. i hate to tell you this, but it happens more often than you would think and that we would like in the legal system. so it is crazy and now you have someone 25 years later and two people who may be sprung as a result of this. usual usually, it is the dna, ashley, but this time it is facebook, and thank goodness for the social media where you have a general conversation and someone who is familiar with the case says, hey, my roommate told me something about this and they get an affidavit from the roommate and the judge finds it credible and as a result, the judge orders a new trial.

>> and was this bad policing or bad eyewitnessing? >> well, you know what, sometimes, believe it or not, a trial is to be a search for the truth, and the search for the truth -- >> did you say supposed to be? >> supposed to be, because there are instances when the jury tries its best to get it right, and sometimes they don't, and as a result they render a verdict and i like to say there are many guilty people free amongst us, and those who are innocent who are unfortunately incarcerated and because, as a result of the judicial system and not bashing it, but sometimes you have a misidentification, and sometimes it is unfair ruling. >> and the juries work with what they get. >> they do. they do. >> and we are not so good at getting it turns out. >> and you know, everybody likes to blame the lawyers that the l lawyers spin so it much, that there is some confusion as to wh what happened tor jurors have a general sense of mistrust and it is a conviction and you have to fight for your life. >> in this particular case, we are waiting for the hearing to

find out if the highers' broer thrs are going to get a new trial. they want to go forward and they are not commenting to cnn and we have reached out to them. they would like to see today pass and get into the further into the second day trial process, but where you have this 25 years later, you put the two guys into a courtroom today and all of the media coverage that says that the guys may have been erroneo erroneously sitting in a cell and missing the funerals of up with of their daughters and their mother and all of the dead witnesses out, there because we are 25 witnesses past and all of the bad memories and the bad memories of 25 years ago if we have bad witnesses. >> so well done as you summarized it. it may work in their favor, because you have to know that there is an afterdate who says, look, i saw what happened and there were four african-americans who happened to be in involved in this and there were not two white people who were there and as a result

of the affidavit and him saying, i was frightened forrer my life and that is why i didn't come forward and that is going to help to get them exonerated. >> but, joey, why is a witness today anymore valuable than a witness back then? >> right, because you have a witness now who has seen something or knows something and wants to say something. >> and wants them sprung. quickly back on the camera here, because i want joey to do something here. can you put your hands behind the back? >> of course. >> i want everybody at home to try this, and put your hands behind the back as if you are handcuff and see if you can shoot yourself in the head. give it a try. give it a try. >> i can't do it, ashley. i can't do it. >> see if you can get yourself in the right temple and take a fake gun behind you and i know you will spend the whole commercial break doing this, but it is not going to work. >> i'm an innocent man. it is not going the work. >> and this is why i am asking you to do this, because it may have happened or maybe not. this is another case that joey jackson is going to weigh in.

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all right. so have you figured out yet how to shoot yourself in the head with your hands firmly cuffed behind your back? that is what police say happened in jonesboro, arkansas. a man named chavi sshs, gets searched not once but twice, a nd they found a tiny bag of marijuana on him, and drug paraphenalia, and they did not find a concealed weapon, but all of the sudden a gun goes off in the back of the cruiser, and they are saying that young man committed suicide in the back of the cruiser, but the problem is that he was handcuff ed with hi hands behind his back. so if you were able to do it, congratulations, because your yoga has paid off, but most people say and his family says highly, highly unlikely. joey jackson back with us now as both criminal defense attorney and prosecutor, and your first

inclination is to say i smell a rat. >> absolutely. and the other issue that he is shot in the right temple and he is left hand and the family said that, and moreover, ashley, he called the girlfriend and said, i will call you from when i get to prison so something is amiss. the federal government is involved and the fbi is investigating and what i would like to say is that the police say that there is a dash cam and the dash cam video as well as audio gives an explanation. >> and look pointing into the camera, and i don't know if i can get a camera shot, but pointing this way, the two cruisers were, you know, trunk to trunk, so you can only hear the audio. >> and their indication to the police is that the dashcam video in addition to the audio c confirms the story. so i'd like to have a chance to evaluate that. i thisk if we had a chance to evaluate that we would know. >> and randy kaye said it was bizarre after talking to the police chief.

and people in the cruiser wiggle their hands down under their butts and tries to get away, and everybody here is thinking suicide and intentional and what about accidental and trying to get the concealed weapon and tuck it behind the seat and it goes off? >> well, ashley, anything is possible, but how do you find a little bag of weed and miss a.38 caliber gun, and it does not make sense, because as a result the community is outraged, and the family is outrage and they are getting together and they want answers and they should get them. >> i hear you about the search, because that is one of the most troublesome parts of this. you miss the gun the first time. you miss the gun the second time, and they miss the sound of the shot in the cruiser as well. >> and no one says anything about the shot, and then there is no window damage so you can't blame it on a sniper, because the windows are rolled up. >> and perhaps the forensics in this case will demystify it, because trajectory and everything else that forensics should prove will answer this. >> 100%