figure? or is he going to be marion jones or barry bonds who are looked at with less heart? we don't know, you know. time's going to tell. >> it's a remarkable tale. bill strickland, thank you. we ran out of time for the riduculist. that does it for this edition. the latest on the storm hitting haiti at 10:00 p.m. "piers morgan tonight" starts "piers morgan tonight" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com we start with breaking news. looking live at one of new york's most iconic landmarks. the scene of a deadly shooting. extraordinary surveillance video. it's very graphic. we're showing it to you because it clearly indicates the shooting suspect, jeffrey johnson, turning towards police officers and apparently pointing a gun at them. he is shot by the officers and

falls to the ground. the mayhem began when johnson allegedly shot and killed a co-worker, steven ercolino, outside the empire state building, eight people were wounded, several of whom may have been caught in the cross fire. joining me now exclusively, a man who was wounded in today's shotting. he sells tickets to the empire state building for the tour. also rebecca fox, an eyewitness. welcome to you both. very harrowing day. i know you've been through an extraordinary experience there. let me start with you, robert. you were shot in the arm. did you know what on earth was going on? you were off to your normal work at the empire state building. what happened? >> -- when i we up this morning, for some reason, something was telling me not to go to work. like something told me to call the company and tell them i couldn't come in. usually when something bad is about to happen, i always have this feeling. ike li

i'm like well, i was off the day before. it was only eight hours anyway. i got up. i clocked in. so the bus came and picked us up. as soon as the bus dropped us like 15 minutes later you see people running. so, i'm saying to myself, "why is everybody running?" i'm not the type to follow crowds. so i turned around. when i turned around, i saw this guy about 5'4" suited up with a briefcase, he was coming towards my direction. i seen the cops come and follow him. ingue i guess the cops were talking to him. then he stopped. i guess he dropped the briefcase. and he fired -- one of the police officers -- >> you think he did fire? because it hasn't been confirmed yet. >> no, i seen him pull out the gun and i heard just one shot.

after that, all you just kept hearing were shots. one of the police officers missed the target and hit me in the arm. when i fell, i was in pain and i was in shock. >> we have got an image of you actually lying there. really, what a thing to happen to you on your way to work. ghastly experience. rebecca, you were watching all this. obviously, you're a -- the last thing you expected to see. >> i was coming up from the green line. normally i take the nrqw in the morning which would have put me at the corner where the shoing actually happened. i was getting my coffee. on 34th and fifth and walk towards fifth avenue. i saw a bunch of people running. i thought there was actually a celebrity sighting. i never would have expected there would be a shooting. i had headphones so i couldn't hear anything. i took mi headphoy headphones o.

i actually work across the street from the empire state building. i saw a woman sitting on the ground. she had been shot in the foot. and then i looked halfway down the block, right where you enter the empire state building. the supposed -- the gunman had been shot. i saw cops surrounding him. and they had turned him over. tried to flip him over. i saw his head move slightly up and then back down. so i thought he was still alive. but it turned out he had died later on. someone had told me he was actually in pursuit of another man by the starbucks on 33rd going towards sixth avenue. i walked towards there and i saw coffee cups strewn over the ground where people had probably run for their lives. i smelled gasoline because i think one of the bullets hit a car. and saw the guy shot on the ground. >> is it likely -- right. the general feeling seems to be now probably all the injuries outside of the man who was himself killed were probably sustained from police fire.

they were ricocheting bullets. would you think that's probably right? >> yes. i'm positive. because, like, one of my co-workers that was hit, it was, like, say, about, four feet away from me, he was trying to come from my direction. so all of a sudden, he just dropped, like, to the ground, like, you could tell the bullet was coming from the police officer. because the way the guy was facing. and the cops was actually facing us. >> if the police hadn't, of course, shot at him, he may well have started shooting anyway. >> i don't think so because when he was coming, he was just holding the briefcase. the only reason -- for me, i felt like the reason he started shooting i guess is cause the cops was following him and he ew he was going to get caught. >> he had just allegedly committed a murder, which he knew. >> right. >> stay here for a moment. i'm going to bring in now the brother of the man that the gunman killed.

mr. ercolino, let me first of all express to you my sympathy on the loss of your brother. it's an awful thing you've had to endure for you and your family today. tell me how you heard the news. >> well, piers, it was -- it started off as a beautiful morning. i'm taking my son up to college to put him into his dorm. and i got the phone call from my father that my brother had been shot outside -- by his offices. i didn't know right away if he was alive or if he had been killed. found out -- he had died from the gunshot wounds. >> did you or any of your family have any idea about the relationship between the man that killed your brother and your brother? because they worked in the same

department store. they had had some kind of falling out. and the shooter had -- he'd been laid off. had been going back apparently to pick up various paychecks and so on. and each time he'd gone back, the reports are saying there would be some kind of altercation with your brother. and then obviously it led to this appalling shooting. did anybody at any stage -- did your brother ever say he had a problem with this guy? >> no, my brother is -- you know, he's such a loving uncle to his nieces and nephews. when we're together in the family, we keep the business things to ourselves. we don't talk about what's going on with our business stuff. if something had happened. -- anybody in my family -- >> what is your feeling today? there's been so many of these

appalling gun atrocities in recent weeks. this is obviously a very different example. but, still, this man has used a firearm. which we believe he was owning illegally in the city. we think he bought it legally but he may not have had a permit to use it now. but he used this gun to allegedly murder your brother. what do you feel about guns in america right now? >> you know, i don't think this is a referendum on guns in america. this is something that happened that could have been a baseball bat. it could have been a knife. you never know when something like this happens. i don't think it's a referendum on guns in america. -- bring my brother back and i don't look at it -- i believe

you have the right to carry a handgun legally if you -- if he wasn't carrying it legally obviously that's against the -- you know, but nothing's going to bring my brother back. >> well, can only, again, express my deepest sympathies over what has happened to steven today. it's just a terrible thing. i extend it to you and your family and all your friends. it's not something that should be happening. thank you for joining me. >> no, it's not something that should happen to a loving person like that and he's going to be so missed by everybody. he was the light of so many livings. >> i'm sure. that's what i'm hearing from a lot of his friends and family members. thank you for taking the time on such a difficult time for you. joining me now on the phone is a man who knows a lot about that, former new york mayor rudy giuliani.

rudy, welcome. >> how are you, piers? >> fine. just i think there's a very valid point there made by paul ercolino, brother of the tragic victim steven. saying it's not a time to debate referendum on guns. i totally accept that. there also has been over 19 in chicago, 19 different shootings. following what happened in aurora, the sikh temple, so on, the issue of guns is now becoming ever more prevalent through a number of different incidents. what do you think should be done if anything? maybe not as a direct result of this which appears to be a very disaffected man taking some kind of awful revenge on a guy who used to employ him. what do you think generally should be done now? mayor bloomberg's been very vociferous about demanding new types of gun control and so on. clearly in chicago they have pretty tough gun control laws, but they're still getting these

wild west nights. what do you think should happen? >> well, you know, i think these -- the situations are not the right situations to pick to debate gun control. either this one or the one that took place a couple weeks ago. or the situation in norway a year ago where they have very strict gun control. they have no guns. 67 people were killed by a maniac. when you have this kind of irrational killing, gun control, even the elimination guns, is not going to prevent a killing like this. we don't know why this man killed. i'm willing to assume it was an irrational reason. a deep-seated hatred that triggered something irrational in his mind. and this isn't the kind of case that's going to be prevented by gun control. and what happens sometimes when people seize on gun control as the answer to this is they're trying to escape a deeper more painful question which is human

behavi behavior. human beings held responsible for the crimes they commit. when i was mayor. when i started as mayor of new york city, new york city was averaging 1900, 2,000 murders a year. when i left, it was down to 600. now it's down to 500. chicago had the same gun control laws we had. and chicago had per capita, all during that period to today, three times more murders than we had. and i thought it was our sensible policing. the kind of policing we did. i think that's what really reduced the violence in new york city. which did try to take guns away from people who didn't have them legally. >> well, it's a desperately sad story. again, my sympathy, to him and his family and to all the victims. thank you for you, too, for coming in. if i could shift gears to the

republican convention that's coming up. mitt romney got into a bit of hot water today. i'll play you the joke he did about birther. let's watch this. >> now, i love being home in this place where ann and i were raised. where both of us were born. ann was born at henry ford hospital. i was born at harper hospital. no one's ever asked to see my birth certificate. they know this is the place that we were born and raised. >> be honest, do you think that was a little below the belt? >> no, but i think it was not the most tasteful joke. i think -- it's not very serious. i think it's kind of -- i mean, i think president obama has joked around about his birth certificate. it's one thing for president obama to joke around about it. it's another thing for us to do it. probably if mitt had a chance to think through that, he wouldn't have said it quite that way. i think unfortunately, the last

three weeks, it's been, you know, one gaffe after another that we're focusing on, instead of the fact that our economy is in shambles. you know, this is like nero fiddling while rome is burning. and the president is going around attacking romney all the time and not talking about what he would do to fix our economy. and that's what they should be debating. what they should be debating is why the economy is in such bad shape. why president wasn't able to fix it the first two years he was in office when he had a democratic majority, house and senate. those are the kind of things i like to hear about. not maybe a mistake mitt romney makes or a mistake joe biden makes or a mistake some crazy congressman this guy running for the senate, i mean, his comment was probably the most idiotic of all. >> are you excited about the convention, rudy, or are you slightly apprehensionive? >> i'm only apprehenve because of the storm it i think it's going to be a great convention.

i'm really looking forward to chris christie's speech. i was the first republican from outside of the state of new jersey to support chris. so i consider him a good friend and somebody whose career i watched right from the very, very beginning. from the first day he announced right in front of jon corzine's house which will give you the idea the kind of guy he is. right in your face and telling you the way it is. it's going to be an interesting keynote speech. i think this is a chance for paul ryan to really introduce himself to the american people. i think so far he's been better than expected. i think it's a good chance for mitt romney to explain himself in a personal way to the american people. i'm look forward to that. i hope this hurricane doesn't prevent too much of of it from going on. >> hurricane permitting, i will see you down there, rudy. >> i'm looking forward to it. hopefully, we'll all be able to get there. >> well, listen, thank you for joining me, i appreciate it. thank you. thanks again to you, to robert

and to rebecca. an awful day for you. i hope you go home and get some rest. coming up ex next, banned for l. lance armstrong pays the price for doping allegations. [ male announcer ] citi turns 200 this year. in that time there've been some good days. and some difficult ones. but, through it all, we've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in mern history. so why should our anniversary matter to you? because for 200 years, we've been helping ideas move from ambition to achievement. and the next great idea could be yours. ♪ you want to make sure it goes up and stays up. [ chirp ]

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every time we chose to just sit back and let it pass, we've sort of reached the point where we really can't tolerate any more and we're sick and tired of these allegations and we're going to do everything we can to fight them. they'reabsolutely untrue. >> lance armstrong speaking back in 2004. now he's gone from the greatest tour de france winner of all time, inspiration to millions,

to an athlete banned for life from the sport of cycling. explain how a one-time hero fell so far. "usa today" sports columnist christine brennan. welcome. were you as shocked as everybody else seems to have been when he threw the towel in? >> yeah, he gave up. the ultimate battler in sports just quits. i don't know if i was completely shocked because he'd been saying this all along, that he was fed up and sick and tired. the thought that he would -- as you say, wave the white flag of surrender knowing that that meant he was lose the tour de france titles, be banned for life and forever be labed a cheater at least officially. you know, he's got his fan base. it tells you i think he was very concerned about what the testimony would have been in arbitration if he had falsed that. so he decided to go to the court of public opinion instead. >> to all the fans in uproar,

i've been on twitter, give you my view. to me, he's obviously i think throwing the towel in because he was a cheat. but there are many people still defending him. saying, look, he never failed a drugs test and this is a complete stitch up. what do you say to that? >> marion jones never failed a drug test and she is known as one of the great cheaters of all time. ben johnson passed all kinds of drug tests in the '80s before he was caught that one time. frankly, now, they call them nonanalytical positives. there are more and more, dozens of them, catching athletes with documents, with testimony, the way they would, say, in a trial. so it's nice of lance to try to say that and pull the wool over everybody's eyes. but the reality is, in this part, in this time, in 2012, you can definitely get away with it by not -- by cheating and by

being able to pass drug tests. and that is no indication nany more, sad to say, because the bad chemists are way ahead of the good chemists. no indication you're not cheating if you pass drug tests. >> do you think there's any doubt lance armstrong was a cheat? >> i'm a journalist. there always has to be some doubt because how can we know for sure. the evidence is overwhelming. why would lance run away from this and not face arbitration. dozens of athletes do this. he would have been able to pick one of the arbitrators. the u.s. anti-doping agency would have picked another arbitrator. those two arbitrators would have picked a third. this was not a kangaroo court. it would have been a very fair look at what the evidence was. so my informed decision after covering this for many years is to say yes, it sounds like he is one of the great cheaters of our era. that's very sad because of what he means to the cancer community. >> you can't take away the fact

that he's raised whatever it is, $500 million, for cancer charities. that's very laudable. the problem is lance armstrong has had this reputation of being one of the good guys of sport. and i'm afraid today that's all been shattered. he will go down as a cheat. that's a shame for him. it's a bigger shame for sport and for the fans who believed in him. christine, thank you for joining me tonight. >> piers, thank you very much. when we come back, made in america. can the man who built the apple store save another american institution? [ male announcer ] now you can swipe.

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big news for apple today. california jury says apple should get more than $1 billion in damages after finding that samsung was guilty of willful violations of apple's patents in the creation of its own mobile products. one of apple's great unsung heroes. ron johnson built the apple store from the ground up. now ceo of jcpenney, a job many view as tougher, as he tries to rebuild that iconic institution. ron johnson joins me now. welcome. >> great to be here. >> you don't do things by

halves, do you? >> no, i love big challenges. >> the reason i wanted you here, on the eve the first of the two conventions was you're the turn-around guy. you're the guy that steve jobs entrusted to create the apple store vision and make it hugely successful. you've now gone to jcpenney. another huge challenge. we'll come to that in a moment. i want you to run america. i want you to take what you've learned about business and tell me what you're looking for from these leaders over the next two weeks. >> well, i think leaders have to tackle the big challenges. our country has some big ones. we got a great heritage to rely on. clearly, the government deficit in jobs are extraordinary challenges for our country. and we got to take them on. over the last four years the consumer has done a great job restoring his or her balance sheet. companies are flush with cash. they've done the hard work. we need our government to come together and start to solve these long-term challenges. >> do you think either romney or

obama has been courageous enough with their plan for the economy? >> i think it's too early to know. the devil's always in the details. you got to figure out who's going to do the most for the middle class. what his going to help them thrive? this country's always thrived when the middle class succeeds. that's who's struggling now. we need to get more money into people's pockets. and they'll respond. someone's got to get in the details to make sure that happens. >> it also needs i think big business leaders to take what i would call calculated gambles that would cost money in the short term that may pay, longer term, bigger dividends. the classic example is your old firm apple. apple is now the most valuable company in the history of america. what i don't like is the fact they -- ten times as many workers in china, for example, as they do in their own country. what is stopping them what --

from starbucks, capitalism, bringing back a large portion of their jobs in china, putting them back into america and taking a little wager that the american will reward them for that patriotic hit on their balance sheet by going out and buying more products? >> i think it's an interesting idea. >> could it work? everyone tells me in the business world you don't know what you're talking about. they're never going to do that. >> it's like everything. every journey begins with the first step. even if apple could find a way to move some production back to the u.s., i think americans would applaud that. >> jcpenney is a fascinating case. before i get to that, i want to go back to when you were put in charge of the apple stores. i think what you did there is very relevant. different products. same philosophy. the philosophy being you had the chance to start from scratch with apple. in many ways you're doing that with jcpenney. when you were given the task of creating the apple store, what was the philosophy?

>> when we launched the apple store, steve now for apple to win, it was going to win on innovation. innovation was the core to everything apple did from the products they created to the software it wrote to the store experience. but to really win on innovation you have to be able to connect firsthand with customers and share that with them. he knew we needed our own stores. we had to develop a retail model build around the customer. and how you have great employees who can teach people about how these products will change their life. we're doing the same thing at jcpenney now. we're moving from trying to sell stuff to people to help americans look and live better every day. that's a big mission. i can get up in the morning and figure out how the to do that. for back to school, we thought, it's great to give kids a great outfit. we want to make a great impression on that first day of school. we've given every kid in america a free haircut. >> give me an example of something if you've been going to jcpenney for years you're not going to see anymore in your jcpenney. >> perfect example.

what's the most popular product in america, it's a pair of jeans. levi. on august 1st, we rolled out a whole new way to buy a pair of jeans. we have denim bars in the style where you can look at every style. can really help u get the right fit, the right fin sglish what is the kind of product you've brought in that wasn't there before perhaps? typifies the kind of thing you want to go to. something where you thought, we need more of this kind of thing. >> a lot of those are still coming. next spring for example we're bringing in a whole new assortment for the whole area. we have michael gray who will bring his good design. jonathan adler who's really got a great wit will bring a really decorative fun products for the home. we went to england. as you know, terrence conran is kind of the father of home in england. from restaurants to products. >> and he has great stores. >> he's bringing his furniture here. and so we'll have all this great

furniture designed by terrence conran. these are new ideas for people. that's what they're looking for. >> all your staff will be using -- drum roll -- ipods. >> ipads. >> ipods. >> ipads or ipods. >> well, ipads and ipods. ultimately, it creates a better job. today, we have people stuck behind a cash wrap. which is really old. nobody pays cash. we're going to get them away from there because we're going to give them an ipod. they can be out helping someone look and live better in the departments. they can become experts at the products we carry. that's going to allow us to pay them better. technology to change their job, improve our customer service and create a better experience for the employee. all these littl things add up. >> ron, thank you so much for

coming in. >> my pleasure. >> next, cute couple dax shepherd and kristen bell. their lives on and off screen. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities. to find you a great deal, even if it's not with us. [ ding ] oh, that's helpful! well, our company does that, too. actually, we invented that.

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making a show biz relationship work isn't always easy. unless of course you're dax shepard and kristen bell. the power couple has shown -- let's just cut to the quick here. you two are still together. >> no, more superlatives. >> i was running out of stuff to say about you. you've been together five years. you work in hollywood. you're both actors. clearly extremely -- >> narcissistic. self-involved. >> you're holding hands as if you're still in love with each other. >> uh-huh. >> we're very good actors. >> i'm gay and she's a lesbian. that should go without saying. >> clearly. >> let's start with that little tidbit. >> this heat of love and lust for each other. it's quite touching. >> we just got lucky. >> we are just love addicted for one another and we're going to roll with it.

>> co-dependency, if you can find someone as co-dependent on you, game on. >> how many failures did you have to go through first? >> you had hundreds and hundreds. as i recall. >> thousands even. >> like a meeting of the u.n. too. just every type of person you could imagine. >> i went through everyone. i really wanted to play the game. >> you sure did. you played it well. some would say you played it out, that game. you broke it. >> you're starring in a movie together. i find even more extraordinary. having just appeared in my own movie, "campaign," i have one line, i deliver it really well. >> no doubt. >> shenanigans around a movie. tell me about this movie. >> for us, it made it a lot easier because this is a movie we made by ourselves. >> it's called "hit and run." >> it's called "hit and run." i play a guy in witness protection who's head over heels in love with kristen's character. i decide to leave witness protection to take her to l.a.

and all hell breaks loose. tom arnold, he's on our tail. >> all our friends basically. why we got through it is because dax wrote it. we starred it in together. we had no studio involved. >> it was our cars. my mom did craft service. my little sister has a role. every one of our friends -- >> it was dax's vision. >> then you have complete control over it. >> that's what it was. there was no sacrifice. make that broader or th-- it's everything dax think's funny. >> there are including love scenes between the pair of you. >> yes. >> -- to do that on camera or are you shameless exhibitionists? >> when we're not on set we're often in a park just putting it all out there. >> we really like to give it -- >> if you're in the l.a. area, you're likely to bump into us at a park. >> we think people love seeing other people french kiss so we

just go for it. >> we do feel that way. a lot of people have some weird aversion to pda. we don't have it. i was raised by a single mother. the entertainment was snuggling in bed. i carried that into my adult life. >> we're very affectionate. if we want to hold hands, we're going to hold handings. >> i can see that. >> we sometimes have sex as well, piers. >> let's take a little look at this movie. i'm already overheating here. >> charlie, it doesn't matte who violated who, okay. it could have been any number of people. it doesn't matter their race, okay. it could have been latino. it could have been persian. >> it was filipino! solve your dilemma! >> "hit and run." created by these two. you star in it. >> did all of our own stunts. 100% of our own stunts. we jumped other cars in my off-road race car. >> dax wanted to be creative and write a really, really funny movie. we wanted to hire all our

friends because we wanted to work with them. >> the film tackles this relationship of this couple who have a past. >> yes. >> and you have a bit of a past. a bit of a naughty boy, weren't you, let's be honest. >> well, yeah. i'm now sober for eight years. i didn't get sober as a hobby. it was more of a necessity. yeah, i have, you know, a very checkered past. that was -- >> drugs, bit of aggression, few things. >> you bet, right, bar fights -- >> so much aggression, the way -- >> no, i'm not a blow hard. >> but drugs for sure. >> did you know about this when you met? >> not when we first met, no. i met him and he was my prince charming. a few months in this is sort of what challenged us a little bit and created some trust iues. you know you start to find out flaws about your partner a few months in. if you're really, really drawn to them you don't know necessarily how to react to that. >> i would just be dropping stories on her as if i were in, you know -- >> and he -- so, by the way,

when i xyz. and i grew up in a very conservative household. >> catholic high school. >> as a goody goody. and i never experimented with drugs. and i don't have that past. >> in our retirement, we're both going to go. >> we're going to go hard. >> once we switch from driving a car to golf carts. all belts are off. >> yeah, yeah, the [ bleep ] will hit the fan. i want to be clear. i wresed as many -- >> you were -- >> in a very catholic upbringing. there is black and white. and people are evil or they're good. and that's just not the truth what i've learned as an adult. i sort of wanted to -- like, how could you be that person? when, really, people are fallible and they make mistakes and some people have substance abuse problems and that's a diagnosis, that's not -- >> especially in this town. it's littered with the carcasses of -- especially entertainers. they fall the wrong way, this

kind of stuff. how did you in the end get the self-determination to get yourself out of it? >> well, my only obsession that was stronger than that was working. i'm probably more addicted to that than any other thing. so i would get sober for movies and then in between those movies i would go and find myself in some dangerous situations. so i got sober for this movie i did eight years ago. luckily after that movie ended, i just -- i had some moment where i was able to go, i don't want to keep doing this. i probably won't survive another few breaks between movies. >> let's take a little break and come back and talk politics. you're both little live wires i suspect with plenty of views. >> let's put our feet in our mouth when we return. >> let's get your movie ruined before -- >> let's alienate half of america. you've been busy for a dead man.

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it's thin. i don't like when you pull my hair. >> then let go of my wrist. >> okay. >> truce. >> on three. >> 3, 2, 1. >> okay, don't grab my hair again, okay? it makes me -- >> then don't hold me down. it's my only way -- >> dax shepard and kristen bell. >> exposing a thin hair insecurity. >> it's like watching a weird home video. the cameras weren't even there. >> it's as if they were not there. >> that's what you dream of as an actor. >> you've been engaged two years now. >> yes. >> i'm told you've been waiting -- >> we're on to hot water here. >> is this true, for same sex marriage to be endorsed before you took the plunge yourselves? >> california specifically. >> are waiting, yes. we have not signed any paperwork. i wear a ring very proudly. i don't feel as though dax will love me more when he signs his name to a piece of paper that -- >> almost impossible, i would have thought. >> to love her more? yeah, it would be. >> what would it take for you to

be -- >> for california to get its head out of its [ bleep ]. >> well, i would have phrased it differently. >> that's the truth --its. [ bleep ] >> i would have phrased it differently. >> we believe that if anyone wants to love and commit to another person they should have the right to do it. >> let's turn to the election in november. >> yes. >> are you on the same page, you too? are you both i'm guessing obama supporters. >> yeah we're liberals. >> what would a romney presidency do. >> just fear. >> you know, if a guy who ran bain capital in the fashion that he did, if that guy is fixing our economy, it doesn't sound like a great proposition to me considering many of these companies he ran up a slew of debt and cashed out.

>> i also don't want someone in office who thinks paying at least 13% in taxes is a lot. >> call me naive when he said i've paid at least 13%, i'm like i've been paying 50%. >> proudly. because i do, i'm sorry i do believe that if you make more money you should pay higher taxes. i have no problem saying that. >> what do you think of america right now? >> in what respect? >> in any respect you like. >> i read in "vanity fair" how putin dealt with some of his adversaries in russia, we're still an amazing country and we have rights that most people could only envy. so it's a wonderful place. are we not flawed like any human being is flawed, there's always room for improvement. i think there are other countries that do things slightly better than us and when

a country demonstrates they can do something better we should look at that and model after that. it shouldn't be something to feared. >> did you think i was going to be this smart, be honest? >> i didn't. i heard disturbing reports to the contrary. >> yes. they're per vasive. >> i wish america wasn't so polarized. it scarce me the por larization i see on a daily basis on the internet. i wish ta optimism would seep into people's minds a little bit more. they call it optimism but it's really just out of fear and it's really to defeat someone else. >> i think it's false optimism based on the very harsh time people have had in the last few years but america collectively needs to get its confidence back. my problem with both the political parties at the moment is they're so busy tearing into each other, the overall impression of this is everything has gone to hell in a --

>> america is not an enemy of america and that's what no one is talking about. it's everybody is fighting all the time. >> to quote a tweet by tom arnold, i think he nailed it the best. 5% of the right is insane and 5% of the right is insane and their voices are so loud we think that's how they feel. 90% of americans agree on 90% of this stuff. it's just those loud members of congress who are screaming from the top of the roofs that make it feel this way. i talk to people everywhere and it's not that polarized. >> well said. >> thank you. >> tom arnold really said it. >> "hit and run" is out now. a cracking romp it is as well. nice to meet you both. >> thank you, piers. >> we'll be right back.

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