just because they were ceo of ibm. i would like to think she made her point behind closed doors. either way, congratulations to darla and condy, it's an achievement. and to you too, bubba. good evening, you're looking live at the empty chair that todd akin was supposed to be sitting in for a live prime time exclusive interview. the he's the only man anyone in america is talking about tonight. the reason is this -- >> it seems to me, first of all,

from what i understand from doctors, that's really rare. if it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something. you know, i think there should be some punishment but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child. >> it's been a funny day. we had his opponent democratic senator claire mccaskill booked earlier, then she canceled. then we booked congressman todd akin to tell his story. we kept our word. i'm here. did not keep his. he pulled the interview at the last possible moment, leaving us and you looking at an empty chair. it's a very nice empty chair but it remains an empty chair. why would he say yes, then no? we can only speculate. we can tell you this, todd akin has till tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern to say whether he's staying in the race or bowing out and the gop to replace him in the race. congressman, you have an open invitation to join me in that chair whenever you feel up to it. because if you don't keep your promise to appear on the show, then you are what we would call in britain a gutless little twerp. we're going to move on with our big story. here now is congresswoman jan janikowski. the national co-chair of the president's re-elect campaign.

we had mr. akin. he was going to come in here and explain himself and point out why we had all failed to understand his quite straight-forward jumbling of words. then unfortunately he bailed on us. what do you think's going on here? >> well, the republicans are just in a dither over what todd akin said. and of course it would be interesting to hear from him exactly what the science was about what women have our ways of determining whether we keep a pregnancy that's from rape or not. which is really very amazing. and he's on the science committee. so maybe there's some mysterious fact that we're unaware of. and of course the 32,000 women who get pregnant from rape i'm sure would be very interested to know whether or not that rape was really a legitimate rape. a real rape. it's just incredible. but the thing that's interesting to me, piers, is that i haven't really heard republicans

criticize essentially their position, along with akin's position, when it comes to women's reproductive rights and health. paul ryan and todd akin, like two peas in a pod, have endorsed the same legislation. that would limit women's rights to access to contraception. that would make even rape and incest not reasons for having an abortion. that would say that forcible -- it has to be forcible rape. i guess a woman has to have black eyes and black and blue marks in order to actually claim that she was forcibly raped. so the -- i think what's really going on is that the positions, the real positions of the republican party, have now been unveiled. and everybody's really uncomfortable on the republican side of the aisle with that. >> yeah, i think you've hit the nail on the head. i think the big problem here for

mitt romney is he brought in paul ryan i think as an economic battering ram against the president. and it was all going quite well. and the debate was moving to the economy and how they would fix it together. and the polls with showing a certain spirited spike as a result of it. now, it's become romney's worse nitmare. it's gone right back to the social conservative issues he was so desperate to move off on. and the reason he's so desperate to move off is that on abortion for example he has carried out one of the great flip-flops in political history. i mean this was a guy who was completely pro choice. and is now completely pro-life. paul ryan was against any form of abortion for anybody, including anyone who had been raped, and now he himself has had to move to sort of this new position alongside mitt romney's new position. if you're looking at this from the outside, you say, well what do these guys really believe. >> well, and we'll find out some more tomorrow. because the republican platform committee is going to have a

vote on whether or not the human life amendment, which would ban most -- almost all abortions. i believe only maybe the life of the mother would be an exception. mitt romney said he supports it. paul ryan supports it. let's see if that becomes part of the republican platform. and so that that brings in to very clear focus what the republican party really is about. but i just want to say one thing about the economy. for women, the issue of access to contraception and abortion is very much an economic issue. being able to space families. to decide whether or if to have children is very, very much an economic issue for women. and determines our economic future. and so for women, they're really not all that separate issue. >> no, i totally understand that. it will be very interesting to see how this plays out, not the

least because neither mitt romney nor paul ryan at the moment has demanded that akin stand down. they have until 6:00 p.m. tomorrow. this is a clock that's ticking. if they don't denounce him and don't call for him to go and he stays, you could, a, see him lose any way because of the tidal wave of fury building around what he said. and whatever he says about i was misunderstood or whatever. forget it. we all know you were trying to repeat some piece of junk science. which whatever it was was complete lunacy. and the idea that you are a congressman who's in what, his sixth term? or whatever it is, absolutely unbelievable. regardless of of that, if they do not demand that he go, where does that leave them? this will run on until the election. >> well, i think either way, that they're in big trouble. because it really has, as you said, focused the campaign on an issue that they don't really want to go to. they don't want to be talking about women's health. the president was absolutely

right. it really underscored that politicians, who are mainly men, should really not be making decisions on behalf of women's health and that's what's going on. there's a huge gender gap already. for women under 50 the gender gap, that is, the women who chose obama over romney, is 31%. i mean, it is just huge. women are getting the message. unfortunately for them, getting rid of todd akin i don't think is going to get rid of their problem. >> well, i think they're damned if they do, damned if they don't now. because either they get rid of him and he pulls out and it's a huge embarrassment and they probably then lose that seat. or they keep him and he becomes this huge tailsman of fury. about right wing conservative social values. and i think it's a huge problem for them. for now, thank you very much for joining me. >> i appreciate it so much, thanks. the reaction to congressman

todd akin reached the highest levels of the republican party. listen to what mitt romney had to say earlier today. >> his comments about rape were deeply offensive. and i can't defend what he said. i can't defend him. the thing he should consider is what's in the best interest of the things he believes most deeply. what will help the country at this critical time. >> will it be enough to defuse a crisis? joining me now cnn contributor and republican consultant margaret hoover. this is a real mess, isn't it? >> yh, we could have asked for a better story. i think romney preferred to talk about other issues today other than social issues. it's not good. akin clearly is resisting at the moment strong pressure to step off of the ballot, step off of the ticket. he has, as we know, till 6:00 p.m. tomorrow to do it. you can bet there is a very strong chorus of republicans,

from social conservatives, to even social moderates in the party -- the senate hangs in the balance. and if he decides to stay on, claire mccaskill, which was considered a republican pickup, could well likely win her seat back. for the republican cause, if he is a loyal party man, he should step down. that's what republicans across the board are asking him to do. >> right. isn't it rather gutless of mitt romney and paul ryan not to come out and say that? if they believe that, why don't they just say it? >> well, you know, perhaps they will. certainly john cornyn did. john cornyn, is the senate in charge of winning back the senate. the head of the national republican senatorial committee said it very strongly -- in no uncertain terms today. >> he's -- we could hardly -- we could hardly not hear from mitt romney and paul ryan the last week about almost everything. and the reason i think they're being slightly not prepared to go the whole way with akin is their own vulnerability on this

issue of abortion. mitt romney has gone from here to here. he's gone from the furthest possible pro-choice position to the furthest possible pro life. he has no credibility about it really. how could he use this issue to drive people out of office? i guess is the problem. >> he was very -- i disagree about that. that was not something that frankly any republican candidate is out there saying. he is in favor of abortion in the instance of rape. that is not something anyone is saying. the platform committee of the republican party right now is in tampa and will vote tomorrow on whether a constitutional ban on abortion, even in cases of rape, will be part of the republican platform. it has been part of the republican platform -- >> right, but paul ryan has always been opposed to abortion, even in the cases of rape. he's changed his position

because he's the running mate. again, where is his credibility on this? >> if the platform committee votes for it, the platform committee will be in direct opposition from their presidential candidate. mitt romney and ryan have said that the romney/ryan ticket is in favor of allowing women to have the choice of whether to have an abortion in cases of rape. >> but isn't this the problem here, margaret? they went through all this in the nominee race. is that this whole social conservative issue thing doesn't play very well now with a more modern america. you've got an america where seven or eight states now have legalized gay marriage, for example. and you can just see all these things beginning to move the wrong way for the die-hard traditional conservatives. this is the very last thing that mitt romney wanted to blow up, isn't it? >> certainly republicans don't like talking about social issues. yes, we have a problem with social issues when it comes to women. women are overwhelmingly in favor of having the ability to choose. even republican women. this is something that maybe

didn't get picked up in the last part of your conversation. but 78% of republican women believe that women, along with her family, her doctor and her god, should have the choice to make -- to have an abortion. not the government. so republican -- >> right, but that was -- of course -- right, right, right, but the problem for those republican women, their leader, mitt romney, till the early 2000s, was a firm believer in pro choice for women. >> i think the problem is bigger than just romney. >> now apparently a firm believer in the complete opposite. this is where the flip-flopping charge becomes a real problem for him. >> as you know, in the '90s, we had a strong tradition of pro choice republican women and pro choice republicans. particularly in the northeastern region in the united states. that tradition has frankly been rolled back a bit. and was diminished over the past decade. what i hope, and i think what many people hope, especially as we try to renew the republican party so it can appeal to a

broader base. is that it will begin to take back that language. the language of bill wls, the governor of massachusetts. of george pataki of new york, of christine whitman of new jersey. we had a strong tradition of pro-choice republicans in the '90s that has simply receded. and i think there is an opening here for us to make a difference in this election. and, frankly, we know we have a problem. it is simply not unrelated to this issue. >> i completely agree. margaret, thank you very much indeed. >> thanks, piers. when we come back, nate silver and ben smith with more on what tonight's political firestorm means for romney/ryan ticket. had always called oregon home. until i got a job in the big apple. becoming a fulltime indoor cat wasn't easy for atti. but he had purina cat chow indoor. he absolutely loved it. and i knew he was getting everything he needed

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rape is rape. the idea we should be parsing and qualifying and slicing what types of rape we're talking about doesn't make sense to the american people. and certainly doesn't make sense to me. so what i think these comments do underscore is why we shouldn't have a bunch of politicians, a majority of whom are men, making health care decisions on behalf of women.

>> that was president obama earlier today. right now you're looking again at the empty chair where congressman akin was supposed to be doing an exclusive prime time interview with me tonight. he promised he would. the controversy over his comments rages on. what does it all mean for the romney/ryan ticket? joining me now is nate silver and ben smith, editor and chief of buzz feed. welcome to you both, gentlemen. i had this fascinating show so far involving an empty chair which kind of sums up i think what most people think was between mr. akin's ears. ben smith, a quite extraordinary statement by him in this interview about rape and women. which, whichever way you try and explain it, it gets more grubby and more incomprehensible. how is he still in any kind of position to run for the senate? why isn't he gone yet? >> well, nobody can make him go. they are trying. they are pushing so hard to get him out. he was nominated by the republican voters of missouri. despite the fact that the republican leaders in the state

were saying exactly something like this was going to happen. and claire mccaskill, the democrat was pushing so hard to get this guy on the ticket in the hopes that something like this would happen. and it happened, and you saw president obama pounce. he was delighted at that press conference. he couldn't really hide it. >> nate silver, this whole idea of legitimate rape is obviously nonsense. what about forcible rape? which is a line other republicans have used. what is nonforcible rape? have you any idea? >> i don't know about the semantics of it. i do know this is not the type of issue republicans want to be talking about when you have unemployment rate above 8%. they're smart to have pounced on this very quickly. you didn't see a lot of back and forth. even on twitter. people who would ordinarily be party loyalists and defend a candidate, said he's got to go right away. the spontaneity.

and fact he's staying in is shocking. it's shocking he said it in the first place. conditional upon that, the kind of person who would have that judgment in the first place. would stay in the race even though chances to win are low and are going to hurt their party. >> ben smith, i talked earlier about the problem for mitt romney here is his whole position on abortion has changed so dramatically. this is the very issue he would least want to have as a public debate. he probably thought last week, great, we've moved off all social issues now. we can get into the economy. that's my strong point in many ways. as it is paul ryan's. now he's having to face this barrage of questioning about the one thing that he's probably most vulnerable over. >> i actually think romney's certainly vulnerable having been all over the map on this stuff. i don't think a lot of voters look at him and think he's going to be somebody who will crew crusade against abortion. there's just nothing in his record or persona that suggests that. in nominating paul ryan, he was trying to make a statement about

the economy. that's what ryan is known for, what he likes to talk about. ryan is also very, very conservative on abortion. he's one of the -- i think he's 100% rating from the national right to left committee. he was -- he did help push a bill which in its earliest incarnation tried to make a distinction between forcible rape and i think they were trying to say statutory rape and things like that. some republicans consider a loophole in laws for federal funding in terms of this issue. and were trying to slice that very fine. immediately saw how politically toxic it was and backed off. he has been on some of the most conservative legislation on this issue. >> other issues boiling over today. president obama didn't hold back. he came and spoke to the press. and the issue of mitt romney's taxes came up again. mitt romney came out and said for the last ten years i've paid at least 13% in taxes. this seems to me quite traordinary. listen to what he said, and then i'll come to you. >> for us to say that it makes

sense to release your tax returns, as i did, as john mccain did. as bill clinton did, as the two president bushes did, i don't think is in anyway out of bounds. i think that is what the american people would rightly expect. >> so president obama being quite firm there, and pointing out -- it's not a bad point to make. mitt romney's own father was a guy who revealed 12 years. is it good enough for mitt romney to say, look, i can tell you, trust me, i've paid at least 13%. by the way, is 13% enough for him to have paid to allay the concerns of the american public? many of whom are out work or lost their homes, whoever it may be. suffering real financial hardship. this multimillionaire admitting but not allowing any proof to be brought forward that he paid a really low rate anyway? >> i think the problem is people's imagination might almost be worse with all the

different possibilities of what it could be. he's making a calculation. he's a rationale guy. that whatever's in there is worse than the price he's going to pay. but i think it makes him hard to get over a kind of feeling of support and his favorability ratings. where people feel like they can't trust him as much. can't connect with him quite as much. if you look at obama's approval ratings right now, they're about break even, you think the election is a tossup. the favorability numbers where obamas are better than romney's in most polls swings that election by a couple points towards the democrats and that's all you need. win 207 electoral votes and win the popular vote. so i think it's a marginal issue. if you really wanted a game changer, maybe he wouldn't have released his taxes last week and not picked paul ryan potentially. i do think it's an issue for him. more so than the bain stuff. i think you have a lot more national defense over it. than just not releasing your taxes at all. when two thirds of the public

says you should. >> yeah, well, bain is more transparent, there's no question about it. you can study really what happened at bain. you can't study tax returns you haven't seen. very quickly on the tax, do you think he should release more? >> i think any reporter who cover these guys would like to see them release every single document they can for sure. i do think the story of how his father released them is an amazing story. the reporter asked for one year. was not the tradition in the '60s. george romney said no, and came back and said, i thought this through and here's 12 years. it's obviously a very different thing. >> finally, ben, this bizarre story of house members in the sea of galilee, jumping in naked. what do you make of this? >> it's like cousin eddie, my colleague john stanton wrote. they're like the drunken in-laws that paul ryan has brought along to this thing. they're just on this -- i think

the ticket is kind of watching with horror as the house of republicans just kind of reels through the campaign season. naked in the sea of galilee. >> i think you've hit the nail on the head. gentlemen, thank you both very much. >> thank you. coming up, my exclusive with ricki lake on rosie o'donnell's heart attack and her new talk show. ricki, welcome. great to see you. >> thank you for having me. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multi-vitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. ♪ it has more of seven antioxidants to support cell health. that's one a day men's 50+ healthy advantage.

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all the things that matter to me i think apply to all of my audience. that's probably one of the reasons i've had success in the past. people relate to me. they feel like i could be their neighbor. i'm sort of the every woman. >> young women think in america and -- you may start with ricki lake. she's tackled tough subjects with her first talk show. this fall, she'll be back with the new ricki lake show. she's also a documentary filmmaker, author, runnerup in "dancing with the stars." >> i mean, it's a busy life but it's a good one. >> you start in two weeks, right? i reckon you'll be piling into this ridiculous republican who has been coming out saying rape has to be legitimate. even if it is, women's bodies have a way of repelling

conception due to it. >> well, my reaction is to not talk publicly about it. that's not my forte, politics. >> you've written books about babies and -- >> i believe it's a woman's right -- >> forget the politics. i just found the comment so offensively ignorant towards women is my point. that's where my anger comes from. >> i speak out about women's rights all the time. i made this movie the business of being born. i feel a woman has a right to make choices about her body and her babies. >> i think so, don't you? do you find it odd that we're still even debating this in 2012? >> it's disappointing. again, what i'm doing with my new show is really focusing on issues that aren't necessarily political but are about women's issues in general. >> give me an example. when your new firecracker show starts, and i can't wait to watch it -- what kind of thing are did a show on hormones. for me, i'm 43 years old. i did my old show from the age of 24 to 35. i want to know what i can do preventively. i want to know about the hcg

diet and how healthy it is for people. bio identical hormones are something i'm very interested in. focusing on topics that matter to me and matter to women 25 to 54 is what we're talking about. so i'm amped. i feel what's missing for me as a viewer. i miss oprah. i miss that sort of relevant sutance in day time television. and that's what hopefully we're going to offer. >> are you excited? are you nervous? both? how you feeling? >> i'm not nervous fom the standpoint, i did it before. but i've evolved. i feel like this show is a reflection of where i am in my life. it's a little smarter. a little bit more relevant. obviously, i don't know what's going to happen with the ratings. i think we're focusing on doing the best show we can do for women. >> katie couric's lurking. >> she is. i'm a fan. i'm certainly look forward to watching her show. i'm sort of the every woman. i'm not an expert. i'm not a doctor. but i really care about the world at large. i have a natural curiosity about relationships. about what makes people tick.

i'm going to have an amazing platform and a great, great sort of energy for the audience to feel like they're a part of the conversation. >> entertainment world lost one of the greats today, phyllis diller. amazing career and life. did you ever meet her? >> i have a feeling i did. i can't remember specifically. certainly she was just a legend. i think everyone from joan rivers -- all these other comedians. because of her setting the trend. >> the thing about hollywood, longevity is a very difficult thing for people to enjoy. you've had an extraordinary career -- >> i've been around for almost 25 -- >> a few highs, a few lows, so on. what are the secret to getting over the low parts? >> for me, it's being true to myself. john waters told me when i was 18 years old. he said always be true to yourself. always stay humble. if you're going to read the the good press, you have to read the bad. anyone who's known me for as long as i've been in this business, they know i'm pretty

much the same. >> last time we spoke, you had just got married. your new husband was sitting over there. >> yes, you embarrassed him. >> you embarrassed him, it wasn't me. the conversation became very quickly x-rated. you were quite proud of your quite glittering sex life. how have things moved on since then? >> it's pretty much stayed the same. he's not here today. he's actually recovering from some back stuff. nothing to do with me. no, we're great. i have to say, i have such a great balance right now. my life is a little nuts. but to get to know home to him and my kids. and to have a sense of normalcy. i'm really pumped about this opportunity i've been given to come back to day time with something i feel like matters to women. i think women will want to tune in. and then i get to go home to my sweetheart at night. he's supportive of me and everything i do. i feel like it's a perfect balance. >> let's take a short break.

we touched on this last time. like a fine wine. >> getting better with age, that's right. >> every te i see you. >> thank you. black blank questions. when you're caring for a loved one with alzheimer's, not a day goes by that you don't have them. questions about treatment where to go for extra help, how to live better with the

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ricki lake's first talk show in the '90s. back with me now exclusively. tell me about your dazing appearance. >> there's no secret. i'm not dancing anymore so you can probably see there's a few extra lbs. i'm happy. i'm really, really happy. i think that is the secret, you know, and like i said before it's about a balance. i get to work hard and i get to play hard. it's a good life. >> remember the classic oprah shows when she had her own seesaw experience with weight and food and so on. they're always completely gripping. it's so real. this is what your kind of viewers are going through on a daily basis, isn't it? >> absolutely. we're going to cover that on the show. i think as much as i'm uncomfortable being a role model to women.

they want to know how did you do it. it's part of our problem with our culture. i hate that i'm sort of implicated by being someone that talks about it. but it's also real life. >> kind of inspiring i think. a lot of women will look at someone like you and realize you've been through real problems. not the sort of size zero they see on the magazine. >> i never will be. >> i think it's dangerous imagery. >> well, we're doing a lot of stuff on the show about body image. which is something i struggle with. having been a size 4 and been a size 24, it's very hard for me to look in the mirror and kind of appreciate where i am right now. i don't know what looks good on me clotheswise. >> can i help you? this. love the dress. love the hat. >> thank you, thank you. i think it's something i struggle with. i think a lot of women can

relate to that. it's something i can't hide. something about my show, i think if people are going to watch, they know what you see is what you get. it's still one of my battles. it's still something i'll take to my grave. >> rosie o'donnell came out today and said she had a heart attack. >> i heard that. i reached out to her. she's a dear friend of mine. it was shocking. i think the fact she is going to recover from this is awesome. i think what she will do talking about what women need to know about health issues and heart attacks. >> does she know really what brought this on? >> i don't. i just direct messaged her through twitter and said i'm thinking about her. she and her wife -- or fiance have had a really tough year. i send her my love. >> how many twitter followers do you have now? >> only 165,000. how about you, piers? >> i'm glad you asked. nearly 2.6 million. >> oh, my gosh. i think when i was here last year, you were right around 1 million. you're on it. i think it's about giving the time. i certainly give the time -- >> do you like it?

everyone gets it. but when people are really nasty or vicious -- >> i don't really see -- people -- thank goodness have been really nice to me. it's overwhelming at times. you feel like you want to respond to everybody. i think it's an incredible resource to be able to share information, share articles about things that are inspiring to me but i'm trying to -- can you do anything about that? >> yes. what's your address? >> ricki lake. @rickilake. >> follow ricki. >> thank you so much. >> the show starts in two weeks. >> we have been in production for fo weeks. >> i've heard this interesting thing about it. you're going to have webcams around your production meetings. >> no, we're doing an after show. we're giving a 360 experience

through social media. we've been doing these live production meetings so the audience feels they're a part of the production of the show. to get feedback on what they want to see but also for them to feel they're a part. >> if my viewers saw our production meetings, i'd be off air. totally. >> what you see is what you get with me. they like what they see. >> shouting at publicists. you wouldn't believe what happens on this show. listen, best of luck with it. i really miss your old show. >> thank you. >> i think you have a natural warmth and empathy with an audience. especially in day time. it's going to be a great battle. you and katie. anderson of course. >> yes, yes, yes. no, i'm very, very grateful to have the opportunity to hopefully i'll do the audience proud. >> who is the greatest talk show host you've ever seen? present company excepted. >> well, i loved phil donahue. i mean, he was someone -- i really emulate his old show -- >> he was great. he came in. he was a firecracker. >> i was on oprah with phil

donahue. they did a whole talk show icon show which i was so touched to be a part of. i love oprah. of course oprah is the queen and always will be. >> she was. best of luck. come back again soon. >> thank you so much. >> ricki lake. show starts in two weeks. coming up, the true crime story america's obsessed with. i'll talk to the man who is trying to keep him from a life behind bars. [ male announcer ] let's say you need to take care of legal matters. wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier, less-expensive option th using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way. we took the best of the old and combined it with modern technology. together you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support. legalzoom documents have been accepted in all 50 states, and they're backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself. it's law that just makes sense.

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♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. sensational murder trial resumes tomorrow in chicago. prosecutors say the 2004 drowning death of his third wife was a murder, not an accident. his fourth wife, stacy peterson, is missing and presumed dead. drew peterson's not been charged in that case. joining me now is his defense attorney. thank you for joining me. why are you so convinced of your client's innocence? >> well, there's absolutely no evidence, i mean no evidence, he was anywhere near kathleen savio's house when she died.

nothing connecting him to the crime, if there even was a crime. there's no murder weapon. no dna. no physical evidence whatsoever. no finger prints. no sign of forced entry. nothing. so if you don't have a crime, by de facto, you have an accident. >> we had dr. larry blum, he's the forensic pathologist. he testified her death could only have been a homicide. he said the following. that she had deep bruising on the front of her body. a fresh gash on the back of her head. was found face down in the dry bathtub. wasn't susceptible to falling. wasn't under the influence of any drugs or alcohol. was a pretty strange set of facts if it doesn't involve homicide, wasn't it? >> for example, the drowning in the dry bathtub thing is everybody, even larry blum, said cathy savio died. and nobody's ever said she drowned anywhere outside the bathtub because in the whole

house there's no sign of any disturbance. as far as the physical bruises on the body, for example, larry blum testified that the mark on her rear end was an abrasion, which gives you that whole what side of the body did she fall on. however, when we were cross examining him, we showed him records that said she had scarring on her rear from a skin condition and she actually went and saw a dermatologist about it only six months before she died. he hadn't seen that record. so, you know, it's not as open and shut as one might think. even larry blum agreed that three prominent pathologists we've had review the matter all believe it's an accident. great minds can differ in a matter like that. >> did you see the lifetime movie starring rob lowe as drew peterson? if so, what did you think of it? >> first, i thought rob lowe looked more like the state's attorney than he it like drew.

but, i mean, it was clearly fictionalized. i mean, it's hollywood. when they ask me about what i thought the influence would be on a jury, i said that anybody that thinks a lifetime movie portrays facts probably shouldn't be on a jury in the first place. they fictionalized it. there's a lot of things in there that didn't happen. we were able to keep anybody off the jury who had watched the movie. so i don't think it's going to have any influence on the outcome of of this trial at all. >> how hard is it to represent somebody or to defend somebody ? does it matter in a criminal case? >> well, to some extent, it does. to some extent, it doesn't. obviously, the people that we care about, the people -- the community that we care about are the 12 people in the jury box. that's what they think that matters. but i'm sure that even though 12

people, and everyone as insulated as they are, really can't divorce themselves from, you know, the rest of the community. to some extent it has an influence, but, you know, look, whether or not they believe he's guilty, the question,in reality, can the government prove it. if the government can take somebody's rights away and throw them in jail, whether or not you glooinchtsds think he's a bad person and do it without proof, we're not free any more. so it's really beyond whether you like him or don't like him, it's about whether the government can take somebody and throw them in a room for the rest of their lives without any evidence. if they can, we may as well give up saying we're free people. >> you've been his attorney since 2007. do you have any theorys yourself about what happened to stacey peterson? >> stacey peterson is an ongoing investigation. soy don't want to talk too much about it, but i know that we had

a hearing in 2010 that involved her disappearance. and there's a great deal of evidence. there's a reason she hasn't been -- drew hasn't been charged with anything involving her disappearance. and there's a great deal of evidence that she like her mother was thinking of -- was tired of the situation. a 23-year-old girl raising four children, two were almost teenagers. she was in a situation she shouldn't be in, and she wanted to get out of it, and there's a great many people she talked to about it, that haven't been made public. it's a lot more in that case. as you're saying, it's an ongoing investigation, and they're still compiling it, and i think that my opinion, from looking at that evidence is that she did what her mother did, she ran off without a ace, just like her mom did. >> in the five, six years or so that you've known drew peterson, one of the problems that he has in terms of perception is just his personality great toward people. what kind of guy is he, when there are no cameras around and he's not showing off a bit? >> he's a very down to earth

guy. a very personable guy. he has a lot of charisma. you know, like, for example, we have some interns helping us in this case. there's a lot of evidence and a lot of work, we have a couple first year law students that are helping us. during the break, you're chatting with them. he's chatting about how they like their first year of school, what type of courses do they like, what's going on in their lives, he's giving them, believe it or not, a little bit of advice, he's raised four kids, all of them -- i mean, six, the little ones, he's raised four, his children are valedictorian at school. one wants to be a doctor, the other a lawyer. he's really an average personable guy that's really nice to know and nice to deal with.

a type of person that you've probably -- if there wasn't all this stuff around, you wouldn't mind having for a friend. >> joe, thank you very much for joining me. >> it's my pleasure. >> before we go, only in america, let's go back to the empty chair, which was supposed to be todd akin, who was going to be lking to me tonight about why he said what he said about rape. since it's just a chair, i may as well toss a few questions at it before we go. my first, why were you such an offensive idiot to women. why haven't you resigned yet. let's leave it there, shall we? when we come back, only in america, it's about time augusta national finally does the right thing for women after 80 years. . and inspires the things you choose to do. you do what you do... because it matters. at hp we don't just believe in the power of technology.

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for tonight's only in america, ladies take your tee. the last great dinosaur of sexism in world sport has finally been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century and admitted its first female members.

former secretary of state condoleezza rice and donna moore. it must have been an agonizing moment. the augusta national chairman he said without any trace of irony, these accomplished women share our passion for the game of golf. it will be a proud moment when we present condoleezza rice and donna moore membership. the ladies are in, and augusta has at last grown up. a few months ago, bubba watson and i talked about the club's ban on female members. how could it hurt to have a female member? what are they going to do? >> i know who's not going to be a member. >> who, me? >> you is. >> i'm banning myself.