university this fall. the first time a woman has done so in two decades. an honor well deserved and overdue. tonight, romney's ryan revolution. >> we're going to get this country back and november 6th is a date we're going to do that. >> but is everybody on board with a running mate? the newt gingrich once called the ryan budget right wing social engineering. i'll ask him what he thinks of it now. plus, always a bridesmaid, never the bride. tim pawlenty on the man who beat him in the veep stakes. >> i think it's a very exciting, excellent pick. you can't be disappointed about something you didn't really expect. >> why one obama loyalist says the ryan budget plan would be terrible for americans. >> the more people see his plan, the less they will like it. >> plus, spike lee, who's been on team obama from day one. >> he was the savior. black jesus. >> does he think obama's lived up to that expectation? spike lee live on the state of the union, his controversial new

movie and the little matter of jeremy lin. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight, campaign square off. listen to the candidates in their own words on the trail today. >> he's a family man. he is an articulate spokesman for governor romney's vision. but the problem is, that vision is one that i fundamentally disagree with. >> paul ryan and i are going to get america to cut our spending and to finally get us to a balanced budget. >> they're both good men. but they have fundamentally flawed judgment in my view. >> our rights, they come from nature and god, not from government. >> newt gingrich is a man who's changed his tune when it comes to paul ryan.

the former presidential candidate joins me now. mr. speaker, welcome back. >> good to be with you, piers, always. >> i saw you tweeting a picture of you meeting an indian rhinoceros earlier. it prompted the immediate thought, who do you think has the thickest skin? who has the thickest skin, you or the rhino? >> i don't know. the rhino and i were doing all right together. we were at the omaha zoo which is one of the best zoos in the world. it's an amazing thing to come to omaha and realize what a great zoo they have. what a tough campaign it's going to be. whoever wins is going to have a tough skin. i think romney and ryan are going to do just fine. i think they have thick enough skins. >> i was quite struck today given this very violent rhetoric that went on in the republican nominee race and you were in the thick of all that. the tone of the debate today, the tone of the way the two sides talked about each other, was much more conciliatory. noticeably so. how long is that going to last, you think?

>> i don't know, but i thought it was a very good sign. and i agree with barack obama. there's a fundamental difference of philosophies. a fundamental difference of principles. and i wish, you know, if the campaign could be waged at that level, it would be so much better for america. i think that romney and ryan are prepared to wage a campaign at that level. i think that's part of what romney picking ryan said. he wants it to be a big issue. big choice. big decisional election. at least for one day you have obama and biden rising to that level. >> well, it is a big choice now. it's a very clear choice. and the debate is clearly moved away from mitt romney targeting barack obama to mitt romney saying, right, here's my vp running made, and we have a plan now. because everybody knows that paul ryan is associated with a particular budget and a plan. i want to play you back -- you won't be surprised i'm going to do this.

i'm going to play you back what youed to "meet the press" about the ryan budget plan a few months ago. >> i don't think right wing social engineering is any more desirable than left wing social engineering. i don't think imposing radical change from the right or left is a very good way for a free society to operate. >> now, many people would be agreeing with you, when you said that, mr. speaker. but of course i guess now you have to distance yourself from that, do you, because whichever way you dress up the ryan -- >> no, i don't distance myself -- >> -- it is a rad dal -- but it is a radical form of social engineering, isn't it? >> but -- well, but the current ryan plan, which he developed with senator ron wyden, a democrat, the only bipartisan plan to save medicare. the current plan met my test. it allowed you to stay in medicare if you want to or allows you to choose a variety of other systems if you prefer.

remember, it only affects people under 55 years of age. so if you hear a democrat saying that the ryan plan or the romney/ryan plan threatens senior citizens, tt's just plain a falsehood. no one over 55 is touched by this plan. i think in its current form it is a terrific proposal. i'm strongly in favor of it. i endorsed it in september of last year when ron wyden and paul ryan brought it out. let me also point out, it is obama who took $716 billion out of medicare to pay for obama care. it is obama who created a 15-person bureaucratic board to end medicare as we've known it and put bureaucrats between doctors and their patients. i think if we want to have a debate on medicare, republicans and conservatives ought to lean forward and say let's get it the on, this is going to be a great debate because the fact is, it's obama who's been taking the money away from our senior citizens and it's ryan and romney who protect senior citizens and offer reform only

for people under 55. >> but is it one of the big problems with the ryan plan in terms of perception, the fact that he's looking after the very wealthy in america. indisputably. someone like mitt romney would pay hardly any tax under this plan at all. and there is a genuine concern about the lower end of american society. the reason i say that is you're a catholic. paul ryan iscatholic. the u.s. conference of catholics said in may 2012 they felt the fiscal responsibility efforts must protect and not undermine the needs of poor and vulnerable people. that was seen as a clear indication. they were concerned about the ramifications of some of the paul ryan plan. as a catholic, what is your reaction? >> well, first of all, i would encourage everybody who's concerned about catholic social

doctrine to read paul ryan's remarkable speech at georgetown. in which he outlines his commitment to precisely the concerns of the church and helping the poor. i would also remind folks, you know, if you look at greece today, recent announcement, 54% of young greeks are unemployed. 24% of the whole country is unemployed. if you look at the obama record, more people in poverty. more children in poverty. when bill clinton and i were able to jointjointly, on a bipartisan basis, reform. we had 20% reduction of children in poverty because their parents went to work. just two weeks ago, president obama decided he would waive the work requirement. which is, by the way, illegal under section 407. but the whole principle. it doesn't help people to force them into poverty. it doesn't help people to make them more dependent. and i would suggest that what paul ryan's trying to do is

create a society. and what mitt romney wants to do is create a society in which you have a bigger economy, more jobs and a smaller government. and i think legitimately what barack obama stands for is a bigger government, higher taxes, more bureaucracy, a smaller economy and fewer jobs. now, that's a fundamental philosophical choice about which america we want to create. >> i suppose the fundamental debate that's going to be had, though, will come down to whether threpublicans consult the american people. that they are really concerned about jobs, about people's livelihoods and all the rest of of it. if they're also scratching the bacs of their wealthy members. clearly the flaw in the ryan plan. if you're very wealthy, you're going to be doing a lot better out of paul ryan than you would out of barack obama who believes fundamentally the rich should pay more tax.

>> you know, i don't want to sound disrespectful but i do wonder sometimes if you guys all get off in a little club and learn a brand-new mantra and then all repeat it mindlessly. the fact is, these kinds of things were said about ronald reagan. ronald reaganreagan's tax cut, way was developed by jack kemp, who paul ryan workeded for. raised more people to middle class status. createded more jobs. you know, this is the core thing that liberals don't get. if you want to have jobs, you have to encourage job creators. if you discourage job creators, if you engage in class warfare, if you do what barack obama's been doing, you have what we currently have. this is the worst recovery in 75 years. now, nobody in the media seems to want to come to grips with the fact that the obama economic policy is a disaster for the poor. look at the employment rate for black teenagers. look at the unemployment rate for latino teenagers. at what point do we hold the

president accountable for a policy that is crippling the poor in america by crushing the economy under big government? ryan and romney represent a different approach. and i think there's this mantra you guys almost sound like you're an extension of the obama campaign. the ryan/romney plan empowers middle class americans to get a job. when they get a job, their income goes up. they pay more taxes. they are independent. they're able to live their own lives. obama worries about student loans. none of those students are going to get any jobs under obama. ryan and romney are worried about getting jobs for those studentses so they can pay off the obama loans. i think this is a a fundamentally different model. i know everybody in the media wants to rush down and narrow it to one point. how long are we going to tolerate a president who makes the poorest americans more unemployed? who pushes more poor americans on to food stamps? and who eliminates hope for minorities? and that's the barack obama record after four years.

>> i suppose the only point i'd say in return to that, mr. speaker, apart from the fact we're way too disorganized to all get together and plan the same message. i think what i would say, if you believe fundamentally, again, that this is the worst recovery in 75 year, what does that say, though, about the eight years of republican administration which got america into this financial hole? how would you describe that? >> wait a second, piers. very simple factual question. is this the worst recovery in 75 years? the correct answer's yes. hases this recovery -- >> was it the worst recession created in 75 years? >> -- no, no, no, no -- >> no? >> ronald reagan had a deeper recession under jimmy carter and ronald reagan recovered in three years. by the time we got to august of 1984, reagan was running on the slogan "leadership that is working." can you imagine how he'd be laughed off the campaign trail if barack obama claimed the current economy was a proof that

it's working? in fact, he tried it a few weeks ago. he had to then say he was taken out of context. this is failure of barack obama. he has had every single month 8% or more unemployment. the only reason it's that low is the economy has shrunk and people have dropped out of looking for jobs or he'd be at 14% unemployment. this is a tragic result. you at least have with romney and ryan a plan for the middle class, a plan for jobs and a plan for economic growth. and that's what this debate's going to be about. >> well, mr. speak, it's good to see you back in such feisty form. maybe you should spend more time with the animals. i know you love them. >> come to the zoo with me sometime, we'll do it again. >> i'd love to. good to speak to you again, thank you very much. joining me now with more on our big story, a man who was also on the short list of potential

romney running mates, tim pawlenty. governor, welcome back. >> piers, good to be with you. >> the last time we spoke, you were definitely being seriously considered, i felt, for the job of vp. are you disappointed? and i guess more importantly, what do you think about the guy who did get the gig? >> i think it's a terrific pick. i think governor romney and congressman ryan make a tremendous team and they're going to talk about economic growth, getting this country moved back in the right direction. president obama has failed in that regard. i think it's a very exciting and excellent pick. as for me, you can't be disappointed about something you didn't really expect. i was honored to be considered. as i said all along, i think i can help governor romney best in other ways. >> apparently, paul ryan has said that he is going to release two years of his tax returns. which is a little bit more than mitt romney has done so far. when you are being vetted, how many years back do you have to go in the vetting process? >> well, governor romney has committed to release two years

of tax returns. one from the prior year. prelim preliminarily, he's prepared to do that. tax returns, some years of it, was part of that process. >> you think mitt romney should bite the bullet and stick out more returns? unless you've got something to hide, why wouldn't you? >> i think his position's very reasonable, piers, for this. president obama's trying to dangle shiny objects in front of the american people. he doesn't have good results to show. obama care's unpopular and misguided. the porky stimulus bill didn't work. people are hurting. he's got relentless calls for tax increases. other than killing osama bin laden, which any president would have done, he doesn't have a positive record. he wants to bring up these shiny objects or distractions. it should be about barack obama's failure as a president to get this economy moving again and his broken promises. we don't want to have a debate

about 15-year-old or 20-year-old tax retus. that's not the issue. >> obviously by picking paul ryan you could argue mitt romney's played into barack obama's hands, and that many democrats were hoping to pin mitt romney specifically to the ryan budget plan. if you were a guessing man, which percentage of the ryan budget plan could you envisage a romney presidency tually adopting? >> well, governor romney has said he's going to have his own plan and does have his own plan. he's said nice things about congressman ryan's plan. he's embraced parts of it. he's also committed to pducing his own plan. and he has one. trying to get federal spending under control by reducing nonsecurity, nondefense spending by 5%, and much more. but i think if you look directionally at the romney/ryan plan, it's one that's going to get the budget under control, which is part of -- connected to our economy. it's connected to our security. and president obama refuses to

address it. you've got some of the most pressing issues of our time. namely, what are we going to do to save medicare, save medicaid, save social security and the president of the united states didn't have a plan. by the way, piers, there's only one candidate in this race who's cut medicare and signed a bill into law to cut medicare and his name is barack obama. >> finally, governor, if mitt romney does become president in november, he'll be looking for dynamic leaders in his cabinet. are you available? if so what job would you like? >> we're not going to be talking about those kinds of things for many months or weeks. it would be premature and inappropriate to discuss such things, piers. i'm here to help governor romney get elected focus is on getting him and ryan elected. those issues if they even arise will be further down the road. i don't know what my future holds. >> secretary of state maybe?

>> you just don't quit. you're good. trained you well at journalism school and beyond. i'm a volunteer. i'm a volunteer to help the campaign. >> governor, always good to talk to you, thank you. >> all right, my man, thanks. when we come back, a man who takes a very different view of paul ryan. his democratic counterpart on the house budget committee. congressman chris van holen. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] its lightweight construction makes it nimble... ♪ its road gripping performance makes it a cadillac. introducing the all-new cadillac xts. available with advanced haldex all-wheel drive. [ engine revving ] it's bringing the future forward.

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we don't want a welfare state. we don't want a debt crisis. we don't want to prolong this recession. we don't want to keep this path of household incomes going down $4,000. we want to turn this thing around. >> paul ryan got a mixed reception today at the iowa state fair. here is his democratic counterpart on the house budget committee, congressman chris van hollen.

this is like, you know, the political version of a second coming. this guy is going to completely transform the election, mitt romney's chances of winning. he may even find a cure for cancer, who knoknows. but what is the democrat view of the hyperbole now surrounding this guy? >> clearly, piers, he's energizing the republican tea party base. that's what mitt romney brought him on to do. i think he's going to leave a lot of independent voters and centrist voters totally cold. if you look at the romney plan and the ryan plan, the reality is, it does a lot for folks like mitt romney, big tax breaks, but at the expense of the rest of the country. so i don't think this is going to go over very well at the end of the date. i get along personally well with paul ryan but we have very deep differences. i've told him from the start. the more people see his plan, the less they will like it. >> i mean, on a positive, i

watched him, when he was being announced by mitt romney, he's a smart guy, he sort of radiates youthful vigor and energy which is no bad thing when you're up against barack obama. and at least he has a plan. i think that's the argument that makes sense to me. is a lot of republicans and democrats have been flailing around, trying to find an answer to the economic strife, at least paul ryan has a firm plan. there's now a clear ideological difference for american people to vote on come november, isn't there? >> well, there is. there's a very clear choice. i would argue that the president was faced with a very difficult spot when he came into office. the economy was in free fall. he put together a plan that helped turn the corner. we got a long way to go. the president's plan, the second part of it, has actually been sitting in front of the republican house since last september. we haven't had a single vote on that. we voted to repeal obama care 37 times in the republican house. but you're absolutely right. this does provide a very clear

choice. i just believe that when the american people hear the arguments, when they understand the tradeoffs, they're going to come down strongly on the president's side. >> what is notable about the paul ryan plan is that economists seem pretty split. i've read some very eminent columnists whose opinion i respect who just trash it completely. i've read other economists who are very eminent too saying complete opposite. that actually it could work and it could be the answer. how does the american voter cut through all this and actually come to a clear verdict on this plan, giving he's now going to be the vp running made? >> well, piers, i think they should first go and look at the plan and also look at the democratic budget committee analysis of the plan. look at both sides. the math is really very simple. if you provide these huge tax breaks to people like mitt romney and the independent

analysis just came out yesterday that showed under the ryan road map tax plan, mitt romney's tax rates would be below 1%. so if you don't ask anything of the folks at the very top in terms of reducing the deficit, it's simple math to tell you that everybody else gets whacked. that is why seniors on medicare will end up paying a lot more. it will mean deep cuts to education. it will mean deep cuts in our investments and research and infradrawer. things that are important to power our economy. those are the tradeoffs. i don't think the american people want to go back to an economic philosophy of trickle down economics. we tried that in the bush administration. at the end of the eight years, we had lost private sector jjobs. the only thing that went up, piers, were the deficits. now they're saying, well, in order to deal with the deficits, we're going to bring another round of tax cuts to the wealthy. that's going to hit everybody harder if you're going to deal with those over the long term. >> but you wouldn't presumably

quibble with his basic premise. that the priority ought to be trying to get this ridiculously large deficit down. america's economic future could depend on that. presumably, you would agree with him that should be priority. it's just how we get there, right? the. >> priority number one needs to be getting americans back to work. getting the economy moving again. in fact, if we do that, that's the fastest way to begin to reduce the deficit. there's no doubt we have to deal with the long-term deficit. we should act right now to do it. the real question is how we do it. and i think mitt romney and paul ryan are going to have to explain to the american people how you reduce the deficit by asking nothing more for the folks at the very top. >> congressman, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> now, more on our big story. lots of attention on paul ryan today. who is paul ryan? he wrote what some are calling the definitive profile of paul ryan for "the new yorker." he joins me now.

what do you make of paul ryan? i read the piece with fascination. i thought by the end i detected a certain reluctant from you to be overlord with him. reading that correctly? >> when you write one of these pieces about someone who has been so lauded in the press, you know, you want to -- your b.s. detector has to be at a high setting, and, you know, i think there's some criticism of his budget that is well deserved and there's some criticism of the paradoxes in his philosophy that is well deserved. on the other hand, he's a very likable guy. someone, you know, i got to know a little bit in 2009.

and, you know, someone that you can sit around with and chat. he genuinely believes in the power of explaining his ideas. in opening himself up to scrutiny in a way that i think a lot of politicians don't. in my book, he gets a lot of credit for that. i'm, you know, frankly mystified that they put him on the ticket. you just spent 25 minutes talking about the details of a very complicated and, frankly, very controversial set of ideas that mitt romney has now, you know, whether he likes it or not will define his campaign. and i'm sort of -- still can't get my head around why mitt romney has decided to do that. >> i mean, i wondered if the reason primarily could have been the kicking he was taking over his record at bain, which has clearly beginning to work. that's why president obama kept hammering away through the super pacs and so on. i wondered if that was playing on romney's mind. he was losing the battle for the hearts and minds of the american people over the economy when it should have been his strong card.

to actually bring in paul ryan, who has a plan and it's a plan that will certainly resonate with the republican base, was probably not a bad move. >> maybe. i mean, we're not talking about bain anymore, that's true. we're not really talking so much about his tax returns. but why would romney want to replace that conversation with a debate over whether the republicans or democrats are going to harm medicare? republicans have never won a debate over who's going to harm medicare more. that's the part that i don't quite get. to give romney some credit if he's sitting there thinking, okay, i can win this race who do i really want in the white house when i have to deal with that first big set of issues, the fiscal cliff. you know what, i want paul ryan. he knows those issues. and he can give me cover with conservatives when i don't want to go as far as they do. so, you know, perhaps it was more about a governing choice than the election.

but, look, there's nothing in mitt romney's background. we've known a lot about this guy. there's nothing in his background that suggests that this set of ideas and this philosophy is sort of in his dna. you know what i mean, piers? this isn't who he was as a governor of massachusetts. this isn't even really who he was on the campaign trail last year. remember, he was pushed into adopting the ryan plan. so i'm still a little -- i'm surprised by it. but, you know, that's what makings it a great pick. >> there's a new cnn poll out on august 7. it said, presidential debates are the thing that people find most important to their vote now. 57%. the vp choice, 46%. the vp debates, 25%. so it may be that although it matters a lot to the media that the american public actually are much more focused on a bigger picture. it may be this election comes down -- as tight as people think it's going to be. to the presidential debates which are going to be the ultimate reality television.

we saw it with the republicans, didn't we, in the nominee battle. >> absolutely. the debates in the republican primaries truly mattered. one of your guests tonight, pawlenty, his campaign collapsed after he made a mistake in one of those debates. i think they will matter. in 1980 when the country soured on jimmy carter, it was the debates when the public got a look at ryan, decided he was up to the job, that sort of sealed that race for him. so i think they will matter. but look, i agree with you that ryan will fade. nobody's going to vote for -- one way or another on ryan. but the ryan plan is going to be front and center for the rest of the campaign. i don't think romney can get around that. >> yeah, it's a big roll of the dice. ryan izza, thanks for your time. coming up next, somebody who's outspoken. i've got to introduce this guy. two words. spike lee is in the building. >> how you doing? >> welcome, sir. >> you finally got me, huh?

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spike lee's been making movies for over a quarter of a century. "she's got a habit" came out in 1986. "red hook summer." let's just get on with it, spike. i've waited 18 months for you to come on this show. don't want too much preamble. >> i'm glad to be here. >> "red hook summer." i've watched it. gripping powerful film. classic spike lee film. you're back in your own stomping ground in new york. it's raw and it's visceral. it's challenging and provocative. in short, it is you. the lead character who plays this pastor who delivers these fantastic sermon, it's basically you, isn't it, when you're a bit older. >> number one, i didn't grow up in the church. i can't deliver any sermons.

i let my film-making do the talking. >> i suppose what i really mean is it's more metaphoric. this guy, he has a lot of views. he doesn't sugarcoat stuff. >> right. >> your films -- >> that's the tradition of the black preacher, the reverend. dr. king. >> yeah, but also your movies. >> right. >> i think are similar in the sense you don't try to sugarcoat stuff. you don't take us to places like the projects in brooklyn and say, it's all terrible or it's all great. it's both. there's a sort of beauty and a magic to these places. >> beauty and ugliness. >> right. tell me about that. >> that's life. there's beautiful stuff. and there's ugly stuff. and that just happens to be my outlook on life. i'll let people do what they do and that's fine. but this is the way i see the world. i'm lucky enough to be making films since 1986 with "she's got a habit."

>> is america a more beautiful or a more uglier place -- >> today? >> than it has been, 20 years ago, since you started making movies? >> it's that whole thing, one step forward, one step back. i never, ever thought i'd see the day in my lifetime when there would be an african-american president. that night, i was there that night in grant park, chicago. if somebody told me at the walk i'd have left a month early. to walk from brooklyn to chicago to be there for that night. that's one, i had to be there. >> want to play a clip from an interview you did with my cnn colleague don lemon. it's about obama. >> okay. >> expectations were i think way too high. what somebody can deliver, knowing how politics work, and knowing that you have to deal with the congress, in my opinion, the congress that's,

whatever you do, we're blocking it. we're blocking. and every breath we take, we're going to do what we can that you don't get a second term. bottom line. and it hurts americans in the process, tough business. >> i mean, i thought you hit the nail on the head there. the bottom line about obama was he could never live up to expectations. because the expectations were s stratisophically. >> i do interviews with cnn and you take one word. i didn't say that. >> what did you say? >> i said people thought he was jesus. i didn't say he was. >> i didn't do anything, spike. >> when they get you on cnn that thing goes across the bottom of the screen. >> i'm looking, you said spike on obama. nothing controversial about that. >> all right, but that's not you.

>> but i agree with you, there was a kind of atmosphere about him. >> how could that not be? >> i agree with you. the problem is, look, it set the bar so high for him. >> yes. >> how do you think if you're being critical of obama, because i know you're a huge supporter. obviously you're going to vote for him again. i assume you're going to vote for him again. >> yes, very much so. >> where would you be critical? where do you think if he gets re-elected he should push harder? >> the bottom line is economics. people need jobs. people need to stop losing their homes. their life savings. and that health care thing. maybe, you know, you can't go back. but i'm 100% support of him. and i'm going to do what i can to see he gets a second term. and i think that historically second terms, you get to do what you want because four years -- >> you're out.

>> you're out. >> there's a courage that comes with a second term. kind of, well, i'm not going to be here right, so this is my legacy moment. >> any job, if your neck is on the line, if you don't have that threat of -- you love soccer. you're the coach of a team. you know, there's freedom that comes with knowing that your job is not at stake. >> we'll talk more soccer later. you're a fan like me. you're the first american arsenal fan i've ever had on the show. one of the many firsts tonight. i want to talk to you about race in america. you touched on this a lot in the movie. i want to know whether you think america -- i asked this of a lot of people. your view will be fascinating. is america more or less racist, do you think, since barack obama became president? [ male announcer ] eligible for medicare?

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garlic bread, pavarotti. >> gold chain wearing fried chicken and biscuit eating monkey. >> 15 in a car, 30 in an apartment, pointy shoes, red wearing -- >> hold up. time-out! time-out! ya'll take a chill. >> spike lee's film "do the right thing." back with me now. samuel l. jackson. such a cool guy. tweet in the olympics. it was the stuff of legend.

-- the olympics? >> say it again. >> did you like the olympics? >> oh, yeah. this what you wore when you win a medal. >> it was mainly about britain. >> you guys did great. >> wasn't bad, was it? >> you guys did great. >> tell me this, america. >> yes. >> elected its first black president. a moment you talked about. one of those great moments you'll never forget. has it made america more or less racist? >> i like to say first of all african-americans alone did not elect president obama. it was a coalition. black, white, brown, yellow. gay, straight. everybody came together. and it was such a great moment in america. i think some people got tricked into thinking that when he put his -- when barack put his hand on abraham lincoln's bible, that automatically, magically,

presto, changeo, abracadabra, racism would evaporate, and we'd be in the post-racial area. i still don't understand what that word is. so it's still a great movement. i like to say this because i hope you understand that i don't think about race 24/7, 365. i know i have a reputation. but that's not the case. everything i've done is not about race relations in this country. i do care about other things. not to negate that. i'm always being put in this position that i have to speak on race and i'm speaking on behalf of 45 million african-americans, which is not the case for both of those. >> let's swih to another issue then, guns. >> oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,eah, i'll talk about that. >> there was another shooting

today. >> where? >> it was down in texas i think, and three people were killed including i think at least one policeman. random killing again. somebody disaffected. possibly unstable. but we don't know yet. this follows two really appalling massacres. the sikh temple and aurora. aurora being the worst single gun massacre america's ever seen. there's this terrible conspiracy of silence that goes on afterward, it seems to me. >> how many people die of gunshots in england every year? >> this is the point i make. it averages about 30-odd. >> in brooklyn, we might get 30 dependg how much -- how hot the weather is. >> right, so what should america be doing? because doing nothing can't be the answer. >> well, i think that, you know, i'm really in full accord with mayor bloomberg and police commissioner raymond kelly. not as far as the stop and frisk but we have one of the toughest

gun laws in new york city but the guns come from florida, they come from virginia, they come from georgia, and it's like buy ago toothbrush. i mean, there's no checks and balances. the guy from aurora, how can you buy that much ammunition on the internet and that's not a red flag? >> there were never red flags. the gabby giffords guy was clearly mentally sick. no red flags. the aurora guy dressed up as the joker and buys all this stuff. the common theme of those two, the sikh temple guy, there's always buying guns legally. all this stuff is just easy to access. my point is make it incredibly hard. >> well -- >> countries that do that don't get as many gun murders or anything like it. >> so, what do you do about nra? >> well what do you do about nra? which holds this incredible power. >> they got the -- the vulcan death grip.

i mean, like, you talked about it. there's a silence about the power that they have. and they're running things. they're setting the agenda. >> should -- should barack obama, rather than just talk in this kind of slightly rhetoric way, as he does about guns, should he now push? >> i think they both should. i think anybody's running for president has to address this crazy loss of life. i mean, we're dead. this here's the thing. people playing video games. they think, like, all right, i get 20,000 points for shooting the head. when you get shot in the head, you're dead. there's no coming back.

back with super knicks fan spike lee. you are the world's most famous basketball fan. >> no, that's jack nicholson and woody allen. they've been in the game longer -- they had season tickets i was sitting in the blue, which is the roof at madison square garden. >> you worked your way down very successfully, spike. and i mean that as a positive. >> i take it that way. when i was growing up a kid in brooklyn, i never thought i'd be able to sit courtside. i was just happy to be there. >> how did you feel, when yo

heard jeremy lin was gone? to me, he became this instant new york legend. >> hocus-pocus is gone. >> and then gone, how do you feel about it? >> i'm over it now, but i -- it came out of nowhere. the knicks said they're going to sign -- match houston's offer. then the rockets did some third year shenanigans. to me, jeremy lin must have known the knicks couldn't match the third year. >> it's extraordinary to me. >> houston, you want to play for the houston rockets or the knicks? houston? i don't -- >> i just hope he's happy. >> how are you going to feel when he comes to the garden?

>> well, he's got to come down the lane. i think he'll channel me right there and i'll say, how are you doing, jeremy? hey, i'm not -- no blood, no foul, right? >> you just finished doing the mike tyson show in vegas. >> yes. >> every night mike tyson got a standing ovation. and he's one of the most amazing human beings i've ever seen. his highs, lows. he's three years sober. how many people do you know can say i'm great, i'm great, i'm great, i'm great. don't you think i'm great? what's this other thing like? >> he's completely different. he's completely honest about the

good stuff and the bad stuff. >> i have to be honest we're running out of time. your moving is awesome, totally spike lee. coming up, only in america, what i really really don't want to fly the friendly happy skies. . nature valley trail mix bars are made with real ingredients you can see. like whole roasted nuts, chewy granola, and real fruit. nature valley trail mix bars. 100% natural. 100% delicious.

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for tonight's only in america, a new meaning to the phrase, flying the friendly skies. which is my idea of the ultimate traveling nightmare. one reader of gawker claims he has a recording of a flight attendant on a flight from chicago to madison, wisconsin. >> welcome. welcome. you're welcome. let me ask you a question. we're going to take a little short quiz here. how many people are doing really

well today? can we have some thumbs up all those that are doing well? yay! happy happy happy saturday. happy saturday to you. happy, happy, happy saturday. happy saturday to you. we all have gifts on the inside of us, we do. >> it goes on in a similar vein. you get the point. what does it have to do with her if i'm happy. i'm amused by the way the air stewards and stewardesses have decided it's incumbent on them to entertain us in the air. i've listened to comedy exits, songs. and an offer to applaud the pilot after he's landed me in washington, d.c., id